Future Batman asserting her dominance over current Batman!!!

Just play along with me here, TOCA.

Latex allergies actually tend to cause horrible rashes instead of sniffles.

Yeah, not much cute about Cass scratching herself, moaning in pain as her bed aggravates the skin, or having to apply cream to lessen the pain.
Rashes aren’t fun at all.

Yes, discussing comics. Its fun.

No, compulsive is continuing to follow a character despite not liking how she's been written since 2006.

But enough about babsgirl

What did you win? A company that makes bad comics?

>self insert for Morrison, plz read.
its been more than a decade you need to move on

realize that Morrison hasn't touched the character in actual years

Its alright anon, Didio made sure they lost his number and he'll never work for DC again.

Ironically Puckett doubling down on making an anti-Babs is exactly why Babs came back. If they just made a cute redhead expy of BTAS Babs in 99, she'd be like Tim; an accepted successor to the classic. Instead he made a Batgirl nothing like what people want out of Batgirl.

>hey this characters has nothing going on and no one cares about them
>just make a new character exactly like her that'll work perfectly!
sure

Steph's Batgirl run is a great place to start! It's pretty self contained (though some have said the Batman RIP period is a lot to take in - I'm not wholly convinced, but let someone know on here or in a discord comic community if you have trouble), and a very enjoyable (though of course not perfect - still a monthly superhero comic, with all the pressures and problems that come from that).

If you really like that, she's a major character in Tim's Robin run #1-128, pops up in Cass's Batgirl run starting with issue 20 reasonably frequently until issue 53. Currently, she's in Batgirls, and before that, was in Young Justice by Bendis, and before that, Detective Comics by Tynion.

Everyone does. I think that it started the trend of the robins being so opposite to their precedessor.

I can get disliking changes (i do some times too), but with DC its a bit of a slippery slope that affects all major characters.
[...]
Cass is made of pure muscle too, for her size. And she is quicker so even from a realism angle i am not sure. And both of them are leagues avobe real world Olympic athletes (which is pretty unrealistic given how much punishment both of them take tbh)

But hey that's your take, i think resurrection pools are a better place to draw lines. Or batman being able to hurt literal metahumans whose physical strenght far surpasses the limit between him and cass. But you can do whatever you want anon.

I dunno. I just think there's too much instarage and memehate for characters like Duke and Harper (who, I won't deny, have been pretty poorly handled, but I don't think they're nearly as bad as people say).

Well, Harper has a brother, is performatively queer, and is an electrical engineer. That's not really Stephlike, to me. There are a fair number of similarities, though. I like more of Harper's stories than Duke's, though.

I still say that Cass dodging bullets after their firing is just artistic license in depicting aimdodging.

Thanks! Guess I'll get to reading her Batgirl soonly.

Duke was fine until they had him put on a costume and join the Batfamily, which completely ruined the hook from We Are Robin. Harper's problem is that she was created as a stand-in for Steph, only for Steph to come back.

Cass being faster really isn't as important as you think it is from a real world perspective, it's essentially just pic related.
I do think Batman hurting metahumans is also stupid though, frankly he has no place on the Justice League as is. If he's going to fight metahumans then he really needs to be more like Iron Man, or at the very least use the Insider suit.

I think Harper is just a worse Steph tbh, but Duke's perfectly fine (even if he had a better role at first). Maybe if Harper was created while Steph was around id think differently.
[...]
I mean sure, but cass is unrealistically fast. Like dodge bullets fast. In genral DC just operates off different rules. They also have that "nerve clutch" thing. Which im pretty sure doesnt exist in real martial arts.
(Not to menton the entire fundation behind all the flashes)
If we go uber realistically then sure :p.

Arguments about realism don't have a place in a franchise based around a billionaire ninja scientist detective who rides around in a rocket car and fights an evil clown. You want realism? Batman wasted years of his life learning all the martial arts because the fundamentals are all the same and a lot of what he learns is going to be useless in a real fight. Batman's knowledge of science would be fairly surface level because he simply lacks the time to reach mastery of the fields within the limits of his training. He doesn't actually do any detective work. He'd be immediately picked up on CCTV that are everywhere in an urban setting. It'd be almost impossible for him to get around Gotham quickly because the Batmobile would have to deal with traffic and stick out like a sore thumb, the Batwing would cause injuries and property damage because it's a VTOL jetcraft flying down city streets, and his grapnel gun would wrench itself out of his hand when he tried to swing from building to building - assuming he could even get the thing to properly attach to buildings. Even a few short years of action weighed down by his costume would give him knee and back injuries. His cape would get in the way and catch on everything. Even with all his training and armor he'd get his shit wrecked trying to fight more than 2 guys at once and even 2 would be a major risk. Most of his gadgets would be completely useless in a fight. Even with an armored cowl he takes enough major head injuries to get Chris Benoit special. So do we really want to play the realism card?

