Dragon Ball Z Kai

>worse music
>bad filler still kept in
>good filler cut
>horrible redraws
>"better" voice acting with less iconic script
Who would ever watch this over the original? People with extremely low attention spans?

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  1. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Weebs cannot fathom an adaptation being different or adding to the story, it must all follow the manga even though manga is made by burnt out tired frickers who have no time to properly plan their stories
    O plus binge watching culture

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      https://i.imgur.com/pfqSibq.jpeg

      >worse music
      >bad filler still kept in
      >good filler cut
      >horrible redraws
      >"better" voice acting with less iconic script
      Who would ever watch this over the original? People with extremely low attention spans?

      You're insane. The pacing in the original DBZ anime is so bad that it's practically a joke, a soap opera. Kai's not perfect but at least being paced more similarly to the manga allows some of it's best aspects to shine through.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        The Namek saga still takes way too long in Kai. 15 episodes just for fighting Frieza, 10 of which are during the "five minute countdown" before Namek explodes. A lot of that runtime is the Z fighters standing around talking with Frieza.
        Piccolo and Goku learning to drive is the best episode of the anime

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Just don't binge it, watch a few episodes at a time. It's never going to be as exciting as the first time but the extended version feels like a proper epic.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        The best aspects of dbz were the soulful slice of life and side adventure stuff that showed what was at stake when the big boss bad came to destroy it. In kai, you lose about 90% of character development and interaction.

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Completely disagree. DB is the prototype for HxH and OP, and that's completely lost when there's endless filler. The arcs are tightly paced and incredibly tense. Adding in tons of bullshit only hurts that. The slice of life stuff was lame as frick and I'm tired of people pretending it was soulful. I watched it as it aired and it was excruciating.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >The slice of life stuff was lame as frick and I'm tired of people pretending it was soulful
            That's just a bad take.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >DB is the prototype for HxH and OP
            this isn't a good thing lmao.
            >I watched it as it aired and it was excruciating.
            If you're watching shonen intensely past the age of 16 your brain is mush. It's one thing to have childhood favorites or casually following them, but holding them in high regard outside of occasional entertainment is moronic.

  2. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Just read the manga. The DBZ anime is torturously slow.

  3. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Better question: When are we going to get a good video release of DBZ?

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      The blu ray levels sets were the closet to the definitive release but funi canned them

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Smeared garbage full of recolors and cgi redraws.

  4. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    It has half the amount of episodes (ie: they cut all the filler)

  5. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    I can't keep up with all the different versions. I watched the one that was on toonami in like 2001. It was kino.

  6. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >watching Dragon Ball dubbed
    lmao morons

    The only correct way to watch is by watching DBZ and in it's original language where it isn't censored to shit and all the actors are professionals and not the voice director's cousins who were basically given the job.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >granny goku
      No thanks

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Granny Frieza is the dub was based though, made him far more alien. They ruined his voice in kai and super.

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Literally no one agrees with this. The guy who they got for Kai and Super (who's now dead) is one of the few redeemable changes. They literally found a guy who could replicated sound and cadence of the Jap actor who voices Frieza. It was probably some of the best casting of any dub ever. The old lady who voiced Frieza originally was Tien's mom irl. That's why she got the job and she sucked at it.

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          I feel the same way, it made him eerie and bizarre. The Kai dub VA is just a gay guy.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        She's been the ONLY voice of Goku since he was a child. If you start from the beginning, the transition from child to adult as well as the evolution of the voice is literally a non-issue. You only have this problem because your bias and are unfamiliar with the canon voice for long stretches of time.

        There ain't no way anyone could unironically make the argument than some tuba player who wasn't even an actor and passes out in the voiceover booth from screaming too hard because he's too moronic to know how to project volume into a microphone without hurting himself could possibly be a better option than a lady who's been doing professional voice over work since the days of the original Astro Boy. The performances are night and day.

