>Go to Barnes and Nobles
>Comics/Graphic novels now down to one shelf
>Manga has a whole wall in the back to itself along with multiple shelves
What can comics do to reverse this trend?
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>Go to Barnes and Nobles. >Comics/Graphic novels now down to one shelf
>What can comics do to reverse this trend?
Die
Lower their prices. Simple as.
Some new Marvel trades are $45+. The same size ones were 30 a year ago.
45 dollars??? what the frick, why??
It’s why I stopped buying the Conan Epic Collections. 45 bones each.
Hell, I might even pay that price if they would put out another Punisher Epic Collection already. Its been a year since the last one, and from what I can see there's no plans within the next year.
I know there was that time when they were trying to downplay the character, but they kept putting the collections out, and now there's that big Jason Aaron book out now that you'd think they would want to capitalize on with some trades on the shelves.
Just find the Essential collections. Epic collections cost too much and are printed on shitty heavy paper with crap binding. And they cost more than twice as much for less than half the content.
Make things that actually appeal to normal people and hire people who actually want to make good comics people will buy.
> lower prices
> normal people open a comic and see a Twitter tirade illustrated
> never buy an American comic again
Quads of truth.
This. I shouldn't be paying over $50 for 2 paperback books published 10 years ago.
I have a huge collection, but that's because I buy my comics at places like half price books, or other places to get discounted books. The problem is that doesn't necessarily give the company's profit so it doesn't incentivize them to make more books like that. They need to lower their goddamn prices, or Manga is going to bury them
Actually this
DC is actually pretty smart about it sometimes, there are full Batman/Superman/Flash collections for $20 and they're pretty beefy, about as thick as an average manga volume so whenever I get manga I'll pick up a DC book if it looks good
Meanwhile Marvel will sell the first part of a story arc in a book that has the thickness of a slice of ham and charge $30 for it
business 101: promote your product in the mainstream
Comic book movies are as mainstream as it gets
Comic book movies don't promote comic book sales though. They don't even have a 1% conversion rate.
why not?
Because nobody reads comic books
Because the companies that own DC and Marvel treat them as IP farms rather than profit generating branches of their company so they don't bother to promote the comics. They are content to let the comics just be "over there" as long as they don't cause any trouble to the parent company that reaches mainstream media (like the whole batdick fiasco or New Warriors or the Avengers-Northrop Grumman team-up book). I don't think they even understand how manga came to be so popular across the world today.
ffs, DC and Marvel couldnt even take advantage of the pandemic to grow their readerbase to the same extent as manga readership grew. I hate the stupid powerlevelhomosexualry East vs West spam threads we get on Cinemaphile but the "sjw" stuff they shove into the comics alienates old readers while failing to attract any new ones because the people who care about that kind of shit DONT BUY BOOKS. What's the point to pandering to a group when you can't convert that pandering into sales?
>the "sjw" stuff they shove into the comics alienates old readers while failing to attract any new ones
There's really far less of it than sensationalists make it seem like. Anytime it happens the page will be spammed on Cinemaphile for months. Stories being dull is a much bigger problem than "SJW" shit.
Yeah, meant to clarify. See
It's not the woke stuff. It's just the failure to convert any of their recent moves into meaningful growths in readership.
The stories are dull because of the SJW shit. All the writing effort goes into preaching about the current thing rather than telling an entertaining fricking adventure.
>The stories are dull because of the SJW shit.
I can think of at least five other reasons the stories are dull that are much more common and endemic to capeshit than the SJW shit.
because whenever it does happen its so blatant it destroys any realism in the story.
you are always left questioning in your head exactly why the author made x character x skin color or race or gender
in the setting?
its also readily apparent when authors do
out of character hack jobs to push a sjw/globohomosexual message through.
it stops the reader from giving a shit about anything really.
we go into comicbooks and manga as a form of escapism.
when the disgusting real world propaganda is thrown into our faces it kills the viewers connection with the story.
popular manga and anime like one piece or mha are chock full of wish fulfillment and fan service and appeal to escapism.
90% of the female cast in MHA were literally created to cater as many people as possible.
between skimpy clothing and one dimensional personalities that borderline between being literal word for word copies of tropes.
anime and manga perhaps appeals far too much towards its fanbase.
whilst comics don’t even bother these days to do the bare minimum and when they do its done so poorly whilst still stuffing down the propaganda down our throats.
Let me be clear, the woke stuff isn't the problem. The problem is both companies failure to acquire new readers. Lots of people stopped reading comics during the late 80s to 90s but enough new people got onboard that they managed to sell more comics than ever before (even before the speculator bubble)
This is why I feel that the only good move DC has made in ages is getting into webtoons while the webtoons market is still growing. They've manage to get the attention of readers that otherwise wouldn't pick up a comic from the big two. I wonder if they'll be able to convert those readers into comic sales
>the woke stuff isn't the problem
Oh yes it is anon. The way it's being handled by untalented political activists is exactly the reason why the genre is dying. This shit is supposed to be about escapism and telling a cool story that convinces boys and girls that it's cool to be altruistic and put others first and work together to achieve a common goal and all that good stuff. Peppering all of that with woke sensibilities doesn't work because those exact sentiments will be placed at the front of the comic first and foremost.
