The Last Jedi was a great film. Easily the third best Star Wars film (tied with RotJ). It never made sense to me why so many fans disliked it when AotC, TFA, and RoS exist.
Fine, I'll say it.
The Last Jedi was a great film. Easily the third best Star Wars film (tied with RotJ). It never made sense to me why so many fans disliked it when AotC, TFA, and RoS exist.
I like it because it makes chuds seethe.
>consumes feces
HOW U LIKE DAT LIL CHUDDIE IM EATING SHIT AND YOU CAN'T DO NOTHIN ABOUT IT
no tho
I actually liked Punished Luke and all that despite how hard it made manchildren seethe however the movie overall is shit because the entire sideplot with Finn/Poe is irredeemable garbage that wasted an hour of time.
>the entire sideplot with Finn/Poe is irredeemable garbage that wasted an hour of time.
That they added Rose Tico and kept Finn and Poe apart for most of TLJ is a real crime. They should've had a buddy cop movie for the B story instead of Poe getting repeatedly cucked by women.
true, the opening with Finn and Poe is the best part of TFA. lot of genuine energy and excitement
>I actually liked Punished Luke
I, like most people, liked it better when he was named Yoda, but like everything else in this derivative shameless copy paste by an idiot who can't remember the better stuff he's copying form, he decided what was really missing with Yoda was adding 15 minutes to every choice Yoda did within 2.
Even Yoda's weird looking flips weren't as cringe as the matrix rip off scene. I'd ask if he could do anything original, but he did, the Canto Bight scene. That's the only part he didn't take wholesale from the better star wars movie. Jesus no wonder it was a dumpster fire, a stray original thought and he shits the bed.
>I actually liked Punished Luke
The concept isn't completely irredeemable to me but it was executed in a terrible way.
They could have e.g. had his new Jedi order assailed by Empire loyalists who massacred his students and he was too traumatized to rebuild. Or organically had Ben go to the dark side, with Luke's failure being loving his nephew too much to realize how bad it was until it was too late.
I thought of those in literally 5 seconds.
Which is 5 seconds longer than Rian thought about it.
>Luke apologizes to Ben for failing him, but this time tearfully, acknowledging that he didn't want to admit that Ben was in danger, as he duels him to give Rey and company time to escape an actually engaging and interesting danger
>In epic homage to Obi-Wan, sheathes his saber and offers his life to Ben, but instead of "I will become more powerful" or "I'll haunt you" it's "Strike me down, and I'll always be with you, and I promise I will never stop trying to bring you back to the light"
If only this movie had good writers.
It's not, but it might be the better of the three sequel movies by default. Mark Hamill made shitty material work until they killed off his character, but he was still written with no connective tissue whatsoever to the character we left him as in ROTJ. A lot of that is JJ's fault for being too afraid to write any dialogue for Luke in TFA.
But the humor in TLJ is what ruins it for me more than anything. All of the jokes are terrible. The only ones that work are the ones with Hamill's deadpan delivery.
>AotC, TFA, and RoS exist.
None of these rape the 2nd greatest hero in the history of cinema. TLJ does.
Luke's character made sense in TLJ.
>b-but I expected him to be a wise OP Jedi master with no faults or self doubt
I'm sorry that they didn't follow your headcanon.
Oskar Schindler isn’t even in TLJ
It would be a shitty movie even if it weren't a Star Wars movie.
I would have been easily a 8/10 had it not had the pointless Finn/Rose subplot. Tighten in on Rey/Kylo/Snoke and the pursuit of the rebels and it would have been a solid SW flick.
I genuinely don't get why AoTC is hated
have you tried watching it
yes, it's not much different from the other two prequels
it gets more flak because
a) the CGI is fricking awful, and all of the prequels have awful CGI but TCW had the most of it
b) it is probably one of the worst and most bland love stories ever put to film
c) anakin is an annoying b***h. in the first one he can kind of be excused as being a kid and in the 3rd one he's basically the villain anyway so whatever
Hayden is frickawful outside of 1 or 2 scenes.
Mostly wasting Dooku.
Having Anakin & ObiWan separate for far too long so we never get to see them as partners/brothers enough.
It's just kind of a mess that's all over the galaxy spatially, the love story was indeed pretty weak, and there is TOO MUCH "tell, don't show." Dooku is just kind of dropped in there and has all of this backstory that we're told at about, then all of that Sifo-Dyas shit (his name was too similar to Sidious that I thought the implication was that he ordered the clones).
