>imagine this pencil is a piece is magic >now imagine this paper represents Christian bale's character and his twin >folds paper in half and pierces with pencil
There literally is no Robert Angier, though think the entire Scotland yard and privy council couldn't figure this out? They are literally holding a trial for a NON PERSON
Bottom line you have to accept that the "trial" at the beginning can not possibly be real since it's all happening for a person who isn't dead and doesn't exist
The corpse they pulled out of the tank was very real. Just because "Robert Angrier" was the pseudonym of Lord Caldlow doesn't make this corpse not exist.
NOBODY NAMED "ANGIER" EVER EXISTED. YOU CANT HOLD A TRIAL FOR THE MURDER OF A FAKE NON PERSON.
You think the cops were just like >yup all the money comes from lord Caldwell who is also buying all the trial evidence and if we interview him he's literally Angier also cutter knows this
There is a corpse, and several witnesses who identify it as Robert Angier. Robert Angier is believed to be an American showman living in Britain, and nobody knows his true identity. Therefore, when "Robert Angier", American showman, turns up dead, there is a trial to determine the guilt of his alleged murderer, Patrick Bateman. You act like they'd somehow be able to call America and ask for his birth certificate to verify he's a real person.
>You act like they'd somehow be able to call America and ask for his birth certificate to verify he's a real person.
THATS EXACTLY WHAT THEY WOULD DO. AND THEY WOULD FIND NO RECORDS ANGIER EVER EXISTED BUT THEY WOULD FIND A PAPER TRIAL TO LORD CALDLOW WHO IS ROBERT ANGIER AND ISN'T DEAD
The US didn't have mandatory birth certificates until 20 years after the setting of the film.
7 months ago
Anonymous
ALL THE MONEY CAME FRON CALDLOWS ACCOUNT WHICH IS NO DOUBT IN A LONDON BANK FURTHERMORE HE BOUGHT THE FUCKING TRIAL EVIDENCE ALARM BELLS ARE RINGING WILLY YOU THINK NOBODY NOTICES THAT LORD CALDLOW IS SNOOPING AROUND THIS FUCKING TRIAL HOLY SHIT
7 months ago
Anonymous
Photo ID wasn't commonplace before the 1950's.
7 months ago
Anonymous
Sure but the MONEY Angier spent on Tesla came from Caldlow and there would be bank receipts... oddly going to the same Caldlow account THAT JUST BOUGHT THE TRIAL EVIDENCE
7 months ago
Anonymous
It's never specified how Angier paid David Bowie, He may have brought him bags of cash. Without birth records and photo identification, there is nothing tying Lord Caldlow to Angier except an uncanny resemblance if someone should happen to meet both men, which Caldlow is carful to avoid. Caldlow is just an eccentric rich guy who wants to buy tricks off a dead magician. He also has a goatee, so he's clearly not even the same guy.
7 months ago
Anonymous
Normally in any criminal investigation you take some time to find out who the corpse is. The cops would discover in about 20 seconds that "Robert Angier" does not exist and all his interests are tied to Caldlow (and his "family") who if they interviewed would discover in fact is Angier. You have to suspend your disbelief at the very outset since the trial is taking place for the murder of a NON PERSON.
7 months ago
Anonymous
But how would they discover that he doesn't exist?
7 months ago
Anonymous
Banking records most probably. The investigation before the trial would reveal no evidence of Robert Angier's existence
7 months ago
Anonymous
There's also parish records of births. Presumably the American embassy as well would be interested in one of the alleged murders of their citizen and when investigated likewise would discover no evidence that Angier is an American or was born or naturalized the US
7 months ago
Anonymous
>the murder of a NON PERSON
"a living man bears a resemblance to this corpse, therefore the corpse DOES NOT EXIST"
this is how dumb you sound
7 months ago
Anonymous
He'd have no idea what the final cost of the machine is before hand all the information we have was that it cost "a fortune". Ditto for all of Angiers associates in the London circus scene- did he pay them allon cash too? How often did Lord Caldlow go to the London bank to take out bags of cash? Nobody noticed all the cash stashed in Angiers apartment?
7 months ago
Anonymous
>bank receipts
What receipts?
Banking records most probably. The investigation before the trial would reveal no evidence of Robert Angier's existence
>Banking records
What records?
This idea of tracking the flow of money to 100% accurately reveal the sources and payouts is hollywood fantasy on the level of "rotate 79deg about the z axis. enhance" nonsense in modern day let alone over a century ago. It wasn't used in reality in the 2007 disappearance of Les Wexner's fortune in association with Epstein because records that granular simply aren't and never have been kept. Occasionally LEO will vaguely imply this method is how someone got caught but they're never explicit or detailed about it because it isn't true and the fabricated claim is covering up the fact that they were actually caught using unconstitutional surveillance and parallel construction.
A dead human body is proof that a human being died you autistic piece of shit
You don't have to establish somebody's identity for them to be a murder victim they can just be a john doe
Get a hammer and hit yourself in the temple as hard as you can
NOBODY NAMED "ANGIER" EVER EXISTED. YOU CANT HOLD A TRIAL FOR THE MURDER OF A FAKE NON PERSON.
