The funny thing is that if Cinemaphile existed in the late 80s/early 90s you'd be b***hing about Vertigo in that exact same way as artsy PC trash that's RUINING COMICS. Capeshitters have always been shit.
>let me tell how you how you would feel about x if you were around in another time >also capeshit suxs lol 🙂
You're a homosexual and you should have a nice day. You're SOOO worthless.
You're intimidated by my obvious intellectual superiority and are coping with childish insults as a crude defense mechanism. Sure, I get that, it's a common reaction. But try to work past the fear and you'll understand the wisdom that I'm trying to impart, and be a better person for it. You're welcome.
11 months ago
Anonymous
You're an incredibly obnoxious person, and should promptly drown yourself. Anybody with a brain and a spine can see right through your fake and narcissistic ramblings to see the pathetic man you truly are.
11 months ago
Anonymous
Still nothing resembling an argument. Why do you continue to demean yourself like this? Do I scare you that much?
11 months ago
Anonymous
Why do you act like this?
11 months ago
Anonymous
Why are you so intimidated by my simple questions?
No. "Edgy" has a negative connotation, indicating something that is shocking for the sake of being shocking rather than serving a genuine artistic purpose. Neither of the two books in OP's pic are edgy. They both did employ imagery and touch on subjects that could be considered shocking or unorthodox (at least at the time) but did so with a narrative or artistic aim.
Vertigo used to be treated as somewhat independent from mainline DC in the beginning, allowing them to create more adult stuff. Basically telling OP to get away from the mainstream stuff and go for the indies and such.
>somewhat
Constantine and Martian Manhunter and Scott Free are all in the first couple issues of Sandman. Batman and Superman are at the Funeral. “Somewhat” is doing a lot of work for you there. Other than that, I agree OP should seek out indies.
>Constantine and Martian Manhunter and Scott Free are all in the first couple issues of Sandman. Batman and Superman are at the Funeral. “Somewhat” is doing a lot of work for you there.
It really isn't, the other anon is right. Vertigo was largely independent from mainline DC despite the small nods here and there. You're being deliberately obtuse here.
Ignore my points about Sandman all you want, we’re changing the subject. “Largely separate from the DC mainline” doesn’t mean Vertigo wasn’t Big 2.
11 months ago
Anonymous
And the point is while that's technically true, at the time period of OP's pic it was very much treated as a separate thing even though it was owned by DC. Consciously so, the entire point of the Vertigo line was to capture readers who weren't buying the mainline cape books. I don't know why this simple fact makes you so mad, read up on the history of Vertigo.
11 months ago
Anonymous
I’m not mad, I just disagree and feel like this whole debate is basically saying Sprite isn’t a Coca-Cola product because it isn’t Coke.
Why didn’t Marvel ever do anything like Vertigo? They’ve got some great runs in their catalogue of course, but they never branched out into that alternative stuff.
Yeah that sounds about the right time frame. I'm talking initial run Spider-man times. 70s/80s. That type of story and hero was the alternative stuff of its time and led to their peak of popularity. Once they hit that peak and it became standard for every other capeshit to copy, they never innovated beyond that.
Their capeshit for a long time was the alternative stuff. Slowly that stopped being the case and they never got the memo
Marvel had Epic Comics, which published titles like Marshal Law, Dreadstar, and Moonshadow, as well as reprinting Moebius comics and the colorized Akira manga. It was more like Marvel's Dark Horse than Vertigo.
Time to move on to mango. No one itt can even give you current western comic recommendations. They just say "go outside big 2" but go know further because they know the truth.
Now try to remember the other 85% of Vertigo books that weren't Preacher, swamp Thing, sandman, or Hellblazer and a blessed handful of others, usually from the same creators as those few.
There was a LOT of crap.
>swamp Thing, sandman, or Hellblazer
Hellblazer declined in quality the moment it became a Vertigo imprint. Swamp Thing was bad long before it became another Vertigo imprint in 1993. Sandman stayed consistently good because Gaiman kept the quality consistent regardless of the move to Vertigo. Ennis and Preacher on the other hand, always sucked because Ennis without an editor always leads to dogshit.
There's a number of reasons, actually.
1st is Marvel, in general, had a perception of already being more mature than DC. They had their Tomb of Dracula, Cloak and Dagger, Dakota North, Ghost Rider, etc. And to most people DC was still very much Superfriends and Batman '66.
2nd when Marvel wanted to tell edgier stories they either just did in the regular books like Daredevil's Born Again or they used their line of Marvel Graphic Novels, which were a prestige line of books featuring more adult situations and better colors, X-Men God Loves Man Kill and the Death of Captain Marvel both came out of this line.
