>kills the joker >comes back even worse because you live in a world were resurrection is a thing
At least if you arrest him you know were he is and when he escapes.
Because Batman's zoomer fans are all edgelords that identify with the Joker more than Batman when they watch his movies and cartoons (notice how I didn't say read his comics)
Movie and cartoon Jokers are most of the ones it's reasonable to not kill though, because they usually either stay in jail or don't have a ridiculous body count
Well what people don't articulate is that Batman is very powerful. He's rich, he collaborates with the police, and most importantly he has declared himself the boss of every vigilante operating in Gotham City. Huntress isn't allowed to operate without his say-so, Catwoman can't do her thing without his meddling, Red Hood gets the crap beaten out of him unless he toes the line.
People assign responsibility to Batman because he has explicitly assumed that responsibility. He isn't just some friendly neighborhood volunteer. Every single famous Batman story is about a king claiming his kingdom and commanding his knights.
>Shitloads of super heroes don't kill, wby people just give shit to Batman doing that?
In most stories the hero ardently refusing to kill the villain works because in most stories when you stick someone in jail, they fucking stay there. For the most part, it's as good as killing them in terms of preventing harm to innocents and to society.
Arkham Asylum and the Blackgate Penitentiary (I looked it up!) might as well install a revolving door. Batman doesn't see a problem with his methods or the world around him when the crooks he keeps nabbing are literally back on the street in the next issue, and everyone knows damn well it's because the last time someone suggested killing the joker off, Bob from Marketing had a fucking heart attack.
>In most stories the hero ardently refusing to kill the villain works because in most stories when you stick someone in jail, they fucking stay there.
No they don't.
Either way, you simply can't kill Joker or The Green Goblin because it's the equivalent of killing Batman and Spider-Man.
Remove Batman from that page entirely, and I guarantee you the Joker would still find a way to escape.
Because over the years writer's and editors need to "increase the stakes" which means for something like Batman it invovles turning Joker from a mobster to a death God that has genocided hundreds of thousands.
Like back in 1988 Joker killing Robin and potentially Barbara was considered low enough for Batman to genuinely considering killing the guy.
Nowadays that's laugable.
cause in batman it's like a huge narrative sticking point where he's this moral crusader against killing all the time but it's stupid and nonsensical because literally ANY society no matter how pacifist would go "nah this can't fly" and ice the joker if he escaped and performed mass murder more than twice.
Why does it seem like Batman was completed stoned when he said that? "Like dude, if you kill a killer, dude the number is killers, whoa...it's like the same."
Can't shoot him because Batman will take the bullet for him and then the Joker will kill your family by using his Joker reflexes to avoid any additional bullets that get past Bats.
Can't let him live because only a retard would let him live.
Best option is to fire a warning shot in hopes that neighbor reports get the cops to my door sooner, monologue to Batman about how he's responsible for every kill the Joker has made (which should make him broody enough to keep him from incapacitating me), and hope I can keep things in a deadlock until the cops arrive. As long as this is one of those points in time where Batman has to be flighty around the authorities, this might buy me a chance to shoot the Joker while the cops are handcuffing him after Batman runs away. If he's buddies with the cops at the time, there's not much I can do because now he's lingering around while the cops escort the Joker to safety, so the best you can mange is to get the Joker's attention and give him some parting words, something really pithy to tie the evening up in a bow so he doesn't feel like there's unfinished business.
Look him dead in the eye and say "Bats off to ya," and tip an invisible hat.
I support the no kill rule because it makes for interesting stories however I hate every explanation DC tries to give it as it always makes it more retarded then it needs to be.
This might seem shocking to people younger than 18, but characters aren't always meant to be factually correct or morally right, sometimes they have character traits
A hero having a 'no kill' rule can potentially make things exciting, or explain things in canon, or just characterize him and show us his personality
Whether you relate to it or not is another thing
i prefer batman not to kill because he thinks every life is worth saving and anyone can be redeemed. enough of his villains have had heroic phases that he thinks he's doing the right thing, but joker is the one that constantly puts his faith in it to the test
The idea of just boinking people in a head with a boomerang and cleanly knocking them out is pure fantasy.
Normally it wouldn't be justified to kill already subdued prisoners, but when you live in a failed state that just releases everyone back on the streets, some lynching might be necessary.
I firmly believe it's the writers' fault. They made a no killing rule, when the villains at the time weren't that bad, but when the writers were being forced to up the stakes by having the Joker nuke cities and shoot babies in the face for fun, Batman's no killing rule became nonsensical.
I think people nowadays questioning and criticizing Batman's no-kill rule says alot more about our zeitgeist and society than it being about Batman as a character.