You think the cops were just like >yup all the money comes from lord Caldwell who is also buying all the trial evidence and if we interview him he's literally Angier also cutter knows this
AND JUST GAVE UP? SEEMS LEGIT
Breh, they didn't have IDs in those times lol. What, were you expecting him to be carrying around a driver's license? It was enough back then to have a body and have people ID who you were through various recordkeeping. A Robert Angier did exist as a person. Believe it or not, people back then would frequently commit identity fraud because...yeah, their citizenship records were incredibly rudimentary compared to today.
You'd be fucking horrified to learn how lax it was even as late as like 1970.
"ELLO AMERKA ID LOIKE THE RECoRD OF SO AND SO"
"What are records?"
7 months ago
Anonymous
Do you think bureaucracies were invented yesterday?
7 months ago
Anonymous
My state cant even find my high school diploma. Democracy is a joke.
7 months ago
Anonymous
You think countries kept immaculate records of every single citizen easily accessible to anyone that asks before computers? You are attempting to apply modern day standards to a film set over a hundred years ago.
A dead human body is proof that a human being died you autistic piece of shit
You don't have to establish somebody's identity for them to be a murder victim they can just be a john doe
Get a hammer and hit yourself in the temple as hard as you can
it makes far more sense that it was the one-time clone from a machine rather than a twin but movie never makes that leap. I mean, bale sends jackman on a wild goose chase to tesla who could coincidentally akchyually unironically create clones and help him with a trick?
Caine explained what The prestige is... people are not here for seeing things disappear, they are here to see things disappear & reappear with happy ending to the Turn, to experience awe. In a sense Jackman character didn't really understood the prestige as he only made things disappear & die in a tank, it's rather odd as he understood before the prestige as he wanted to save doves from being crushed before, but he lost sight of it trying to one up Bale twins.
DEFENDER
How large was this tank?
CUTTER
The sort of tank used for underwater
escapes- four or five hundred gallons.
DEFENDER
How do you think Mr.Borden was able
to move the tank under the trap door
without anyone noticing?
CUTTER
Ask him- he's the magician.
OWENS (CONT'D)
I represent Lord Caldlow, and
accomplished amateur magician and
historian of magic
BORDEN
How much?
OWENS
Lord Caldlow is...
OWENS (CONT'D)
Lord Caldlow wanted you to have this-
(produces a leather
bound JOURNAL)
As a show of good faith. He thought
it might be of interest.
OWENS (CONT'D)
Robert Angier's diary... It includes
the time he spent in Colorado learning
OWENS
Lord Caldlow was happy to hear that
you'd reconsidered his offer.
BORDEN
Angier's journal, the "gesture of
good faith"? It's a fake.
OWENS
I assure you it's not.
BORDEN
It has to be- it refers to events
that happened after his death.
OWENS
Clever predictions, I'm sure. The
provenance of the journal is clear
and under no doubt. It's written in
Angier own hand, of which we have
numerous examples.
What makes you think it's a fake?
Thank you for coming, Mr.Owens.
It's fallen to me to dispose of
Mr.Angier's equipment. Looking at
the manifest, it's cleat that Lord
Caldlow has purchased the bulk of
the items.
OWENS
Mr.Cutter, if you needed to know
where to deliver the items you surely
could have justCUTTER
It's not just that, Mr.Owens. There
is a particular item
This time, in fact, that I wish to...
well, that is to say, I want to
OWENS
You wnat to buy it instead.
CUTTER
I suppose so, yes.
OWENS
This is the machine?
I'm afraid Lord Caldlow was adamant
about procuring this particular item.
CUTTER
Perhaps if I dould talk to Lord
Caldlow in person.
OWENS
Out of the question, I'm afraid.
It is only then that he notices the HAND ON HER SHOULDER.
He rises to come face-to-face with Lord Caldlow
BORDEN
(CONT'D)
You must be Lord-
-who is ROBERT ANGIER. Risen from the dead.
ANGIER
(English accent)
Caldlow. Yes, I am. I always have
been.
ANGIER
Hello, Cutter.
CUTTER
You're alive.
(Angier nods)
You're Lord Caldlow.
(Angier nods again)
How?
ANGIER
(shrugs) *
I learned an American accent fromCUTTER
(Angry)
How are you alive, Robert?! I saw
you on the slab, for God's sake.
You see it made to trick other people
you never see it work solely for the purpose of enlightening the audience
frogposter is right, the machine was all an illusion, sometimes used to fool a rival othertimes used to swindle money
Oh and all this is before we get into the murky case of WHAT HAPPENED TO ROOT, although personally I don't think it matters since it's so blatantly evident the trial at the beginning is a stage act
Was about to say the same thing the fuck is wrong with these posts one thing is prestige-posting but this is like an asylum doing a thesis on the movie
I got invited to a friend's house for the first time in 11 grade along with another guy, and they made me choose the movie
And this was it, this was the movie
Half way through it they're giving me the side eye and communicating with eachother via their eyes, eventually they just ditch it and start doing other stuff
Never got invited ever again
Fuck this movie
90% of this movie is shit but I rank it above The Prestige for one reason only. The train station platform realization scene where Paul Giamatti achieves Nic Cage levels of ham.
