And three years between New Hope and Empire Strikes Back, it was clearly implied that Luke tried to train on his own and it got him somewhere (like being able to pull his sword). And not to mention, I don't think Lucas or Keshner ever said how much time between ESB and ROTJ even approximately passed.
just an aside that three years is bullshit. the opening crawl making it seem like the Rebels leaving Yavin was a recent thing and Han and Leia's conversation about him leaving doesn't make it seem at all like three years have passed
Well it's been an established thing for years now that it's six months between ESB and ROTJ.
just an aside that three years is bullshit. the opening crawl making it seem like the Rebels leaving Yavin was a recent thing and Han and Leia's conversation about him leaving doesn't make it seem at all like three years have passed
They've clearly had adventures between films. Han being confronted by a bounty Hunter is mentioned. Vader knows that Luke is his son. The Empire has built the Super Star Destroyer.
three years though? Leia asking Han that she thought he was going to stay? like being there for three years didn't convince her? and their relationship being stagnant for that long? and Obi-Wan waited three years to tell Luke to seek out a Jedi master. it just rings false
Looked it up its three tears after, and has been for decades. Doesn't sit well with me though.
2 years ago
Anonymous
I'm not debating canon, that's what it is, but it's bullshit and doesn't fit
2 years ago
Anonymous
How long do you think fits for the the Empire to have been searching, and having time to get Vader his spiffy new mega-ship, while he found out who Luke was?
Also, in response to it 'not fitting' because Obi-Wan never showed up before then, you can put that down to a combination of force ghosts not being an instant thing (took Qui-Gon 13 years) plus not being urgent until right before the Empire found Hoth (will of the force 'deciding' when to act).
I guess that explains why Disney has been able to shit out tons of comics between ANH and ESB. They even gave Luke a yellow saber after Han gets carbonised
He started his training with Obi-Wan and carried it forward with Yoda. Also, it's made a point in the film that Luke abandons his formal training by Yoda because of his emotional commitment to his friends (something Yoda tries to deter him from doing). Lucas echoed this in the prequels with Anakin running off to save his mother and failing (one of the plot points that lead to his downfall). It also hadn't been established just what Jedi training is and how long it takes and, if we're comparing this to the Disney films, Anakin/Luke are basically beings of the force naturally predisposed to be vehicles for it. That mechanic is shallow but works in the context of Lucas's films--in Disney Wars it's just a retread and doesn't make any sense at all.
FYI: The prequels are shit and I'm not saying they aren't by going along with the fact Lucas intentionally paralleled them.
>That mechanic is shallow but works in the context of Lucas's films--in Disney Wars it's just a retread and doesn't make any sense at all.
I'll add that they try to explain it away with a throwaway line about "the sacred Jedi texts!" being burned and Yoda pointing out that Luke never read them himself. That was really dumb.
Isn't that scene from the NU-wars just an insult for the lore gays and old fans? That now they have the power to frick with all of the story and that your opinion doesn't matter?
To get your answer, all you have to do is compare Luke to Leia ; she grew up in the lap of luxury, ever want filled, every need cared for, she had to rebel against her caretakers and seek out challenges. Whereas Luke lived in a terribly dangerous environent where it's learn quick or die. If you ever go to town, anyone could rob, kill, enslave you. Even at home they always had to be on the look out for marauding bands of savages. They had to constantly farm and scrape by on meager earnings. About the only cool things he had were his speeder car and his T-16 that he flew at high speeds through canyons and bullseye shot tiny fast moving targets regularly. He was constantly using force powers but he just didn't realize it or know how to make the most of them. But it clicked really fast when Obi-wan finally spilled the beans.
Being the son of a powerful jedi and training under the guidance of obiwan and yoda helped him out, also the concepts of padawan’s didn’t exist in the original era
Luke's progression was one of knowing thyself and learning to let go of rational thought in order to let the Force guide his actions, it wasn't studying the Jedi rulebooks and leveling up at the literal Yoda Academy
Indeed, basically yoda also realized the errors of the way the order went and ultimately decided to let Luke chose his own destiny as long as he doesn’t go down the path his father once did.
The only true canon is the original 6 movies and Clone Wars. That’s it.
Beyond that there are two different Extended Universes to choose from - either the Legends Canon or the Disney Canon. Pick one or mix the two together, both are equally seen as B-Tier to the true canon of George Lucas
He was a prodigy.
Yoda taught him the basics and trusted he would learn the rest as he went.
Yoda specifically does not confer the title of Knight or Maste on Luke. Just "Jedi".
Vader does the same with "your training is complete", but never calls him a Knight.
Palpatine also never uses the term. Just "Jedi" in reference to Luke.
Luke was essentially a Padawan at the time of ROTJ, although such things as Padawans no longer existed since the Jedi order was being rebooted. But that was his rough level of knowledge.
Lucas always claimed that the Jedi we see in the OT are a shadow of what they used to be. He said this back in the 80s when ROTJ came out. Luke is still 90% untrained when he faces Vader on the Death Star II, and Vader is a crippled old man on life support.
Palpatine's role as a Sith is not elaborated on and at the time it was a common question to ask if he even used a lightsaber or if he was just some kind of space sorcerer that only shoots lightning.
I mean the 501st definitely fleshed out her training through the course of the war but I don't think she'd have access to the material or raw manpower needed to replicate it.
>Someone with a 110 IQ has more “training” than someone with a 275 IQ
It doesn’t matter. Very Quickly the person with the 275 IQ will surpass the 110 IQ person and will never look back. Neither Luke or Ahsoka are traditional Jedi- and that’s what makes them great. But, Luke is MUCH more powerful than Ashoka can ever hope to be
>Palpatine’s role as a Sith is not elaborated on and at the time it was a common question to ask if he even used a lightsaber or if he was just some kind of space sorcerer that only shoots lightning.
More evidence that SW fans were always dumb. Palpatine is clearly an evil sorcerer overlord archetype and he’s held up as a foil to Yoda, both of whom are masters of the mystical applications of the Force rather than the physical.
