Has there been a more "ANIMATORS ARE NOT WRITERS" show than Digital Circus?

Visually its great, and actually uses the 3D medium for interesting jokes and action

Writing wise? Atrocious.

Overstuffed cast, tonal whiplash, exposition overload, cheap unearned "emotional" beats, jokes replaced with yapping, pacing thats fricked, mysterious lore frontloaded over making an ejoyable episode structure, unbelievable character reactions/responses. I could go on.

Its so indicitive that just because you can making a good show visually, doesnt mean you have the chops to write it

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  1. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    I like da funny clown girl

  2. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >unbelievable character reactions
    They really love making Pomni go "WOAH HAHAH IM LOSING IT!" in places that dont call for it

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      This. They want an emtional beat thats earned? Gummygators death was the place to have it, it wasnt the time for another le Joker moment

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      This is so cringe. Its a moment you have at the end of a season, the final breakdown. Not every goddamn episode

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >Designated punching bag since day 0
      >Woah they are punching the bag!?
      Really?

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        What

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      This. They want an emtional beat thats earned? Gummygators death was the place to have it, it wasnt the time for another le Joker moment

      This is so cringe. Its a moment you have at the end of a season, the final breakdown. Not every goddamn episode

      Shut the frick up Gavin the Industrycuck.

      • 1 week ago
        Anonymous

        are you getting your schizos mixed up?

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      This is the thing that really pissing me off, she does it like three times in ep1 and again in ep2. Its so cringey and tryhard

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        She does it three times in ep1 because she's literally just had her situation thrusted on her and isn't coping well. The one time she does it in ep2 is when it's actually called for.

        This. They want an emtional beat thats earned? Gummygators death was the place to have it, it wasnt the time for another le Joker moment

        You can't complain that they're having her mindbreak when it's not called for and then proceed to complain when it happens after an event that would break her.

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Mindbreak is a meme, but even then it should happen after a long period of stress. Its the kettle boiling, the pay off from building tension, and should have a cooling off period.

          Having her "break" every 5 minutes cheapens the whole thing, makes it hollow and unimpactful. She's not the Joker falling in the vat of acid, there should be SOME progression here.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Stop using buzzwords, especially incorrectly.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        And?
        The frick is your point? You’re vomiting words on things you don’t like.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      You really think her manic laughter wasn't warranted this episode?

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        100%
        Imagine your friend just exploded in front of you, would you immediately laugh? WOAH IM GOING CUUURAZZZY!
        Give me a break, 2 episodes in and she's done it four times

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Congrats! You get to learn today that everyone responds to things differently! She's obviously having a mental break down from seeing her first potential friend get blown up in front of her. Makes perfect sense.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Lets put aside that literally no one reacts this way to seeing a friend die because this is fiction

            Again, it should be a sad moment. A deflation of their victory, not a wacky joker moment - and ESPECIALLY not the FOURTH wacky laugh moment in 2 eps

            Just awful

            • 2 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              Hey, I got zero problems with you disliking her trauma response. But I completely disagree. That moment was just supposed to be a dick punch for both Pomni and the audience because we're led to believe that a new member is joining the crew.

              >He thinks le mindbreak is real
              Good grief do none of you guys ever go outside?

              ?

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >We're led to believe that a new member is joining the crew.
                What are you, stupid?

              • 1 week ago
                Anonymous

                No.

            • 2 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              This is all I can think of when she does le crazy laugh

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >He thinks le mindbreak is real
            Good grief do none of you guys ever go outside?

            • 2 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              Where do you think we are?

            • 2 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              if mindbreaks aren't real, why do we have incels and outcasts shooting up places all the time?

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Being a c**t doenst mean your mindbroken. Its a meme.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                israeli pysop

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >At my mother's funeral
            HAHAHAA OH NOT IM LOSING IT HAHAHAAH IM BECOMING A NUTTER

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      I like the show, but they can't keep ending every episode with Pomni going lel laughing mad, it just lessens the impact of it everytime it happens.
      Also, their aren't really any mistakes because Caine probab;y won't let anyone get seriously hurt on any adventures, and chances are the only characters at actual risk of abstraction are Kinger and Gangle, the two most useless parts of the cast.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        The episode didn't end with her laughing, it ended with her at the funeral closing the dream metaphor.

    • 2 weeks ago
      El Barto

      the children yearn for the joker

    • 1 week ago
      Anonymous

      It's only the second day. I hope it will happen less and less.

    • 1 week ago
      Anonymous

      I'm loosing it (in my pants)

    • 1 week ago
      Anonymous

      It would have been better if she just broke down crying in the fetal position

  3. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    skibidi toilet digital circus clown edition

  4. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    I feel like it's very tonally consistent. It's an existential black comedy that draws humor from how the characters are absolutely suffering and the suffering is presented in over the top ways. It's not Shakespeare, but it's not "tonal whiplash". I'll give you that the cast is maybe a touch too large though, but with only two episodes I'm not sure yet, maybe they'll make better use of the ensemble in the future.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      I thinks its more how itll jump back and forth from "wacky hijinks" to "deep emotional moments"

      The latest ep was pretty bad for this. We kept cutting from the gang quipping and cracking wise in the truck to the gator questioning his existence - which was also unearned as they should have established him way more before doing that

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        What's a good way to transition between the two? A show can have both in the same episode, but there's a right and wrong way to do it.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      there's sort of gnostic undertones to this thing. which is nothing new

      • 1 week ago
        Anonymous

        Gnostic is the new kafkaesque: a word that morons use to make-believe that they possess intelligence.

  5. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Jax solo spinoff when?

  6. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    I honestly don't think there's ever gonna be a writer-focused indie cartoon. The hard truth is that's animators and writers are not in the same circle, it's a very visually driven medium and hard to find writers who can solely work it to the fullest.

    I do one day hope we'll see a Home Movies or Venture Bros-esque indie cartoon pop up that's carried by good VA performance, witty jokes but I feel only way that'll happen is either a writer and animator teaming up fully or a writer with enough money and skill to hire/direct a small team.

    • 2 weeks ago
      guy

      Cartoon "writing" is a grift by people who have nothing to offer besides demanding animators to hire them to tell them what to do
      >Overstuffed cast
      Lol

      There's a gazillion podcasts and some of them have drawings

      • 2 weeks ago
        boil

        >yap yap yap

        • 2 weeks ago
          guy

          >troony reply

          Nothing and nobody will ever top Don Bluth in the "Animator and not a writer" department.

          Land before Time, All dogs Go to Heaven and others are 1000x more memorable than Zoomer trending content
          He has literally affected theological discourse

          • 1 week ago
            Anonymous

            But Don didn't write LbT, but he was on Story for Dogs....but also A Troll. The only full on writing credit he has is fricking Thumbelina.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >Cartoon "writing" is a grift by people who have nothing to offer besides demanding animators to hire them to tell them what to do
        Honestly this.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      where does one even find decent independent writers to team up with? Fanfic websites like AO3 and fanfic.net? Cinemaphile? discord?

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        That is majorly the hard part cause you want people who actually have written shit. No long outlines or idea docs but they actually do have books to their name. Another issue is different kinds of writing like a novel writer would have a tough time going an animation script.

        Franky the only writers I think who could make the transition just fine would be screen or comics writers. Some shows in the 2000s had episodes written by comic writers at the time so looking there may help.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >Visually it's great
        Then why does your image show the blandest, milquetoast, insipid posing someone could put together.

        >where does one even find decent independent writers to team up with?
        You don't. Even the industry has to rely on the dysfunctional nepotism method.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        I'll do it.

        • 1 week ago
          Anonymous

          pitch your show idea

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >writer focused
      Glitch picked up a creepypasta writer for their other indie show

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      MTV Downtown cartoon was real good.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >I honestly don't think there's ever gonna be a writer-focused indie cartoon.
      .......
      it's more "writing focused" since the writer and animator is the same, but still

      • 1 week ago
        Anonymous

        Watch this post get completely ignored:

        Homestar runner and wgj4k/brain dump are my candidates for best written webtoons. Max g is sadly probably one of the only highly technically competent animators that's also adept to write

        No Evil.

        And the same things repeated in the next thread whining about indie cartoons.

        • 1 week ago
          Anonymous

          *these posts

        • 1 week ago
          Anonymous

          Yeah, hell, TADC itself got great writing, but of course this bait thread that is 2/3 samegayging from Industrycuck will not be a discussion in good faith

      • 1 week ago
        Anonymous

        What’s this called again? I’ve been meaning to check it out.

        • 1 week ago
          Anonymous

          here:
          https://archive.org/details/pangea-tv-english-translation
          note that the first 4 episodes (and 6) are each focused on different character circles, so this might make it hard to get into, but they all return later and make up the main cast of the show.

          • 1 week ago
            Anonymous

            Thank you!

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Homestar runner and wgj4k/brain dump are my candidates for best written webtoons. Max g is sadly probably one of the only highly technically competent animators that's also adept to write

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Max does a lot of navel gazing, which is easy when you're the only voice giving opinions and your cohost is just you, but the smarter more correct version of you. I'm not sure he could really carry two seasons of a show without alienating a lot of the audience.

        • 1 week ago
          Anonymous

          True but I feel like that eccentricity makes his stuff a lot more engaging and the emotional moments to be a lot more earned, certainly a lot more than tadc. It's probably unfair to compare the real life unhinged animated quazitherapy that deals with his actual fricked up brain to the emotional depth of a cartoon clown but his delivery and pacing has always been very entertaining.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      No Evil.

    • 1 week ago
      Anonymous

      I think A Fox in Space, the Star Fox animation series, has decent writing.

      • 1 week ago
        Anonymous

        That guy is an interesting, slow, burn. I love Fox In Space but it'd never get Youtube's nine year-old army behind it.

    • 1 week ago
      Anonymous

      you're describing Sublo and Tangy Mustard

    • 1 week ago
      Anonymous

      >good VA performance
      >witty jokes
      Monkey WrenchCHADS, our time is now…

    • 1 week ago
      Anonymous

      It exists. It's called Bridge Kids.

    • 1 week ago
      Anonymous

      Writers are overrated and nothing more than parasitical hacks that jump on popular ips

  7. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    I like Smiling Friends' approach where you have these wacky characters having overly realistic conversations, I want to see more of that. Even if their world is ridiculous you get the sense that they're alive and go about their day within it.
    Writing and visual art are such totally different disciplines you almost never find a true renaissance man that can do both. Mentally disturbed people make the best art but they tend to lack social skills so they don't know how to write dialogue.

    • 1 week ago
      Anonymous

      I'd argue that Smiling Friends only works SO well because it's unique in that regard.
      If every show was wacky characters having overly realistic conversations, it would get old. And I think Smiling Friends has finite mileage because of it. I don't think it's close to running out of steam at the moment, but I do think that it's a matter of when rather than if.

