If I existed in the Avatar universe I'd probably be on Jet's side in making the Fire Nation pay for all the bullshit they pulled on the world for the last century. Frick this forgive and forget shit. An eye for an eye is based. Show those fire b***hes no mercy, they never showed any to anyone else.
>thinking the cycle of revenge ends there
They will burn down your village, behead your men, violate your women, and enslave your children, and force you to watch before burning you alive
Flood another Fire Nation town. I dare you.
Do you think an R/adult Avatar show has any chance of being made?
2 years ago
Anonymous
No, remember what happened with Ren and Stimpy
2 years ago
Anonymous
Yeah but that was a cash grab and a poor decision, Avatar is a much more mature show perfect for bloody combat scenes and the fans of the original are getting older now.
>give earthies the knowledge of how to become an industrial powerhouse >give them guns >they become PRC v2.0
wave goodbye to your superiority fire bois
>Fire Nation waged war again the other three for generations >finally decide to take it to their turf and frick their shit up for a change >”uh oh! Looks like the Fire Nation is gonna continue doing what they’ve been doing to you for generations since you did that!
nothing changes.
taking away the fire nations current leadership would be sufficient. Do you think that causing more people to suffer would help anyone?
>thinking the cycle of revenge ends there
They will burn down your village, behead your men, violate your women, and enslave your children, and force you to watch before burning you alive
Flood another Fire Nation town. I dare you.
>If I existed in the Avatar universe I'd probably be on Jet's side in making the Fire Nation pay for all the bullshit they pulled on the world for the last century. Frick this forgive and forget shit. An eye for an eye is based. Show those fire b***hes no mercy, they never showed any to anyone else. >gibs revenge
Sieges are a legit part of warfare, and given how Ba Sing Se works it was probably fine for the inhabitants. Literally didn't realise the war was happening, or at least successfully pretended not to.
Genocide? Closest he comes is making the dragons extinct, and he actually spares them.
Murder? Zero proof.
Of course, it is more interesting for Iroh to be a Rommel. A charismatic, respectable guy who worked for a horrific regime and not only had no qualms about working for them but almost certainly looked the other way at what his men were doing. And notably, compared to a lot of cartoon redemption arcs, Iroh definitely suffered because of his evil actions.
Feet so divine
Tickle those toes
With dirty, sweaty skin
The smell hits my nose
Little e-girl feet come marching home
Smelly e-girl feet come marching home
Feet so divine
Tickle those toes
With dirty, sweaty skin
The smell hits my nose
Little e-girl feet come marching home
Smelly e-girl feet come marching home
Do we have any evidence he actually committed what would be considered a war crime or murder? He honestly seemed a lot contain and calm compared to anyone else in the family even when he was having the enemy's biggest city under siege. Fire Nation Concord territories might have been in a good position if he became fire lord.
avatar starts well after he was finished with that life. The siege of ba sing se certainly resulted in death which you might call murder, but killing people isn't a war crime.
The idea of irohs reputation being overblown is supported by his title 'the dragon of the west' which he earned by killing the last known living dragon. We see in the series that he actually learned from these great ancient firebenders, and kept their existence a secret.
>He’s never had a family member who served and killed
You'd have to be a seriously stupid bag of shit to unironically compare serving as a foot soldier to orchestrating a siege of a city filled with civilians.
It wasn’t just a siege, it was a conflict. Iroh’s son dies during it. And we have no reason to believe they were just slaughtering civilians. The act of murder changes severity with Iroh because he had a higher rank than a grunt would, but the act itself isn’t judged as harshly as in peacetime because war is war. You do what you have to do.
>What do you think happens during sieges?
statistically, victory through starvation.
but since Ba Sing Se has farmland inside of it, that was never an option.
A siege through starvation tactics seems like a standard medieval military affair. Not really rises to the level of a "war crime".
