I know its a movie, but, in theory, if we learned the language of an advanced alien like in the movie who perceives time different than us,
Would we actually be able to see the future?
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Ignoring a lot of likely impossibilities about the whole thing, given the way most people learn languages as adults, you'd probably have to alter perceptions of time to learn the language.
so the language is impossible to learn
As impossible as anything else that doesn't actually exist.
>Ignoring a lot of likely impossibilities about the whole thing
>a lot means all
I guess you're already non linear
well, go ahead. spell out the impossibilities you don't want to ignore in bullet point format.
I can't fit the entire script into a post. There's character limits. Maybe I'll just queef a black circle at you in 29 years and expect you to understand it 6 weeks ago.
then shut the frick up
But I've already shut up. In the future.
i'll just go ahead and ignore that impossibility
You already did. Keep up.
Any argument about nonsense always ends up this way. There are no winners in the discussion of black alien time sperm
I mean, Archimedes figured out how to get water out of the ground...
And about the same time, someone figured out how to measure the size of the Earth with shadows.
>Would we actually be able to see the future?
yep. Learning octopus sign language makes you have prophetic visualizations of 20 years in the future
>octopus sign language
thats an understatement
It didn't make her see the future it made her schizophrenic so she couldn't tell the difference between the future and past.
That probably would've made a better movie. But it also would've been a bit of a 12 Monkeys rip.
This movie was dumb as hell and I'm tired of everyone pretending it was good
i fricking lost it at that scene with forest whitaker and amy adams
*plays the tape*
>hghghghhgh ghghhghghghg ghghhghghg
>can you translate this? Hear any words, phrases?
>i can't translate like that, i would have to be there
>you didn't need to for farsi
>because i know farsi
L M A O
i dare people to find dumbest scene in movies ever.
I assumed that scene was in there because moronic audiences who watched too much Star Trek think you can translate a language from a few lines of spoken dialogue.
you can tho
No, you can’t.
Not with a novel language without any reference points.
The universal translator is magic for the sake of the plot.
>The universal translator is magic for the sake of the plot.
yes and no. IIRC in star trek it was scanning the brainwaves and deriving meaning out of that and translating this into words.
You can’t scan brainwaves like that with our level of technology so my main point stands.
Not really. Think about how if they've been around long enough they might be using the same "language" but little variations based on region, assuming different planets are also involved or other land masses, and you've got one language with hundreds of thousands of variables.
>you've got one language with hundreds of thousands of variables.
You're discovering linguistics, pretty good for a shaved monkey
I don't even understand what the frick you're saying to me right now, moron. I'm not the shaved monkey you think you're talking to.
Do you think all languages on Earth developed separately? What is italian if not latin transformed? You're just getting awed with possible scale, but it's not a crazy concept.
>just getting awed
No, I'm explaining how it wouldn't be so easy to take a few words and magically translate it into a fricking language used by intergalactic space-farers. How the frick are you missing this? Also, factor in their method of communication developing different and their grammar being unintuitive, the movie illustrates pretty well what I'd expect first contact communication to be like.
Once again, I'M NOT THE SHAVED MONKEY YOU THINK YOU ARE TALKING TO.
I just saw your post specifically, didn't follow the chain, but now that I did we already have almost real time speech to speech translation of even unrelated languages, so your "one language" doesn't even apply as a disapproval to Star Trek's super duper computers.
there are no good excuses for putting moronic scenes in movies
If you don't think a military employee would act this way then you overestimate the common sense of the military and its employees.
>If you don't think a military employee would act this way
yes, i don't think military employee would act dumber than 60IQ mongoloid with brain damage
Then you must not know anyone in the military.
you guys realize the military actually screens for intelligence?
Yes. Too much gets you set to Lockheed instead.
>yes, i don't think military employee would act dumber than 60IQ mongoloid with brain damage
>yes, i don't think military employee would act dumber than 60IQ mongoloid with brain damage
One of the reasons the military industrial complex can convince so many people to stick it out for 20 years is because it really is the best they can do for themselves. Talk to any Soldier and ask them if they've ever been forced to do really stupid shit. That stupid shit tends to come from the top. It's a bunch of dumbasses all the way down. Of course you get a few exceptional people here and there but they are just that, the exception.
oh sweetie
>forest whitaker
his character was terrible and dumb
they needed someone who will rush the characters, creating tension, ticking clock etc but they kinda forgot those threats he's posing must make sense, otherwise there will be no tension and he can be brushed off with an anecdote about a kangaroo after he acted like a moron once again. It was a pointless character.