I weep every time the Emperor shows up in some shitty spinoff and immediately starts chucking lightning bolts.
The idea that he was this super depraved master of black magic was what made him scary. He should have hundreds of evil “spells” at his fingertips, instead Lucas made him a one trick pony ever since Episode 3 because he doesnt understand his own characters
Yeah Lucas followed the rule of cool for everything and became a slave to the fandoms worst interpretations. >The desert robes Obi Wan wore? They're actually the jedi robes and they all wear them. >The emperor who calls Luke's lightsaber a "jed's weapon?" And clearly had no lightsaber of his own to block Luke's? He is also skilled with them. >Yoda? He also uses a lightsaber even though he's clearly supposed to be a sage who doesn't fight.
Wow that rules where did you get that really rare opinion, you must have studied a long time and did a lot of personal thinking to make that criticism. I don’t think I’ve seen it anywhere else
Why would they not let him in? Jabba was clearly expecting him. He sent a hologram and a peace offering. He could've just lowered his hood and said who he was.
Murder is not the Jedi way.
Where is it implied they're dead? It only takes seconds to knock someone out from a choke
Why would be incapacitate the doormen at a place he was invited to
>Invited
Luke entered the same way the droids did. Two Gamorreans crossed their axes to keep Luke out. Luke chokes them. I don't remember if they fell to the ground or were killed. Then Bib Fortuna comes out to try saying Jabba isn't seeing anyone. Luke mind tricks him. Then Luke sees Jabba, who gets woken by all this and even called Bib a fool for falling for the mind trick.
Luke forcing his way in was a way of demanding respect from Jabba.
I understood this at ten years old, I don't see why "he was invited" man is struggling.
>Jabba was clearly expecting him
Doesn't mean he was going to let him in. And seeing as Jabba was never going to do a deal, he was right to try to stop him getting in.
>The Force is discussed almost exclusively in reference to means of attack and lightsaber duels when the entire purpose of Yoda and Obi-Wan's teachings are to let go of the material and accept that you yourself are part of a greater entity
I miss when the Force was utility, knowledge and mysticism and not about power levels.
lol what the frick are you talking about bro? the force is taught to be used "onlly for knowledge and defense, never for attack" and then in the first 15 minutes you watch Ben Kenobi chop a guys arm off after already cutting his blaster in two
Jedi are like samurai where the ythink they're better than everyone and can just kill anyone they want without reprecussions
Wouldn't really say all Jedi are like that. I mean Yoda isn't, obviously. Still, when Obi-Wan is teaching Luke he's saying and doing all the right shit, even if he himself was never truly a master at it.
Also he kinda lets himself get killed by Vader.
>So... what is he doing?
Jedi mind trick.
Also they were holding their polearms.
Did you watch the link? It's like 24 seconds in. There is a specific cut that shows one of the guards by himself against the wall grabbing his throat, trying to breathe.
This dude choked a b***h. It makes no sense in regards to Luke's character, whatever that is, or the context.
I didn't notice it until on a recent rewatch. Could be easily missed.
He definitely chokes those poor, innocent security guards. And all he was there for was negotiations. How could Lucas let this slip by during the edit?
It's not easy to miss and it's there because the it's dubiously dark side behavior and raises questions about Luke's internal conflict between the dark and light sides.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Sure, I get the temptation side of Luke's mostly offscreen arc, but like I said earlier; it doesn't make sense in the context. He's already announced his pending arrival and is there specifically to barter with Jabba, whether it works or not. He's not sneaking in or anything.
It's like this entire movie was written in a weekend. RotJ is truly Prequel-tier.
John Williams isn't an excuse for shoddy screenwriting.
2 years ago
Anonymous
he just had an butthole moment, choking people is the signs of an butthole. it's not that complicated
2 years ago
Anonymous
Which is what anon is saying, he starts killing and attacking people unnecessarily because of his mood. His morality slips.
2 years ago
Anonymous
no anon doesn't get that, he's saying it doesn't make sense for Luke's character.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Oh yeah I guess so. I agree the OT has cracks upon cracks but Like being dark at the start of ROTH does parse for me
2 years ago
Anonymous
Luke* being dark at the start of ROTJ* FRICK
2 years ago
Anonymous
>He's not sneaking in or anything.
He is. He announced his arrival but Jabba thinks it's a big joke and would have just had him seized on sight if he tried to come in normally.
So he force chokes the guards and off-screen uses other tactics until he walks into Jabba's throne room during a moment of down-time. Everyone is dozing when Luke finally shows up in front of Jabba in-person. Jabba is also pretty high on something too. His eyes are all glazed over in a way they weren't in the previous scenes.
2 years ago
Anonymous
oh and I forgot he uses a mind trick on Jabba's Twilek right-hand man, Bib Fortuna.
2 years ago
Anonymous
And he probably used the force to lift the gate before he walks in.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Jabba has been addicted to Death Sticks since Chancellor Valorum was in power. Mrs. Hutt has been trying to get him clean for years
to answer your question, it was to show that he had gone down a darker route since the end of TESB, to make the viewer nervous about if he'd fully go to the dark side or not
>onlly for knowledge and defense, never for attack" and then in the first 15 minutes you watch Ben Kenobi chop a guys arm off after already cutting his blaster in two
did you miss the part where those thugs were about to pull out a blaster? oh wait you didn't you're just a fricking moron. Do you remember the scene where Obi-wan walked up to those two called them fat morons, cut their hand off, walked away no explanation? Because we saw different movies dumbass.
>blows up the Death Star >blows up the Imperial Weapon Factory >Founds and leads Rogue Squadron >Defeats Grand Inquisitor >Defeats Darth Vader and redeems him > Ends the Sith by doing things his own way and ignoring all his “mentors” >Biggest reason why the Empire fell >Takes out the entire Dark Trooper Army by himself when they were seen as unstoppable >Founds and leads the New Jedi Order >Defeats Snoke >Becomes most powerful Jedi ever
How the frick is that sucking?? He’s like the SW version of Superman
Luke lost all character after Empire Strikes Back. The way he acts in Return of the Jedi is far removed from earlier appearances but it's still "Luke". Luke in everything past is just a flanderized version. His appearance in Book of Boba Fett being the epitome of Luke acting like a jedi master rather than luke the jedi master.
