Fleischer completely went all out on this since that after making the flop that was mr bug goes to town it bankrupted them. Looking at this again I can easily see that the 90s Superman show was clearly inspired art wise by this
They were shorts meant to be played before the feature presentations in theaters, rather than weekly episodes of a television series. So that contributes heavily.
A lot of it was just good old talent and ambition, though. Not to mention creativity, given stuff like the famous example of Superman gaining the power of flight because it was cheaper to animate. It's definitely extremely impressive how well these cartoons hold up, in any case.
Nope originally he only had super strength,speed and invisibility. heat ray vision and the rest came later as well as a bunch of other crazy fricking powers pre infinity crisis
>as well as a bunch of other crazy fricking powers pre infinity crisis
Remember that single time Superman got the ability to shoot rainbows from his hands that magically created a tiny clone of him, but then he grew jealous of said tiny clone, tried to kill it, and then watched it sacrifice itself to save him from his own stupidity?
Good time. Superman #125, story 3
Worse, because Fleischer didn't want to make the Superman serials, so he asked for an absurd amount of money, so they'd say no.
They said yes, and then he made it anyways. This was way more than 80s OVA money.
>Any generic anime outclasses it
Never in a million years will any anime be better than it. Ever. If the 80s bubble didn't burst, there'd be a chance that they'd make something on par, but there's no way in hell that any studio can match it.
All your cgi spam will never be as visually impressive as these.
No. I'm sorry. Take off your nostalgia glasses. No kid would want this over your typical anime show...which is why it isn't produced anymore and why anime is taking over 2D animation.
I am a weeb and all but shut up. Fleicher was basically the peak of American animation and while there are plenty of anime on a similar level it took nearly a century to get there.
>posting anime on a board where anime isnt allowed
Only Cinemaphile is homosexual enough to ban people for off-topic images. Focus on the content of his shitpost.
Death battle is a western web animation gayot, just because the characters from your favorite Chinese cartoons are involved doesn't mean it's not western animation.
The anons need to do their part and report all anime postings. This homosexualry is annoying. Literally Cinemaphile is containment board for no anime. They need to get out
You posted cringe.
The real reason to praise anime in this regard is that anime tends to have more impressive camera work in action scenes. There's a reason whenever people see directing like this they immediately think "anime" because Western cartoons rarely ever take advantage of their medium like that.
It gets a lot of hate, some of it deserved but generally I don't think it's that bad. It's definitely a very amateurish production that used to be heralded by a genius of 3D animation but then he died and now his friends are trying to continue based on the scraps of story and footage he left before passing away. There are a lot of cool characters and interesting concepts in the story, I particularly like how the main heroines eventually have to question the methods of their mentors and continue the main quest by their own agency. But a lot of those characters/concepts are also heavily underutilized, INCLUDING SOME OF THE MAIN CHARACTERS. The fight scenes are hit or miss. So I guess keep your expectations fairly low and you'll have fun.
It also has my perfect and wonderful wife Ruby. Just saying.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Your wife is very beautiful anon, I hope you are happy together. As for RWBY I will probably check it out.
>The real reason to praise anime in this regard is that anime tends to have more impressive camera work in action scenes
That's the thing that's impressive to these people. They are the rejects of Cinemaphile who think that western animation is "bad" because it doesn't cater to their shitty fetishes and degenerate tastes. Their the same people who think jojo looks "bad" because the characters have actual lips and noses and look like they are older than 12.
This is extremely cringe
I'd say it's the anime equivalent of a Michael Bay action sequence but even Bay has a better eye for cinematography
The POV and the dynamic camera movement in the air shots help immerse you into the scene, emphasize the action and the breakneck pace of the air combat like you're being thrust around alongside them in the air. This is bad because...?
This is extremely cringe
I'd say it's the anime equivalent of a Michael Bay action sequence but even Bay has a better eye for cinematography
is right. These kinds of anime action sequences are just Michael Bay levels of composition used to hide the bad animation.