>dumbest scene
It is not dumb, it is s general who has no idea or experience in translations speaking to an experienced translator about a situation/language nobody can comprehend
I think that scene is well fricking done.
the general is thinking like a military perspective of economically getting things done but he is out of his depth.
>we should use math to establish a common frame of reference
>what are you moronic we can't use something they almost certainly understand to try to communicate with them we should just talk to them like people
Would a species that could see the future need math?
>we should use math to establish a common frame of reference
Why do people assume that our math would be exactly the same as an alien culture's math? Who's to say it's not completely different at a fundamental level and that's what enables all their technology? How do you even communicate in math in the first place? Everyone who says "muh just use math" is not thinking it through, they're just science worshipers who heard someone else say that before.
>completely different at a fundamental level
what does that mean? can you somehow do math without numbers? what exactly are you picturing
half is post is moronic. but the other half is a fair question.
All of math is based on a lot of assumed axioms that we have to use in order to make math work. What happens if the aliens use different axioms that allow them to do math in ways we can't comprehend but which will still produce correct answers we don't understand, resulting in their equations and theorems looking completely unrecognizable to us and ours to them?
As a very simplified example, what if 1 = 2 is actually possible and their math incorporates that while our math considers such a thing impossible?
>As a very simplified example, what if 1 = 2
Well in that case, they'd need to consult an expert like Terrence Howard
you still gotta remember your kindergarten level math, Black person. count apples. how many apples are there? if you give your friend an apple, how many apples are left? that shit is immutable.
Okay, now how do you turn that into meaningful communication? What does it accomplish?
We assume that axiomatically because it's the only way we know how to make math work. We have no guarantee that it's the only way math could ever work.
>how do you turn that into meaningful communication?
yeah, this was one of my posts
>As a very simplified example, what if 1 = 2 is actually possible and their math incorporates that
it can't be possible and that's why math is universal language you fricking moron
>I can’t conceive of any other system that will work
>therefore it is impossible
Because it wouldn't work.
It doesn't matter how you set up your system, things like nuclear fusion and fission still work the same way.
Matter is still comprised of atoms
>Because it wouldn't work.
You can prove that every other possible system can’t explain the universe?
Also nobody show this anon Godel’s Incompleteness theorem, he’ll have an aneurysm.
Says wikipedia?
No, I literally studied physics at university you mong
>literally studied physics
This would probably be an easier discussion if you had studied meta-physics or philosophy (if any colleges teach those things anymore).
Yeah, about as worthwhile as Wikipedia.
online university of stupid with a Black person grant, i bet
HA! got 'im!
it could only "work" if 1 and 2 had different meanings in their world but then it wouldn't have been 1 and 2 so no, it can't work. They live in the same universe with the same laws of physics as we do.
well it's really easy to just say anything is possible even if it's illogical, but it makes just as much sense for me to say something dumb like
>aliens perfectly understand english, and also they look like humans
it's pointless to discuss things that are impossible, even if you assume for no particular reason that nothing is impossible
>illogical
What is logic, by the way? How do you know your logical systems are correct?
does it matter? does that excuse behaving illogically? how would you communicate with aliens if you can just dismiss any criticism that you're acting illogically with
>how do you know your logical systems are correct
might as well just lay back and wait for the aliens to start speaking english, it's not logical but nothing really is, right?
That's why I didn't give him any (you)s, you hit the nail on the head with that.
Notice that this anon had 2 direct questions addressed to him and failed to answer either. He responded with deflection.
The answer he refuses to state is that our systems, while attempting to model real behavior, are a product of our minds, and are fundamentally arbitrary and incomplete or contradictory.
that's okay, thinking questions should have answers is a totally arbitrary and contradictory product of your mind
Hoes’ status: mad
It's more like if someone insisted that all intelligent alien species must have humanoid appearance and speak English because that's how humans developed. After all, our language must be universal, right? English has effectively become the primary language of global commerce, so obviously aliens who have developed as far as we have must speak English, too, right? English is a universal language!
We think of math as this concrete, immutable thing, but we don't really have a guarantee of that. Especially since so much of our math relies on "self-evident" axioms that can't actually be proven beyond simply stating it works this way because otherwise our math breaks.
>math breaks
what does this mean? does a bridge collapse because someone utters the phrase
>one equals two
or does it somehow stay up
what do you think we even use math for
I think the best way to summarize what I'm suggesting is this: What if we're coming to correct answers for incorrect reasons?
As long as our math systems produce predictable, consistent, workable results they remain functional and useful to us, but how do we actually guarantee that our methods are the only ways to produce predictable, consistent, workable results? It's difficult to imagine how that might work because our own methods are so deeply ingrained in how we think, but I think it's a legitimate possibility that aliens could potentially have math systems incompatible with our own.