  8. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >Writing wise? Atrocious.
    Nothing is as bad as Hazbin Hotel/Helluva Boss
    Those shows are written for perverted adults who are also bratty teenagers, so basically written by Madrano FOR Madrano

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      This, at least circus has some slow moments, these two are go go go go and nothing has a moment to breathe

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Vivzie is frothing at the mouth to get to the series highlights, the golden moments people remember forever

      Problem is shes rushing through them so fast they can never be impactful. Did you know that season 1 of Hazbin takes place over the course of half a year? I didnt because the pace is so fricked it feels like a week.

      Take the destruction of the hotel. A classic "BIG" moment for a show. Think Wayne Manor blowing up, or the KND base being wrecked.

      Except we spend zero time in it. We have no attachment to this base, and Im pretty sure we only ever see the foyer now and again. But she wants her big "Wow! Yhe hotel is in ruins!" beat so it happens and we feel nothing

      Same for the characters. Angel Dust and Sir Pentious are suddenly reformed thanks to stuff that happens off screen so we can have their bog sad scenes asap. But we dont care they reformed because we never saw it happen or how hard it was.

      This is basic ass stuff. They knew they had 2 seasons from the get go. The Angel invasion should have been the finale of s2, with s1s finale being a showdown with TV boy or something (Instead of dealing with him the EP he wad introduced)

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >Did you know that season 1 of Hazbin takes place over the course of half a year? I didnt because the pace is so fricked it feels like a week.
        Do you think the problem stems from the artists not realising their half a decade of production experience with it is nothing like our 20 minute experience of it?

        • 1 week ago
          Anonymous

          ?feature=shared

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >They knew they had 2 seasons from the get go.
        Why are you lying?

      • 1 week ago
        Anonymous

        I think Vivzie should have never sold out to A24 in the first place.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      This, at least circus has some slow moments, these two are go go go go and nothing has a moment to breathe

      Rent free

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Hi, Viv.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Digital Circus is better than Hazbin, by virtue of the fact that it actually takes time to slow down, let things breathe and sink in occasionally. and if there's something somewhat emotional, it feels more earned in DC.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Hazbin/Helluva is a weird and disconcerting mixture of having character designs and aesthetics that would appeal to kids, while also having a ton of weirdo adults in the fandom with every fetish imaginable

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >Hazbin/Helluva is a weird and disconcerting mixture of having character designs and aesthetics that would appeal to kids, while also having a ton of weirdo adults in the fandom with every fetish imaginable
        You troglodyte morons spent years complaining about every adult show looking like a GoAnimate Family Guy clone, and when you finally get one that bucks the trend you complain it doesn't look Family Guy enough.

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Anon, please understand, they're "writers." Idea-men. They are moronic.

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          I think the thing people are tired of is being condescended to. Hazbin having its own style is nice, but the whole thing is kind of this teenage rebellion thing where demons are actually good and mom is wrong, I can be gay if I want. For a thirteen year-old that's a big revelatory message, but for many adults we're past that and having gay sex already - the demon thing is pointless edge. Hazbin's for kids. It's the Hot Topic of indie cartoons.

          TADC is also drawing in a lot of tweens and young teens. I don't personally dislike these shows but I really don't feel like the target audience.

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          because it's not about the actual quality of the show, it's the quality of the person and those people critiquing it hate Vivzie. The show's not flawless but modern cartoon criticism is based off who's making it.

          • 1 week ago
            Anonymous

            not true. Plenty of people have explained their issues with Hazbin and Helluva's story and writing. the mega-fans just don't care if you critique their favorite piece of media's pacing and tone.
            Plenty of critics have explained their dislike for Hazbin without bringing up anything about Vivzie's personal life, most completely avoid that topic and focus on criticizing the shows.

            • 1 week ago
              Anonymous

              >most completely avoid that topic and focus on criticizing the shows.
              Viv isn't beyond criticism, the pacing of her shows is lousy and there's some bad plot holes in Hazbin, but there's a big contingent of extremely online people who think she's the literal antichrist and dedicate a good portion of their lives stalking her on twitter and accusing her of bigotry over extremely tenuous shit. I'm guessing these are mostly zoomers who regularly watch drama channels on YouTube but I've never seen a hatebase this active since SU and Voltron

        • 1 week ago
          Anonymous

          cool. I'll enjoy something that comes along and breaks the mold that isn't made by Vivziepop.

          • 1 week ago
            Anonymous

            Anime will replace western animation before that ever happens

            • 1 week ago
              Anonymous

              fine. Mainstream and indie Western animation are both currently mostly shit, just slightly different colors.

        • 1 week ago
          Anonymous

          Doesn't apply to me. Don't care for Family Guy, and don't like Vivzieslop either.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      This is correct. Hazbin Hotel's entire world-building falls apart at the simplest questions like: "What happens if you're killed in hell?" It's also full of bizarre motivations that make no sense, like when Alastar and Lucifer are fighting in that one song over Charlie for no reason. It is entirely a vibes show.

      Digitial Circus, even though it kinda meanders, at least feels like it has a purpose in its arcs. Gator npc decides to join. Pomny is happy. Cane kills Gator NPC. Pomny is sad.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >The people in hell are actually misunderstood, mistreated LGBTQ+ quirky chungus' who just need love
        >What about all the rapists, serial killers, and cannibals? Where are they?
        >..... dunno.
        There's your big problem with Hazbin's set up. Viv even cut a reference to Jeffery Dahlmar being there but that wont stop people thinking about it

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      oh frick off, the musical song scenes are amazing.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        No, they're really not homosexual.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >oh frick off, the musical song scenes are amazing.
        HAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

  9. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    it's a kid show, calm down.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Imagine being the guy that loads up this board just to type that out then feel compelled enough to fill out the captcha to have it be read and contemplated by several others, as if it were somehow a profound thought provoking untapped idea anyone here had never considered

  10. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >Has there been a more "ANIMATORS ARE NOT WRITERS" show than Digital Circus?
    any board-driven show

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Samurai Jack?

  11. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    It's a show for children and childish adults who all love it. Whatever well-written show you like doesn't get tens to hundreds of millions of views.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Theres no greater indicator for "This show is shit" than millioms of tweens loving it.

  12. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    OP trying hard to start shit. The writing is great.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      T. Peanut brain

  13. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    I thought it was written by a musician.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      It is.

  14. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    [...]

    See you at episode 8 when this show's still getting tens of millions of views.

  15. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    [...]

    Poor release schedules combined with muddled plots kill audience interest and Murder Drones is an example of that in action. The pilot premiered at about 40M views, and they’re averaging 15M now. People lost interest and people stopped being able to follow what the frick was going on.

    Time will tell if they’ve learned from this experience.

    • 2 weeks ago
      boil

      The Murder Drones pilot premiered at 20 mil, MDschizo. Stop shitting up our threads with your moronic hateboner

  16. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >Cinemaphilecksuckers now want deep writing on their funny little circus show
    Kek

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      I want Jax to become 80s action hero and shoot people

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      People will fault anything for any reason. Deep down we all just wish it was the things we like that got this success.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      No just competent
      One of the issues is its TRYING so very hard to be deep but botching it

  17. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    I feel like it doesn't really matter if the writing is bad when the content mills are creating context to explain everything to fans regardless of how dumb or wrong the farms are.

    Like yeah, I agree, the emotional hits aren't being set up. The gator sees his clone and immediately asks "What am I?" instead of trying to rationalize it or argue he has a mother and etc. Then they've got the funeral scene and Pomni envisions her friends saving her from abstraction in an episode she was separated from them entirely and gained nothing from them.

    That parts fricking weird, too. On paper I see the connection between fearing abstraction, Gummigoo learning he's fake, Pomni offers to help, and in the end she's reassured by her friends. In a professional show these are all the pieces of a good story, but in Circus they forgot to stitch them together somehow.

    Also frick, we can't have a "my friends are there for me, even Zooble!" message when ZOOBLE HASN'T BEEN THERE. He she even talked to Pomni? Pomni barely knows these people.

    But the content farms will invent a story, background, and motive for Zooble, and the system will sort of prop itself up.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      I dont even think you need a professional writer to clean this stuff up, its all basic mistakes anyone who reads could help with

  18. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Nothing and nobody will ever top Don Bluth in the "Animator and not a writer" department.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Yeah, pretty much. This guy had a perfectly good story all laid out for him, and he still somehow turned it into Rockadoodle instead. Never gonna forgive him for robbing us of a proper Chanticleer movie.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >Nothing and nobody will ever top Don Bluth in the "Animator and not a writer" department.
      UUUUUUUUUUUUUUH...

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        There's minimal dialogue and it wasn't even finished. Little dialogue in a visual spectacle is still better than awful dialogue ruining the animation.

      • 1 week ago
        Anonymous

        Thief and the Cobbler very deliberately exists to showcase animated slapstick and other visual gags, with a very simple narrative to carry the characters from setpiece to setpiece. Pretty much a classic Mickey / Bugs short stretched out to a feature length film. Kinda like if Fantasia was just one sequence instead of an anthology.

        Bluth wasn't trying to do anything like that.

      • 1 week ago
        guy

        So writers ruin the work of a genius (like that butchered version that got released in stores)
        Gotcha

  19. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    So many of these cartoons that have giant adult fanbases feel like they're for an autistic audience. Digital Circus, Hazbin Hotel, The Owl House, Steven Universe, Fionna and Cake. They just explain their emotions, they say out loud the morals and themes, characters will SAY what good friends they are rather than showing it. You can say, "Oh, a couple of those shows are meant for kids", but I don't think they would be writing something like TOH or SU any differently if they were totally independent or meant for an older audience. Shit like TADC and Fionna &Cake are evident of that.

    The people who go fricking crazy for this shows, no shocker, tend to be autistic. They love it because the emotions are just right there, in your face, explained to you. It's like a giant "APPALUSE" sign for autists. When a writer is insecure with whether or not they think the reader is going to "get it", they just spell it out and that's what so many people are doing in these shows. I don't know if the people writing it are also autistic or are just responding to all the positivity around it so they think they're writing well or something. Homestuck is the worst offender of all this but at least it has an excuse of its own "instant message" gimmick.

    It also feels like they see these "big moments" in a TV show and just want them NOW NOW NOW. They want the moment of Walter White laughing in the hole but they don't want to spend three seasons building up to it so they do it in the third fricking episode.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Could you give actual examples from TADC of the writing issues you're talking about?

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        ?si=bCGqIL6HNAgoHk8x&t=884
        Take the entire scene with Pomni trying to cheer up Gummigoo who is depressed about just being an NPC. There's no layers to the dialogue. They're just having a very basic, "Life means nothing-- but maybe life doesn't have to mean nothing!" conversation that teenagers dwell on for the first time. There's no nuance, they say exactly what is on their mind to total strangers, they spill their hearts out, they say their motivations.

