>The Last Jedi was the best Star Wars film since
Boy, it sure would be funny if you could actually elaborate on WHY you feel this way, instead of just making bait comments. Haha.
Hey Rian, do you know, what a trilogy is? An overarching story? Character themes and challenges? Wouldn't it be nice to flesh out the Star Wars world, a place we haven't seen in a long time? Maybe a quick trip to Coruscant so that we can be invested in the new government! Also Poe and Finn have such a COOL relationship, buddy cop dynamics between different races are FUN.
i need to watch other movies to see exactly how stupid TLJ was? I mean yeah as a comparison maybe, but TLJ was objectively offensive. And if you shill it, you have an agenda to push. Imagine actually putting time into defending one of the worst movies made post 2000AD.
1. Rey has no reason to be a Jedi
2. Rey has no reason to have a conflict with the dark side
3. What reason does the audience have to be invested in Rey, outside of the mystery box bullshit?
4. You could say Rey wants an identity, but why isn't her role in the conflict examined? She never hints at having any desires that align with the Republic, fricking none.
>Rey has no reason to be a Jedi
Do you think if Anakin Skywalker wasn't his father, Luke wouldn't have become a Jedi? Was the familial tie the ONLY thing that mattered?
>Rey has no reason to have a conflict with the dark side
Literally everybody does, the dark side is a reflection of the temptations we all experience in everyday life, just with higher stakes because Jedi have superpowers.
>What reason does the audience have to be invested in Rey?
The same reason people liked Luke? She's a relatable everyman who feels down on her luck and that her life didn't turn out the way she hoped it would, only with a millennial spin in that she's so afraid of the expectations placed upon her she also self-sabotages?
Oh wait you're a prequel autist who thinks Luke's only importance is that he inherited the sacred bloodcells of Space Jesus
>You could say Rey wants an identity, but why isn't her role in the conflict examined? She never hints at having any desires that align with the Republic, fricking none.
At what point did Luke go on a diatribe about the importance of neoliberal democracy in the OT? He joined the Rebellion because the Empire was bad and needed to be stopped.
i need to watch other movies to see exactly how stupid TLJ was? I mean yeah as a comparison maybe, but TLJ was objectively offensive. And if you shill it, you have an agenda to push. Imagine actually putting time into defending one of the worst movies made post 2000AD.
imagine getting mad because you were too dumb to understand a simple scene in a space movie for kids
Rey is garbage. The audience rejected her because she’s a cheap corporate facsimile of Luke.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>selection bias >kylo ren being someone's favorite character means they also hate Rey
Han Solo has always been more popular than Luke, I guess that means Luke sucks and no one likes him
2 years ago
Anonymous
No, he hasn’t
2 years ago
Anonymous
>source: surveymonkey audience
Yeah I wonder how Harrison Ford was able to command almost 10 times the salary for TFA than Mark Hamill and Carrie Fisher were
2 years ago
Anonymous
Frick, you’re stupid
2 years ago
Anonymous
It’s definitely because Han Solo is slightly more popular than Luke and not because Harrison Ford is one of the biggest movie stars of all time
2 years ago
Anonymous
and how did Harrison Ford become such a movie star...?
2 years ago
Anonymous
Indiana Jones
Blade Runner
Star Wars
The Jack Ryan movies
The Fugitive
Working Girl
2 years ago
Anonymous
and all of that owes to Harrison Ford's magnetic charisma as Han Solo. He's the only actor to ever get a career out of Star Wars, because Han Solo was that big of a deal.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Indiana Jones is really what made him superstar
2 years ago
Anonymous
Indiana fricking Jones moron
2 years ago
Anonymous
Raiders of the Lost Ark was a huge hit but it wasn't the transcendent, cultural milestone the original Star Wars was, though I guess it's responsible for proving Harrison Ford was leading man material
Kylo's message of let old things die was unironically what we need. Stories need to have a beginning, middle and end. A story without a conclusion is meandering and pointless. Unfortunately he flushed it all down the fricking toilet with the end of the movie/I am not the last jedi/the rebellion is reborn today.
Disney gave him the okay to do what he wanted and he did. They only have themselves to blame for making him do the middle movie instead the first or last one. Either he could have set the tone for the whole sequel trilogy or been forced to end what someone else would set up. It was the worst decision to have him only do the middle one.
Kathleen Kennedy is the one who demanded that Luke Skywalker be degraded and humiliated and have all of his accomplishments stripped from him. That was literally HER idea. Rian was hired to make that a reality. Rain was merely the hired hitman, but Kathleen was the murderer
At this point they are going to let her run out her contract. She may be mediocre on creative, and not very aware of human history, but she is a competent Producer with a track record and she has entrenched herself in the modern faux-woke corporate marketing narrative.
Ultimately she should have come in with the goal of honoring the core iconic characters with one more epic trilogy that wraps up this family’s story in a grand satisfying fashion. And then with that credibility that she earned from that epic Trilogy- she could have spent it on a wide variety of cool projects set all over the SW Galaxy. And the fan base would have been with her the entire time. Instead she went with the whole humiliate, degrade, and destroy schlock, and drove away 50-60% of the fan base.
Her contract runs out in 2024. By then she’ll be 72-73, and been in charge of Lucasfilm for 12 years. I think that’s a good time to call it a career. She’s had a phenomenal career as a Producer- one of the very best ever.
Her problem was that she was never a “creative” and thus had no real business making creative decisions for such an epic and layered and diverse franchise like Star Wars. Her input into the ST I s going to haunt her name and rep for a long, long time.
2 years ago
Anonymous
the only reason she's trusted cause she's Spielberg's underling but she never really contributed anything real positive in a brainstorm session.
2 years ago
Anonymous
She’s extremely competent and well liked. Nobody really has anything bad to say about her.
But her decisions on how to treat Han, Leia, Lando, and especially Luke are going to continue to be a negative checkmark against her for the years to come. It’s put the entire Disney Timeline in peril as many fans have given up on it and don’t even consider it canon anymore. It’s entire credibility as a project is still in doubt as there are very few people who actually believe in it and accept it as a viable timeline/ universe.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>how to treat Han, Leia, Lando, and especially Luke
Their hands were tied for a lot of these characters. Harrison Ford refused to come back for more than one film and wouldn't do it unless they agreed to kill him off, Abrams and Kasdan made the decision to isolate Luke so the series could focus on the new characters, and Carrie Fisher fricking died mid-trilogy. Lando is a tough character to include, because he's not important enough that he *has* to be there but he's a major supporting character that you need to write actual material for.
I also don't think it's an inherent flaw that the characters faced adversity in middle age, it's not le writing bad xD that you didn't get your hamfisted applause cameo reunion tour.
2 years ago
Anonymous
This is the sort of brainlet response that’s common from a corporate shill. There isn’t a strict binary between degrading them as characters and clap clap cameo time. There are thousands of ways to utilize them in compelling roles that don’t involve remaking (ahem..”Soft rebooting”) the OT narrative all over again.
Every character needs to face adversity or there is no real reason to have them on screen (looking at you, Rey). Nobody, literally fricking nobody, is arguing that the OT characters shouldn’t face adversity or pass the torch. But it could have been done in a way to preserve their legacy and the basic achievements of the Original 6 films. Most people would have been fine with the Big 3 getting smaller roles in the ST so long as their dignity was still in place.
But trashing the New Republic and the New Jedi Order all over again was a cheap reductive corporate facsimile of a better story already told in the OT.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>But it could have been done in a way to preserve their legacy and the basic achievements of the Original 6 films. Most people would have been fine with the Big 3 getting smaller roles in the ST so long as their dignity was still in place. >But trashing the New Republic and the New Jedi Order all over again was a cheap reductive corporate facsimile of a better story already told in the OT.
Well, I guess I just don't agree that the sequels made the OT heroes "lose their dignity", or whatever, or that the conflict in the ST resembles that of the OT. I'm sure the starting point Disney was working from was "how do we make something that's recognizably Star Wars after the prequels were so weird and alienating to so many people", but I felt the text and thematic intentions of at least the first two films adequately justified how things got to where they were. Life does not owe you a happy ending, and just because the heroes won when they were 20 doesn't mean that things will be sunshine and rainbows forever. Democratic backsliding is something that happens in real life all the fricking time and complacency leads to a resurgence of evil. The West pretty handily "won" the Cold War, yet 30 years later we're seeing a resurgent Russia engage in military aggression on a scale not seen in Europe since World War II. On this very board, you will see a ton of people argue that Hitler did nothing wrong and that Fascism is great, and would totally create their own Nazi LARP if they had access to the same resources as the First Order.
Life isn't about achieving some sort of perfect, immaculate goal that's preserved forever in carbonite, it's doing the best you can with the time you have and then trying to leave something good behind for the generation that follows you.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>or that the conflict in the ST resembles that of the OT.
Holy. Fricking. Shit.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Just dropping by this thread to let you know, you appear to be a moron.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>no argument
BUT IT HURTS MY FEEFEES THAT LUKE DIDN'T GET HIS EPIC NEW JEDI ORDER LIKE IN THE EU NOOOOOOOOOOOOO
2 years ago
Anonymous
Frick the EU. But Luke getting his epic Jedi Order was literally in George Lucas’s Sequel Trilogy and therefore true canon
2 years ago
Anonymous
>The West pretty handily "won" the Cold War, yet 30 years later we're seeing a resurgent Russia engage in military aggression on a scale not seen in Europe since World War II.
You’re profoundly unintelligent
2 years ago
Anonymous
can you please explain the alleged holes in my argument then? Should be easy for a genius like you
2 years ago
Anonymous
You stupid fricking corporate media consumer. Russia is a broken, aging, dysfunctional, dying civilization. Their military is pathetic. Russia engaged in this action because it views Ukraine and the Western expansion there as an existential threat. And they are right. It is absolutely an existential threat. Star Wars doesn’t deal in this level of layered complexity (although Star Trek did in the Undiscovered Country), and neither apparently do you.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>Russia is a broken, aging, dysfunctional, dying civilization. Their military is pathetic.
Sure, they're not ultra-competent the way the First Order is in Star Wars, but both Putin's Russia and the First Order are revanchist authoritarian nations lashing out because they're bitter over a loss in a conflict from decades ago. This happens throughout history all the time.
