For all of its flaws, Lynch still did the best job at capturing the dreamlike/acid trip nature of the books. If you think about it, he was always the best suited for the job. Too bad they didn't let him cook.
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Indeed. Unfortunately the redditors on this board won’t give this movie the fair shake it deserves.
I have seen far more people praising the movie in the last 5 years than trash it. You haven't discovered some underrated gem zoomy.
But Lynch is reddit: the director
That's why he hates it now
go back
Best you were going to get with practical FX. To hold that against a director is moronic. How well would pretentiousness French homosexual done Dune with practical FX and no CGI?
The real flaw is that even with the spicediver cut, the last hour of the film still feels rushed. It needed to be a 4 hour film unironically, if not a two parter. That isn't Lynch's fault at all, but it is a fault of the movie.
Can’t think of any movie that broken up
into two parts in that time. There was TV miniseries that did this like IT. Studios were too scared that is first one bombs they’d be stuck with second half that nobody wanted
That's why I said a 4 hour movie if a two parter could not be done.
Only the most die-hard book nerds would suffer through a 4 hour movie, and they'd probably still shit on it afterwards. There's no winning.
>That isn't Lynch's fault at all, but it is a fault of the movie.
that's why Lynch doesn't want to revisit the movie, he knows he fricked it up when writing/approving the screenplay
for all the effort Mr Spicediver put into his cut, he can't fix the problem of missing scenes. For this reason Spicediver isn't any better than the other two cuts of the film.
>implying practical FX is bad
He's implying completely the opposite to that, can you even read?
Do I have to break his post down to you? I remember learning reading comprehension in 2nd or 3rd grade.
>best you were going to get (implying limitations)
>to hold [practical effects] against a director is moronic
>how well would [Villeneue] have done with the same constraints, framed rhetorically
Seriously anon. I know English is your native language, how can you fail so badly at understanding it?
Lol okay anon. Let me explain.
Practical fx ARE a constraint. That's why everything is CG now.
Not because they are inferior.
Because they are harder to do.
That anon wasn't implying practical fx were bad. He was implying they are hard to do and require insane talent to pull off, which Vilnoove doesn't have.
Is english YOUR first language or are you just a turbo sperg who can't into lingual nuance?
Practical effects are not a constraint. They're more expensive and "harder" than ctrlC-Ving a Blender model 3000 times over, but that doesn't mean they're difficult to the point that they're a limitation
They are a limitation. You couldn’t shown them riding worms like did in new movie with practical FX. Unless you used stop motion models which look real bad
Okay, you're right that they constrain scale in some way but I don't think a movie's quality suffers from that. I'd rather see a well-choreographed closeup of 20 men fighting the Battle of Agincourt rather than all 20,000 at once. For worm-riding in practical just do it close-up with wider shots of practical worms, exactly same principle as pilots and miniature vehicles
Except they literally are.
Bruce the mechanical shark barely worked so had to shoot POV most of the time.
In the Thing sequel they ditched all the puopets they had made cos the director changed all the angles he wanted to shoot at rendering the puppets absolutely useless.
A 3D model has no such limitations anon.
Practical fx literally are constraining you fricking imbecile.
Puppets need control/llers in them.
Miniatures can look like utter garbage if not shot right.
Makeup and prosthetics melt/detach if they get too hot etc etc.
Example for you;
The sandworm miniature puppets looked shot in real sand, so had to use ground glass powder that would have literally killed the puppeteers if they inhaled any by accident.
How is risking your crew's lives for a shot of a puppet not a constraint?
>names two perfect counter-examples
The Bruce puppet fundamentally changed how Jaws was shot and composed, and it's widely praised as an example of how it actually improved the movie. The Thing is also praised for the quality of its practical effects
Bruce being nearly impossible to work with forced them to get clever with angles and use POV shots.
The puplets in the original Thing were masterpieces, but they literally had to be shot how they had been storyboarded because puppets need operators.
In the SEQUEL the director scrapped the storyboards amd changed all the angles which meant all the puppets the fx team had made couldn't be used because the new shots would be looking right at the puppeteers and all the mechanical arms and wires sticking out of them. THAT is the constraint, they are literally constraining to use. Ffs why am I wasting my time
I concede practical effects are constraining in that sense of the word, but that in and of itself does not detract from the quality of a movie and in fact even may improve it
Then explain why Tremors and The Thing are fricking amazing and their CGI sequels look like dogshit rolled in broken glass.
