I haven't read the books and I'm sure the TV series will eventually explain it (unless we get D&Ded again) but realistically speaking, if there was a superadvanced alien race on their way to Earth in 400 years with two unstoppable supercomputers slowing the progress of humanity, is there any way to come out on top or are we completely fricked?
>put a nuke in earth's core
>if we lose we blow up the planet so they get fricked
it's that easy
A single nuke would do absolutely nothing to the Earth's core
calm down hugo chavez
nice joke
i dont remember what his plan was. Wasnt he going to nuke mercury? or was he just staging them there? been awhile since ive read
Yea one of the sword holders wanted to exhaust Earth resources by building thousands of hydrogen bombs which would be planted on Mercury. As a deterrence, they would detonate the bombs, causing Mercury to plummet into the sun, which would cause the sun to destabilize, fricking up the solar system. When exposed by his Wallbreaker, he threatened the UN with a dead-man’s switch on his vitals that would trigger a nuke underneath New York. UN didn’t call his bluff so he got his ass out of there and went back to Venezuela where he got literally lynched.
He had the right idea since Luo Ji did expand on that. But his idea was dumb in a few ways. First, blowing up the solar system is not MAD. It’s just fricking up the solar system, leaving the Trisolaran home unaffected. Second, there were not enough resources on earth for the amount of bombs he wanted to build. Finally, confirmed by Trisolarans, Mercury falling into the sun would have no effect on the sun cause the sun is the sun.
You might get to negotiate just a little parcel of Earth to be kept as a reservation. The ayys would rather you blow up earth than humanity get entirely left alone to enjoy earth as you’re a threat and they need at least a portion of the planet to survive.
By the time we’d set up those facilities, the ayys would be able to counter with additional sophons. There’s no inherent limit on sophons, they’re just an expensive ballache for the homeworld ayys.
In the books the sophons are a bit more limited. Putting written text into people's eyes was basically the limit of what they can directly do to a person physiologically. They a problem because anything put into a computer can be read and sent to the trisolarans or the systems can be hacked and any communication human to human can be watched.
In the books that is essentially one of the wallfacer plans (build a big enough nuke to destroy earth then polish hostage them) when people find out they lynch him.
Realistically they'd just send a RKV and wipe us all out within 4 years of first contact. Everything in the series is just for the sake of "yeah humans can't possibly win but oh wait if we asspull this and asspull this and the ayys are moronic, yay, we won!".
>we won
we don't win though
It actually makes a lot of sense. The same reason America doesn't nuke the middle east -> because then the resources would be worthless and they would be rules of a fricked up crater and it would be more work for them in the long run to rebuild everything.
How fast are the sophons again? Are they bound by the laws of our universe so they can't surpass the speed of light (which would take the trip from Earth to Mars in 3 minutes) or since they are mass-less, they can exceed it? Why wouldn't they just blow up any ship leaving Earth's orbit?
They can move at the speed of light IIRC, while neither the humans nor the aliens have yet developed a means of lightspeed travel
The initial Trisolaran fleet can hit 1% lightspeed. After the Great Ravine, Earth fleet can hit 10% lightspeed. After curvature propulsion is invented, lightspeed is achievable. Not sure why Trisolarans didn't put curvature propulsion tech on any of the fleets. Maybe cause you can't put that shit on a massive fleet ship. It's gotta be a smaller vessel.
>Not sure why Trisolarans didn't put curvature propulsion tech on any of the fleets
IIRC it leaves signs and travelling to earth with FTL would signal every other species in the neighbourhood to come blow both planets up.
During the deterrence era the trisolarans had something of a renaissance because of their proximity to human culture. They began to value the individual more and that let them accelerate their tech development significantly. When they sent the initial fleet they had .1c capability. The second fleet had the curvature drive and lightspeed.
This is true but they left a starting buffer zone big enough not to draw attention to trisolaris. They never arrived at their intended destination but they would have done the same with Earth to mask the location of the planet.
When the message is sent out the prime universe is literally dying and it's just the folks who are left trying to make it all restart. It's like two 18-year olds fighting over a million dollars versus two 80-year olds fighting over $5. Killing each other isn't worth it anymore at that point. Besides, everybody who made it to the end got their name on a high score list.
>It's like two 18-year olds fighting over a million dollars versus two 80-year olds fighting over $5. Killing each other isn't worth it anymore at that point. Besides, everybody who made it to the end got their name on a high score list.
shill, you gotta stop using these dumb analogies, the book gives no indication how old the intergalactic society is.
It's not about how old something is. It's about how much time it has left and how much it stands to lose. It's far easier for an alien civ to tolerate giving up its own interests for the greater good when they're going to be annihilated soon anyways due to the inevitable death of the universe.
>the inevitable death of the universe.
which was going to happen whether they fought each other or not. By the end of the story characters are literally millions of years old, with many more millions of years or perhaps billions of years left to live. The issue is that there basically is no threat actual threat other than what was going to happen anyway. In english your first language?
sophons aren't massless, they're just protons turned into computers, they move at almost-lightspeed
>mass-less
"massless" particles go the speed of light. adding "mass" is an impediment to motion.
>Why wouldn't they just blow up any ship leaving Earth's orbit?
it's a lot simpler than that. they could screw up the senses of everyone on earth and get us to kill ourselves off very easily, leaving a pristine world to inhabit. This is why the books and shows are dumb from the very beginning. Just go from point A to point B and never mind any other inhabited planets.
The entire book series is based on a moronic premise.
>The same reason America doesn't nuke the middle east -> because then the resources would be worthless and they would be rules of a fricked up crater and it would be more work for them in the long run to rebuild everything.
Why would America want to nuke a controlled and lucrative opposition?
>The same reason America doesn't nuke the middle east -> because then the resources would be worthless and they would be rules of a fricked up crater and it would be more work for them in the long run to rebuild everything.
You are moronic
Sophons are basically just a proton so they can't effect anything in the macro-world other than projecting stuff in people's eyes, hacking/surveilling stuff and messing with particle accelerators. They can move at light speed cause they're pretty much massless cause again, they're just a proton. But that's it.
That TV shit in the movie, them hacking everything simultaneously, them unfolding into 2d very publicly, etc. It's show stuff and opens up a lot of plot holes. In the book it's mentioned they don't unfold to 2d publicly cause they can very easily be destroyed by a nuke or even conventional explosive attacks.
Realistically they'd just build O'Neill cylinders rather than embarking on a 400 year journey just to sit in another gravity well.
Precisely. We're let to believe these frickers can take a proton and in the act of unfolding it store a planet-sized computer inside it, but they're incapable of building habitats? That's near-future shit.
Oh they totally have space habitats. You just can’t beat a continuous stable era planet.
>Realistically they'd just send a RKV
That's not an option since they explictly want to live on Earth. Their goal isn't to kill humanity, it's to take the planet for themselves AND kill humanity.
>have the science and energy required to travel massive interstellar distances
>not just creating your own planet from scratch with a dyson sphere
i never got why the trisolarans even wanted the rock that is earth, isnt that kind of an asspull itself?
They have limited time, and Earth is the nearest habitable planet. Also the Dark Forest principle, they know Earth's is in a safe zone, just parking a new planet randomly might get them discovered easily.
Spoilers - humanity settles on a mutually-assured-destruction scenario where they threaten to reveal the alien planet's location to other galactic civilizations that would destroy it, this keeps the peace for several decades but ultimately fails and both humanity and the San-Ti are wiped out by more advanced alien civs
>but ultimately fails
because of a woman
It was inevitably going to fail, putting the future of humanity in the hands of a single person is a massive failure point. Ultimately it was a woman who doomed humanity, but it wasn't the person who succeeded Luo Ji as the Swordholder, it was Ye Wenjie who contacted the aliens in the first place despite one of the aliens warning her not to
I think it's kind of ironic. Humanity is like a teenager who gets into a heated argument with someone online and they have the means to track them down and beat their ass for shittalk. Almost poetic when you think about it really.
>Ye Wenjie
again, a woman
>It was inevitably going to fail
If you ever put a woman in charge. Yes
>Luo Ji
>Ye Wenjie
How the frick do you people remember these mickey mouse names?
Not a zoomer, so my memory capacity hasn't been fried by sensory overload
Jesus fricking Christ. Go easy on the moron. LMAO.
When you spend 8-12 hours reading them over and over again you end up remembering them. Shocking.
The same way I remember names like Rand al'Thor or Drizzt Do'Urdern or James T. Kirk or Barry Allen.
I'm not an adhd brainlet with the mental capacity of a goldfish.
When reading the books I essentially mentally Anglicized the names in my head.
>Luo Ji = Louis
>Ye Wenxie = Wendy
>Cheng Xin = Christy
I did this for most major Chinese characters excluding Da Shi and AA. When reading I still imagined the characters as Chinese in every way but their names, which was easy for me because I work with a number of Chinese immigrants and first generation Chinese people who very frequently self-Anglicize their own names.
The copy I own has a list of characters at the beginning, it was really helpful.
It helps to be white. Ben Franklin was right, non Anglos are hopeless.