You cant really know if the original is the one being transported or the double is. But since the double is an exact copy it doesn't even matter. In the book does though.
Don't bother. I've seen people argue that since from an external perspective it seems the same it is the same. Some people don't have the compute to understand continuity of experience and have been mindbroken by pictures of apples on LCD displays
I aint talking about the significance of the ordeal would be. I am talking about the movie and not the book.
Don't bother. I've seen people argue that since from an external perspective it seems the same it is the same. Some people don't have the compute to understand continuity of experience and have been mindbroken by pictures of apples on LCD displays
You are a homosexual because the movie doesn't dwell on what really the price would be on doing such a thing but one or two words from tesla. The book really tells you how much you lose but since we are talking about the movie in Cinemaphile and not Cinemaphile it is veridic to say that the double is in fact an exact copy and it doesn't really matter.
7 months ago
Anonymous
>veridic
Good word but >the double is in fact an exact copy and it doesn't really matter.
Is such a dumb thing to say I'm not going to reply to you again
7 months ago
Anonymous
you stupid fucking chud of a moron. If someone creates a copy of you and then kills you, you're dead. Of course it fucking matters. Copy lives but (you) are dead
It happens when you go on tangents. I am sticking simply to the movie and not the morality or how cientifically such a proccess would take place. Keep giving me (you)s retards.
7 months ago
Anonymous
>If you make fun of me for being stupid I win
No kek you dumb fucking child I hope you're at most 14 but even then you should've figured it out already.
7 months ago
Anonymous
You keep them coming bud
7 months ago
Anonymous
>He has given up entirely and is rolling over and offering his bussy
lmao
7 months ago
Anonymous
Keep it up
7 months ago
Anonymous
Imagine being unable to comprehend the difference between the substance of a thing and the appearance of a thing. That's literally tranny logic. Imagine announcing it and then getting butthurt when people laugh at you.
7 months ago
Anonymous
You keep at it boy
7 months ago
Anonymous
You are a dumb dumb dumb motherfucker and I am glad to insult you
7 months ago
Anonymous
And let me repeat for (you)r walnut brain one last time book=/=movie.
You are a dumb dumb dumb motherfucker and I am glad to insult you
7 months ago
Anonymous
>He thinks I'm making fun of him for that
Holy shit how do you even operate a computer? You're phoneposting aren't you? is it an iphone?
7 months ago
Anonymous
>movie
doesn't really dwell on what would happen to the clone or the person being cloned and its implications >book
does dwell on what would happen to the clone or the person being cloned and its implications >what is being discused in this thread movie or book?
movie
i really can't explain it easier
7 months ago
Anonymous
Dude you said it doesn't matter since they're identical which I what I took umbridge with.
There are no "implications" the action itself would have one of two outcomes inherently. There is no way it "doesn't matter". Continuity of experience.
Next time don't say dumb things and then double down on those dumb things.
7 months ago
Anonymous
In the movie it doesn't really matter.
7 months ago
Anonymous
In the movie it is extremely important, dude.
He even says he isn't sure if he ends up in the tank or not. That makes a massive difference to the character. IE: is the character currently dead.
There is no way it doesn't really matter.
7 months ago
Anonymous
If he can't tell if he is the one being transported or not it means the clone is an exact copy. So he gets to keep on living either way. And since there is no downside in the movie, it doesn't really matter.
7 months ago
Anonymous
>If he can't tell if he is the one being transported or not it means the clone is an exact copy. So he gets to keep on living either way.
I hope someone else will explain why this is wrong because I don't have the energy to.
7 months ago
Anonymous
the original died every night but since the one that was left had the memory of all the others, his perception is he was the lucky one every single time
7 months ago
Anonymous
There is only one original and when the clone (or maybe original) is relocated to the front of angier the first time they get the machine to work how they expect it to it means he really died and didn't even get to perform on stage. But it doesn't really matter because even tesla said in the movie that they are exact copies.
7 months ago
Anonymous
>But it doesn't really matter because even tesla said in the movie that they are exact copies.
Here we go again
7 months ago
Anonymous
Now tell me this would you really die if an exact copy still lingers? No, not really. I mean you WOULD die because obviously you cease to exist but not really to the rest of the world.
7 months ago
Anonymous
Imagine being unable to comprehend the difference between the substance of a thing and the appearance of a thing. That's literally tranny logic. Imagine announcing it and then getting butthurt when people laugh at you.