I don't give a FRICK about Sam Wilson crying about crime in black neighborhoods and corrupt cops. There's corrupt policeman and fricked up shit happening everywhere. Why does every black hero have to be some fricking spokesman on discrimination and shit? The way these amateur writers go about it is really "after school special". Instead of telling a good story with some fantastic art the writers go for making allusions to their ideologies.
>this entire medium NEEDS to be this one certain way
this kind of moronic thinking is why manga will forever be king
Old comics also talk about how terrible cops are anon, it's a big part of vigilantism
It's actually deceptively simple.
Anime series are mostly 1 to 1 adaptations of their manga counterparts and will often end with a cliffhanger or unfinished storyline where you'll either wait for the next season (if there even is one) or just read the rest of the story in the manga. This is why so many anime adaptations end up unfinished or sharply drop in quality after the first season or two, they already drew in the people they needed and those people are now buying the manga to know what happens next. That's all anime adaptations ever were, advertisements for the source material.
Now contrast this against comic book movies where often the only thing the movie has in common with the comic it's adapting is a couple of characters, the very basic premise and the name. No one's gonna want to read the Civil War comic after they watch the Civil War movie because the comic is completely different with a totally different storyline and cast of characters. Plus most of the movies are self-contained so it never leaves the audience curious about what happens next, the only time this happened was with Infinity War but, again, that movie is so different from the Infinity Gauntlet storyline that no one in their right mind would think reading it could ever be replacement for whatever movie would come out the following year continuing the story.
I think it's no coincidence that one of the most successful comics in recent years was Injustice, being an alternate universe directly tied to a video game a ton of people played meant it was just extremely easy for those players to make the jump into reading the comic.
If Marvel and DC were able to do more stuff like that they'd be literally printing money.
The fact that Marvel didn't come out with anything to coincide with the release of Spider-Man for PS4 is genuinely mind boggling.
>If Marvel and DC were able to do more stuff like that they'd be literally printing money.
The only reason Injustice worked at all was because it was a goddamn fighting game with a barebones story, and the comic was supplementary material to explain the bigger story in detail. That does not translate well at all to any other media.
Injustice was also fortunate enough to have good branding.
You tell someone to read the Injustice comic and they instantly know what it is.
Spider-Man City at War is a much harder sell in comparison.
>City at War
Oh wow it's a TMNT reference for all those 40-year-old people who actually read the original run of TMNT back in the day
People flocked to Injustice because it had Batman and Superman fighting each other and it was one of the earlier digital first comics.
Kinda would like to see something like that done as a side project of some sort.
A standalone Spider-Man/Superman/Batman/Avengers/Whatever comic (in it's own continuity) that is then followed by a mostly faithfull animated adaptation.
Brie Larson and other MCU actors literally upload photos of them reading the terrible shit new Marvel comics in social media.
Tell us how that improves sales and by how much
It doesn't but that anon argument was that Movies don't promote comics when is obvious that that is literally false.
Specially with how they're literally adapting the new comics into movies and comics are still selling like shit.
Tell us how it improves sales and by how much
Anon i literally told you that it doesn't.
That was the original anon’s point and you’re arguing with him. His point is that the movies don’t improve sales or promote sales growth. You said he’s wrong. Your point must be that the films promote sales growth. Tell us how it does and by how much. If you think it doesn’t then you’re just an idiot for no reason. That’s worse than being on the wrong side of an argument. You say someone say something and have decided to argue with them by making the same point but stupider.
Alright maybe I misread what anon said.
My point is that even when Marvel movies and actors do promote Comics on their social media those comics are still not selling even with the MCU popularity.
You should read more
In before 'stop being woke'
That would do it though
No, it wouldn't. 'Anti-woke' types don't read comics, unless they're being written by other 'anti-woke' types, and even then it's just to support some 'own the libs' narrative. You really expect Alex Jones or Jordan Peterson or Dick Fuentes to go into a comic shop to buy something willingly? Don't be stupid.
No, but I could see them shill it to get like-minded listeners to do so.
>'Anti-woke' types don't read comics
People who opposed wokeness were the audience of comics for the many decades before that was even a thing. Shut the frick up.
The people on twitter and youtube who are apart of the anti woke crowd are a small minority that have no real impact on sales
Richard Meyer's books and EVS aren't selling 100k+ copies dude
This will obviously be a surprise to you but there are many of us who find the CG and rippaverse homosexuals to be just as insufferable as the actual homosexuals running the big 2.
t. Spends 100 a month still at the LCS on comics that aren’t the big 2.
>the people who were always relentlessly bullied, beaten and mocked for being different have always hated those who are relentlessly bullied, beaten and mocked for being different
Yeah, sure, okay, buddy, now tell me the X-Men haven't been consistently some of Marvel's top sellers for the last 40-50 years despite being built on a platform of tolerance and acceptance
By not insulting fans, blatantly using comics as a platform for ideology, and being generally entertaining.
>blatantly using comics as a platform for ideology
The X-Men.
The fricking X-Men. Not built from the very start on a 'platform for ideology'.
Jesus fricking Christ you're a dense motherfricker, aren't you.
No, they weren't.
Tons of comics push ideology and have been doing so for decades, but there's a difference between sane, noble ones (we should not judge people by their appearance but by their character) and the blatant anti-cis white male shit
There's also the art of subtlety, which woke writers do not have
I too remember all those times Kitty Pryde said the N word
Damn didn't know magic space phoenix was preaching a message
Why haven't those fans moved on to support the independent, "anti-woke" comics that have cropped up sporadically over the past decade? Like, if the Rippaverse doesn't turn out to be a grift, you better make sure sales blow everything else out of the water
Many have, obviously
Yes if the anti-woke crowd were the lion's share of the audience, everyone would be reading and talking about Alt-Hero or Kamen America instead of being outraged at (but still paying attention to) DC and Marvel shit
Explain EVS's and Eric July's success then. "Many" does not mean "all."