        ?si=lPeU2KugaTeMswW4
        You can directly compare it with a scene in Toy Story where Buzz realizes he's not who he thinks he is. You can see when their motivations change without Woody having to say things like, "I've been trying to sabotage you from the start because... I was jealous!" or without Buzz having to say lame things like, "It means nothing, I was so much cooler when I thought I was a Space Ranger, but now I'm not".

        It's about condensing conversations, layering dialogue, using more than just words to tell the audience how someone is feeling, and putting yourself in the shoes of the character. If you were Gummigoo, why would you be telling a random stranger all these things? Why would you suddenly be happy about going into yet another digital world even though that's also fake? That doesn't solve his internal dilemma. But I guess Pomni made a whole, "We can belong... together!" spiel so now the plot has to go forward.

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          It's dialogue written for children. But sure, autistic and less-intelligent adults also appreciate dialogue where everything is spelled out and they're not confused about character actions and motivations.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            And yet, the Toy Story scene still has more nuance than TADC. Weird, huh?

            • 2 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              There's always been variance with regard to how much children's media respects the intelligence of their audience.

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          How would you rewrite the dialogue to make it more nuanced, then?

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            I mean, it would be a full-on re-write and it would probably take multiple drafts of tweaking. There's lots of little things like Pomni saying, "I don't want to just leave you here!" when she hasn't even gotten the truck working-- why is leaving on her mind rather than if she can leave at all? Why is Pomni talking about the real world to this guy who is already incredibly confused about what his own world is? Why is Pomni even talking or emotionally connected to this NPC right from the get-go?

            Have Pomni need help with fixing the truck which prompts her to ask Gummigoo for help. She makes one attempt, stops, and then the "sad convo" happens. Pomni asks for help, he goes, "Why does it matter". Pomni responds, "It matters to me, I'd really like to leave". Gummigoo might get slightly ticked and reply, "Helping you and your crew, is that all I'm good for? Forget you". Pomni might wave him off, then decide to use one of the T-posing models as a tool to get the truck started. Gummigoo takes offense and tears the model away from her. It would prompt her to go something like, "I thought you said it didn't matter?" which could make Gummigoo realize that he still does care-- therefore something must matter.

            I'm not going to be able to do a proper re-write since obviously that's the job of a writing team that spends weeks dwelling on scenes. But that might be the initial direction I would take a re-write in.

            • 1 week ago
              Anonymous

              > Why is Pomni even talking or emotionally connected to this NPC right from the get-go?
              because she sees herself in him, lost and confused. Also doesn’t help he’s sentient

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Not him, but you know, it might havebeen funny if the gator didn't skip all the stages of grief straight acceptance, and he was going along with Pomni's bullshit so that he could call Caine a homosexual on the other side.

            They have imagery depicting Caine as a god. He'd step through the portal, point at him, and yell, "Hey, God, frick you, ya' c**t b***h!" And then Caine explodes him.

            There's a lot of different ways you can go, but I'm personally bothered by how many people seemed to swallow down the Gummigoo death scene and call it genius. Did that many people really feel stirred by that hackneyed instant gratification, or is it just because the show is popular, people understood what they were supposed to think, and then said that so they'd blend in with the crowd? I don't know. I personal,y liked Gummigoo as a surface level idea but I didn't feel like they earned anything with him. Certainly not a pull of the heartstrings, and nor another Pomni freakout - though Pomni freaks out on a pin drop.

          • 1 week ago
            Anonymous

            I think what I'd change is to not have Pomni talk about the real world with Gummigoo or even really try to convince him consciously.

            Pomni asks if Gummigoo will help.
            He says it's pointless because he's not even real.
            She says she can't leave him down there.
            He just asks "Why?"
            Pomni is speechless. A few seconds of silence before she admits she doesn't know.
            Gummigoo is visibly surprised at her lack of answer, but doesn't say anything.
            She says that he just "felt real" and decides to give up on talking to him and go back to doing it on her own.
            He looks at the T-posing Gummigoo, and then at his T-posing friends. Doesn't say anything. Just realizes that he DOES care. Looks at Pomni struggling to move a block. Looks guilty watching her struggle alone like that.
            Gummigoo gets up and starts helping her push the block.
            Pomni asks why he's helping.
            He just says "I don't know. Felt like it."
            Idea being that he's not over his crisis, but his feelings are real and that has to count for something.
            Pomni has only been in the circus for a day, so she shouldn't understand much at this point. She just naturally empathizes with Gummigoo's sadness because he feels human enough. Gummigoo naturally empathizes with Pomni's struggle because he is human enough.
            Most people can't really verbally articulate their feelings, but they don't have to. They just feel it.
            Gummigoo doesn't need his crisis resolved entirely. He just has to understand that his feelings of caring for others overcome his apathy from being an NPC, and that's enough to motivate him in the moment.

            Pomni can invite him to the circus while they're moving the blocks together. Gummigoo looks at his T-posing friends and says it's probably better not to drag them into his existential nightmare. Pomni awkwardly laughs when Gummigoo calls it an existential nightmare. They exchange names and then get in the truck.

            It's just a rough draft and I can't make a post over 2000 characters, but it's something, I think.

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >You can see when their motivations change without Woody having to say things like, "I've been trying to sabotage you from the start because... I was jealous!" or without Buzz having to say lame things like, "It means nothing, I was so much cooler when I thought I was a Space Ranger, but now I'm not".
          You mean lines like "As a matter of fact, you're too cool. I mean, what chance does a toy like me have against a Buzz Lightyear action figure? Why would Andy ever want to play with me when he's got you?"
          Or maybe a like like "You were right all along, I'm not a space marine, I'm just a toy, a stupid little insignificant toy." Which Buzz said at a point where it was already perfectly clear to the audience that that's how he felt.
          Don't get me wrong, the Toy Story scene is better written for sure, but not because of something as trite as "characters saying what they think or feel is bad writing."

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            But that IS layered. Woody is still talking about being a toy, or channeling his feelings through mechanical functions and a third-party (Andy). He is not saying things like, "I'm jealous, Buzz! You get to have all these cool features. I wish I had that, then I could be the best toy on the shelf! But I don't have that, so why would Andy want to have me?! The truth is, I've been sabotaging you from the start... because I know you're better than me." which would be way lamer dialogue.

            • 2 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              I get what you're saying but I'm not sure I agree with your diagnosis. As I see it, the main problem with the dialogue in that scene is that it's structured poorly and has some unnecessary lines. I tried my hand at revising the script without adding anything of my own, just removing lines or switching them around, and I think this flows much better.

              Pomni: Uhh... y-you wanna try helping out at all? Or are you still... Hey. You okay?
              Gummigoo: No.
              Pomni: You wanna talk about it?
              Gummigoo: What is there to talk about? I don't matter in the slightest. I'm nothing. My life, my memories... my friends... It's all fake.
              Pomni: This may seem weird, but... I think I know the feeling. I mean... feeling like you're nothing is... kind of normal. People even feel like that in the world I came from. But... Y-you still care about your buddies up there, don't you? I'm sure they still care about you.
              Gummigoo: What does it matter? Why are you trying to cheer me up?
              Pomni: I guess I just don't want you to feel like you're nothing. I don't want anybody to feel like that. The- The circus- th- the place I'm from? Well, I- I'm originally from somewhere else. But... if it has to be my home... maybe it can be yours, too.
              Gummigoo: But I'm not even a real person. Would I even belong?
              Pomni: I'm sure you wouldn't belong any less than me. Maybe you... could be somebody real there. And... I could use a friend.
              Gummigoo: "A friend." You're a strange little character. Suppose I could give it a try.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                I think I like the other guy's idea better, where Pomni tries to glitch out the truck with the t pose model, and he gets upset, which goes to show he cares even if things aren't what he thought.

                Using dialogue to immediately jump to the payoff is pretty lame. There needs to be conflict. You can't just have.

                I'm sad.
                Maybe you shouldn't be.
                Okay that's true.
                Great, let's be friends!

                You need to gator to be a little invested in something. The guy leaves both his brothers behind, presumably to die, and gives no fricks. You'd think he might stay with them because they're family, which might set up Pomni's revelation that she needs to trust the other characters to be her new family.

                Again, so many better ways to write this than having them say "I'm at point A in the script."

                "Have you tried being at point C?"

                "Okay!"

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Yeah but
            >Which Buzz said at a point where it was already perfectly clear to the audience that that's how he felt
            This is a huge part. When you let these feelings play out on screen and let the audience infer first, it's less about letting the audience know and more about a genuine character moment when it's finally admitted.

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          I mean, it would be a full-on re-write and it would probably take multiple drafts of tweaking. There's lots of little things like Pomni saying, "I don't want to just leave you here!" when she hasn't even gotten the truck working-- why is leaving on her mind rather than if she can leave at all? Why is Pomni talking about the real world to this guy who is already incredibly confused about what his own world is? Why is Pomni even talking or emotionally connected to this NPC right from the get-go?

          Have Pomni need help with fixing the truck which prompts her to ask Gummigoo for help. She makes one attempt, stops, and then the "sad convo" happens. Pomni asks for help, he goes, "Why does it matter". Pomni responds, "It matters to me, I'd really like to leave". Gummigoo might get slightly ticked and reply, "Helping you and your crew, is that all I'm good for? Forget you". Pomni might wave him off, then decide to use one of the T-posing models as a tool to get the truck started. Gummigoo takes offense and tears the model away from her. It would prompt her to go something like, "I thought you said it didn't matter?" which could make Gummigoo realize that he still does care-- therefore something must matter.

          I'm not going to be able to do a proper re-write since obviously that's the job of a writing team that spends weeks dwelling on scenes. But that might be the initial direction I would take a re-write in.

          This is just... something you begin to appreciate about the cartoon/animation fandom more and more as you get older. It's less about the respect for the medium of animation and more about a crowd of people who need that hyperstimulation from the visuals and genuinely can't appreciate slower finer storytelling.

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          I mean, it would be a full-on re-write and it would probably take multiple drafts of tweaking. There's lots of little things like Pomni saying, "I don't want to just leave you here!" when she hasn't even gotten the truck working-- why is leaving on her mind rather than if she can leave at all? Why is Pomni talking about the real world to this guy who is already incredibly confused about what his own world is? Why is Pomni even talking or emotionally connected to this NPC right from the get-go?

          Have Pomni need help with fixing the truck which prompts her to ask Gummigoo for help. She makes one attempt, stops, and then the "sad convo" happens. Pomni asks for help, he goes, "Why does it matter". Pomni responds, "It matters to me, I'd really like to leave". Gummigoo might get slightly ticked and reply, "Helping you and your crew, is that all I'm good for? Forget you". Pomni might wave him off, then decide to use one of the T-posing models as a tool to get the truck started. Gummigoo takes offense and tears the model away from her. It would prompt her to go something like, "I thought you said it didn't matter?" which could make Gummigoo realize that he still does care-- therefore something must matter.