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >transitions
          From sounding like a woman pretending to be a little boy to an old lady. Her voice for Goku gets objectively worse as time goes on, and only wapanese redditors think otherwise. You did not watch DBZ back in the day, you have no connection to the franchise. You're the sort of gay that tries to argue that subbed Pokemon is better than dubbed. Begone

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >From sounding like a woman pretending to be a little boy to an old lady
            homie is literally complaining about females voicing little boys as well lmao
            >Her voice for Goku gets objectively worse as time goes on
            Not even this is true. Go look at her performance as Goku Black in DBS and you can clearly hear how versatile she is as an actor even to this day.
            >You did not watch DBZ back in the day, you have no connection to the franchise.
            I watched that shit every weekday afternoon right after school on cartoon network in the early 00's before you were even born. I grew up with that dub. I'm an adult now though. I stopped liking garbage and now only enjoy pieces of art how they are intended to be viewed. Why the frick would I still be watching hammy censored westernized dialogue? Makes no sense.
            >You're the sort of gay that tries to argue that subbed Pokemon is better than dubbed.
            That's a non-argument. First of all, you'd be a homosexual to unironically watch Pokemon as an adult period regardless of language.

            • 2 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              not that anon but you sound pretentious and he probably got tired of arguing with a brick wall. he wasn't complaining about her sounding like a kid. he was complaining that even though she changes her voice for adult goku she has no right voicing a male in his 30s and 40s. it doesn't sound good. sorry

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >he was complaining that even though she changes her voice for adult goku she has no right voicing a male in his 30s and 40s. it doesn't sound good. sorry
                so you don't actually have a good defense for the dumb shit he said or an actual rebuttal for the point he was trying to make and instead only want to emphasize the fact that you agree with him because you think a voice actor has no right to voice a character because of gender and age? That's a terrible argument. With that logic, people shouldn't be allowed to voice animals cartoons. It's never been about the voice itself, it's about the performance. Nobody plays that character better than Nozawa. We're talking 40 years of her voicing Goku. That's the voice people associate with that character. Just because you have a bias against something you're not use to hearing, doesn't mean it's inherently worse. You don't have to be pretentious to point out someone being stupid about something they clearly have no knowledge about.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                The funniest part is Toriyama is the one who handpicked her to do the voice and was his decision to keep her. Suddenly we're going to go against the man who created everything?

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >Suddenly we're going to go against the man who created everything?
                Sure, there's plenty of media where I'm not privy to the choices and opinions of the creators that I can enjoy independently of the creator's thoughts. Just because the creator wants it a certain way doesn't mean I'll enjoy it too.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                but it worked though. DBZ became a massive multi-million dollar franchise even before it hit the States. If the voice didn't work, it would have been canceled after the first season or they would have replaced.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        American DBZ has 80's cartoon dubbing. It's awful.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Yeah no, the faulconer dub is fricking great. Someone needs to cut that up and fix the pacing and filler. The soundtrack is fricking amazing.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Someone did make a faulconer score for Kai. I have it somewhere on my computer. It's on the kanzenshuu forums. Another person is also making their own version, having started in March of 2024 but hasn't done the complete series yet. The 2017 version has all the saga's re scored.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous
    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >granny Goku
      No

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      ENG dub DBZ is canon

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        I'm also a troony BTW, not sure if that's important...

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          ...is what I would say if I liked the japanese voices.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        I'm also a troony BTW, not sure if that's important...

        ...is what I would say if I liked the japanese voices.

        >dubgay is a schizo
        figures

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      DBZ is the only anime I prefer in Dub

  7. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Blue Popo is it's greatest sin

  8. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    the reanimated/newly animated scenes and cells stick out like a sore thumb.

    That + Kid Gohan's new English voice convinced me to never ever watch it.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      You think kid gohan's voice is bad? Wait until Daima comes out and they have a completely different actor than the lady who voiced Goku originally. Just another reason to stick with the sub.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        This assumes that I'm going to watch Daipa.