Because, when Yoda died, and especially when Anakin died, Luke was it (according to the movies, not so much EU and Disney continuities where 35353 Jedi survived the purge).
When Empire was made there was a bunch more films planned which would've involved things like Luke finding his sister and presumably showing him learning how to be a jedi. Empire had stressed Lucas out, he paid for the budget himself so he changed his mind and decided to wrap things up in the next film.
Because when everybody else from the order is dead you can decide who becomes a jedi and when, he can declare himself grandmaster ultimate jedi and there's nobody to say otherwise
It doesn't matter. He was never strong up until Return. In his encounter with Vader in ESB, Vader was clearly toying with him. Like an amateur fighter going up against Muhammad Ali. He landed one strike, a lucky shot, and then Vader had enough and ended him in one second one-handed.
Whether or not he called himself a Jedi (which I don't think he formally did until Return) doesn't really matter.
Yes. Watch the scene with him and Leia before he leaves Endor again, it's the answer to all your questions
2 years ago
Anonymous
One of the absolute worst scenes in the trilogy. Prolongs the tiresome Ewok plot like dull patchwork meant to tie up an incidental loose end.
Like a soap opera
>and it's somewhat hinted that he's not really a jedi in 6 yet
He becomes a jedi when he discards his lightsaber, refuses temptation and fully embraces his faith in the force.
Yes but in the OT’s own attitude, that doesn’t necessarily entail permanent transcendental mastery and a set of superpowers either. Luke is being in tune and applying discipline in that moment
He has the highest Midichlorian count of any being ever. He trained with Yoda/ Obi-Wan for about a year and then trained himself. But, it’s basically because he is just the most naturally powerful being in Star Wars.
I don’t get excited or not excited. It’s literally the story as George Lucas wrote it. Whether I love it or I think it’s pants on the head is entirely irrelevant.
Luke is just uniquely gifted and powerful. That’s it.
Yes, but the thread is asking a specific question. And the answer is pretty well known by now. The Skywalkers were created by the Force. Luke was the most balanced, and realized of the four known Skywalkers. He’s the most powerful
Doesn't change shit.
Matter is a function of the Force all the way down to these micro-organisms.
Higher count of those thingies correlate with higher Force involvement.
Think of it this way….most force sensitives/ Jedi have an M-Count of 10-12k.
Luke had an M-Count of almost 40k. He was a Demi-God like his father. That’s why, even with a year of training, Yoda and Kenobi were happy to send him up against the Sith. He’s just insanely otherworldly powerful
Never saw Return of the Jedi, huh? I mean it’s only 40 years old and one of the most famous films of all time so I can blame you for not having heard of it. Here:
Master Yoda: No more training do you require. Already know you that which you need.
You're asking the wrong question. The question isn't >why did Luke become a Jedi so quickly compared to the prequel trilogy
it's >why did Lucas ignore the original trilogy and make training take so much longer in the prequel trilogy
I think that the PT parses okay with the OT by saying the Jedi had built a regressive program that inhibited the more honest personal path to a real Jedi, producing more military units that they did spiritual ones. I also think this parses with the PT okay because Rey is in the discipline of Luke as a spiritual wanderer more than she is the long study to become a church soldier that the old Jedi created
Necessity. There simply wasn't the time for Yoda and Ben to do a "by-the-book" apprenticeship for Luke, so he got the bare-bones version and sent to work.
It didn't hurt that his father was so powerful in the Force and so was Luke.
It's always been pretty clear there was no long term plan and the first movie was intended to be one and done. Everything since has either been discarded ideas for the original film, or retconned in. Not to say I didn't enjoy them as a kid but none of these movies have consistency that holds up under scrutiny.
It takes like three years to get a blackbelt in karate. It took Luke 4 years to become a Jedi. The comparison is one to one and Luke took a year longer than most
>Well, I left home just a week before >And I've never ever been a Jedi before >But Obi Wan, he set me straight, of course >He said, "Go to Yoda and he'll show you the Force" >Well, I'm not the kind that would argue with Ben >So it looks like I'm gonna start all over again >With my Yoda >Yo-Yo-Yo-Yo-Yoda >Yo-Yo-Yo-Yo-Yoda >Yoda >Yo-Yo-Yo-Yo-Yoda >Yo-Yo-Yo-Yo-Yoda >So I used the Force >I picked up a box >I lifted some rocks >While I stood on my head >Well, I won't forget what Yoda said >He said, "Luke, stay away from the darker side" >"If you start to go astray, let the Force be your guide" >Oh, my Yoda >Yo-Yo-Yo-Yo-Yoda
if i had the force id just use it to crush peoples balls. at randomly, on the highway. just be driving past and see an incoming car on the other side of the highway? pop. no one would ever be able to pin it on me
No one tell him he couldn't. >Dad, and former mentors are ghosts, so not really in any position to give a rank, not that they really care. >"Last" Jedi Master said if he confronts Vader he'll be a jedi. >Possible Togruta gf is excommunicado.
Op, the answer is simple. When you're the only member of a club left you can give yourself whatever rank or title you want. Jedi Master, Jedi Grand Master, Jedi Grand Master Plus. No one is gonna tell him otherwise.
He did some exercise and practice and then left to be chased around the room by Vader for several hours while Palpatine giggled. His victory wasn't in battle, it was his emotional plea to Vader.
He defeated Vader in their duel, you dumb frick. He then defeated Palpatine by throwing down his weapon and choosing death. Palpatine literally wanted Luke to strike Palpatine down so he could take over his body. His refusal to do so was the victory.