          I'm not going to be able to do a proper re-write since obviously that's the job of a writing team that spends weeks dwelling on scenes. But that might be the initial direction I would take a re-write in.

          >You can see when their motivations change without Woody having to say things like, "I've been trying to sabotage you from the start because... I was jealous!" or without Buzz having to say lame things like, "It means nothing, I was so much cooler when I thought I was a Space Ranger, but now I'm not".
          You mean lines like "As a matter of fact, you're too cool. I mean, what chance does a toy like me have against a Buzz Lightyear action figure? Why would Andy ever want to play with me when he's got you?"
          Or maybe a like like "You were right all along, I'm not a space marine, I'm just a toy, a stupid little insignificant toy." Which Buzz said at a point where it was already perfectly clear to the audience that that's how he felt.
          Don't get me wrong, the Toy Story scene is better written for sure, but not because of something as trite as "characters saying what they think or feel is bad writing."

          the real problem with the Pomni and Gummigoo dialogue is that it skips over the natural flow of a conversation, and tries to head directly to the conclusion without any build up.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            I think the cruelest irony about modern writing in toons is that the script is so desperately afraid of filler that it can't just let characters speak to one another without it having severe implications for MUH LORE

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Most artists/animators don't have the social skills to know how conversation naturally flows in the first place.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            That's the problem with Gummigoo's entire arc. He's too quick understand that he and his buddies are NPCs in a videogame, too quick to fall into existential dread, and too quick to get out of it. Might have worked better if he didn't react as strongly. Like maybe he's freaked out by the other version of him and his buddies, but his AI isn't smart enough to understand what it all means, so he just has this sense of wrongness that he can't put his finger on. Then Pomni reassures him that everything's fine and he trusts her since she does seem to know what's going on better than he does.

            I think I like the other guy's idea better, where Pomni tries to glitch out the truck with the t pose model, and he gets upset, which goes to show he cares even if things aren't what he thought.

            Using dialogue to immediately jump to the payoff is pretty lame. There needs to be conflict. You can't just have.

            I'm sad.
            Maybe you shouldn't be.
            Okay that's true.
            Great, let's be friends!

            You need to gator to be a little invested in something. The guy leaves both his brothers behind, presumably to die, and gives no fricks. You'd think he might stay with them because they're family, which might set up Pomni's revelation that she needs to trust the other characters to be her new family.

            Again, so many better ways to write this than having them say "I'm at point A in the script."

            "Have you tried being at point C?"

            "Okay!"

            >You can't just have.
            >I'm sad.
            >Maybe you shouldn't be.
            >Okay that's true.
            >Great, let's be friends!
            That's not even how it happens in the show. Pomni doesn't fix everything by saying "Maybe you shouldn't be sad". She offers her sympathy and tries to make him know that she understands how he feels, then offers to help him find meaning again if he comes back with her to the circus, with the additional subtext that she's trying to find her own meaning by helping him. Granted, the execution wasn't the best, but the idea is still there.

            • 2 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              >He's too quick understand that he and his buddies are NPCs in a videogame, too quick to fall into existential dread, and too quick to get out of it.
              They have 25 minutes to tell a story. Most cartoons are paced like this, you just never noticed when you were a kid.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                This, thankyou.

                I neither need nor want Gummigoo’s identity crisis to occupy half a season just because that would be “more realistic.” And I also don’t need or want his whole arc and character to be rewritten into something new entirely to fulfill the same demand. I get that I’m watching an episode of a silly cartoon and that he’s the friend of the week- I can suspend my disbelief enough to speedrun his reactions a little bit.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >He's too quick understand that he and his buddies are NPCs in a videogame, too quick to fall into existential dread, and too quick to get out of it.
                They have 25 minutes to tell a story. Most cartoons are paced like this, you just never noticed when you were a kid.

                Strawman argument.
                No ones saying it should be half a season, or even more than one episode
                But if they want to do this kind of story beat, they cant jump from A to D and expect it to have weight. Because it wont, and it doesn't.

                What if the first scene, instead of the pointless abstraction dream, we established Gummy. Have him getting the crew ready for the job, then have him notice something off - maybe a glitch in the distance - establish that he feels somethings not right. Then boom, cut to Pomni.

                This one change alone helps establish the character early, instead of ten seconds before, and starts the ground work for him questioning his reality.
                As it is its "Hi, Im not real, big sad speech, boom he's dead" - fricking speed running an arc when theres so much wasted time

                As others have said, this isnt even genius writing tips you only learn from getting a degree - its bog standard pacing and set up/pay off. The fact they dont even get that much is worrying

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Exact same fricking problem Vivziepop has. These dude cannot plan a story to save their lives. They just rush straight to their big sob moments cause theyre hyperfocused on them and just them

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Just off the top of my head for me personally, I think it would've been much cleaner if they separated Pomni from the main cast earlier so that she could spend some time with the croc crew and establish a relationship with them BEFORE getting sent out of bounds.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                This too. "Two enemies/strangers are isolated together and leave knowing each other better" is a pretty standard story for a show

                But usually the sense of time their in that bottle is conveyed as being a while, not 5 minutes. And usually the writers will show their walls breaking down over time, not immediately.
                So yeah, they shouldve had Pomni and him get there much sooner and played with the time more.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Yeah I think gooseworx is just favoring spectacle over an actually in-depth story. it seems she's trying to create a comedy serries and openly states as such yet at the same time she want it to be serious, it's like she wants this very niche thing and sacrifices a coherent plot and then has the audacity to complain that people are misinterpreting her all over the place pet project.

              • 1 week ago
                Anonymous

                >me personally
                Stopped reading there.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >What if the first scene, instead of the pointless abstraction dream, we established Gummy. Have him getting the crew ready for the job, then have him notice something off - maybe a glitch in the distance - establish that he feels somethings not right. Then boom, cut to Pomni.
                The show is ultimately about Pomni, not the gator. It begins and ends with her and the opening scene is important for the final one.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                The show is about Pomni, but the episode is about her connecting to Gator - and to do that you need to establish him

                I said to cut the abstraction dream because it ultimately plays no role in the story. Sure at the end Pomni realizes she can rely on her """friends""" but nothing in the episode prompted that. She's away from the gang the whole episode, hell she fell out the map because of one of them, and then the one dude she connected to got killed.

                If you want a plot about her learning to trust the others, save it for next episode and focus on it.

                Again, its the speedrunning issue. They want the sad funeral, they want the scene where her friends lift her out of her slump - but they did literally nothing to make that happened in ep 2

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                This. Frick, why was she even picturing the They/Them pulling her out of the goo? She's literally never spent any time with her, nor shared any lines. Its so rushed.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                This.

                >What if the first scene, instead of the pointless abstraction dream, we established Gummy. Have him getting the crew ready for the job, then have him notice something off - maybe a glitch in the distance - establish that he feels somethings not right. Then boom, cut to Pomni.
                The show is ultimately about Pomni, not the gator. It begins and ends with her and the opening scene is important for the final one.

                The show is about Pomni but this episode was about her reacting to a character who was implemented into the plot as seamlessly as sticking your dick through a cheerio

                The fear of abstracting and learning to trust the gang was seriously just random bookending and couldve been its own ep

              • 1 week ago
                Anonymous

                Because the entire kingdom didn't exist until caine snapped his fingers and opened the portal. Everything was setup but nothing was active. So gummigoo was still just an A pose model during the start of the episode. Plot point is their backstories are fake, he has no mum, never did never will, so giving him any backstory time would defeat the purpose of that.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >cut the dream

                This. Frick, why was she even picturing the They/Them pulling her out of the goo? She's literally never spent any time with her, nor shared any lines. Its so rushed.

                >Zoodle hasn't spent time with Pomni
                It's hard for me to take your writing advice in good faith when it seems clear to me that you are both missing the nuance of what was going on.
                Pomni wasn't able to receive Ragatha's empathy, we don't understand why because we don't know her backstory, but we see her envision them laughing at her behind her back in the dream (this layers with the jester motif.)
                Pomni is able to empathize with Gummigoo because he isn't offering her pity, she steps into the same role Ragatha was in, but this time it works because her laughingstock baggage doesn't get in the way (I don't want anyone [myself included] to feel like nothing.) Now that Pomni has opened up to one person (and had that one crutch forcibly taken away) she is ready to try tk open to others.
                The audience doesn't need to watch a several hour long funeral for Kofmo because we don't know him and he's dead, but Pomni does stay with them, watches them express real pain, and she can begin to empathize with them like she did with Gummi. Now it is not a one-way pity cope, it is the foundation for a reciprocal network of self support. Zoodle is now Pomni's friend because she was at the funeral. Gummigoo was a narrative device to make Pomni open up by performing role-reversal.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                You'd have a point if that was communicated at all in the plot, but it wasnt.
                Take the troon, as an example. Yes you can argue that spending time with it at the funeral helped her connect and she it has empathy, but as an audience we experience none of that. In fact, it was nothing but a b***h in ep 1, and completely absent in ep 2

                So a scene of it dragging Pomni out of the goo set to emotional music feels shallow, because it is so rushed

                Thats true for the whole gang she now feels attached to. Why is the ep where she learns to care about them an episode where she spends no time with them?
                Maybe if Gators death lead to another episode where that bond is formed itd work, but this is like cliff notes as is.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >why does Pomni like her when I don't
                It's called theory of mind.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                More like
                >Why is Pomni having emotionaly hallucinations of it rescuing her like an angel when she's spent less than 1 minute around it?

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >less than one minute
                Anon, four people give speeches, it fades in and out of all of them, it's visual shorthand suggesting time past.
                >hallucinations
                It's symbolism for the audience's sake, they set up the metaphor and then reused it to wordlessly convey the arc's completion so it didn't require breaking the musical flow nor exposition of feelings.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                "What is audience conveyance"
                Again,

                Yeah its always great when important character development is just thrown off screen

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Anon, they put the metaphor on screen, you are just failing to interpret it and requesting a 11% increase to the story's length so they can explicitly tell what was already shown.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                it wouldn't hurt to give a 5 to 10 second scene to a side character.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                I swear people on Cinemaphile are so autistic when it comes to writing, this was all over the HH threads too
                Either something is quickly wrapped up in 10 seconds or its a long arc, the idea of a middle ground is incomprehensible to them

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Everyone was so hyped for the indie wave of cartoons but the more and more I see from it the more its own unique problems start to rear around.
                So far we have
                >Writers skipping to showrunning without proper experience under their belt leads to flawed narrative structure and pacing
                >A need to pander to the online demographic via theorybait, ship bait, what have you (same as mascot horror)

              • 1 week ago
                Anonymous

                > What if the first scene, instead of the pointless abstraction dream

                That scene wasn't pointless. It's important to the ending of the episode, and it establishes Pomni's feelings of alienation. By the end of the episode, she feels loved by the other characters instead of a pariah. Starting with Gummigoo would be pointless because it would add more emphasis to a character who will die in the same episode.