I mean, I will give credit that they're doing it because they have to because of money and time restraints, but that doesn't make it good. I just makes it thrifty.
>Michael Bay levels of composition
You keep using this comparison but you're not actually saying what's wrong with the composition or the directing. Does it not accomplish the things I pointed out in my previous post?
2 years ago
Anonymous
>What is wrong with disorienting jump cuts during action sequences >What is wrong with our models sliding around on the background erratically >What is wrong with cheap looking CGI effects mixed into our 2d animated fight scene
Watch one of the videos comparing modern action sequences to classic Jackie Chan choreography.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>What is wrong with disorienting jump cuts during action sequences
What jump cuts are there in this clip? You can see almost every attack. >What is wrong with our models sliding around on the background erratically
Yes, people tend to move erratically when in free fall. >What is wrong with cheap looking CGI effects mixed into our 2d animated fight scene
You mean the flashes? They look fine here, it's not distracting at all.
Not that anon but I said it before and I will say it again. Shit flying in your face is NOT the pinnacle of animation because HOW you convey the movement and the detail of the movement matters. It does not take that much to show shit moving fast, the camera work is nice and all but it's just there to make it look better than it actually is. For an example of this done better see the DBS "Brolly movie". In the mean time see GIF related for an example of good animation that isn't tryhard shit.
Things flying in your face does make for a climactic action piece, helping set it aside from everything else. Camera work is important in shaping a viewer's perception, no matter how you put it. And I don't think anything is particularly wrong with the animation in the clip. It's not super detailed but it gets the job done and conveys everything it needs to convey effectively.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>. It's not super detailed but it gets the job done and conveys everything it needs to convey effectively
"Gets the job done" isn't good enough when compared to one of the most influential animated film series in the world. You can cope by saying it's good enough but I have seen better animation AND better camera movement and that's a fact. You weebs and dweebs think your shit does not smell but everyone with a three digit IQ sees through your non arguments so you might as well drop the act.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Why are you being so hostile? I posted an example of camera work that the West simply does not do, or does rarely, that makes for an exciting climactic moment emphasizing the action. I wouldn't mind if the West did stuff like this more but it refuses to due to either low budget or low effort work ethic.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>Why are you being so hostile?
I don't see you people show up in Steven Universe threads talking about how much the average anime is compared to SU (which is true) but NO you have to show up to a thread talking about generally good examples of western animation and start trying to "enlighten" the anons of Cinemaphile only to play the victim when you get called out. > I posted an example of camera work that the West simply does not do
Does it need to? Like I said the anime posted are okay but I have seen better both in the west and east. The anime examples aren't some benchmark of what all animation should be and why would you want it all to be like this?
2 years ago
Anonymous
>talking about how much the average anime is compared to SU
*better the average anime is compared to SU.
2 years ago
Anonymous
I noticed a discussion was happening and decided to share my five cents about what makes the anime fights stand out from cartoon fights. Honestly, if SU practiced this kind of camera work more, it could probably get away with cheap animation and would be more beloved. >Does it need to?
At least some experimentation would be nice. Emphasizing emotional beats in a story with some sort of a visual change is what animation should be all about.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>At least some experimentation would be nice
The problem is when western animation does this none cares. Rise of TMNT's animation was cahrazy with all the camera work and anime like movement in the world but none cared. My point stands, these weebs a) don't know that much about animation especially western b) The anime they bring up usually isn't that good, far from the pinnacle of the animator's craft that weebs think their favorite haremshit/moeshit/shonenshit is.
2 years ago
Anonymous
I'm pretty sure all of /co. praised Rise of TMNT's animation. The autismo e-celeb reviewer Mr Enter even got shit for saying it was bad.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>I'm pretty sure all of /co. praised Rise of TMNT's animation. The autismo e-celeb reviewer Mr Enter even got shit for saying it was bad.