You're so fricking stupid. The work that those shots took to achieve is staggering anon. The hundreds of hours of planning, building the props, testing them, getting the angles right, hiding the arms, cranes, wires, hands.
A studio/hack director sees all that work and expense and realises that it's better to have some indian knock up some shit on blender for 50 rupees.
No-one said they detracted anon. Quite the opposite. Everyone prefers practical effects, I doubt you'd find anyone on Cinemaphile that would say otherwise.
>You're so fricking stupid
I’m talking outcomes and you’re talking inputs. Who#the big poopoohead now?
>Need to be inside the puppets
Just use wires and shit which you edit out.
True, but the results speak for themselves, no? Shit, the best sandworm in DUNC was the 'little maker' that was drowned. That shit had to have been a puppet in part.
Can you?
There's a massive amount of practical effects in Dunc.
Honestly impressive how they actually grew a giant worm
The thopters were full scale. The Arrakis palace interior were also full physical sets.
If I recall making off stuff correctly, the CG thropters are edited over sequences shot with conventional helicopters, to get all the proper movement, wind and dust effects etc.
Then they use the full scale thropter models for all the shots with people inside them.
I wish I could take the pieces that work. Like the feeling of the ornithopter in the theater with the sound blasting. Bravo Dunc.
And they are surrounded by cgi and spammed with filters until they look indistinguishable from cgi.
If it was all cgi it would be the same
>Best you were going to get with practical FX
This is just a weird thing to point out.
>DunE
Was it really that hard? I might have taken Dunc seriously if the font wasn’t so ill conceived. Right off the bat I knew it was gonna suck because of that and I was right. Didn’t bode well.
What the frick are you talking about, b***h?
Someone escort this homosexuals out please.
The font of the Dunc poster, you fricking troon.
It's not bad but there is really just too much to cover in a movie.
its more memorable than DUNC though
I watched DUNC 2 and for some reason I just kept wanting it to hurry up and be over. It's weird because I somehow kept expecting the surreal vision that Lynch had but it never happened. I dunno, when he drinks the magic worm pee the whole scene is so crazy. In Dunc 2... I honestly can't remember because I fell asleep (I was up for 24 hours) but if it was anything like the mom scene it wasn't that crazy. Also on Lynch Dune the whole messiah thing plays differently and the scene where he goes "my name is a weapon" is so good and especially "FATHER, THE SLEEPER HAS AWAKENED". Dunc version he's just pissed and I liked the first movie more.
Lynch's Dune is 100% kino is
>visuals
>casting
>soundtrack
>tone
But the story is just terribly gutted.
>Also on Lynch Dune the whole messiah thing plays differently
It's played 100% literally and is dumb.
Villeneuve’s DUNC guts both story and supporting characters for dull brutalist second-unit vistas and pointless crap like the Sardaukar planet, watering the trees (which anyone with a fricking brain would do at night, not in the middle of the day), and what seemed like hours of people walking across landing pads.
DUNC has way better characterization even with the meme casting. I'm a lynch fan but it's a lot harder to suspend your disbelief with his version
>it's a lot harder to suspend your disbelief with his version
Only if you're low IQ
No not really, I could maybe understand if you relate more to tranime than real people
Seethe more, Villememe
I agree. Old unpopular thing is le good, and new popular thing is le bad.
yes. Things should be good instead of bad
You say this while posting AI art.
>y-y-y-you
hahahaha holy shit.
Yes. Old flawed but good thing should be considered good, while new shitny bad should be considered bad
shit sucked more balls than you're mom
>:OOOOO THE DREAM LIKE ACID TRIP NATURE OF SOMETHING, MY DUDE!
This.
Can any of you morons explain what was so psychedelic about the books?
It's a book about a far-future feudal space empire where the nobility is addicted to a drug that make their eyes glow blue and they're surrounded by space-witches that use advanced mind-control techniques and autistic people whose brains work like supercomputers, and deformed mutants that live in tanks use the drug to see into the future to allow FTL travel, and also there's a planet where the super-drug comes from and it's full of gargantuan worms that react to rhythmic sounds and desert people that wear suits that capture and reprocess their sweat and urine and also they ride on top of the worms using with hooks.