>Imagine being unable to comprehend the difference between the substance of a thing and the appearance of a thing
7 months ago
Anonymous
the original original angier shot the clone when he tested out the machine, so he drowned in the first show
then his clone died the next night and so on
the only reason the one at the end views it as a lottery is because he has the memory of clone after clone after clone until the night of the "murder"
7 months ago
Anonymous
How can you know the machine works as intended and angier didn't die the first time is what i am trying to say. When the clone backs up from the gun and tries to warn them to not to shoot him how do you know wich one is wich?
7 months ago
Anonymous
occam's razor
why complicate shit by theorizing the original was transported elsewhere and then a duplicate was made in the same place when the obvious choice is a duplicate was made elsewhere
2 processes vs 1 process
7 months ago
Anonymous
at what trying to get by saying this is that they are the same individual there is no original or clone. you say that the original died the first time and the clones only get to live on exact day or the time it gets to be on stage to elaborate the act but original or clone it makes not a single difference.
7 months ago
Anonymous
it's subjectivity vs objectivity
subjectively, the one that went into the machine suffered the fate of drowning every night while the clone had the memory of surviving every night
objectively, the more original one died every night
taking the identical nature of the clones aside, would you go into that machine knowing you (not the clone that will live on, for the next day at least) was going to drop through the trap door and drown in a moment?
7 months ago
Anonymous
>the one that went into the machine suffered the fate of drowning every night
*meant they drowned THAT night but remembered surviving other nights
7 months ago
Anonymous
>the one that went into the machine suffered the fate of drowning every night
*meant they drowned THAT night but remembered surviving other nights
its about the prestige man
7 months ago
Anonymous
Think of it like a photocopier. Does the thing you scan switch places with the copy or does it remain in its original position while the machine gathers the necessary information to make a copy and feeds the result from a different part?
7 months ago
Anonymous
you stupid fucking chud of a moron. If someone creates a copy of you and then kills you, you're dead. Of course it fucking matters. Copy lives but (you) are dead
The device is actually a soul teleporter. It leaves behind the physical husk, and creates a new vessel at the arrival point for the soul to inhibit. Only a creature with a soul can feel joy, which is why the teleported Angier is happy. But then he gets shot by the husk, which then continues on with the teleportation, but Angier isn't really there anymore to enjoy the fruits of his labors.
the scene where bale walks the woman back to her house and she goes inside to find the brother there as a magic trick... did they already know where she lived or the brother had to stalk them in the shadows for the entire date and break in while the other one kept her occupied at the door?
So did Batman clone himself and decide to share his life as as apposed to Wolverine who chose to kill off his clones? I still seems kinda strange that Bateman would go to America, clone himself, and then go back to UK to be a small time magic show helping hand
So did Batman clone himself and decide to share his life as as apposed to Wolverine who chose to kill off his clones? I still seems kinda strange that Bateman would go to America, clone himself, and then go back to UK to be a small time magic show helping hand
Congratulations, you guys are marks, just like Borden. You believed in the science fiction nonsense Angier came up with to trick Borden. The tanks had dummies, not real bodies.
Doesn't Hugh Jackman see that he kills himself by drowning in the end of the movie? Doesn't any sane viewer think to themselves, "Wow that's really retarded to invente FUCKING CLONING and then decide to kill yourself forever with that ability in the worst possible way to die (drowning) just for like 100 people who paid 3 cents for a ticket."
Dunno. The clone and the original both inherit the memories (I think), so it's never clear which is the clone and which is the original. Jackman talks about courage going through it every night, not knowing if he would end up being the one in the tank. Maybe the original kept surviving, or maybe at some point a clone survived and thought they were the original.
2nd example implies that the machine isn't consistent in its application and spits clones and originals out at random. The guy standing in the machine over the trap door is either a clone every time or the clone from last night.
>2nd example implies that the machine isn't consistent in its application and spits clones and originals out at random
Why isn't that possible? We have no idea how it works.
7 months ago
Anonymous
Because Tesla wasn't a retard.
7 months ago
Anonymous
He cartainly is not but the machine isn't perfect and as he said it doesn't do what he wants it to do
7 months ago
Anonymous
In that the device needed calibration. Not that it was a lottery machine bouncing atoms into and out of existence at random.
7 months ago
Anonymous
His quotes imply that the machine didn't work as expected.
>Nikola Tesla : Exact science, Mr Angier, is not an exact science.
>Nikola Tesla : Things don't always go as planned, Mr. Angier. That's the beauty of science.
Nolan is a total hack and the movie was based on a book. Just like his most famous movies were based on comic books. This is your opportunity to defend the Dark Knight Rises by the way/
Why he didn't just used the clone machine once, just once, in order to have a clone of himself who can use to do the trick of the teleported man just like Bale is doing it with his Twin? Zero deaths and you can finally have incest with yourself.
For one, he didn’t think of it. He never knew Bale's trick. For two, he was unwilling to devote his time and energy to maintaining the ploy and refused to spend half his life in disguise.
How is there this much discussion? It's pretty cut and dry.