It's just not a simple movie like the others and Lucas had to do too much since he wanted to start off Anakin as a little kid and create a 10 year time gap that we're essentially playing catchup in the second movie in some ways.
I like the part where Luke died and floated away in the breeze like Ben and Yoda.
I didn't like much else. It came across like a lampoon movie at parts or had long filler cgi scenes like the prequels.
Saying that, it might be the most interesting of the new trilogy.
obvious bait
>The Last Jedi
PROS!
> Good emotional performance from Hamill.
> Decent performance from Driver.
> Snoke is a bit more charismatic than expected.
> Dern's death was a cool sequence.
> The reveal of Rey's parents being nobodies was intelligent.
SUBJECTIVE PROS & CONS DEPENDING ON YOU PERSONALLY!
> Rehashing the At-Ats.
> Kelly Marie Tran (many find her horribly annoying, I was mostly indifferent to her), no matter what she was just a waste, time spent on her they should have been building up Poe & or Finn.
> The idea of the throne room battle was great but the execution & choreography was weak.
> The final "duel" between Luke & Kylo was moderately cool but anti climatic.
> Leia's force flight through space.
CONS!
> The slug crawl space chase massively drags the film & pacing down. It also makes the scale & feel of the film seem much less epic/cinematic.
> Dern is wasted as a ungodly unlikable b***h of character.
> Poe is wasted by being forced to sit around and deal with her horseshit.
> Finn is wasted by being forced to go on a irrelevant Capitalism demonizing subplot on the casino planet.
> Leia is wasted.
> Demonizing of the Jedi & heroism in general.
> Demonizing of Luke & turning him into a nihilistic, sarcastic jackass.
> Rey less likable & less endearing than she was in TFA.
> Luke not actually training Rey at all.
>Demonizing of the Jedi & heroism in general.
>Demonizing of Luke & turning him into a nihilistic, sarcastic jackass.
These things didn't happen and you misinterpreted the film.
>> The reveal of Rey's parents being nobodies was intelligent.
Not really. What's intelligent about it?
>Oh hey you know that thing Obi-Wan did? You know, his exact character about not being the chosen one or coming from anywhere special, so instead he had to work to be where he was?
>Okay lets just take out the hard work and make the character instant amazing, and then rehash that same "Comes from nowhere but eventually is able to beat a Skywalker" thing.
>This revelation will also do absolutely nothing for her character in any sense, she is the exact same character at the end as she is at the start.
It's just more lazy copying, done worse than the last time it happened.
Now if they'd given that supposedly amazing twist of "Losing hope in the jedi" to her instead of Luke, maybe that would've been different. Luke Skywalker who took the offer in the second movie? Totally different, haven't seen that before. Instead we are on the third reluctant teacher in the third trilogy and the second hermit on a deserted planet plotline because god forbid Rey have anything remotely approaching a character.
Allow my to propose a counterargument:
It's dogshit
Watch the Plinkett Review
it was anti-slop for an audience of slop addicts. its a film that asked you to try something new in a very stale story and explore characters in a way you weren't expecting to. it respected the audience enough to offer bitter notes. it was far from perfect and I'm certainly not saying it was a masterpiece of cinema but it was engaging and bold.
SW audiences don't want to be engaged. they don't want bold. they don't want bitter notes. they don't want to be respected because they don't respect themselves. they want sugar. they want brain-off.
>they want sugar
Sometimes a recipe calls for sugar anon. Not ever dish is going to be, or needs to be, a super complex, high concept one. Sometimes a simple, ripe, juicy apple hits the spot.
You're implying that the Star Wars framework can provide any more than
>LE GOOD
vs
>LE BAD
Asking that they not violently rape, mock, degrade, waste and shit on him and destroy any and all successes and accomplishments he made post original trilogy is not asking for him to be flawless. Get fricked.
>Asking that they not violently rape, mock, degrade, waste and shit on him and destroy any and all successes and accomplishments he made post original trilogy
Again, it doesn't really shit on his accomplishments. He simply became disillusioned with the Jedi because he went through a rehash of what happened to his father. But in the end, he learns from his mistakes, atoned for them, found redemption, confronted those he has failed, inspired hope, and learned to show compassion once again.