- blows up the Death Star
- leads a group of 4 people against the most powerful Criminal Syndicate in the Galaxy and wipes them all out
- defeats Vader handily in Lightsaber duel
He obviously rushed through the training, just like JK Rowling rushed through writing one of the dullest franchises in the history of movie franchises. Each episode following the boy wizard and his pals from Hogwarts Academy as they fight assorted villains has been indistinguishable from the others. Aside from the gloomy imagery, the series’ only consistency has been its lack of excitement and ineffective use of special effects, all to make magic unmagical, to make action seem inert.
Perhaps the die was cast when Rowling vetoed the idea of Spielberg directing the series; she made sure the series would never be mistaken for a work of art that meant anything to anybody, just ridiculously profitable cross-promotion for her books. The Harry Potter series might be anti-Christian (or not), but it’s certainly the anti-James Bond series in its refusal of wonder, beauty and excitement. No one wants to face that fact. Now, thankfully, they no longer have to.
>a-at least the books were good though
"No!"
The writing is dreadful; the book was terrible. As I read, I noticed that every time a character went for a walk, the author wrote instead that the character "stretched his legs."
I began marking on the back of an envelope every time that phrase was repeated. I stopped only after I had marked the envelope several dozen times. I was incredulous. Rowling's mind is so governed by cliches and dead metaphors that she has no other style of writing. Later I read a lavish, loving review of Harry Potter by the same Stephen King. He wrote something to the effect of, "If these kids are reading Harry Potter at 11 or 12, then when they get older they will go on to read Stephen King." And he was quite right. He was not being ironic. When you read "Harry Potter" you are, in fact, trained to read Stephen King.
Are people really arguing over Luke force choking a couple of guards at jabba's palace ACKSHULLY makes him a sith lord? What was he supposed to do?
>Oh I'm sorry I'll wait for an invitation... >Nothing personnel jabba *teleports*
If it makes you feel better he didn't kill them, he just choked them out (unlike Vader who makes sure that whoever he Force chokes actually does). Even though it wouldn't matter if he killed them because jabba's guards are for all intents and purposes evil (they willingly serve a known slaver and crime boss) and would not let Luke into the palace without violence. Not to mention that jabba doesn't care of a couple of gamorrean guards die. Would you have preferred he just merk them then and there with his light saber and ruin the whole plan of minimal casualties? Maybe it's just a change in culture of OT vs Disneywars where the protag fights against an unstoppable force and uses the power of Deus ex machina or lazy writing to end up persevering in the end?
It was out of necessity given that the Jedi order was dead, and he was already an adult. Luke was sort of an emergency and the last hope of the Jedi. This is why it's more tense in ROTJ because Luke's training was rushed, and it's a harder tell if he will be good enough.
Yoda and Obi-Wan hid him and watched over him for his entire life. He was their main plan for decades. It’s just that Obi Wan decided to let him have a normal childhood
He didn't.
Six months between ESB and RotJ is pretty fricking quickly.
And three years between New Hope and Empire Strikes Back, it was clearly implied that Luke tried to train on his own and it got him somewhere (like being able to pull his sword). And not to mention, I don't think Lucas or Keshner ever said how much time between ESB and ROTJ even approximately passed.
just an aside that three years is bullshit. the opening crawl making it seem like the Rebels leaving Yavin was a recent thing and Han and Leia's conversation about him leaving doesn't make it seem at all like three years have passed
Well it's been an established thing for years now that it's six months between ESB and ROTJ.
They've clearly had adventures between films. Han being confronted by a bounty Hunter is mentioned. Vader knows that Luke is his son. The Empire has built the Super Star Destroyer.
three years though? Leia asking Han that she thought he was going to stay? like being there for three years didn't convince her? and their relationship being stagnant for that long? and Obi-Wan waited three years to tell Luke to seek out a Jedi master. it just rings false
Looked it up its three tears after, and has been for decades. Doesn't sit well with me though.
I'm not debating canon, that's what it is, but it's bullshit and doesn't fit
How long do you think fits for the the Empire to have been searching, and having time to get Vader his spiffy new mega-ship, while he found out who Luke was?
Also, in response to it 'not fitting' because Obi-Wan never showed up before then, you can put that down to a combination of force ghosts not being an instant thing (took Qui-Gon 13 years) plus not being urgent until right before the Empire found Hoth (will of the force 'deciding' when to act).
I always thought was 2 years between ESB and ROTJ
I guess that explains why Disney has been able to shit out tons of comics between ANH and ESB. They even gave Luke a yellow saber after Han gets carbonised
They was a whole Marvel series of comics between ANH and ESB around the actual time of the OT.
in the old EU it was 1 year between ESB and ROTJ
He started his training with Obi-Wan and carried it forward with Yoda. Also, it's made a point in the film that Luke abandons his formal training by Yoda because of his emotional commitment to his friends (something Yoda tries to deter him from doing). Lucas echoed this in the prequels with Anakin running off to save his mother and failing (one of the plot points that lead to his downfall). It also hadn't been established just what Jedi training is and how long it takes and, if we're comparing this to the Disney films, Anakin/Luke are basically beings of the force naturally predisposed to be vehicles for it. That mechanic is shallow but works in the context of Lucas's films--in Disney Wars it's just a retread and doesn't make any sense at all.
FYI: The prequels are shit and I'm not saying they aren't by going along with the fact Lucas intentionally paralleled them.
>That mechanic is shallow but works in the context of Lucas's films--in Disney Wars it's just a retread and doesn't make any sense at all.
I'll add that they try to explain it away with a throwaway line about "the sacred Jedi texts!" being burned and Yoda pointing out that Luke never read them himself. That was really dumb.
Isn't that scene from the NU-wars just an insult for the lore gays and old fans? That now they have the power to frick with all of the story and that your opinion doesn't matter?
based first bost
relentlessly handsome
Fat baby hands.
What a twink homosexual.
Incest
So that's why Obi-Wan didn't stop them...