              • 1 week ago
                Anonymous

                >By the end of the episode, she feels loved by the other characters instead of a pariah
                And no one believes this, because she didn't spend any time with the other characters for like 90% of the episode.
                Try again.

              • 1 week ago
                Anonymous

                Most of other characters are busy while Ponmi isn't fitting it at all. There isn't a real moment where they fully get her.

              • 1 week ago
                Anonymous

                >she feels loved by the other characters
                What kind of tumblr ass post is this?
                She's not feeling loved she just doesn't think her life is meaningless to them. That theres a chance they would care if she died.

                [...]
                Strawman argument.
                No ones saying it should be half a season, or even more than one episode
                But if they want to do this kind of story beat, they cant jump from A to D and expect it to have weight. Because it wont, and it doesn't.

                What if the first scene, instead of the pointless abstraction dream, we established Gummy. Have him getting the crew ready for the job, then have him notice something off - maybe a glitch in the distance - establish that he feels somethings not right. Then boom, cut to Pomni.

                This one change alone helps establish the character early, instead of ten seconds before, and starts the ground work for him questioning his reality.
                As it is its "Hi, Im not real, big sad speech, boom he's dead" - fricking speed running an arc when theres so much wasted time

                As others have said, this isnt even genius writing tips you only learn from getting a degree - its bog standard pacing and set up/pay off. The fact they dont even get that much is worrying

                What level of writing are you all expecting in such a short series? Gummigoo ultimately doesn't matter, he's insert AI here, he's just emphasis to further explain how pomni feels and drive her more insane at the end. Is it bad writing? sure if you thought they were trying to go somewhere with it or this wasn't a short series. Whether he got proper back story or not doesn't matter cause he did his job and was killed. Of course people will get attached to him regardless cause they just do.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Question isn't if those other shows are paced the same; it's if that pacing is appropriate for the sort of story this particular show is trying to tell.
                I don't think it is. I think the emotional weight they're going for necessitates a different approach to be done correctly. As it currently stands, the mood swings up and down too sharply. Either draw it out and develop it a bit more so it feels more natural, or else soften those ups and downs so there's not such a jarring contrast between them.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                It doesn't need to be paced realistically, it needs to be paced believably.

                Gummi knows nothing about the digital world and yet, comes to the conclusion that everything is fake super fast with no setup. When he sees the character models, he immediately understands "these are us". Why wouldn't he just think they're statues? Why does he jump immediately to, "OH I'M NOT REAL"? Bad pacing, that's why.

                You don't need an entire season to have him accept he's an NPC, but you can't skip the entire step of discovery and grief process all together. All these "character development" moments of the show, and of a lot of modern cartoons lately, feel like the classic sitcom joke where a character goes through all the stages of grief in 30 seconds.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                It's a statue of himself and everyone he knows. The train of thought gets him to realize that he doesn't even know what his mother looks like. You have people in this thread complaining about how everything is spelled out in dialogue, and you want it spelled out even more?

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                But if you walked into a room of statues of yourself and everyone you know, you would not immediately think, "Wait, you mean I'm just a copy!?". That's the whole point of the step of denial. "That is NOT me, that's just a weird mannequin of me. Who is the creep making this? Get them out here now!".

                He doesn't go through the natural discovery of realizing that he's just a side character, that his world is just a construct, that Pomni is a main character, and that he's destined to lose. He gets the shock of being in a weird place, sees familiar faces, asks questions to which he gets responses with terminology he doesn't understand, then just falls into a depression because he suddenly understands all of it.

                It's like Gummi isn't his own character going through his own journey but instead reacting to how the audience would react to knowledge they already possess. It's bad.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Not everyone goes through denial.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Yeah, but Gummigoo didn't go through anything. He went from a tiny bit shock, to mostly depression, to acceptance.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Lot of things happened of screen when he told Pomni to explain what NPC is, its not like we saw his entire emotional journey

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Maui going through his character revelation off-screen sucked in Moana and it sucked here, too.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >Not everyone goes through denial.
                Clearly you haven't been on Cinemaphile long enough..

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                You've been in denial the whole time with how bad the writing is.

              • 1 week ago
                Anonymous

                > It's like Gummi isn't his own character going through his own journey but instead reacting to how the audience would react to knowledge they already possess. It's bad.

                I don't get it. Why is that a bad thing? Why waste all the time having the gator go through his revelations when the audience immediately understands what's happening as soon as they see all the T posed models?

              • 1 week ago
                Anonymous

                Because there's not as much emotional depth if you don't get to see how the gator goes through it. As it is, Gummigoo hits the story beats and that's it. Would it have been different if it had been one of his brothers, or the candy princess? Probably not. The fast and dirty "characters read the script" method gets you to the end result right away but also robs the whole thing of depth and character building. There's no arc - more like an outline of arc that didn't get fleshed into a real story.

              • 1 week ago
                Anonymous

                >would it have been different
                No, there is nothing unique about Gummigoo. The only thing we knew about him was that his mum was sick, and that was a lie. That isn't a flaw in the writing, that is the reality of his existence.
                The only thing that mattered was his pain at that realization, and Pomni's desire to comfort him.

              • 1 week ago
                Anonymous

                > Would it have been different if it had been one of his brothers, or the candy princess? Probably not.

                I don't see how that's a problem though. You could have swapped any of the characters out and I would have enjoyed it just as much because the character and their revelation are just a plot device for Pomni's pep talk. He has no characterization because he doesn't need it.

                >Actually, the bad writing is intended and it's genius!

                I think you're supposed to empathize with Gummigoo, but it really gets mixed up. For example, he lets his brothers leave with the second truck, which implies he cares about them, but then he still leaves them to a non-existence, which implies he doesn't care, or didn't think of it. But why wouldn't he think of it during his own existential crisis?

                The best explanation is that he was programmed to lose, so Pomni performed a "speech check" that only took 10 speech skill, and Gummigoo agreed to switch teams and do whatever she asked. That's the best answer I can think of that keeps it consistent.

              • 1 week ago
                Anonymous

                Neither of my two posts used the word genius.
                >nonexistence
                He explicitly stated he doesn't want them to experience the same revelation he went through, there would be no way to save them and keep them in the dark. Killing them was a mercy, in his eyes.
                >Speech check difficulty 10
                I think her performance was very wholesome : )

              • 1 week ago
                Anonymous

                Her performance was very trite and she said some fairly menial shit.

              • 1 week ago
                Anonymous

                > Would it have been different if it had been one of his brothers, or the candy princess? Probably not.

                I don't see how that's a problem though. You could have swapped any of the characters out and I would have enjoyed it just as much because the character and their revelation are just a plot device for Pomni's pep talk. He has no characterization because he doesn't need it.

              • 1 week ago
                Anonymous

                >Why is character development a bad thing

                I know these aren't trolls and are the actual audience for shit like this and it's just baffling how many people ITT seem to not understand basic writing. Like, no wonder you people are moved to tears by Steven Universe.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >be me
                >crash car into brick wall
                >car passes partway into it and begins accelerating jerkilly
                >fall hundreds of feet past giant floating identical teapots
                >hit ground at terminal velocity
                >walk it off like a man
                >landscape is a mathematically perfect labyrinth of dark, glowing, blue light
                >find an exact replica of me and everyone I know standing perfectly still
                >touch it
                >it's solid
                >question my sanity and my understanding of the universe
                >some guy online says I'm being rash and irrational

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                But he doesn't react to the truck clipping. He barely saw what was happening. You're transferring your knowledge of Tron world into him who wouldn't understand the significance of a gridded labyrinth.

                In the perspective of this character, he fell out of his truck which disappeared and he was transported to a strange location where he saw wax figure versions of everyone he knows. He has no knowledge of what a virtual reality is or what a video game is. He has no proper framework to translate what he's seeing, so how could he possibly jump to the conclusion of, "This is all constructed" so quickly?

                Actually understanding the character's mindset rather than just trying to hit the beats of a story is what separates good writing from generic.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                He doesn't say "this is all constructed" he asks "am I even real?"
                He doesn't have to understand video game logic to process that he is somewhere wrong, somewhere not meant to be seen.
                >he didn't react to the truck clipping
                Fine, he should assume he died in the crash, and that he is in hell, is this what you would expect as an afterlife? Glowing blue squares and a statue of you? He is confused and asks Pomni what this is, and then Pomni tells him off-screen.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Yeah its always great when important character development is just thrown off screen

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                We don't need to hear Pomni talking about video games. We see his reaction to the information. His arc does get shown, they just cut out the parts the audience is assumed to already understand.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Id say they show the bare minimum of his arc but they dont even do that

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >bare minimum but they didn't even do that
                Now you're just speaking hyperbolically. You know what happened and are complaining it happened to quickly. If they failed to even do the bare minimum we'd both be confused.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >He doesn't say "this is all constructed" he asks "am I even real?"
                >Fine, he should assume he died in the crash
                Different anon, but imagine how.much better of a response this whole segment would've gone if you simply changed "am I even real" to "am I dead? or "am I dreaming?"

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                It probably would have required additional dialogue to bridge the gap from a question about dreaming to "where is mum?" Pomni would have needed to confirm this was still reality before he could continue to spiral.
                Not saying it wouldn't have been workable, and not saying that what was shown was perfect, but the priority did seem to be brevity.

              • 1 week ago
                Anonymous

                Imagine if the gator had a dialogue with Pomni where he denies he's fake, and he keeps trying to tell her details about himself and his life, which would tell us a lot about who Gummigoo is, but he keeps getting tripped up at things like "What does mom look like", or "Have you ever met a girl gator". Then we'd know all about Gummigoo before he gets obliterated.

                Oh gee, I sure am glad we didn't do that and instead did a bunch of irrelevant stuff with a goo monster. Glad we didn't actually characterize the guy Pomni spent the whole episode with. That'd be dumb.

                I even like the goo guy and would be loathe to cut him, but goddamn if you want a compelling A plot where two characters emotionally connect you can't have your cake and eat it too with an amusing but irrelevant B plot running parallel.

              • 1 week ago
                Anonymous

                There was a difficult balance they were walking.
                Spend too little time on Gummi and people b***h about him being underdeveloped.
                Spend too much time and it feels like a waste because he was killed and the other characters go underdeveloped.
                People are complaining about both.
                Some shortcuts were necessary.

              • 1 week ago
                Anonymous

                vore fetishist pls understand

              • 1 week ago
                Anonymous

                *power drill rings like phone*
                It's for you.

              • 1 week ago
                Anonymous

                How far is Goose's vore fetish, are we talking like full digestion or is it just big belly

              • 1 week ago
                Anonymous

                Yes

              • 1 week ago
                Anonymous

                You tell me. Seems like full digestion is his kink.