In the same show, you got stuff like Jet trying to flood a city which would not only kill the fire nation soldiers, but also the civilians within. Then in S2 EP1 you have that Earth Kingdom General who buries a girl alive just to rile up Aang to get into the Avatar State. Not to mention walking war crime Ozai who literally wants to burn the Earth Kingdom down. All of these examples seem a lot more extremely and direct than, oh General Iroh led a generic siege of a fortified capital city of an enemy nation.
It is a war. Ba Sing Se isn't some innocent little farm town. It has actual defensive walls for a reason. It's the Earth Kingdom capital. Ba Sing Se expects a siege, and Iroh delivered.
>War criminals
I think its a stupid term to throw around on Iroh or Azula.
MUHHH WARRRR CRIMES... oh yeah like both sides in a war do not do heinous shit to win. Its only a problem for the loser though.
Jimmy Carter no
Because everyone forgets he existed
Also even though he was a bad president, I don't know of him ordering any big military operations at all
>Can't help the Avatar take down Ozai to stop him from genociding the Earth Kingdom because history would just view it as just one sibling fighting another for power >Even though Ozai has already officially abdicated his position of Fire Lord in favor of his insane Phoenix King shit >Sends Zuko to fight his sister for the throne because for some reason history won't view that as just one sibling fighting another for power >Can't even help with the fleet of murder zeppelins, leaving it to three children (2 of which aren't even benders) >Instead wastes time and effort retaking Ba Sing Sae in a move that would mean jack shit if the zeppelins aren't stopped
But anon, he was just following orders.
Everybody knows that just following an order to commit a war of aggression doesn't count as a war crime if I like the guy.
You could also stretch it and say anyone who's attacked Katara is a war criminal depending on whether or not her healing abilities classify her as a medic
In order for it to qualify as a war crime, the medic in question must have their medic insignia clearly displayed and cannot be carrying any weapon beyond basic small arms. This is a strange dichotomy as far as Katara is concerned, because you know what else is a war crime? Presenting yourself as a medic to trick the enemy.
Female water benders are almost universally healers, so attacking Katara would be a war crime because that's a very easily identifiable way to determine who is and isn't a medic. But she's also a master in waterbending combat techniques (far more so than she's a master of healing) so technically her attacking anyone is ALSO a war crime because she's presenting herself as a medic when she's actually a warrior.
Or, we could go with the option that Earth's Geneva Convention doesn't fricking apply to the Avatar universe and just move on.
You guys do realize that forgiveness, redemption and reconciliation were major themes in the show and being a revenge-fueled warmonger is actively what the story is against, right? We went through this with the southern raiders episode, you're missing the entire point of the series by calling for fire nation blood.
Would be cool if we got a prequel series that shows Iroh as a young general and his transformation arc from renowned warmonger to the man of peace he is today.
Iroh casually escaped a Fire Nation POW prison. I wouldn't want to be the glowBlack person sent to capture him post-war. Not to mention it may risk angering the Fire Nation/Zuko and restart the war
>muh geneva suggestion
The only thing they got right are
1) False Surrenders
2) Firing on medics
3) Gas
4) Land mines
Everything else is just crybaby tactics like Hitler and trenchguns.
>troony seethes about a positive father figure yet again.
Your father disowned you and thought of you a disappointment. That doesn't mean caring parents with children worthy of them don't exist.
seethes about a positive father figure yet again. >Your father disowned you and thought of you a disappointment. That doesn't mean caring parents with children worthy of them don't exist.
What?
While I agree with you, you need a bit more viewer comprehension. We never see that Iroh as a viewer, the bloodthirsty warlord he was is only implied, we see the man he becomes after losing his status and his son.
It's not impossible, but it's going to take some significantly renewed interest in Avatar or a long enough gap where a reboot is possible. Korra was divisive and the live action movie killed a lot of franchise good will. Voltron Legendary Defender started off goofy and light-hearted like airbender and fell on its fricking face, partly due to tonal whiplash of a Y-7 show talking genocide and people getting human sacrificed for mechas. Arcane, Castlevania, DOTA: Dragon's Blood, and some other more mature animated/cartoon stuff exists and are pretty successful.