It's a story about the dangers of envy and realizing your limitations as well as the dangers of pride. Bale's character was more talented but pushed the envelope too much when he was young. After meeting Tesla and accidentally creating a clone he decided to work with the clone in a way that would work out best within reason, though his pride in his work still hindered his relationships. Hackman was blinded by envy and wrathful thoughts and thus upon learning of the cloning machine used it in ethically questionable ways to outclass his rival but cursing him to a lonely existence that always ended in excruciating pain and death.
It's also about how simplicity is somehow the best solution, even if it means more commitment. Either Bale had a twin or a clone, they just decided to work together pretending to be only one person. It's such a simple trick that you wouldn't believe it at first. Not only Wolverine didn't want a simple trick, he couldn't accept a simple answer, it had to be something outstanding.
Just watched the scene: Caine actually tells Wolverine that Boden uses a double. He doesn't even say "maybe", he states it as a fact. The answer is just there. Wolverine doesn't WANT to believe it because it'd be "too simple". He can't find any enjoyment on simple things.
>de. Bale's character was more talented but pushed the envelope too much when he was young. After meeting Tesla and accidentally creating a clone
This never happened. Fallon was Bale's twin.
No, he wasn't, this tired smoothbrain headcannon needs to die. Literally, there is ZERO implication he had a twin im the story yet it is heavily insenuated he was cloned.
Why would he search out Tesla if he already had his act?
If they were perfect clones and not twins, why do their personalities differ? Why do the two "clones" love 2 different women, why does one of them insist on tying a different knot?
>After meeting Tesla and accidentally creating a clone he decided to work with the clone in a way that would work out best within reason, though his pride in his work still hindered his relationships.
None of this is in the movie you stupid fuck. Tesla builds the machine for Jackman and doesn't even understand how it works at first. He wasn't playing dumb and had a spare machine in the backroom that he'd built years before that.
It's pretty simple at the end it turns out that the main character (serious looking dude with dark hair) actually has a brother who is gay. They don't like talking about him so they stuck him in a closet or something idk it's been awhile.
I know it's the meme theory and not true but assuming the machine is a scam only adds to the film for me. It just fits so nicely compared to 'lol magic cloning machine'
To me the thing about The Prestige that's completely ridiculous is that it introduces a machine that defies fucking thermodynamics and is the most incredible thing to ever exist and results in a guy making dozens of clones of himself, and then it tries to one up that with the shocking ultimate reveal that "Christian Bale had a twin brother". It would be like the characters discovering proof of the existence of God and then getting down to the mystery of who ate the last piece of cake. It is so wildly out of proportion and anti-climactic.
Tesla supported alternating current which is now widely accepted as superior for domestic commercial use but since Edison controlled General Electric his direct current infrastructure gained a monopoly
This is Nolands best movie since he finally understood how obsession is really about man's relationship with cinema and voyeurism. The form isn't a tool for story, story is a tool for form
>imagine this pencil is a piece is magic
>now imagine this paper represents Christian bale's character and his twin
>folds paper in half and pierces with pencil
Pencil the size of a tangerine.
But it's no ordinary tangerine.
It's magic.
>I want one goldfish bowl suspended between my legs every night for the rest of my life.
Huge ackman
EPIC post anon keep it up
Looks exactly like Robby Downer Jr.
Im going to save you a lot of time by reminding you that the "trial" at the very beginning is being staged for a man who DOES NOT EXIST
He did exist just as two people
There literally is no Robert Angier, though think the entire Scotland yard and privy council couldn't figure this out? They are literally holding a trial for a NON PERSON
Angier was real
In fact there were loads of him
There were copies of lord Caldwell who furthermore cutter - a witness in Amgiers non trial - had actually met.
Did Wolverine really clone himself?
He kept killing his twins
one-upsmanship is a bad way to exist
Bottom line you have to accept that the "trial" at the beginning can not possibly be real since it's all happening for a person who isn't dead and doesn't exist
The corpse they pulled out of the tank was very real. Just because "Robert Angrier" was the pseudonym of Lord Caldlow doesn't make this corpse not exist.
NOBODY NAMED "ANGIER" EVER EXISTED. YOU CANT HOLD A TRIAL FOR THE MURDER OF A FAKE NON PERSON.
You think the cops were just like
>yup all the money comes from lord Caldwell who is also buying all the trial evidence and if we interview him he's literally Angier also cutter knows this
AND JUST GAVE UP? SEEMS LEGIT
There is a corpse, and several witnesses who identify it as Robert Angier. Robert Angier is believed to be an American showman living in Britain, and nobody knows his true identity. Therefore, when "Robert Angier", American showman, turns up dead, there is a trial to determine the guilt of his alleged murderer, Patrick Bateman. You act like they'd somehow be able to call America and ask for his birth certificate to verify he's a real person.
>You act like they'd somehow be able to call America and ask for his birth certificate to verify he's a real person.
THATS EXACTLY WHAT THEY WOULD DO. AND THEY WOULD FIND NO RECORDS ANGIER EVER EXISTED BUT THEY WOULD FIND A PAPER TRIAL TO LORD CALDLOW WHO IS ROBERT ANGIER AND ISN'T DEAD
The US didn't have mandatory birth certificates until 20 years after the setting of the film.