>Explain EVS's and Eric July's success then.
NTA but people are willing to spend money to have their poltiical views affirmed regardless of whether or not they actually see a product. You've proven again and again you're willing to throw money into a pit sure, but not that you actually care about getting a quality product; just the opposite in fact.
>I-it's the politics, I'm sure!
LOL, enjoy your shitty dying comics
Has Eric July actually released any product yet? I get that people have committed millions so it isn't a small.matter, but at the same time it's funny since the only thing people can be assured of is politics
It's literally advertised as not being political
>'Anti-woke' types don't read comics
Define "anti-woke."
Because personally I read plenty of comics.
Just not western comics.
Anti-woke gays are the ones creating and funding new comics outside of the mainstream.
Or have you forgotten that this comic made literally more than 2.5 millions?
A comic that literally promoted itself for being anti woke?
>Or have you forgotten that this comic made literally more than 2.5 millions?
Where is it then? Or are you waiting for him to post updates when he's vacationing in Dubai?
They're all acting like they destroyed the industry when we've literally seen this shit happen again and again: EVS was going to send Marvel and DC a message and, outside of this board, I have literally never seen anyone discuss Cyberfrog. Agent Poso, Jack Posobiec's comic failed to meet its $55k target and he was spamming the shit out of it, saying he was going to set out a new universe of comics that push back against the librul agenda. He actually had some names too, like Chuck Dixion. I don't think any of the other wannabes or CGators have published anything that made an impact outside of their initial crowdfunding campaign and certainly nothing that made it past issue three or four. And this Rippashit is going to go exactly the same way. Will it break the trend? Crazier things have happened, but I'm not expecting them.
Look, bottom line, you want to show me there's a market for anti-woke comics, show me any of their attempts that have lasted longer than a year and managed a steady release schedule with minimal delays. Frick, I'll be kind, any comic that's managed to release 7 issues in 12 calendar months. Shouldn't be too hard, right? And no, not webcomics, the early 2000s showed us literally anyone could shit on paper and post it online and get a rabid following and none of the stuff people flock to like Shittoss, you could draw thirty of those comics a day and come out ahead.
>Where is it then? Or are you waiting for him to post updates when he's vacationing in Dubai?
The cope from Rippalets is fricking tasty. Gonna move those goalposts after the comic gets shipped?
>ask for the comic
>get autistic screeching instead
such is the life of the Rippedoffverse simp
Normal people don’t like woke. It’s not about being anti-woke, it’s about being pro-comic book. Leave whatever city you’re in and you’ll see its true.
>Normal people don’t like woke.
And normal people also don't like 'anti-woke' either, they want an entertaining product of quality, and shit like My Hero MAGAdemia or Kamen America don't fit that category
As much as I don't care for the output of anti-wokeists, one cannot draw an equivalency between the two sides, just as pro-censorship and anti-censorship are not the same. One requires me to be an active participant or makes impositions on my life, the other asks nothing of me and does not intrude upon me.
One side has the backing of the establishment and has the power to gatekeep. The other side is grassroots and individual gadflies who have the power to whine very loudly. If I have to give silent approval to one, even though I dislike both, it would be the grassroots side because they're not the ones doing the most damage. But damn, I would rue the day if the pendulum swings too hard and those guys become the establishment.
>One requires me to be an active participant or makes impositions on my life
????????
You'll note they're not saying which side throughout, just for extra 'wink-wink, nudge-nudge' points.
Censors. Which happens to be the woke side right now, because they have the power to restrict. That's an imposition.
>If I have to give silent approval to one, even though I dislike both, it would be the grassroots side because they're not the ones doing the most damage.
They're still doing damage regardless, they just do it in a way that apparently tricks you into thinking otherwise
>My Hero MAGAdemia or Kamen America
Comics that can't float based on the quality of the writing and have to rely on a gimmick, the same way American Chavez has to rely on 'holy menstruation' or 90% of the #bettercartoon submissions were crying black children
>Leave whatever city you’re in and you’ll see its true.
Do comic book shops really exist outside of cities? I am trying to imagine some rural small town with a population of like 1k supporting a comic book shop, and it just doesn't work. You wouldn't even be able to afford a single employee, let alone the other overhead.
Have you ever thought that comic books are more woke and appeal to people in urban areas because it is impossible for a comic book shop to exist in a rural area?
>I am trying to imagine some rural small town with a population of like 1k supporting a comic book shop, and it just doesn't work
Past the mid-90s, not a chance. My town has a population of about 100k. We had a comic shop that closed in about 2006, and I think the only reason that kept open was because they opened a cafe in the back for parents to sit in while their kids played Magic and Yugioh. Where I live now has a population of about 50k and it's being kept afloat by sales of Funko Pops, Stranger Things and, again, CCGs. The entire back half of the shop is devoted to card game tables and during the holidays, the place is always filled with kids playing them.
Anti-woke types don't read comics specifically because that's the kind of shit they've been having shoveled down their throats since like 2012 with a rapid uptick in 2016.
