i thought it was kind of a cheap kill tbh. the storyline of ruining his life really didn't have any closure. they easily could have just killed him off without that plotline entirely and it wouldn't have made a difference. Saul and Kim would still have to hide the secret
I will never understand why Kim went completely "HOWARD MUST DIE" from one moment to the other side to a tiny slight that didn't even concern her, other than "the script says so".
i think they were trying to imply that she had always resented him while being in the firm. I actually don't remember what triggered her to want to ruin his life though. Just seeing how much fun Jimmy was having?
i think they were trying to imply that she had always resented him while being in the firm. I actually don't remember what triggered her to want to ruin his life though. Just seeing how much fun Jimmy was having?
I can only think of her being angry that she got put in dock review (?).
yeah, that definitely had a part in it but i thought there was something he said or did recently when she wasn't even in the firm anymore. must have been poorly written if nobody can even remember
there was a scene with her and Howard in the courthouse where Howard was telling her that Jimmy had been throwing bowling balls on her car and he was warning her that Jimmy might not be mentally stable. She went off on some schizo rant about how Howard always made things about him and therefore Howard was the one at fault there or some shit.
I think a problem for storytellers is that people in our time just don't have the capacity of seeing female evil. In GOT, Dany was evil long before she burned king's landing. She threatened to burn down all of qarth if she didnt get her way.
Howard was 100% correct about Kim and Jim being soulless as they were trying to destroy him just for an orgasm. And when confronted, they didn't have the courage or integrity to admit things had gotten out of hand.
But then the writers dont get it either. Kim having guilt and repenting for her actions over Howard are very unbelievable.
It's funny how skylar was actually a decent and realistic woman, and people hated her, while kim is nearly an anime character and people think she's a kind of boss b***h.
>that people in our time just don't have the capacity of seeing female evil
only when the women are good looking
"Karens", "Mothers in law", etc are stereotypically evil
Fiction has several "old witch" type evil characters too
Any defense of Skylar is kinda destroyed by the fact she didn't go to the DEA once she learned what Walt was up to, instead she just kinda hung around but was extremely b***hy. Pick one side or the other, instead of some wishy washy deal where it's like "im basically gonna support this but act like a c**t about it"
i think they were trying to imply that she had always resented him while being in the firm. I actually don't remember what triggered her to want to ruin his life though. Just seeing how much fun Jimmy was having?
[...]
I can only think of her being angry that she got put in dock review (?).
Every single time Kim has ever raised her voice against Howard, it was in defense of Jimmy. Chuck had just died and she goes there to yell at Howard and make him cry/feel guilty over the simple act of suggesting Jimmy take a memento from the wreckage.
She felt like he wasn’t treating her as an equal. Jimmy also started to convince her he was worse than he actually was because of his own selfish reasons
Did anyone think the writing and acting was pretty weak during this scene? The guy who played Howard was great, but Bob and Rhea looked stiff and barely had any convincing lines before Lalo showed up. Even when he did it didn't really seem believable, even though I love both actors
yeah, it was obvious their relationship was shit unless they were pulling cons or whatever. she seemed miserable otherwise. the perfect scene to show this was showing them fricking while still on the line when Howard was getting embarrassed during the trial
he later somewhat explained that he resented Howard because he got approval from Chuck and he never did. He wanted to be Howard
It's all to get Kim off. The only reason she is will Jimmy is conning people gets her off.
I think Jimmy started hating Howard after he offered him a job at HHM because he refused to accept that Howard knew he fricked up before and tried to make things right while he never had the courage to do so himself.
It rubbed him off the wrong way to see someone actually try to repent and improve as a human being.
Let's see >Gave Kim a job and mentored her
Good guy >Blamed Kim for Jimmy's mistakes and tried to kill her career
Bad guy >Acted as the bad guy setting Jimmy's career back 4 years
Bad guy >Tried to screw over a bunch of old people simply to get back at Jimmy
Bad guy >Tried to big league Kim when she left his firm
Bad guy >Actively removed Chuck from the firm he founded based on Jimmy gaslighting
Bad guy >Tried to give Jimmy a pity job at HHM
Good guy >Tried to "gotcha" Jimmy and got outplayed
Bad guy
Yeah I'd say Jimmy and Kim gaslighting Howard in to losing his firm was appropriate, he was in the wrong place at the wrong time.
the only butthole move Howard ever did was fricking with Kim's career when he found out she stood by Jimmy's bs.