I'm not really interested in powerlevel wanking, if you think the sequels are bad because they didn't explain Snoke's tax policy and how he funded his fleet you're beyond saving
>Russia engaged in this action because it views Ukraine and the Western expansion there as an existential threat >NOOOOOOO YOU CAN'T JUST VOLUNTARILY AGREE TO JOIN A DEFENSE PACT WITH THE WEST, YOU *HAVE* TO LEAVE YOURSELF VULNERABLE TO MOTHER RUSSIA'S EXPANSIONIST AMBITIONS THAT IT'S BEEN PURSUING FOR DECADES NOOOO
Remember when Putin staged a falseflag terrorist attack so he had an excuse to bomb Chechnya back to the stone age? lmao.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>Remember when Putin staged a falseflag terrorist attack so he had an excuse to bomb Chechnya back to the stone age? lmao.
Remember when America staged the Gulf of Tonkin to justify the War in Vietnam that killed millions and bombed people back to the Stone Age? LMAO
2 years ago
Anonymous
At least a lot of Americans were outraged over Vietnam, Russians fricking LOVE that Putin is attempting to commit genocide in the Ukraine all because he's bitter Russia isn't an Empire anymore
2 years ago
Anonymous
you are silly
2 years ago
Anonymous
>At least a lot of Americans were outraged over Vietnam
They were so outraged, that the war lasted over a decade. Despite people living in a supposedly democratic country, and men being drafted and all.
You are comparing a young active war in development with a long concluded long war in retrospect, anyway.
2 years ago
Anonymous
The First Order wasn’t created as an interesting “what if” abstraction on the final stand of a defeated foe, or was meant in any way as an intriguing allegory to historical political rivals.
The First Order was created so that a corporation could give you the simplest, most reductive and (from their perspective) safe product as humanly possible.
Stop justifying corporate crap
2 years ago
Anonymous
Again, I'm sure Disney's starting point was "people thought the prequels were weird and alienating, what is recognizably Star Wars so we can get those people back on board" but I felt that TFA and TLJ adequately justified the First Order as a faction - all of their officers are young and babyfaced, they're all Empire LARPers, Hux is a 28 year old who looks like he found his grandpa's SS uniform and is delivering speeches to his enslaved audience about how the Republic is weak and disordered. TFA as a whole is about how the galaxy is in a perpetual state of arrested development because no one was able to get over the Galactic Civil War, much as the OT casts such a large shadow over the rest of the franchise even to this day.
A lot of fanboys are just butthurt that the Rebels blowing up a few Death Stars wasn't an effective solution for long-term peace in the Galaxy.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Jesus Christ, you don’t get it. You just don’t fricking get it.
This story was told. It was done. The Emperor was killed, the Empire fell. Leia brings back the New Republic, Luke brings back the Jedi Order. If you want to make Rey and Finn movies (LOL - have at it, nobody gives a frick about those characters but knock yourself out). Set it 500 years, or 5000 years into the future. Let these characters stand on their own (LOL). Let them face new and interesting villains and scenarios.
But just remaking the OT with the soulless affirmative action brigade was not what the fans were looking for. It was a pointless corporate faux-Trilogy that added nothing of value to the Saga.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Ok bud, I'm sorry that engaging with Star Wars for you is just like taking your Soma and you use it as a nice little hugbox that tells you that you're the biggest, toughest kid on the playground and nothing bad will ever happen to you in life, and you feel that it's owed that Luke and Han and Leia lived nice, comfortable lives with minimal adversity because they blew up a Death Star when they were 25
And it's not even valid to say "the story was done", because Lucas opened that door back up when he wrote treatments for a sequel trilogy and then sold it to Disney. If he was SO committed to the prequels' retconning of RotJ as a final victory - he wouldn't have sold Lucasfilm at all.
That could have great if that's what Disney actually did. Have the New Republic be completely caught off guard by the imperial remnant and their new charismatic leader that is turning more and more systems to his cause.
Instead, what we got was Rebels 2.0 vs Empire 2.0.
It was all forced just so Disney could spoon feed the most safe content imaginable to the masses and fool them into thinking they understood star wars.
I mean, that's basically what DID happen, JJ just cut a lot of political exposition scenes from TFA because 99% of people don't give a shit about in-universe lore autism, especially after the prequels' nonsensical politics. He left that shit to the ancillary materials where people who want to write wiki articles about the New Republic Senate can read about it all they want
2 years ago
Anonymous
Yes, he left it to ancillary materials that most of the general audience, and even critics, won't bother reading. It's entirely for hardcore lore nerds, who were one of the only people pissed off at TFA being a rehash. So essentially no one was going to read it.
JJ is a hack too, even if he tried to include nuance in his movie, it would be shit because his entire fricking shtick is style over substance and "muh mystery box"
2 years ago
Anonymous
You keep coming up with more and more elaborately dumb strawmen. It’s almost comical if it wasn’t so sad.
>Soma, Hugbox
Jesus Christ. The Empire lost in the ST and the cheap tacky clone Emperor lost again. That’s the point. Those movies TOLD THE EXACT SAME STORY as the OT. They weren’t brave. They didn’t end with Snoke as Supreme Chancellor of the New Republic. The ended the same fricking way as the OT did. Meaning the entire exercise, the whole Corporate faux-Trilogy was uselessly redundant and designed to be as safe as humanly possible by corporate algorithms.
The mere fact that you defend the ST as bold and those who dislike it’s ceaselessly reductive nature as “needing a hugbox” is revelatory about your functioning IQ
2 years ago
Anonymous
>Jesus Christ. The Empire lost in the ST and the cheap tacky clone Emperor lost again. That’s the point. Those movies TOLD THE EXACT SAME STORY as the OT. They weren’t brave. They didn’t end with Snoke as Supreme Chancellor of the New Republic. The ended the same fricking way as the OT did. Meaning the entire exercise, the whole Corporate faux-Trilogy was uselessly redundant and designed to be as safe as humanly possible by corporate algorithms.
Yeah, Rise of Skywalker is bad, you're moving the goalposts.
2 years ago
Anonymous
The entire Trilogy was bad, and I’ve been consistent on that point.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>The entire Trilogy was bad
Not him, but this argument is often used to downplay how atrocious TLJ was.
Using the classic food analogy:
TFA >order a hamburger, get a cheap big-mac knockoff that looks nice but tastes bland and has a weird aftertaste
TLJ >order a hamburger, get the waiter hitting you in the face with a shovel and then shitting on your concussed face
TROS >order a milkshake, get a random assortment of ingredients like spinach, chocolate and pizza all blended together in a weird concoction that's pretty inedible but is kind of interesting as something to genuinely be served
2 years ago
Anonymous
To be fair, a lot of why the trilogy is bad was because Rian and JJ had to follow up on a big load of nothing that the other one set up.
In one case we got TFA's mystery boxes with no resolution planned for any of them and TLJ leaving nothing to follow up except "Rey has to kick Kylo's ass for the third time"
2 years ago
Anonymous
Shit argument. Any hack could easily fill the mystery boxes. Its sequel would likely never be a masterpiece, but it could've been damn solid.
Saying "lol, it's fricking nothing and you're dumb for wondering" to every mystery is appalling story telling. Like even Uwe Boll was never that horrendous
2 years ago
Anonymous
Every answer to the mystery boxes presented in TLJ has a meaningful characterization, thematic, or dramatic purpose in the story, you're just a moron who got emotionally invested in theorizing that Snoke was secretly Darth Icky or something
2 years ago
Anonymous
lol make up your fricking mind >There was nothing Rian could do! It's not his fault that the story was so fricking aids after what JJ left him! >"well actually any competent writer could've easily written an entertaining follow up" >... shut up you're just mad that TLJ was well-written and didn't do what you expected!
For the record, TLJ is the single worst blockbuster I've ever seen. Far below shit like Independence Day 2 and Taken 3
2 years ago
Anonymous
>There was nothing Rian could do! It's not his fault that the story was so fricking aids after what JJ left him! >"well actually any competent writer could've easily written an entertaining follow up"
I think you're confusing me with someone else...?
>Far below shit like Independence Day 2 and Taken 3
Because your engagement with TLJ is that it hurt your feefees that Luke was sad and you completely stopped engaging with the film after that
2 years ago
Anonymous
And he keeps on projecting….
2 years ago
Anonymous
You literally don't even know what projecting means - I'm literally here defending TLJ, clearly I'm not projecting my own nonexistent hatred of the movie onto you
did you even finish high school?
2 years ago
Anonymous
>Projecting >1. Taking your own anecdotal experiences or personal feelings about a matter, and assuming that they also apply to someone else in the same way. >See also: strawman arguments
2 years ago
Anonymous
>I'm literally here defending TLJ
whata fricking moron.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>Projecting >attributing your own issues and insecurities on someone else
And this is exactly what you’re doing in this thread. Non. Fricking. Stop.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>I think you're confusing me with someone else...?
You mean the person I was replying to who said that? Woah, I wonder why I would assume that? Fricking idiot
2 years ago
Anonymous
The point is that the Corporate Trilogy was utterly pointless. It was the basic equivalent of taking a huge jigsaw puzzle that was completed and then messing it all up again and resolving it again the same exact way. And then when we ask why the frick did that just all happen we’re told we need “hug boxes” or that we’re “Hitler.”
I think the fragility of corporate shills like Jason Ward here are the most telling part. They project all these weird terms and narratives onto people for merely disliking an unnecessary corporate trilogy. It would be sad if it wasn’t so weird
2 years ago
Anonymous
>And it's not even valid to say "the story was done", because Lucas opened that door back up when he wrote treatments for a sequel trilogy and then sold it to Disney
But Lucas’s Sequels ended with Luke alive and as Grandmaster of a fully reformed Jedi Order. And Leia alive as Chancellor of the New Republic. That was literally entirely in line with the main gist of the Original 6 films. Also, Palpatine was dead.
It’s Kathleen Kennedy who decided to strip those accomplishments from Leia and Luke and give them to her godawful corporate characters. And it’s Kathleen Kennedy who will carry the burden of that decision to her grave
2 years ago
Anonymous
Anon...since you're obsessed with real world analogies, I'll explain it to you.
Imagine after the Allies BTFO the Nazis in 1945, and that only 30 years later, the Nazis rose again more powerful than ever from goddamn Argentina and immediatley destroyed the entirety of Washington D.C and killed. Every. Single. Member. Of congress without anyone knowing what would happen.
That's how moronic the conflict in the ST is.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>wtf the Kaiserreich was destroyed, their armies permanently dismantled, and their economy is in ruins >but not even 20 years later there's a THIRD Reich and Germany is stronger than ever before and easily conquered almost the entirety of mainland Europe? >WRITING BAD
2 years ago
Anonymous
That could have great if that's what Disney actually did. Have the New Republic be completely caught off guard by the imperial remnant and their new charismatic leader that is turning more and more systems to his cause.