3rd at the same time DC's New Format, the line of books that would become Vertigo in the 90's, was coming out Marvel had released 3 new lines of comics two of which were absolute busts, Star Comics, licensed books for babies, Epic Comics mostly translations of foreign books and the disastrous New Universe, a new line of superhero books originally pitched to replace Marvel's entire line of books. Star and the New Universe were so bad Marvel was soon up for sale and would be bought by a venture capitalist. We're talking maybe 50 new books in a year and not of them got to issue 20 but Groo.
3rd while the Vertigo classics are evergreen now as babies 1st comics in their floppy single issue format they were not sales juggernauts, even with Wizard magazine pumping the up every month, Sandman would top the top 50 if it has a gimmick cover but that's it. Once Image came around DC was bleeding sales and no one was looking to emulate them.
Time to move on to mango. No one itt can even give you current western comic recommendations. They just say "go outside big 2" but go know further because they know the truth.
The funny thing is that if Cinemaphile existed in the late 80s/early 90s you'd be b***hing about Vertigo in that exact same way as artsy PC trash that's RUINING COMICS. Capeshitters have always been shit.
>Comics used to be cool. Why can’t they be cool again?
Because there is no drive to make these new editors and writers strive to work better. In the mid-80s DC was getting its ass handed to them by Marvel, so they took a chance with Alan Moore and other writers from the UK.
In comparison now, the editors and writers treat their responsibilities like a job.
Because the tumblr refugees (women and gays) in the industry have no artistic talent.
The funny thing is that if Cinemaphile existed in the late 80s/early 90s you'd be b***hing about Vertigo in that exact same way as artsy PC trash that's RUINING COMICS. Capeshitters have always been shit.
>let me tell how you how you would feel about x if you were around in another time
>also capeshit suxs lol 🙂
You're a homosexual and you should have a nice day. You're SOOO worthless.
Since you have no presented a counterargument, I assume you are agreeing with me and graciously accept your concession. Thank you.
Nah, screw you. Take that homosexual debater shit back to Яeddit.
You're intimidated by my obvious intellectual superiority and are coping with childish insults as a crude defense mechanism. Sure, I get that, it's a common reaction. But try to work past the fear and you'll understand the wisdom that I'm trying to impart, and be a better person for it. You're welcome.
You're an incredibly obnoxious person, and should promptly drown yourself. Anybody with a brain and a spine can see right through your fake and narcissistic ramblings to see the pathetic man you truly are.
Still nothing resembling an argument. Why do you continue to demean yourself like this? Do I scare you that much?
Why do you act like this?
Why are you so intimidated by my simple questions?
Frick off.
>if Cinemaphile existed in the late 80s/early 90s
Comic fans did exist back then, and they never complained about it back then.
The industry.
>Comics used to be
Edgy. That's the word you're looking for.
Some still are, just not as popular. Keep looking.
No, I mean cool. Some comics used to have prestige and be a big deal culturally.
>Edgy. That's the word you're looking for.
No. "Edgy" has a negative connotation, indicating something that is shocking for the sake of being shocking rather than serving a genuine artistic purpose. Neither of the two books in OP's pic are edgy. They both did employ imagery and touch on subjects that could be considered shocking or unorthodox (at least at the time) but did so with a narrative or artistic aim.
Edgy used to be a compliment. The comics in the OP are edgy in the original sense.
>Edgy used to be a compliment.
Frick no it wasn't. It was always used as a criticism, especially in the 90s.
It absolutely was. It's like the word "gay".
"Edgy" used to mean something groundbreaking, experimental and fresh.
>It absolutely was. It's like the word "gay".
My friend, we're talking about the 1990s not the 1890s.
>"Edgy" used to mean something groundbreaking, experimental and fresh.
Then provide an example from the time period of that word being used positively.
>Then provide an example from the time period of that word being used positively.
That'll take forever.
Because you're only focusing on the ragebait. Go actually explore the stuff outside the big two just like you did to discover Sandman.
>Sandman
>outside the big two
anon…
Vertigo used to be treated as somewhat independent from mainline DC in the beginning, allowing them to create more adult stuff. Basically telling OP to get away from the mainstream stuff and go for the indies and such.
>somewhat
Constantine and Martian Manhunter and Scott Free are all in the first couple issues of Sandman. Batman and Superman are at the Funeral. “Somewhat” is doing a lot of work for you there. Other than that, I agree OP should seek out indies.
>Constantine and Martian Manhunter and Scott Free are all in the first couple issues of Sandman. Batman and Superman are at the Funeral. “Somewhat” is doing a lot of work for you there.
It really isn't, the other anon is right. Vertigo was largely independent from mainline DC despite the small nods here and there. You're being deliberately obtuse here.
Ignore my points about Sandman all you want, we’re changing the subject. “Largely separate from the DC mainline” doesn’t mean Vertigo wasn’t Big 2.