>I think it's a legitimate possibility that aliens could potentially have math systems incompatible with our own
do you actually have a reason to think this
what in your life led you to believe that 1=2 on other planets
This is literally the most moronic thing I've ever heard i my life.
Think about just 1 dimension like distance. 1km is obviously not going to translate but an alien species will see it and say that is 26 blorgons or whatever. It will always be that number. They will understand that.
This assumes the aliens perceive dimensions and distances in the same way we do.
Of course they do. They exist in it.
You really are a pretentious gay for thinking how you do. But whatever, enjoy your multiverse Rick and Morty marvel bullshit that makes you cry with joy when they pwn3d the evil Christians. (I'm an atheist btw) you people are pretentious morons and really are hopeless.
>But whatever, enjoy your multiverse Rick and Morty marvel bullshit that makes you cry with joy when they pwn3d the evil Christians.
Holy projection, Batman. If anything, it's my spiritual leanings that lead me to believe it's possible there's much more to reality than only what we happen to perceive. This isn't just about "lolsorandumb infinite universes" or whatever, it's about human hubris in assuming our methods and perceptions must be universal for all other creatures.
>it's about human hubris in assuming our methods and perceptions must be universal for all other creatures.
The things that humans believe a mere 2 centuries ago seem quaint and naive to us now.
Now apply that to a species perhaps millions of years more advanced than us with a potentially totally different way of seeing the universe.
>The things that humans believe a mere 2 centuries ago seem quaint and naive to us now.
if you're really full of yourself maybe
what things were you thinking of exactly
>what things were you thinking of exactly
From a scientific perspective:
>spontaneous generation
>bodily humors
>aether
>aether
This is my favorite. This was literally "settled science" at one point.
what's wrong with any of that given the knowledge of the time
is there anything that's actually fundamentally different or is it just physical and biological facts
>is there anything that's actually fundamentally different
I’d say aether vs how light actually behaves (we think) is pretty fundamental.
> former two only changed names and expanded to more descriptive fields
No, humors and aether are just plain wrong and describe nothing real.
>but I get your point. don't understand what you mean by spontaneous generation, perpetuum mobile?
They used to believe that life spontaneously generated from piles of refuse, like bugs and mice.
>No, humors and aether are just plain wrong and describe nothing real.
nah, they had an idea but nothing concrete to base it on. for one now we know even gut bacteria influence your humors, not to mention all the shit going into psycho meds. other was a shot in the dark but did influence looking into atoms and now even smaller stuff so it wasn't useless. now we believe there are particles that influence gravity instead of it "just" being a cosmic pull. progress grown out of simpler ideas.
>aether was a shot in the dark
Heh.
i just hope you got the joke
>now we know even gut bacteria influence your humors
Good bye.
should have put parentheses on that, but your disagreement just fuels the thought and that's a good thing.
>I’d say aether vs how light actually behaves (we think) is pretty fundamental.
what does it change? would anything be different if we decided now that actually there is an aether that light travels through?
Your GPS wouldn’t work.
well i'm pretty sure the gps isn't held up by faith but why do you think it wouldn't work
>why do you think it wouldn't work
Because the GPS software on your phone has to apply relativistic corrections.
In a world with aether where light actually moves at different speeds depending on where the earth is at in its orbit you would get completely wrong results.
>In a world with aether
Should say
in a
>world where people believe in aether
>light actually moves at different speeds depending on where the earth is at in its orbit
i've never heard of anyone suggesting that the aether implies that the speed of light must not be constant, in fact i'm pretty sure most people assumed it was
You misunderstand either aether theory or relativity.
In relativity, if I am traveling close to C, I will still measure all light particles as traveling at C relative to myself, even though a stationary observer would measure myself and a light particle as having similar speeds.
In aether theory light travels at a set speed but you can “catch up” to particles by traveling at sufficient speed.
The great speed of the earth is the reason why Michaelson and Morley were able to disprove aether theory.
i still don't see the implication, but to go back to what i said earlier, this really doesn't seem fundamental, maybe gps wouldn't work so well, but that's a fairly new technology, and it doesn't mean we can't do arithmetic or anything like that
If relativity is true but you believe in aether your GPS calculations won’t be true.
How could it be if you think that light move at different speeds in different directions?
GPS satellites require insane levels of precision to function.
okay but that's beside the point, gps satellites or no, you can still do stuff like reliably count the number of them, that process hasn't changed
former two only changed names and expanded to more descriptive fields, but I get your point. don't understand what you mean by spontaneous generation, perpetuum mobile?
*latter, frick
nta. iirc, it's basically the inverse of spontaneous combustion. IE shit just shows up sometimes.