I think R-rated Avatar will raise eyebrows, with a lot of skepticism on if it could work of it it's an "edge sells"-marketing play. So it has to be a completely different Avatar a la Korra. Or a straight up AU continuity (same basic premise, unrelated to Aang and Korra).
A big problem I think is a lot of animation like cartoons and anime set out to make "franchises" and sell merch which is where they can reap the largest profit margins. Voltron was absolutely shitty at selling merch and was part of the reason why execs were keen on shutting it down (and no, fan artists selling their shit at expos doesn't make the company money). So you're probably going to need a Netflix deal (Netflix doesn't give as much shit about merch) but they already have that live action Avatar in the works, so they might be tapped out on Avatar interest unless it super-really-takes-off.
>embody the ideals of introspection, morality and character growth
>anon doesn't get it
Not surprised
>he thinks genocide, seiges and murder are forgivable
If I existed in the Avatar universe I'd probably be on Jet's side in making the Fire Nation pay for all the bullshit they pulled on the world for the last century. Frick this forgive and forget shit. An eye for an eye is based. Show those fire b***hes no mercy, they never showed any to anyone else.
>thinking the cycle of revenge ends there
They will burn down your village, behead your men, violate your women, and enslave your children, and force you to watch before burning you alive
Flood another Fire Nation town. I dare you.
This reminds me how much material they'd have to work with if they ever made an R rated Avatar show.
Do you think an R/adult Avatar show has any chance of being made?
No, remember what happened with Ren and Stimpy
Yeah but that was a cash grab and a poor decision, Avatar is a much more mature show perfect for bloody combat scenes and the fans of the original are getting older now.
Good, we'll repay them harder once their leader is taken down.
>give earthies the knowledge of how to become an industrial powerhouse
>give them guns
>they become PRC v2.0
wave goodbye to your superiority fire bois
>Fire Nation waged war again the other three for generations
>finally decide to take it to their turf and frick their shit up for a change
>”uh oh! Looks like the Fire Nation is gonna continue doing what they’ve been doing to you for generations since you did that!
nothing changes.
taking away the fire nations current leadership would be sufficient. Do you think that causing more people to suffer would help anyone?
this
Noooo you're supposed to forgive and forget.
I feel the same about whites
>If I existed in the Avatar universe I'd probably be on Jet's side in making the Fire Nation pay for all the bullshit they pulled on the world for the last century. Frick this forgive and forget shit. An eye for an eye is based. Show those fire b***hes no mercy, they never showed any to anyone else.
>gibs revenge
Sieges are a legit part of warfare, and given how Ba Sing Se works it was probably fine for the inhabitants. Literally didn't realise the war was happening, or at least successfully pretended not to.
Genocide? Closest he comes is making the dragons extinct, and he actually spares them.
Murder? Zero proof.
Of course, it is more interesting for Iroh to be a Rommel. A charismatic, respectable guy who worked for a horrific regime and not only had no qualms about working for them but almost certainly looked the other way at what his men were doing. And notably, compared to a lot of cartoon redemption arcs, Iroh definitely suffered because of his evil actions.
Unironically
>He’s never had a family member who served and killed
I'm sure all the thousands of people who lost loved ones appreciate that.
Continuing to live as a mass murderer isn't moral. Suicide is an option.
Why don't you take your own advice?
>"Age is nothing but a number,Prince Zuko, and Toph's dirty feet are as hot as a fresh cup of jasmine tea regardless of how old she is!"
Feet so divine
Tickle those toes
With dirty, sweaty skin
The smell hits my nose
Little e-girl feet come marching home
Smelly e-girl feet come marching home
I think I'm done for now.
Do we have any evidence he actually committed what would be considered a war crime or murder? He honestly seemed a lot contain and calm compared to anyone else in the family even when he was having the enemy's biggest city under siege. Fire Nation Concord territories might have been in a good position if he became fire lord.
avatar starts well after he was finished with that life. The siege of ba sing se certainly resulted in death which you might call murder, but killing people isn't a war crime.