It def wasn't gonna fail. Ayys calculated the chances of each swordholder legit pushing the button. It was 90% for Luo Ji. Cheng I think was like 10% and the whole-time, the plan was to get humanity to elect Cheng Xin as swordholder and then attack. It's meant to show that Ayys did learn scheming from humanity and the long con was to lul humanity into a false sense of security and then attack as soon as Cheng Xin gets elected as swordholder. IIRC, they attack literally 2 minutes after the handover ceremony.
They calculated Wade's changes of pressing the button too. It was 100%. They were really scared of Wade.
To be fair, it was Mao who decided to make China hell on Earth and then approved the idea of contacting other sentient species. They were kinda lucky they broadcasted to the San-Ti first, even though Ye ended up inviting them over. What if they contacted some other species that just decided to wipe out humanity without so much as a hello? The commies were playing with nuclear fire without knowing it was hot, with or without Ye.
The ayys were moronic for testing the woman anyway, she still had a 10% chance of pushing the button, which is massive to stake your entire existence on. Especially since Trisolarian propaganda was so wildly successful on earth that the humans would probably willingly enslave themselves after a couple more peaceful generations.
I think the Trisolarans were meant to be belligerent and paranoid to the point of stupidity. Yes, even with a woman in charge, it was not worth the risk. Like starting a knife fight with someone over $100. Even if you're confident you can win, things can always go to shit. Which they did.
But it fits with the history of their civilization honestly.
Things went to shit by pure chance. Blue Space discoverer a 4d fragment which then they were able to defeat the droplets and send out the transmission thru gravity. Ayys had it in the bag up until then. Decades of planning and propaganda delivered them an indecisive sword holder.
what a fricking gay story lol
>decides this based upon s a one sentence summation of a complicated, 3 book story, by some guy on the internet
he's... not wrong, tho??
What's a story you like so I can sum it up in one sentence and then call it fricking gay based upon that entirely accurate one sentence summation
Book of the New Sun
Um, you’re Chinese.
I'm beginning to think that all scifi is garbage at this point
Our solar system getting wiped out by Super Ayys turning it into anime was peak moronation.
The point of the 2d shit is that not only interstellar tech has weaponized laws of physics, but also its supposed to be unimaginable to us that someone can 2-dimensionalize the solar system. Like literally, even tho Yuan Tianming pretty much tells us that 2-d weapons are real, we still can't comprehend it. In the end, that's what gets us.
the brain of the dude is going to come back with superpowers isn't it?
in book 3 the ayys capture his brain and rebuild his body and he lives with them as they're running far away from earth. he tells stories to his love interest with coded messages on how to create a light speed travel drive
Which she then prevents wade from building en masseuse a ftl fleet dooming all of earth humanity (except conveniently her) to death in the dimensional strike when the solar systems 3 dimensional space is collapsed into 2 dimensions.
Even so the point stands they won't be allowed to show a feminist society as anything other than a glorious utopia.
The feminized society WAS a glorious utopia. It was the single best time to be a human in the entire 400+ years that the series covers. Which brings me back to my previous post. The men being feminized was not why society picked Cheng as the swordholder. It was because they had become weak, which along with the feminization were both side effects of how easy and decadent life had become.
I legitimately do not understand why people think the author is some misogynist criticizing femininity. Cheng and AA are both the last survivors of the solar humans, they both get their happy endings. Literally everyone tells Cheng that she did nothing wrong even after the Australia incident. Despite this, she feels enough guilt to psychosomatically blind herself. Wade, your hero, defers to her judgment instead of shooting her on the spot. Because he thinks she knows better than he does. Humans make it to the end of the universe. She makes the selfless decision to restore the mass of her pocket dimension for the universal rebirth. Cheng is consistently portrayed as a wonderful person.
You're wasting your time. All these morons can do is parrot 'women bad'
Femininity is inherently weak.
That's the subtext between the cucked men of the future vs Da Shi and Wade.
That's a simplistic reading. The point is that femininity is weak but nurturing, and masculinity is strong but destructive. This goes back to the family unit where the man interfaces with other families and society (outward) and the woman tends to the household (inward). Both are needed.
In theory you could see the necessity of the men as a consequence of the fallen universe, possibly ruined by some moronic men in the higher-D universes. But it's not feminist at all, it's traditionalist if anything.
Dark forest theory is itself kinda moronic.
Game theory experiments show that the most successful players of prisoners dilemma follow a tit for tat strategy with a random forgiveness probability of 10% (meaning the player will randomly forgive 10% of transgressions against them)
Ayyy's would figure that shit out as well.
>Literally everyone tells Cheng that she did nothing wrong even after the Australia incident
I the reader can tell she fricked up I don't need to be fed my opinion to me from a character to hold it.
Sure. And you're more than entitled to your opinion. But to read the book and still think that the author is condemning women is stupid.
I never said the author was condemning women. He showed a feminist society is too weak to defend itself. I said Netflix will never let DnD show that as the Hollywood left bubble will never permit that.
I hate cheng xin as a character but the author wrote her well. Book 3 is a Sci fi version of crabs in a bucket. Wade is the crab trying to climb out and cheng and the feminized earth society are the crabs pulling him back down. (Most infuriating is that after dooming earth humanity she is rewarded with survival)
There's little more frustrating in story than watching competent people get sabotaged or incompetant people fail upwards. It's why we hate skylar white.
>She makes the selfless decision to restore the mass of her pocket dimension for the universal rebirth.
So she dooms humanity in the pocket dimension, fricks over humans a 2nd time ffs is she screaming "yass queen" as she does it? frick this gay ass book.
you have no idea what you're talking about
do they all die in the pocket dimension or not?
The last inhabitants of the universe form a coalition to make a new universe and send a message to the people hiding in the pocket dimensions to send their shit back to the main universe because it needs x amount of mass to big bang again. Cheng and the man she is with choose to do so. The next part I genuinely did not understand, so I may be wrong. But they leave the pocket universe with Sophon the robot waifu and there are very few inhabitable planet left. They choose one to go to and Sophon says she will protect them. This could mean that they either lived through the death of the old universe and are settling on a young planet in the new one or that they are at the end of days in the old universe and are settling on a difficult planet there. I personally subscribe to the latter idea.
>dimensional strike when the solar systems 3 dimensional space is collapsed into 2 dimensions.
so everyone dies or do they exist as 2d flatlanders?
All dead. Higher-D creatures cannot exist in lower-D space unless they physically modify their entire species first. Which is what the big boy civs do because every time they send out a giga nuke the universe gets smaller faster.
My favorite chapter in book 3 is the one where the ayylmao sends the 2D-ifier to Earth. He's a pathetic low-level wagie and he's originally going to just destroy the sun but he knows humans could be hiding in the outer ranges of the solar system. So he asks permission to use the 2D-ifiying device and his boss says yes immediately. He asks "aren't we supposed to be careful with these?" and his boss says "no frick it we're all going to be 2D soon anyways."
oh I see well that a shame but is it exlpanied why the super advanced ayys want to be 2d, what is advantages?
It's a race to the bottom. The story essentially goes:
>Universe starts with 11+ dimensions
>First civs to complete their tech trees get control over universal constants. Their greatest weapon is to fold space into a lower dimension, destroying any higher-dimensional beings incapable of living in the lower dimension. However the process spreads indefinitely and is irreversible. The universe is huge so this takes a long ass time.
>Because of the Dark Forest Theory, all of the big boy civs get in fights with each other and send pre-emptive strikes at fledgling civs that are developing tech quickly. The universe is "dimensioning down" faster and faster as the weapons are used more liberally.
>big boy civs develop the ability to modify themselves to be lower-dimensional beings, losing much of their senses and perception but gaining the ability to survive the universe downsizing
By the time of the story, the vast majority of the universe is in 3D. There are some 4D pockets left that are rapidly shrinking. Once everything hits 1d, meaning reality can only exist in a single spot, the mass of the universe will implode on itself because of the density and cause a new big bang creating a new 11d universe from scratch.
So no alien race WANTS to become 2D. They are forced to because they know that the unlimited intergalactic warfare will inevitable put them in a position where it will become necessary to do so.
This entire series is window dressing for the author wanting to autistically explain this version of the universe at length.
>It's a race to the bottom
Sounds horrifying
>This entire series is window dressing for the author wanting to autistically explain this version of the universe at length.
I will view his works with a new found appreciation, thanks for the response.
I understand and thereby prolong their civilization, but the inevitable is still going to happen? I see it more as progressing enough to create a dimensional pocket for themselves.
Ok thanks so the rest are still safe in pocket dimension my pressure spiked for a sec back there.
>Ok thanks so the rest are still safe in pocket dimension my pressure spiked for a sec back there.
they are in super secret pocket dimesnions as well as living in the "regular" universe. the crux is the people in the pocket dimensions are basically immortal gods in their untouchable dimension.
do you see how more and more ridiculous and moronic this story sounds?
>do you see how more and more ridiculous and moronic this story sounds?
Yes! it's the fantasy elements that might translate better for a Chinese audience which most else will struggle with.
The advantage is they eliminate all competing civs that don't have the tech (or the balls) to make themselves 2d
Except they don't because millions of perhaps billions of aliens are super secret sub space dimensions living virtually as immortal gods. And the 2d aliens most likely get wiped out themselves at some point.
The story is so fricking stupid.
Super advanced ayys would obviously know that 2D > 3DPD.