other than that none of what you mentioned happened the way it did
as the bad guy setting Jimmy's career back 4 years
simply did so on because Chuck told him to and he didn't wish for Jimmy to hear it from his brother directly, in a way he is what kept Jimmy & Chuck's relationship stable
to screw over a bunch of old people simply to get back at Jimmy
He was doing his job to get the case into the best settlement possible, and he made it clear that if the old people wanted to settle right now he would do so, but he knew Jimmy was the one forcing his hand and not the residents.
to big league Kim when she left his firm
He didn't, he wasn't gonna go after Mesa Verde when Kim got them the first time, Chuck is the one who did it.
removed Chuck from the firm he founded based on Jimmy gaslighting
He removed Chuck from the firm because the dude was about to go sue the insurance and drag HHM into it, Howard had what was best for his employees in mind, dude even paid Chuck from his own money & loans just so he wouldn't bankrupt the firm trying to pay him off.
to "gotcha" Jimmy and got outplayed
Jimmy was a piece of shit throughout the whole thing, Howard was simply defending himself and the firm.
bottom line is, Howard was the only good guy in this entire show.
Yeah, it really didn’t need the Breaking Bad type shit but I guess they needed to connect the two series. I loved when the stakes weren’t life and death and it was just Saul scamming people
He took the high road at every opportunity, confronted every challenge head on and kept his dignity and soul intact. Even at the end he was going easy on Jimmy and letting him "fight it out" in the ring because he sympathized with the pain and grief Jimmy was still going through for Chuck. The very pain Howard himself went through before and came out the other side better and stronger.
Howard is there to be a shining light in this story about con-artists and grifters, showing by contrast what pathetic wienerroaches Jimmy and Kim have become as they skulk in the shadows and consort with psychopath serial killers. That's why they hated him, because in him they could see their own failures. Howard's very existence disproved all their excuses and rationalizations for why they should be allowed to lie, cheat and steal.
It's a shame he's gone from the show but if he had to die, then at least he went out like a man - facing his problems head on.
even when Lalo pulled the gun Howard was just about to tell him there's no reason to threaten Kim & Jimmy like that despite all the shit they did to him.
No. Howard literally never did anything wrong, his only sins were usual 1%er type obliviousness and posturing, truly was a good person willing to forgive and forget. That being said he could not have been capped by a more based character and their shared grave is pottery
>he should've sprung Kim from doc review once she brought HHM the Mesa Verde business. Keeping her there was a dick move.
He couldn't. The entire situation with dick review was orchestrated by Chuck, and he was never willing to go against him until it got to the point where he was self destructing the firm he and Howard's father had built.
It was karma. He didn't believe Chuck and fell for Jimmy's tricks, and so no one believed Howard when it was his turn for Jimmy to fake a bunch of bullshit about him. His sin was not giving Chuck the benefit of the doubt.
>he sent kim to doc review so he deserved to get a bullet in the head
why is this place so unhinged even when sincerely discussing the plot, I feel like shitposting has got to your brains that you can't even separate it from your regular thoughts.
It was not fair, NOT fair, I tell ya. What the frick was Jimmy's and Mommy Feet's problem, bullying poor Howard like that. He treated them very fairly, paid for Her Holy Feet's education, tried to be there when his brother died, and even offered promotions to both of them on many ocassions, and yet both of them just treated him like SHIT for NO REASON at all. And then their cowardly asses got him killed by /ourguy/. Goddamn it you stupid pieces of turbid SHIT. How fricking DARE YOU kill Howard.. Frick Jimmy and frick Kim in her sweaty soles and feet.
Wrote themselves into a corner. Howard was not going to let Jim and Kim frick with him. He was going to catch them and out them. Only other choice was to make Howard a total cuck and just take it. Either he had to die, or become a cuck. They decided to give the character some sense dignity and pride before killing him. Now at least Kim is telling the truth.
yes
it was either him or lalo
Jesus Christ, no.
Howard was willing to put the past behind and move forward in life after Chuck's suicide. Jimmy wasn't.
He literally did nothing wrong.
i thought it was kind of a cheap kill tbh. the storyline of ruining his life really didn't have any closure. they easily could have just killed him off without that plotline entirely and it wouldn't have made a difference. Saul and Kim would still have to hide the secret
>the storyline of ruining his life really didn't have any closure
I think that's the point tbh, it was all fun and games until the Lalo thing
I will never understand why Kim went completely "HOWARD MUST DIE" from one moment to the other side to a tiny slight that didn't even concern her, other than "the script says so".
i think they were trying to imply that she had always resented him while being in the firm. I actually don't remember what triggered her to want to ruin his life though. Just seeing how much fun Jimmy was having?