                The real question is whether he is pred or prey.

              • 1 week ago
                Anonymous

                Hasn't one of her Ocs been drawn by another toon fetishist?

              • 1 week ago
                Anonymous

                Goose straight up drew that picture and a few other vore pics on their now privated "Gooseworse" twitter account.

                You can find the others as well as a vore animation that *might* have been made by him on the "vore1" board of 4+Cinemaphile in a designated thread.

              • 1 week ago
                Anonymous

                I almost commend Goose for not totally flipping out when people found out about it.

              • 1 week ago
                Anonymous

                Absolutely shameless

                ?si=rM84C4Yt7bOsGxqs
                also does anyone have a link to the fetish account

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >is this what you would expect as an afterlife? Glowing blue squares and a statue of you?
                It's the fricking afterlife, you shouldn't expect anything.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Anon, they literally canonize Caine as a known creator-deity figure with Catholic stained glass and everything.
                Most religions assert what the afterlife is supposed to be like.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Even most religious people don't actually expect Hell to be the center of the Earth filled with fiery brimstone and a man with horns and a red trident. The idea that someone ends up in a weird place and wouldn't think, "Am I dead?" just because it doesn't look like your picture perfect version of the afterlife is nonsense.

          • 1 week ago
            Anonymous

            Fricking this. I feel like every other critique in this thread so far have been missing the forest for the trees.

            • 1 week ago
              Anonymous

              This is what most of the complaints in this thread are about, dingus. There's no build, they just go straight for the finale material. I mean frick, the scene at the end of episode 2 should be a season finale thing after Pomni has actually talked to every other character. I don't think she's said two words to Zooble, and Jax has mostly been a dickhead who isn't even funny.

          • 1 week ago
            Anonymous

            Unironically this could be solved by more episodes in a season.
            If we had even one generic wacky adventure with the Kaufmo Funeral at the end and then spent an episode focused on the Gummigoo situation with only minor cutaways to the others it would of been way better.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      American literacy has fallen to sub 75% in the past few years and we have no oral tradition. So it makes sense that kids can't even process what feelings are (the gist of autism) let alone verbalize it (hence the normalization of expository dialogue)

      This is also why children aren't writing anything beyond fanfic and roleplay now. They cannot embody anything that isn't directly taken from media that told them how to think.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >It also feels like they see these "big moments" in a TV show and just want them NOW NOW NOW. They want the moment of Walter White laughing in the hole but they don't want to spend three seasons building up to it so they do it in the third fricking episode.
      It's not just that people want to rush to the "important" moments. In most cases, these showrunners KNOW they only have so much story they can tell (Two seasons tops), so something has to give to tell their big story.

  20. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    You cucks can't enjoy anything for more than a week.

    • 1 week ago
      Anonymous

      I sometimes wonder how Cinemaphile survives with so many utterly bereft of any joy.

      We're all absolutely nitpickers, but out of love for the medium. I swear.

  21. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >Writing wise? Atrocious.
    Nah.

  22. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    The writing isn't great, but it seems adequate to me. I feel like the greatest weakness is characterization, and it seems generally accepted in comedies to let that category suffer to make room for jokes

  23. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    I sometimes wonder how Cinemaphile survives with so many utterly bereft of any joy.

  24. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    It's writing is better than Helluva Boss and Hazbin.

  25. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >Has there been a more "ANIMATORS ARE NOT WRITERS" show than Digital Circus?
    Majority of anime.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Majority of anime are written by teens posting power fantasies on the Japanese equivalent of AO3.

  26. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    I noticed a significant drop in animation quality, like that brown blob's texture was see through for a couple brief moments etc.
    Is it just me?

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      any animation errors can be justified with the digital world setting

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        I know, bit these did not look intentional, like when characters start abstracting

  27. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Aww, dont worry, I'm sure you'll get your big writing break one day, OP

  28. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Man, the success of Digital Circus really has mindbroken writers. In every industry we see writers really just are not necessary. To be a creator in a visual medium, you need to have some ability to be able to create entertaining visuals. Otherwise, you just overstuff it with dialogue nobody gives a shit about.

    I'll take a John Bryne comic over Grant Morrison any day.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      I mean what we see in Digital Circus is that algorithmic advertising is a really big deal. TADC is well animated, and it can hold your attention. It's really sloppy, but it stands out in an environment rife with content farms and low-effort opinion videos. It's got more appeal than Monkey Wrench, which is failing because in spite of having great visuals, the Monkey Wrench characters have zero resonance with adults due to being annoying and it doesn't appeal to nine year-olds because they don't relate to being spergy, hopelessly single truck drivers in space.

  29. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Remove the bubble and the writing quality goes up tenfold.

    • 1 week ago
      Anonymous

      But the bubble makes me laugh

  30. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >people bringing up Toy Story
    They completely play up Buzz's reaction to the reality of what he is for laughs unlike with Gummigoo.

  31. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Why can't people understand, writing is easy.
    You just need to have nuanced, layered dialogue where characterization is slowly implied with time for the feelings to breathe and remove all unnecessary fluff that slows down audience comprehension.

  32. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    When TADC first came out last year, I remember making a pretty effortful post about how both the WRITING and ANIMATION were shitty.

    Unfortunately, nobody cared.

    So while I do agree with you OP, the reality is that TADC is literally immune to criticism. I mean that in the sense of, you cannot critique it, and if you do, people will find some way to ignore you or pretend you don't get it.

    BTW to anyone curious how the animation is bad (it should be obvious why the writing is bad) ask yourself why all these modern shows spend their entire budget on character rigging instead of, yanno, taking advantage of the medium of CG.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Ah, the animation is good if you're respecting the budget and risk. I'd say "It's not like it's a Disney film" but these days even Disney cuts a lot of corners. It has appeal in motion and it works without adding millions in costs.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        I disagree, it comes across to me like trying to be hyperactive and ADHD but doing jack shit once it runs out of ways to manipulate models like we're in Gmod. Go back and watch the pilot, seriously. The amount of times characters are not only standing motionless and talking, but with a completely static background where nothing even happens to divert attention, is insulting. It's not even about keeping the kids interested, that's not my issue, it's that they built these environments for a cartoon and just left them empty, devoid of life, and knowing how trendy TADC is they probably did this on purpose for the "liminal space" meme.

        But I'm just rambling.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      I'd love to see it if you want to link it.

    • 1 week ago
      Anonymous

      it's not immune to criticism. You sound whiney as frick

  33. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >Pomni's sense of reality is in freefall
    >Her cracking a bit every time something horrible happens is bad

    "Writers" probably don't even remember that she's been in this shit for like a day and everything just keeps getting worse.

  34. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    ...but enough about Murder Drones.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Murder Drones is pretty good, though.
      Both TADC and MD have different things going for them, preferences are fine and variability is good.

  35. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Steven Universe.

  36. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    John K would have loved it for sure.

  37. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    That a lot of words for “I don’t know what I’m talking about”

  38. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >Has there been a more "ANIMATORS ARE NOT WRITERS"

    Monkey Wrench.

    Most boring story and character ever written.

  39. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    The Digital Circus is gonna the worst current Cinemaphile fanbase for sure.
    I mean look at how they are reacting when someone offers a fair criticism of their beloved meme show, passive aggressive and defensive like an insecure teenage girl.
    Is not a surprise honestly, this happens with every meme show that appeals to autistic people, they are already flooding the catalogue with tons of meaningless threads discussing stupid shit about their show. Let's just hope it doesn't gets as bad as the horse show.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Unironically 3/4 of the active circus threads were started by OPs complaining about the show in one way or the other.
      >why aren't they kids?
      >why is the writing not as good as the animation?
      >why was a death scene funny?
      If people actually want the circus contained to a single thread, they should check the catalog before posting criticism.

  40. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    he'll be back

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      I hope not, what the frick was that voice actor doing whispering all his lines?

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Regardless of how quickly the script pushed him through ought the arc, his acting was excellent, especially the terrified, pained whispering.

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          I thought it was cringe, like a kid in their bedroom trying super hard to be emotional

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            you sound too stuck up for your own good.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Since Gummigoo is a reptile, does he have one penis or two? Or is that only for snakes

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        He has zero because Caine is a wholesome, Christian, family-friendly, corporate god.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        he's a gummy candy in a mock pg video game where there aren't even allowed to swear, if you want to lust over something lust over the thousands of furshit oc's you've made in your spare time,

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        sit he's made of candy and this is not a porn game.

        • 1 week ago
          Anonymous

          He's made of sugars mate and gelatin

          • 1 week ago
            Anonymous

            He's made of 1s and 0s

      • 1 week ago
        Anonymous

        Since no one else is answering the question.

        He only has one, two is for squamata (Lizards and snakes).

        • 1 week ago
          Anonymous

          Goose in shambles, how will she ever recover?

    • 1 week ago
      Anonymous

      If he does get 'reused' at some point do you think he'll retain his memory or will he revert to factory settings?

      > Inb4 he remembers everything, but especially being exploded by Caine as he was forced to relive that moment on loop until he is eventually respawned, ala Glad0s.
      Too edgy?

      • 1 week ago
        Anonymous

        Too much thought put in. The way it's written so far, if Gummigoo comes back he'll do exactly what the plot says he'll do. If the plot calls for him to have relived his death on loop, then yes, but why would it?

  41. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Just once it would be nice for Cinemaphile to get excited for a show that isnt made entirely for preteens and midwits

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Any recommendations?

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        place my nuts onto your eyes and stare into them.

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Sorry, I've been porn-free for like 10 months.

  42. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    I think the big problem with this episode is that it splits our protagonists up yet again to have them hang out with characters they barely know. That's bad considering this episode was supposed to be about Pomni learning to trust them.

    If I were to tweak it I'd say they should've kept up that dynamic of Ragatha acting LARPy and Pomni acting sober.

    Have this conflict lead up into Gummigoo questioning as to why they're treating him so differently. Against Ragatha's wishes, Pomni reveals he is an NPC. Pomni then of course offers him to come back and he gets zapped.

    From there, Pomni realizes that she made things worse with her obsession with finding an exit to her problems. She apologizes to Ragatha for ditching her for the exit last episode. And maybe Ragatha apologizes for being so LARPy and not realizing Pomni's pain. They then have sex. The end.

  43. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >Has there been a more "ANIMATORS ARE NOT WRITERS" show
    Anon.
    Rwby.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Begone. We do not speak that show's name.

      • 1 week ago
        Anonymous

        R

  44. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    I want to see ANIMATION. If i wanted good writing, I'd read a book.

  45. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    When was the last "WRITERS are NOT ANIMATORS" cartoon you've watched?