It's odd to me that you think a person can't lose their way after several decades, especially someone like Luke who still redeems himself towards the end.
>inspired hope,
I always love when idiots spout this as if just showing a kid staring up at a star is supposed to imply he "Inspired" people, when the actual story in no way shows anything that would bring inspiration to people. That setup was so badly written we're literally supposed to think this kid heard about something that wasn't televised and decided
>If I'm really strong and brave like Luke Skywalker, I too may one day slightly stall the unstoppable force who just took over our galaxy, saving maybe 20 people out of originally thousands! I might get to give my life to save people long after most of them are dead!
And only TLJ defenders, nobody else is dumb enough, only they decide that this is what inspires people around the galaxy to rise up against the Empire, not the actual literal defeat of the Empire they already pulled off and apparently just decided to give up after, it was too hard. But stalling! Hoo buddy, did he get to stall them, for a minute. Saving maybe enough people for a chucky cheese party. It's mind boggling how badly this was written, it's literally resetting Luke to pre-A new hope levels and then faceplanting trying to bring him back to where the much better, actually loved story already had him. It takes a sheer abandon level of stupidity to think that would inspire anyone.
But that's TLJ defenders! The only people out there stupid enough to say "At least he tried something new" with a straight face.
He inspired hope to everyone that witnessed his return, dipshit. Including Rey who thought he was too far gone to be saved.
The kid staring up at the stars is a different thing, but it's an idea still in the spirit of Star Wars. A nobody can have a dream and wonder what their place is in the universe. Luke was a nobody, Rey was also a nobody.
>it's literally resetting Luke to pre-A new hope levels
This didn't happen.
I like how you ignored everything else I described about Luke's journey in TLJ. If you were too moronic to understand the film, just say it. But don't pretend that his character was "shat on" just because he didn't act how you expected him to.
>He inspired hope to everyone that witnessed his return
lol. They were too busy trying to chase crystal foxes to find the back door to the cave to watch that old ham.
Incorrect. They only went to find a way out of the base after they realized he was buying them some time.
I'll take your word for it, because there's not a chance in hell I'd ever sit through that slop again.
It doesn't even make sense as to what "Inspiration" this dipshit is saying he gave to the universe. Luke didn't stop anyone, he didn't damage anyone, he didn't convince anyone to stop shooting at the rebels, he didn't change any minds, he didn't even scratch their giant war machines that this idiot literally wrote are currently b***hstomping their way through the galaxy.
As far as they know Luke Skywalker returned and stalled the current galaxy frickers for like 5 minutes and then was killed. That's all the galaxy knows. Luke comes back and gets his ass killed by the new rulers and the rebels are down to like 20 people after the empire wiped them out. And then it turns to the audience and says "You know, people really felt like they could take on the empire after that!" and nobody is supposed to think that's as dumb as a TLJ fan.
I'd say it doesn't make sense Purple Hair didn't inspire people considering she did far more damage and also saved a ton of lives, but I guess even Rian's dumbass knew if he tried to paint her as a hero nobody would even consider it for a second, not even the braindead defenders of this copy paste tripe.
>He inspired hope to everyone that witnessed his return, dipshit.
Look at this dumbass, the only level of stupid that a TLJ defender can be.
>Uh, the movie told us so, so don't think about all that stuff that just happened that would absolutely not do that.
>but it's an idea still in the spirit of Star Wars
It is not, Star Wars has always been about doing your own thing. Luke's entire journey in the OT culminates with him telling the Jedi their ideas are wrong and he's going to reach his father, and he does.
>This didn't happen.
You thinking that isn't all that surprising seeing as following basic liner events seem to be a issue.
>I like how you ignored everything else I described about Luke's journey in TLJ.
Yeah when I can sum it up as "Yoda but with a 15 minute extention" I don't need a play by play. So glad the jedi on the deserted planey waited an extra 10 minutes between the arrival and the blue transparent ghost of their past convincing them to put the jedi in the spooky cave.
> If you were too moronic to understand the film, just say it
You're too moronic to understand film. You can also shorten it by saying "TLJ was original!" and everyone knows what you mean.
>But don't pretend
I don't need to pretend, they had a big ol red X on his face. But more importantly I can shit on using his character as a lazy rehash of Yoda, again, but written far worse, and so badly done it relies entirely on everyone else forgetting what may be the biggest scene of his life where he, and only he, became the only person in the entire universe to figure out how to deal with a darkside fallen family member.
