about shit you made up about nothing.
What are you actually wanting to criticize that you think is only discussed about in terms of race and sexuality? Got anything to actually say?
Are you just pretending those topics are the only things anyone ever talks about? If you are then you're a retard making shit up.
This is just gonna' be me complaining about myself. I feel like the only way I'm actually going to learn good humor and character is through real life experience and interaction with other people. I can't just keep pulling ideas from comics and cartoons I already engage with because then I'm just making a derivative of someone else's experiences. My own work becomes less authentic as a result and comes off as a wannabe rather than something distinct with it's own identity.
Lack of authenticity and sincerity, poor animation since the students get where they are through networking instead of being good at their craft, an intense fixation on being topical and saying what's in sociopolitical vogue instead of telling a human story, generally poor effort and utter impotent creativity.
It's just a lot easier to point out the race and sexuality stuff since its a common symptom of these things.
>Cheap animation >Awful character design >Terrible story telling, tons of contrived/try hard writing >Playing everything too safe. Not merely in a political way, but in every way you can possibly imagine >Creators don't have drive to be better than this, and black list anyone looking to enter that thinks otherwise >Lack of focus on general/adult audience. The best you get is a project or two. Creators going as far as using the "its just for kids" as an excuse for garbage. This of course leads to more shows that are just babysitters or too juvenile to resonate with anyone.
You should not deny the political aspect of this. The politics of the industry are the partial cause of most of these problems, and is a valid problem in of itself. Ignoring them doesn't fix the industry nor make modern cartoons better.
These 2. It's not like garbage wasn't around back in the day too, but a larger percentage these days is garbage.
Also, back in the day there was no twitter so the creators weren't acting like shitheads in public when people didn't like their cartoons.
>Also, back in the day there was no twitter so the creators weren't acting like shitheads in public when people didn't like their cartoons.
Yeah, this is a big one for me. Seeing animators tell people that their lives are at stake if people don't like a bad cartoon, that all bad cartoons are the result of the evil execs, or that accurately calling a bad cartoon shitty is somehow mentally taxing on the people who made it...sometimes cartoons are just bad. It happens. It's rarely all that personal.
A lot of this is due to Twitter giving immediate feedback on anything, but it's important to remember that Twitter is only a thin slice of the audience - and if it's a kid cartoon, then it's unlikely your audience is there at all (which is why the recent trend of ship-baiting from creators is equally obnoxious - eight year olds watching the show aren't going to care about whether the 'wrong ship' becomes canon or not. You're writing a kids show, not fanfic.)
>Cheap animation >Awful character design >Terrible story telling, tons of contrived/try hard writing >Playing everything too safe. Not merely in a political way, but in every way you can possibly imagine >Creators don't have drive to be better than this, and black list anyone looking to enter that thinks otherwise >Lack of focus on general/adult audience. The best you get is a project or two. Creators going as far as using the "its just for kids" as an excuse for garbage. This of course leads to more shows that are just babysitters or too juvenile to resonate with anyone.
You should not deny the political aspect of this. The politics of the industry are the partial cause of most of these problems, and is a valid problem in of itself. Ignoring them doesn't fix the industry nor make modern cartoons better.
The problem is that politics nowadays aren't even trying to make you join their side, they are just preaching and insults.
A movie that tries to make you a feminist would be something like "removing gender stereotypes would help men too", but what we get is "women are better, incels"
It begun as some sort of headline chasing to get free publicity (i.e. all those "the first x character of Disney") but now I think is in part a subconscious survival tactic because if most working adults find and watch SOL anime it will be the end for original serialized animated content outside Family Guy clones or shows for literal toddlers and right now the anime=hentai and the neo puritan wave in the west are some powerful tools for this goal.
>The industry is filled with executives who only see short term gains and don't try to pursuit having a good relationship with the public and building a strong, long lasting brand. >Creatively, they are filled with academy educated people who believe they need to send a message instead of creating something purely enjoyable. (I did not mention anything you said to not mention) >They only believe they can be successful with children, completely ignore that teens exist, and for adults they think the Family Guy style is all we want.