To get your answer, all you have to do is compare Luke to Leia ; she grew up in the lap of luxury, ever want filled, every need cared for, she had to rebel against her caretakers and seek out challenges. Whereas Luke lived in a terribly dangerous environent where it's learn quick or die. If you ever go to town, anyone could rob, kill, enslave you. Even at home they always had to be on the look out for marauding bands of savages. They had to constantly farm and scrape by on meager earnings. About the only cool things he had were his speeder car and his T-16 that he flew at high speeds through canyons and bullseye shot tiny fast moving targets regularly. He was constantly using force powers but he just didn't realize it or know how to make the most of them. But it clicked really fast when Obi-wan finally spilled the beans.
Being the son of a powerful jedi and training under the guidance of obiwan and yoda helped him out, also the concepts of padawan’s didn’t exist in the original era
So, in your heart of hearts, that part of the OT is basically non canon then right? You figure it’s some type of mistake?
Not him but frick prequelgays
Luke's progression was one of knowing thyself and learning to let go of rational thought in order to let the Force guide his actions, it wasn't studying the Jedi rulebooks and leveling up at the literal Yoda Academy
Yeah pretty much. It’s supposed to be a mysterious path, right?
Indeed, basically yoda also realized the errors of the way the order went and ultimately decided to let Luke chose his own destiny as long as he doesn’t go down the path his father once did.
Disney gays are so obsessed with canon non-canon. The best way to watch the Star Wars movies is to not cross compare trilogies.
The only true canon is the original 6 movies and Clone Wars. That’s it.
Beyond that there are two different Extended Universes to choose from - either the Legends Canon or the Disney Canon. Pick one or mix the two together, both are equally seen as B-Tier to the true canon of George Lucas
Original 3 movies**
Squizo take. George thought about all of this beforehand?
He’s a Skywalker he already had the ability of a lifelong-trained Jedi master at birth he just needed a crash course to unlock it.
that's how the force originally worked, yes, and it was great. luke unlocks leia simply by telling her she's got the force.
He was a prodigy.
Yoda taught him the basics and trusted he would learn the rest as he went.
Yoda specifically does not confer the title of Knight or Maste on Luke. Just "Jedi".
Vader does the same with "your training is complete", but never calls him a Knight.
Palpatine also never uses the term. Just "Jedi" in reference to Luke.
Luke was essentially a Padawan at the time of ROTJ, although such things as Padawans no longer existed since the Jedi order was being rebooted. But that was his rough level of knowledge.
Its because Jedi "ranks" didn't exist at the time of the original trilogy.
George invented them later.
>Now I am the MASTER.
Lucas always claimed that the Jedi we see in the OT are a shadow of what they used to be. He said this back in the 80s when ROTJ came out. Luke is still 90% untrained when he faces Vader on the Death Star II, and Vader is a crippled old man on life support.
Palpatine's role as a Sith is not elaborated on and at the time it was a common question to ask if he even used a lightsaber or if he was just some kind of space sorcerer that only shoots lightning.
Palpatine never used a lightsaber.
Neither did Yoda.
Prequels are not canon.
Don't care, didn't read.
I'm glad that Ahsoka is actually alive and is there to help Luke become "a real Jedi", pass on her knowledge of real Jedi Knights.
But she never finished her training either. Unless you meant "training" in which case Disney doesn't have the balls to do it.
She still has more training than Luke even if it was cut off abruptly.
I mean the 501st definitely fleshed out her training through the course of the war but I don't think she'd have access to the material or raw manpower needed to replicate it.
>Someone with a 110 IQ has more “training” than someone with a 275 IQ
It doesn’t matter. Very Quickly the person with the 275 IQ will surpass the 110 IQ person and will never look back. Neither Luke or Ahsoka are traditional Jedi- and that’s what makes them great. But, Luke is MUCH more powerful than Ashoka can ever hope to be
I'm screen capping this for my cringe collection.
Add it yours. You’ve been posting nonstop cringe for this entire thread, homosexual
>Palpatine’s role as a Sith is not elaborated on and at the time it was a common question to ask if he even used a lightsaber or if he was just some kind of space sorcerer that only shoots lightning.
More evidence that SW fans were always dumb. Palpatine is clearly an evil sorcerer overlord archetype and he’s held up as a foil to Yoda, both of whom are masters of the mystical applications of the Force rather than the physical.
I weep every time the Emperor shows up in some shitty spinoff and immediately starts chucking lightning bolts.
The idea that he was this super depraved master of black magic was what made him scary. He should have hundreds of evil “spells” at his fingertips, instead Lucas made him a one trick pony ever since Episode 3 because he doesnt understand his own characters
Yeah Lucas followed the rule of cool for everything and became a slave to the fandoms worst interpretations.
>The desert robes Obi Wan wore? They're actually the jedi robes and they all wear them.
>The emperor who calls Luke's lightsaber a "jed's weapon?" And clearly had no lightsaber of his own to block Luke's? He is also skilled with them.
>Yoda? He also uses a lightsaber even though he's clearly supposed to be a sage who doesn't fight.
Wow that rules where did you get that really rare opinion, you must have studied a long time and did a lot of personal thinking to make that criticism. I don’t think I’ve seen it anywhere else
your seethe is delicious, prequelhomosexual 🙂
>ever since Episode 3
So... the last movie he ever made?
>vader suit canonically causes him pain all the time just because lmao frick this guy
still makes me laugh
Why did Luke force choke the two shrek guards at Jabba's palace?
He didn't.
So... what is he doing? Why is the piglet grabbing his throat?
>So... what is he doing?
Jedi mind trick.
Also they were holding their polearms.
He's obviously chocking them unconscious so he can slip into the armed guarded jabba palace. Are you moronic. They wouldn't have let him in.
You rather he cut their fricking heads off with his saber and set the whole place on high alert instead?
Why would they not let him in? Jabba was clearly expecting him. He sent a hologram and a peace offering. He could've just lowered his hood and said who he was.
Murder is not the Jedi way.
Where is it implied they're dead? It only takes seconds to knock someone out from a choke
Why would be incapacitate the doormen at a place he was invited to
>DEWWW IT!