  46. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    I don't really have anything more to say about the story that hasn't already been said here, but the scene direction just feels very awkward at places. Like the scene where Jax throws Pomni out of the truck. we never actually see the cars getting close, but here they are right next to each other.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Yeah, a lot of corners being cut

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Doesn't really feel like a something that's cut out for time or budget considering how easy of a shot it would be. Just 2 trucks driving in a desert. No need for any complex character animation.

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          They needed that time to have one gator making weird poses while he's dragged behind truck. Nobody agrees on what that was. Some people say he was doing iframe dodges, but I think it was just a "hit" animation that didn't read well because the rocks weren't even visible before they struck him.

          • 1 week ago
            Anonymous

            It's a pizza tower reference.

            ?feature=shared&t=22
            I don't know why it is in there.
            Same with the 'master of unlocking' reference.
            Both instances seemed a little off-beat and out of the blue.

  47. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    I agree. It's all over the place. It started off great too. All episode 2 needed to be was a Mad Max road chase gag filled episode. But they had to shove half baked loreshit into it. And the lore they did cover was not what you do in a show's second episode. They jumped the gun and it just feels so randomly placed. People have forgotten how to write a season of television.

  48. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    thought the pink/orange thing trying to anally vore Pomni until i saw the eyes

  49. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Pomni origin story leaked

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Is this canon?
      So it is just a trans allegory..

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        "Is this canon" he asks of a picture which is clearly lacking Pomni's iconic unicorn horn.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      What if every character were the opposite gender of their real selves?

      Would it be gay?

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Mathematically, reversing all genders wouldn't alter the parity of the relationships, it'd just either make or un-make them all eggs.
        Also, basically all the ships are completely unsubstantiated, except maybe Gangle lusting after Ragatha figures.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        It would be kinda pointless.

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Pomni could do another big freak out over the reveal. To be honest, realizing your gender got mixed up on top of everything might be worth the crazy laugh, because it IS meaningless in context but that would just be another slap in the face. I mean, if she didn't do the freak out twice per episode as it is.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Sure it could be a chuckle, but this is still the internet, you know how this usually goes afterwards because we can´t keep things at harmless fun.

            • 2 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              If Jax were better written, he'd be the best character for it.

              "You mean this whole time I've been mad I don't have a wiener... AND I NEVER HAD ONE!?"

              But honestly I can't imagine them doing the delivery or set up the justice to make it worth it.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                It's weird how I can't tell if he's supposed to be a misogynist, because the only men he knows are god and grandpa dementia.

              • 1 week ago
                Anonymous

                He’s more like an opportunistic nihilist who fricks around when he knows other people will find out

              • 1 week ago
                Anonymous

                He's a stupid whiny b***h, is what he is. The characterization for him is way off the mark. If he keeps going the way he is he'll be better off as a Daffy Duck slapstick bit where he gets smacked around to let the audience know he's dumb and wrong.

              • 1 week ago
                Anonymous

                I love to see the cope that 'Tumblr' accidentally made a gamer into a sexyman™ and is trying to walk it back.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      kys

    • 1 week ago
      Anonymous

      Fake and gay. The characters only forget their name and the creator who is a troon even said that they remember their lives so they would have blatantly mentioned being turned male or female because troons can't help but talk about trannies and troony accessories

  50. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    TADC is just incredibly average writing-wise, it really isn't that bad. the problem is people overhyping it and acting like everything has to be this incredible mind-blowing piece of medium, of course it has flaws but it's nothing particularly that outlandish. the only thing that really bothers me so far is the amount of exposition.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Anon, half the people in this thread are asking for more exposition.

  51. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Citations? Justifications? Details?

  52. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >subject
    Movie, not a show, but Goose’s favorite movie and one of his biggest sources of inspiration, Raggedy Ann and Andy: A Musical Adventure. It’s peak symbolism and experimentation over narrative writing. Parts of the movie were pointless but no one really cares the animation was just that good.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >Raggedy Ann and Andy: A Musical Adventure
      Watched this yesterday. The songs are mostly super forgettable, but it has it's charm
      I liked how Ann and Andy look the most in the scenes where they meet the camel

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        they look so charming here

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        I think the camel’s and taffy songs were remembered the most? A lot of the charm comes from the way the Raggedys move and sound. They flop around like real dolls, and the contrast between the wackiness surrounding them and their soft voices is very nice. The movie in general has a very distinct, folksy look that you never see anymore. For them, it really helps.

        • 1 week ago
          Anonymous

          what do you mean by folksy?

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        I think the camel’s and taffy songs were remembered the most? A lot of the charm comes from the way the Raggedys move and sound. They flop around like real dolls, and the contrast between the wackiness surrounding them and their soft voices is very nice. The movie in general has a very distinct, folksy look that you never see anymore. For them, it really helps.

        Behold, the most memorable song.

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          This thing looks more like boogers or shit than taffy...

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Free my boy Caseoh

      • 1 week ago
        Anonymous

        WELL YOU CAN
        PUSH ME, SHOVE ME, TURN ME AROUND BUT I'M-
        NO GIRL'S TOY!

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >Parts of the movie were pointless but no one really cares
      People care enough that it's not really a timeless classic like The Iron Giant or Land Before Time are. Instead, it just has a devote fanbase of artists who admire it for its technical ability. I guess you can say that it's successful somewhere, but you're definitely losing a giant portion of a potential audience by having writing that goes nowhere. It's not as if you can't have a surreal animated movie that looks gorgeous and still hooks you in with the story.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        I actually agree with that. It was a huge flop in the box office. Like you said, its fans tend to like the technical parts more than the story. Part of the reason I brought it up is that Goose seems to be trying to make up for it by telling his story more conventionally, like the whole Gummigoo business.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        And it's not as if you couldn't post western examples instead of japanese on the western cartoon board.

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          There's not a lot of Western examples (that Cinemaphile has seen) of surreal animated movies with incredible technical ability put into them. There's plenty of surreal Western movies period, but they also have very experimental art styles which contributes to them feeling weird and surreal. Nobody watches Yellow Submarine and goes, "WOW! How did they DO that? The animation is GORGEOUS!".

          I'm not saying these movies are visually bad, but they're not on the same level as Raggedy Ann & Andy which just feels like a bunch of talented artists throwing talent at the wall and seeing what sticks.

          • 1 week ago
            Anonymous

            So you want surreal visuals which aren't experimental? Or i don't get it.
            >Nobody watches Yellow Submarine and goes, "WOW! How did they DO that? The animation is GORGEOUS!".
            No, but i did think that for other movies.

            • 1 week ago
              Anonymous

              I'm saying things like Richard Williams stories have these insane animation technical marvel to them with very surreal atmosphere and unconventional writing. People flock to that movie because of the art for the most part. You'll have an easier time finding similar material in the East, but not the West. A lot of "surreal animated movies" tend not to look like incredible technical marvels where you question how a human did them, but instead, very experimental and interesting art styles that some might appreciate but not everyone.

              Like, some artists will appreciate Wizards' animation. But EVERY artist will marvel at the Fudge scene in Raggedy Ann.

  53. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    I just want to come into this thread to say that anyone b***hing about dialogue better be a literary genius or I'm calling them a massive wienersucking homosexual

    pic unrelated

  54. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    I can see Cinemaphile being contrarian again

  55. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    What the frick is that weird ass thread? Why almost every single comment sounds nearly identical, why most of replies sounds like someone finishing another person point almost as if they knew exactly what they were thinking ? Why is everybody talking in the same way? Is that really 90% one single autist?

    • 1 week ago
      Anonymous

      this board really should have ids, the samegayging argument every thread is very obnoxious

      • 1 week ago
        Anonymous

        No one talk about samegayging most of the time but it's ridiculously blatant in this thread, the guy is not even trying to hide his writing style. This entire thread feels like a guy huge personal blog.

        • 1 week ago
          Anonymous

          >Writing style
          What fricking writing style? Using line breaks? Using punctuation? I could say these posts are the same person

          What the frick is that weird ass thread? Why almost every single comment sounds nearly identical, why most of replies sounds like someone finishing another person point almost as if they knew exactly what they were thinking ? Why is everybody talking in the same way? Is that really 90% one single autist?

          >almost every single comment sounds nearly identical
          How exactly? Because everyone is criticizing the same things? Gee I fricking wonder why? Must be samegayging!

          and say "oh, the writing style is the same!" and that doesn't explain jackshit.

    • 1 week ago
      Anonymous

      >almost every single comment sounds nearly identical
      How exactly? Because everyone is criticizing the same things? Gee I fricking wonder why? Must be samegayging!

      • 1 week ago
        Anonymous

        You just ignored everything I just said.

    • 1 week ago
      Anonymous

      If you ask me it's refreshing to see a consensus on what's wrong with the show's writing. Normally with something like this you might get a lot of argument, but with TADC it's just a straight, "Yeah, I see the story beats they're going for but they're not setting up the payoff and the characters aren't coming into their archetypes."

      I've never gone into a Cinemaphile complaint thread about a show and been relieved it wasn't just me who noticed stuff like that.

    • 1 week ago
      Anonymous

      The lack of ESLs shocks the newbie to his very core.

  56. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    I've never really understood why it should matter whether you're arguing with five people or one, if they're saying dumb shit it just means they're saying it five times as much.
    It just seems like a way to make the biggest schizo think they win every argument they've ever had.

  57. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    >AAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHH THIS TOONSLOP FOR 6 YEAR OLDS HAS BAD WRITING AAAAAAAAHHHHHH WHERES THE DEEP LORE AND CHARACTER DEVELOPMENT IM GOING INSAAAAAAANE

    • 1 week ago
      Anonymous

      Caine, get over here, there might be time to save this anon.

  58. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    Steven Universe.

  59. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    It only has two episodes. sigh...

    • 1 week ago
      Anonymous

      Yeah, but they both have a consistent problem of jumping to the BIG PAYOFF with no setup. For the pilot, Pomni immediately knows she's trapped in TADC and has her first big mental break. Then she has another at the end. It's not totally earned, but it is a pilot and it's trying to pitch what the show will be, so okay.

      But then episode two is more missing the mark with characterization and rushing through the motions of the story beats. You don't have to wait to judge, it's a problem with consistency.

      • 1 week ago
        Anonymous

        I don't idolize TADC, for me this is like entertainment popcorn and forget, I may not have such high standards as you, really it's ok sometimes just to relax and shut your mind.

        • 1 week ago
          Anonymous

          That's what everybody says when a show's falling apart narratively and you can't really look it dead on.

  60. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    Pomni lookin good in latex

  61. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    >Visually its great
    Stopped reading right there.

  62. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    People were talking about a rewrite of the scene with Ponmi and Gummigoo and I got one. If I'm gonna complain about the writing of something I might as well prove I can't writer either.

    Ponmi is trying to use a giant candy to make the car go up again. Gummigoo is with her.