Yeah. The entire medium needs people who are passionate about comics, the industry as a whole, or just with writing and telling a good story in good faith to the legacy of the characters. As opposed to taking these characters insisting on telling "your" version of them and then having the company run into a wall when the comic gets cancelled.
the fact that you view comics as nothing but marvel/dc shit is the biggest evidence that western comics are fricked
Finally someone with a good sense of logic.
Muh comics have always being political
>what can comics do to appeal to more people
>x would appeal to me
>NO IT WOULDNT YOUR KIND DONT BUY COMICS
You can tell this post is right from all the replies
>the absence of something is the support of anti-something.
No, thats american's cold civil war tactics. Not wanting to talk about your poop is not the same as wanting to talk about not talking about your poop. Obviously if people recognize that the topic is constantly being pushed, they're going to talk about it being pushed.
Any discussion of "X would sell more if they stopped taking a huge shit on customers" is pointless, because the goal is to not sell more product but to shit on more customers. If it was to sell more product, they wouldn't shit on their customers.
Western comics are disappointing. Every time these west vs east threads pop up, someone will post a page from a western comic and comment how great it looks, when in most cases it looks average or outright shit. I always browse through any Cinemaphile recommend list of "GREAT" western comics, and its always disappointing. Arts not good, paneling and the use of perspective is shit, writing is up its own ass, good initial premise is abandoned and never explored.
You could triple the price of manga and it would still sell more. A lot of great western comics are ass. The problem with these discussions is that two completely different hobbies are compared to one another, when they shouldn't be. You're basically comparing mobile games with console games, because they both happen to be games, and that doesn't work. If western comics want to compete with manga, they need to update their quality or look for another customer base. Print smaller booklets and sell them with Happy Meals, or make comics for children to teach them the ABC.
Honestly, the western comics that are aimed at small children are vastly better than the ones being turned into movies and netflix series. All the moving pictures have just highlighted how lacking the original medium was for the IP or how shit is was to begin with.
>All the moving pictures have just highlighted how lacking the original medium was for the IP
It's kind of disappointing how many brainlets there are who can't engage in the act of filling in the gaps of comic/manga panels and absolutely need music to tell them how they should feel during certain scenes
That's just most people in general. The majority of the people in the world aren't heavily invested in anything. Sure, they like stuff, but its just superficial. They'll listen to whatever is popular, watch whatever is popular, read whatever is popular. Honestly, having a hobby you're actually invested makes you smarter than the majority of people in the world just by a bit, even if that hobby is shit.
>Honestly, having a hobby you're actually invested makes you smarter than the majority of people in the world just by a bit, even if that hobby is shit.
I don't think engaging in a shit hobby just to own brainlets and libs is the smartest idea
How many manga characters could a clueless 50 years old walking on the street name?
I bet he/she could name batman,superman, spiderman, wonder woman, flash, hulk, captain america and maybe iron man
So? They remember that shit from the 60s. They don’t keep up with comics, dipshit. They more than likely know it from old movies and tv, not the actual comics. In 50 years you can say the same about Goku
No, they know about the movies and probably watched some of them. If you take movies and merchandising into account comic books generate much more money than manga. Winning on floppy sales is a pyrrhic victory
I honestly don't know anyone who buys singles anymore. I've bought a couple of issues with cool covers to put up in my media room, but I haven't regularly bought comics since about 2005. It's all been trades.
Yeah, then they do that for one issue, two at absolute most, then forget about it for the latest front in the Culture War. Jack Posobeic couldn't even get a comic starring him made via Indiegogo and he was a fricking alt-right media darling at the time!
You don't have to be political, just stop inserting your fetishes you pretend are political opnions into everyhting.
And what 'fetishes' would those be?
Gays, ugly women, redistribution of wealth. Real pervy shit.
>redistribution of wealth
What's wrong with that?
Anon has self deluded himself into think he's bezos
No, seriously, I thought that was something we can all get behind as working-class schmoes.
And how many manga characters can they name? irrelevant question. Most manga don't have characters thousands of people can name, they still sell
Your exact mindset is why both companies keep trying to slap known names onto newer characters and yet still end up selling worse than manga.
Who give a frick about what 50 year old know moron, like they fricken buy comics(support comics) dumbass. It's the younger generation you need to care about and they are in to manga more then comics.
>then
this is the 23rd "then" instead of "than" I've seen today, why the frick are you all so fricking stupid
These people watch anime and consider it reading
4:00am where I live
>cut me some slack
>clueless 50 years old
Is that your target audience?
Comicgays BTFO
Create more adaptations like Invincible, The Boys
Abandon LCS/Direct Market
Focus on GNs
Stop single issue releases
>Create more adaptations like Invincible, The Boys
Garbage books and shows hyped by impressionable millennials?
they increase sales of the comic whether you like them or not
it's how anime & manga work together
True
It worked for Manga
>going to B&N for comics
that was your first mistake. don't you have an actual comic bookstore?
A lot of comic shops unless you’re in a major city just stock new issues and maybe some trades. B&N has more stuff for readers looking to find the best/older stories. Plus they stink and are full of fat losers.
No, they all closed. 🙁
Move to a real city
Real cities are dirty and full of crime. The jucie is not worth the squeeze.
But urban areas suck, and I avoid them like the plague for good reason. Are there any good e-retailers that deal in comics?
It’s not my fault you’re a dork
You go to B&N for plushies and reading The New Yorker.