And this is generally why anime managed to become so popular. They managed to fill niches that western studios never gave a shit about.
Sure.
The visual styles are all homogenous and ugly
The story lines are either overly boring slice of life stories or lore heavy stories that ignore proper character development.
Voice acting has noticeably fallen in quality with little variety or unique characterization
Shows have become more focused on pushing moralistic grand standing rather than just focusing on telling fun character driven plots.
Animation quality has noticeably dropped which is surprising given how much toon boom and adobe animate have progressed as tools.
a weird reason of why I dislike modern cartoons is because of the tonal shifts that happens thats been a trend lately (I say lately, but I guess maybe older cartoons was like this too just havent really remembered much of them). like the first season starts off as filler, happy and light hearted slice of life show then about 30 episodes later the plot kicks in and now everything becomes darker, theres more drama, more action, etc. whats up with that? on the top of my head I can refer to >Steven Universe >regular Show >Owl House >Gravity falls >Star Vs >Amphibia >adventure time
and probably some more. am I the only one that kind of dislike these tonal shifts? or im just being a pedantic shmuck?
I don't like it either. I think they're trying to have their cake and eat it too by having light hearted comedy and dramatic stories but they don't know how to balance it.
These came out right after the era episodic shows were the norm in western animation. I guess they had to start like that to be picked up by the network, and only after success could start the plot.
No you're right. With Amphibia and Star Vs. I remember it being done well in Season 1 but both ended up having more bitten off than what could be chewed in terms of upping the stakes.
Sure!
So as of late, modern cartoons have many problems, I’ll express a few now:
1. Corporate minimalism. Cartoons have switched to the puppet rigging workflow more often then not, and that has bred a generation that value very similar looking, very low detail designs. Contrast that with the 90’s and you’ll see that stylistic diversity has decreased tremendously.
2. The aforementioned puppet rig workflow also significantly devolves the ability for animators to be expressive in their character animation. The “acting” is typically canned and predictable, as are the layouts of scenes. Flat, static and samey.
3. The writers are in a hyper insulated culture, and the sensibilities of those writers are relatively out of touch with most of the world. Regardless of political aspects, this effects a sense of humor and character.
In short, western animation is remarkably one note, due to the cost cutting measures of upper management taking advantage of new technology, and the relative homogeneity of the type of people writing them.
>The writers are in a hyper insulated culture
I guess this is the result of the writers being all college educated middle-to-upper class people from very few geographic regions.
There is a billion stories about "being yourself", but few were they touch on the reality of this.
>Utter condescension towards the audience, especially for reboots, remakes, and reEEEEEE >Great setup, low payoff >Juggling between being kiddie and being dark >Writers who like the idea of certain tropes more than making it all fit together >Animation still being treated as primarily for kids >Adult animation fearing creativity and needing to copy what ever was successful last year
No. All Amerimutt media always one sideadly praise your mutt cartoons. If you criticise it you are racist, sexist, far rights, anti lgbt etc. Also they think anime is always far inferior to mutt garbage toons and morally wrong lol Fucking Amerimutts are literal cultureless subhumans.
Modern cartoons don't look to be entertaining, they want to be the anime the writers and animators think they're so special for watching and have long narratives with relationships and drama but can't grasp that's not what everyone else wants. No one wants to make an episodic gagcentric cartoons that exist just to be entertaining for about 20 something minutes like Rocko's Modern Life or Beavis and Butthead.
>they want to be the anime the writers and animators think they're so special for watching and have long narratives with relationships and drama but can't grasp that's not what everyone else wants
No the problem is they don't even know how to do that right. Like how many shows actually did it correctly? I can think of Avatar and Teen Titans and that's about it.