Now, Rian's too moronic to remember to put in a single line of dialogue implying he tried that for plan A, but I'm sure you could figure out-oh. Nevermind, that level of stupid.
>Now, Rian's too moronic to remember to put in a single line of dialogue implying he tried that for plan A
He's just gonna use that moronic "People do random things and forget major events and change for no reason" Appeal To Nature argument, again. Because human nature apparently is the ultimate answer to shit writing. Entire movie builds up to him saying "I'm going to try to reach my darkside member family with love and bring him back" and it works? Don't even bother adding in a line to your endless boring droning about this backstory. Toss it out, for reasons, he hesitated or felt bad or whatever.
It was too moronic even for regular people.
>Star Wars has always been about doing your own thing. Luke's entire journey in the OT culminates with him telling the Jedi their ideas are wrong and he's going to reach his father, and he does.
Films can have multiple messages, y'know. Luke was still a nobody that had a dream which led him on his adventure. It's an idea that TLJ emphasizes.
>You thinking that isn't all that surprising seeing as following basic liner events seem to be a issue.
Again, you're telling me that people can't lose their way as they get older. Luke did so after seeing his attempt at a new Jedi order crumble into pieces because of his failure. Reminder that George Lucas's pitch to Disney for the sequels included Luke being a Colonel Kurtz type character that lives in seclusion.
>Yeah when I can sum it up as "Yoda but with a 15 minute extention"
>But more importantly I can shit on using his character as a lazy rehash of Yoda,
Yoda in Empire and Luke in TLJ act very different and have different mindsets and arcs. Hardly similar at all.
>what may be the biggest scene of his life where he, and only he, became the only person in the entire universe to figure out how to deal with a darkside fallen family member.
In the OT, Luke was faced with becoming the monster that his father became. In the ST, Jedi Master Luke Skywalker was faced with something else - creating that monster. The situations are also very different because of Vader being Luke's father. Kylo's conflicts were always focused on his parents and Rey. Luke knew that he alone couldn't bring Ben back like he brought back Anakin. All he could do was apologize and try to save the Resistance...which he did.
>Entire movie builds up to him saying "I'm going to try to reach my darkside member family with love and bring him back" and it works?
Read above. Luke's situation with Kylo was very different than with Vader.
>Luke was still a nobody that had a dream which led him on his adventure
No, Luke had a revenge plot that lead him on his adventure. Kind of important. Basis of the entire film, one might say
>Again, you're telling me that people can't lose their way as they get older.
What complete idiodicy is this? No, generally when people have massive events that have either dire consequences one direction or inspiring war criminals to save the day, they don't usually default back to considering the method that absolutely did not work. This is very obvious to even the dumbest of writers, nobody would be so stupid as to have Luke put the computer back on during another death star trench run. Well, except Rian, because he's moronic, and maybe you, cause you're on that level.
>that lives in seclusion.
Oh well that's the same thing as the entire basis of a plot forced into a Yoda rehash being
>Luke kind of forgot the most important moment of his life
>Hardly similar at all
Nice one.
No I know you're serious, it's just still funny.
>Luke was faced with becoming the monster that his father became.
And figured out how to avoid that, and not only that, how to avoid his father continuing to be the monster. Literally just spun back.
Guess which one TLJ fans, and Rian, are too stupid to remember.
> creating that monster.
And a good, scratch that, basic competence writer would use the fact he already knows how to avoid that to the story's benefit. Guess what's missing.
>Kylo's conflicts were always focused on his parents and Rey
You mean his parents.
Also pretty easy to fix, he can talk to the guy who did this.
>uke knew that he alone couldn't bring Ben back
No he didn't. At no point in his flashback did he so much as give a single line or scene hinting he tried. Not one. Go on, rewatch it.
He doesn't know, the moron who wrote this is too stupid to figure out how to make it work with jamming in a character to rehash the role of a better movie.
>No, Luke had a revenge plot that lead him on his adventure.
His curiosity with the droids and Obi-Wan led him on his adventure. His aunt and uncle dying was signifying that there was no turning back. He would've died had he stayed.
>Luke kind of forgot the most important moment of his life
Again, different situation that he was able to solve because of his father's connection with him. Kylo didn't have that connection with Luke.
