Few things have done more catastrophic damage to media discussion and the public conscious' understanding of fiction than this fricking site.
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Few things have done more catastrophic damage to media discussion and the public conscious' understanding of fiction than this fricking site.
elaborate on that
1. It breaks down the art of storytelling into a sterile soulless checklist of building blocks of trivia, which is the absolute worst approach you can have to anything related to writing.
2. It enables midwits to pretentiously and obnoxiously pontificate about their stunted understanding of storytelling (see point 1) and lets them think themselves as enlightened for "getting" it. And because most people aren't as 'literate' in their meaningless jargon it gives them an aura of validity and superior understanding they don't have.
3. Both of the points above filter down from online discussion to the public unconscious, which in turn distorts the average person's understanding of what a story is, further pushing down to the lowest common denominator.
It is an unrivaled guide in organizing categorization of trends throughout history however
It is but man does it suck the life out of art and creating.
.
...that's called the scientific method, numbnut
No it's not. Not even close.
>The six steps of the scientific method include:
>1) asking a question about something you observe,
>2) doing background research to learn what is already known about the topic,
>3) constructing a hypothesis,
>4) experimenting to test the hypothesis,
>5) analyzing the data from the experiment and drawing conclusions, and
>6) communicating the results to others.
Tell me then, if what tvtropes does is also similar to this method.
Not saying your wrong, but are there any examples of people using tv tropes in that way when it comes to media discussion?
Storytelling was always a process of remixing, reinterpratating and retelling archetypal narratives. All tvtropes is a dorky millenial nerd site that catalogued a bunch of those archetypes into one website written like an episode of buffy the vampire slayer. Its pretty useful for amateur writers or genre fans because it lets you get further recommendations based on how it handled its tropes. Theres a reason so many people liked to paw through it while taking a dump.
To the extent its polluted by pedantic autists who have put the formal use of tvtropes language over any actual substance, you find those same NPCs in every community. How many empty minds here just mindlessly chant words and phrases they were taught by other half understanding anons? Entire tastes have been fashioned around strings of poorly conveyed information on Cinemaphile that to even suggest there are alternative views is to make every creep with a keyboard throw a temper tantrum.
Frankly I dont like either of you and these sites would be better without you mucking them up. That you even think youre different from them is ridiculously obnoxious.
I mean tv tropes didn't start this. People have been breaking down media to its most basic bones for centuries. Probably millennia. This is simply a more simple version that's really accessible to normies. It's nothing new, people bad at media literacy and incapable of separating tropes from stories have existed long before the advent of the printing press.
The problem was painting tropes as negative.
Like SCP tv tropes is one of those things that started as a small community doing its thing, and then got a massive influx of visitors and started taking itself too seriously. I was semi-active there for a short while, and wrote one of the tropes because someone said they'd quote me if I did (funny quotes by contributors used to be a part of entries). It's still up.
More to the point, the internet has enabled people with zero credentials in fiction to start talking about it as if they have any authority. This inevitably resulted in people with no skill learning everything they know from other people with no skill. Just take a look at the mountains of writing advice channels on YouTube that are run, at best, by amateur writers. Those are the spaces I've seen this shit the most. Either people asking "how do I avoid X trope?" before they've not even put pen to paper, or people giving terrible advice that boils down to "don't do this". Essentially it's all just people looking for the silver bullet.
spbp & /thread
4. It causes said midwits to mistake identifying a trope with having meaningful criticism of a piece of media, as if any and all tropes are inherently negative and that by identifying a list of tropes for any given piece of media, they are creating some kind of cinema sins-style criticism list.
that's literary criticism tho
i get it and you do have a point, but breaking things down into a system is how all literary theory works, and the reason all of those systems fall down is that they're trying to be one-size-fits-all for something that necessarily encompasses not just the full range of human endeavor and imagination but the full range of responses to that, in all people, ever, which is a tall order and somewhat of a ridiculous task to set yourself
tvtropes isn't a new concept - literary criticism was already well into its third age when Richard Dawkins was cribbing from his college roommates' textbooks to come up with his meme definition in the 70s - it's just a very visible and because of its nature very widespread one; it exposes the flaws of litcrit as a concept while failing to promote its successes because, emerging as it did in the buzzfeed listicle era of the internet, it became defined itself by that format and can't break out of it
eventually it will break down and be forgotten (most of the site is effectively just lists of lists anyway, so nothing of value is lost) and some new form will arise in which people desperately try to explain fiction to themselves, which may be more highbrow like trad cricitism or more lowbrow like, well, explain a movie wrong memes or whatever
what damages fiction the most in any age is people who are offended when it moves them emotionally and start to complain: fiction is meant to move you emotionally, and not just in ways you expect, predict or like (that's what masturbation is for)
>books are not absolutely dead things, but doe contain a potencie of life in them to be as active as that soule was whose progeny they are
be kind to people who see different worlds to you, anon, sometimes they may be right
image related
>unrivaled guide
>trends throughout history
If history starts in the 2000s, consists solely of Japanese cartoons that made it outside Japan, and you think misguiding means "guiding", then yes.