Instead, what we got was Rebels 2.0 vs Empire 2.0.
It was all forced just so Disney could spoon feed the most safe content imaginable to the masses and fool them into thinking they understood star wars.
2 years ago
Anonymous
At least the German Empire and the Third Reich were aesthetically different.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Bad analogy because the First Order is supposed to be a post-ODESSA Neo-Nazi regime
2 years ago
Anonymous
>I'm sure the starting point Disney was working from was "how do we make something that's recognizably Star Wars after the prequels were so weird and alienating to so many people"
maybe they should have just let people make a film instead of making a product
2 years ago
Anonymous
Just frick off you obvious semen slurping israelite.
2 years ago
Anonymous
TLJ sucked.
2 years ago
Anonymous
I haven't seen it but it's made by disney and written by a "council of equal writers" aka anodyne democratic accord - aka dogshit so it probably sucks.
2 years ago
Anonymous
So what the frick are you attacking that guy for?
2 years ago
Anonymous
If you're not the same person why did you even interject?
2 years ago
Anonymous
>Lando is a tough character to include, because he's not important enough that he *has* to be there but he's a major supporting character that you need to write actual material for.
Lando's role in RoS was fine. Well, except for how the mysterious masked crossbowman turns out to be him. That was forced.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Rise of Skywalker was the worst movie ever made
2 years ago
Anonymous
Getting an entire army offscreen when Leia failed to do so the previous movie?
2 years ago
Anonymous
>Yes, Han had to lose all his character development, his marriage with Leia and his own son just to force him back into being the lonely scoundrel he was in a New Hope.
>We needed a New Empire, a New Rebel Aliiance, and for Leia to STILL be the head of this alliance well into her seventies because....well she was in a New Hope.
>We needed Luke to be MIA because it wouldn't make sense for a new empire to rise up from the ashes if Luke was present.
All the creative decisions for the og cast were terrible and done just to force them back into a rehash of the og movie.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>Han's character development was his job
Do people REALLY like General Solo that much? I thought everyone agrees that Han sucks in RotJ
2 years ago
Anonymous
Han sucks in RotJ because Harrison Ford was phoning in his entire performance and was acting goofy out of spite for the character.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>Harrison Ford refused to come back for more than one film and wouldn't do it unless they agreed to kill him off
Ironically, he still ended up being by far the best force ghost scene.
2 years ago
Anonymous
I'm sure the only reason Harrison Ford agreed to shoot that scene is because of Carrie's death - JJ probably begged him to do it because Kylo needed some kind of closure with his parents, and it was impossible to do that with Leia because of Carrie's death. That, and I'm sure he got a dump truck of money for a scene they probably shot in a single day.
It's weird how Harrison Ford doesn't much care for Han Solo and loves Indy, yet his performance in the Star Wars sequels is miles better than it was in Crystal Skull
>I'm sure the starting point Disney was working from was "how do we make something that's recognizably Star Wars after the prequels were so weird and alienating to so many people"
maybe they should have just let people make a film instead of making a product
Star Wars fans piss and moan when there's any perceived deviation from what they think Star Wars "is", and I hate to break it to you, but the vast overwhelming majority of films are made with the hope and expectation that the film makes a return on its investment. Do you think George Lucas made the prequels for free? Oh wait I bet you buy into that rumor he donated all of his Disney money lol
For better or worse, after spending $4 billion on the acquisition and another half billion on making and marketing Star Wars' grand return, they were never going to make a divisive arthouse Star Wars movie - they left that to Rian Johnson, and then the fans sperged out so hard Disney is still reeling from it five years later.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>It's weird how Harrison Ford doesn't much care for Han Solo and loves Indy, yet his performance in the Star Wars sequels is miles better than it was in Crystal Skull
Because Indy is the main character while Han is not. It's an ego thing
2 years ago
Anonymous
>Do you think George Lucas made the prequels for free?
obviously not, but he told a story that he wanted to tell, he didn't make the films purely as a commercial exercise
2 years ago
Anonymous
I watched Jurassic World Dominion recently.
As well as being a fun blockbuster that was really entertaining, they reintroduced the original trio without relegating the new cast to the backseat or making them feel redundant. They also had a reunion that was just really nice to see even though Laura Dern kinda sucks as a person.
It's pretty much the exact opposite of how disney blundered these films. And the irony is that it's directed by Trevorrow who was fired from star wars for calling out Rian's film as fricking stupid
2 years ago
Anonymous
Trevorrow was fired because he wrote and directed a movie that sucked ass, so KK lost faith in him.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>they reintroduced the original trio without relegating the new cast to the backseat or making them feel redundant.
If you think the problems with Jurassic Park 3 was that Ellie and Alan broke up and the Spino beat up the Trex, than the dogshit Jurassic World films are exactly what you deserve, lol. And having them GET THE THING TO DO THE THING TO STOP THE BAD GUY isn't actual character work.
>for calling out Rian's film as fricking stupid
You know his script is available online, right? Trevorow was more respectful to TLJ than JJ was with Rise of Skywalker, and he actually tried to present some sort of solution for long-term peace in the galaxy and balance in the Force.
The entire Trilogy was bad, and I’ve been consistent on that point.
Right, but saying "these sequel movies ended the exact same way" is a problem to lay solely at Rise of Skywalker's feet for choosing to punt the ball in the final quarter because Disney was terrified over the reaction to TLJ. The Force Awakens shows a galaxy that backslid into old conflicts because the new generation was afraid of the future, The Last Jedi was about how we can attempt to find meaningful balance between honoring the old ways and moving towards the future, the final movie should have been about the next generation finally learning to stand on its own and the people choosing to rise up and reclaim their freedom - something Trevorrow TRIED to do in his script that was rejected, and then JJ just did RotJ again and hoped no one would notice.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>If you think the problems with Jurassic Park 3 was that Ellie and Alan broke up and the Spino beat up the Trex
Why are you strawmanning so hard? Can you not form a coherent thought without putting words and arguments into other people's mouths?
2 years ago
Anonymous
I just can't imagine that anyone can think Jurassic World Dominion is the gold standard of legacy casting and being "respectful" of the characters unless they're the same type of person who fumes over JP3 because Grant and Ellie broke up.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>I can't imagine anything outside of my seething worldview
Oh, it shows
2 years ago
Anonymous
>The Last Jedi was about how we can attempt to find meaningful balance between honoring the old ways and moving towards the future
Where exactly does that happen? It ends with preaching that the jedi are good, the empire are bad and we need to beat the empire for things to be good again.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>It didn't get into dumb Gray Jedi shit and Kylo Ren is still evil at the end of the movie, therefore there was no moral nuance at all and nothing changes
I seem to recall scenes of Luke criticizing the Jedi as an organization, stating that the Force belongs to life, not institutions, a part where Yoda tells Luke that his obsession with past failures is leading to him dooming the future, that the good and bad parts of history are all equally valuable in assisting the next generation in building a better future, etc.
>Do you think George Lucas made the prequels for free?
obviously not, but he told a story that he wanted to tell, he didn't make the films purely as a commercial exercise
>but he told a story that he wanted to tell, he didn't make the films purely as a commercial exercise
One that was heavily influenced by outside branding and toy sales, as he has always done, unless you think Space Jesus Vader and Boba Fett stormtroopers are organic storytelling devices
2 years ago
Anonymous
>I seem to recall scenes of Luke criticizing the Jedi as an organization, stating that the Force belongs to life, not institutions, a part where Yoda tells Luke that his obsession with past failures is leading to him dooming the future, that the good and bad parts of history are all equally valuable in assisting the next generation in building a better future, etc.
What exactly did that lead to except to the same status quo of the flawed jedi system being good, the empire being bad and needing to blow up the empire to solve all problems?
2 years ago
Anonymous
>flawed jedi system being good
Just because TLJ criticizes the Jedi as an institution doesn't mean Johnson is saying the Jedi shouldn't exist - all of Luke's poopooing about how the Jedi need to end isn't meant to be taken at face value. Rey has all the tools she needs to create a new Jedi free from the baggage of the past, and while those who came before her will serve as inspiration, she's done seeking external validation and doesn't need to be totally beholden to tradition.
>b-b-but LUKE was supposed to do that!
Headcanon, there was no reckoning of the prequel Jedis' failures in the OT because those movies didn't exist yet.
>Empire being bad and needing to blow up the empire to solve all problems?
Yes, Fascism is bad and needs to be destroyed. Is that controversial...? Did you think that Kylo Ren saying he'd bring peace to the galaxy by threatening to sic his fleet of Star Destroyers against them was a valid take?
The Last Jedi shows that Luke's final stand re-ignited the spark of hope within the galaxy, and the next generation of Jedi will rise from the lower rungs of society. Finn's subplot is about how symbols of Resistance will inspire those to rise up against evil. The final movie should have been about the common people, inspired by Luke, finally rising up to reclaim their freedom from the First Order, and Rey finding a new form of balance within the Force leads to a Jedi Order that won't kill itself in another 30 years. That's kind of what Trevorow wanted to do, but his script got thrown out.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Why weren't they inspired by Luke getting two death stars destroyed 30 years before?
2 years ago
Anonymous
>Just because TLJ criticizes the Jedi as an institution doesn't mean Johnson is saying the Jedi shouldn't exist - all of Luke's poopooing about how the Jedi need to end isn't meant to be taken at face value. Rey has all the tools she needs to create a new Jedi free from the baggage of the past, and while those who came before her will serve as inspiration, she's done seeking external validation and doesn't need to be totally beholden to tradition.
Amazing. Everything you wrote was bantha shit.
2 years ago
Anonymous
If I were some random space farmer I'd be more inspired by Poe destroying Starkiller base than by force ghost Luke helping 12 people escape and then dying in a battle that happens like a few days after Starkiller base is destroyed.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>Rey has all the tools she needs to create a new Jedi free from the baggage of the past, and while those who came before her will serve as inspiration, she's done seeking external validation and doesn't need to be totally beholden to tradition.
So, six hours after being an illiterate homeless girl who knew very little about galactic history she’s going to revive the most important and complex institution in galactic history??? What the frick is wrong with you?
>she’s done seeking external validation
After a day with other people? One day? Are you mentally handicapped?
Luke was twice as powerful as Rey and MANY times more experienced and even he spent 10-15 years traveling the galaxy, studying, gathering artifacts, before he felt he was ready to rebuild the order. And even that probably wasn’t enough time.
Rey had known about the force for a day or two AND SHES GOT EVERYTHING SHE NEEDS TO BUILD THE JEDI ORDER!?!??,??!!
Hey guise! I went to two classes this week at Harvard and I have everything I need to build my own Ivy League University!!!