    - Hey, would you mind… helping me here?
    - Why would I, you wanted to annihilate me and my lads, I saw your plan. Stay off or it’ll get dirty. I'll find my own way to leave this threatening candy cave.
    - I can’t take it anymore!! All we do in LARPing and LARPing in that place!!
    - Where?
    - In that stupid circus where I come from. Run by this sadistic talking teeth guy. Why am I even telling this to you, you are not even real. For all I know you were created a few hours ago.
    - Wowowow, hold your candy, I’m not real??
    - Yeah, you are a non playable character in this… thing.
    - What about you, are you “real”?
    - Yes. Or so I’ve been told. I mean, do you even have memories?
    (Gummigoo starts looking around.)
    - Come to think of it, I don't know how I got this candy truck or how I’ve met those guys or how I was born.
    - See? You’re like me now, nothing and without a point. I’d rather stay in this nothingness, suits me better.
    - What is that statue of me and the lads with their arms posing like a letter T?

    • 1 week ago
      Anonymous

      (continues here...)

      (Ponmi lays down in defeat)
      - Does it even matter?
      - I have so many questions, who created me?
      - … That teeth guy…
      - Then we gotta go back to that… place… that…
      - Circus?
      - Circus! Where that teeth guy lives if he created me he for sure will be able to suffice me with all the answers I seek.
      - I don’t wanna go back to that place, I told you I wanna stay here.
      - Don’t you have questions too? I might’ve been born just a few hours ago, I have no idea who you are or if you’re even telling the truth yet all I know is that we have to come back and confront that teeth guy.
      (Ponmi finally stands up)
      - You know what? I DO have some words with Caine. I won’t stay here for longer. Let's go.
      - All I ask is that we don’t tell the lads… [same as the actual episodes]
      [SKIP AHEAD]
      Caine just poofed away Gummigoo.
      - Remind her of the rules, no non-playable characters in the circus, they always make a mess and then I’m the one taking care of them. And whoever breaks the rules… WILL DISAPPEAR FOREVER!!! Ha, ha, ha, ha, OK?

      Ngl this is even worse than the actual scene. For one thing:

      >I'll find my own way to leave this threatening candy cave.
      and
      >I can’t take it anymore!!
      do not match up with each other at all. Even as tryhard as Pomni is written sometimes, she still wouldn't have this reaction in this circumstance as a result of that sentence. She'd probably say something like "Let's not split up!" or "Wait! I could really use some help right now".

      • 1 week ago
        Anonymous

        I accept changes or criticism. In fact, it'd be fun if Cinemaphile rewrote the scene to better state in a collaboration. Just to prove we actually know what we are talking about.

        But enough about my cringy wishful thinking.

      • 1 week ago
        Anonymous

        Gummigoo here and I forgot to point it out, he's suppose to be so in-character. So much so Ponmi just gets tired because she can't have a heart to heart conversation with anyone, is all like a soulless videogame more or less.

        At least that's how I pictured it.

    • 1 week ago
      Anonymous

      >look mom im writing!
      somehow even cringier than the show

  63. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    (continues here...)

    (Ponmi lays down in defeat)
    - Does it even matter?
    - I have so many questions, who created me?
    - … That teeth guy…
    - Then we gotta go back to that… place… that…
    - Circus?
    - Circus! Where that teeth guy lives if he created me he for sure will be able to suffice me with all the answers I seek.
    - I don’t wanna go back to that place, I told you I wanna stay here.
    - Don’t you have questions too? I might’ve been born just a few hours ago, I have no idea who you are or if you’re even telling the truth yet all I know is that we have to come back and confront that teeth guy.
    (Ponmi finally stands up)
    - You know what? I DO have some words with Caine. I won’t stay here for longer. Let's go.
    - All I ask is that we don’t tell the lads… [same as the actual episodes]
    [SKIP AHEAD]
    Caine just poofed away Gummigoo.
    - Remind her of the rules, no non-playable characters in the circus, they always make a mess and then I’m the one taking care of them. And whoever breaks the rules… WILL DISAPPEAR FOREVER!!! Ha, ha, ha, ha, OK?

  64. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    Writers fricking suck.

  65. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    Write gay thread do not respond.
    Go write a novel mook.

  66. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    it probably could have been done better but it's not immediately obvious how you squeeze the concept in with so little time. I think a better structure wouldn't have fallen back on the video game stuff so quickly, but one of TADC's gimmicks seems to be the whole poorly coded simulation thing so I guess they really wanted to make sure to work that in.

    I think maybe they should have hooked around to the whole 'Caine is God' thing, and framed the story as Pomni and the others being 'divine' or something, and Gummigoo's crisis of existence is framed as 'our reality vs God's' so that it's not a TOTAL break in his immersion. Like he can still freak out but frame it as him, I dunno, being unable to accept that God created him specifically to be evil and defeated by Pomni or something. Then you can have Pomni bend over backwards to try and not reveal the ACTUAL nature of his existence but you still get to draw all the same parallels that gets her out of her own mental problems, and the rest of the episode can play out normally.

    then Gummigoo could have gone 'Oh wow it's God, Pomni was right life does have meaning' and then got immediately obliterated and that might have been even funnier.

  67. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    Would the show have been anywhere as successful if Pomni looked like this?

    • 1 week ago
      Anonymous

      Nope. Ponmi was made to be marketable for the better or the worse.

  68. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    This has probably been posted already but isn't this just how zoomers write?

    • 1 week ago
      Anonymous

      Goose is like 30. I think it's millennials or whatever the frick.

      • 1 week ago
        Anonymous

        Goose is one year before the zoomer start point but ulturally falls squarely in the "Spent childhood pre-smartphone" unlike the post aprox-2004 zoomers Who spent their childhoods in the post-smartphone era.

  69. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    You guys have wayyy to high expectations for a silly babbys first blender animation show. Its not supposed to be high art. It wasn't even meant to be anything more than the pilot but its fanbase grew

    • 1 week ago
      Anonymous

      Any producer would suck your dick if you pitch him something like this. You have to be braindead to not see TADC as a hit show. It's not even about writing or animation, just idea itself prints money. It was expected to be a hit and Glitch at that time hired Kevin Temmer as lead animator who's not working for peanuts.

      • 1 week ago
        Anonymous

        I still don't know why Keven is such a big deal. Like I watched his youtube back catalogue after Somebody Else and its cool but just cool ya know?

  70. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    I think its fine so far as long as they keep it to like 5 episodes and end it in the most tragic way possible. The worst thing that could happen is the creator getting to attached to their characters and giving them a "happy ending" when literally no one is asking for that

  71. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    >Animators are not writers
    As a different example for your peanut brain: New Ren & Stimpy had dedicated writers and didn't allow animators or anyone else into the room and turned way worse. You stink of ideas guy, that's our current bane in any creative field.

    • 1 week ago
      Anonymous

      On the other hand we have the golden age of the Simpsons in which the original animators were kicked off the show for doing their animator thing.

  72. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    None of the popular characters are relatable.
    Also only popular because "what if cute thing but fricked up!?"

  73. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    I know I can't write for shit, so that's why I don't even try.

  74. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    My problem with Jax being a jerk is not because he is bad, but because it's is not funny, creative, charismatic and it's out of place.

    • 1 week ago
      Anonymous

      Agree. You can see his archetype is supposed to be the Joker, where if he sprays your face with acid it's because he's having a good time, but all he does is whine and talk the other characters down. Where's the good time? Where's the jokes?

    • 1 week ago
      Anonymous

      My problem is that it's written snark instead of natural snark. I don't know if it's the performance feeling stilted or if the lines are just lame. But if you watch someone naturally good at sarcasm, like a David Spade-type actor, it flows well and the jokes hit. "There was a bazooka here, now wheeereee did I puuuut it?" is kind of generic line for a witty butthole character.

      ?si=tjYaDFFlybxsC1cP
      The very end bit with Roseanne and Dan's lines nail what I'm talking about.

  75. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    I hate when fans try to reverse engineer a whole new product using hindsight by “fixing” perceived flaws in a finished project, and then act like the creators should have done all those choices from the start, as though they could have perfectly predicted how the product was going to turn out prior to sitting down and starting the writing. It shows a fundamental lack of understanding for the creative process. Rewriting something that’s already been made is easier than making it from scratch.

    • 1 week ago
      Anonymous

      >Rewriting something that’s already been made is easier than making it from scratch.
      Yeah, it's called the editing and reviewing process and it's weird you're acting like the entire TADC crew was incapable of it.

      • 1 week ago
        Anonymous

        What I’m talking about isn’t editing, though. It’s just brainstorming, using an already finished episode as the base and focusing on a limited set of critiques that the one fan was somewhat dissatisfied with. Editing actually involves having access to the unfinished material and altering it: including full scripts, story boards, sound, etc, and usually also involves communication with the original creator about their intentions.

        • 1 week ago
          Anonymous

          You're talking about criticism which can sometimes involve brainstorming.

          >"This thing is bad."
          >Oh yeah? How would you fix it?
          >"Well, maybe go in this direction..."

          Is a very natural conversation when criticizing media.

          • 1 week ago
            Anonymous

            Yeah, and sometimes it’s not so bad. It’s often fun, even, and I get that. But it can feel obnoxious and grating when people take it too seriously and are too full of themselves, and shit all over the actual show for relatively minor problems in the process.

            • 1 week ago
              Anonymous

              Half of the episode which is leading up to and dedicated to an emotional beat that doesn't hit isn't really a minor problem.

              • 1 week ago
                Anonymous

                Which ending beat are you saying didn't land?
                Gummi's death, or the funeral?

              • 1 week ago
                Anonymous

                Most of the thread has been about Gummigoo's character arc with introducing him, discovering who he is, talking to Pomni, and then his sudden death at the end and how none of it hit the way it should have. No one is talking about the stranded truck or the fudge monster, it's all about the other plot.

              • 1 week ago
                Anonymous

                >Gummigoo, a throwaway character designed exclusively for a mean-spirited joke, was not well developed enough.
                Childhood is wanting Gummigoo to come back, adolescence is thinking his writing was bad, adulthood is when you realize he only existed to make Pomni suffer more. Furries need to leave.

              • 1 week ago
                Anonymous
  76. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    >tfw trapped in digital playground
    >I have no genitals and I must cream

  77. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    Honestly, this, I haven't finished the first episode to this day because it feels like is too over the place.

    I find the fricking memes a lot more interesting.

  78. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    Better writing than 90% than TV-cartoon slop.

  79. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    There is no sex switching because Pomni and Ragatha closely follow feminine body and hip movements which wouldn't be programmed into their avatars. Its a learned phenomenon as in they were female before

  80. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    Yes correct on all counts but it doesn't matter because cartoons are a visual medium. Read a book if you want good writing. Watch TADC if you want good direction and design. I'm the most writing-biased person I know and TADC hits just enough over par there to be carried by its visual direction.

  81. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    I CAN'T ESCAPE

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