They all look like bargain bin trash trying to hit that same kids-appeal style, there isn't anything like EEnE or KND anymore, it's all references to "old thing" that was good for remakes and reboots and shitty writing reinforcing the "it's for kids so it's okay if it sucks" mentality
Severe lack of diversity and creativity. With cartoons you usually get it in two flavours - kiddie slice of life or brainless fighting capeshit / fantasy shit
While with anime / manga, just off the top of my head we get : am i kawaii uguu shit, brainless fighting shonen shit, mystery solving detective shit, NEET shit, sport jock shit, card game shit, cooking shit, gambling addict shit, so and so and so and so. At the end of the day, all people only want is to be entertained and modern cartoons fail at that.
this anon gets it, the west only has 2 genres of animation: kiddy shit or "le mature show because the guy said fuck" oh and I guess "teen/tween muh lore 2deep4u that wishes it was anime with the gay thrown in for virtue signalling/circle jerking/self insert simping" but that's hardly a genre worth acknowledging.
seriously, even isukai kysoge is more creative then 90% of what the west shits out and I say that as someone who destests most weeb shit.
this anon gets it, the west only has 2 genres of animation: kiddy shit or "le mature show because the guy said fuck" oh and I guess "teen/tween muh lore 2deep4u that wishes it was anime with the gay thrown in for virtue signalling/circle jerking/self insert simping" but that's hardly a genre worth acknowledging.
seriously, even isukai kysoge is more creative then 90% of what the west shits out and I say that as someone who destests most weeb shit.
I don't like the style of comedy where you can tell everything is trying to be a reaction gif. You know, characters cheerfully declaring "I've been traumatized!" and unfunny shit like that.
Lack of soul and no real bonds with characters. When I watched ATLA I deeply cared about Aang, Zuko, Katara and the rest and was really unnerving about their fate. When I watched Gravity Falls I didn't give a fuck about anybody maybe except Stan and Dipper. They could just fuckin die any moment and I'd just laugh
Politics are part of the reason why, yes. However, it’s also because of nepotism. A small group of talentless tumblr-sequels artists and animators get their shows greenlit all the time. If you are not in the clique, you are no one.
Low effort
I'm trying to have a conversation dude.
No, that's my criticism. Modern media is exceedingly low effort
about shit you made up about nothing.
What are you actually wanting to criticize that you think is only discussed about in terms of race and sexuality? Got anything to actually say?
Are you just pretending those topics are the only things anyone ever talks about? If you are then you're a retard making shit up.
Cinemaphile is extremely superficial
This is just gonna' be me complaining about myself. I feel like the only way I'm actually going to learn good humor and character is through real life experience and interaction with other people. I can't just keep pulling ideas from comics and cartoons I already engage with because then I'm just making a derivative of someone else's experiences. My own work becomes less authentic as a result and comes off as a wannabe rather than something distinct with it's own identity.
Because of naggers and homosexuals.
Shut up Double D, homosexuality IS legit criticism. Honestly, you are worst ed. Go back to voting for a piece of wood over best ed.
Don't be woodist
Lack of authenticity and sincerity, poor animation since the students get where they are through networking instead of being good at their craft, an intense fixation on being topical and saying what's in sociopolitical vogue instead of telling a human story, generally poor effort and utter impotent creativity.
It's just a lot easier to point out the race and sexuality stuff since its a common symptom of these things.
These 2. It's not like garbage wasn't around back in the day too, but a larger percentage these days is garbage.
Also, back in the day there was no twitter so the creators weren't acting like shitheads in public when people didn't like their cartoons.
>Also, back in the day there was no twitter so the creators weren't acting like shitheads in public when people didn't like their cartoons.
Yeah, this is a big one for me. Seeing animators tell people that their lives are at stake if people don't like a bad cartoon, that all bad cartoons are the result of the evil execs, or that accurately calling a bad cartoon shitty is somehow mentally taxing on the people who made it...sometimes cartoons are just bad. It happens. It's rarely all that personal.
A lot of this is due to Twitter giving immediate feedback on anything, but it's important to remember that Twitter is only a thin slice of the audience - and if it's a kid cartoon, then it's unlikely your audience is there at all (which is why the recent trend of ship-baiting from creators is equally obnoxious - eight year olds watching the show aren't going to care about whether the 'wrong ship' becomes canon or not. You're writing a kids show, not fanfic.)