>Yes, we all know a trope when we see it, that doesn't mean there shouldn't be a word for it.
I think the argument, behind all the wankery, is that TVTropes is about telling you of something you already know, and about saying things that aren't tropes are because TVTropes says so.
I like how feminist and trans-inclusive it is that gender role tropes are completely erased and we all have to pretend it's okay.
Maybe it'd be worse if they kept it in, maybe it'd just be reams upon reams of a ranting over girls being depicted differently to boys. :/
Eastern animation has gotten worse over the years...
>If history starts in the 2000s
Works from before 2000 are documented with examples on how these old works also used the same conventions. If you don't like it, that's not anyone's problem but yours.
wrong
>Collective Autism work changes something
>For the worse
Never underestimate the power of autism
something something redheads
What is it about redheads, Mr. Trips?
they’re disappearing
Whats wrong with that?
they scare me
WHY THE FRICK WON'T YOU LET ME DELETE THE FRICKING POST I MADE IN THE WRONG THREAD Cinemaphile
Just report your own thread homie
Cartoons and comics use tropes so it still applies i think.
That's moronic
You can't make this thread on Cinemaphile, Cinemaphile, Cinemaphile, etc
i don't see why not. Those use tropes too.
Make that thread on Cinemaphile if you're so confident
I've seen this thread made on Cinemaphile and Cinemaphile many times over the years
Proof?
homie, where's the fricking proof?
Like 14 years ago I accidentally made a strike witches thread on Cinemaphile instead of Cinemaphile and didn't notice for a while because the discussion about it went on anyway.
>WHY THE FRICK WON'T YOU LET ME DELETE THE FRICKING POST I MADE IN THE WRONG THREAD
Blame /jp/
>Few things have done more catastrophic damage to media discussion and the public conscious' understanding of fiction than this fricking site.
I'd argue the rise of youtube reviewers did more damage
It's a nose-to-nose kind of race.
Shitty site that just makes shit up on their YMMV page constantly stating stuff like how a certain character is supposedly hated even though I never saw said hatred anywhere. It's editors are also very far leftist so any audience reaction that may seem advantageous to the "other side" are soundly ignored despite how huge the reaction was on social media or be countered with disingenuous statements (like how said thing was already done before).
Best summary I've ever read of why the entire idea of tropes is utterly worthless: https://www.indelicates.com/trope/
Particularly this part, for tl;dr purposes:
>A trope here is just any identifiable plot, motif, character type or any other aspect of fictional work that can be recognised as having occurred more than once. In that, can you honestly think of a single usage that could add anything to anyone’s understanding of what you’re saying? The website TVtropes.org defines it as “a storytelling shorthand for a concept that the audience will recognize and understand instantly.” Right. So the whole audience already knows that the thing in question is what the use of the word trope intends to inform them that it is. The word adds nothing. It communicates nothing. It has an information content of zero. It is a dead fricking parrot.
>Or... not quite. Because it does communicate something, doesn’t it?
>It communicates that the user of the word would like you to know that - despite the fact that they are talking about something which they know that everybody already knows - they aren’t talking about it on some base, common level like you might. No. they are talking about it on the kind of level where people say trope. Yeah, sure, they’re watching The Hobbit or whatever, but they’re not watching it like the dumb masses watch it because when they see an old wise bloke explaining the plot to some dwarves they’ve noticed that it’s a TROPE and are, therefore, winning in some way.
>I’d call it intellectual masturbation, but that would be a disservice to wanking - it isn’t nearly so interesting. What it is is intellectual trainspotting.