Those are a thing?
I hate going to comic stores, I will order online rather than walk into one, every single time
Frick that. Comic shops suck and are dying for a reason.
The only people who still go to comic shops are boomers and kids looking to buy TCG packs.
comic shops sell everything at cover price
frick them, i spent thousands on my collection online instead
i encourage everyone to buy online so that our local comic shops can die
Drop the dumbass monopoly that has the entire western industry under the control of wildly out of touch old farts and allow for innovation.
They won't. So the actual answer is "die already"
nothing, it's fricking over
Stop being shit, for one.
turn back time about a decade and a half maybe
>What can comics do to reverse this trend?
No.
Shit, Has Chi-Chi ever had eyes for another man? Has she ever had another relationship besides Goku? Goku barely gave a shit about his marriage and he achieved more than Superman
>Never kissed his wife
>Every time he was in danger, he wasn’t, because his dad made a wish on the dragon balls
Gocucks…
>Let alone a classic one
Stopped reading there. It's not good, but Superman 64 is absolutely a classic.
>but Superman 64 is absolutely a classic.
i know the n64 library wasn't the biggest but have some self-respect
NTA, but you absolutely see more people talking about S64 than Buck Bumble, Forsaken, Body Harvest, Quest 64 or Bio Freaks. It's not a 'classic' in the good way, but it's never gone out the public consciousness and that has to mean something
>but it's never gone out the public consciousness and that has to mean something
yeah, like getting raped by a pack of horses
Yeah, remember that time in '98 when the public was raped by horses?
Good times, man, good times.
I assume anon means it's a classic the way atari ET is a classic.
>but Superman 64 is absolutely a classic.
Anon, classic implies that something is remembered because it was well-liked for its quality.
S64 is infamous, not classic.
Friendo, I think you're getting confused, this is Infamous
>Steals Superman's status as the strongest hero
Lol
can I just point out that the skin tight suits heroes use are absolutely fricking lame when compared to shonen mcs
Shonen protags do be having drip, no cap.
Superhero outfits are lame in general, everyone in MHA and Tiger & Bunny is ugly as frick
I want more badass old man characters.
We were getting somewhere during the tacticool era.
Shame that died out instead of evolving.
I don't mind skintight suits
I do mind when someone makes a new costume design or tries to reinvent a hero's existing design and the big gimmick is armor plating or just 'lines all across the body'
I just imagine the artist being asked to draw a design made more convoluted for no benefit, like Donald going from his sailor shirt to his KH look
branch out of capeshit
when comics were selling the most superhero comics were just one of many genres. even post comics code most comics weren't superhero and wouldn't be until like the 60s.
>50 pages of woke capeshit for $10
>200 pages of based sexualised e-girls and violence for $10
Hard choice
As long as isnt touched by seven seas.
>comics sell so fast there's no need to have too many shelves for them
>manga is just taking up space in the bookstore
Nice try. That isn't how it works.
Yes, it is!
>What can comics do to reverse this trend?
Shonen Jump : West, get western authors a chance to work on a splinter comic, with oversight from japanese editors
Honestly sounds like a neat idea. Entirely new IPs to boot, and if you don't generate enough hype in an allotted amount of weeks, you get axed and someone else goes to bat
Xmen Pinup calendar; every prime number print has a magical ticket to teh Epstein Island
It's probably too late at this point.
Comics never capitalized on their young readers reading kid's comics, so when those kids became tweens and teens, the ones who still have a frick about reading comics turned to manga instead, and many never went back to comics.
What about the next generation of kids though? Why not market comics to them?
They won’t have money
Kids tend to be interested in whatever the older people in their life are into, so if they've got an older sibling or relative who's really into anime and manga, chances are they'll grow to be into anime and manga.
Hell, that's how I got into anime/manga.
I got into comics because my older siblings pirated scans of COIE, Infinite Crisis, and Final Crisis.
Inject new blood and ideas into their comics, and no "generic person whose entire personality is there race/sex/sexuality is now this popular hero" hasn't been a new idea for ten years now
>Go to Barnes and Nobles
For what purpose?
Comicbook stores are dead
Manga are comics / graphic novels you dumb moron
>What can comics do to reverse this trend?
Be good.
They don't sell because they're shit. Sure, there's plenty of classics, but stuff from decades ago really isn't enough. Western comics are currently in this weird state where you have marvel/dc for the boomers and autists, hipster shit nobody cares about, and everything else on webtoon. There's tons of extremely popular comics over there actually, to the point where it's filled this void of western comics. So you have manga and webtoon for a general audience, hipster indie comics for hipsters, and dc/marvel for autists. Manga and webcomics are so much more appealing to people than everything else that most people have no need for western comics that aren't webcomics.
>They don't sell because they're shit
Barnes and Noble is designed to sell shit so this cant be true. People want a few cheap manga volumes to put on their shelf to display beside their funko pops
>people buy manga instead of comics because it looks better on their shelf
Now this is some hardcore cope.
That's why people buy any kind of book in these places, women can't read anon
Manga are literally 1000s of pages long, comics can be < 200
Read something that's not marvel
Or DC.