>eight year olds watching the show aren't going to care about whether the 'wrong ship' becomes canon or not.
You are getting out-of-touch, anon
>Cheap animation
>Awful character design
>Terrible story telling, tons of contrived/try hard writing
>Playing everything too safe. Not merely in a political way, but in every way you can possibly imagine
>Creators don't have drive to be better than this, and black list anyone looking to enter that thinks otherwise
>Lack of focus on general/adult audience. The best you get is a project or two. Creators going as far as using the "its just for kids" as an excuse for garbage. This of course leads to more shows that are just babysitters or too juvenile to resonate with anyone.
You should not deny the political aspect of this. The politics of the industry are the partial cause of most of these problems, and is a valid problem in of itself. Ignoring them doesn't fix the industry nor make modern cartoons better.
Politics have their role in culture and media but something about it these days is on obnoxious and overbearing.
The problem is that politics nowadays aren't even trying to make you join their side, they are just preaching and insults.
A movie that tries to make you a feminist would be something like "removing gender stereotypes would help men too", but what we get is "women are better, incels"
No they don’t. Politics need to die.
It begun as some sort of headline chasing to get free publicity (i.e. all those "the first x character of Disney") but now I think is in part a subconscious survival tactic because if most working adults find and watch SOL anime it will be the end for original serialized animated content outside Family Guy clones or shows for literal toddlers and right now the anime=hentai and the neo puritan wave in the west are some powerful tools for this goal.
>The industry is filled with executives who only see short term gains and don't try to pursuit having a good relationship with the public and building a strong, long lasting brand.
>Creatively, they are filled with academy educated people who believe they need to send a message instead of creating something purely enjoyable. (I did not mention anything you said to not mention)
>They only believe they can be successful with children, completely ignore that teens exist, and for adults they think the Family Guy style is all we want.
And this is generally why anime managed to become so popular. They managed to fill niches that western studios never gave a shit about.
Sure.
The visual styles are all homogenous and ugly
The story lines are either overly boring slice of life stories or lore heavy stories that ignore proper character development.
Voice acting has noticeably fallen in quality with little variety or unique characterization
Shows have become more focused on pushing moralistic grand standing rather than just focusing on telling fun character driven plots.
Animation quality has noticeably dropped which is surprising given how much toon boom and adobe animate have progressed as tools.
>tell me why this show sucks
>okay, here you go
>no i want a different answer
a weird reason of why I dislike modern cartoons is because of the tonal shifts that happens thats been a trend lately (I say lately, but I guess maybe older cartoons was like this too just havent really remembered much of them). like the first season starts off as filler, happy and light hearted slice of life show then about 30 episodes later the plot kicks in and now everything becomes darker, theres more drama, more action, etc. whats up with that? on the top of my head I can refer to
>Steven Universe
>regular Show
>Owl House
>Gravity falls
>Star Vs
>Amphibia
>adventure time
and probably some more. am I the only one that kind of dislike these tonal shifts? or im just being a pedantic shmuck?
I'm sure Regular Show took way more than one season for that.
I don't like it either. I think they're trying to have their cake and eat it too by having light hearted comedy and dramatic stories but they don't know how to balance it.
These came out right after the era episodic shows were the norm in western animation. I guess they had to start like that to be picked up by the network, and only after success could start the plot.
No you're right. With Amphibia and Star Vs. I remember it being done well in Season 1 but both ended up having more bitten off than what could be chewed in terms of upping the stakes.
Sure!
So as of late, modern cartoons have many problems, I’ll express a few now:
1. Corporate minimalism. Cartoons have switched to the puppet rigging workflow more often then not, and that has bred a generation that value very similar looking, very low detail designs. Contrast that with the 90’s and you’ll see that stylistic diversity has decreased tremendously.