That's nice but that doesn't mean it did well financially especially in a climate where nickelodeon bosses expect every animated series to be the new sponge bob. >The autismo e-celeb reviewer Mr Enter even got shit for saying it was bad.
Really? When did Enter talk about RTMNT?
2 years ago
Anonymous
>I'm pretty sure all of /co. praised Rise of TMNT's animation.
homie have you even open a RISE thread in your life
Half the people never gave it a fair chance because the artstyle, others didn't think the animation was good because MUH ANIMUH and lastly you have the people that are incapable of detaching it from the rest of the tmnt franchise to enjoy it for what it is
I fricking wish people in here praised the show cause it deserves it
2 years ago
Anonymous
Not that anon but I said it before and I will say it again. Shit flying in your face is NOT the pinnacle of animation because HOW you convey the movement and the detail of the movement matters. It does not take that much to show shit moving fast, the camera work is nice and all but it's just there to make it look better than it actually is. For an example of this done better see the DBS "Brolly movie". In the mean time see GIF related for an example of good animation that isn't tryhard shit.
hahaha, never visit this board or Cinemaphile but this is pretty patently true depending on your metrics, and I love all the pants-shitting it summoned. That old Superman cartoon is amazing, I love it, but even your average anime has a dynamism and technical quality that surpasses it. Anime artists are much better at "gesture", as artists call it. The Superman cartoon, I would say, beats anime on charm and attention to detail (again, purely talking about animation), and obviously framerate. As for style, you could go either way. They both have highly developed styles - they're just different (though I wouldn't blame anybody for being sick of the style of most anime, since it became ubiquitous).
You're probably going to dismiss this as bait, and I won't blame you. But consider the following: >Solid, clean line work >Crisp shadow layer >Animated mostly one twos, with selective use of ones on fast actions or scenes that need to pop
All of these things are still being done in contemporary animation. Not so much in cartoons, though.
I like the part where Lois Lane decides to do a story on the mad scientist so she runs out of the office and flies her private plane into his front yard.
>Is a newspaper reporter >has a private plane
She is practically the bane of the modern journalist cuck. She has a high enough paying job in that short, she has enough money to have her own plane. Do you see that today with today's journos?
For one thing, when adjusted for inflation, the Superman shorts had a budget of roughly $300K per minute which is three times what they spent to make Watership Down in 1978 or about twice what Mugen Train cost even two years ago.
>And how would talent or ambition change things?
You could work within limitations to create master pieces. The mindset that old animations had bigger budgets and nothing else going for them is easily proven wrong.
I want DC to make an animated movie in the Fleischer Superman universe. Show us what Lex Luthor would look like, bring back the villains like The Mad Scientist, the Mechanical Monsters and the Bulleteers
Because Fletcher Superman is the iconic adaptation that effected other superman incarnations and even the source material. It's a very high bar that most other superman cartoons can't measure up to because of how great it is.
Would a superman video game work if it was made with the style of Fletcher cartoon hand drawn sprites and all? Kinda like the cup head of superhero video games?
I do. But the scene looks like something out of Looney Toons.
Anime is on a different level, it always have been. That's why it's still popular and that's why the last Superman show is over 20 years old. It's just facts at this point.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>I do. But the scene looks like something out of Looney Toons.
Is that an insult? Alright then let me spell it out for you in a way that should be obvious to everyone. Shit moving fast is not the pinnacle of animator's craft. There's all kinds of animation styles and approaches and yet you prefer animation that shows fast shit moving around and the shit moving is not even detailed or moving in the way that it should it's just fast. Superman by contrast is moving like an actual human being would if he was lifting something heavy, the movement feels very natural. Akira does something similar with it's animation, it's also the best anime film ever made. >That's why it's still popular and that's why the last Superman show is over 20 years old
Or maybe film has become the medium of choice for adopting comic books and the studios don't really care about animation that much anymore.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>Or maybe film has become the medium of choice for adopting comic books and the studios don't really care about animation that much anymore.