>And figured out how to avoid that, and not only that, how to avoid his father continuing to be the monster.
...by exploiting his father's feelings for him. He couldn't do that with Kylo.
>You mean his parents.
And Rey. Kylo literally kills his master because of his feelings towards her and offers her to join him.
>No he didn't. At no point in his flashback did he so much as give a single line or scene hinting he tried. Not one. Go on, rewatch it.
For a split second, Luke was terrified of the evil he sensed and turned on his lightsaber in reflex. For a split second. How anal do you have to be that you can't allow a character to falter for a split second before immediately recollecting himself and feeling ashamed? Luke expects himself to be a paragon and to be wise, when he makes that mistake, he has doubt in his heroism.
>His curiosity with the droids and Obi-Wan led him on his adventure.
No, he very specifically said he wasn't going on the adventure until his aunt and uncle got killed and he found out who killed his dad. That's called a "refusing the call" of a heroes journey, you might not know about it because it involves following a liner character progression and building off it instead of resetting randomly "Because".
>Again, different situation
Well real fricking pity he didn't have a means to connect on a personal level with his nephew after having a trilogy of movies culminating in telling the jedi order 'Frick you family is important and I can sense good in him so I'm going to reach to it, oh hey that worked.' Basic competence to build off that. Sub-fanfic level.
>He couldn't do that with Kylo.
Yeah not like Kylo mentioned anything about looking up to him or jealousy or-and this is just spitballing, had parents, or force ghost parents.
He had parents, and Luke, specifically, is the only person in the entire galaxy to figure out how to make that work. And he, specifically, knows it works. And we, the audience, were not shown any reason to think he tried it, because bad writing. Straight up no muff no tuff, bad writing.
>And Rey.
Honestly trying to reason with the idiocy of the throne room scene is pointless past the spyglass, but us getting to that point due to bad writing for Luke is the real stickler of the discussion, keep up.
>For a split second,
You almost gave me hope there was some line about he tried it for a split second.
>How anal do you have to be
How bad at screenwriting do you have to be to write a contradictory to character scene like that, and forget to lay the groundwork? He was already long as frick with this movie, he already crammed in flashbacks, there is no excuse not to establish what massive change got him to this point, besides regular old "Shit writer did a shit writing so stupid only an idiot would defend it."
And here you are!
>Read above. Luke's situation with Kylo was very different than with Vader.
More specifically, in oder
>He knows how to avoid becoming the monster because he did that so that's not holding him back
And
>He knows he has plenty of time to fix it because not only does he know visions are sometimes bullshit but he knows why not to chase them, pretty major character growth he had
And
>This is his nephew so he's got a ton more time and leeway and far less warcrimes to figure out
ANd
>He knew reaching out to them worked better, he didn't even try this once onscreen in either flashback and there's no dialogue saying he tried it.
And
>He knows how to deal with parental issues, and rage regarding them, he went through them personally and came out having figured it out, he's literally the perfect guy to deal with it. Rey did not exist to them I dunno why you said that dumb shit.
And
>He absolutely would have tried, assuming the writer isn't so bad at their job they ignore it and hope idiots go to bat defending this
And
>Us getting to this point at all would require accepting the most out of character random stupidity that hinges on nobody remembering all the stuff Luke did in the actually good OT or saying he completely changed from all that or forgot the lessons he learned, when the far easier thing to do is point out this writer is a moron that fricked up writing a character, not that he magically lost all that good stuff. That's it, it's bad writing, an idiot wrote something contradictory and stupid.
And
>Glad you found something dumb enough to relate to. Try House of the Dead next.
>Luke knew that he alone couldn't bring Ben back like he brought back Anakin.
He could ask Anakin about that.
You're telling me Yoda can show up but not Anakin? You'd have to at least throw in a line of dialogue about, it like-
"I tried to reach my father, hoping for guidance, but he was silent. And I didn't know what to do, when Ben wouldn't be swayed by my words..."
or something, otherwise all the non-idiots might cause the movie to have the biggest second weekend drop of all time! The worst legs of any Star Wars movie, period! The world record breaking sequel drop!
That would be terrible.
Ben had already killed his father and nearly killed his mother. It's fair for Luke to assume that he can't reach him at all. At least Anakin still had feelings for his own family.
Luke also presented a unique vulnerability to Vader that no one else did. It was the exact opposite of the Kylo situation.