>Invited
Luke entered the same way the droids did. Two Gamorreans crossed their axes to keep Luke out. Luke chokes them. I don't remember if they fell to the ground or were killed. Then Bib Fortuna comes out to try saying Jabba isn't seeing anyone. Luke mind tricks him. Then Luke sees Jabba, who gets woken by all this and even called Bib a fool for falling for the mind trick.
Luke forcing his way in was a way of demanding respect from Jabba.
I understood this at ten years old, I don't see why "he was invited" man is struggling.
>Jabba was clearly expecting him
Doesn't mean he was going to let him in. And seeing as Jabba was never going to do a deal, he was right to try to stop him getting in.
Nothing about RotJ's opening makes sense, it's just there to show off Jim Henson's Creature Shop.
He was being an butthole.
>What's the deal with airplane peanuts?
>The Force is discussed almost exclusively in reference to means of attack and lightsaber duels when the entire purpose of Yoda and Obi-Wan's teachings are to let go of the material and accept that you yourself are part of a greater entity
I miss when the Force was utility, knowledge and mysticism and not about power levels.
lol what the frick are you talking about bro? the force is taught to be used "onlly for knowledge and defense, never for attack" and then in the first 15 minutes you watch Ben Kenobi chop a guys arm off after already cutting his blaster in two
Jedi are like samurai where the ythink they're better than everyone and can just kill anyone they want without reprecussions
Wouldn't really say all Jedi are like that. I mean Yoda isn't, obviously. Still, when Obi-Wan is teaching Luke he's saying and doing all the right shit, even if he himself was never truly a master at it.
Also he kinda lets himself get killed by Vader.
Did you watch the link? It's like 24 seconds in. There is a specific cut that shows one of the guards by himself against the wall grabbing his throat, trying to breathe.
This dude choked a b***h. It makes no sense in regards to Luke's character, whatever that is, or the context.
>he thinks i need to watch a youtube clip for a movie i've watched for 40 years
No choke happened.
I didn't notice it until on a recent rewatch. Could be easily missed.
He definitely chokes those poor, innocent security guards. And all he was there for was negotiations. How could Lucas let this slip by during the edit?
For one Lucas is a hack. Everything good about the OT did not involve Lucas.
It's not easy to miss and it's there because the it's dubiously dark side behavior and raises questions about Luke's internal conflict between the dark and light sides.
Sure, I get the temptation side of Luke's mostly offscreen arc, but like I said earlier; it doesn't make sense in the context. He's already announced his pending arrival and is there specifically to barter with Jabba, whether it works or not. He's not sneaking in or anything.
It's like this entire movie was written in a weekend. RotJ is truly Prequel-tier.
John Williams isn't an excuse for shoddy screenwriting.
he just had an butthole moment, choking people is the signs of an butthole. it's not that complicated
Which is what anon is saying, he starts killing and attacking people unnecessarily because of his mood. His morality slips.
no anon doesn't get that, he's saying it doesn't make sense for Luke's character.
Oh yeah I guess so. I agree the OT has cracks upon cracks but Like being dark at the start of ROTH does parse for me
Luke* being dark at the start of ROTJ* FRICK
>He's not sneaking in or anything.
He is. He announced his arrival but Jabba thinks it's a big joke and would have just had him seized on sight if he tried to come in normally.
So he force chokes the guards and off-screen uses other tactics until he walks into Jabba's throne room during a moment of down-time. Everyone is dozing when Luke finally shows up in front of Jabba in-person. Jabba is also pretty high on something too. His eyes are all glazed over in a way they weren't in the previous scenes.
oh and I forgot he uses a mind trick on Jabba's Twilek right-hand man, Bib Fortuna.
And he probably used the force to lift the gate before he walks in.
Jabba has been addicted to Death Sticks since Chancellor Valorum was in power. Mrs. Hutt has been trying to get him clean for years
Pig men aren't really people though. It's like hitting a dog on the nose with a rolled up newspaper.
to answer your question, it was to show that he had gone down a darker route since the end of TESB, to make the viewer nervous about if he'd fully go to the dark side or not
>onlly for knowledge and defense, never for attack" and then in the first 15 minutes you watch Ben Kenobi chop a guys arm off after already cutting his blaster in two
did you miss the part where those thugs were about to pull out a blaster? oh wait you didn't you're just a fricking moron. Do you remember the scene where Obi-wan walked up to those two called them fat morons, cut their hand off, walked away no explanation? Because we saw different movies dumbass.
>pull the gun from their hands with the force
or
>you don't want to do that *waves hand*
or
>chop blaster in half and stop there
instead he permanently disfigures him lol, nice peaceful jedi you got there lol
fricking old republic worshipping troony
Force was always more like the poltergeist of luck.
He was the best they could do in such a short amount of time. Luke sucked.
>blows up the Death Star
>blows up the Imperial Weapon Factory
>Founds and leads Rogue Squadron
>Defeats Grand Inquisitor
>Defeats Darth Vader and redeems him
> Ends the Sith by doing things his own way and ignoring all his “mentors”
>Biggest reason why the Empire fell
>Takes out the entire Dark Trooper Army by himself when they were seen as unstoppable
>Founds and leads the New Jedi Order
>Defeats Snoke
>Becomes most powerful Jedi ever
How the frick is that sucking?? He’s like the SW version of Superman
He fought a grand inquisitor?
Yes, he beat the Grand Inquisitor and then the Grand Inquisitor went back to Vader in tears complaining about how powerful Luke was
I don’t remember that, source?
Hey thanks, I must have missed this from the comics where his spirit attempted to fight him but yes that is indeed a victory.
Luke lost all character after Empire Strikes Back. The way he acts in Return of the Jedi is far removed from earlier appearances but it's still "Luke". Luke in everything past is just a flanderized version. His appearance in Book of Boba Fett being the epitome of Luke acting like a jedi master rather than luke the jedi master.
He skipped a grade.
Because, when Yoda died, and especially when Anakin died, Luke was it (according to the movies, not so much EU and Disney continuities where 35353 Jedi survived the purge).