You see, the reason and point of Batman's no-kill rule (if we ignore the real life reasons DC didn't depict heroes killing) is that back then there was a belief that society was functioning. That what sets us apart as a modern society compared to our prehistoric selves is that we have a court system, hospitals, law and order and other institutions.
In such a setting, Batman's no-kill rule makes perfect sense. A person is innocent until proven guilty; neither yoi or me can decide that. And if guilty they get locked up and keep law-abiding citizens safe. Batman, Superman and any other super hero would be a nihilistic misanthrope if they put themselves above what man has accomplished.
So with that said, why are we incessantly questioning the no-kill rule and calling it retarded? Because all instutions in society has failed over and over again. People don't have the same trust anymore. So in our modern society it makes sense to have the barbaric approach: why doesn't Batman kill? That solves the problem because law, order, truth and justive won't solve it. Batman needa to kill to solve modern crime. We need to stoop down to prehistoric way of justice: which violence is superior, yours or mine? Which club is bigger? Shouldn't we have an eye for an eye?
Questioning Batman, Superman etc no-kill really is incredibly sad because it adresses the sad state of our society. No basic trust in government and instution. No basic compassion and belief in thy neighbor. No belief that criminals can become better. No optimism that we'll progress towards an utopia. A super hero who kills gets cheered on, is seen as a symbol of justice, that makes a difference and is a role model.
This all falls flat because Batman already puts himself above laws regularly, as well as the morals of others, across the vast majority of continuities. Sometimes that fucker literally has a jail cell in the Batcave, "Batman has secret plans to beat the short out of/incapacitate his friends" is a popular plot point.
Your argument is weak because most depictions of Batman do literally everything legally and morally questionable BUT kill.
The main issue is that as the Comic's code died the Joker slowly evolved from a criminal into a slasher movie monster and Batman's devolved from a Detetive into a glorified super wasteful warden
The stories used to go: >Joker does a crime, maybe even kill w guy or two. But Batman manages to figure out the situation and frustrate his plans in the end with his wits and the Joker gets mad and goes to jail
Now they go: >The joker kills hundreds, like... 500 innocent people! He piles the bodies in front of the local orphanage into a tower and then blows up the tower killing all the kids in the orphanage! Batman gets beaten up but manages to use his new super tech gun that costs the same as a three new hospitals and manages to save... One single kids. Joker laughs and says that this is what he aways wanted anyway, mocks Batman for not killing him and then goes to Arkham
Of course the Joker became a movie monster. Evil Clown is now the default instead of a subversion of clowns being wacky and fun. Even coomers fapping to clowngirls might as well just be an extension of the monstergirl trend.
I'm pretty sure institutions that incarcerate criminals were never designed to rehabilitate them despite how they were advertised to the public. They never worked from the start.
>court system and modern policing >hospitals
Kind of odd to combine these two groups under the same umbrella, tbh. >A person is innocent until proven guilty
And you do realize that attempting to forcibly evade arrest, especially when lethal means are used to do so, warrants the use of lethal force to stop the suspect, don't you? Or are you one of those types that whines when someone rushing at police with a knife gets poked full of holes?
>"I totally said the 'if you kill a killer' quote Damian. I said this to Babs right after she bought her first wheel chair"
-Batman (Issue 35 pg 12. Not that issue 35 your thinking of.)
What was Batman's original reasoning for not killing anyway? Was it because his parents died? I get if he doesn't want to kill a goon that's probably only doing crimes to raise money for his sick daughter's cancer treatment or maybe even Mr. Freeze. But characters like the Joker that just keeps escaping jail should've probably been killed to avoid future innocent people from being killed by him.
Which comic or adaptation was it where Batman said he doesn't kill because he's afraid he wouldn't be able to stop himself if if the crossed that line?
Reminds me of that HISHE video about one of the Batman movies where Joker was trying to get Batman to run him over. Batman ran him over but didn't kill the Joker. He got sent to the hospital in a full body cast.
killing is like a kaioken. killing two persons just makes you a killer x2
Shitloads of super heroes don't kill, wby people just give shit to Batman doing that?
Joker
Jo-ACK
>kills the joker
>comes back even worse because you live in a world were resurrection is a thing
At least if you arrest him you know were he is and when he escapes.
Joker
Joker
Because Batman's zoomer fans are all edgelords that identify with the Joker more than Batman when they watch his movies and cartoons (notice how I didn't say read his comics)
There's also a ton of whiny bitches who identify with Jason's daddy issues.
Movie and cartoon Jokers are most of the ones it's reasonable to not kill though, because they usually either stay in jail or don't have a ridiculous body count
Because it's bait. He never even said the quote in the OP.