I can only think of her being angry that she got put in dock review (?).
yeah, that definitely had a part in it but i thought there was something he said or did recently when she wasn't even in the firm anymore. must have been poorly written if nobody can even remember
there was a scene with her and Howard in the courthouse where Howard was telling her that Jimmy had been throwing bowling balls on her car and he was warning her that Jimmy might not be mentally stable. She went off on some schizo rant about how Howard always made things about him and therefore Howard was the one at fault there or some shit.
>The face of evil
I think a problem for storytellers is that people in our time just don't have the capacity of seeing female evil. In GOT, Dany was evil long before she burned king's landing. She threatened to burn down all of qarth if she didnt get her way.
Howard was 100% correct about Kim and Jim being soulless as they were trying to destroy him just for an orgasm. And when confronted, they didn't have the courage or integrity to admit things had gotten out of hand.
But then the writers dont get it either. Kim having guilt and repenting for her actions over Howard are very unbelievable.
It's funny how skylar was actually a decent and realistic woman, and people hated her, while kim is nearly an anime character and people think she's a kind of boss b***h.
People hated Skylar because she got in the way of their protagonist/anti-hero. Kim was always an enabler or was exactly like Saul
>that people in our time just don't have the capacity of seeing female evil
only when the women are good looking
"Karens", "Mothers in law", etc are stereotypically evil
Fiction has several "old witch" type evil characters too
Any defense of Skylar is kinda destroyed by the fact she didn't go to the DEA once she learned what Walt was up to, instead she just kinda hung around but was extremely b***hy. Pick one side or the other, instead of some wishy washy deal where it's like "im basically gonna support this but act like a c**t about it"
Every single time Kim has ever raised her voice against Howard, it was in defense of Jimmy. Chuck had just died and she goes there to yell at Howard and make him cry/feel guilty over the simple act of suggesting Jimmy take a memento from the wreckage.
She felt like he wasn’t treating her as an equal. Jimmy also started to convince her he was worse than he actually was because of his own selfish reasons
Technically, no.
based chuckchads, he did nothing wrong.
flashback with these 2 imminent, bros
Top tin breaKing bad universe character
10. Tuco
9. Jesse
8. Gus
7. Lalo
6. Badger
5. Hank
4. Howard
3. Jimmy
2. Walt
1. Chuck
No. He was the best of us
Did anyone think the writing and acting was pretty weak during this scene? The guy who played Howard was great, but Bob and Rhea looked stiff and barely had any convincing lines before Lalo showed up. Even when he did it didn't really seem believable, even though I love both actors
Stop trying to find integrity in Kim Wexler's behavior. She was an evil woman.
true, good thing the b***h is dying next ep
Kim also goaded the Saul Goodman character
He literally did nothing wrong and I never understood why Jimmy's moronic ass was so hellbent on ruining him.
he later somewhat explained that he resented Howard because he got approval from Chuck and he never did. He wanted to be Howard
>i killed Howard and became Saul…because of LE CHUCK xD
Vince is a hack
he became Saul way before that and didn't want or cause Howard to die.
Argh Jimmy it was me all along.
Frick Chuck
It's all to get Kim off. The only reason she is will Jimmy is conning people gets her off.
yeah, it was obvious their relationship was shit unless they were pulling cons or whatever. she seemed miserable otherwise. the perfect scene to show this was showing them fricking while still on the line when Howard was getting embarrassed during the trial
Yes. That was the purpose of the "Something Stupid" montage.
I think Jimmy started hating Howard after he offered him a job at HHM because he refused to accept that Howard knew he fricked up before and tried to make things right while he never had the courage to do so himself.
It rubbed him off the wrong way to see someone actually try to repent and improve as a human being.
this
he's ultimately just seething that howard was able to move on from chuck's death and process the grief like a normal person and he wasn't
Let's see
>Gave Kim a job and mentored her
Good guy
>Blamed Kim for Jimmy's mistakes and tried to kill her career
Bad guy
>Acted as the bad guy setting Jimmy's career back 4 years
Bad guy
>Tried to screw over a bunch of old people simply to get back at Jimmy
Bad guy
>Tried to big league Kim when she left his firm
Bad guy
>Actively removed Chuck from the firm he founded based on Jimmy gaslighting
Bad guy
>Tried to give Jimmy a pity job at HHM
Good guy
>Tried to "gotcha" Jimmy and got outplayed
Bad guy
Yeah I'd say Jimmy and Kim gaslighting Howard in to losing his firm was appropriate, he was in the wrong place at the wrong time.
Howard always wanted Jimmy at the firm, the only one holding it back was Chuck.
Acting as the bad guy was a good guy move, aiming to protect the relationship between Chuck and Jimmy. He paid the price Chuck should have paid.
And he never removed Chuck from the firm. Howard loved Chuck.