When people used to think flies and shit were born from dirt or so I remember from my high school classes
Hysterectomies were used to treat hysteria as recently as the early 1900s. That's a fun little piece of medical history to look into. You see, women were thought to sometimes have wandering wombs that would become displaced from their proper position in the body and cause physical abnormalities that led to women acting hysterical. In extreme instances of hysteria, removing the uterus was seen as an appropriate treatment.
i guess it'd be obnoxious of me to point out that hysterectomies are still performed
Not to treat wandering womb and hysteria, silly goose.
Yes, exactly.
Yeah thinking there are only 2 genders was fricking wack fr.
This is just gibberish.
What's far more reasonable to assume is that we meet aliens (and they don't just glass us because lol it's a fricking movie not reality), and they just don't comprehend math. You talk to them and it's like talking to a fricking wall, because what you're actually communicating with are biological terraformers who have no need to think of anything more abstract than "is there something in my way? If yes, eat it", with an intellect on the level of an ant and no understanding of how their ships work, just a directive to produce more of them and spread.
You're arguing that everything won't map 1:1, which is meaningless. If you can explain that you use base 10, any concept can be formulated to fit that system.
>This is just gibberish.
Have you ever had to teach someone something, and they adopt some faulty logic that still leads them to the correct answers? At some point their faulty logic will frick them up, but there will be a level at which it will work, maybe even consistently, but they'll reach a point where it will stop working.
What if our math is like that? What if we're getting the right answers for the wrong reasons but haven't reached the level where it's apparent that it falls apart? And what if the aliens never utilized our faulty logic, or long since corrected it and changed their entire system?
Those kinds of people just get lucky once or twice. It's very different to a basic system of 1+1=2, you don't fluke that many correct answers unless the system is based on a logical underpinning that works. Look at shit like common core, it's moronic but it gives you the right answers out at the end.
common core would be alright to teach aliens how we reached our math
>Why do people assume that our math would be exactly the same as an alien culture's math?
are you moronic?
Draw a triangle, and label the sides with 3,4,5 dots. Anybody with any understanding of math will know you are describing Pythagoras' theorem, or whatever they call it.
Do the same with Uranium decay whilst drawing an atom, any physicist would understand it.
It doesn't matter what your frames of reference are, atoms still exist, and mathematical theorems still work
>Draw a triangle, and label the sides with 3,4,5 dots. Anybody with any understanding of math will know you are describing Pythagoras' theorem, or whatever they call it
This is heavily dependent on a species using hashes or marks to count with. We have no idea if an alien race would do that.
Also what if they start counting at 0 indecies?
If they're smart enough to travel between solar systems then they are smart enough to figure out we use a base 10 numerical system from our physics and mathematical examples we show them
>If they're smart enough
Nice dodge there. You came dangerously close to having to address my point about fundamental assumptions.
Again, why would a species that can see the future even need math?
>Also what if they start counting at 0 indecies?
if you were able to think of this then why wouldn't aliens be able to
Or you're referencing Greek cults. One of the two.
Triangles sure but textbook illustrations of atoms and electrons aren’t actually what they look like kek
urghhh people like you should be culled.
Mathematics is a universal language.
just because to you this symbol means three 3, and to an AYY this symbol means 3 ..., it does not mean both cannot understand the concept of three
>Mathematics is a universal language.
that is where youre wrong kid
sure thing boy
Where is your counter argument
Hydrogen atoms have 1 proton, this isn't something we made up.
Point at the sun, show 2 hydrogen atoms combining in nuclear fusion. They will understand this, and that 1 is our symbol for the number of Protons in a Hydrogen atom
>Again, why would a species that can see the future even need math?
Because they still need to travel between solar systems in a spaceship which runs on scientific theories
>Because they still need to travel between solar systems in a spaceship which runs on scientific theories
If you are piloting a rocket and can see the future you don’t need to know the rocket equation or orbital mechanics to get anywhere at all.
You can build a nuclear reactor without understanding atomic fission, you don’t have to, you see the future and adjust your plans until you get the future you want.
Assuming astronauts have the same knowledge as rocket scientists. They probably sent their dumbest soldiers to conquer earth but they decided to have tea and crumpets and a chitchat instead.
We didn't send morons to the moon, we don't send morons to the ISS. Would you trust a knuckledragger with a tesla coil? If they can travel between fricking solar systems they can filter out idiots.
Post conversations you've had with aliens in math plox
>Mathematics is a universal language.
How do we know this for sure? What if (1 != 1) in their math and they found a way to make that work?
>Hydrogen atoms have 1 proton, this isn't something we made up.
That's our perception of how hydrogen atoms are constructed, yes. How do we guarantee that the aliens perceive and count atomic structures in the same way?