Yeah, I'm fairly sure that quote is from the Dare Devil netflix show
Because him not killing, and arguably making things worse that way, is a plot point in some of his media.
Well what people don't articulate is that Batman is very powerful. He's rich, he collaborates with the police, and most importantly he has declared himself the boss of every vigilante operating in Gotham City. Huntress isn't allowed to operate without his say-so, Catwoman can't do her thing without his meddling, Red Hood gets the crap beaten out of him unless he toes the line.
People assign responsibility to Batman because he has explicitly assumed that responsibility. He isn't just some friendly neighborhood volunteer. Every single famous Batman story is about a king claiming his kingdom and commanding his knights.
>Shitloads of super heroes don't kill, wby people just give shit to Batman doing that?
In most stories the hero ardently refusing to kill the villain works because in most stories when you stick someone in jail, they fucking stay there. For the most part, it's as good as killing them in terms of preventing harm to innocents and to society.
Arkham Asylum and the Blackgate Penitentiary (I looked it up!) might as well install a revolving door. Batman doesn't see a problem with his methods or the world around him when the crooks he keeps nabbing are literally back on the street in the next issue, and everyone knows damn well it's because the last time someone suggested killing the joker off, Bob from Marketing had a fucking heart attack.
>In most stories the hero ardently refusing to kill the villain works because in most stories when you stick someone in jail, they fucking stay there.
No they don't.
Either way, you simply can't kill Joker or The Green Goblin because it's the equivalent of killing Batman and Spider-Man.
Remove Batman from that page entirely, and I guarantee you the Joker would still find a way to escape.
Joker
>wby people just give shit to Batman
Because people only give a shit about Batman.
> Batman don't have a counterpoint
DC really shat the bed with that one.
Joker
Because Batman and his fanbase are the ones who keep pushing the "heroes don't kill" meme.
Because over the years writer's and editors need to "increase the stakes" which means for something like Batman it invovles turning Joker from a mobster to a death God that has genocided hundreds of thousands.
Like back in 1988 Joker killing Robin and potentially Barbara was considered low enough for Batman to genuinely considering killing the guy.
Nowadays that's laugable.
cause in batman it's like a huge narrative sticking point where he's this moral crusader against killing all the time but it's stupid and nonsensical because literally ANY society no matter how pacifist would go "nah this can't fly" and ice the joker if he escaped and performed mass murder more than twice.
Joker
Why does it seem like Batman was completed stoned when he said that? "Like dude, if you kill a killer, dude the number is killers, whoa...it's like the same."
Batman never said that, it's just a meme someone made up on the internet and attached Batman's face to
I always thought it was bad enough that some shitter like Tom King could have written it.
Woah dude that's deep, somebody should write a deconstruction of Batman where he kills his villains. That would be fresh and new my guy.
What would you do in his shoes?
Can't shoot him because Batman will take the bullet for him and then the Joker will kill your family by using his Joker reflexes to avoid any additional bullets that get past Bats.
Can't let him live because only a retard would let him live.
Best option is to fire a warning shot in hopes that neighbor reports get the cops to my door sooner, monologue to Batman about how he's responsible for every kill the Joker has made (which should make him broody enough to keep him from incapacitating me), and hope I can keep things in a deadlock until the cops arrive. As long as this is one of those points in time where Batman has to be flighty around the authorities, this might buy me a chance to shoot the Joker while the cops are handcuffing him after Batman runs away. If he's buddies with the cops at the time, there's not much I can do because now he's lingering around while the cops escort the Joker to safety, so the best you can mange is to get the Joker's attention and give him some parting words, something really pithy to tie the evening up in a bow so he doesn't feel like there's unfinished business.
Look him dead in the eye and say "Bats off to ya," and tip an invisible hat.
I'd do what Amos from the Expanse would do.
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I support the no kill rule because it makes for interesting stories however I hate every explanation DC tries to give it as it always makes it more retarded then it needs to be.
This might seem shocking to people younger than 18, but characters aren't always meant to be factually correct or morally right, sometimes they have character traits
A hero having a 'no kill' rule can potentially make things exciting, or explain things in canon, or just characterize him and show us his personality
Whether you relate to it or not is another thing
i prefer batman not to kill because he thinks every life is worth saving and anyone can be redeemed. enough of his villains have had heroic phases that he thinks he's doing the right thing, but joker is the one that constantly puts his faith in it to the test
Red Hood is a support character for Batman. He exists to show up, counterpoint and get beaten up like the bitch he is.
The idea of just boinking people in a head with a boomerang and cleanly knocking them out is pure fantasy.