When Empire was made there was a bunch more films planned which would've involved things like Luke finding his sister and presumably showing him learning how to be a jedi. Empire had stressed Lucas out, he paid for the budget himself so he changed his mind and decided to wrap things up in the next film.
Pay to win bullshit
White privilege
because the idea that Jedi were trained practically from birth didn't exist when the original trilogy was made
‘Too old.’
Because when everybody else from the order is dead you can decide who becomes a jedi and when, he can declare himself grandmaster ultimate jedi and there's nobody to say otherwise
It doesn't matter. He was never strong up until Return. In his encounter with Vader in ESB, Vader was clearly toying with him. Like an amateur fighter going up against Muhammad Ali. He landed one strike, a lucky shot, and then Vader had enough and ended him in one second one-handed.
Whether or not he called himself a Jedi (which I don't think he formally did until Return) doesn't really matter.
Nepotism.
Quite a bit of fast-tracking when you're in a class of one.
For chewie and the ewoks
What did Yoda mean when he said "No, there is another?"
Shoddy sequel hook, right? I’m sure Lucas was sitting there thinking it could be Han
Leia
Who did literally nothing?
She was backup :_; but seriously it’s a half assed plot point
She can back that fat ass and breasts up on me
yes, because Luke fulfilled his role. she was the last hope in case he failed
And how the frick would that have played out? Say he died. Now what? Leia becomes a jedi? Lol
Yes. Watch the scene with him and Leia before he leaves Endor again, it's the answer to all your questions
One of the absolute worst scenes in the trilogy. Prolongs the tiresome Ewok plot like dull patchwork meant to tie up an incidental loose end.
Like a soap opera
It took him a few years, between Episode 5 and 6 (and it's somewhat hinted that he's not really a jedi in 6 yet).
Rey becomes a Jedi master after killing Sheev. Luke is pathetic
Luke is canonically twice as powerful as Rey and Sheev.
Go shill someplace else, dipshit
>and it's somewhat hinted that he's not really a jedi in 6 yet
He becomes a jedi when he discards his lightsaber, refuses temptation and fully embraces his faith in the force.
Yes but in the OT’s own attitude, that doesn’t necessarily entail permanent transcendental mastery and a set of superpowers either. Luke is being in tune and applying discipline in that moment
You’re saying this all to attack The Last Jedi, aren’t you!?
>quickly
Kys, kathleen
They were all dead, so who was to say he wasn't a Jedi?
He has the highest Midichlorian count of any being ever. He trained with Yoda/ Obi-Wan for about a year and then trained himself. But, it’s basically because he is just the most naturally powerful being in Star Wars.
Surely you can’t be excited about all this midichlorian stuff
>excited
I don’t get excited or not excited. It’s literally the story as George Lucas wrote it. Whether I love it or I think it’s pants on the head is entirely irrelevant.
Luke is just uniquely gifted and powerful. That’s it.
Right I get it. I’m just saying midichlorians are an unsatisfying aspiritual development
Yes, but the thread is asking a specific question. And the answer is pretty well known by now. The Skywalkers were created by the Force. Luke was the most balanced, and realized of the four known Skywalkers. He’s the most powerful
Doesn't change shit.
Matter is a function of the Force all the way down to these micro-organisms.
Higher count of those thingies correlate with higher Force involvement.
This is correct. Luke and Leia were like weapons of mass destruction waiting to be unlocked. They were that powerful
Think of it this way….most force sensitives/ Jedi have an M-Count of 10-12k.
Luke had an M-Count of almost 40k. He was a Demi-God like his father. That’s why, even with a year of training, Yoda and Kenobi were happy to send him up against the Sith. He’s just insanely otherworldly powerful
Do you really care about and abide by this midicholrian stuff? Does it truly spark joy?
>happy to send him up against the Sith.
Apart from when Yoda tells him it's too soon.
Never saw Return of the Jedi, huh? I mean it’s only 40 years old and one of the most famous films of all time so I can blame you for not having heard of it. Here:
Master Yoda: No more training do you require. Already know you that which you need.
You're asking the wrong question. The question isn't
>why did Luke become a Jedi so quickly compared to the prequel trilogy
it's
>why did Lucas ignore the original trilogy and make training take so much longer in the prequel trilogy
I think that the PT parses okay with the OT by saying the Jedi had built a regressive program that inhibited the more honest personal path to a real Jedi, producing more military units that they did spiritual ones. I also think this parses with the PT okay because Rey is in the discipline of Luke as a spiritual wanderer more than she is the long study to become a church soldier that the old Jedi created
I also think this parses with the ST* okay
>parses
Please stop using this word.
Makes sense with, then
Necessity. There simply wasn't the time for Yoda and Ben to do a "by-the-book" apprenticeship for Luke, so he got the bare-bones version and sent to work.
It didn't hurt that his father was so powerful in the Force and so was Luke.
Fictional film, whatever the writers want to happen can happen
are you guys not tired of circle-jerking the same shit over and over and over and over again?
star wars movies are not even good
>Cinemaphile is 5 people
Your post, however, is just so entertaining and useful.
He used a montage.
It's always been pretty clear there was no long term plan and the first movie was intended to be one and done. Everything since has either been discarded ideas for the original film, or retconned in. Not to say I didn't enjoy them as a kid but none of these movies have consistency that holds up under scrutiny.
>intended to be one and done.
Why did Vader get away?
He trained extensively between the first and second films. It's extremely evident if you aren't a moron.
second and third* sorry
basically between the end of Empire and start of ROTJ
that whiteoid stare
It takes like three years to get a blackbelt in karate. It took Luke 4 years to become a Jedi. The comparison is one to one and Luke took a year longer than most
Brother how does your karate analogy work? In that sport they reward you for persistence not skill.
You should have used Brazilian Jiujutsu instead moron.
This is the stupidest fricking post that I’ve ever read. Anywhere
its not really. did you see any of the fights luke got into? he got frickin school, and basically relied on "its frickin magic".