Go frick yourself.
2 years ago
Anonymous
I've been amused watching this discussion from the sidelines as you argue with an imbecile. Was it worth it?
2 years ago
Anonymous
No. But I like dominating idiots. Also, this person is clearly a chick
2 years ago
Anonymous
the full extent of Luke's training was a few hours in Official Jedi Training Remote™ and jogging around in a swamp.
>Rey had known about the force for a day or two
She had only just recently received confirmation that all this stuff was real, but she knew more about the Force than Luke did at the beginning of his journey. Rey knew what a Jedi was, knew the basics of what "The Force" was, and she knew the basic story of Luke Skywalker. Luke had no idea what a Jedi was before Obiwan told him.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Luke trained with Yoda for anywhere from 3 months to a Year depending on the source. Time is different on Dagobah.
Luke then trained himself for a year between ESB and RoTJ.
There were 3 years between ANH and ESB in which Luke did some training, and was with Obi Wan for a week or so prior.
After RoTJ Luke trained himself (and Leia and Grogu for short periods of time) for 10 more years before he officially began his Jedi Order.
All told, Luke had 15 years of experience before he thought he was ready to rebuild the order.
Also, just because someone knows what Harvard is when they are 12 doesn’t mean that that’s the same as going to Harvard. I mean how fricking stupid are you?
2 years ago
Anonymous
>Luke trained with Yoda for anywhere from 3 months to a Year depending on the source. Time is different on Dagobah.
Black person if you're going to bring in Pablo Hidalgo retcons from 30 years after the fact there's no point in even trying to discuss the films with you
>Also, just because someone knows what Harvard is when they are 12 doesn’t mean that that’s the same as going to Harvard. I mean how fricking stupid are you?
Well I guess it's a good thing that the Force is a magic power based on eastern mysticism that's fueled by belief and not an academic science like theoretical physics
2 years ago
Anonymous
> it’s magic so anything goes
Actual fricking moron
2 years ago
Anonymous
>I don't believe it >THAT is why you fail
Yeah the real point of that scene was Yoda telling Luke he hadn't studied the Force for long enough, he was just mocking him for not grinding his experience points enough
2 years ago
Anonymous
>Da Force is magical!!! Weee!!! >Therefore Rey can be a Jedi Master in 10 minutes and bring back the Jedi Order
You’re getting fricking crushed in this thread. Why don’t you go upstairs and tag your Mom in for awhile. You could use the break
2 years ago
Anonymous
>Therefore Rey can be a Jedi Master in 10 minutes and bring back the Jedi Order
I mean, I don't think anyone was suggesting that Rey was going to reform the Jedi order tomorrow or next week
2 years ago
Anonymous
Good. So she’ll wait 30 years and then you and your Mom can go to a Matinee to see a walled up bogged down 60 year old Rey and her black and gay Jedi Order.
Make sure to go multiple times! Star Wars is going to need the support for those films
2 years ago
Anonymous
the difference is that I won't be having an emotional breakdown over it and saying the israelites destroyed my childhood
2 years ago
Anonymous
I’ve never said anything about israelites in my entire life.
Also, I’m looking forward to seeing Rey as an old broken failure who failed at everything and there being an OP handsome white man who is perfect at everything and solves every problem in 5 hours flat and brings back the bestest Jedi Order EVER!
But again, I’m sure it will be a black homosexual
2 years ago
Anonymous
Rey defined 0 people’s childhoods. She’s one of 476 patronizingly overpowered females designed by corporations to get more sales from that demographic
Even my most liberal female friends see RIGHT THROUGH Rey Palpatine
2 years ago
Anonymous
I'm sure you hang around a lot of little girls you fricking creep
2 years ago
Anonymous
>I don’t think anyone thinks…Rey
That’s right. For the first time you’re right
2 years ago
Anonymous
Yoda is the one who failed. Luke is the one who fixed Yoda’s (many) failures.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Then Luke failed again and Rey has to fix Luke's failures until the next trilogy.
2 years ago
Anonymous
But Luke didn’t fail in George Lucas’s Sequel Trilogy. Episode 9 ends with Luke as Grandmaster.
The same with the Game of Thrones homosexuals. If the corporation (Disney in this case, HBO in GoT's) admits that they fricked it up, they have to admit that their franchise is fricked up. They will never do that, they will pretend it was "controversial" or whatever but they'll never admit their golden goose laid aids-infested eggs.
Behind closed doors is a different story though, these guys cost those corporations so much fricking money, now and in decades to come.
GoT had problems from the get-go, tbh.
Picking a non-finished book with an author that takes a gorillion years to write a page was a bad idea to begin with, but it kept getting worse and worse the more it tried to distance itself from the book
A literal copy of the book is, unironically, the best adaptation you can make. Anything other than that is either garbage or fanfiction.
No one could ever change my mind on this, because its literal truth.
SW got pozzed to death.
I completely agree. George R.R Martin spent over 20 years of his career writing for television before he started Asoiaf and wrote it like a grand soap opera in a fantasy setting.
It was quite literally made for television. The problem is now the industry thinks fantasy in general is great for adapting to television.
>How did he get away with tanking Star Wars?
Disney convinced journalists to make the film a battle in the culture wars, on the same wave-length as shit like gg and the election.
By politicising the film, they guaranteed that people would defend it regardless of quality, much like Ghostbusters 2016. The difference is that star wars is such a strong brand that the film literally couldn't "flop" (relatively, yes, in actuality it would always make a profit, technically).
Therefore, the journalists never had to admit that they were wrong and thus continue to suck Rian's dick at every available opportunity. Honestly, Rian is fricking lucky as shit to have landed in the middle of this situation since 9 times out of 10 it would've ended his career.
TFA was a terrible foundation for a new trilogy, an inferior remake of ANH with unlikable new characters. People allowed the hype and marketing to blind them to how shit it really was, similar to what happened when Phantom Menace came out and people like Kevin Smith raved and cried over how good it was. It took the Last Jedi to make people realise their earlier mistake.
TFA was a mediocre facsimile of a beloved film that milked its nostalgia. Fans gave it a pass for being so because they had been starved of content for so long that such a morsel tasted delicious to them. They expected the next movie to be fully cooked, which is why the backlash was much bigger for TLJ.
The 30-40 years after the OT was the Era of the Big 3, but especially the Era of Luke Skywalker. Given that the entire Star Wars story takes place over 30,000+ years, it should be no big goddamn deal to let Luke (& Leia & Han) have their 30 years in the Sun. But Kathleen came in and burned ALL of that down in a fruitless quest to get you to like her bland New Corporate “Characters” better. It was so tacky and obvious and tryhard that 90% of the fans saw right through it.
Right now Star Wars is just treading water waiting for someone more creative to take the reigns and hopefully reunite the fanbase again
I agree, surprised so many didn't see it from the beginning. It was doomed from the start. However, it's not like those movies only did poorly just because of shaky foundation.
Stop making this thread. He made a bad movie. That's it. What do you mean by "get away" with it? Did you expect that he was going to be thrown in jail for that? His movie bombed, he faced lots of public criticism, there's no more talk of him directing anymore Star Wars projects. That's the price he paid. He didn't "get away" with anything.
>get away
he went back to sucking off his literally who israelite friend in order to make glorified indie films and will never ever be allowed to touch a major franchise again.
how exactly did he 'get away' with anything?
Trannies are so hysterical and self-obsessed that they feel compelled to waste their time in wallowing in a black hole of narcissism, sexual role playing, paranoia, instead of getting the mental help they so desperately need.
???????????
How is last Jedi worse than the other ones? It's all the same exact bullshit.
And what does that post-it even mean? Smoke theory? Who even is this guy.
KYS
jj's only good at setting up interesting things, and even that is hit or miss. The fact that he can never come to a satisfying conclusion though puts him in dumpster tier
>Trannies are so hysterical and self-obsessed that they feel compelled to waste their time in wallowing in a black hole of narcissism, sexual role playing, paranoia, instead of getting the mental help they so desperately need. >no one is reading that >I know this is bait so I'm not going to read all that. Be clever, make better bait. Have a (you) for the effort.
It's something that could have actually worked with something better than a late night misunderstanding and with a better resolution than "I'm sorry, I'm now killing myself, Rey will take care of turning you good in the next movie"
Remember when Kathleen Kennedy throw out George Lucas’s Sequel Outline and betrayed him? Remember when she had the whole story re-written so it revolved around her personal stand-in (Rey) who was the best at everything and solved every problem without training or explanation?
The sequel politics were so bad they went out of their way to make sure not to explain them. Those Disney homosexuals literally thought politics is what made the prequels suck.
>the whole point of the death star is that it's mobile >death star cannon mounted on a planet isn't mobile >oh but that's okay because all the relevant planets in the galaxy are within 5 light minutes of said starkiller and conveniently aligned for easy aiming >they somehow never noticed it being built
>you can carpet bomb in space because gravity is basically magic, I guess
>there's apparently a lot of air resistance in space so you need tons of fuel to keep flying >how many trillions of gallons of gas do you need to tank a starship, anyway? >reactors? what are they?
>you can track ships while they're moving faster than light >what is being tracked, exactly? >lol just don't think about it
>lightspeed ramming
Why did they let people who flunked elementary school science class to write scifi movies?
I have to thank him, because of his god-awful movie I'm literally cured of any attachment to star wars. I feel nothing when Disney butchers some character or lore. Its like I now know Star Wars is over and there will never be good star wars content again.
The Last Jedi was the best Star Wars film since A New Hope.
Anyone who disagrees is a israelite.
No U
>anyone who disagrees with the humiliation and destruction of the classical white male hero protagonist of the franchise is a israelite
Or a israelite puppet : leftists, blacks, asians, trannies...
atheists, secular conservatives
For the love of God, go outside. You are terminally online
It was corporate trash filled with useless characters doing stupid things.
You say that like it's a bad thing.
Well you better rev up those ovens homosexual because you'll be hearing from my lawyer.
>girls good white males bad
>luke is a pedo murderer now btw
>if you don't like this piece of propaganda shit you're a israelite
Holy israelite
>The Last Jedi was the best Star Wars film since
Boy, it sure would be funny if you could actually elaborate on WHY you feel this way, instead of just making bait comments. Haha.
I'll just call you a cum-gargling buttfricking homosexual and leave it at that.
You're the heeb
It still tanked the franchise.
homosexuals like TLJ
No, clearly well cultured people like a movie that half of its plot is caused by a parking violation and by Holdo's terrible communication skills.