2. The aforementioned puppet rig workflow also significantly devolves the ability for animators to be expressive in their character animation. The “acting” is typically canned and predictable, as are the layouts of scenes. Flat, static and samey.
3. The writers are in a hyper insulated culture, and the sensibilities of those writers are relatively out of touch with most of the world. Regardless of political aspects, this effects a sense of humor and character.
In short, western animation is remarkably one note, due to the cost cutting measures of upper management taking advantage of new technology, and the relative homogeneity of the type of people writing them.
>The writers are in a hyper insulated culture
I guess this is the result of the writers being all college educated middle-to-upper class people from very few geographic regions.
There is a billion stories about "being yourself", but few were they touch on the reality of this.
>Utter condescension towards the audience, especially for reboots, remakes, and reEEEEEE
>Great setup, low payoff
>Juggling between being kiddie and being dark
>Writers who like the idea of certain tropes more than making it all fit together
>Animation still being treated as primarily for kids
>Adult animation fearing creativity and needing to copy what ever was successful last year
Quips. Endless quips.
No. All Amerimutt media always one sideadly praise your mutt cartoons. If you criticise it you are racist, sexist, far rights, anti lgbt etc. Also they think anime is always far inferior to mutt garbage toons and morally wrong lol Fucking Amerimutts are literal cultureless subhumans.
Sovless
Modern cartoons don't look to be entertaining, they want to be the anime the writers and animators think they're so special for watching and have long narratives with relationships and drama but can't grasp that's not what everyone else wants. No one wants to make an episodic gagcentric cartoons that exist just to be entertaining for about 20 something minutes like Rocko's Modern Life or Beavis and Butthead.
>they want to be the anime the writers and animators think they're so special for watching and have long narratives with relationships and drama but can't grasp that's not what everyone else wants
No the problem is they don't even know how to do that right. Like how many shows actually did it correctly? I can think of Avatar and Teen Titans and that's about it.
Too much digital puppet tool motion tweening shit
It's the modern equivalent of what Hanna-Barbera did in the 60s.
They all look like bargain bin trash trying to hit that same kids-appeal style, there isn't anything like EEnE or KND anymore, it's all references to "old thing" that was good for remakes and reboots and shitty writing reinforcing the "it's for kids so it's okay if it sucks" mentality
Severe lack of diversity and creativity. With cartoons you usually get it in two flavours - kiddie slice of life or brainless fighting capeshit / fantasy shit
While with anime / manga, just off the top of my head we get : am i kawaii uguu shit, brainless fighting shonen shit, mystery solving detective shit, NEET shit, sport jock shit, card game shit, cooking shit, gambling addict shit, so and so and so and so. At the end of the day, all people only want is to be entertained and modern cartoons fail at that.
It was always like that
companies refuse to accept the fact that cartoons for adults can be done well or be different from american dad or family guy
CEOs fuck with shit and sabotage everything. they've been doing it for literally decades
this anon gets it, the west only has 2 genres of animation: kiddy shit or "le mature show because the guy said fuck" oh and I guess "teen/tween muh lore 2deep4u that wishes it was anime with the gay thrown in for virtue signalling/circle jerking/self insert simping" but that's hardly a genre worth acknowledging.
seriously, even isukai kysoge is more creative then 90% of what the west shits out and I say that as someone who destests most weeb shit.
I don't like the style of comedy where you can tell everything is trying to be a reaction gif. You know, characters cheerfully declaring "I've been traumatized!" and unfunny shit like that.
It's way more cynical than it used to be.
Lack of soul and no real bonds with characters. When I watched ATLA I deeply cared about Aang, Zuko, Katara and the rest and was really unnerving about their fate. When I watched Gravity Falls I didn't give a fuck about anybody maybe except Stan and Dipper. They could just fuckin die any moment and I'd just laugh
> Do legit criticism exist for modern cartoons?
>No not those criticisms they're too offensive for me.
Politics are part of the reason why, yes. However, it’s also because of nepotism. A small group of talentless tumblr-sequels artists and animators get their shows greenlit all the time. If you are not in the clique, you are no one.