Are you sure you watched BCS?
the only butthole move Howard ever did was fricking with Kim's career when he found out she stood by Jimmy's bs.
other than that none of what you mentioned happened the way it did
as the bad guy setting Jimmy's career back 4 years
simply did so on because Chuck told him to and he didn't wish for Jimmy to hear it from his brother directly, in a way he is what kept Jimmy & Chuck's relationship stable
to screw over a bunch of old people simply to get back at Jimmy
He was doing his job to get the case into the best settlement possible, and he made it clear that if the old people wanted to settle right now he would do so, but he knew Jimmy was the one forcing his hand and not the residents.
to big league Kim when she left his firm
He didn't, he wasn't gonna go after Mesa Verde when Kim got them the first time, Chuck is the one who did it.
removed Chuck from the firm he founded based on Jimmy gaslighting
He removed Chuck from the firm because the dude was about to go sue the insurance and drag HHM into it, Howard had what was best for his employees in mind, dude even paid Chuck from his own money & loans just so he wouldn't bankrupt the firm trying to pay him off.
to "gotcha" Jimmy and got outplayed
Jimmy was a piece of shit throughout the whole thing, Howard was simply defending himself and the firm.
bottom line is, Howard was the only good guy in this entire show.
The show sucks for all the bullshit shock value shit they add to it for literally no reason.
Yeah, it really didn’t need the Breaking Bad type shit but I guess they needed to connect the two series. I loved when the stakes weren’t life and death and it was just Saul scamming people
He took the high road at every opportunity, confronted every challenge head on and kept his dignity and soul intact. Even at the end he was going easy on Jimmy and letting him "fight it out" in the ring because he sympathized with the pain and grief Jimmy was still going through for Chuck. The very pain Howard himself went through before and came out the other side better and stronger.
Howard is there to be a shining light in this story about con-artists and grifters, showing by contrast what pathetic wienerroaches Jimmy and Kim have become as they skulk in the shadows and consort with psychopath serial killers. That's why they hated him, because in him they could see their own failures. Howard's very existence disproved all their excuses and rationalizations for why they should be allowed to lie, cheat and steal.
It's a shame he's gone from the show but if he had to die, then at least he went out like a man - facing his problems head on.
even when Lalo pulled the gun Howard was just about to tell him there's no reason to threaten Kim & Jimmy like that despite all the shit they did to him.
No. Howard literally never did anything wrong, his only sins were usual 1%er type obliviousness and posturing, truly was a good person willing to forgive and forget. That being said he could not have been capped by a more based character and their shared grave is pottery
>howard shared his grave with a man with a mustache like a homosexual
pottery
absolutely not , he was one of the few people in the bb universe that didn’t deserve to die
Yes.
- his life was miserable anyway. His wife didn't appreciate him when he was alive, I don't buy her whole grief thing after he died.
- he should've sprung Kim from doc review once she brought HHM the Mesa Verde business. Keeping her there was a dick move.
time for you to stock the fridge, Howard.
>he should've sprung Kim from doc review once she brought HHM the Mesa Verde business. Keeping her there was a dick move.
He couldn't. The entire situation with dick review was orchestrated by Chuck, and he was never willing to go against him until it got to the point where he was self destructing the firm he and Howard's father had built.
She was in doc review for under two weeks.
It was karma. He didn't believe Chuck and fell for Jimmy's tricks, and so no one believed Howard when it was his turn for Jimmy to fake a bunch of bullshit about him. His sin was not giving Chuck the benefit of the doubt.
How many lives has he ruined in his professional life?
I'd say yes
bump
>he sent kim to doc review so he deserved to get a bullet in the head
why is this place so unhinged even when sincerely discussing the plot, I feel like shitposting has got to your brains that you can't even separate it from your regular thoughts.
We're discussing what made her hate him, not if it's reasonable. Women aren't.
It was not fair, NOT fair, I tell ya. What the frick was Jimmy's and Mommy Feet's problem, bullying poor Howard like that. He treated them very fairly, paid for Her Holy Feet's education, tried to be there when his brother died, and even offered promotions to both of them on many ocassions, and yet both of them just treated him like SHIT for NO REASON at all. And then their cowardly asses got him killed by /ourguy/. Goddamn it you stupid pieces of turbid SHIT. How fricking DARE YOU kill Howard.. Frick Jimmy and frick Kim in her sweaty soles and feet.
Yeah he abused Kim and fricked over both Jimmy and Chuck.
yes
Wrote themselves into a corner. Howard was not going to let Jim and Kim frick with him. He was going to catch them and out them. Only other choice was to make Howard a total cuck and just take it. Either he had to die, or become a cuck. They decided to give the character some sense dignity and pride before killing him. Now at least Kim is telling the truth.