Hey Rian, do you know, what a trilogy is? An overarching story? Character themes and challenges? Wouldn't it be nice to flesh out the Star Wars world, a place we haven't seen in a long time? Maybe a quick trip to Coruscant so that we can be invested in the new government! Also Poe and Finn have such a COOL relationship, buddy cop dynamics between different races are FUN.
No? You'll make like Amber and poop on the paper?
Okay man.
>Maybe a quick trip to Coruscant so that we can be invested in the new government!
Didn't it get blown up in the previous movie?
>Didn't it get blown up in the previous movie?
NO, these squalid CHEAP fricks at Disney, KNOW that Coruscant has value, so the capital was SOMEWHERE ELSE.
Coruscant had to REBEL against FIRST ORDER SOLDIERS, WHO ARE SOMEHOW THERE, BECAUSE REASONS
I think JJ wanted to blow up Coruscant but the story group wouldn't let him, prequelgays would have gone ballistic even more than they already did
>the story group
How was there a story group? Every movie was completely disjoined from each other.
At that point they were trying to write the ST as if the prequels never even existed.
Also reminds me, no fleshing out of Rey, none, just weird staring in the distance crap.
> buh, buh, the mirror
go frick yourself.
>Maybe a quick trip to Coruscant so that we can be invested in the new government
No one likes Coruscant, zoomer
>buh, buh, the mirror
>I didn't understand the scene so it doesn't count as characterization
>I didn't understand the scene
>implying there is something to understand about a shit scene in a shit movie
go to bed Rian. your Snoke sucked.
Watch more movies, what is happening with the mirror is not complicated
i need to watch other movies to see exactly how stupid TLJ was? I mean yeah as a comparison maybe, but TLJ was objectively offensive. And if you shill it, you have an agenda to push. Imagine actually putting time into defending one of the worst movies made post 2000AD.
you're trying too hard.
1. Rey has no reason to be a Jedi
2. Rey has no reason to have a conflict with the dark side
3. What reason does the audience have to be invested in Rey, outside of the mystery box bullshit?
4. You could say Rey wants an identity, but why isn't her role in the conflict examined? She never hints at having any desires that align with the Republic, fricking none.
>Rey has no reason to be a Jedi
Do you think if Anakin Skywalker wasn't his father, Luke wouldn't have become a Jedi? Was the familial tie the ONLY thing that mattered?
>Rey has no reason to have a conflict with the dark side
Literally everybody does, the dark side is a reflection of the temptations we all experience in everyday life, just with higher stakes because Jedi have superpowers.
>What reason does the audience have to be invested in Rey?
The same reason people liked Luke? She's a relatable everyman who feels down on her luck and that her life didn't turn out the way she hoped it would, only with a millennial spin in that she's so afraid of the expectations placed upon her she also self-sabotages?
Oh wait you're a prequel autist who thinks Luke's only importance is that he inherited the sacred bloodcells of Space Jesus
>You could say Rey wants an identity, but why isn't her role in the conflict examined? She never hints at having any desires that align with the Republic, fricking none.
At what point did Luke go on a diatribe about the importance of neoliberal democracy in the OT? He joined the Rebellion because the Empire was bad and needed to be stopped.
imagine getting mad because you were too dumb to understand a simple scene in a space movie for kids
>a simple scene
LOL whats there to understand? By that point I was asking for my money back from the box office.
rey sucked so bad it killed the franchise
>She's a relatable everyman
Rey is garbage. The audience rejected her because she’s a cheap corporate facsimile of Luke.
>selection bias
>kylo ren being someone's favorite character means they also hate Rey
Han Solo has always been more popular than Luke, I guess that means Luke sucks and no one likes him
No, he hasn’t
>source: surveymonkey audience
Yeah I wonder how Harrison Ford was able to command almost 10 times the salary for TFA than Mark Hamill and Carrie Fisher were
Frick, you’re stupid
It’s definitely because Han Solo is slightly more popular than Luke and not because Harrison Ford is one of the biggest movie stars of all time
and how did Harrison Ford become such a movie star...?
Indiana Jones
Blade Runner
Star Wars
The Jack Ryan movies
The Fugitive
Working Girl
and all of that owes to Harrison Ford's magnetic charisma as Han Solo. He's the only actor to ever get a career out of Star Wars, because Han Solo was that big of a deal.
Indiana Jones is really what made him superstar
Indiana fricking Jones moron
Raiders of the Lost Ark was a huge hit but it wasn't the transcendent, cultural milestone the original Star Wars was, though I guess it's responsible for proving Harrison Ford was leading man material
Kylo's message of let old things die was unironically what we need. Stories need to have a beginning, middle and end. A story without a conclusion is meandering and pointless. Unfortunately he flushed it all down the fricking toilet with the end of the movie/I am not the last jedi/the rebellion is reborn today.
eat shit
He did what they wanted
Disney gave him the okay to do what he wanted and he did. They only have themselves to blame for making him do the middle movie instead the first or last one. Either he could have set the tone for the whole sequel trilogy or been forced to end what someone else would set up. It was the worst decision to have him only do the middle one.
The real question would be, how did KK got away by letting complete morons having free reigns over one of the most profitable franchise of all time?
Are you kidding?
Kathleen Kennedy is the one who demanded that Luke Skywalker be degraded and humiliated and have all of his accomplishments stripped from him. That was literally HER idea. Rian was hired to make that a reality. Rain was merely the hired hitman, but Kathleen was the murderer
Well, my question still stands, why Disney still let her have power over the franchise after running it to the ground?
At this point they are going to let her run out her contract. She may be mediocre on creative, and not very aware of human history, but she is a competent Producer with a track record and she has entrenched herself in the modern faux-woke corporate marketing narrative.
Ultimately she should have come in with the goal of honoring the core iconic characters with one more epic trilogy that wraps up this family’s story in a grand satisfying fashion. And then with that credibility that she earned from that epic Trilogy- she could have spent it on a wide variety of cool projects set all over the SW Galaxy. And the fan base would have been with her the entire time. Instead she went with the whole humiliate, degrade, and destroy schlock, and drove away 50-60% of the fan base.
Didn't they renew her contract?
Her contract runs out in 2024. By then she’ll be 72-73, and been in charge of Lucasfilm for 12 years. I think that’s a good time to call it a career. She’s had a phenomenal career as a Producer- one of the very best ever.
Her problem was that she was never a “creative” and thus had no real business making creative decisions for such an epic and layered and diverse franchise like Star Wars. Her input into the ST I s going to haunt her name and rep for a long, long time.
the only reason she's trusted cause she's Spielberg's underling but she never really contributed anything real positive in a brainstorm session.
She’s extremely competent and well liked. Nobody really has anything bad to say about her.
But her decisions on how to treat Han, Leia, Lando, and especially Luke are going to continue to be a negative checkmark against her for the years to come. It’s put the entire Disney Timeline in peril as many fans have given up on it and don’t even consider it canon anymore. It’s entire credibility as a project is still in doubt as there are very few people who actually believe in it and accept it as a viable timeline/ universe.
>how to treat Han, Leia, Lando, and especially Luke
Their hands were tied for a lot of these characters. Harrison Ford refused to come back for more than one film and wouldn't do it unless they agreed to kill him off, Abrams and Kasdan made the decision to isolate Luke so the series could focus on the new characters, and Carrie Fisher fricking died mid-trilogy. Lando is a tough character to include, because he's not important enough that he *has* to be there but he's a major supporting character that you need to write actual material for.
I also don't think it's an inherent flaw that the characters faced adversity in middle age, it's not le writing bad xD that you didn't get your hamfisted applause cameo reunion tour.
This is the sort of brainlet response that’s common from a corporate shill. There isn’t a strict binary between degrading them as characters and clap clap cameo time. There are thousands of ways to utilize them in compelling roles that don’t involve remaking (ahem..”Soft rebooting”) the OT narrative all over again.
Every character needs to face adversity or there is no real reason to have them on screen (looking at you, Rey). Nobody, literally fricking nobody, is arguing that the OT characters shouldn’t face adversity or pass the torch. But it could have been done in a way to preserve their legacy and the basic achievements of the Original 6 films. Most people would have been fine with the Big 3 getting smaller roles in the ST so long as their dignity was still in place.
But trashing the New Republic and the New Jedi Order all over again was a cheap reductive corporate facsimile of a better story already told in the OT.
>But it could have been done in a way to preserve their legacy and the basic achievements of the Original 6 films. Most people would have been fine with the Big 3 getting smaller roles in the ST so long as their dignity was still in place.
>But trashing the New Republic and the New Jedi Order all over again was a cheap reductive corporate facsimile of a better story already told in the OT.
Well, I guess I just don't agree that the sequels made the OT heroes "lose their dignity", or whatever, or that the conflict in the ST resembles that of the OT. I'm sure the starting point Disney was working from was "how do we make something that's recognizably Star Wars after the prequels were so weird and alienating to so many people", but I felt the text and thematic intentions of at least the first two films adequately justified how things got to where they were. Life does not owe you a happy ending, and just because the heroes won when they were 20 doesn't mean that things will be sunshine and rainbows forever. Democratic backsliding is something that happens in real life all the fricking time and complacency leads to a resurgence of evil. The West pretty handily "won" the Cold War, yet 30 years later we're seeing a resurgent Russia engage in military aggression on a scale not seen in Europe since World War II. On this very board, you will see a ton of people argue that Hitler did nothing wrong and that Fascism is great, and would totally create their own Nazi LARP if they had access to the same resources as the First Order.
Life isn't about achieving some sort of perfect, immaculate goal that's preserved forever in carbonite, it's doing the best you can with the time you have and then trying to leave something good behind for the generation that follows you.
>or that the conflict in the ST resembles that of the OT.
Holy. Fricking. Shit.
Just dropping by this thread to let you know, you appear to be a moron.
>no argument
BUT IT HURTS MY FEEFEES THAT LUKE DIDN'T GET HIS EPIC NEW JEDI ORDER LIKE IN THE EU NOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Frick the EU. But Luke getting his epic Jedi Order was literally in George Lucas’s Sequel Trilogy and therefore true canon
>The West pretty handily "won" the Cold War, yet 30 years later we're seeing a resurgent Russia engage in military aggression on a scale not seen in Europe since World War II.
You’re profoundly unintelligent
can you please explain the alleged holes in my argument then? Should be easy for a genius like you
You stupid fricking corporate media consumer. Russia is a broken, aging, dysfunctional, dying civilization. Their military is pathetic. Russia engaged in this action because it views Ukraine and the Western expansion there as an existential threat. And they are right. It is absolutely an existential threat. Star Wars doesn’t deal in this level of layered complexity (although Star Trek did in the Undiscovered Country), and neither apparently do you.