And this was written in 1965, which was before Star Trek even aired. It was fricking mind-blowingly imaginative for the time that the only way you could ever have come up with it was to be stoned out of your mind.
The only way you wouldn't get how fricking weird this was is if you were exposed to 50+ years of science fiction that was directly influenced by it.
NTA
Voyage to Arcturus is much weirder than Dune and it was published in 1920
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Voyage_to_Arcturus
Dune is bizarre but not psychedelic. Dune is consistent and makes sense according to its own set of rules, more or less
Alia is there and she is shown
>Voyage to Arcturus is much weirder than Dune and it was published in 1920
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Voyage_to_Arcturus
what the frick did I just read?!
A science fiction masterpiece. A tour de force. The sensation of having your imagination ripped open and seeing imagery you never dreamed of before
It's imaginative, not "trippy". Hell, it's downright dry most of the time, focusing on characters having clearly defined internal conflicts and weighing the implications of their choices based on an abundance of information, in a world of (almost) perfectly defined rules.
If you can't delineate 'trippy' from psychedelic you shouldn't be participating in this argument. You should try mushrooms.
you are 100% wrong here. Other guy is right, the books are dry. That's not to say they're bad, because they aren't, just that they are nowhere near "trippy" or "psychedelic"
NTA but what do you think this adds to the discourse? Are you able to make a point or are personal attacks via cartoons what passes for debate a,ong your misbegotten kind?
>NTA
Sure, OP.
Sorry you’re too much of a pussy to handle psychedelics you weak little b***h.
Okay, drug addled hippy
You can't talk like a bugman weakling beta male then suddenly do a 180 and try your hardest to sound like a BADASS alpha chad, no-one is going to believe you.
That is literally all in your head.
The books aren't like an acid trip you mong. They're weird but take themselves seriously
>but muh 80s
>muh Sting
Frick off!
I'm about to finish the book. 50 pages left. Then I will watch all 3 films. Which version do you think is closer to the book in feel and not skipped/changed scenes?
Feel? Lynch. Getting all the plot? Syfy series.
The Lynch version has the most soul and captures the aesthetics and psychedelic feel of the book the most, but sacrifices everything that's not directly related to the core plot to squeeze it all into a 2-hour 15-minute runtime.
The SyFy miniseries loses the least from book to screen, but looks and feels very cheap and amateurish.
The Villeneuve version strikes a balance by getting in most of the main plot elements right without losing too much, and looks good, but it's kind of soulless with none of the psycadelic aspects of the books, and the aesthetics are very spartan.
Dunc drops every single character relationship and piece of worldbuilding for the sake of barebones plot, and may as well have just slapped a sepia filter on every single shot its so muddy and lifeless.
>He doesn’t reference the 182 minute cut
Plebeian.
>psychedelic feel of the book
lol
The Alan Smithee cut of the Lynch film is my favourite, followed by Spicediver’s cut. For most faithful adherence to the plot the TV series is best. Watching DUNC 1&2 after these will make you wonder how Villeneuve could possibly have shat out so many hours of movie while simultaneously eliminating so much from the books.
Everything Villainoov cut could fill a book
I dont give a frick about the books because being accurate doesnt mean it is a good movie. The lynch movie is honestly better because it isnt the same depressing atheist subversion of the heroes journey like the books and it is more of a timeless positive story of a hero which inspires hope
Supposedly David Lynch's first cut was originally 3.5 hours, and he actually tried to release a 4-hour VHS director's cut version.
DUNC 2, a visual tour de force
wouldn't be too bad if 100% of the movie looked like this.
>thing...is BIG
>ooooh big
>uhhh scale
It's all he can do in that movie, it's pathetic.
I would be ok with the grey filter but the architecture and vehicle design are boring an uninspired
Dunc is too much informed by the current day. It lacks the aristocratic spirit.
Been seeing clips of it recently, looks fricking dreadful. Just contrarians on here for the sake of it, Dune part 2 is amazing and you tards are trying to the 5 square translucent shields.
>hurrr why don’t these forty year old special effects hold up today
Go eat a Tide pod you fricking zoomer dipshit.
Those special effects looked like shit 40 years ago. The space scenes looked Dr. Who level, and not new Who, old Who.