Math isn't even universal amongst humans.
different number bases for example not everyone uses base 10.
Quintessential Cinemaphile poster
It's trivial for any species that has mastered interstellar travel to understand we use base 10, even if they use base 12, base 2, or base 40.
You literally just write out some fricking numbers. There's no magic supermath where 2x2 doesn't equal 4.
Dumbest post i've seen in a while
To be fair a lot of stupid people actually think that's how linguists work.
>I am dumb as hell and I'm tired of everyone pretending I am not
FTFY
I hated it. Amy Adams is so annoying.
imagine being a brainlet and openly calling attention to that fact
They can’t help it.
its a shit lesbian-core movie that midwits enjoy because it makes them feel enlightened
You’re right, I’d rather be watching the latest Dr Strange
Different languages do change our thought patterns and consequently the way we look at reality, but no, you're not going to defy the laws of time and space just because you can say penis in alienspeak.
>you're not going to defy the laws of time and space
Seeing the future is not defying the laws of time and space, it just has some strange implications if it is possible.
>Seeing the future is not defying the laws of time and space
>t. Physics-let
He's right, there's nothing we can say for sure that makes it impossible for time to be seen non-linearly.
We already know we can interact with time at different speeds when we go fast enough
>there's nothing we can say for sure that makes it impossible for God to exist
Black person i'm not wasting my time arguing 2012 christgay vs dawkins shit. If you want to believe in a God good for you
enjoy your time-travelling aliens, homosexual
How could time not be linear? Time dilation doesn't change that.
youre looking at the past when you stargaze anon
yeah, i look at the past when i watch home movies of my c**t ex-wife reading her vows to me too.
WOWIE! REALLY? I HECKING LOVE SCIENCE!
Yeah no shit, you're looking in the past when you watch the cum dribble out of your fat clenched fist, it's happening in the past from your point of view
We are talking about looking into the future
When you talk about "seeing into the future" (whatever that means to you) there are only two physically valid possibilities:
1) It's possible because the universe is indeed deterministic, you have no free will, and all you've accomplished is driving yourself mad by knowing with certainty what will happen yet being powerless to stop it
2) The universe isn't deterministic and you violate causality by peering into the future - e.g. it's straight up not possible. Causes do not precede their effects.
Holy shit effects don't pieces their causes don't drink on a Monday
those defonitions you supose are confined by defonition *(aka language)*
defonitionally you are correct
black is the opposite to white
therfore black cannot be white
that is a defonitionnaly true statement and also mean white cannot be black
but white and black are a tone not a distinct pigment
so
if i say all tones are the same colour
defonitionally white can now be black violating causality
your playing word games and creating prisons for thought
but as we know i just made a word prison and then violated it
white is not black but black and white share common properties and i used groupings of properties to create an impossible contradiction by definition
but in reality i used word salad to limit how we think about things and then proved that the word salad is clearly wrong *even though its not* we have enough intellegence to realise black is not white
>your playing word games and creating prisons for thought
Take your meds. Cause can not follow effect. That's not a word game that's a logical truism.
If you peer into the future (genuinely, not a "predictive model", the actual future), see an accident, and then avoid said accident then the event that cause your action no longer exists. Therefore you could not have seen it in the past whereby you wouldn't have made the attempt to stop it yet somehow you still did.
If you say "well it wasn't actually the true future just a possible future" then you didn't truly look into the future now did you and we're in agreement.
wheres your proof for that axiomatic supposition
your imposeing arbitraty rules and extrapolating from them more arbitrary rules about things you have no idea about
even if your logical truism is true its also logically deduceable that nobody knows that cause cannot precede effect infact their are mathmatical ideas that show time as a construct and both cause and effect happening simultaniously
cause cannot precede effect because we define it in language as such their may be no such thing as cause or effect
but the way we interprit reality being liner requires a cause and effect mentallity to make sense of our exp[experiences
>3 dimensions of space 1 dimension of time
>3 dimensions of time, 1 dimension of space
>what is space-time, time-space
>>t. Physics-let
this
>what is space-time, time-space
nothing you can perceive, homosexual
This shit is why I hate philosophy. Pointless hypothesising over things that can't be tested or researched.
All you're doing is putting a modern spin on "if a tree falls in the forest and nobody is around to hear it does it make a sound?"
>if a tree falls in the forest and nobody is around to hear it does it make a sound
Idealism
Or sunyata
I can and do perceive space-time of course because it is relevant to this perception of sentience in a human form, but I cannot perceive time-space because of aforementioned conditions.
great, let me know when you can see the future
Clearly these concepts are beyond your intelligence anon.