He comes back normal, but cancer-free. Ends up spending decades coming up with stories with coded scientific messages in them about dark forest strikes, possible defenses and light speed travel
The Asian doctor talked about building a particle accelerator on the moon and I think that's the way to do it. Make scientific research facilities on the moon and Mars. Perform research simultaneously on Earth, moon, and Mars. The sophons can't be three places at once.
how the frick do they "stop science"
Assassinate the leading minds about to make a breakthrough in a particular field? Not that hard when you have access to wikipedia, the database of where everyone lives, and you can be there inside of 30 seconds.
They were interfering with readings from particle accelerators around the world, leading to nonsensical data. It makes advancements in physics research impossible.
ridiculous, experimental particle physics has basically reached it's end even without ayys
they make Trump president
The Large Hadron Collider is literally 20 years old and no massive breakthrough has come out of it, and there's no indication that repeating the same experiment for another 100 years will give any significant data
The author is a moron and just assumes we are like, leveling up physics and the more colliders we have the more we level up untill we hit endgame
In reality, nothing gamechanging will happen as there was no indication of this being possible in the last fricking 20 years
>The author is a moron and just assumes we are like, leveling up physics and the more colliders we have the more we level up untill we hit endgame
Absolutely nothing like this is the case
Don't talk about books you haven't read, it just makes you look like a huge fricking moron.
Black person you are a brainlet
The author clearly thinks the particle colliders are the gateway of future science and literally developed a fantasy deus ex-machina that specifically targets particle colliders
Go get some brain cells or something
Jesus
Yup, specifically targeting particle colliders and absolutely no other scientific fields at all
It's not like the entire book/show starts with SCIENTISTS IN EVERY FIELD KILLING THEMSELVES BECAUSE THEIR FIELD WAS TARGETTED
Also, yes, in this story, utilizing advanced properties of subatomic particles is possible and requires knowledge. It's a science fiction book that goes millions of years into the future. You're the brainlet for applying this science fiction to actual reality. Especially when the author constantly talks about how we persue false fields - exactly like is routine in theoretical physics
I promise you anon you are punching way above your weight. It's actually that you're too dumb to understand. Look within for the brainlet. Nowhere NEAR as smart as you think you are.
they also frick with scientists working on nano-tech.
Humanity creates a huge fleet with 10% lightspeed capability, with hydrogen bombs, gamma lasers. They just send a tiny probe that literally goes through the fleet like cardboard.
Applied physics can only get you so far. Trisolarans are so technologically advanced cause a lot of their tech has transcended theoretical physics. We're still stuck at the theoretical part. And even then, the droplet that is virtually indestructible due to strong interaction at the atomic and macro level just doesn't make sense to us.
particle acceleratos are supposed to reveal something unexpected and paradigm changing about the quatum world that allows some technologies to be possible.
>particle acceleratos are supposed to reveal something unexpected
Yes, in the minds of A FRICKING CHINK THAT JUST HEARD ABOUT IT WHEN THEY WERE BUILDING IT WHILE HE WAS WRITING THE BOOK
It's been fricking 20 years and nothing happened
Embarrassing projection.
Stop fricking coping
Particles accelerators did shit
The chink expected to do more, and they didn't
Now, in hindsight, it looks moronic
Leave the sophons fricking up particle accelerators
Leave the fricking particles just frick around with null tech
time traveler here, you're wrong
>making shit up to make an argument
kek good one
It's very simple anon.
The trisolarans stop the particle colliders from giving usable results in 1 part of a much larger overall plan that is being executed among the sophons and the group of rogue humans that are on the aliens side and trying to actively bring down humanity.
The trisolarans do not know what will happen if they allow the particle colliders to continue, but they are worried that it will somehow help humanity understand more complex ideas of how the universe works and how the universe used to be 10 dimensions but is now only mostly 3 but also parts are 4 and parts are also 2.
In addition to stopping the results of the colliders, they also manipulate top scientists in dozens of fields into killing themselves to halt their progression on nanotech, farming, and about 20 other fields that could eventually lead to humans getting the upper hand on the trisolaran tech.
The trisols don't have some kind of foresight knowledge of how humanities science will evolve, so they're stopping it at every turn they can. because again, stopping the particle colliders is just a small part in a much larger plan.
>one sophon is bait killing one scientist at the time (Unless he calls the bluff and nothing happens)
>the other is just toying around with dead tech
Truly, the advance civilization
>make up a fake stupid thing that isn't happening
>wow this fake stupid thing I made up that isn't happening is dumb, this story is stupid!
Genius.
Reminds of how you talked about how much you love sucking wieners. maybe stop bring that up so much. Please stop talking about how you give blowjobs, we don't want to hear it.
>The trisolarans do not know what will happen if they allow the particle colliders to continue
They know exactly what will happen. Science builds upon itself. Certain discoveries are not possible without previous discoveries having already been made.
They KNOW what the next step is in solving important theory and they KNOW that particle colliders are required for it. Fricking up the colliders is absolutely the main purpose of the sophons.
They also work with the ETO to stop scientists and generally promote anti-intellectualism across the world but those are minor duties.
Won't AI just simulate particle collisions in the future or something?
>le magic AI
AI is what nanotech was 20 years ago, can't wait for the AI coffee grinder marketing
They frick with any scientist working on anything that might damage trisolarans in the long run. They also frick with particle accelerators.
tell people to distance, mask up, and boost
>dude if we make science on the moon we can do two experiments at exactly the same time and the sophons can't stop us!
*changes your clock by 3.5 seconds*
They infect scientists with the woke
This series is increasingly dumber shit until the universe resets.
Deploy an incredibly intricate and complicated matrix of ink covered nukes around the sun that will explode in a certain sequence revealing the locations of earth and the San-Ti's star system to all the other hostile species in the galaxy
Do they explain why the aliens will destroy us if we respond to the message? How is that idea handled in the book?
Which aliens?
The Trisolarans specifically come from a solar system that is constructed in such a way that their homeworld will eventually be destroyed by one of the stars it orbits. So they're desperate to find a new homeworld and decide to colonize Earth when the message comes in.
The other alien civilizations are acting preemptively to snuff out competing civilizations whenever they're detected. "Growth is infinite but resources are finite", so every galactic civilization is incentivized to destroy the others first or risk being destroyed for the resources in their system. The book uses the metaphor of the galaxy as a dark forest filled with predators - you don't know where they are, but you know they are all around you, so your only way to survive is to remain undetected, and to immediately strike and kill any predator you encounter before he can kill you.
Ahh okay. Thanks lads
>The Trisolarans specifically come from a solar system that is constructed in such a way that their homeworld will eventually be destroyed by one of the stars it orbits
So basically every solar system out there?
In their case it's more imminent than normal, and they have no way to predict exactly when it's going to happen because of the eponymous three-body problem
the solution it presents for fermi's paradox is that there are lots of super advanced species, but resources in the universe are finite, so that once your location becomes universally known it is statistically likely that at least one of all those species will seek and destroy you. it calls this "the dark forest" concept of the whole universe being like a dark forest full of hunters
the book explores some interesting ideas about the impossibility of becoming both known in the vast universe and making it clear that you are no threat so that not one of the millions of civilizations will take the effort to nuke you
Why does no species take the ICOG pill and just spread across the galaxy like vermin so they can't be taken out without destroying the entire galaxy? Instead of just hiding on a planet like cucks. The enemy can't destroy you if you're literally everywhere.
Because they don't have lightspeed travel in this story and it's extremely onerous to maintain a united civilization across a galaxy without that technology. Your civilization would just splinter into separate groups that have no connection with each other, probably making it easier to divide and conquer
>Because they don't have lightspeed travel in this story
So? Doesn't stop the Trisolarans migrating.
>it's extremely onerous to maintain a united civilization across a galaxy without that technology. Your civilization would just splinter into separate groups that have no connection with each other
So? Your species still becomes the dominant life form in the galaxy because everyone else is cowering in fear inside their star systems. It might not be the same polity, but your species overall wins.
>probably making it easier to divide and conquer
You are literally harder to "conquer" (but here it's getting wiped out) if you've become an interstellar civilization found everywhere in the galaxy than you are just hiding in one system. If the mono-system civilization gets discovered, they get wiped out in one go. If the chad ICOG-pilled species that has thousands of civilizations inhabiting millions of star systems has one of their systems discovered, that system gets wiped out, the species as a whole is basically undamaged, and now multiple empires of that species, noticing that their kinsmen were attacked, go on the warpath.
The whole "hide in your star system and pray you aren't noticed" dark forest theory is moronic. It's always going to be better to spread out as much as possible. But it makes sense that a Chinese writer would hate the idea since their civilization revolved around not venturing out to explore the world.
There is no way to beat them. The books show that we have a way of holding them off, but they cannot be beaten once their Sophons are on Earth.
D&D will probably change the story because the ending of the series is absolutely bizarre.
Multiple civs do this and survive until the end of the universe, but you need to create lightspeed ships first.
>The books show that we have a way of holding them off, but they cannot be beaten once their Sophons are on Earth.
YOU JUST CAN'T BEAT THEM... BECAUSE YOU CANT OKAY??!?!
even with our limited scopes in tech what if we just moved to mars... oh no another 400 years before maybe the next ship that will wipe out humanity.