ALL THE MONEY CAME FRON CALDLOWS ACCOUNT WHICH IS NO DOUBT IN A LONDON BANK FURTHERMORE HE BOUGHT THE FUCKING TRIAL EVIDENCE ALARM BELLS ARE RINGING WILLY YOU THINK NOBODY NOTICES THAT LORD CALDLOW IS SNOOPING AROUND THIS FUCKING TRIAL HOLY SHIT
Photo ID wasn't commonplace before the 1950's.
Sure but the MONEY Angier spent on Tesla came from Caldlow and there would be bank receipts... oddly going to the same Caldlow account THAT JUST BOUGHT THE TRIAL EVIDENCE
It's never specified how Angier paid David Bowie, He may have brought him bags of cash. Without birth records and photo identification, there is nothing tying Lord Caldlow to Angier except an uncanny resemblance if someone should happen to meet both men, which Caldlow is carful to avoid. Caldlow is just an eccentric rich guy who wants to buy tricks off a dead magician. He also has a goatee, so he's clearly not even the same guy.
Normally in any criminal investigation you take some time to find out who the corpse is. The cops would discover in about 20 seconds that "Robert Angier" does not exist and all his interests are tied to Caldlow (and his "family") who if they interviewed would discover in fact is Angier. You have to suspend your disbelief at the very outset since the trial is taking place for the murder of a NON PERSON.
But how would they discover that he doesn't exist?
Banking records most probably. The investigation before the trial would reveal no evidence of Robert Angier's existence
There's also parish records of births. Presumably the American embassy as well would be interested in one of the alleged murders of their citizen and when investigated likewise would discover no evidence that Angier is an American or was born or naturalized the US
>the murder of a NON PERSON
"a living man bears a resemblance to this corpse, therefore the corpse DOES NOT EXIST"
this is how dumb you sound
He'd have no idea what the final cost of the machine is before hand all the information we have was that it cost "a fortune". Ditto for all of Angiers associates in the London circus scene- did he pay them allon cash too? How often did Lord Caldlow go to the London bank to take out bags of cash? Nobody noticed all the cash stashed in Angiers apartment?
>bank receipts
What receipts?
>Banking records
What records?
This idea of tracking the flow of money to 100% accurately reveal the sources and payouts is hollywood fantasy on the level of "rotate 79deg about the z axis. enhance" nonsense in modern day let alone over a century ago. It wasn't used in reality in the 2007 disappearance of Les Wexner's fortune in association with Epstein because records that granular simply aren't and never have been kept. Occasionally LEO will vaguely imply this method is how someone got caught but they're never explicit or detailed about it because it isn't true and the fabricated claim is covering up the fact that they were actually caught using unconstitutional surveillance and parallel construction.
A dead human body is proof that a human being died you autistic piece of shit
You don't have to establish somebody's identity for them to be a murder victim they can just be a john doe
Get a hammer and hit yourself in the temple as hard as you can
Breh, they didn't have IDs in those times lol. What, were you expecting him to be carrying around a driver's license? It was enough back then to have a body and have people ID who you were through various recordkeeping. A Robert Angier did exist as a person. Believe it or not, people back then would frequently commit identity fraud because...yeah, their citizenship records were incredibly rudimentary compared to today.
You'd be fucking horrified to learn how lax it was even as late as like 1970.
>AND ISN'T DEAD
They have a corpse. You're going to have a hard time convincing the police there was no murder when they have a murdered body.
They have a wax sculpture
you are a very fragile insecure retard and you should kill yourself immediately
"ELLO AMERKA ID LOIKE THE RECoRD OF SO AND SO"
"What are records?"
Do you think bureaucracies were invented yesterday?
My state cant even find my high school diploma. Democracy is a joke.
You think countries kept immaculate records of every single citizen easily accessible to anyone that asks before computers? You are attempting to apply modern day standards to a film set over a hundred years ago.
^ this
spergs ruin this website
Caldlow was a disguise used by Angier, wasnt it? Angier was real
The machine works and is real. Bottom line. I read the book you jerks. Angiers has an entire mausoleum or crypt full of dead bodies
A rivalry
THE WHOLE TRICK IN THE PRESTIGE IS THE OPENING TRIAL SCENE YOU HSVE TO PAY ATTENTION KIDS
>the good guy had a twin
>the bad guy bought a cloning machine from Tesla
What's not to get here? Are you slow?
it makes far more sense that it was the one-time clone from a machine rather than a twin but movie never makes that leap. I mean, bale sends jackman on a wild goose chase to tesla who could coincidentally akchyually unironically create clones and help him with a trick?
Caine explained what The prestige is... people are not here for seeing things disappear, they are here to see things disappear & reappear with happy ending to the Turn, to experience awe. In a sense Jackman character didn't really understood the prestige as he only made things disappear & die in a tank, it's rather odd as he understood before the prestige as he wanted to save doves from being crushed before, but he lost sight of it trying to one up Bale twins.