>Russia is a broken, aging, dysfunctional, dying civilization. Their military is pathetic.
Sure, they're not ultra-competent the way the First Order is in Star Wars, but both Putin's Russia and the First Order are revanchist authoritarian nations lashing out because they're bitter over a loss in a conflict from decades ago. This happens throughout history all the time.
I'm not really interested in powerlevel wanking, if you think the sequels are bad because they didn't explain Snoke's tax policy and how he funded his fleet you're beyond saving
>Russia engaged in this action because it views Ukraine and the Western expansion there as an existential threat
>NOOOOOOO YOU CAN'T JUST VOLUNTARILY AGREE TO JOIN A DEFENSE PACT WITH THE WEST, YOU *HAVE* TO LEAVE YOURSELF VULNERABLE TO MOTHER RUSSIA'S EXPANSIONIST AMBITIONS THAT IT'S BEEN PURSUING FOR DECADES NOOOO
Remember when Putin staged a falseflag terrorist attack so he had an excuse to bomb Chechnya back to the stone age? lmao.
>Remember when Putin staged a falseflag terrorist attack so he had an excuse to bomb Chechnya back to the stone age? lmao.
Remember when America staged the Gulf of Tonkin to justify the War in Vietnam that killed millions and bombed people back to the Stone Age? LMAO
At least a lot of Americans were outraged over Vietnam, Russians fricking LOVE that Putin is attempting to commit genocide in the Ukraine all because he's bitter Russia isn't an Empire anymore
you are silly
>At least a lot of Americans were outraged over Vietnam
They were so outraged, that the war lasted over a decade. Despite people living in a supposedly democratic country, and men being drafted and all.
You are comparing a young active war in development with a long concluded long war in retrospect, anyway.
The First Order wasn’t created as an interesting “what if” abstraction on the final stand of a defeated foe, or was meant in any way as an intriguing allegory to historical political rivals.
The First Order was created so that a corporation could give you the simplest, most reductive and (from their perspective) safe product as humanly possible.
Stop justifying corporate crap
Again, I'm sure Disney's starting point was "people thought the prequels were weird and alienating, what is recognizably Star Wars so we can get those people back on board" but I felt that TFA and TLJ adequately justified the First Order as a faction - all of their officers are young and babyfaced, they're all Empire LARPers, Hux is a 28 year old who looks like he found his grandpa's SS uniform and is delivering speeches to his enslaved audience about how the Republic is weak and disordered. TFA as a whole is about how the galaxy is in a perpetual state of arrested development because no one was able to get over the Galactic Civil War, much as the OT casts such a large shadow over the rest of the franchise even to this day.
A lot of fanboys are just butthurt that the Rebels blowing up a few Death Stars wasn't an effective solution for long-term peace in the Galaxy.
Jesus Christ, you don’t get it. You just don’t fricking get it.
This story was told. It was done. The Emperor was killed, the Empire fell. Leia brings back the New Republic, Luke brings back the Jedi Order. If you want to make Rey and Finn movies (LOL - have at it, nobody gives a frick about those characters but knock yourself out). Set it 500 years, or 5000 years into the future. Let these characters stand on their own (LOL). Let them face new and interesting villains and scenarios.
But just remaking the OT with the soulless affirmative action brigade was not what the fans were looking for. It was a pointless corporate faux-Trilogy that added nothing of value to the Saga.
Ok bud, I'm sorry that engaging with Star Wars for you is just like taking your Soma and you use it as a nice little hugbox that tells you that you're the biggest, toughest kid on the playground and nothing bad will ever happen to you in life, and you feel that it's owed that Luke and Han and Leia lived nice, comfortable lives with minimal adversity because they blew up a Death Star when they were 25
And it's not even valid to say "the story was done", because Lucas opened that door back up when he wrote treatments for a sequel trilogy and then sold it to Disney. If he was SO committed to the prequels' retconning of RotJ as a final victory - he wouldn't have sold Lucasfilm at all.
I mean, that's basically what DID happen, JJ just cut a lot of political exposition scenes from TFA because 99% of people don't give a shit about in-universe lore autism, especially after the prequels' nonsensical politics. He left that shit to the ancillary materials where people who want to write wiki articles about the New Republic Senate can read about it all they want
Yes, he left it to ancillary materials that most of the general audience, and even critics, won't bother reading. It's entirely for hardcore lore nerds, who were one of the only people pissed off at TFA being a rehash. So essentially no one was going to read it.
JJ is a hack too, even if he tried to include nuance in his movie, it would be shit because his entire fricking shtick is style over substance and "muh mystery box"
You keep coming up with more and more elaborately dumb strawmen. It’s almost comical if it wasn’t so sad.
>Soma, Hugbox
Jesus Christ. The Empire lost in the ST and the cheap tacky clone Emperor lost again. That’s the point. Those movies TOLD THE EXACT SAME STORY as the OT. They weren’t brave. They didn’t end with Snoke as Supreme Chancellor of the New Republic. The ended the same fricking way as the OT did. Meaning the entire exercise, the whole Corporate faux-Trilogy was uselessly redundant and designed to be as safe as humanly possible by corporate algorithms.
The mere fact that you defend the ST as bold and those who dislike it’s ceaselessly reductive nature as “needing a hugbox” is revelatory about your functioning IQ
>Jesus Christ. The Empire lost in the ST and the cheap tacky clone Emperor lost again. That’s the point. Those movies TOLD THE EXACT SAME STORY as the OT. They weren’t brave. They didn’t end with Snoke as Supreme Chancellor of the New Republic. The ended the same fricking way as the OT did. Meaning the entire exercise, the whole Corporate faux-Trilogy was uselessly redundant and designed to be as safe as humanly possible by corporate algorithms.
Yeah, Rise of Skywalker is bad, you're moving the goalposts.
The entire Trilogy was bad, and I’ve been consistent on that point.
>The entire Trilogy was bad
Not him, but this argument is often used to downplay how atrocious TLJ was.
Using the classic food analogy:
TFA
>order a hamburger, get a cheap big-mac knockoff that looks nice but tastes bland and has a weird aftertaste
TLJ
>order a hamburger, get the waiter hitting you in the face with a shovel and then shitting on your concussed face
TROS
>order a milkshake, get a random assortment of ingredients like spinach, chocolate and pizza all blended together in a weird concoction that's pretty inedible but is kind of interesting as something to genuinely be served
To be fair, a lot of why the trilogy is bad was because Rian and JJ had to follow up on a big load of nothing that the other one set up.
In one case we got TFA's mystery boxes with no resolution planned for any of them and TLJ leaving nothing to follow up except "Rey has to kick Kylo's ass for the third time"
Shit argument. Any hack could easily fill the mystery boxes. Its sequel would likely never be a masterpiece, but it could've been damn solid.
Saying "lol, it's fricking nothing and you're dumb for wondering" to every mystery is appalling story telling. Like even Uwe Boll was never that horrendous
Every answer to the mystery boxes presented in TLJ has a meaningful characterization, thematic, or dramatic purpose in the story, you're just a moron who got emotionally invested in theorizing that Snoke was secretly Darth Icky or something
lol make up your fricking mind
>There was nothing Rian could do! It's not his fault that the story was so fricking aids after what JJ left him!
>"well actually any competent writer could've easily written an entertaining follow up"
>... shut up you're just mad that TLJ was well-written and didn't do what you expected!
For the record, TLJ is the single worst blockbuster I've ever seen. Far below shit like Independence Day 2 and Taken 3
>There was nothing Rian could do! It's not his fault that the story was so fricking aids after what JJ left him!
>"well actually any competent writer could've easily written an entertaining follow up"
I think you're confusing me with someone else...?
>Far below shit like Independence Day 2 and Taken 3
Because your engagement with TLJ is that it hurt your feefees that Luke was sad and you completely stopped engaging with the film after that
And he keeps on projecting….
You literally don't even know what projecting means - I'm literally here defending TLJ, clearly I'm not projecting my own nonexistent hatred of the movie onto you
did you even finish high school?
>Projecting
>1. Taking your own anecdotal experiences or personal feelings about a matter, and assuming that they also apply to someone else in the same way.
>See also: strawman arguments
>I'm literally here defending TLJ
whata fricking moron.
>Projecting
>attributing your own issues and insecurities on someone else
And this is exactly what you’re doing in this thread. Non. Fricking. Stop.
>I think you're confusing me with someone else...?
You mean the person I was replying to who said that? Woah, I wonder why I would assume that? Fricking idiot
The point is that the Corporate Trilogy was utterly pointless. It was the basic equivalent of taking a huge jigsaw puzzle that was completed and then messing it all up again and resolving it again the same exact way. And then when we ask why the frick did that just all happen we’re told we need “hug boxes” or that we’re “Hitler.”
I think the fragility of corporate shills like Jason Ward here are the most telling part. They project all these weird terms and narratives onto people for merely disliking an unnecessary corporate trilogy. It would be sad if it wasn’t so weird
>And it's not even valid to say "the story was done", because Lucas opened that door back up when he wrote treatments for a sequel trilogy and then sold it to Disney
But Lucas’s Sequels ended with Luke alive and as Grandmaster of a fully reformed Jedi Order. And Leia alive as Chancellor of the New Republic. That was literally entirely in line with the main gist of the Original 6 films. Also, Palpatine was dead.
It’s Kathleen Kennedy who decided to strip those accomplishments from Leia and Luke and give them to her godawful corporate characters. And it’s Kathleen Kennedy who will carry the burden of that decision to her grave
Anon...since you're obsessed with real world analogies, I'll explain it to you.
Imagine after the Allies BTFO the Nazis in 1945, and that only 30 years later, the Nazis rose again more powerful than ever from goddamn Argentina and immediatley destroyed the entirety of Washington D.C and killed. Every. Single. Member. Of congress without anyone knowing what would happen.
That's how moronic the conflict in the ST is.
>wtf the Kaiserreich was destroyed, their armies permanently dismantled, and their economy is in ruins
>but not even 20 years later there's a THIRD Reich and Germany is stronger than ever before and easily conquered almost the entirety of mainland Europe?
>WRITING BAD
That could have great if that's what Disney actually did. Have the New Republic be completely caught off guard by the imperial remnant and their new charismatic leader that is turning more and more systems to his cause.
Instead, what we got was Rebels 2.0 vs Empire 2.0.
It was all forced just so Disney could spoon feed the most safe content imaginable to the masses and fool them into thinking they understood star wars.
At least the German Empire and the Third Reich were aesthetically different.