The website TVtropes.org defines it as “a storytelling shorthand for a concept that the audience will recognize and understand instantly.” Right. So the whole audience already knows that the thing in question is what the use of the word trope intends to inform them that it is. The word adds nothing. It communicates nothing. It has an information content of zero. It is a dead fricking parrot
This argument is fricking moronic. Yes, we all know a trope when we see it, that doesn't mean there shouldn't be a word for it. We all understand that we have to periodically close our eyes to prevent them from drying out. But I wouldn't say the word "blinking" is unnecessary. The argument is literally just "ughhh why does word exist?" Words are used to describe observable phenomena. If it's something we can all agree exists I can't think of single reason not to define it with one catch all term.
What he's saying is that it's not noteworthy that a storytelling convention has been used before (because they ALL fricking have, literally fricking EVERYTHING is a trope) nor is it noteworthy that you recognised it as such. The full blogpost talks about how identifying something as a "cliché" is potentially useful if not wrongly or overused, but identifying something as a "trope" has no value whatsoever.
I dont follow how identifying something that exists is somehow a bad or worthless thing. Tropes already exist, theyre patterns on a gradient. Whats wrong with identifying them?
Imagine being that upset about a simple word to write all that. Also TROPE.
Black person. troony. homosexual. israelite. Groomer.
TROPE
Christ is King.
TROPE
This is quite funny, you read that entire blogpost and came to the conclusion
>lol, that person is triggered by the word "trope"
rather than their actual argument which is that
>I recognise thing! Thing is like other thing!
is a worthless statement which says nothing about the content or quality of the media in question, only that you have the basic ability to recognise things you've seen before which everyone who is not clinically moronic possesses.
This sounds like some jaded Boomers and Gen X homosexuals are angry that people decided to actually lust and explain stuff
That's what it comes off as
"NOO!!! You can't just break down storytelling into trivia, building blocks, and details! It needs to be, like, spontaneous and you gotta, like, figure things out in tune with the harmony of the universe, maaaaaan"
you sound like a homosexual.
>you should interpret stories with some level of humanity instead of micro-hyper-analyzing minutiae and breaking it all down into pieces like some kind of malfunctioning autistic computer
Unironically correct.
Point invalidated by the use of twitter slurs unfortunately
What, “unironic”? Because that didn’t come from twitter anon it came from SA which may be worse
Why care? They don't have a patent on it or anything.
I'm just mad about the no fun brigade removing "negativity" and sex-related works and deleting perfectly fine information because their cabal said it's not "tropable"
It's painfully obvious they have marketers and shills in the moderation team. They nuked every single criticism of the Fallout show within hours of it being posted. I saw it in real time.
You couldn't put real criticisms of the Star Wars sequels until TROS left everyone unhappy, all the damn fawning over Driver to say nothing of Rey
For realsies?
Proof?
You need an account to view page history as of recently (how convenient) but you can use the Wayback Machine.
They're pretty bent on silencing criticism of anything modern. Like that She-Hulk show, where they bent over backwards to defend the stupid scene where the titular character tries to say that her being catcalled a few times is remotely as bad as what Bruce Banner has gone through, and that she's totally in control of her anger and emotions - while literally every episode, and that episode itself, even - shows that, no, she isn't.
Hell they used to say they weren't Wikipedia so you could be biased, so naturally the ymmv pages were for the complaints that Wikipedia wouldn't take.
They got rid of porn works due to advertisers
Is there a mirror or something that doesn't give a frick and allows them?
There's a bunch of splinter sites, but since I haven't visited them I couldn't speak as to their quality.
I assume they're all pretty much dead like most "start my own" clapback projects.
Allthetropes and Tropedia on Wikia exists but there aren't many people adding and editing the trope pages and they function more like an archive site for shit that Tv tropes deletes like most H-games like Rance or Snoot game.
>Snoot game
Oh yeah, they deleted the page for that one too because muh transphobia. Nevermind that it was millions of times better than the original to the point it was genuinely enjoyable.
Funny thing it was just one user who complained about it
And of course it was a troony
That is a pretty moronic reason to remove the article. I didn't think that they would do that.
The fate of all wikis refusing to acknowledge how clumsy are the retcons.
>That is a pretty moronic reason to remove the article. I didn't think that they would do that.
I have some bad news for you anon...
>The fate of all wikis refusing to acknowledge how clumsy are the retcons.
I'm telling you, it's bribery. Even the most braindead fans called bullshit, but they get banned or silenced for protesting the blatant character assassination.