No. Those special effects looked great for the time, especially in the cinema. I should know, I saw it in the cinema on release.
It’s only with the advent of far higher resolution screens today that the seams are showing.
It’s also why Lucas reworked the SFX for Star Wars when he did the ‘special editions’. Nobody would claim that Star Wars’ SFX were hokey or bad, but as display tech improved they started to show things that never used to show up.
You’re right. With CGI just becomes a massive cluster frick. Wow, 100k CGI people fighting. Versus up and close and smaller scale to make it more personal and brutal
>lmao contrarians pretending to like it
>no, I have not actually seen the movie
Lol
Penis also pussied out of showing Alia, one of the most awesomely bizarre and unsettling parts of the book and the Lynch version.
No Alia? No ticket.
HOLY SHIT DUNC 2 HAS NO ALIA? FRICKING KEK WHAT A SHITSHOW
it literally did though
she was present throughout the movie
Prove this to me or I will only believe the other anon forever
She is a cgi fetus and a flash forward of ayyylmao anon ignore this moron.
Paul kills Vladimir in Dunc 2.
>doesn't appear and scare the fremen
Gay movie
Shove your cgi fetus and ayyylmao flashforward up your arse denis, we wanted Herbert's unsettling preborn child who terrified everyone and killed Baron Harkonnen.
who cares. everyone wanted Tom Bombadil in the movies but even 20 years later no one gives a shit.
She’s done in a ‘ghost from the future’ kind of way because Villeneuve doesn’t actually understand the books at all.
Alia isn’t supposed to be a weird looking chick speaking to Paul from the future. She’s supposed to be an unnatural abomination that terrifies and repels all who encounter her, no kore so than the Bene Gesserit, for whom she represents an even greater loss of control than Paul (who in the end was not the Haderach).
That's what I didnt get. I'm
And I feel like they just set up Dunc 2 for a third movie. As much shit as the Lynch version gets it's just crazy how rushed everything felt in Part 2 while being like 2 hours 40 minutes long. The first movie was so slow and took it's time, which I really liked, but part 2 there is just so much cutting and time skipping that should feel like weeks or months but it just doesn't feel like it.
SOUL+KINO=SOULINO
quit being a contrarian gay is for the sake of it
>Just go with the flow maaaan
DUNC fans are lying in a fricking Cinemaphile thread to get a book only anon to join their cult. Fricking groomers lol.
Adult Alia is shown in a water of life vision Paul has. Other wise she has a couple lines whispered from the womb into Jessica's mind.
>Alia is shown
Thanks
Yes anon, you win, well done
Tom Bombadil added nothing to the plot.
Alia is a major character who kills the main villain.
Not just Dunc but I hate the dune franchise in general. I never want to hear about it again it sucks. The more i learn about it the gayer it gets.
>the voice (using distorted chipmunk voice to do Jedi mind trick)
>huge worms
>setting is nothing but sand
>they breathe their own shit and spit as a greeting
I can’t stand this gay shit, who the frick is pretending to like it? Like Star Wars or game of thrones I get but Dune? Literally the SAME EXACT SHIT but instead of dragons you have worms and instead of dozens of cool settings you have sand. Frick this shit, never wanna hear about it again, this idea never should have seen the light of day.
I hate star wars with a fiery passion, so I don't go in them.
Hint hint.
Someone get this guy a Jason Statham movie to calm down, he's freakin out
Don’t worry I’m 15 minutes into The Mechanic as we speak to cool off.
>Dunc shills raid in packs, Arisen!
>using distorted chipmunk voice to do Jedi mind trick
>using distorted chipmunk voice to do Jedi mind trick
>HAMBURGERHAMBURGERBIGMACWHOPPER
>(using distorted chipmunk voice to do Jedi mind trick)
Someone get this hothead outta heah
>>they breathe their own shit and spit as a greeting
and how do you think people in Star Wars Spaceships eat and breathe, you dickhead?