And the point is while that's technically true, at the time period of OP's pic it was very much treated as a separate thing even though it was owned by DC. Consciously so, the entire point of the Vertigo line was to capture readers who weren't buying the mainline cape books. I don't know why this simple fact makes you so mad, read up on the history of Vertigo.
I’m not mad, I just disagree and feel like this whole debate is basically saying Sprite isn’t a Coca-Cola product because it isn’t Coke.
damn that homie has some BIG breasts huh
that bra is fighting for its life
Why didn’t Marvel ever do anything like Vertigo? They’ve got some great runs in their catalogue of course, but they never branched out into that alternative stuff.
Their capeshit for a long time was the alternative stuff. Slowly that stopped being the case and they never got the memo
>Their capeshit for a long time was the alternative stuff.
What? In Vertigo's heyday of the late 80s/early 90s Marvel comics were the most mainstream and popular that they've ever been.
Yeah that sounds about the right time frame. I'm talking initial run Spider-man times. 70s/80s. That type of story and hero was the alternative stuff of its time and led to their peak of popularity. Once they hit that peak and it became standard for every other capeshit to copy, they never innovated beyond that.
Marvel had Epic Comics, which published titles like Marshal Law, Dreadstar, and Moonshadow, as well as reprinting Moebius comics and the colorized Akira manga. It was more like Marvel's Dark Horse than Vertigo.
>go know further
LeL
I will take Punisher Max over most of Vertigo, which was like Great Value fantagraphics.
I like Preacher as much as Punisher MAX, if not more.
Now try to remember the other 85% of Vertigo books that weren't Preacher, swamp Thing, sandman, or Hellblazer and a blessed handful of others, usually from the same creators as those few.
There was a LOT of crap.
That's a given with any imprint or publisher.
It's funny that for Swamp Thing and Hellblazer, the best material was pre-Vertigo.
>swamp Thing, sandman, or Hellblazer
Hellblazer declined in quality the moment it became a Vertigo imprint. Swamp Thing was bad long before it became another Vertigo imprint in 1993. Sandman stayed consistently good because Gaiman kept the quality consistent regardless of the move to Vertigo. Ennis and Preacher on the other hand, always sucked because Ennis without an editor always leads to dogshit.
Preacher is great.
The only great part about Preacher is Glenn Fabry's covers.
The covers are okay, but it's all about the the characters and the adventure.
There's a number of reasons, actually.
1st is Marvel, in general, had a perception of already being more mature than DC. They had their Tomb of Dracula, Cloak and Dagger, Dakota North, Ghost Rider, etc. And to most people DC was still very much Superfriends and Batman '66.
2nd when Marvel wanted to tell edgier stories they either just did in the regular books like Daredevil's Born Again or they used their line of Marvel Graphic Novels, which were a prestige line of books featuring more adult situations and better colors, X-Men God Loves Man Kill and the Death of Captain Marvel both came out of this line.
3rd at the same time DC's New Format, the line of books that would become Vertigo in the 90's, was coming out Marvel had released 3 new lines of comics two of which were absolute busts, Star Comics, licensed books for babies, Epic Comics mostly translations of foreign books and the disastrous New Universe, a new line of superhero books originally pitched to replace Marvel's entire line of books. Star and the New Universe were so bad Marvel was soon up for sale and would be bought by a venture capitalist. We're talking maybe 50 new books in a year and not of them got to issue 20 but Groo.
3rd while the Vertigo classics are evergreen now as babies 1st comics in their floppy single issue format they were not sales juggernauts, even with Wizard magazine pumping the up every month, Sandman would top the top 50 if it has a gimmick cover but that's it. Once Image came around DC was bleeding sales and no one was looking to emulate them.
Being cool is illegal now.
Time to move on to mango. No one itt can even give you current western comic recommendations. They just say "go outside big 2" but go know further because they know the truth.
The 00s and Disney movies happened, anon
Swamp Thing and Sandman were never cool, they were for the gays. Real chads read Youngblood and Guy Gardner: Warrior
>Youngblood and Guy Gardner: Warrior
Actual homosexual books.
Perfect illustration of
I genuinly believe you need to have a stroke to enjoy Youngblood
>posts two comics that are responsible for comics not being cool anymore
>Comics used to be cool.
Did they?
Genuinely asking, I'm not big on comics and I didn't grow up reading them outside of newspaper strips.
Sometimes.
>Comics used to be cool. Why can’t they be cool again?
Because there is no drive to make these new editors and writers strive to work better. In the mid-80s DC was getting its ass handed to them by Marvel, so they took a chance with Alan Moore and other writers from the UK.
In comparison now, the editors and writers treat their responsibilities like a job.
You image is obviously unrelated.
>You image
You never stood a chance.