>even with our limited scopes in tech what if we just moved to mars
OK. The aliens now conquer Earth and Mars with their significantly more advanced technology. What now?
So the aliens will invest more resources of their fight to keep limited resources around on a few million humans who haven't even scratched the cosmic surface of resources? Doesn't that seem self defeating?
>fight
that's the thing, it's not a fight
Once they have infiltrated the earth and stopped its development of physics, they know for a FACT that they will win. They wouldn't send a fleet on a 400-year journey if they weren't absolutely sure of it.
There's a reason that they call humans "bugs" after the canal incident. No minor victory will change the fact that they will be crushed under the alien boot. There is a problem that humanity needs to solve in order to not be bugs, and it's not about physics.
The aliens are sending a fleet. What is moving to things Mars going to accomplish? You think they'll need to send another fleet from their home system instead of redirecting the fleet that's already in the solar system? Humanity can't beat the Trisolarans. In the books, they find a different solution.
>Humanity can't beat the Trisolarans.
This is actually wrongish. They send the Sophons to lock down our science because we can beat them otherwise. And spoilers but we find a way past the sophons half way before their fleet gets here.
Humans are actually a danger to Trisolaris because our technological progression is exponential while progress on Trisolaris is limited by chaotic eras - they progress slower, even though they are way further ahead.
By the time their fleet arrives, they fear that we will beat them, and furthermore they are worried that we know their location and what will happen after we beat their fleet.
Because of the speed of light your civs would be thousands of years of travel apart from each other, if not worse, and communication would be severely lagged. They would split into separate cultures and then become paranoid that the other civs might first-strike them. Essentially the book claims that doing this would just spawn more hostile civilizations who know where you live, and the speed of light makes cooperation impossible.
This isn't true for the san-ti though, they were nearby enough that coexistence was possible, especially once they get into the solar system. they were just buttholes
If your civ spreads out to the galaxy in splinters, those splinters will become their own civ and they will eventually hit each other with a dark forest strike. Same thing as Battle of Darkness.
this doesnt happen in the books, in fact the opposite happens.
1. Why would they? They're all the same species.
2. Even if there's civil war and friendly fire, the doctrine of rapid expansion to everywhere you can reach means that the proportion of life in the galaxy that is your species will increase.
>1. Why would they? They're all the same species.
humans literally branch out and start an intergalactic society and don't attack each other even after being separated from each other by millions/billions of year. you're arguing with a mid wit who is defending a novel he doesn't even understand.
Battle of Darkness. Like… it’s literally in the book. And humanity in Planet blue/gray system isn’t advanced enough to do dark forest strikes. And at that point it’s only been a few centuries.
>(unless we get D&Ded again)
This is the ONLY way to save the show. Holy frick season 1 was boring.
I just finished watching this show a few days ago. I was just wondering, the aliens were an awful lot like the ones from Galaxy Quest, being incapable of understanding lies or fiction. So wouldn't these aliens have had a similar experience where they'd scan our Internet and see Star Trek or whatever and think its real? Wouldn't that throw a wrench in their plans if they saw something fictional that was distressing?
>I was just wondering
That was your first mistake, you aren't supposed to think about any of the concepts in this series. You are just supposed to "ooooo" and "ahhhh" at how smart everything is.
it doesn't matter because eventually third secret aliens will come and dimension flatten the entire solar system, ending the human race (minus a splinter group who go on to do nothing, because they live on a faraway planet sealed with a magic spacetime bubble until the entire universe ends)
warhammer 40k is unironically a better sci-fi story about humanity, because it has the audacity to let the BASED characters like Wade win instead of putting chink pussy on a pedestal
this entire series is /r/asianmasculinity tier
>WH40k
edgelord likes the edgelord character, classic
Book Wade is a monster. It looks like they're doing something different with show Wade.
>putting chink pussy on a pedestal
the author clearly shits on femininity at every step
pretty sure he spells out directly at one point the idea that men became less androgynous as a sign the world was ready to take a threat
>minus a splinter group who go on to do nothing, because they live on a faraway planet sealed with a magic spacetime bubble until the entire universe ends
I thought humanity set up multiple colonies in space though? They even made friends with the surviving trisolarians
They did, and it's flat out stated that humanity stuck around for so long in the timespan of galactic civilization that some version of our language was included in the transmission of the final message broadcast to the universe to send all matter back to the prime universe from all the pocket universes.
the last few chapters of the 3rd book were so fricking stupid. once they left pluto it went from 8/10 to 2/10
>san-ti
I read the books but didn't watch the Netflix show, did they rename the trisolarans? Wouldn't be surprised
yes. They say it means 3 stars or some shit in chinese. I guess having a bunch of actors saying Trisolarans all the time sounded dumb.
Aight I suppose that's not particularly egregious then. I'm planning on pirating the show at some point but my expectations for the adaptation are pretty low.
It's literal garbage, save yourself a few hours. Luo Ji is a Black person, Beihai is a jeet.
The series does stick really close to the plot of the novels, it is telling the story chronologically so the characters from all 3 books are kinda lumped together in the same place at the same time, but they do a good enough job keeping the different plot threads separate. There is a lot of race swapping so be prepared for that. If you enjoyed the books you might get some enjoyment out of the show. I personally thought the books were beyond moronic, and thus had 0 expectations for the show, but it is competently made so its easy enough to watch. If you're looking for some brainless scifi, you could do worse.
It’s better than the Chinese tv series which was mostly just watching people in meetings in conference rooms like you’re at work and it’s better than the book, but the first book was a bad translation. Second book was better.
So yeah this Netflix series has been the best western version so far. I love how the polchuds are supporting the Chinese version. Bunch of chink-loving chuds.
>Second book was better.
The 2nd book is basically just a series of scooby-doo style monologues, where people just explain moronic plans and list off clues and evidence to people who don't even care. still probably the best book of the trilogy
Technically san-ti (ren) was the original name, but it's literally just "three star" in chinese. What's stupid is the show still says "trisolar day" for the VR shit.
Wouldn't it make more sense for the aliens to basically put big ass guns telling humans to stay in their solar system or better just grown and enslave humanity to mine the vast majority of resources known throughout the galaxy?
The whole story keeps reminding me of reddit brain "dude the world is over populated I live in LA and it's crowded af fr fr no cap. Like unbeatable super computer that's 400 years away sounds so fricking stupid what's to stop races from planet hopping in that large time frame and then just divert the super computer?
Why didn’t the covenant just let humans in?
The show is a turn your brain off and watch kinda thing not an actual "think about things logically" show. Maybe the books do it better but I doubt it, the aliens are just going to win because they are okay?
If the aliens wanted to wipe shit out to save the resources why not just direct a big fricking gun or construct something to direct large amounts of x-rays at the planet they consider bugs? Less resources less associated risk and far faster. It's because the author is a fricking idiot.
I establish Dark Forest Deterrence and then make a law that no woman is ever, ever, EVER allowed to become Swordholder.
If I were a Sophon I would simply spread woke propaganda so that a troony or homosexual becomes Swordholder
literally just leave and start your own civilization somewhere else in the galaxy.
That's what happens
i know
just tell the aliens that they can just find a dark failed star or something and live on habitats in orbit around it while using resources and being impossible to spot by normal astronomical means, instead of coming aaaaaaaaaall the way to earth to die from breathing oxygen and gettin RKV'd by some other race who reads the chinese message from 100 lightyears away
there's seriously no reason for a civilization capable of colonizing other solar systems at .1 C to be planetbound, maybe for speed of development but these frickers have been industrialized for like 1 million years already and know how to play the long game
Aliens have one singular planet in their solar system. Their resources are extremely limited. It takes them a tremendous, painful investment to make the sophons and put their fleet together. That fleet's journey takes them several lifetimes. Our solar system is the closest to theirs, and it's a sure thing. Humans are just bugs.
You want them to essentially tell their people that even though their house is dropping into a sinkhole, they can't move into the nice, vacant one up the road because there are roaches in it.
there's no way a meganuke sent straight at the heart of their fleet wouldnt kill them all. Stupid show
>nuke the void
It's so funny watching the low IQ trying to criticize a book that is significantly higher IQ than them as being stupid
you're the low IQ moron. It would permeate radiation in every direction and if done right cause an electromagnetic pulse disabling all their electronics thereby nullifying their abilities. Stupid book with dozens of plot holes
No problem, you just need to casually make a nuclear explosion bigger than most stars
Again, it's hilarious watching the low IQ thinking they're smart and tackling subject matter written by people significantly smarter than them.
why the frick would an alien race capable of turning a single proton into a sentient supercomputer use fricking 21st century electronics you dumb frick
>turning a single proton into a sentient supercomputer
QRD on how that works?
Just watch this clip. But it's a major spoiler, obviously, so don't watch it if you care to watch this show.
Picture a 10 story apartment building.
Now picture you're able to take that 10 story apartment building, and put each floor side by side as if they were houses. The footprint of the building is now 10x the size it once was.
Next picture standing inside one of those floors, and pushing on the walls to splay them onto the floor. Even more space is needed as there's now the walls and the ceiling and the floor all spread out on the ground
Next picture taking everything that was on the walls or on the floor apart and spreading it all apart as well - the shelves, the toilet, the fridge, your computer, your tv, whatever.