Look here:
What do you think space-time is>
What do you think time-space is?
it doesn't count as perceiving the future when you force the discussion in a circle
IF WE DID NOT EXIST IN A MATERIAL FORM IN 1 DIMENSION OF TIME AND 3 DIMENSIONS OF SPACE, BUT WE EXIST IN AN IMMATERIAL FORM IN 3 DIMENSIONS OF TIME BUT 1 DIMENSION OF SPACE, RELATIVE TO THE FORMER, WE WILL BE ABLE TO SEE IN THE FUTURE AND THE PAST AS WELL AS THE PRESENT....3 DIMENSIONS OF TIME
>IF WE DID NOT EXIST IN A MATERIAL
see
>picks up piece of paper
>folds it in half
>pokes a pencil through it
What now, anon?
>picks up a picture of amy adams
>pokes a hole in the mouth
you wouldn't even need eyes to see the future
>you wouldn't even need eyes to see the future
>Different languages do change our thought patterns and consequently the way we look at reality
that was a meme study that was debunked
I know nothing about the study you're referencing ... but assuming a reasonable interpretation of "change our thought patterns", it should very obviously be true, no? The simple fact that some languages are self-orientated vs outwardly-oriented, or swap the position of verbs, etc, means that the way we think about how to express a thought should be quite different. Even the differences in how cultures decide to "name" different concepts should have an effect on how we think about things (eg. some common types of feelings don't have an explicit "name" in English and need elaboration, whereas in other cultures that feeling might have it's own unique name). It "feels" like this is more than just a simple labeling issue.
Obviously this is a much more subtle difference in "changing our thought patterns" than ... being able to see the future. But it feels self evident that our choice of language structure should have some not-insignificant effect on parts of our thought processes?
It's the same reason why orientals are good at math, because they pretty much are making additions of syllables and symbols to create their language.
And why Germans are good at hard sciences and philosophy, they're language is extremely straightforward.
>teacher had us watch this movie for a linguistic class in college
>everyone praising it
>thought it was dumb as hell
I thought I wasn't privy to an inside joke when this flick released. At the time, nearly everyone I knew universally praised the movie as some deep intellectual piece of le cinema. Well I watched it. It's an incredibly dumb assembly line Hollywood blockbuster. Get dunked on Arrival gays.
Linguistics classes are some of the most moronic classes out there
Had a linguistic sociology class where the professor made us read an article claiming that "hasta la vista baby" was racist because it subtly conveyed the message that Hispanics were liable to "betray you while smiling" or something to that extent
please don't dismiss the entire field because moronic lefties infect everything.
I liked mine because it was mostly about tracing european languages to indoeuropean or latin or mixes via common roots or loanwords. The polish supposedly have a word for "what-was-it-called" that's just german "wie-heist-er" considered a single word.
This movie had so many downright moronic premises that you are expected to just eat up that I'm in amazement at how well it was received considering.
Because the point of the movie wasn't to be hard sci fi. It was a story about dealing with loss and how something potentially ending badly shouldn't be a justification for not taking that chance, and that it doesn't erase all of the enjoyment and good that came on the journey
Soft sci fi doesn't mean you have absolute moronation and it's somehow fine.
>implying you can't have good sci fi that is also personally meaningful
Forcing the writing to adhere to technically accurate scifi can only diminish the other qualities of a film. Thats why there aren't examples of both good and accurate sci-fi movies.
No. It's science-fiction.
it literally isn't. There's basically zero sci fi in this movie if you think about it.
If you think about it logically, time is just a basis of sensory experience, not an external force that is independent of the sentience perceiving it, so yes with X skill one could basically perceive time in 3 dimensions, though this is science fiction and IRL our material bodies are bound by 1 dimension of time so I would expect to perceive time in 3 dimensions we would need to shed our material form, which it looks like the AYYYS did in that movie, while the female human went a but chicken oriental dealing with the sensory overload.
>If you think about it logically, time is just a basis of sensory experience, not an external force that is independent of the sentience perceiving it,
Wrong.
Go look up what happens around a black hole or even just the twin paradox
You are a brainlet
Not him, but I believe time is a sensory category we apply to the world and the more you depart from immediate experience, the less accurate it becomes.
>Not him, but I believe time is a sensory category
you never head about time dilation?
>time is just a basis of sensory experience
it's a measure of movement lol
Time is something we made up
it literally isn't
It doesn't work on other planets
sauce?
Mars time is not ours if something evolved on it. You don't need a source
Gravitational time dilation
>animals from a far flung solar system with completely different sensory organs would totally understand human concepts
>despite humans having trouble understand dolphin language
Just change the sides on the movie, we humans travel to another planet, and try to make some tribal aliens understand our language, how hard would that be?