        The premise is shit nostalgiabait and the designs/proportions of the kid characters look horrible (sorry Toriyama)

        Never watched Super Hero slop either. I'll just wait for Moro to get his anime adaptation and if that never happens well then I guess I'm done with DB

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >The premise is shit nostalgiabait
          It's literally an animation project for the 40th anniversary of the manga and the last canon piece of Dragon Ball written by Toriyama.
          >I'll just wait for Moro to get his anime adaptation and if that never happens well then I guess I'm done with DB
          so you wont watch Daima but you'll watch an adaption of a generic arc that was written and designed by Toyotaro? What sense does that make?

  9. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >dubgays will defend this

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      KINO

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      absolute fricking kino

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        This is how mexicans sound trying to speak english. No wonder DBZ is so popular down there.

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          It was already popular in Mexico long before it was ever made in English.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >completely change the script for no reason
      why did they do this? Why the frick are they talking about shoes? Are they moronic?

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Japan also changes their dubs of kids shows to appeal to what they think kids over there will like.
        Dragon Ball Z was airing between dumb kid's cartoons so they added stupid humor

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >Dragon Ball Z was airing between dumb kid's cartoons so they added stupid humor
          Yeah because DB never canonically had stupid humor. Surely the entire franchise wasn't written by a literal gag manga artist.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Wow the animation sucks. And people complain about Super.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >Wow the animation sucks
        >And people complain about Super.
        dont be disingenuous

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >Super animation

          The Tournament of Power arc had better animation than DBZ.
          DBZ was extremely inconsistent.
          Inb4 cherrypicking

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >Inb4 cherrypicking
            You mean exactly like what you did by specifically naming the ToP which only features some inconsistent moments of good animation? You literally had to name the ONLY arc that had any good animation at all aside from the final Zamasu fight just to try and prove a point.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      This is how mexicans sound trying to speak english. No wonder DBZ is so popular down there.

      >completely change the script for no reason
      why did they do this? Why the frick are they talking about shoes? Are they moronic?

      >gag manga that became a gag anime has a silly childish moments
      wow so shocked

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >gag manga that became a gag anime has a silly childish moments
        Are you moronic? What the frick does that have to do with anything?

  10. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Is he still /ourguy/

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Faulconer + George Lucas + The T-rex are three things nu-lib gays have been trying to desecrate hard for years but none can be besmirched.

  11. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >subgays have an absolute meltdown when you point out that they're newbies
    Every single time

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      You have no argument and this what you're resorting to now

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Nobody presented me with any arguments, why should I?

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >Nobody presented me with any arguments
          because you have none

  12. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Should I get Dragon Ball on Blu Ray or DVD?

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Get the french blu ray of DB
      Get the Dragon Box DVDs of DBZ I guess. Avoid the orange brick sets at all costs.

  13. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    I pity anyone that didn't watch DBZ when it originally aired on CN/Toonami. You might as well never even bother watching. You'll never experience it as a child and being one of your formative animes. It's sad to think what people have now is shit like Kai, arguments about which dub, if sub or dub, which boxset to get. All that nonsense that will never recreate coming home after school and being so hyped with all the promos Toonami would do, all the specials they'd throw during holidays. Watching the DBZ movies.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >I pity anyone that didn't watch DBZ when it originally aired on CN/Toonami.
      Which is great until you try listening to it now..

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      I pitt you toonami kids that got it after we did.

  14. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Saiyan Saga kai is worse, namek saga kai is better, android/Cell saga both are equally good for different reasons and it's more about preference. Haven't seen "The next chapters" but I remember the last time I rewatched the whole thing in the original funi dub I noticed that buu saga is when the voice acting, art style and animation really hit its peak. I don't think kai was necessary for buu saga.

  15. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >Super animation

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous
      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous
    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Do you have any more of these?

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        I have one for GT

  16. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Just read the manga. The pacing in the anime is absolute trash.

  17. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    super fricking sucks ass even the tournament of power barely had any real fight scenes in it. The best arc was somehow the zamasu arc.

  18. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous
  19. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Now compare to Chad Z

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous
  20. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    classic dragon ball is the only good dragon ball

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      The King Piccolo arc is arguably just as good as Frieza.

  21. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Having to keep so much padding makes it unwatchable. It's an idea that only works in theory. Either nut up and watch the original or learn to read.