Finally, imagine you did that with every object in every room in every unit on every floor of that 10 floor apartment building.
The space that 10 floor apartment building takes up when splayed out like that is magnitudes more than when it's all put together.
Now imagine instead of dealing with a 10 floor apartment building, you're dealing with a proton which is a 10 dimensional object insofar as the books are concerned. And instead of just spreading it all out and putting it all back together, you spread it all out (across your entire planet) and etch circuitry into it so that it becomes a functioning computer (while still spread out). Once it's a function AI, it can then 'refold' itself back into it's base state of a proton.
So Harry Potter magic then.
Basically, yeah.
It all comes back around and is explained much better in book 3, but a lot of the entire series is just space magic.
It's not a hard scifi series despite some brainlets trying to pass it off as such. It's sci-fantasy through and through.
>fictional science? In my science fiction?
What is it about this show that brings out the most moronic posters?
Thanks for the reply. I was with it 'til 'etch circuitry onto it', because...It isn't matter at that point?Or maybe it is. Or I guess the super-advanced intelligence has some equivalent of modifying its 10-dimensional 'surface' or something.
>.It isn't matter at that point?Or maybe it is
For all intents and purposes it's bullshit space magic. The author explains it in a handwavy way and then doesn't ever really bring it up again.
luo ji gave humanity a golden opportunity but they had to be prepared to destroy earth themselves. they had trisolarian balls in a vice grip if they simply maintained that deterrence long enough.
ultimately they became feminised freaks so chose not to.
*liberates the shit out of the trinisolarans*
>have to use a giant fleet to come to earth
>not just sending big rock to knock the moon into earth or just obliterate the earth with a minimal resources or ability to detect or do anything
>somehow they don't understand how easy this would be with minimal resources
Did the author just watch TTGL and wanted to rip it off worser?
>your planet is fricked, you need a new one
>find one pretty much next door
>destroy it
san ti has fricking nothing over trisolarians
frick team D&D and their shit writing choices
Wait wait I haven't watched the show and haven't read many threads. Did they rename the Trisolarians as the San-Ti?
Kinda? In Chinese, Trisolarian is san ti ren, literally three body people/person. San Ti (also the Tencent version's title) is literally Three Body. Guess they wanted to reference the original Chinese name but in a moronic way
So wait the aliens are constantly spending astronomical amount of resources on fighting near monkey level people... to save resources? Is this just some stupid pseudo intellectual author who wants to b***h about how using oil or some shit is le bad?
what the frick are you talking about
nothing about this is even remotely close to accurate or what's going on or what the story is about
Like it's just wrong on all levels
environmentalists whining about oil are literally the villains lmfao
>comes into thread about subject he knows nothing about
>hey it seems like this thing I know nothing about supports this political thing I don't like, this thing fricking sucks!
>it's not even true
great post.
>So wait the aliens are constantly spending astronomical amount of resources on fighting near monkey level people... to save resources?
The aliens spent nearly all of their planets resources on creating a fleet of 1000 ships capable of interstellar flight, and also creating a number of sentient protons with an Ai inscribed in them (scifi shit involving unfolding dimensions, don't worry about it) to halt humanities scientific progress.
They did so because their planet is in an unstable star system with 3 stars that are in a literal-incalculable orbit which routinely causes extinction level events. In the books it's like 195 different extinctions before the aliens leave their planet, in the show it's like 950.
Their planet was the outer most planet in their star system and slowly 1 by 1 all of the inner planets were either consumed by one of the 3 stars, or was ejected out into the nothingness of space to freeze and crumble into nothing. Which is why they leave their planet in the first place to go to earth and spend all their resources doing so. They also leave behind like 80% of their population in doing so.
>Is this just some stupid pseudo intellectual author who wants to b***h about how using oil or some shit is le bad?
Quite literally the opposite. The group that is helping the aliens take over earth by sabotaging and killing and manipulating governments are quite literally your classic hippy eco terrorists who "just want to save the planet from mankind."
yep, just a matter of time before renewal announcement. Hopefully S2 and S3 so D&D can finish the story like Avatar
Inside of me there are two wolves
One of them is a hardcore Adventist - I welcome our Trisolaran overlords, purge this shithole fricking planet please
The other is a hardcore humanity firster who would fight any alien to the death just so we could have one hood full of Black folk in Chicago if that's all that could be left of Humanity
I also like how we're just pretending the Higgs Boson wasn't confirmed in a particle accelerator
Who knows how many decades of lost science and wasted time and effort if we did not do that
Granted, it's absolutely true physics has major issues (as all science domains do) right now, and I do agree with criticisms - I would not fund more or larger particle accelerators
But I feel like the people making that argument are not smart or knowledgeable enough to be taken seriously. Not exactly nuanced views. More like cynical people who then see failures in a domain and then throw the baby out with the bathwater.
Do what Luo Ji did and just make it so the next Sword Holder isn’t a woman
>heres your femboy swordholder bro
Every science fiction story should end with the destruction of Earth, The Sun, and/or the Solar System.
People get mad about the one that actually does it
I might as well ask here, but there's a part of the book where it's mentioned that by pure coincidence, the universe had the exact right amount of matter, and not one atom more or something
And the implication I got from that was that even though all the pocket universes send their matter back to the prime universe, it will never be enough if even one single atom more leaves the universe, which means that leaving the message behind will actually cause the heat death of the universe rather than rebirth
As in, the message causes the heatdeath
Was this interpretation incorrect? It wasn't explicitly spelled out. It's like it wanted to end on leaving you thinking a message is left for the rebirthed universe but from that one line earlier that stuck in my head, the implication I got was the message causes the heat death rather than a contraction
i dont get that either because first he says every atom matters and then he says well there's probably going to be millions of tons of unreturned mass anyway so whatever. the books had gotten too abstract then for me to be really into it anyway
The book was talking about a critical mass, not that every atom had to come back. Just enough of the pocket dimensions had to be emptied because loads of them had sprung up over the eons, each one taking atoms from the main Universe. The bottle being left behind was a "We are returning almost everything, but we want to leave a message behind that the future universe could find."
Nah it's specifically talking about the critical mass state of the universe.
For simplicity sake, lets assume only 90% of the total matter in the universe was to kickstart the next universe, and at the end of the books, the universe only had 85% of it's matter because the other 15% was in the pocket universes.
The pocket universes would only need to send enough to push that 85% past the 90% threshold, not all of it.
Thanks for the answer, I kind of like my headcannon that trying to leave a message for the rebirthed universe instead causes the heat death and total end of our universe though. Plus it kind of plays to earlier themes about messages and signals being dangerous. Seems kinda like pottery, it rhymes.
>Plus it kind of plays to earlier themes about messages and signals being dangerous.
that's not the point of these moronic books, finish high school
Where did I say that was the point of the books, in any way, shape, or form? Don't tell me to go to high school when you lack extremely basic reading comprehension.
I literally said it seems kinda like pottery, it rhymes. That's it. I never said it was the point of the books. Just an idea I like.
Mongoloid
Low-key agreed. I think he had the idea of the Adam and Eve thing leaving Eden to reset the universe. But he needed the protagonist to get there. That’s why there are concepts that are introduced at the last chapter which causes the characters to get stuck so that he could get everyone where they needed to be. Like death lines. Pocket universes. Etc.
The sophons on the show are too powerful. Why not just completely cover the earth and let humans freeze to death? Why not reflect the sun and burn major cities? Why not constantly mess with computers so they can never be used? They can also cause hallucinations, which could easily be used to have people shoot the wallfacers by mistake.
>in the books (and chinese show, see:
)
The Trisolarans are experimenting with folding and unfolding protons between dimensions
These higher dimensions can have complexity equal to our own universe, and some even host forms of life
But don't worry princips, it's only a 2D plane with no depth. It can't hurt you.
>2D plane with no depth turns into a cosmic-horror eldritch eye and starts reflecting sunlight back onto the surface of Trisolaris, starting to damage the planet
>Trisolaris nukes the frick out of the microcosmos
You're not feeling sentimental because of this, are you, Princeps?
In the long history of scientific progress, every time physicists had protons collide, every time a proton or neutron decays, and every time a high-energy cosmic ray enteres the atmosphere, thousands of miniature universes may be destroyed.
In the netflix version
TRisOlaRiS WaTCheS HuMaNS wITh An EyE
Yeah it's almost as if one is a straight book adaption that is 30+ episodes long and the other is a full series adaption that is only 8 episodes long, 5 of which are dedicated to covering book 1.
Also the show goes into the whole
>every time physicists had protons collide, every time a proton or neutron decays, and every time a high-energy cosmic ray enteres the atmosphere, thousands of miniature universes may be destroyed.
thing when whatsherface has the dinner with Rajs family and talks about eating the Naan.
the episode limit is no reason to make the eye Trisolaran when it was literally their enemy and had nothing to do with them
It's stupid as frick because clearly the writers thought "hey, eyes are symbols of watching! The Trisolarans are watching! give the eye to them!"
It's really dumb as frick, please don't defend it. They should have just cut the cosmic eye if they weren't going to include it properly
>the episode limit is no reason to make the eye Trisolaran when it was literally their enemy and had nothing to do with them
>It's really dumb as frick, please don't defend it. They should have just cut the cosmic eye if they weren't going to include it properly
See this is the problem I have with people like you that are so hard pressed into the source material you can't separate yourself from it.