I specifically picked the DB wiki for the
image because DB fans are autistic morons that make an article for EACH punch, kick, & energy beam attack with a name from move lists in the various video games but can't wrap their heads around characters being of different ages in different canons. They used "Saiyan genetics" to simultaneously to explain why characters look older & younger than they are supposed to be. Also, they can't recognize an asspull when they see it.
>Is there a mirror or something that doesn't give a frick and allows them?
The only one I know of is All the Tropes, but I have no idea if it's still updated, or of its quality level.
>sex-related works
That's not them being no fun, that's because of Google being no fun.
What's dumber is now half the shit is being destroyed in favor of these stupid disambiguation pages so half the shit on any page is now some stupid green link because some autists got pissed that certain things were too broad or whatever.
far right homosexuals did more damage to media than a dumb wiki website
this website's premise alone isn't bad, tropes are fun to notice and discuss, it only became a problem because morons didnt know how to oh who am i kidding why am i even typing this shit out nobody cares im gonna go eat an oatmeal
Might as well say it, you're already here anyway.
oh fine
tropes are fan to catalog, nobody is forcing someone to view them as bad or problematic to a story and originally nobody claimed that was the case, but some people just need a list of instruction to function off of they cannot review a story based on it's own merit, they require a list of checkmarks to see if something is good or bad, so they started using tropes this way, which is not the reason why they're cataloged in the first place
I hope anon's oatmeal was good
Given that all media discussion here consists of is
>I saw a black person and now I'm angry. This is the downfall of western civilization
I don't really give a shit if tvtropes catalogs cliches.
Why don't you take a hike back to Upboatddit if you hate it so much here?
Maybe like a decade ago when it was relevant. Now it's just a fun look at 2010s highly organized autism.
Relevance is a relative thing. It might be out of the spotlight, but the damage it inflicted is done.
post some
i remember the page for jla act of god cited linkara from time to time
it would definitely be funny if one of them cited fricking mariotehplumber or gligar13
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/JustForFun
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ClockworkCreature
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/YouTuberApologyParody
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/SelfDemonstratingArticle
NTA but the Troper Tales section was a veritable goldmine of cringe comedy when it existed. I still miss it sometimes.
Who?
>Allthetropes
That was founded by the guy that was banned from FANDOM by saying trannies suck or some such.
>i remember the page for jla act of god cited linkara from time to time
Pretty much every comic related trope/work does because a lot of stuff on the site was written during TGWTG's heyday.
the mid to late 2000s tvtropes was fun yet also pretty cringe with the Pantheon as such.
Boy, you really don't want to look at the Pantheon now.
At least it helped me learn which shows did, in fact, air on PBS Kids
People who use sites like these aren’t going to make anything new that’s worthwhile.
>delete 99.9% of hentai and H-game/VN pages
>recently deleted the page of the SM lesbian evil magical girl anime
>Cuties is still intact and has several subpages
Nothing incriminating about this site
>the SM lesbian evil magical girl anime
The WHAT now?
MahoAko
Destroy all ~~*advertisers*~~
Gas everyone who use ~~*advertisers*~~ as an excuse to censor
~~*Advertisers*~~ ruined the internet. Worst thing to happen to the web besides social media.
>SM lesbian evil magical girl
Huh?
All the tropes I saw on that site were inane things like
>2 characters get in a car and have a conversation
>character is late for work
>character spends time with loved ones
I can't imagine how autistic you'd have to be to want to catalogue all that shit.
This. It seems like an insane site for insane people
I use it as a springboard for fanfiction. I know that sounds bad but its how I found Conversations With a Cryptid and I am thankful for that.
Find any good ones? Or at least enjoyable?
>Few things have done more catastrophic damage to media discussion and the public conscious' understanding of fiction than autists with unrestricted internet access.
Fixed that for you, bro. Like it or not, everything was fine until mobile internet devices and mobile internet plans became affordable for tards and tards enablers.
It was fine when everyone stuck to their own communities. When the web became increasingly homogeneized everything went to hell.
>go to trope
>examples
>"as Bob Chipmann explains..."
Comics and cartoons use trops therefore this thread is related. Seethe and dilate.