Before we reached there, we'd have had access to years of their radio and TV broadcasts. With the level of technology required to reach them, we'd probably at least have a partially working translation system
thats true, will we ever find a way to space travel at the speed of light or faster?
I hope so but I doubt it
Lol no but you could alter your sense of smell by inhaling their braps.
math is invented not discovered, Cinemaphile is right Cinemaphile can keep seething
Isn't the whole thing that learning their language means they can now explain things like foresight properly to you? Like, all languages on earth are not capable of explaining the concept, so now boom, you know our language, you now have cognition of all time, ezpz.
>noo i cant comprehend any maths system that isnt based on my ten fingers and toes or describe what hydrogen is in subatomic components let alone its wavelength save me Black personman
These same anons would be just as fervent describing creationism-tier dogma if they lived 200 years ago. Just because you were taught something during your formative years by someone you consider a role model does not make it a universal truth.
t. Learned something last week and it's troof
Bro if there's one alien there is a word for 1 and if there are two aliens there is a word for 2
Yeah, this probably works for the most basic things, but the more advanced the math gets, the more opportunities there are for the equations and methods to be different. There is no guarantee that the aliens came up with or ever needed the Pythagorean Theorem, no guarantee they came up with the quadratic equation, etc. They could be arriving at answers using methods incomprehensible to us which make our math systems unable to translate between each other.
See above. Usually when people talk about "communicating with math" they're talking about higher level concepts than just 2x2=4, and the higher you go the more chance for diversion there is.
>what in your life led you to believe that 1=2 on other planets
I was using that as a simplified shortcut to illustrate a concept we could all agree would seem impossible. It's difficult to formulate complete examples of functional math systems outside our own because it's beyond the reasoning we grew up with.
>Usually when people talk about "communicating with math" they're talking about higher level concepts
actually people (if they're halfway smart) are usually talking about very basic math that doesn't require notation, like listing prime numbers or the fibonacci sequence
Bro, you are only thinking that because it makes sense to you. But what if they don't? What if they reduce everything down to a wave function and interpret every piece of matter as an energy signature? What if they are comprehending things in an entirely different way to even that? What if the axiomatic concepts of 1 and 2 have been long lost and no longer describable let alone used in their life? If its incomprehensible to us how they dont use something like human math then its equally assumable that the reason they dont use it is also... incomprehensible.
Then assuming we haven't nuked each other yet we paint in sand they paint in voodoo smoke images and work it from there.
NO I WENT INTO DEBT AND WASTED TIME STUDYING AT COLLEGE MY PROFESSORS CANT BE WRONG
STEMbros...
someone asked "but wot if..?"
how do we recover from this?
>anons have trouble explaining what they mean
>heckin aliens would get it all though
We're obviously not sending our best
Autists have difficulty understanding that other people have different opinions than themselves so of course when you start talking about different mathematics they all start reee’ing.
>Be advanced alien race 3000 years ahead of humanity
>Can't decipher a simple phonic language with 26 characters.
Can you speak dog
i have a dog. i've trained him in various obedience commands and tricks. they're not difficult to understand.
You trained it human but you can speak dog. Your vocal chords aren't the same
>this Black person actually believes dogs have a secret language when they bark.
>he never saw 101 Dalmatians
I feel like people are missing the point that the aliens specifically came to earth to teach humans their language.
if you're an alien who wants to teach language i think it'd be better to be able to say
>hey we're here to teach you language
so humans can focus on learning rather than wondering if you're they're to eat them or something
How do you say that without learning a language?
Math doesn’t help you communicate concepts like that.
It seemed like they were only on earth for weeks/months so they seemed to do pretty good.
yeah but you don't have to learn a whole language to communicate, and it really helps if both parties cooperate rather than just one trying to learn the other
You realize that the movie that was suspenseful and exciting to you was an obvious and boring conclusion to the heptopods?
why didn't they bring the textbooks then
Assuming they knew english that's a good point.
I'm not ashamed to admit I didn't understand this movie and I've watched it at least 3 times
Humans from the very very future travel back in time to alter the past.
Not even close.
>learn demon speak
>radically alters and corrupts your eschatology to serve them
Octopodes eject ink to confuse and distract -- these ayys' hands are prehensile dicks. What do you think is going on here?
I thought about that question for a while and came to the conclusion that know, learning a circle language wouldnt give you the ability to know the future.
Yes, I would unironically do this if I saw a alien.
Everyone here needs to read Blindsight to see just how different an alien can be.
what do teh alien be like
That's the ship on the cover, and that's the anomaly (more or less).
It's veins are filled with hardcore radiation and it's moronic blood cells can trick our hyper advanced, and in one case, half machine brains.