Normally it wouldn't be justified to kill already subdued prisoners, but when you live in a failed state that just releases everyone back on the streets, some lynching might be necessary.
Batman is a vigilante. Killing villains should not be his responsibility.
> the responsability of someone who act like he is above the law
Vigilantes are criminals.
I firmly believe it's the writers' fault. They made a no killing rule, when the villains at the time weren't that bad, but when the writers were being forced to up the stakes by having the Joker nuke cities and shoot babies in the face for fun, Batman's no killing rule became nonsensical.
I think people nowadays questioning and criticizing Batman's no-kill rule says alot more about our zeitgeist and society than it being about Batman as a character.
You see, the reason and point of Batman's no-kill rule (if we ignore the real life reasons DC didn't depict heroes killing) is that back then there was a belief that society was functioning. That what sets us apart as a modern society compared to our prehistoric selves is that we have a court system, hospitals, law and order and other institutions.
In such a setting, Batman's no-kill rule makes perfect sense. A person is innocent until proven guilty; neither yoi or me can decide that. And if guilty they get locked up and keep law-abiding citizens safe. Batman, Superman and any other super hero would be a nihilistic misanthrope if they put themselves above what man has accomplished.
So with that said, why are we incessantly questioning the no-kill rule and calling it retarded? Because all instutions in society has failed over and over again. People don't have the same trust anymore. So in our modern society it makes sense to have the barbaric approach: why doesn't Batman kill? That solves the problem because law, order, truth and justive won't solve it. Batman needa to kill to solve modern crime. We need to stoop down to prehistoric way of justice: which violence is superior, yours or mine? Which club is bigger? Shouldn't we have an eye for an eye?
Questioning Batman, Superman etc no-kill really is incredibly sad because it adresses the sad state of our society. No basic trust in government and instution. No basic compassion and belief in thy neighbor. No belief that criminals can become better. No optimism that we'll progress towards an utopia. A super hero who kills gets cheered on, is seen as a symbol of justice, that makes a difference and is a role model.
This all falls flat because Batman already puts himself above laws regularly, as well as the morals of others, across the vast majority of continuities. Sometimes that fucker literally has a jail cell in the Batcave, "Batman has secret plans to beat the short out of/incapacitate his friends" is a popular plot point.
Your argument is weak because most depictions of Batman do literally everything legally and morally questionable BUT kill.
The main issue is that as the Comic's code died the Joker slowly evolved from a criminal into a slasher movie monster and Batman's devolved from a Detetive into a glorified super wasteful warden
The stories used to go:
>Joker does a crime, maybe even kill w guy or two. But Batman manages to figure out the situation and frustrate his plans in the end with his wits and the Joker gets mad and goes to jail
Now they go:
>The joker kills hundreds, like... 500 innocent people! He piles the bodies in front of the local orphanage into a tower and then blows up the tower killing all the kids in the orphanage! Batman gets beaten up but manages to use his new super tech gun that costs the same as a three new hospitals and manages to save... One single kids. Joker laughs and says that this is what he aways wanted anyway, mocks Batman for not killing him and then goes to Arkham
Of course the Joker became a movie monster. Evil Clown is now the default instead of a subversion of clowns being wacky and fun. Even coomers fapping to clowngirls might as well just be an extension of the monstergirl trend.
This nigga trust the government...
I'm pretty sure institutions that incarcerate criminals were never designed to rehabilitate them despite how they were advertised to the public. They never worked from the start.
>court system and modern policing
>hospitals
Kind of odd to combine these two groups under the same umbrella, tbh.
>A person is innocent until proven guilty
And you do realize that attempting to forcibly evade arrest, especially when lethal means are used to do so, warrants the use of lethal force to stop the suspect, don't you? Or are you one of those types that whines when someone rushing at police with a knife gets poked full of holes?
BATMAN NEVER SAID THAT FUCKING QUOTE
>"I totally said the 'if you kill a killer' quote Damian. I said this to Babs right after she bought her first wheel chair"
-Batman (Issue 35 pg 12. Not that issue 35 your thinking of.)
What was Batman's original reasoning for not killing anyway? Was it because his parents died? I get if he doesn't want to kill a goon that's probably only doing crimes to raise money for his sick daughter's cancer treatment or maybe even Mr. Freeze. But characters like the Joker that just keeps escaping jail should've probably been killed to avoid future innocent people from being killed by him.
Which comic or adaptation was it where Batman said he doesn't kill because he's afraid he wouldn't be able to stop himself if if the crossed that line?
Reminds me of that HISHE video about one of the Batman movies where Joker was trying to get Batman to run him over. Batman ran him over but didn't kill the Joker. He got sent to the hospital in a full body cast.