>Ben had already killed his father and nearly killed his mother
We're talking about during the bad writing flashback that's the basis of this entire also badly written shitshow of a plot. Before he killed his dad, Anakin could've solved this whole thing.
>and nearly killed his mother
I was going to bring her up and how he couldn't do it now, when he's gone full crazy and thus before he went full crazy would've worked out great, but you did it for me.
Good job remembering why the bad writing kept telling you reasons why this flashback plot works about as well as the "Inspiration" plothook ending.
>I was going to bring her up and how he couldn't do it now, when he's gone full crazy and thus before he went full crazy
In hindsight it's really odd that they immediately had him go "Mwahah I'm evil and killed my parent" and then 10 minutes later in movie time go "Oh but not that evil". Couldn't even have him try and fail. Just reminds us even more that the Luke situation makes no sense, if he'd at least tried to go through with it we could at least imply the characters retroactively knew it wouldn't work by magic, but nope. Would've worked just fine, and Luke is the very specific jedi that thinks familiar connections are dope, suck it green guy who told me to kill my child murdering dad.
If a writer who could just build off characters instead of needing to reduce them down to another character's shoes got a hold of this script it would be over in seconds. But then we wouldn't have gotten the hilariously awful red throne room fight, and is that a world we want to live in? Where incompetent directing doesn't end with them swinging wildly over people's heads?
But don't you see, the OT had him realize the Jedi were wrong about things, but still see the good in them, so obviously that means he resets to trying to dogmatically follow their code that he knows would've gotten his ass either killed or turned to the darkside. That's really what it boils down to, TLJ, frick, the Disney Sequels in general, can't build. They can't do new, original ideas, it's just the same ideas as before, but worse. Rian couldn't make a new and different Star Wars if he wanted to, he's not that good of a writer. He couldn't make a Luke who made a big mistake, and have that mistake make sense in the context of the original Trilogy. The original trilogy was too good, it made it's characters grow too far, far beyond what he could reach. So, he reduces them. Luke forgets those major moments "For a second" changes completely from the guy who got his arm cut off and his worldview rocked and was ready to go save Han before he'd even gotten a new limb attached, changes from the guy who went from attacking vader in a rage to protect Leia then realized his folly and overcome it to a guy who would reset right back to before that moment. Because it was hard. It was too hard, the writing would need to be too good, for what they were capable of. Of course people stopped coming, of course it had the biggest sequel drop of all time, of course it just, sucked, as a movie. It was an unoriginal derivative mess that didn't paint itself in a coat of fun like TFA did. Maybe with the fun, the characters acting like their old selves even when it doesn't make sense, and the anticipation of what comes next, it would've maybe at least beat Jurassic World. But, alas.
It would've been too hard.
>Ben had already killed his father and nearly killed his mother.
TLJ defenders, everyone.
Even when the line of hypothetical easy fix dialogue is directly referencing the past situation, they can't follow liner progression of character. Is this whole Old People Totally Change thing just cope for being unable to remember characters own acts or something? Is it terminal?
>RoS
I'd say Rise is good & the most enjoyable of the new trilogy. It has the most numerous flaws but TLJ has far far more severe, cruel & time wasteful ones.
PROS!
> FINALLY gave Rey, Finn & Poe stuff to do together and had fun interaction after they were completely separate for TLJ.
> Finn & Poe were vastly better used here then in TLJ.
> Good music.
> Palpatine was great and was fully back in 100% menacing mode with none of the campier sillier tone he had in Revenge of the Sith.
> Final scene had a somber but comfy & comforting sense of closure to it regardless of the "rey skywalker" line. Rey sliding down the sand like the kid she still kinda is was cute.
> Saber battles were solid.
> Death Star ruins were a great setting.
> I don't ship Rey and Ben at all but their kiss was done well enough especially their emotional smiles towards each other afterwards.
> Rey's over-powered-ness being a actual detriment with her almost killing Chewie was a cool idea.
> Left the asian out of the main action.
> Kylo's redemption was acceptably well done.
> The scale & cinematography of the final battles was very well done and epic.
CONS!
> Absurd number of conveniences.
> Creating new force powers out of thin air.
> Doing nothing with the gold & purple cyborg chick.
> Missed opportunity by not letting Kylo be the final villain of the trilogy.