Get the women and gays out of the cape genre. The superhero genre is the *face* of western comics. If that tanks then broad strokes it's all stinking. So correct the ship. Get the writers who can't write capes to branch off into their own "girl" division. Evidently we need a "shoujo" to the superhero genre or else it'll be dead by 2040. Keep competent writers in their wheelhouse. If a new writer can't get a story going stop giving them new chances with new issue 1's. Have them build up their ability to tell a story by putting them through the paces before just trusting them to run roughshod with characters they have only a working knowledge of. Or, you know, just let them flounder in the branched "girl and gay cape" comics. Separate, but equal. Everything they deliver is it's own locked out continuity that doesn't affect anything in the primary universe. Absolutely nothing.
>modern Japanese comics are always shit
>modern everywhere else comics are generally shit
>modern books are generally shit
Why would I step foot inside a bookstore? Those things just exist to sell Harry Potter merch and Funko pops
>modern Japanese comics are always shit
You didn't read Golden Kamuy, did you?
To his credit, even most people who read manga don't read Golden Kamuy. Lacks the superficial shit that attracts readers in the first place
Holy frick either have a nice day or find something to have joy in.
Stop treating young males as the enemy maybe?
I'm thinking of supporting some good old fashioned 'murrican comics.
Do I get Wolverine Epic Collection 3 or Captain America Epic Collection 15?
Cut down on crossover / huge events, it just confused new readers.
Stop shoehorning multiple other unrelated characters into books, it just confuses new readers.
Tone down the politics, either your audience agrees with you, in which case you're doing nothing, or they don't in which case they're not going to be convinced to change political stances because wonder woman says so.
Step up the animation game.
Films should get tpb follow-up comic adaptations, The films are loose adaptations of existing stories, but a follow-up or tie in comic would act as a good entry point for casuals.
Establish better entry points for readers, casuals don't want to jump into issues 623, or a tpb that is a tie in to another book or part of a big event, manga has a clear advantage in this.
Scrap every single storyline that's going in capeshit and start over with one linear continuity. Have minimal amount of artists and writers working on one superhero. No multiverses. Tie the stories to the movies. So pretty much just do what manga is doing.
There, whole capeshit industry saved.
>let's do another reboot!
DC has done the exact thing you're saying multiple times and it never worked. It never will.
>Scrap every single storyline that's going in capeshit and start over with one linear continuity.
Reboots don't work. Continuity is always going to become a mess the longer you publish shit and more titles there are.
>Have minimal amount of artists and writers working on one superhero.
How is this going to make a difference?
>No multiverses
?
>Tie the stories to the movies.
Fricking horrible idea. Especially when movies will ignore them by default because nobody wants to be tied to whatever a comic has already done.
>So pretty much just do what manga is doing.
Weebs are so annoying when they pretend they understand how the business model works
Bruh
I just did the exact same thing today
>It's over
>LCS exists and that's where all comics are, so B&N carries less and carries more manga which isn't covered by LCS
Whoa...
You literally can't, everything is fricked.
>a whole wall of Manga
>it's only five IPs with 400 chapters each
Is Dick Fight Island one of the big 5?
I don't think you've ever been to a store since that wouldn't even fill a single shelf
I get the feeling you've never set foot in a B&N.
>Capeshits on suicide after seeing this
lol
But nobody replied?
Because they're dead via suicide
>Gigant
Nice.
Wow. Mine is three big double sides shelves AND an entire wall. Although the wall is 80% light novels.
mine had even more manga than that
D'awww, look at RWBY thinking it's one of them. How adorable is that?
Apart from dying out...
>Fire and blacklist all hacks and frickups who instead of delivering a good story push agendas and overtly real-life political shit while shitting on customers
>Initiate a policy to ban hard on pushing agendas and overtly real-life political shit on every writer
>Instead of making more capeshit, branch out into other genres like cyberpunk (and other types of punk), sci-fi, fantasy (including sword and sorcery and more derivates of the fantasy genre), and more
>Actually hire people that are passionate and want to make something fun, cool and essentially an escapism from life
>Encourage the authors to go wild with their products and to explore the settings and characters they created
It got a manga and an anime. So now it definitively is one of them.
>It got a manga and an anime
So did Batman and the Avengers.
>So now it definitely is one of them
lol lmao
>ban political shit
>branch out into cyberpunk
Oh the irony
Not that anon but
>Real-world politics<Fictional politics
>fictional
Don't kid yourself, we are living in a cyberpunk setting, only without the cool tech.
ok but still
>Real-world politics<Fictional politics
Not much of a fan of cyberpunk anyway
Books-a-million has even more manga than this, mine is like three full aisles that span half the store
What really hurts is Ollie’s stores have scaled back their graphic novel sections to almost nothing, used to find great deals in there
>What can comics do to reverse this trend?
Um... Not be shitty?
clearly not the problem though, if anything they need to stop trying so hard and become fun, dumb and trashy
Barnes and Noble probably gets a better deal from manga publishers to keep their stuff in stock.
This is generally not a thing in the book market. Booksellers don't pay until the book is sold, so there's no particular pressure for them to negotiate better deals.
Manga is getting those shelves because of how quickly they sell. Restocking 5 times a day is a hassle.
jesus christ, why cant you just enjoy and support what you like without acting like jealous housewives about others?
They have to blame someone (manga) for destroying the comic industry when they did it themselves
Truth
I'd say have an equivalent of anime, meaning accurate animated adaptations. But that won't happen.
We get those, Invincible happened. The problem is quantity, anime is a primary marketing tool for manga. There are, what, 10x as many new anime per year as American cartoons?