Sometimes i wanna kill myself after reading all the hacky talentless comments on this forum. Other times, light.
It was a magic trick
DEFENDER
How large was this tank?
CUTTER
The sort of tank used for underwater
escapes- four or five hundred gallons.
DEFENDER
How do you think Mr.Borden was able
to move the tank under the trap door
without anyone noticing?
CUTTER
Ask him- he's the magician.
OWENS (CONT'D)
I represent Lord Caldlow, and
accomplished amateur magician and
historian of magic
BORDEN
How much?
OWENS
Lord Caldlow is...
OWENS (CONT'D)
Lord Caldlow wanted you to have this-
(produces a leather
bound JOURNAL)
As a show of good faith. He thought
it might be of interest.
OWENS (CONT'D)
Robert Angier's diary... It includes
the time he spent in Colorado learning
OWENS
Lord Caldlow was happy to hear that
you'd reconsidered his offer.
BORDEN
Angier's journal, the "gesture of
good faith"? It's a fake.
OWENS
I assure you it's not.
BORDEN
It has to be- it refers to events
that happened after his death.
OWENS
Clever predictions, I'm sure. The
provenance of the journal is clear
and under no doubt. It's written in
Angier own hand, of which we have
numerous examples.
What makes you think it's a fake?
Thank you for coming, Mr.Owens.
It's fallen to me to dispose of
Mr.Angier's equipment. Looking at
the manifest, it's cleat that Lord
Caldlow has purchased the bulk of
the items.
OWENS
Mr.Cutter, if you needed to know
where to deliver the items you surely
could have justCUTTER
It's not just that, Mr.Owens. There
is a particular item
This time, in fact, that I wish to...
well, that is to say, I want to
OWENS
You wnat to buy it instead.
CUTTER
I suppose so, yes.
OWENS
This is the machine?
I'm afraid Lord Caldlow was adamant
about procuring this particular item.
CUTTER
Perhaps if I dould talk to Lord
Caldlow in person.
OWENS
Out of the question, I'm afraid.
It is only then that he notices the HAND ON HER SHOULDER.
He rises to come face-to-face with Lord Caldlow
BORDEN
(CONT'D)
You must be Lord-
-who is ROBERT ANGIER. Risen from the dead.
ANGIER
(English accent)
Caldlow. Yes, I am. I always have
been.
ANGIER
Hello, Cutter.
CUTTER
You're alive.
(Angier nods)
You're Lord Caldlow.
(Angier nods again)
How?
ANGIER
(shrugs) *
I learned an American accent fromCUTTER
(Angry)
How are you alive, Robert?! I saw
you on the slab, for God's sake.
MOREOVER CUTTER TELLS THE JUDGE THE ILLUSION IS WORTH A LOT OF MONEY ISNT IT ODD LORD CALDLOW IS BUYING THAT EXACT ILLUSION?
The machine clones people that's it.
I guess you weren't watching closely.
the machine didn't work and you're just like the audience of a magic show if you think it did
lol you literally see it working multiple times if it didn't why was it shown?
le movie meta doesn't count, this is a movie, not a magic trick
You see it made to trick other people
you never see it work solely for the purpose of enlightening the audience
frogposter is right, the machine was all an illusion, sometimes used to fool a rival othertimes used to swindle money
Oh and all this is before we get into the murky case of WHAT HAPPENED TO ROOT, although personally I don't think it matters since it's so blatantly evident the trial at the beginning is a stage act
Ok I'll bite. Please explain how the trial is fake and how the cloning didn't really take place
only thing I remember from this mediocre movie is that they used to kill poor birds for their nagger magic tricks
>eats meat
I get it
>le badass twist ending
>thom yorke starts singing with his gay voice
that's how you know you're watching a pseud movie.
yep, it's a kino schizo thread
Was about to say the same thing the fuck is wrong with these posts one thing is prestige-posting but this is like an asylum doing a thesis on the movie
oh good, i thought it was just me
I got invited to a friend's house for the first time in 11 grade along with another guy, and they made me choose the movie
And this was it, this was the movie
Half way through it they're giving me the side eye and communicating with eachother via their eyes, eventually they just ditch it and start doing other stuff
Never got invited ever again
Fuck this movie
Hold on
they can clone Christian Bales and actually kill him every time
seriously? That's ridiculous.
Get the fuck out the way. The superior magician movie is coming through.
90% of this movie is shit but I rank it above The Prestige for one reason only. The train station platform realization scene where Paul Giamatti achieves Nic Cage levels of ham.
better cast, worse movie
Why did he double-knot the rope?
he didn't. It was the other guy
The real question is, how many times did he win the coin toss before the original finally die?
You cant really know if the original is the one being transported or the double is. But since the double is an exact copy it doesn't even matter. In the book does though.