Make this thread on Cinemaphile or Cinemaphile
Cut off your dick cuz you are gay
Not Cinemaphile
Frick off
>No argument
homosexual
Bitching about tvtropes ISN'T comics & cartoons related
You're not even talking about writing conventions, you're talking about a fricking website
Either way this isn't a discussion about western comics or cartoons
its just a catalogue of repeating genre conventions
its literally just a compilation of "hey isnt it funny that someone always dies when it snows or rains?"
the human ability to recognize patterns and to have a full set of something is inherently fulfilling, it is why we like having collecting things and why we like sorting things
saying tvtropes damaged storytelling at a fundamental level is like saying your funny collection of rocks damaged geology forever
>saying tvtropes damaged storytelling at a fundamental level is like saying your funny collection of rocks damaged geology forever
There's no point of comparison. Rock autists generally keep to themselves and a decent portion of them have actual knowledge on the subject. Meanwhile tropegays not only are midwits parroting intellectual empty calories but they escaped containment an poisoned the well of discussing storytelling.
The worst part is how TV tropes users immediately assume everyone else knows what they're talking about when they start listing off article names from the site. Like it'll start out as a normal sentence and then suddenly
>it's out of character for a Woobie to be Flumping the Scrunt like that, typically the Potato Peeler in a Two-Man Tussle would do it
Yeah when a user gets banned they call it "bouncing", who the frick crawls up their ass this much with lingo
>Fallout TV show shit being added to NV's character pages
Fricking why?
Because
Amazon bribed the admins.
Are bribes necessary? Nobody seem to question the moronic once per day injection BS for ghouls. There is so much wrong with that.
>Few things have done more catastrophic damage to media discussion and the public conscious' understanding of fiction than this fricking site.
I agree. This is one of the few things.
how?
Death of the Author is encourages this homosexualry. It is also complete bullshit. This is how we got to the point where writing became hyper self-aware. It became more about the author communicating his intent more clearly rather than execution. Writers now invoke tropes rather just letting the schizo readers make their own interpretations.
Wasn't this done by exactly one person, and they later came out and admitted it was solely because they were obsessed with this show, and thought that, if they added a "Nightmare Fuel" page to the article, people would actually talk about it with them?
Spoiler that shit right now.
context. and no i don't mean "why did it become a meme" i know about the nightmare fuel page. i wanna know the context for that image in the episode, god fricking dammit.
I think it's just a shot of a cartoon villain looking vaguely creepy.
>I think
no
i want an answer from someone who actually watched the goddamn thing
>w-we don't watch baby shows
this is Cinemaphile don't fricking lie to us
Twitter has done so much more damage it's like comparing a matchstick to the sun.
A website that incentives "controversial" extreme takes and has a character limit preventing people from adding any nuance to their statements, all powered by algorithms that push extreme views to the foreground.
tvtropes did damage? Get the frick out of here with that nonsense.
What I hate the most about this site beyond its usual autism, is that it homogenizes everything.
Like something present in Lake Mungo (as an example) could potentially technically be present in some pre-schooler show, which is unfortunate when you're clicking on a trope hoping to see more horror stuff similar to it and find technical similarities with no nuance.
I'm still reeling about the fact that they not only rehired Fighteer but he's still the head mod.
I know I'm taking things out of context, it's just funny.
SNAP!
yep, this one's going in my based compilation.
>Do Not Do This Cool Thing
Which one? Cannibalism or holocausts?
Depends on which one is supposed to be the cool thing.
>The Char Clone and the Shana Clone pages are now cut.
Why?
Because a handful of mods decided one day that some tropes are too ambiguous/broad/some other stupid reason and so have been getting rid of them by redirecting them to disambiguation pages. This is done AFAIK with no input or debate from actual users, it's just a bunch of jannies making these decisions unilaterally.
i just use it to read cool trivia and facts after watching a movie 🙂
I stopped using the site when I was a teenager and learned there was a page for fanfiction, which was essentially being used by authors to advertise their slop.
Just don't use it, I don't
Seeing the stance that articles clearly have and try to hide is really funny.
>Few things have done more catastrophic damage to media discussion and the public conscious' understanding of fiction than this fricking site.
what about cartoon ecelebs?
Yes that too. The OP did say "few things" rather than "no other thing"
If you took this site seriously ever that’s a you problem.
The problem is not any given person taking it seriously, the problem is that many people did and the bad influence resulting from it.
The site is run by shitheads that hand out bans like free candy. Many legit entries are often removed because someone got butthurt over it, tropes are frequently gutted because 2 or 3 staff members decide they hate them.
Most staff members there could be stuffed feet first into a wood chipper & they'd serve more of a purpose giving nutrition to the soil than they ever will contribute while alive.
The downfall of every community is unpaid jannies with oversized egos and thin skin.