> Hux being the traitor just to spite Kylo after he killed BILLIONS of people for his cause was incomprehensibly moronic.
> ANOTHER fricking Death Star rehashing.
> Chewie's reaction to Leia dying was overwrought & cringy.
> The dumb Rey Skywalker line.
>100% original story
>takes Star Wars in bold new directions
>wonderful message
>amazing performances all around
>not a second of wasted effort despite being a rather long movie
It really is about as close to perfect as Star Wars has gotten since Empire
>>not a second of wasted effort
ok lets not go crazy. there were a lot of missteps and unnecessary scenes/story beats.
- the whole casino arc
- everything about the asian girl
- omg leia is dead no wait she isnt
- holdo "i cant tell me plan for no particular reason"
- space cow titty milk (fricking why)
I'm sure there's plenty more but thats just immediately what comes to mind. the movie was bold for sure but there are lots of moments where it didn't pay off
This is a false flag thread that's really about shitting on people that love ROTJ
It's Empire Strikes Back, but in reverse, with extra filler.
i guarantee that it was mandated by disney that rian should include at-ats, a white snow (salt) planet, and that all of the new cast needs to stay alive
Sure, I'm sure they also mandated the story be about the plucky young jedi goes to a deserted planet in order to meet the exiled jedi master and learn how to be a jedi but the master initially brushes off training them but then a blue transparent ghost from their past talks to them so they reconsider so first there's light physical stuff and then the master puts the young jedi in a spooky cave where they see vague visions and leans into the darkside which the jedi master doesn't like but then the young jedi gets visions from across the galaxy and learns her friends are in danger so she ignores the jedi master's warnings and goes off to save them and then talks to the fallen darkside apprentice who serves the crinkly old master darkside user in an elevator and the apprentice brings him before his master who overpowers the young jedi and then it looks like the master is going to kill them but then at the last second the fallen darkside apprentice turns on the master and kills him and somewhere in there the darkside apprentice reaches out and offers the young jedi to join them but they turn them away and escape and during all of this the side characters are being chased by the empire in space and outrunning them and then the side characters plus droids head to a brand new planet in order to meet up with someone and then they get betrayed to the empire.
If they had just mandated a scene on a white planet where a rebel base is being attacked by four legged giant walkers and just before the darkside apprentice can reach them on foot they escape in the falcon specifically it might have gotten worse, he got to do his own thing with the casino planet and that motherfricker just shit himself like the slow kid in a school play. Everything about it was as stupid as an additions or extensions he made to the better movies, but also original!
I guess the mutiny stuff with captain danger hair was also original.
Jesus it's no wonder the rest of the movie was so bad it tanked week 2 and beyond, if he'd actually done Star Wars with an original script he apparently would've made The Ackolite before that show got to finish the job
It had some interesting ingredients that could've been interesting, but they're ultimately squandered even before the end of the movie
Half of the movie lead to nothing, it's a bad film, moron
I like it because it exposes Mark Hamill as the money hungry man that he is. Nothing wrong with that. I like money to but his decision had consequences. Star Wars can frick off forever now. It doesn’t exist anymore.
>Girlboss vs the Aging Pussy Failure
Even if this movie wasn't Star Wars, it's shit. It's The Karate Kid where Mr. Miyagi stays drunk and shows up hours after the match is over. Quit pretending "subversion" is something a no talent hack like Rian Johnson was capable of.
If I could press a button and end you I promise you I'm not joking I would hit that fricking button with the fury of a thousand suns
I think a lot of the hate is overblown, but huge chunks of the movie are dysfunctional. The entire Canto Bight sequence is Attack of the Clones-tier. Holdo is an awful character. Even Yoda's apearance feels cheap given how flimsy Luke's relationship with Rey is; the parallel it wants to draw does not work. There are parts I like a lot (Hamill's performance, Driver's, the cinematography) but it's not very good. I haven't even touched on the grating humor.
The Force Awakens did so little, it would've been piss easy for anyone with a whole two braincells to fix before it got too bad. Regular people were figuring out not-stupid reasons for why Luke was on the planet long before Rian came in and decided what we really needed was more rehashing after TFA rehashed it. He got so enamored with wanting to rehash, he not only rehashed Yoda, he deiced he was going to copy Obi-Wan, again. I know, we just had an Obi-wan copy last movie, but that Obi-wan copy didn't copy the fact Obi-Wan vanished and left his clothing behind after stalling the heroes to escape on the Millennium Falcon specifically. So better copy it, but add in a bad CGI matrix dodge because you can't copy your way out of being stupid.