Go to bed, drunkard
wake up, sheeple
yeah they sure talk about schools alot im sure lmao
Oh, you’re black. That explains it
>Well, I left home just a week before
>And I've never ever been a Jedi before
>But Obi Wan, he set me straight, of course
>He said, "Go to Yoda and he'll show you the Force"
>Well, I'm not the kind that would argue with Ben
>So it looks like I'm gonna start all over again
>With my Yoda
>Yo-Yo-Yo-Yo-Yoda
>Yo-Yo-Yo-Yo-Yoda
>Yoda
>Yo-Yo-Yo-Yo-Yoda
>Yo-Yo-Yo-Yo-Yoda
>So I used the Force
>I picked up a box
>I lifted some rocks
>While I stood on my head
>Well, I won't forget what Yoda said
>He said, "Luke, stay away from the darker side"
>"If you start to go astray, let the Force be your guide"
>Oh, my Yoda
>Yo-Yo-Yo-Yo-Yoda
if i had the force id just use it to crush peoples balls. at randomly, on the highway. just be driving past and see an incoming car on the other side of the highway? pop. no one would ever be able to pin it on me
No one tell him he couldn't.
>Dad, and former mentors are ghosts, so not really in any position to give a rank, not that they really care.
>"Last" Jedi Master said if he confronts Vader he'll be a jedi.
>Possible Togruta gf is excommunicado.
Op, the answer is simple. When you're the only member of a club left you can give yourself whatever rank or title you want. Jedi Master, Jedi Grand Master, Jedi Grand Master Plus. No one is gonna tell him otherwise.
>in a decade or two ill be able to call myself the grandmaster hetrosexual
oh shit
Because it didn’t take nearly as much back when Lucas wrote the OT.
need Luke version of this
He's a Mary Sue.
He did some exercise and practice and then left to be chased around the room by Vader for several hours while Palpatine giggled. His victory wasn't in battle, it was his emotional plea to Vader.
He defeated Vader in their duel, you dumb frick. He then defeated Palpatine by throwing down his weapon and choosing death. Palpatine literally wanted Luke to strike Palpatine down so he could take over his body. His refusal to do so was the victory.
>Victory wasn’t in battle
- blows up the Death Star
- leads a group of 4 people against the most powerful Criminal Syndicate in the Galaxy and wipes them all out
- defeats Vader handily in Lightsaber duel
How much is Disney paying you?
He obviously rushed through the training, just like JK Rowling rushed through writing one of the dullest franchises in the history of movie franchises. Each episode following the boy wizard and his pals from Hogwarts Academy as they fight assorted villains has been indistinguishable from the others. Aside from the gloomy imagery, the series’ only consistency has been its lack of excitement and ineffective use of special effects, all to make magic unmagical, to make action seem inert.
Perhaps the die was cast when Rowling vetoed the idea of Spielberg directing the series; she made sure the series would never be mistaken for a work of art that meant anything to anybody, just ridiculously profitable cross-promotion for her books. The Harry Potter series might be anti-Christian (or not), but it’s certainly the anti-James Bond series in its refusal of wonder, beauty and excitement. No one wants to face that fact. Now, thankfully, they no longer have to.
>a-at least the books were good though
"No!"
The writing is dreadful; the book was terrible. As I read, I noticed that every time a character went for a walk, the author wrote instead that the character "stretched his legs."
I began marking on the back of an envelope every time that phrase was repeated. I stopped only after I had marked the envelope several dozen times. I was incredulous. Rowling's mind is so governed by cliches and dead metaphors that she has no other style of writing. Later I read a lavish, loving review of Harry Potter by the same Stephen King. He wrote something to the effect of, "If these kids are reading Harry Potter at 11 or 12, then when they get older they will go on to read Stephen King." And he was quite right. He was not being ironic. When you read "Harry Potter" you are, in fact, trained to read Stephen King.
>Ulysses Middle Tier
>Atlas Shrugged High Tier
Holy frick, you’re inferior
He’s the most powerful person in the history of the galaxy. That’s why
he was jesus
Yoda gave him a personal instrumental score that helped him force move large objects.
DAA DA DAA DA DA DA DAAAAAA DO DOOOOO
>ugly son
How did Vader guess Luke met Obi Wan? Stereotypical characters
Well, I'd imagine it was when Luke yelled "No!" after Vader vaporized Obi-Wan.
the star wars formula deteriorates after a new hope
Are people really arguing over Luke force choking a couple of guards at jabba's palace ACKSHULLY makes him a sith lord? What was he supposed to do?
>Oh I'm sorry I'll wait for an invitation...
>Nothing personnel jabba *teleports*
If it makes you feel better he didn't kill them, he just choked them out (unlike Vader who makes sure that whoever he Force chokes actually does). Even though it wouldn't matter if he killed them because jabba's guards are for all intents and purposes evil (they willingly serve a known slaver and crime boss) and would not let Luke into the palace without violence. Not to mention that jabba doesn't care of a couple of gamorrean guards die. Would you have preferred he just merk them then and there with his light saber and ruin the whole plan of minimal casualties? Maybe it's just a change in culture of OT vs Disneywars where the protag fights against an unstoppable force and uses the power of Deus ex machina or lazy writing to end up persevering in the end?
>the whole plan of minimal casualties?
Don't they blow up Jabba's Sail Barge with a bunch of people on it?
It was out of necessity given that the Jedi order was dead, and he was already an adult. Luke was sort of an emergency and the last hope of the Jedi. This is why it's more tense in ROTJ because Luke's training was rushed, and it's a harder tell if he will be good enough.
>An Emergency
Yoda and Obi-Wan hid him and watched over him for his entire life. He was their main plan for decades. It’s just that Obi Wan decided to let him have a normal childhood
He used a montage.
i dont remember luke having that pony tail
He was born with Divine Pure Yang Immortal Body physique and can cultivate four times as quickly with half the effort.
I'm sorry
Unban me
holy shit dumbasses, Luke is the origina incel. he's a OG incel wizard
The jedi order had fallen and Yoda decided to cut out all the stupid pointless teachings that caused Anakin to go nuts in the first place.
we went larp mode when he started wearing all black and acting holy than thou