>It's veins are filled with hardcore radiation and it's moronic blood cells can trick our hyper advanced, and in one case, half machine brains.
Okay
that's not that crazy
There's more, you fool.
I paraphrased and it's a nearly 400 page book.
>There's more, you fool.
Yeah well doesn't sound that crazy if you ask me.
If we ever met aliens we could probably kick their asses.
Sounds epic.
Also I didn't mention the vampires.
It's dumb and cool.
what is a progamming language? whats the difference between a desktop environment written in java and one written in Rust? same thing with the movie,
of course youre going to learn some voodo magic if you learn the language of a really advanced Alien race, or at the very least, your brain will be faster, smarter or just plain better
I am arriving to a conclusion there is no way to go back to past. To the future you can. But when arriving to the future it will become a present day. Even if you can travel faster than the speed of light. You will arrive home to the present of your future earth. Or if you travel to another far away galaxy you will see a live stream of Earth in the past. Even if you instantly travel back to Earth you will be on the same timeline as you were from that far away galaxy which would be the present time(future)
You're always traveling to the future.
Cant wait for this queer to inject pic related with unneccesary drama and conflict and completely miss the point.
I can't wait for the scene when Feyd has to slaughter his slave harem as punishment for lazily trying to kill the Baron.
that's very clearly not a fricking dune illustration
He's sitting in sand.
Also excuse me for not recognizing 1/4 of a sci-fi book cover.
motherfricker if you haven't read rama you shouldn't be allowed to even look at scifi threads
I have it, it's probably next.
>ayyz are incoherent eldritch abominations
we discovered quantum stuff decades ago, and there are STILL people who think the future somehow 'exists' already
this is like continuing to believe in evil humors causing diseases decades after penicillin is discovered
Probably not, since that's not even what the Sapir–Whorf hypothesis actually works.
Presumably whatever means the heptapods use to perceive time non-linearly is inherent to their brain structure.
But it needs to work that way for the plot to happen.
You think through language, it's what helps you materialize thoughts into concepts and viceversa.
Did you know that classical Greeks didn't have a particular word for the color blue? Coincidentally, blue is not really present in classical Greek art.
Did you know that barely any sub-saharian tribe has the word for promise? Why? Because it implies a future tense. These people don't have words for future actions so they're incapable of long-term thinking.
So the short answer is yeah. Putting concepts into words basically makes these concepts as plausible, even if it's just in thought.
the premise of the film is that the aliens have no language
they are teaching humans magic time numbers
for example if everytime we said the number 351 in our minds with correct syntax we could remember what happend exactly 30 secconds ago
or everytime we think of x we can see the closest red car
do you understand?? its not a language persay its secret universal knowledge of time that can be acted on individually and they use a language to communicate it to us
the movie even goes as far as to show how it has nothing to do with the language at all but the conceptual patterns the language forces the brain to think
mastering theese conceptual patterns *through the medium of language* aloows time to be percived differently
We already have this ability. The movie is a heavily veiled knowledge drop.
The fact you're wondering this means the knowledge drop was succesful, and no one will ever be the wiser. It's be disseminated into the body population and the idea will spread.
Don't believe me that it's real? Think of all the times you had a premonition. Think of all the times you had a want or a desire and the want or desire ended up coming to you. This happens not only passively but you can actively cause things to happen in the future. Some people call this "Law of Attraction", and they're essentially the same thing. It goes by many other names.
You can even affect past events from your future self.
>Think of all the times you had a want or a desire and the want or desire ended up coming to you.
Let me ask your smart pants a question here. If both guys are boiling the same amount of water with the same stove kettle etc. and both turn on the stove at the same time. One guy is moving faster than the speed of light and the other is just a normal guy. How the heck does a guy moving faster than the speed of light cook the water faster since how the heck does heat conduct faster at the speed of light?
Yeah. But I'm talking about the Flash. How the heck does he take a crap, wipe his ass. Heat up the water. Drink it and save a girl in 1 sec? How do you heat the water less than a sec? Slowing down time to do all that but how does one heat the water if the damn thing takes more than a second to heat up to boiling point?
well the flash is my faveroute superhero because he can run fast and stuff thats super cool
but im not sure the water does heat at different speeds but the entire point of the film is i thought *and im not smart enough to see how im wrong here but i feel intrinsically at fault makeing this statement* is that you could watch the person heat up the water faster than you he would have finished boiling it while you water was yet to finish boiling
or are you talking about that low pressure thing where water really does heat faster?? there are circumstances if i remember where water litterly heats faster
lmao i guess this is what you mean?
>EDIT
>I'm talking to your FLASH