  22. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Faulconer OST makes the original dub of the show unwatchable. It's so fricking annoying.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Its better than some jap with a fricking kazoo

  23. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    post 'em
    https://tiermaker.com/create/dragon-ball-arcs-12120

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      I don't even understand this. Why create mini arcs inside arcs and sitinguish them? Like why the frick does the Uub shit needs it's own slot? It's 3 episodes. Just count it as part of the Buu saga. Also why is RRA arc on there twice?

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >uub
        not sure honestly. goku being a legitimate psychopath on the uub fight was hilarious, though.
        >why is RRA arc on there twice?
        because it's long as hell and varies way too hard on quality. also it's there three times: commander blue (legitimately the worst miniarc), the ice village, and the actual RRA fight.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >Ginyu job sqaud and Baba Monster Mash Tournament
      >better than Raditz, Nappa, and Vegeta

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        baba doesn't drag on like the rest of the tournaments in DB. but yes, saiyan should be higher. maybe in middle of A

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >baba doesn't drag on like the rest of the tournaments in DB
          The first fight is literally filler, then a jobber invisible man gag character, then a mummy, and then another jobber. The only part of the entire tournament that had ANY purpose to it was Grandpa Gohan. Literally no one would put that ahead of both the 22nd and the 23rd Tenkaichi tournament. No one.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            not every fight has to be serious. this is dragon ball, after all. i like my silly fights

            • 2 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              but the fights weren't memorable. Name one interesting element to those Baba fights aside from Bulma's breasts.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                devilman and grandpa gohan

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                You're just naming characters and not mentioning the reasons that made them good. The Gohan stuff is good for the emotional aspects. Devilman on the other hand didn't do shit. He was weak and his ONE attack didn't even work against Goku. How is that interesting?

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                his power is cool

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >The only part of the entire tournament that had ANY purpose to it was Grandpa Gohan.
            Having a single memorable moment at least puts it above Tienshit

            • 2 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              >Having a single memorable moment at least puts it above Tienshit
              No that's just moronic. The Tien fights in DB are better in every single way and are some of the best fights in the whole franchise.

  24. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >re-watch dbz clips on youtube
    >most of them are from the absolutely disgusting and garbage Kai version
    I HATE IT I HATE IT I HATE IT I HATE IT I HATE IT I HATE IT

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      VEGETA THAT'S ENOUGH
      WATER YOU DOING

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      then stop watch dub shit.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Frick you homosexual. English dub with falconer soundtrack is LITERALLY the only way to watch dbz. This isn't up for debate.

  25. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >watching DBZ dubbed

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      i love how much shit they just make up on the fly in the dub

  26. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Because the original is legitimately unwatchable. Manga is still 100x superior anyway.

  27. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Reading is for losers.
    Why would i waste my time to read a series and look at still images when i can watch something in color without words at the bottom of the screen and not get horrendously bored?
    My brain is far too fast and too big for reading for "entertainment".

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >all this coming from a Jirengay
      Just another manlet who's use to losing I guess.

  28. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    This is all you need to know which version is the best.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      damn the sub still gives me chills.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >release everything Gohan, remember all the pain he's caused, all the people he hurt
      Why does the dub always have to add the corniest dialogue

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >telling him to build up his anger from all the bad shit Cell did
        >corny
        I mean, it's not too different from the manga in my opinion. And it fit with Gohan keeping his emotions in. Telling him to think of how fricked things are reminds Gohan he's the last hope.

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          No that's moronic. Goku was trying to tap into Gohan's saiyan instinct to survive and overcome the enemy by unleashing his full power. ONLY in the dub did they try to make it about some emotional attachment regarding how he's hurting people. We already had the big dramatic moment with Android 16 which made him go SS2. By the end, it wasn't about anyone else anymore.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            But Gohan was always a kind-hearted kid, it does kind of seem in line with his character. Yeah, his saiyan instinct to survive and kick ass is there, but we also already saw that when he first turned SS2 when he just killed the cell jr.'s ruthlessly and made Cell his b***h. Everything was riding on Gohan, and he shit the bed in big moments 90% of the time before so it just makes sense it was now or never. To prove he deserved to be called a saiyan AND to not let his friends down. Remember,
            >let's down Piccolo & Krillin against Nappa
            >let's down Krillin against Frieza
            He does have redeeming moments like Raditz and when he actually does go after Frieza, but always freaked out when it really mattered most before Cell. Hell, he even blew it in the 1st round against Cell.