In the books it's used as a show of force by the creatures living within the proton when it's unfolded.
In the show it's used as a show of force by the creatures on their way to take over earth.
It's not perfect, but I'd rather they adapt it in the way they did than just leave something as creepy as the giant eye in the sky looking down on aliens out of the story altogether.
never watched the show (and never will) but this was an interesting part of the first book. on par with the ayy whos job was to destroy civilizations with his boss breathing down his neck
The sophon folding sequence is the only part of TBP that hints at the end of the story. It's why when someone says that the author had no idea how the story was going to end when he started it are full of shit.
The whole story is window dressing for his wanting to write about Dark Forest theory and the string theory 11-dimension universe. Both of which he probably believes himself.
>ayys discover intelligent civ inside a photon during a botched second attempt
to unfold it
>the micro-civ turns into eyes in the sky on the unfolded proton and then they turn into a mirror, focusing the sun’s energy to destroy the main city on the planet
>ayys nuke the shit out of it
>did we just-
>yea… aaaanywaaaays
Who knows? 400 years is a lot of time for us to advance, especially with such motivation.
The Dark Forest hypothesis is fricking bullshit and cringe.
Trisolaran propoganda.
It doesn't really make sense that there would be any chance at all, just the message imprinting ability alone is so overpowered if it can move at light speed it could just be permanently blinding everyone, it could imprint message permanently on billions of people even if it needed to be physically present for it to work. The only gap you would have to see would be however long it takes light from the two furthest humans on earth.
>just the message imprinting ability alone is so overpowered if it can move at light speed it could just be permanently blinding everyone, it could imprint message permanently on billions of people even if it needed to be physically present for it to work.
They're powerful, but they're not that powerful.
The books it's more or less established that they can only do the countdown / eye message thing to a few people simultaneously across the globe, or a room full of people simultaneously if they're all together in the same room.
They're considerably more powerful in the show, but even then I doubt they have the ability to do that. They're certainly not capable of permanently imprinting messages on billions of people at once. You gotta realize even in the show they quite literally are flying in and out of your retinae/photoreceptors hundreds of times per eye per second to create the illusion of the countdown or words they want. They can't do that for thousands of people at once, let alone tens/hundreds of thousands, much less anything remotely close to millions or billions.
They can either hack every screen at once in the entire world, which seems unlikely knowing how they work, or they can cover every screen in the entire world at once, while one has unraveled and is covering the earth. Based on this blinding every human at once seems possible.
netflix fanfiction
We're talking about the show anon. They aren't as overpowered in the book.
I can buy them being able to frick with technology and screens connected to some kind of network / internet on a massive scale as part of their abilities, if it's a situation where both Sophons are going full overdrive. They don't have to change every individual screen in the world, they just have to force them to see a new feed.
Think of it as the equivalent of a global pop-up spam ad and it makes more sense than them individually manually changing every single display on earth simultaneously.
By permanently blinding them I mean they would effectively just map out the humans and do their retina trick permanently on rotation. I don't really see what is stopping them. Billions would perhaps be too long to permanently blind everyone, but definitely it should be possible to do to to tens of millions in a timeframe that would seem instant to humans. Probably in a realistic scenario you wouldn't even need to do that, just blind any relevant STEM student on rotation around the global and you are down to a few hundred thousand. After a while humans would think it was God telling them not to study science and that would be it. I'm just saying by the assumed physics it would be possible, if the dumb author pulled something else out of his ass to curb their power level he should have limited their speed instead of magic power decrease.
The human retina contains about 126 million photoreceptor cells that absorb photons in order to create vision. Of these 6 million are in the fovea, which creates the most focused part of your vision. Lets be generous and say the Sophon only needs to disturb 1% of these to cause a blinded vision field, so 1.25 million. As stated in the book the Sophon creates images by repeatedly flying back and forth through the retina in a pattern. The average thickness of the retina is about 0.3 millimeters. Lets say the average length of a pass through is 0.4 mm since it will have to zig-zag as well as switch eye at some point. The length the Sophon needs to travel for effective blindness is then 0.0004 * 1,250,000 = 500 meters. At the speed of light that takes less than 1/500,000th of a second. However to cause blindness this needs to be done many times a second. A person can easily read even if they blink once per second, which takes significantly longer than 1/500,000th of a second. Trained humans can recognize images that flash for less than 1/200th of a second (i.e. with their vision being blocked 99.5% of the second). But lets say the Sophon needs to fly through the retina 50 times a second to cause effective blindness, which means 250,000 meters that needs to be covered per person per second. Dividing the speed of light with this number, the Sophon can cause effective blindness in 1,200 people. Assuming of course they are static and with zero distance between each other. And that the Sophon has zero other tasks and never needs to slow down for decision-making.
I'd like to know what the sophon uses to propel itself with such precision.
yeh would like to know also
what happens if they just ignore the timer? what else can the sophons do? or is it a case of assassin woman then finishes the job.
This shit is so gay frickers, they've caged us. Billions must die.
>aliens are incapable of lying
>"You are bugs" which is an objective falsehood
BRAVO VINCE
They're incapable of lying to one another because their method of communication is basically psychic brain waves combined with flashing lights in their brain to convey all of their thoughts and feelings.
That doesn't mean they're incapable of lying to humans who they communicate with via human speech.
Fair enough.
Yea and they did end up lying for decades while setting the scene for Cheng Xin to get elected swordholder and attacked literally during the hand-off ceremony
They had to have the "you are bugs" line very specifically explained to them and even still they obviously didn't really get it. My thought was just that they didn't really understand what calling people bugs meant but they just had a vague idea that it wasn't a nice thing to say.
>How do you stop the San-Ti??
I just want to toss this out there. I don't know if I'm just moronic or what. Maybe it's because I binged watched this but was anyone else extremely irritated by the musical score? It was offensively generic. Like shockingly generic to the point that I noticed it. It felt like AI generated slop. Whenever the "epic" music showed up, it just made me frustrated. This might've been the first time I paid attention to a show/movie's score for the wrong reasons.
It didn't frustrate me but it wasn't memorable at all.
I wasn't paying super close attention to the first few episodes though.
a extremely powerful phone call.
bump
If the aliens werent morons, humans would be fricked.
All they had to do was identify the top minds in the world and cause them to have accidents eg alter their vision when driving so they cause a collision, or make them walk off a cliff.
Instead they told everyone what they planned to do and made shit super obvious like countdown timers.
Also surely they could have just identified a closer livable planet or terraformed one. They can "unfold" particles and turn them into planet sized computers. Surely they can transmute elements into whatever they need to sustain life.
Its kinda dumb tbvh
Actually even easier would be tricking some scientist into designing an extinction level virus.
they do that in the books
Earth is the closest habitable planet to them
Terraform a planet in what star system? How is that easier than just coming here, assuming it's even possible?
This is like saying Humans can split the atom so surely we just transmute elements into whatever we need to sustain life
This. Also, cause every single pilot on earth to go blind, whenever those pilots fly a scientist or important figurehead. Same with car drivers.
There’s no need for fancy shit like that. Blocking theoretical physics breakthroughs and causing some key scientists to lose their nerve is good enough to deal with bugs.
when are these homies showing up?
Realistically any alien race advanced enough to freely travel between worlds/galaxies isn't going to bother with us, even the geniuses among us would be like the severely moronic in comparison and offer nothing of interest to them
As it's explained in the books and the show, the rate of technological leaps that humanity make are staggering and at the current rate they would leapfrog the aliens and absolutely dwarf their technology by the time they reached earth, as the aliens are more or less tech-locked on their journey through the cosmos.
Also as it's very brutally explained later in the books, most aliens races don't actually bother, they just send star ending weapons to nuke the entire solar system into dust or other crazy ass ways of destroying a solar system. The only reason the aliens in 3BP are bothering is because Earth is the closest habbitable planet and they fear staying in their system much longer as the cataclysmic events that wipe most of their planet are occurring with shorter and shorter time between them, suggesting the planet is either about to be ejected into the coldness of empty space, or swallowed up by one of the three stars it orbits.
this makes no sense moron. there are so many habitable planets once you start looking you dont have to settle for earth unless its for your moronic story to make sense
no wonder men stopped reading books
>there are so many habitable planets once you start looking you dont have to settle for earth unless its for your moronic story to make sense
Shit like this is why I cannot stand when non-book readers non-show watchers come into threads and start trying to argue about how stupid the plot points in the story are.
They can't just go to any random planet because the entire universe is full of life that will kill any other life it detects without hesitation.
The aliens can't just explore and find some new place to live, they can't just send probes and hope for the best, and they very specifically only have enough power resources for a 1 way trip, because they live on a dying planet that is constantly being flung so close to a sun that nearly the entire planet becomes boiling magma, or so far away from the 3 suns that it freezes and nearly breaks apart into nothingness.
The reason they settle for Earth specifically is because Earth sends signals out to the stars, and once the aliens send a message to earth and the reply back, they realize it's (essentially) next door and it's completely feasable for them to dump their entire planets resources into one giant interstellar armada to go take over earth.