You made me laugh.
Anyway, why can't there be both movie and cartoon adaptions? Also, what recent successful movies have Superman had?
2 years ago
Anonymous
>You made me laugh.
That's my line! >why can't there be both movie and cartoon adaptions?
That's corporate logic, in truth both exist side by side but films are prioritized because they make more money. In fact WB recently cut the budget for animation because they are not getting enough shekels. Plus they force weird limitations on animation like how Justice League Unlimited could not use Batman villains because the batman movies where being made around that time. >Also, what recent successful movies have Superman had?
Man of Steel made hundreds of millions and was very successful and so was BVS. You don't have to like it but it's true.
>Oh wow look she's doing a spinny spin and there's things going WOOOSH
Not even good by anime "standards"
I do. But the scene looks like something out of Looney Toons.
Anime is on a different level, it always have been. That's why it's still popular and that's why the last Superman show is over 20 years old. It's just facts at this point.
These don't look all that different to me. They all use very basic directing without much experimentation.
the reason Fleischer Superman is kino is because he clearly evokes the Art Deco image of a strong man in the throes of physical exertion, which funnily enough conveys super strength and struggle far better than any modern interpretation of Superman has since maybe the fricking 90's
Turns out the kind of film you use to record the drawings also effects its quality. Cheap Filmstock Cheap Looking animation. Then you get what I call the Thundercats Effect where the title sequence doesn't just have more frames of animation, the film quality is objectively better than the one used for the rest of the show's animation.
Theatrical shorts had far bigger budgets since they were meant to be played in cinemas alongside movies, while TV shows were always cutting corners
It blew my mind as a kid to realize this, that the Fleischer Popeyes, Looney Tunes etc. were fundamentally different from the Hanna-Barbera shorts despite all being on hour-long blocks in CN
In my first week of watching CN I saw the "Popeye Show" was coming up and I had vague memories of a different show, in hindsight with all new animation, not the old shorts which I was exposed to for the first time
You can't fricking compare old shorts to modern cartoons. These shorts were made to be played in theaters. People had to pay directly every single time they wanted to watch.
It's really not. It's super impressive for the time and a great piece of animation history, but let's not pretend as if it's not also very basic beyond animation itself.
Because its in Technicolor
Fleischer completely went all out on this since that after making the flop that was mr bug goes to town it bankrupted them. Looking at this again I can easily see that the 90s Superman show was clearly inspired art wise by this
Skill, Talent, Money
Unfortunately Paramount at the time screwed over the Fleischer Bros and practically killed them in the '70s
SOVL
No.
It was because
Shazam was stomping their shit.
They were shorts meant to be played before the feature presentations in theaters, rather than weekly episodes of a television series. So that contributes heavily.
A lot of it was just good old talent and ambition, though. Not to mention creativity, given stuff like the famous example of Superman gaining the power of flight because it was cheaper to animate. It's definitely extremely impressive how well these cartoons hold up, in any case.
>Superman gaining the power of flight because it was cheaper to animate
He couldn't always fly?
no, he literally leaped buildings in a single bound and kind of floated but never flew like we know today
Nope originally he only had super strength,speed and invisibility. heat ray vision and the rest came later as well as a bunch of other crazy fricking powers pre infinity crisis
>as well as a bunch of other crazy fricking powers pre infinity crisis
Remember that single time Superman got the ability to shoot rainbows from his hands that magically created a tiny clone of him, but then he grew jealous of said tiny clone, tried to kill it, and then watched it sacrifice itself to save him from his own stupidity?
Good time.
Superman #125, story 3
He also wasn't weak to Kyptonite until the VA for the Superman radio show wanted a vacation
>why is high-budget theatrical animation better than low-budget tv shit?
seriously?
So basically, like weebs who confuse OVAs with weekly anime?
Worse, because Fleischer didn't want to make the Superman serials, so he asked for an absurd amount of money, so they'd say no.