>There are, what, 10x as many new anime per year as American cartoons?
Honestly, closer to 30x.
There are 42 anime running this season, and that's just the ones on TV, not counting movies, shorts, or OVAs.
I thought it might be higher, but was unsure how many new cartoons actually come out each year when you account for the morning children's programming I don't watch
Yeah, and look how much that helped push its sales.
Of course it's an unfair comparison since Invincible follows a format closer to manga than your typical superhero comic, with a clear beginning and end point, it'd be much harder to do an adaptation like that when most other serialized comics just have self-contained storylines that last maybe 4-6 issues.
Yeah, I don't think we disagree about the efficacy. My thought is mostly that if we want to help the industry as a whole it needs to be a big push, a few a year won't be enough
Yeah manga really invented linear story telling and comic stories are definitely on average only 4-6 issues long
It will never end if you don't stop encouraging them, anons.
Actually write action/adventure stories.
Adventure!? That’s boring! We want soap opera drama!!
>manga chapters are sold in bulk via dirt cheap magazines
>during the period in which comics were ubiquitious, they were sold on the cheapest quality paper for extremely low prices
>manga magazines are sold in convenience stores everywhere, easily purchased by children
>comics, before being locked to the LCS ghetto, were sold in cornershops across the country
>manga covers the full range of literary genres
>superheroes were once a minority genre in comics, dominated by romance, horror, and adventure stories
These markets are not actually that different, comics just completely gave up on the model. And they really fricked themselves by doing so, because you can't just recreate that culture overnight
I mean wouldn't the biggest difference between the two be that Japan's manga market never had to deal with an organization like the CCA?
Have they tried being good?
Good is a relative term.
What's good to your grandparents may not be good to you, and vice versa.
Yes, that's not the issue
Regardless of effort, they haven’t succeeded in a long time.
KILL FLOPPIES, move to biweekly 102 pages anthology books (action comics, detective comics, all star comics, etc) with 7 series, 14 pages each on shit paper. Publish arcs in high quality paper every few months as graphic novels. Just copy manga in the only way that matters: a model that creates engagement from casual readers and subsidize smaller series by tying their publishing to bigger brands, and that offers collectors something to collect.
Frick LCsjews
Not sure if we should kill the market that's already there, but it would be a neat side thing, like Ultimate Marvel.
More power girl
More skimpy outfits
And yes I know power girl is more then skimpy outfits
But I really really like them
Someone tell this moron it's Barnes and NOBLE.
NOBLE, YOU FRICK.
it's been awhile since I've read a comic, but I just saw a page from a new batman issue where he's talking about how marrying selina would lower his effectiveness as batman, an arc that was covered and finished years ago.
maybe they should stop hiring garbage writers just to fill a production quota, stop rehashing the same shit constantly, and have characters actually grow.
But Anon, what if Superman was... le bad? Wouldn't that be a refreshing and invigorating story beat???
One of the B&Ns I go to has turned almost the entire bottom floor into a manga section and it’s not a small floor. The section is bigger than most whole book stores.
Manga covers more niche interests
Manga has a beginning and an end
Manga is not impossible to get into
Manga almost never relies on 20, 40, 60, 80 years of references and callbacks
Manga is not just superheroes in spandex, and the manga sold in stores is more diverse than whatever is sandwiched between capeshit.
>Think girl on cover is hot
>There’s already footjob art of her
Truly we live in a blessed world
Sell
Become black and white or gray scale and become cheaper
The reason I never got into comics and did get into manga when I was a teen is because comics (at least superhero comics) are a whole MESS. There's so many out there that you wouldn't know where to start. It's overwhelming.
Meanwhile One Piece has been going since like the early 90s and someone could easily get into it. All you have to do is pick up Volume 1. Done. Manga is just so much easier to get into.
What is manga doing right that comics aren't?
Making content readers want at a reasonable pace. That's really it.
How come none of you homosexuals learn to draw and write, and make your own comics
>But it's too hard : (
Then keep yelling at the ocean when the tide comes and goes like it'll magically stop
>write
I can do that
>draw
I don't wanna. Collaborating with someone would be cool. I keep wanting to message this artist I know to team up.
>I can do that
Everyone with internet/library access and a passing high-school education thinks they can write, that doesn't mean shit to me if you rely on an artist to psychically guess at interpreting your grand vision. Especially if you can't storyboard your comic pages worth a damn
This pisses me off so much. You get "writers" who don't actually understand the comics medium. They don't storyboard or describe the comics by panels or pages. They're not Kurtzman or Moore, but they act like are they.
if I could draw I'd draw anime breasts and make money that way
Manga makes you think anyone can write and draw a comic, when you read a western comic you realise only a master of the craft can do it
It's just trendy
>It's just trendy
A trend that's been popular with teens/young adults for the better part of 2 decades?
Simply draw some nice pictures of the boobs and breasts of women
Stop having shitty fight scenes, do something more interesting than just capes, stop using comics for progressive agitprop, make comics less expensive. Then *maybe* I'll think about buying a western comic, but probably not because there's already a lot of bad blood.
Basically, the answer is most likely "Nothing".
To see how moronic comics are, just imagine if manga did the same thing
>remove all manga except Naruto and DBZ
>publish only these series for 50+ years
>remove any long running story arcs and replace the stories with 20 chapter filler arcs that have no continuity with eachother
>publish them 1 chapter at a time for $30 in a shitty floppy book of horrible shiny paper with ugly digital coloring
Yeah I wouldn't buy manga either if it was like that
>remove all manga except Naruto and DBZ
Marvel and DC = Boruto and DBS confirmed
Not to mention that the status quo is king in American superhero comics. Any change is either minute or doesn't last.