Now I don't expect you to know any of that because you clearly haven't read the books and likely haven't seen the show. But stop assuming that you know better than the writer of the source material and stop insisting that the plot is full of holes when the only hole is the gap in your knowledge of the story.
>lists even more moronic reasons
wowie you really showed me
That you for proving my initial point.
No I think the other guy was right, that’s moronic
You know what is most moron? The idea that these extremely advanced scientist alien beings are evil or nepharious. They are millions of years more advanced than humans and yet they are threatened with extinction. Okay, fine. They desperately need to flee to an inhabitable planet. Okay, fine. They discover earth and humanity. Why wouldn't the aliens say to humanity in the most peaceful and non-threatening way, "Hey, we are on the verge of extinction. Can we come live with you for a while? We will brings lots of goodies such as this extremely advanced supercomputer that can help you to terraform your Moon, Mars, Venus, Titan, and Callisto. Whadaya say to that, huh, one fellow scientist to another, ol' buddy, ol chum". Scientists generally believe in doing no harm to other species. Humanity would surely be thrilled to know that intelligent life exists.
Why the premise that the aliens are evil and the humans are scared?
>Scientists generally believe in doing no harm to other species
Had me up until here although the beginning was shaky.
They're not evil as a species. But they are extreme pragmatists. They have become despotic collectivists because the conditions they "live" under are so harsh. Most of their species is dehydrated most of the time, with no guarantee they will ever even be hydrated.
There is only so much space on the earth. And integrating scary-ass looking aliens into human society would be impossible, even if mandated by tech-hungry governments. What happens when humans assault or murder trisolarans? Are trisolarans intended to abide by the laws of the countries they live in when they have their own?
The closest feasible option would be for humans to say yeah, we've got an empty planet called Mars. It's not livable now, but you can terraform it if you like. But in that case the aliens would have zero incentive to share any tech, and the humans would have a superpowered neighbor next door that can wipe them in an instant while Earth can do nothing to retaliate.
Think, anon. Don't be stupid.
If the game is anything to go by, the leader of their species is a dick, while everyone else doesn't really have a choice. There are factions within the ETO, and right in the beginning we have the listener wanting to spare or work with humans, so it's more just the alien suits fault for being greedy.
Not just in the game. The Princeps (their leader) also
>threatens to have his lead scientist executed if he failed to unfold the proton on his second try
>sentences the listener to be dehydrated and rehydrated eventually so he could see humanity get wiped out and then get executed once he knew they were gone
why didn't they try to overthrow him?
He is the way he is because he has to be. The cruel streak is probably a bit excessive, but in order to survive chaotic periods the trisolarans developed a collectivist society predicated on a strong leader who is willing to make the hard decisions. They don't question his decisions.
not that anon but thanks for explaining this point.
If the San-Ti were afraid of us, why would they tell us they were coming and when? are they stupid?
They're implied to be a hive mind. So thoughts are literal. Until Evans fricking up with the Red Riding Hood fable, they believed that humanity was of similar mind and behavior, and the goal of communication was to create a subset of a population subservient to the San-Ti when they arrive to be treated as animals in a zoo for them to observe until they eventually go extinct.
That said, the explanation of arrival and timeframe is mostly them gloating, because once higher order scientific discoveries are curbed, your future is doomed unless you can find a way out.
Because they had to get a response from Earth in order to precisely know Earth's position.
They weren't afraid of humans until Mike Evans fricked up and let them know we could lie.
Until that point they were content with just shutting down our technological advancements. But once they learned that humans can lie, and that the human they've trusted most has more or less been lying to them this whole time (by telling them fairy tales and fables), they start to fear humanity.
And in typical bully fashion, they try to intimidate something that they fear to get humans to back down and be subservient.
>be the son of oil tycoon
>your friend tells you ayys are coming
>you think you can be the sole communicator and representative
>frick it all up cause ofcourse you do
Fricking Mike Evans.
the popularity of this shit tier sf shows clearly how moronic people are and how far society has degenerated into mindless consumer drones without purpose, knowledge and imagination
>COPERNICUS SAVE ME AAAAAAAA
I hope that stupid little c**t keeps dying.
If Earth sends out another signal to space, it will get BTFO. The first thing they have to do is make sure that doesn't happen.
In the show the Sophons have only been here for a few months. Prior to that, it was all super slow communication between them and the only people who knew how to use the sun as a relay, that's Mark Evans and his people.
>Fire up Red Coast Base
>"PINNACE PINNACE PINNACE PINNACE PINNACE"
>anon works at Red Coast Base
>receives Trisolaran message
>responds with seething wojack and green text making fun of the aliens
truths science fiction morons will never acknowledge
>we will never leave the solar system
>we will never colonize another planet
>we will never contact other lifeforms
>truths science fiction morons will never acknowledge
>>we will never leave the solar system
>>we will never colonize another planet
>>we will never contact other lifeforms
We won't but the AIs that take over will.
Once you make the leap from fleshy creatures to synthetic life a lot of things are shit easy.
>don't have to establish and maintain environmental conditions meant for humans
>easily travel to other star systems since human lifespan is no longer a problem
>no need to look for planets in habitable zones, everything is fine as long as it has raw resources
>easily copy, backup and improve a "mind" on the go
>modular bodies for any purpose
etc...it makes entire sense to make that extra leap since it essentially unlocks the universe as soon as biological concerns are no longer relevant
you probably studied humanities, computer science techbro or dropped out of school altogether.
its really funny seing non engineers talk as if robots/machines are some kind of magic contraption that just works forever
You're telling me that a species has enough time to evolve on a planet that exists in a region of space where three stars orbit each other so chaotically that they frequently obliterate the planets in the region? I'm not buying into it. And we are supposed to believe that not only has the species had time to evolve but it had time to evolve to the point where they can build planet-sized supercomputers but shrink them down to the size of a molecule? I'm not buying into it. And their species has evolved so greatly and they can build mighty supercomputers and effect progress in far distant parts of the galaxy, and yet they could not figure out how to discover and terraform nearby planets to escape their species to? And they have to pick on little ol' earthlings? I'm not buying any of this preposterous nonsense.
I have news for you. Humans are the only intelligent beings in the universe. We are the anomaly. The universe is too young to have produced intelligent life. We got lucky. We are the aliens we think are out there. In a few billion years, an advanced alien civilization will discover the long lost alien human civilization of earth and postulate that we were simply unlucky to have emerged so soon before intelligent life starting sprouting up all over the universe, and that we likely died out due to loneliness.
you almost got it
God made us in his image. Christ is King.
Deus vult.
>the universe is too young to have produced intelligent life
it makes me really depressed that this shit pile of a story got ao much attention and discussion while other better scifi classics like Foundation get fricking nothibg
Foundation has an entire series on Apple TV that was heavily advertised.
Unless it's the actual TV show you're saying is a classic. I wouldn't know, I never bothered to watch it.
oh my god I fricking forgot about that ROFL
still,, would have liked to see anons here talking about it
The best thing about this show is that it made me read the book.
It got butchered beyond recognition.
You just do what Invincible did with the Viltrumite Empire. You make them fall in love with you. Just ignore them and keep developing art. The San Ti went purely into science and gave up art and their culture. In the books they become enamored with humanity and wanted to keep a portion of humanity in a preserve to keep them. Would they destroy humanity if they addicted enough to our media? Would they risk never finding out what the One Piece is? Missing out watching the shitshow of the next American election? Will the fat frick ever finish his books?
Yea they fell in love with us alright. They went from exterminating us to making us all migrate to Australia and eat each other to bring down the population to a more manageable 50mil. That’s love right there.
drinking binges are kino
I'm glad Netfix decided to make a globo version of the story because the only thing I disagree with from the original is why the frick he write that chinese are the only race that deserves to inherit our planet.
He was writing for a Chinese audience. Hence every Chinese character is a remarkably resourceful protagonist and Chinese people are the most important in the history of the world. And the few Americans are either straight up heartless (Wade) or incompetent and ineffectual (General Wallfacer).
This is why I find it hilarious that chuds are shilling the CN show. Funny, but not surprising, because above all they are contrarians.
>. And the few Americans are either straight up heartless (Wade)
Wade was right though, and popular even among Chinese readers.
It doesn't matter if you think he was "right" or not. He's described as being a cruel sadist. He is a murderer. He's the most stubborn human of all time. It's not a flattering portrayal. And even if you ignore personality traits, he's not perfect. He's good at seeing the big picture but he kind of sucks at the small stuff. He straight up attempts a murder in broad daylight and gets arrested. He makes an army of 100 dudes to fight an entire fleet armed with antimatter assault rifles. His one great success he falls ass-backward into when his preferred guy dies where his brain can't be harvested so he has to go with literally the last available option. And he got super lucky that the brain was even intercepted. The one thing Wade has going for him is his "Win, at any cost" philosophy. It makes him well-suited for some things. But he's a far cry from the perfect badass people pretend he is.
Man that third book.
Frick sake why do they keep letting that feckless c**t make decisions? She already fricked the dog so hard that all humanity was forced into Australia and had to practise cannibalism just to survive.
When she orders wade to stand down someone should have just fricking shot her.
She's such an idiot and probably the worst part of the series.
Nah the worst part is she keeps fricking up and getting rewarded for it.