They said yes, and then he made it anyways. This was way more than 80s OVA money.
History repeats
1990s were the new 1950s
2000s were the new 1960s
2010s/2020s are the new 1970s
Hopefully that means we're due for a booming 80s next
NO we're headed for a bronze age collapse.
Craftmanship towards making quality instead of cutting corners.
I wouldn't say it holds up. Any generic anime outclasses it. But effort clearly went into the animation which gives it that Disney charm.
>Any generic anime outclasses it
Never in a million years will any anime be better than it. Ever. If the 80s bubble didn't burst, there'd be a chance that they'd make something on par, but there's no way in hell that any studio can match it.
All your cgi spam will never be as visually impressive as these.
So many butt hurts.
Ive seen what's impressive to these people their insults mean nothing dear anon.
No. I'm sorry. Take off your nostalgia glasses. No kid would want this over your typical anime show...which is why it isn't produced anymore and why anime is taking over 2D animation.
Love it or hate it, it's fact.
McDonalds is also very popular, doesn't mean it's good.
Your typical anime might as well be the considered the fast food of animation.
>>>Food analogy
kek
>non response
I accept your concession.
holy bait
Your opinion should be illegal.
>posting anime on a board where anime isnt allowed
Imagine getting this offended by an anime girl.
imagine getting this offended by people not liking anime
kys Black person
I am a weeb and all but shut up. Fleicher was basically the peak of American animation and while there are plenty of anime on a similar level it took nearly a century to get there.
Only Cinemaphile is homosexual enough to ban people for off-topic images. Focus on the content of his shitpost.
I hope this is b8 because nobody could be this wrong
Low effort, but guaranteed replies. GJ.
This alligator looks like he's living his best life.
Why aren't the new jannies doing anything? These f/a/ggots need to be shot on sight. I bet they are trans who identifies as women
Where are you rule lawyers in the Death Battle threads?
Death battle is a western web animation gayot, just because the characters from your favorite Chinese cartoons are involved doesn't mean it's not western animation.
Please always report those threads. They're offtopic too with constant anime shilling
No the weebs are femboys, which is better than trannies because of Reasons
The anons need to do their part and report all anime postings. This homosexualry is annoying. Literally Cinemaphile is containment board for no anime. They need to get out
were you dropped at birth?
You posted cringe.
The real reason to praise anime in this regard is that anime tends to have more impressive camera work in action scenes. There's a reason whenever people see directing like this they immediately think "anime" because Western cartoons rarely ever take advantage of their medium like that.
It looks like a fricking video game.
Make sure to play RWBY: Arrowfell when it releases this Fall! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zP3SWyAd1nQ
Is RWBY worth getting into?
It gets a lot of hate, some of it deserved but generally I don't think it's that bad. It's definitely a very amateurish production that used to be heralded by a genius of 3D animation but then he died and now his friends are trying to continue based on the scraps of story and footage he left before passing away. There are a lot of cool characters and interesting concepts in the story, I particularly like how the main heroines eventually have to question the methods of their mentors and continue the main quest by their own agency. But a lot of those characters/concepts are also heavily underutilized, INCLUDING SOME OF THE MAIN CHARACTERS. The fight scenes are hit or miss. So I guess keep your expectations fairly low and you'll have fun.
It also has my perfect and wonderful wife Ruby. Just saying.
Your wife is very beautiful anon, I hope you are happy together. As for RWBY I will probably check it out.
>The real reason to praise anime in this regard is that anime tends to have more impressive camera work in action scenes
That's the thing that's impressive to these people. They are the rejects of Cinemaphile who think that western animation is "bad" because it doesn't cater to their shitty fetishes and degenerate tastes. Their the same people who think jojo looks "bad" because the characters have actual lips and noses and look like they are older than 12.