David Lynch's dune is genuinely embarassing
I liked new Dune movies but completely forgettable. Lynch’s Dune. The Navigators. Barren who looks like dying of AIDs. Even ridiculous Sting is all memorable
I'd sooner rewatch Dunc 2 anyday over Lynch Dune and im a huge fan of his other movies
t.bookgay
You gotta admit it's impressive that Villeneuve got millions of white girls to watch a scifi story from the 80's
The story is older than that
Was thinking of the lynch movie when I typed that
How did this shit get rated so high especially with that ending? Messiah is going to make no sense unless they just change it
Nah it's dogshit liked by contrarians, latest Cinemaphile watchparty proved it, bunch of gays ironically spamming kino over objectively awful scenes, terrible sfx, terrible acting, dogshit pacing (even worse than dunc). Can't believe I saw people on here arguing the final battle and duel between Paul and Feyd (Sting is trash btw) was better than in dunc 2.
Sting vs Kyle was kino and you're a gay for thinking otherwise. Sting was great amd you can tell he loved every second he was on screen.
I WILL KILL HIM!
And the sfx are absolutely amazing for the time. The janky shields are flawed but what did dunc give us? A brief aura then gone?
I'd rather something genuinely imaginative he attempted and not work than pussy out and make something safe.
>Still mad
>the dreamlike/acid trip nature of the books
This isn't even a thing until multiple sequels later
I have always enjoyed this film as a sparknotes adaptation and out of love for David Lynch. But let's not kid ourselves anon the studio stepped in too much to make this the "next Star Wars" after the finale of the OT. You gays all succumb to boomer nostalgia too much sometimes.
Not that. Just new movie really makes it hard to enjoy. 110 pound twink as Paul. Every time he tries to be a bad ass it’s laughable. Then you got ass ugly Zebdaya looking constipated for most the movie. Waste all time on pointless shit like watering trees
Paul is unambiguously meant to be a twink.
Do you think a person whose name is literally "Desert Mouse" should look like Jack Reacher?
I would be happy if he looked like a man, and one who successfully went through puberty.
Yeah I'm not gonna lie, Timotei's casting I never had a problem with.
The guy isn't a wrestler or a boxer, he's a knife fighter.
Being small and fast is an advantage when you have a razor sharp object at the end of your arm.
This is like seeing little Arya Stark taking out grown men with a sword. You still need weight and strength. Not saying he should be Reacher size. But come on! He
could’ve hit the weights a little
Black person drop a razor-sharp knife on your bare foot.
How much weight and power did that need to you fricking mongoloid.
If Arya Stark is faster and more skilful than you, then you're fricked. End of story.
>This is like seeing little Arya Stark
Chalamet is a little rat weasel of a man, but he is still a man. It is infinitely more believable that a little rat weaselly man became skilful with a knife (watch any trained magician who does knife tricks) than a woman who will most likely simply panic and scream and become useless as women tend to do in dangerous situations.
>he is still a man
Elliott Page is more of a man than Timothee Chamoisly
Don't get me wrong anon I was the first to say that Pattinson was a terrible batman because he didn't hit the weights, and I'm an experienced kickboxer Cinemaphilebro, but we're talking about knives here. Size is a disadvantage there.
Some little wiry c**t with speed but no strength raises his fists at me I'll tank his babypunches until I get one lucky shot in. But same guy pulls a knife and I'm out.
Fair enough. Just tired seeing twinks and ugly ass people in major movies
Yeah someone more handsome would have been better.
Kyle was perfect, if a little too old at the time (26) regal, naive and exciteable, then in the thopter when he realises Leto is dead, then when he cracks the floor after killing Feyd, great moments of development.
Timotei is just an angry emo who alternates between shouting and mumbling.
And Sean Young and Virginia Madsen were absolutely in their primes.
Compare them to Mutt and Pug and it's embarrassing
I literally watched the lynch version for the first time yesterday.
there's a 3 hour fan cut floating around that integrates almost-lost footage and concept art
That's the 'Smithee cut' that I happen to own on disc and its fricking KIIIINOOOOOOO
Yeah I own that one on Laserdisc. Best format for great kino.
Smithee cut is not the same as the fanedit. The former was a 3-hour TV broadcast version while spicediver is a fanedit
KINO
KINO
I
N
O
Mechanically, it does make a bit more sense than the DUNC version. It was cool to watch but this is meant to be a reliable chore for fremen. Paul pulled a suicidal stunt - big, medium, or small worm, no matter.
Why do you Black folk love to pretend this fricking mess is any good at all?
They desperately crave a space opera that isn't Star Wars which has betrayed their lives.
Space opera is a derogatory term for old story scaled up to high technology.
homie what u think Dune is. It's some royal houses fighting each other BUT IN SPAAAAACE! THEY GOT WOOORMS!