Bad analogy because the First Order is supposed to be a post-ODESSA Neo-Nazi regime
>I'm sure the starting point Disney was working from was "how do we make something that's recognizably Star Wars after the prequels were so weird and alienating to so many people"
maybe they should have just let people make a film instead of making a product
Just frick off you obvious semen slurping israelite.
TLJ sucked.
I haven't seen it but it's made by disney and written by a "council of equal writers" aka anodyne democratic accord - aka dogshit so it probably sucks.
So what the frick are you attacking that guy for?
If you're not the same person why did you even interject?
>Lando is a tough character to include, because he's not important enough that he *has* to be there but he's a major supporting character that you need to write actual material for.
Lando's role in RoS was fine. Well, except for how the mysterious masked crossbowman turns out to be him. That was forced.
Rise of Skywalker was the worst movie ever made
Getting an entire army offscreen when Leia failed to do so the previous movie?
>Yes, Han had to lose all his character development, his marriage with Leia and his own son just to force him back into being the lonely scoundrel he was in a New Hope.
>We needed a New Empire, a New Rebel Aliiance, and for Leia to STILL be the head of this alliance well into her seventies because....well she was in a New Hope.
>We needed Luke to be MIA because it wouldn't make sense for a new empire to rise up from the ashes if Luke was present.
All the creative decisions for the og cast were terrible and done just to force them back into a rehash of the og movie.
>Han's character development was his job
Do people REALLY like General Solo that much? I thought everyone agrees that Han sucks in RotJ
Han sucks in RotJ because Harrison Ford was phoning in his entire performance and was acting goofy out of spite for the character.
>Harrison Ford refused to come back for more than one film and wouldn't do it unless they agreed to kill him off
Ironically, he still ended up being by far the best force ghost scene.
I'm sure the only reason Harrison Ford agreed to shoot that scene is because of Carrie's death - JJ probably begged him to do it because Kylo needed some kind of closure with his parents, and it was impossible to do that with Leia because of Carrie's death. That, and I'm sure he got a dump truck of money for a scene they probably shot in a single day.
It's weird how Harrison Ford doesn't much care for Han Solo and loves Indy, yet his performance in the Star Wars sequels is miles better than it was in Crystal Skull
Star Wars fans piss and moan when there's any perceived deviation from what they think Star Wars "is", and I hate to break it to you, but the vast overwhelming majority of films are made with the hope and expectation that the film makes a return on its investment. Do you think George Lucas made the prequels for free? Oh wait I bet you buy into that rumor he donated all of his Disney money lol
For better or worse, after spending $4 billion on the acquisition and another half billion on making and marketing Star Wars' grand return, they were never going to make a divisive arthouse Star Wars movie - they left that to Rian Johnson, and then the fans sperged out so hard Disney is still reeling from it five years later.
>It's weird how Harrison Ford doesn't much care for Han Solo and loves Indy, yet his performance in the Star Wars sequels is miles better than it was in Crystal Skull
Because Indy is the main character while Han is not. It's an ego thing
>Do you think George Lucas made the prequels for free?
obviously not, but he told a story that he wanted to tell, he didn't make the films purely as a commercial exercise
I watched Jurassic World Dominion recently.
As well as being a fun blockbuster that was really entertaining, they reintroduced the original trio without relegating the new cast to the backseat or making them feel redundant. They also had a reunion that was just really nice to see even though Laura Dern kinda sucks as a person.
It's pretty much the exact opposite of how disney blundered these films. And the irony is that it's directed by Trevorrow who was fired from star wars for calling out Rian's film as fricking stupid
Trevorrow was fired because he wrote and directed a movie that sucked ass, so KK lost faith in him.
>they reintroduced the original trio without relegating the new cast to the backseat or making them feel redundant.
If you think the problems with Jurassic Park 3 was that Ellie and Alan broke up and the Spino beat up the Trex, than the dogshit Jurassic World films are exactly what you deserve, lol. And having them GET THE THING TO DO THE THING TO STOP THE BAD GUY isn't actual character work.
>for calling out Rian's film as fricking stupid
You know his script is available online, right? Trevorow was more respectful to TLJ than JJ was with Rise of Skywalker, and he actually tried to present some sort of solution for long-term peace in the galaxy and balance in the Force.
Right, but saying "these sequel movies ended the exact same way" is a problem to lay solely at Rise of Skywalker's feet for choosing to punt the ball in the final quarter because Disney was terrified over the reaction to TLJ. The Force Awakens shows a galaxy that backslid into old conflicts because the new generation was afraid of the future, The Last Jedi was about how we can attempt to find meaningful balance between honoring the old ways and moving towards the future, the final movie should have been about the next generation finally learning to stand on its own and the people choosing to rise up and reclaim their freedom - something Trevorrow TRIED to do in his script that was rejected, and then JJ just did RotJ again and hoped no one would notice.
>If you think the problems with Jurassic Park 3 was that Ellie and Alan broke up and the Spino beat up the Trex
Why are you strawmanning so hard? Can you not form a coherent thought without putting words and arguments into other people's mouths?
I just can't imagine that anyone can think Jurassic World Dominion is the gold standard of legacy casting and being "respectful" of the characters unless they're the same type of person who fumes over JP3 because Grant and Ellie broke up.
>I can't imagine anything outside of my seething worldview
Oh, it shows
>The Last Jedi was about how we can attempt to find meaningful balance between honoring the old ways and moving towards the future
Where exactly does that happen? It ends with preaching that the jedi are good, the empire are bad and we need to beat the empire for things to be good again.
>It didn't get into dumb Gray Jedi shit and Kylo Ren is still evil at the end of the movie, therefore there was no moral nuance at all and nothing changes
I seem to recall scenes of Luke criticizing the Jedi as an organization, stating that the Force belongs to life, not institutions, a part where Yoda tells Luke that his obsession with past failures is leading to him dooming the future, that the good and bad parts of history are all equally valuable in assisting the next generation in building a better future, etc.
>but he told a story that he wanted to tell, he didn't make the films purely as a commercial exercise
One that was heavily influenced by outside branding and toy sales, as he has always done, unless you think Space Jesus Vader and Boba Fett stormtroopers are organic storytelling devices
>I seem to recall scenes of Luke criticizing the Jedi as an organization, stating that the Force belongs to life, not institutions, a part where Yoda tells Luke that his obsession with past failures is leading to him dooming the future, that the good and bad parts of history are all equally valuable in assisting the next generation in building a better future, etc.
What exactly did that lead to except to the same status quo of the flawed jedi system being good, the empire being bad and needing to blow up the empire to solve all problems?
>flawed jedi system being good
Just because TLJ criticizes the Jedi as an institution doesn't mean Johnson is saying the Jedi shouldn't exist - all of Luke's poopooing about how the Jedi need to end isn't meant to be taken at face value. Rey has all the tools she needs to create a new Jedi free from the baggage of the past, and while those who came before her will serve as inspiration, she's done seeking external validation and doesn't need to be totally beholden to tradition.
>b-b-but LUKE was supposed to do that!
Headcanon, there was no reckoning of the prequel Jedis' failures in the OT because those movies didn't exist yet.
>Empire being bad and needing to blow up the empire to solve all problems?
Yes, Fascism is bad and needs to be destroyed. Is that controversial...? Did you think that Kylo Ren saying he'd bring peace to the galaxy by threatening to sic his fleet of Star Destroyers against them was a valid take?
The Last Jedi shows that Luke's final stand re-ignited the spark of hope within the galaxy, and the next generation of Jedi will rise from the lower rungs of society. Finn's subplot is about how symbols of Resistance will inspire those to rise up against evil. The final movie should have been about the common people, inspired by Luke, finally rising up to reclaim their freedom from the First Order, and Rey finding a new form of balance within the Force leads to a Jedi Order that won't kill itself in another 30 years. That's kind of what Trevorow wanted to do, but his script got thrown out.
Why weren't they inspired by Luke getting two death stars destroyed 30 years before?
>Just because TLJ criticizes the Jedi as an institution doesn't mean Johnson is saying the Jedi shouldn't exist - all of Luke's poopooing about how the Jedi need to end isn't meant to be taken at face value. Rey has all the tools she needs to create a new Jedi free from the baggage of the past, and while those who came before her will serve as inspiration, she's done seeking external validation and doesn't need to be totally beholden to tradition.
Amazing. Everything you wrote was bantha shit.
If I were some random space farmer I'd be more inspired by Poe destroying Starkiller base than by force ghost Luke helping 12 people escape and then dying in a battle that happens like a few days after Starkiller base is destroyed.
>Rey has all the tools she needs to create a new Jedi free from the baggage of the past, and while those who came before her will serve as inspiration, she's done seeking external validation and doesn't need to be totally beholden to tradition.
So, six hours after being an illiterate homeless girl who knew very little about galactic history she’s going to revive the most important and complex institution in galactic history??? What the frick is wrong with you?
>she’s done seeking external validation
After a day with other people? One day? Are you mentally handicapped?
Luke was twice as powerful as Rey and MANY times more experienced and even he spent 10-15 years traveling the galaxy, studying, gathering artifacts, before he felt he was ready to rebuild the order. And even that probably wasn’t enough time.
Rey had known about the force for a day or two AND SHES GOT EVERYTHING SHE NEEDS TO BUILD THE JEDI ORDER!?!??,??!!
Hey guise! I went to two classes this week at Harvard and I have everything I need to build my own Ivy League University!!!
Go frick yourself.
I've been amused watching this discussion from the sidelines as you argue with an imbecile. Was it worth it?
No. But I like dominating idiots. Also, this person is clearly a chick
the full extent of Luke's training was a few hours in Official Jedi Training Remote™ and jogging around in a swamp.
>Rey had known about the force for a day or two
She had only just recently received confirmation that all this stuff was real, but she knew more about the Force than Luke did at the beginning of his journey. Rey knew what a Jedi was, knew the basics of what "The Force" was, and she knew the basic story of Luke Skywalker. Luke had no idea what a Jedi was before Obiwan told him.
Luke trained with Yoda for anywhere from 3 months to a Year depending on the source. Time is different on Dagobah.
Luke then trained himself for a year between ESB and RoTJ.
There were 3 years between ANH and ESB in which Luke did some training, and was with Obi Wan for a week or so prior.
After RoTJ Luke trained himself (and Leia and Grogu for short periods of time) for 10 more years before he officially began his Jedi Order.
All told, Luke had 15 years of experience before he thought he was ready to rebuild the order.
Also, just because someone knows what Harvard is when they are 12 doesn’t mean that that’s the same as going to Harvard. I mean how fricking stupid are you?