The POV and the dynamic camera movement in the air shots help immerse you into the scene, emphasize the action and the breakneck pace of the air combat like you're being thrust around alongside them in the air. This is bad because...?
Sorry but
is right. These kinds of anime action sequences are just Michael Bay levels of composition used to hide the bad animation.
I mean, I will give credit that they're doing it because they have to because of money and time restraints, but that doesn't make it good. I just makes it thrifty.
>Michael Bay levels of composition
You keep using this comparison but you're not actually saying what's wrong with the composition or the directing. Does it not accomplish the things I pointed out in my previous post?
>What is wrong with disorienting jump cuts during action sequences
>What is wrong with our models sliding around on the background erratically
>What is wrong with cheap looking CGI effects mixed into our 2d animated fight scene
Watch one of the videos comparing modern action sequences to classic Jackie Chan choreography.
>What is wrong with disorienting jump cuts during action sequences
What jump cuts are there in this clip? You can see almost every attack.
>What is wrong with our models sliding around on the background erratically
Yes, people tend to move erratically when in free fall.
>What is wrong with cheap looking CGI effects mixed into our 2d animated fight scene
You mean the flashes? They look fine here, it's not distracting at all.
Things flying in your face does make for a climactic action piece, helping set it aside from everything else. Camera work is important in shaping a viewer's perception, no matter how you put it. And I don't think anything is particularly wrong with the animation in the clip. It's not super detailed but it gets the job done and conveys everything it needs to convey effectively.
>. It's not super detailed but it gets the job done and conveys everything it needs to convey effectively
"Gets the job done" isn't good enough when compared to one of the most influential animated film series in the world. You can cope by saying it's good enough but I have seen better animation AND better camera movement and that's a fact. You weebs and dweebs think your shit does not smell but everyone with a three digit IQ sees through your non arguments so you might as well drop the act.
Why are you being so hostile? I posted an example of camera work that the West simply does not do, or does rarely, that makes for an exciting climactic moment emphasizing the action. I wouldn't mind if the West did stuff like this more but it refuses to due to either low budget or low effort work ethic.
>Why are you being so hostile?
I don't see you people show up in Steven Universe threads talking about how much the average anime is compared to SU (which is true) but NO you have to show up to a thread talking about generally good examples of western animation and start trying to "enlighten" the anons of Cinemaphile only to play the victim when you get called out.
> I posted an example of camera work that the West simply does not do
Does it need to? Like I said the anime posted are okay but I have seen better both in the west and east. The anime examples aren't some benchmark of what all animation should be and why would you want it all to be like this?
>talking about how much the average anime is compared to SU
*better the average anime is compared to SU.
I noticed a discussion was happening and decided to share my five cents about what makes the anime fights stand out from cartoon fights. Honestly, if SU practiced this kind of camera work more, it could probably get away with cheap animation and would be more beloved.
>Does it need to?
At least some experimentation would be nice. Emphasizing emotional beats in a story with some sort of a visual change is what animation should be all about.
>At least some experimentation would be nice
The problem is when western animation does this none cares. Rise of TMNT's animation was cahrazy with all the camera work and anime like movement in the world but none cared. My point stands, these weebs a) don't know that much about animation especially western b) The anime they bring up usually isn't that good, far from the pinnacle of the animator's craft that weebs think their favorite haremshit/moeshit/shonenshit is.
I'm pretty sure all of /co. praised Rise of TMNT's animation. The autismo e-celeb reviewer Mr Enter even got shit for saying it was bad.
>I'm pretty sure all of /co. praised Rise of TMNT's animation. The autismo e-celeb reviewer Mr Enter even got shit for saying it was bad.
That's nice but that doesn't mean it did well financially especially in a climate where nickelodeon bosses expect every animated series to be the new sponge bob.
>The autismo e-celeb reviewer Mr Enter even got shit for saying it was bad.
Really? When did Enter talk about RTMNT?