The movie shits itself when they meet the Fremen and never recovers
Wrong, it's still shit just like it was 40 years ago.
>The planet called dune
>It's actually called Arrakis
Huh
‘Dune’ is the nickname, ‘Arrakis’ is the formal name. Same way you have a name on your birth certificate but you entire family calls you “wish mom had that abortion”.
>what is slang
>the planet called terra
>it's actually called gaia
>it's actually called earth
Dune is its native Fremen name. Arrakis is what everyone else knows it as.
but what is its secret name?
dunc
David Dunc
B A S U R A
A
S
U
R
A
Will watch lynchdune 3x b4 I watch newdunc atall
>Woah, dude, its so, like, trippy man!
The first 15 minutes are a monologue about a fictitious planet, the last half the movie is a clipshow. Characters are barely developed, relationships arent developed at all. The dialogue is awful. The movie completely misses the themes of dune and doesn't have anything to say on its own. The only redeeming features of the movie are the set design and costumes. Its trippiness is overexaggerated, only the water of life scene is truly dreamlike.
>dreamlike/acid trip nature of the books
Which didn't exist in the books
The books aren’t that weird.
De Laurentiis said it himself as well, that it was a mistake to take Dune off from Lynch's hands. They just got too scared because they couldn't understand what Lynch was doing.
Dunc 2 is fricking awful. The plot felt so small. Just a resistance movie with a few Dune isms. Chani can eat shit and die.
I thought it was ultra cheesy and kinda stupid but the plot was always interesting. I love the new films much more. We have the technology to actually shoot movies like this now. Every thing in the Lynch film requires way too much suspension of disbelief, you almost want to bust out laughing at any the various scenes because of the 80s B-movie acting and shitty sci-fi elements.
The technology was there back then too, it was used in Star Wars. The crew and director of this one simply didn't know what they were doing. The budget was no excuse, the first Star Wars was done on a shoestring budget too, and Tarkovsky showed what could be done with even less.
Even more reason, the mainstream was excited about Star Wars and yet Lynch still delivered at best a cult-classic. Not a hit.
You are a jaded sad person and your opinion is tainted by emotions and a lack of working dopamine receptors.
>inability to understand obvious sarcasm
Sorry I forgot to put /s at the end of my post for mouth-breathers like you
>Muh cgi
Finally we have the technology to make bad 200 millions movies!
BUT the plot and story of dune carries the film and I think its good. Seeing it was the only reason I was interested in the New Ones.
Dunc 2 breaks the 4th wall.
If you watch lynchs dune, you can imagine what is happening at all times off camera. Or imagine the events immediately leading up to or after a scene.
It's verisimilitude.
Dunc has none of that. When Paul rode the worm, you couldn't really think about them trekking to that particular sanddune. Or imagine what happens next, or in between scenes. There is simply no world, no characters. Just a bunch of lines and animations that all shout, I'm dune, in isolation.
>imagine the rest of the movie for us!
yea nice try, there is reason the 80s lynch's dune was a failure and this film is literally the best film of the year by gross profit.
>box office must mean it's good
We're so lucky to live in an era where Marvel releases new cinematic masterpieces every year
I'm sure they're good for people who actually like childrens comics. It's just not my type of movie.
This is such a bunch of horseshit lmao. Lynch's Dune is awful and does nothing better than Denis' Dune besides using more lines from the novel word for word
Movie is shit once he meets the Fremen. The pacing goes off the rails. Before that it is kino and the art direction all throughout the movie are kino.
Everything about Lynch's Dune was perfect. It was stunning. Bizarre.
>
>dreamlike/acid trip nature of the books
the books are extremely dry what the frick are you even talking about
Yeah cause it's a desert planet. What's your point?
It's the fan edit better than dunc?
Even the stillsuits look better in Lynch's Dune. Denis' films look like grey floating piles of shit
For all its flaws, I like the world of Lynchs Dune better. It seems more like a fantastical galaxy in the far future, following a universal purge on computers and machinery. Whereas DUNC just kinda feels like your average near-future Earth science fiction.
>For all of its flaws, Lynch still did the best job at capturing the dreamlike/acid trip nature of the books.
lol you never even opened the book. but you are right to troll the jodo gays