>Luke trained with Yoda for anywhere from 3 months to a Year depending on the source. Time is different on Dagobah.
Black person if you're going to bring in Pablo Hidalgo retcons from 30 years after the fact there's no point in even trying to discuss the films with you
>Also, just because someone knows what Harvard is when they are 12 doesn’t mean that that’s the same as going to Harvard. I mean how fricking stupid are you?
Well I guess it's a good thing that the Force is a magic power based on eastern mysticism that's fueled by belief and not an academic science like theoretical physics
> it’s magic so anything goes
Actual fricking moron
>I don't believe it
>THAT is why you fail
Yeah the real point of that scene was Yoda telling Luke he hadn't studied the Force for long enough, he was just mocking him for not grinding his experience points enough
>Da Force is magical!!! Weee!!!
>Therefore Rey can be a Jedi Master in 10 minutes and bring back the Jedi Order
You’re getting fricking crushed in this thread. Why don’t you go upstairs and tag your Mom in for awhile. You could use the break
>Therefore Rey can be a Jedi Master in 10 minutes and bring back the Jedi Order
I mean, I don't think anyone was suggesting that Rey was going to reform the Jedi order tomorrow or next week
Good. So she’ll wait 30 years and then you and your Mom can go to a Matinee to see a walled up bogged down 60 year old Rey and her black and gay Jedi Order.
Make sure to go multiple times! Star Wars is going to need the support for those films
the difference is that I won't be having an emotional breakdown over it and saying the israelites destroyed my childhood
I’ve never said anything about israelites in my entire life.
Also, I’m looking forward to seeing Rey as an old broken failure who failed at everything and there being an OP handsome white man who is perfect at everything and solves every problem in 5 hours flat and brings back the bestest Jedi Order EVER!
But again, I’m sure it will be a black homosexual
Rey defined 0 people’s childhoods. She’s one of 476 patronizingly overpowered females designed by corporations to get more sales from that demographic
Even my most liberal female friends see RIGHT THROUGH Rey Palpatine
I'm sure you hang around a lot of little girls you fricking creep
>I don’t think anyone thinks…Rey
That’s right. For the first time you’re right
Yoda is the one who failed. Luke is the one who fixed Yoda’s (many) failures.
Then Luke failed again and Rey has to fix Luke's failures until the next trilogy.
But Luke didn’t fail in George Lucas’s Sequel Trilogy. Episode 9 ends with Luke as Grandmaster.
Source?
Source is get fricked homosexual
>The Force Is With Her
Gas
JJA tanked it, Rian just kicked its body
Rian was a midwit that fricked up but I appreciate that he was trying to make a film. It was tanked when Disney bought it.
Knives Out did extremely well. Netflix was desperate for content so they bought the sequels from him.
He didnt tank star wars, the audience did by not getting it.
we got it and still didnt like it
As much as JJ's?
The same with the Game of Thrones homosexuals. If the corporation (Disney in this case, HBO in GoT's) admits that they fricked it up, they have to admit that their franchise is fricked up. They will never do that, they will pretend it was "controversial" or whatever but they'll never admit their golden goose laid aids-infested eggs.
Behind closed doors is a different story though, these guys cost those corporations so much fricking money, now and in decades to come.
If they admit they fricked up, they can try fixing it though.
I think of Dexter and how the new season was basically Showtime trying to fix what sucks.
>and then they ended the new Dexter the same way, disappointing fans with an unsatisfying ending
Yeah, so it was exactly like what they guy you're replying to said
GoT had problems from the get-go, tbh.
Picking a non-finished book with an author that takes a gorillion years to write a page was a bad idea to begin with, but it kept getting worse and worse the more it tried to distance itself from the book
A literal copy of the book is, unironically, the best adaptation you can make. Anything other than that is either garbage or fanfiction.
No one could ever change my mind on this, because its literal truth.
SW got pozzed to death.
I completely agree. George R.R Martin spent over 20 years of his career writing for television before he started Asoiaf and wrote it like a grand soap opera in a fantasy setting.
It was quite literally made for television. The problem is now the industry thinks fantasy in general is great for adapting to television.
*You're
>How did he get away with tanking Star Wars?
Disney convinced journalists to make the film a battle in the culture wars, on the same wave-length as shit like gg and the election.
By politicising the film, they guaranteed that people would defend it regardless of quality, much like Ghostbusters 2016. The difference is that star wars is such a strong brand that the film literally couldn't "flop" (relatively, yes, in actuality it would always make a profit, technically).
Therefore, the journalists never had to admit that they were wrong and thus continue to suck Rian's dick at every available opportunity. Honestly, Rian is fricking lucky as shit to have landed in the middle of this situation since 9 times out of 10 it would've ended his career.
TFA was a terrible foundation for a new trilogy, an inferior remake of ANH with unlikable new characters. People allowed the hype and marketing to blind them to how shit it really was, similar to what happened when Phantom Menace came out and people like Kevin Smith raved and cried over how good it was. It took the Last Jedi to make people realise their earlier mistake.
TFA was a mediocre facsimile of a beloved film that milked its nostalgia. Fans gave it a pass for being so because they had been starved of content for so long that such a morsel tasted delicious to them. They expected the next movie to be fully cooked, which is why the backlash was much bigger for TLJ.
The 30-40 years after the OT was the Era of the Big 3, but especially the Era of Luke Skywalker. Given that the entire Star Wars story takes place over 30,000+ years, it should be no big goddamn deal to let Luke (& Leia & Han) have their 30 years in the Sun. But Kathleen came in and burned ALL of that down in a fruitless quest to get you to like her bland New Corporate “Characters” better. It was so tacky and obvious and tryhard that 90% of the fans saw right through it.
Right now Star Wars is just treading water waiting for someone more creative to take the reigns and hopefully reunite the fanbase again
>hopefully reunite the fanbase again
This will NEVER happen.
I agree, surprised so many didn't see it from the beginning. It was doomed from the start. However, it's not like those movies only did poorly just because of shaky foundation.
Stop making this thread. He made a bad movie. That's it. What do you mean by "get away" with it? Did you expect that he was going to be thrown in jail for that? His movie bombed, he faced lots of public criticism, there's no more talk of him directing anymore Star Wars projects. That's the price he paid. He didn't "get away" with anything.
>get away
he went back to sucking off his literally who israelite friend in order to make glorified indie films and will never ever be allowed to touch a major franchise again.
how exactly did he 'get away' with anything?
test
sneed
Fricks up entire trilogy to be le contrarian and own Snoke theorists
Trannies are so hysterical and self-obsessed that they feel compelled to waste their time in wallowing in a black hole of narcissism, sexual role playing, paranoia, instead of getting the mental help they so desperately need.
>paragraphs
no one is reading that
Black person I know this is bait so I'm not going to read all that. Be clever, make better bait. Have a (you) for the effort.
every time.
he destroyed all of Cinemaphile and the incel movement with his masterpiece of a film he is truly based and red pilled
I’m glad he stood up against the white incels
???????????
How is last Jedi worse than the other ones? It's all the same exact bullshit.
And what does that post-it even mean? Smoke theory? Who even is this guy.
KYS
He didn't. JJ did. Brainlets can't tell the difference.
They both did. The ST is complete trash
go watch alias, then you will realize just how horrible of a choice it was to have JJ involved in star wars in any way
jj's only good at setting up interesting things, and even that is hit or miss. The fact that he can never come to a satisfying conclusion though puts him in dumpster tier
Looper is a good 8/10 movie
Star wars always was shit.
That's not JJ Abrams
>Trannies are so hysterical and self-obsessed that they feel compelled to waste their time in wallowing in a black hole of narcissism, sexual role playing, paranoia, instead of getting the mental help they so desperately need.
>no one is reading that
>I know this is bait so I'm not going to read all that. Be clever, make better bait. Have a (you) for the effort.
I'd be inclined to give Rian a pass because some of the ideas were good in theory but he gave them the worst fricking resolution right away
>Kylo and Rey are two sides of the same coin
Resolution is simply that Rey is good and Kylo is bad and we keep going on with that.
>Kylo wants to destroy the past and start brand new
Except that all he does is keep killing the nu-rebels with his nu-empire resources
>Luke is in isolation and disgruntled with the Jedi way in general
Just decides that Jedi are ok anyway and then kills himself
As for the Finn/Poe/Rose/Holdo stuff, it was all complete garbage.
>your childhood hero can choppy chop robots with his burn stick? Omg badass so true!!!
>The Last Jedi good
Most of the creation process post 2010 is based on ruining established properties
blackmail
He came in and burned Star Wars to the ground which is exactly what he set out to do.
Remember when Luke Skywalker tried to murder his nephew in his sleep because he was having a bad force dream?
It's something that could have actually worked with something better than a late night misunderstanding and with a better resolution than "I'm sorry, I'm now killing myself, Rey will take care of turning you good in the next movie"
Remember when Kathleen Kennedy throw out George Lucas’s Sequel Outline and betrayed him? Remember when she had the whole story re-written so it revolved around her personal stand-in (Rey) who was the best at everything and solved every problem without training or explanation?
Saying she had the whole story written out is wrong. Each movie was like they never wanted to relate to each other.
>fa/tv/irgins are triggered by TLJ again
*upvoted* fellow redditor!
The sequel politics were so bad they went out of their way to make sure not to explain them. Those Disney homosexuals literally thought politics is what made the prequels suck.
I'm gonna answer this with a question that will give you your answer.
>how did x get away with y
What are YOU going to do about it?
>the whole point of the death star is that it's mobile
>death star cannon mounted on a planet isn't mobile
>oh but that's okay because all the relevant planets in the galaxy are within 5 light minutes of said starkiller and conveniently aligned for easy aiming
>they somehow never noticed it being built
>you can carpet bomb in space because gravity is basically magic, I guess
>there's apparently a lot of air resistance in space so you need tons of fuel to keep flying
>how many trillions of gallons of gas do you need to tank a starship, anyway?
>reactors? what are they?
>you can track ships while they're moving faster than light
>what is being tracked, exactly?
>lol just don't think about it
>lightspeed ramming
Why did they let people who flunked elementary school science class to write scifi movies?
They use fusion in SW.
Where's his star wars trilogy?
I hate this gay for other reasons but he made the only original Star Wars sequel even if it still sucked ass.
Abrams tanked Star Wars when he made TFA a rehash of A New Hope.
I have to thank him, because of his god-awful movie I'm literally cured of any attachment to star wars. I feel nothing when Disney butchers some character or lore. Its like I now know Star Wars is over and there will never be good star wars content again.
why ignore this why not embrace it and just run with it
As much as JJ's?