A more grounded setting has Bruce as mediocre fighter who mostly win with tech and psychological effects(as he'd be mostly a detective, he'd be for but unlikely to come close to win any tournament), and Cass as martial savant who would be able to best him in a straight fight (which Bruce would usually avoid) but would be unable to defeat bigger guys that are reasonably competent in fighting

>Anon, he's basically just complaining about powerlevelling stuff

What is the problem of "power lvl stuff"? People always b***h over it but seriously what is the problem of being consistent on the characters abilities? This is being logical and consistent, this is good writting.

>a writer can always manufacture a scenario for one character to win over the other, so its a bit weird to get so hung up on it
No problem with that, the issue is when some random character overpower the other in a situation only superior skill or strenght could be the answer, like Penguin and Batman trading punches with Bruce being K.O

In a "grounded setting", a woman half Bruce's weight would never seriously beat him in a fight. Technique doesn't make up for muscle, height and weight nearly as much as you think it does.

Bruce is an autist who spent his life pumping iron, consuming protein, learning combat styles, practicing parkour and military stealth techniques.

A realistic Bruce would be unhealthy and weak as frick because he never sleeps and doesn't give himself recovery time from strenuous activity, nevermind injuries.

Earth One did do that, and it was pretty boring.

You can't get too grounded with Batman. No matter what anyone says, Batman is fundamentally unrealistic.

You can do batman without the outright supernatural stuff, but that does not equal realistic per say.

Theyre not particularly realistic either, and both of them also dont ahve the super duper training batman's gotten over the years.

Kek, saved

You should mention that Batman is somehow strong as a top-tier weightlifter, fast as a top-tier runner, has a build of a top-tier bodybuilder and hits harder than a top-tier boxer.
Handwaving it with "muh peak human" instead of straight-up calling Batman a superpowered/mutant doesn't even come close to having it make sense.
At least with the likes of Captain America and Deathstroke there's a flimsy excuse of "muh magical steroids".

>aren't mutually exclusive traits
Most professional fighters don't participate in weight-lifting competitions on any top-tier scale.
Most professional bodybuilders would most certainly not take first-to-second place in a race between best-ever runner athletes.
Batman is absolute bullshit on any level.

Bane explictly is on the same exact physical space as Bruce without venom, its a point that their trainings are very similar. And croc has superpowers at this point.

O'Neil, get off Cinemaphile already.

>You really think someone would do that? Just go on the internet and tell lies?

The approach they were aiming for was sustainable enough and Babs found herself a niche. DC killed the interest themselves when they forced Babs into being Oracle again. Turns out, nobody cared about seeing that. They could've just replaced the rotten egg that was Castelluci with some new, decent writer and Babs could easily chug along for the next 10 years.

Isn't that the argument Cassgays love to use when confronted with the cancellation if THEIR book?

Cassgays had 6 years, Babsgays had 10. Cass was better in a year than Babs was in10 years of solos

> Babs can be good if you guys be her another 5 years! The s-Scott run..

>if babs is on a page for less than 3 panels, the rest of the characters should ask "where is babs?"

Well except for pre-crisis Jason, but that's probably why. They really dont want to repeat that.

And no i agree, hell you could say the same criticisms of silver age DC.

nothing after flashpoint is canon nor matters. Cass winning a fight isn't a big deal unless she's fighting mid-high tier metas. Leslie and Alford were canonically fricking even as disgusting old people

Seniors have lives too.

Everyone does. I think that it started the trend of the robins being so opposite to their precedessor.

I can get disliking changes (i do some times too), but with DC its a bit of a slippery slope that affects all major characters.

It doesn't even matter that she had that much training, her body is still nowhere near his level of physical strength. Sure, maybe she's more skilled than him on a technical level, but it doesn't matter when he's twice her weight and made of pure muscle. He would snap her in half like a twig, her punches probably wouldn't even hurt him.
>And really that destroys your disbelief more than any of the hundred of fantastical elements?
Yes.

Cass is made of pure muscle too, for her size. And she is quicker so even from a realism angle i am not sure. And both of them are leagues avobe real world Olympic athletes (which is pretty unrealistic given how much punishment both of them take tbh)

But hey that's your take, i think resurrection pools are a better place to draw lines. Or batman being able to hurt literal metahumans whose physical strenght far surpasses the limit between him and cass. But you can do whatever you want anon.