Status quo killed Gohan
Late to the party, but I've seen firsthand why.
>Teacher at public schools
>Most kids admit they're into anime and manga of some kind
>Almost none of them will admit they're into comics, but will talk about the movies all day
>The few that do are legit interested in my comic collection behind my desk and those are the ones I'll let borrow them towards the end of the year when we've got less to do in class.
I buy stickers to give the kids for good behavior and performance in class, but the Marvel/DC stickers are way less popular than the demon slayer/the other popular anime I can't remember the name of right now.
Stores just know what's popular. Now, why the kids are more interested in manga than comics, I don't know. I've got theories but they make me sound paranoid and schizo to a /misc/ level
>Now, why the kids are more interested in manga than comics, I don't know.
Because they're cool.
What in the actual hell is this from?
My students just read denim slayer and cute things from the look of the cover
Chainsaw Man. It's from Shonen Jump, just like Demon Slayer.
Technically not anymore since the series is continuing on the Jump+ app.
I'm assuming it's very gorey? I try to keep a collection of manga on my shelf for them but I don't think this would be appropriate. I have to be picky about what I grab so I don't get the axe
Chainsaw Man is a bit fricked up compared to the average Jump title.
Spoilers
The main antagonist can't die, so the main character chops it up and takes his time making meals out of it and eating them.
It's quintessential teenage-core, I wouldn't put it there for small kids. Very nice coming-of-age story though.
Shoalin Cowboy was just slightly cooler imo
Frick japs and euros, America is still the coolest
American indies are great, it's cape not so much.
why are the israelites pushing degenerate manga on children?
>Schizophrenia The Post
Don't buy your comics at Barnes and Noble
>Comicbook stores are dead (because of shit sales of western comics)
"Go to muh city"
>Who the frick wants to live in a city
Where else are capeshits supposed to go to get their comics?
>Where else are capeshits supposed to go to get their comics?
The internet.
>The internet.
>Have your comics arrive damaged or stolen by train thieves.
Who talked about going to the city?
Sucks that you have no local comic book store within walking distance that's lasted over 30 years, couldn't be me.
>works on my machine
Indeed. Sorry about your situation though, hopefully comics get better treatment at your Barnes and Noble.
This guy
Touche. Wasn't who I was talking to, though.
oh ok
>The anon who made that post
Anyway, the comicbook comic store in my town was doing so bad that the owners resorted to selling drugs to teens/kids so they got busted by the DEA in a raid. I could be wrong but I think I remember the raid ending up in a shootout with the DEA/cops and the store owners (could be a missed placed memory tho happens most of the time where I live). There has never been a comicbook store ever since. On the bright side, the weeb(otaku general) store is doing great. I got Yotsuba&! and Berserk collection from there, so all is good.
>the comicbook comic store in my town was doing so bad that the owners resorted to selling drugs to teens/kids so they got busted by the DEA in a raid. I could be wrong but I think I remember the raid ending up in a shootout with the DEA/cops and the store owners (could be a missed placed memory tho happens most of the time where I live). There has never been a comicbook store ever since.
wtf
guy i watch has some videoa talking about it
It's not just kids. More and more old school fans are leaving the comic industry for manga.
People just want good stories. Not this sensationalist bullshit with characters coming out or getting replaced by a more diverse counterpart.
>Invest in cartoons, Animations, deals
>Open up to new creators and create comic book contests
>Give creators a good deal.
>Suck a man dick
Comic book writers hate their audience.
There's a manga for literally everything.
Because they are all the same
You are moronic.
Explain how Yotsuba&! and Berserk are the same.
Everyone knows Berserk isn't the same, it's so good it's considered an honorary comic book
>frog poster
Opinion discarded
Explain how Trigun, Yu Yu Hakusho, Ranma ½, Violence Jack, Gunsmith Cats, Kill la Kill, GTO, Goblin Slayer, Hajime no Ippo, Goblin Slayer, Jahy-sama wa Kujikenai!, Hokuto No Ken, Jojo's Bizarre Adventure, Vampire Hunter D, and Mieruko-chan are all the same? Go head I'm waiting capeshit.
Because they are all the same, all manga is the same otherwise it would just be considered a graphic novel instead of being it's own genre.
All manga are generally the same with some surface level differences, it allows for a lot of books that appear different but they all read the same it creates the illusion of variety
>m-manga is a genre…
>all read the same it creates the illusion of variety
Nichijou and Vagabond or Claymore how are they the same? You also probably don't read manga in the first place if you actually believe there is no variety. Like, come on all of the manga I listed in
almost have nothing in common. Unlike capeshit where most of it is the same shit over and over again.
Even modern woke capeshit has more variety on average than all of manga
Dude your trolling or you're actually a fricken moron
>non-argument
>Simo got Fate’d
Why
Japan baby.
They love turning historical figures into women and e-girls.
Now that they've done it to all of their famous figures they're branching out into famous figures from other countries too.
Not to mention ships.
132110849
no (You) for you
I accept your concession
Stop making comics about gay brown men with pink hair? No? K. Then I guess they can die off. I’ll just be over here reading Delicious in Dungeon.