The idea of irohs reputation being overblown is supported by his title 'the dragon of the west' which he earned by killing the last known living dragon. We see in the series that he actually learned from these great ancient firebenders, and kept their existence a secret.
>Do we have any evidence he actually committed what would be considered a war crime or murder?
No.
>What is the siege of ba sing se
Besieging a city isn't a war crime.
What do you think happens during sieges?
You'd have to be a seriously stupid bag of shit to unironically compare serving as a foot soldier to orchestrating a siege of a city filled with civilians.
It wasn’t just a siege, it was a conflict. Iroh’s son dies during it. And we have no reason to believe they were just slaughtering civilians. The act of murder changes severity with Iroh because he had a higher rank than a grunt would, but the act itself isn’t judged as harshly as in peacetime because war is war. You do what you have to do.
>What do you think happens during sieges?
statistically, victory through starvation.
but since Ba Sing Se has farmland inside of it, that was never an option.
A siege through starvation tactics seems like a standard medieval military affair. Not really rises to the level of a "war crime".
In the same show, you got stuff like Jet trying to flood a city which would not only kill the fire nation soldiers, but also the civilians within. Then in S2 EP1 you have that Earth Kingdom General who buries a girl alive just to rile up Aang to get into the Avatar State. Not to mention walking war crime Ozai who literally wants to burn the Earth Kingdom down. All of these examples seem a lot more extremely and direct than, oh General Iroh led a generic siege of a fortified capital city of an enemy nation.
It is a war. Ba Sing Se isn't some innocent little farm town. It has actual defensive walls for a reason. It's the Earth Kingdom capital. Ba Sing Se expects a siege, and Iroh delivered.
>War criminals
I think its a stupid term to throw around on Iroh or Azula.
MUHHH WARRRR CRIMES... oh yeah like both sides in a war do not do heinous shit to win. Its only a problem for the loser though.
Did you and has recognized certain options as war crimes in Warfare along with multiple other International agreement.
Do you have any evidence this General committed genocide murder or that last thing in the show?
Does drone striking middle eastern civilians count as a war crime? Better go clamp Obama in irons then.
yes, along with every living US President. I'm not joking.
Absolutely Obama is a war criminal. All presidents for decades have been.
Jimmy Carter no
Because everyone forgets he existed
Also even though he was a bad president, I don't know of him ordering any big military operations at all
And everyone who voted him into office, he's just a representative of eveey American's will.
Just like Abraham Lincoln, speaking the name of which is as to spit.
Fire Nation Reparations.
wouldn't it make more sense to pay those to the Earth Kingdom rather than the one Air Nomad?
Air nomad needs to be rebuilt most especially its population.
if Aang doesn't want a harem of girls who've tried to kill him before, then what good would it do to force one on him?
>Can't help the Avatar take down Ozai to stop him from genociding the Earth Kingdom because history would just view it as just one sibling fighting another for power
>Even though Ozai has already officially abdicated his position of Fire Lord in favor of his insane Phoenix King shit
>Sends Zuko to fight his sister for the throne because for some reason history won't view that as just one sibling fighting another for power
>Can't even help with the fleet of murder zeppelins, leaving it to three children (2 of which aren't even benders)
>Instead wastes time and effort retaking Ba Sing Sae in a move that would mean jack shit if the zeppelins aren't stopped
Never thought of it that way, he should have helped Sokka, Toph and Suki hijack the zeppelin and used it to win back the city.
But anon, he was just following orders.
Everybody knows that just following an order to commit a war of aggression doesn't count as a war crime if I like the guy.
He never does any war crime in the show.
All we know he did as a general was siege Ba Sing Se and joke about burning it down.
A character who does commit a warcrime in show, Sokka.
Guess when.