>I'm pretty sure all of /co. praised Rise of TMNT's animation.
homie have you even open a RISE thread in your life
Half the people never gave it a fair chance because the artstyle, others didn't think the animation was good because MUH ANIMUH and lastly you have the people that are incapable of detaching it from the rest of the tmnt franchise to enjoy it for what it is
I fricking wish people in here praised the show cause it deserves it
Not that anon but I said it before and I will say it again. Shit flying in your face is NOT the pinnacle of animation because HOW you convey the movement and the detail of the movement matters. It does not take that much to show shit moving fast, the camera work is nice and all but it's just there to make it look better than it actually is. For an example of this done better see the DBS "Brolly movie". In the mean time see GIF related for an example of good animation that isn't tryhard shit.
This is extremely cringe
I'd say it's the anime equivalent of a Michael Bay action sequence but even Bay has a better eye for cinematography
Based.
cringe.
hahaha, never visit this board or Cinemaphile but this is pretty patently true depending on your metrics, and I love all the pants-shitting it summoned. That old Superman cartoon is amazing, I love it, but even your average anime has a dynamism and technical quality that surpasses it. Anime artists are much better at "gesture", as artists call it. The Superman cartoon, I would say, beats anime on charm and attention to detail (again, purely talking about animation), and obviously framerate. As for style, you could go either way. They both have highly developed styles - they're just different (though I wouldn't blame anybody for being sick of the style of most anime, since it became ubiquitous).
>not even posting a 80-90's anime that actually looks good
pathetic
You're probably going to dismiss this as bait, and I won't blame you. But consider the following:
>Solid, clean line work
>Crisp shadow layer
>Animated mostly one twos, with selective use of ones on fast actions or scenes that need to pop
All of these things are still being done in contemporary animation. Not so much in cartoons, though.
I like the part where Lois Lane decides to do a story on the mad scientist so she runs out of the office and flies her private plane into his front yard.
>Is a newspaper reporter
>has a private plane
She is practically the bane of the modern journalist cuck. She has a high enough paying job in that short, she has enough money to have her own plane. Do you see that today with today's journos?
>*writes a top 10 list for buzzfeed about how expecting journalists to work is misogyny*
It was well made
For one thing, when adjusted for inflation, the Superman shorts had a budget of roughly $300K per minute which is three times what they spent to make Watership Down in 1978 or about twice what Mugen Train cost even two years ago.
That cause when the cartoonists made this, it needed to be justified in terms of quality to be shown in theaters
Do you have any idea how expensive this cartoon was and how cut down the budget of modern cartoons are?
Modern cartoons aren't bad because budget
Their bad because no talent or ambition.
There are plenty of talented, ambitious people working in animation now.
It's just the pipeline that's all screwed up.
Very true
And how would talent or ambition change things?
>And how would talent or ambition change things?
You could work within limitations to create master pieces. The mindset that old animations had bigger budgets and nothing else going for them is easily proven wrong.
Because a lot of money and care was put into them while the 80's cartoons are cheap and nasty to sell toys and other junk
I want DC to make an animated movie in the Fleischer Superman universe. Show us what Lex Luthor would look like, bring back the villains like The Mad Scientist, the Mechanical Monsters and the Bulleteers
Because one was made for theaters and was in production longer with a higher budget while the others were made for tv thus having a lower budget?
Like no shit Fleischer's Superman looks better.
Because Fletcher Superman is the iconic adaptation that effected other superman incarnations and even the source material. It's a very high bar that most other superman cartoons can't measure up to because of how great it is.
Still holds up because it's well animated except for the stereotypes
they spent a shit-load of money on it.
back in the day they cared it was like 30s o 40s
Would a superman video game work if it was made with the style of Fletcher cartoon hand drawn sprites and all? Kinda like the cup head of superhero video games?
zoomers would b***h and screech about it being racist just like they did with Cuphead
Anime looks a million times better...
>Oh wow look she's doing a spinny spin and there's things going WOOOSH
Not even good by anime "standards"
>Posts janky shit animation.