            • 2 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              I would be more lenient towards that direction in regards to Gohan if it wasn't for the fact the dub does the same exact thing for Goku by changing his character to be this more overly concerned guy who cares about the safety of other people when canonically he cares more about fighting strong opponents and is willing to put his planet and even the universe in danger just for the sake of a battle. It's why I simply want them to follow the manga dialogue exactly when it comes to the anime instead of changing it like that corny line from Goku when trying to get Gohan to unleash his power. It's not something Goku would say in that moment nor is it something he did say in the official print. He canonically wasn't trying to tap into Gohan's emotions by using the pain and suffering of other people. That never happened.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Yeah, I've heard manga Goku is more in it for the fights and Toriyama just saw Goku as a fighter, not an "ally to good", lol. I haven't read the manga but I know it's supposed to be better, I just haven't gotten around to it. I think I mainly prefer the anime version because Goku was one for the first badass heroes I ever saw/remember and the TV version's corniness fit my type of humor. I know now it's kinda lame, but I'll take it over a lot of other things to watch.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Yeah, I've heard manga Goku is more in it for the fights and Toriyama just saw Goku as a fighter, not an "ally to good", lol. I haven't read the manga but I know it's supposed to be better, I just haven't gotten around to it. I think I mainly prefer the anime version because Goku was one for the first badass heroes I ever saw/remember and the TV version's corniness fit my type of humor. I know now it's kinda lame, but I'll take it over a lot of other things to watch.

                This was never true. Even in the original manga goku cared about helping people. His innate goodness is what allows him to train with King Kai in the afterlife and is why he can use the spirit bomb.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                No YOU'RE wrong. Goku doesn't inherently give a shit about anybody really.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous
    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Subgays got real quiet after this dropped

      ?si=_XBLbJsM8euL94vi

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >subgays
        >posts music
        lmao moron

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Problem?

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      sub is of course the most faithful

  29. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    MYSTERIES ABOUND
    MADE OF A DEEP ENERGY

  30. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    asiatic pedophilia. Keep it on Cinemaphile.

  31. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    I miss the real Broly, bros.

    ?si=wTWT-qs6YBqrkdKh

  32. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    American Super Saiyan Vegeta Theme

    Japanese Super Saiyan Vegeta Theme

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Its better than some jap with a fricking kazoo

      same person

  33. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Kai is awful

  34. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    They had a marathon of Kai on Nickelodeon forever ago and I binged it then. That was the only time I watched it and all it made me do is want to watch the original again.
    >lame opening
    >some characters had different VAs and it was jarring hearing it the first time
    >looks almost too neat, didn't have the same gritty animation
    >no driving episode
    One and done for me. I'm watching the Blu-ray brick set and yes, it's shit because the aspect ratio and looks too neat as well, but it's one of the only ways to have the Falcouner soundtrack on legitimate discs for the series it seems. Also,
    >my face when Krillin jobs in every single movie

  35. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    For me, it's Kai with the original Japanese score

  36. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    one of the best OPs in all of anime
    i cant speak for the show itself, i only read the manga and saw clips over the years.
    but dragon soul is fricking kino
    ILL GIVE YOU LOVe
    YOU GIVE ME STRENGTH
    THATS HOW WELL LIVE

  37. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >Make Kai, literally a straight adaptation of the manga with almost no filler
    >People still b***h and whine and say that the original is better

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >Make Kai, literally a straight adaptation of the manga
      except it's not

  38. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    finally someone said it
    The Kai version definitely seemed more "professional" without weird/goofs, but the original version was very soulful

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >finally someone said it
      what do you mean? Most people agree that Z is better.

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