Northern Air Temple, Flying an enemy's colors
You could also stretch it and say anyone who's attacked Katara is a war criminal depending on whether or not her healing abilities classify her as a medic
If you actively attack others, the fact you know first aid doesn't make you count as a medic
In order for it to qualify as a war crime, the medic in question must have their medic insignia clearly displayed and cannot be carrying any weapon beyond basic small arms. This is a strange dichotomy as far as Katara is concerned, because you know what else is a war crime? Presenting yourself as a medic to trick the enemy.
Female water benders are almost universally healers, so attacking Katara would be a war crime because that's a very easily identifiable way to determine who is and isn't a medic. But she's also a master in waterbending combat techniques (far more so than she's a master of healing) so technically her attacking anyone is ALSO a war crime because she's presenting herself as a medic when she's actually a warrior.
Or, we could go with the option that Earth's Geneva Convention doesn't fricking apply to the Avatar universe and just move on.
correct
>Guess when.
Definitely the haiku in Tales of Ba Sing Se.
When did he commit war crimes? After his son died he dropped the seige.
You guys do realize that forgiveness, redemption and reconciliation were major themes in the show and being a revenge-fueled warmonger is actively what the story is against, right? We went through this with the southern raiders episode, you're missing the entire point of the series by calling for fire nation blood.
Would be cool if we got a prequel series that shows Iroh as a young general and his transformation arc from renowned warmonger to the man of peace he is today.
They could condensed it to 1-2 episodes.
You're only a war criminal if you lose. Zuko's part in usurping his father ensured that he could end the war in a white peace
Not the international standard for what is considered a war crime. Holding people accountable you need to be captured it's not if you win or lose.
Iroh casually escaped a Fire Nation POW prison. I wouldn't want to be the glowBlack person sent to capture him post-war. Not to mention it may risk angering the Fire Nation/Zuko and restart the war
>muh geneva suggestion
The only thing they got right are
1) False Surrenders
2) Firing on medics
3) Gas
4) Land mines
Everything else is just crybaby tactics like Hitler and trenchguns.
>>be war criminal and murderer
>He killed people in war. That makes him a war criminal.
You're a fricking moron.
How can war crimes be a thing when war in itself is a crime?
>troony seethes about a positive father figure yet again.
Your father disowned you and thought of you a disappointment. That doesn't mean caring parents with children worthy of them don't exist.
seethes about a positive father figure yet again.
>Your father disowned you and thought of you a disappointment. That doesn't mean caring parents with children worthy of them don't exist.
What?
So who did Iroh frick to make Lu Ten? It's kind of weird nobody mentions her at all, not even just a passing comment about how she died or whatever.
I've always wondered who Iroh's lover was too.
While I agree with you, you need a bit more viewer comprehension. We never see that Iroh as a viewer, the bloodthirsty warlord he was is only implied, we see the man he becomes after losing his status and his son.
What are the chances of a mature/R rated Avatar show ever happening?
about the same as a Star Wars R rated one
It's not impossible, but it's going to take some significantly renewed interest in Avatar or a long enough gap where a reboot is possible. Korra was divisive and the live action movie killed a lot of franchise good will. Voltron Legendary Defender started off goofy and light-hearted like airbender and fell on its fricking face, partly due to tonal whiplash of a Y-7 show talking genocide and people getting human sacrificed for mechas. Arcane, Castlevania, DOTA: Dragon's Blood, and some other more mature animated/cartoon stuff exists and are pretty successful.
I think R-rated Avatar will raise eyebrows, with a lot of skepticism on if it could work of it it's an "edge sells"-marketing play. So it has to be a completely different Avatar a la Korra. Or a straight up AU continuity (same basic premise, unrelated to Aang and Korra).
A big problem I think is a lot of animation like cartoons and anime set out to make "franchises" and sell merch which is where they can reap the largest profit margins. Voltron was absolutely shitty at selling merch and was part of the reason why execs were keen on shutting it down (and no, fan artists selling their shit at expos doesn't make the company money). So you're probably going to need a Netflix deal (Netflix doesn't give as much shit about merch) but they already have that live action Avatar in the works, so they might be tapped out on Avatar interest unless it super-really-takes-off.