Now I do hope that DnD have the balls to do what the books did (where the trisolarans used media influence to feminize society to the point it was too weak to defend itself) but i doubt it because the "Rules" of the "message" would be that you are not allowed to show a feminist society as anything other than a glorious utopia with no flaws at all.
>where the trisolarans used media influence to feminize society
bullshit
They used their influence to gain sympathy and soft power but the feminization was because of how easy life had become.
The third book (and the series as a whole) is just "hard times->strong men->good times->weak mean->hard times" on a constant loop.
Some speculate so, but outside of a few mostly irrelevant details the appearance of the aliens is never described.
>she keeps fricking up and getting rewarded for it.
That's a product of a feminized society.
>Advance!
I'm of the opinion that every race or culture should be allowed to write their own power fantasy. The books being China Number One power wank kinda added to their charm.
Read the Chinese book or watch the Chinese show and what the frick is Santi? Frick D&D
Apparently sophons can cause any person to hear anything at any point in time and can cause hallucinations. They can also apparently take control of every single electronic device on the planet at the same time, and remote control cars and planes. They're essentially omniscient Death Notes.
>unless we get D&Ded again
assume so, until proven otherwise
Do the books get better? Read the first one. Wasn't impressed. Also sick of the Yang Dong, Dong Dong names.
Book 2 is the best one but you probably won't like it if you didn't like 1. It's marginally more character focused and the protagonist is based. It also works as the end of the series.
All the characters in Book 3 are completely passive and everything happens around them without them having much influence on it except for one side character who is too based to live . The scale gets so ridiculous that it's hard to give a shit.
Book 2 > Book 3 (pre-Pluto) > Book 1 > Book 3 (post-Pluto)
Book 2 has the highest volume of non-Chinese characters if the names are filtering you, but if they are, try this
i have no idea why some mid unoriginal sci-fi catches on like the three body problem.
The remembrance of earth’s past is a multi-award winning book series, globally popular.
Yeah, like I said I have no idea how this mid caught on. It's no small wonder modern day scifi is a laughing stock.
Goku.
>I want to fight you at your strongest, so I will give you another 200 years for your second fleet to arrive! But I'm warning you, I'll be training the whole time!
Are the aliens even same size as the humans? There was some analogue about ants and humans. Would be great if those super advanced aliens come here to eliminate us , and when they arrive would turn out that they are small like bugs and can be stomped
There's a 4th book that's basically fan fiction that describes the trisolarans as little white grub insect things
Have sex with her and prevent her from getting hit by a car (book 2 spoilers)
>whole point of the show is saving humanity
>don't save humanity because basically so woman says "no"
Why the FRICK did I waste my time reading these books on the recommendations of my mid-wit friends?
You should have stopped at book 2
t. 95 IQ
It was a no-win situation. Either she accepts humanity being conquered by trisolarans or she dooms both earth and trisolaris to inevitably be destroyed by a third party supercivilization
Guess what happens anyway. Anyway, non sensicical scifi with poor pride and less interesting themes than a juvenile reader like Starship Troopers
Tell me you didn't understand the books without telling me you didn't understand the books
It's slop, hope you get over it.
Lol use another 4 channel buzzword
come on, you can do it! it's easier than thinking for yourself!
Hilarious how the bugs in starship troopers are more effective than the moronic aliens in this.
Rule of thumb only read scifi from black or white men. Everything else will most likely be slop.
Every thread devolves into you stupid /misc/brain morons b***hing about the girl swordholder in the third book. One of the best and most creative sci-fi book series of all time and all you can focus on is >muh womyn bad
Touch grass. Have sex. Get off the internet.
> One of the best and most creative sci-fi book series of all time
looool jesus this is some good bait
I did. With this gal
Its shit scifi
Okay i just started ep1, why the frick are the aliens making physicists see countdowns of when the aliens will arrive in 4 years?
and lol Black physicist. and lol hot white female physicist. dating of course lol. this is hack shit
so it looks like the books are for pseudo-intellectual midwits and the show is for outright idiots
The worst type of sci Fi where they constantly asspull space magic from nowhere again and again to solve every problem to you get to the point where people are living millions of years in secret double space dimensions before asspullingbas way to save the universe.
Absolutely childish.
le spooky countdown
>race cannot understand lies deceit or fairy tales
>proceeds to build next level vr video games that present a complete artificial reality with entirely new worlds and fictional people with complex fictional events
>we cannot lie!
>uses their tech to deceive people and alter their vision and force then to think they are going insane and kill themselves
Co designed with humans
oh yeah I forgot
>we instantly communicate thoughts as a species !
>has a singular person respond individually to the broadcast telling the Chinese prostitute the opposite of what their race wants
They catch him pretty much right after and punish him.
>MUH DARK FOREST
>actually, what are you talking about there's actually a peaceful intergalactic civilzation that has been around this entire time and they all peacefully give up their virtually immortal existences to restart the universe like nice chaps
LMAO
read the books, and get ready to be disappointed
when they land we rape them, it's so crazy it just might work
They're the size of a grain of rice
Then I'm the perfect weapon
HOW THE FRICK DID THE ALIENS MANUFACTURE THE GAME HELMET WITH FRICKING PHOTONS?
space magic, like everything in this moronic series.
In the book it was a game made by the cultists that just used normal VR headsets.
So uh, there's your answer.
sophon send instruction to human scientist in eto
human scientist in eto say "ok"
eto use headset to recruit more scientist
eto grow
>the obvious sinophile overhyping this slop because it's chinese
kek
The diversity hire cast ruined this show. It was so bad I'm sure even the creators noticed it.
I THINK THE MICROCOSMOS SUCKS
ah, so this is why people talk about a light reflecting ray
the chink show is apparently not as close with the book as some would lead you to believe
it's literally exactly what happens in the book with the one exception that you don't see a multitude of eyes merge into one big eye
Also it's true you don't get the conversation about it, IE someone being like PRINCEPS, IT'S MERELY A 2D PLANE WITH NO DEPTH, IT CAN NOT HURT US--ACK!
hardly that different from the book
Is this the micro-civ they discover while trying to unfold protons? Damn the Chinese series really dive deep.
What happened to the wife Wallbreaker?The Japanese woman one.
Her wallfacer has apparently been written out of the show. It makes sense, since their story goes nowhere and has zero impact on the overall timeline aside from humans developing mega supercomputers.
their story is the entire reason zhang beihai gets to such a position in the military hierarchy
Yeah but what happened to her and Bill after they woke up from hibernation? I remember that she realized his plans right before going into hibernate but forgot what occured when the wake up.
And that explains why there's only 3 Wallfacers in the show, even though Hines' plan arguably is the most successful through Beihai.
My guess they just streamline Zhang and Hines' plot through Raaj.
iirc she essentially tells him that she has "wallbroken" him but they still love each other unconditionally and shit just goes on with the status quo intact and the mental seal continues until the ruse is found out and the world government says that they knew it was a bad idea in the first place
It has been a few years since I read TDF though, I could be wrong. But they had the truest and probably only real romance in the series. Tianming/Cheng was dumb bullshit based on fantasy and guilt.
>but they still love each other unconditionally and shit just goes on with the status quo intact
Lol. Then again it's not like Wallbreakers are meant to kill Wallfacers either. I'm gonna have to check. Plus, does ETO even exist after the timeskip? I feel like Keiko is the last ETO member, since in the third book they employ a different faction entirely.
>wallbreaker for American general
reveals that she has found his plan, he kills himself
>wallbreaker for Venezuelan president
reveals that she has found his plan, he wants to quit, threatens the UN with a bomb, returns to Venezuela, and is stoned by his own people
>wallbreaker for European scientist
wins via the power of love, accomplishes her own goals without killing her husband
>wallbreaker for Luo Ji
was himself, didn't work after he got his shit together
>decide not use the pocket dimension for the entire solar system
>use it anyway later
lol
the frick are you even talking about?
You morons continue not to understand the books you have said you've read.
I'm going to assume by "pocket dimension for the solar system" you mean the black domain that would keep the solar system safe until the sun dies. That's not a pocket dimension. The ONLY pocket dimension accessible to humans was the one Yuan Tianming left to Cheng Xi. It was 1km x 1km and it was created long, long after the extermination of the solar humans. The only ones authorized to enter were Tianming, Cheng, and Guan Yifan. It was not a long term solution for anyone but them. The humans still did not have the multitude of FTL ships they would have needed to create a black domain by the time their solar system received the dark forest attack. So please tell me, what the frick are you talking about?
Why were there so many unnecessary references to drugs in this show? Felt like a commercial or propaganda. The main characters are always smoking weed or using anxiety medication.
The main druggie character (Saul) is something of a lush in the books who rejects his wallfacer duties and uses his authority to indulge in decades-old liquor and frick his dream waifu on command in the Louvre which he had shut down just for him.
It's a fairly essential part of the character. Auggie's alcohol binge was a D/D OC to show her deep regret over the Panama Canal incident. The book character feels almost no remorse for it.
>The main characters are always smoking weed or using anxiety medication
The characters smoke like crazy in the novel. Benedict Wong's character even smokes other people's newly finished one.
this show has so many giga plotoles its pure trash
wallfacer/wallbreaker shit has to be the dumbest plotline in a sea of dumb plotlines. chninks are overly literal and all their plans were fricking moronic.
begging you plebs to read some real scifi