Whatever you're trying to prove, it's not working.
>Whatever you're trying to prove, it's not working.
Do you have eyes?
I do. But the scene looks like something out of Looney Toons.
Anime is on a different level, it always have been. That's why it's still popular and that's why the last Superman show is over 20 years old. It's just facts at this point.
>I do. But the scene looks like something out of Looney Toons.
Is that an insult? Alright then let me spell it out for you in a way that should be obvious to everyone. Shit moving fast is not the pinnacle of animator's craft. There's all kinds of animation styles and approaches and yet you prefer animation that shows fast shit moving around and the shit moving is not even detailed or moving in the way that it should it's just fast. Superman by contrast is moving like an actual human being would if he was lifting something heavy, the movement feels very natural. Akira does something similar with it's animation, it's also the best anime film ever made.
>That's why it's still popular and that's why the last Superman show is over 20 years old
Or maybe film has become the medium of choice for adopting comic books and the studios don't really care about animation that much anymore.
>Or maybe film has become the medium of choice for adopting comic books and the studios don't really care about animation that much anymore.
You made me laugh.
Anyway, why can't there be both movie and cartoon adaptions? Also, what recent successful movies have Superman had?
>You made me laugh.
That's my line!
>why can't there be both movie and cartoon adaptions?
That's corporate logic, in truth both exist side by side but films are prioritized because they make more money. In fact WB recently cut the budget for animation because they are not getting enough shekels. Plus they force weird limitations on animation like how Justice League Unlimited could not use Batman villains because the batman movies where being made around that time.
>Also, what recent successful movies have Superman had?
Man of Steel made hundreds of millions and was very successful and so was BVS. You don't have to like it but it's true.
Here's more
These don't look all that different to me. They all use very basic directing without much experimentation.
Batman and Superman should have never left the 1930's and 40's
Post more gifs
Okay.
Looks like fricking shit man.
This entire sequence has been permanently seared into my brain since childhood.
Hawkman, what the frick are you doing?
like tom and jerry and looney toons it was designed for theater it had to look good enough for people to be willing to pay to watch it.
the reason Fleischer Superman is kino is because he clearly evokes the Art Deco image of a strong man in the throes of physical exertion, which funnily enough conveys super strength and struggle far better than any modern interpretation of Superman has since maybe the fricking 90's
These were made to pay in theaters not on TV.
Turns out the kind of film you use to record the drawings also effects its quality. Cheap Filmstock Cheap Looking animation. Then you get what I call the Thundercats Effect where the title sequence doesn't just have more frames of animation, the film quality is objectively better than the one used for the rest of the show's animation.
All comes down to money and time.
Theatrical shorts had far bigger budgets since they were meant to be played in cinemas alongside movies, while TV shows were always cutting corners
It blew my mind as a kid to realize this, that the Fleischer Popeyes, Looney Tunes etc. were fundamentally different from the Hanna-Barbera shorts despite all being on hour-long blocks in CN
In my first week of watching CN I saw the "Popeye Show" was coming up and I had vague memories of a different show, in hindsight with all new animation, not the old shorts which I was exposed to for the first time
f/a/ggots get the rope
Theatrical budget, moron
>all it takes is one anime shitpost to derail the thread
Feeling threatened goysloppers?
Rob Leifield did nothing wrong.
I think most of the 'people' this image depicts were expunged from here long time ago
Tumblr colony gonna tumbl
Do you have ANY fricking idea how much money these people were paid to produce these shorts?
You can't fricking compare old shorts to modern cartoons. These shorts were made to be played in theaters. People had to pay directly every single time they wanted to watch.
Oh man, too bad we don't have animation in the film theaters, a darn shame I say.
It's really not. It's super impressive for the time and a great piece of animation history, but let's not pretend as if it's not also very basic beyond animation itself.
Talent, hard work, and a budget of just under a million dollars per episode.