>everything you said was hecking wrong chud
>dies
If Star Wars fans enjoy trash like Book of Boba Fett Kenobi and Acolyte of course they will enjoy Sequel Trilogy abominations
TLJ isn't the worst movie ever, but it sucks.
The central gimmick (the subversion and deconstruction of various Star Wars tropes) is really not that clever. Star Wars is a kiddie space fantasy adventure from the late 70s/early 80s; it doesn't take a genius to point out that it's unrealistic.
The characters are all boring, the resolutions to the various plotlines are either contrived (Benicio Del Toro just happens to be in the next cell!) or disappointing (one of the throwaway minor characters kills herself), and the acting is awful. Daisy Ridley hasn't improved from TFA, Mark Hamill is flat and monotone, Laura Dern seems to be reading her lines off cue cards, and Adam Driver looks like he's about to cry in every scene.
It also kills off Luke, which is a seriously stupid and terrible idea. Star Wars is the story of Luke Skywalker, and the further it got from that, the worse it got.
Star Wars is a dead franchise and TLJ is the reason why
>never made sense to me why so many fans disliked it when AotC, TFA, and RoS exist.
Because nothing in the film makes sense
have a nice day
obvious bait
this movie is the reason I stopped caring about anything star wars and will never watch any new movies or tv shows they make with the IP ever again
This movie had some legitimately good ideas like making Luke a demoralized hermit. It just had poor execution. Should have given it to Rian in the beginning so he wouldn't have to try to make art from JJs nostalgia money maxer slop.
Yoda was so nice of a plotline Disney can't let go of that teat, that shitshow Kenobi show also retconned in he turned into a demoralized hermit for a bit. I bet their one regret is they couldn't kill him off too, since the originals already did that.
You know in hindsight I wonder if they thought everyone was super inspired by Obi-Wan's sacrifice or if they remembered that nobody in the OT besides Luke talked about him, not even Leia. Probably not, they can't remember shit about the good movies, but still.
TLJ was a half-measure. There were some neat ideas but they never execute to their full extend and instead just revert back to the beginning.
Rey and Kylo Ren should have joined together at the end and that would create a more dynamic and interesting final film.
>The Last Jedi was a great film. Easily the third best Star Wars film (tied with RotJ). It never made sense to me why so many fans disliked it when AotC, TFA, and RoS exist.
You will NEVER change the negative perception TLJ rightfully earned
Fans were already burned out with the prequels and they totally lost all faith with the sequels. Star Wars is dead.
ffffffaaaarrrrrrrrtttttttttt
As a film on its own it's great no doubt, problem comes it's the 7th chronological movie in a vast series with tons of expanded material so it takws too many liberties in ignoring those to set up its own plot.
Depressed Luke is a good idea but it doesn't work with what the previous 3 (4) films set up about him, a stoic pacifist Luke would've worked better instead of a poor old man stuck in a dirty island.
A gentle reminder for (you):
REAL Star Wars fans HATE disney star wars.
See I actually like some of the ideas it had (Punished Luke, Rey's heritage being whatever etc.) but it was just so genuinely awful in execution that I can't in good conscience say it was good or even remotely average.
>that scene when Luke caught Rey doing Force Skype with Kylo like some bizarre teenage romcom scene
What the frick
homosexual.
At least when men frick me, I don't pretend it's straight, troony.
Only trannies and homosexuals like or defend Last Jedi. Any insult from you is meaningless.
Technically it’s a great movie
BUT
It is an awful Star Wars movie. It ruins it by deconstructing everything that was good about it.
Oh boy, it's time for Cinemaphile's contrarian arc with the sequels just like with the prequels. Coincidentally, it starts off with the most controversial and hated of the trilogy, gee I wonder why
there were always shills defending Last Jedi, israelite
Here we go again.
Punished Luke demands more media literacy than can be reasonable expected from chuds and trannies. None of you even recognize the significance of the location it was filmed in and how it relates to the story.
Fine, I'll say it: Le Shiggy Donatello
>The Last Jedi was a great film
No. The Finn-Rose failed, useless subplot alone is enough to make it bad.
>It was less than these others
>ergo, it was great
*less bad