>But since the double is an exact copy it doesn't even matter.
yes because souls exist and magically transfer every time to the copy
Don't bother. I've seen people argue that since from an external perspective it seems the same it is the same. Some people don't have the compute to understand continuity of experience and have been mindbroken by pictures of apples on LCD displays
I aint talking about the significance of the ordeal would be. I am talking about the movie and not the book.
stop being a homosexual
I'm a homosexual because you don't even understand your own existence and it's parameters?
You are a homosexual because the movie doesn't dwell on what really the price would be on doing such a thing but one or two words from tesla. The book really tells you how much you lose but since we are talking about the movie in Cinemaphile and not Cinemaphile it is veridic to say that the double is in fact an exact copy and it doesn't really matter.
>veridic
Good word but
>the double is in fact an exact copy and it doesn't really matter.
Is such a dumb thing to say I'm not going to reply to you again
It happens when you go on tangents. I am sticking simply to the movie and not the morality or how cientifically such a proccess would take place. Keep giving me (you)s retards.
>If you make fun of me for being stupid I win
No kek you dumb fucking child I hope you're at most 14 but even then you should've figured it out already.
You keep them coming bud
>He has given up entirely and is rolling over and offering his bussy
lmao
Keep it up
Imagine being unable to comprehend the difference between the substance of a thing and the appearance of a thing. That's literally tranny logic. Imagine announcing it and then getting butthurt when people laugh at you.
You keep at it boy
You are a dumb dumb dumb motherfucker and I am glad to insult you
And let me repeat for (you)r walnut brain one last time book=/=movie.
>He thinks I'm making fun of him for that
Holy shit how do you even operate a computer? You're phoneposting aren't you? is it an iphone?
>movie
doesn't really dwell on what would happen to the clone or the person being cloned and its implications
>book
does dwell on what would happen to the clone or the person being cloned and its implications
>what is being discused in this thread movie or book?
movie
i really can't explain it easier
Dude you said it doesn't matter since they're identical which I what I took umbridge with.
There are no "implications" the action itself would have one of two outcomes inherently. There is no way it "doesn't matter". Continuity of experience.
Next time don't say dumb things and then double down on those dumb things.
In the movie it doesn't really matter.
In the movie it is extremely important, dude.
He even says he isn't sure if he ends up in the tank or not. That makes a massive difference to the character. IE: is the character currently dead.
There is no way it doesn't really matter.
If he can't tell if he is the one being transported or not it means the clone is an exact copy. So he gets to keep on living either way. And since there is no downside in the movie, it doesn't really matter.
>If he can't tell if he is the one being transported or not it means the clone is an exact copy. So he gets to keep on living either way.
I hope someone else will explain why this is wrong because I don't have the energy to.
the original died every night but since the one that was left had the memory of all the others, his perception is he was the lucky one every single time
There is only one original and when the clone (or maybe original) is relocated to the front of angier the first time they get the machine to work how they expect it to it means he really died and didn't even get to perform on stage. But it doesn't really matter because even tesla said in the movie that they are exact copies.
>But it doesn't really matter because even tesla said in the movie that they are exact copies.
Here we go again
Now tell me this would you really die if an exact copy still lingers? No, not really. I mean you WOULD die because obviously you cease to exist but not really to the rest of the world.
>Imagine being unable to comprehend the difference between the substance of a thing and the appearance of a thing
the original original angier shot the clone when he tested out the machine, so he drowned in the first show
then his clone died the next night and so on
the only reason the one at the end views it as a lottery is because he has the memory of clone after clone after clone until the night of the "murder"
How can you know the machine works as intended and angier didn't die the first time is what i am trying to say. When the clone backs up from the gun and tries to warn them to not to shoot him how do you know wich one is wich?
occam's razor
why complicate shit by theorizing the original was transported elsewhere and then a duplicate was made in the same place when the obvious choice is a duplicate was made elsewhere
2 processes vs 1 process
at what trying to get by saying this is that they are the same individual there is no original or clone. you say that the original died the first time and the clones only get to live on exact day or the time it gets to be on stage to elaborate the act but original or clone it makes not a single difference.
it's subjectivity vs objectivity
subjectively, the one that went into the machine suffered the fate of drowning every night while the clone had the memory of surviving every night
objectively, the more original one died every night
taking the identical nature of the clones aside, would you go into that machine knowing you (not the clone that will live on, for the next day at least) was going to drop through the trap door and drown in a moment?
>the one that went into the machine suffered the fate of drowning every night
*meant they drowned THAT night but remembered surviving other nights
its about the prestige man
Think of it like a photocopier. Does the thing you scan switch places with the copy or does it remain in its original position while the machine gathers the necessary information to make a copy and feeds the result from a different part?
you stupid fucking chud of a moron. If someone creates a copy of you and then kills you, you're dead. Of course it fucking matters. Copy lives but (you) are dead
I know you're meming but the fact this bait works and idiots think transhumanism will mean "uploading" their brains to machines scares me deeply
The device is actually a soul teleporter. It leaves behind the physical husk, and creates a new vessel at the arrival point for the soul to inhibit. Only a creature with a soul can feel joy, which is why the teleported Angier is happy. But then he gets shot by the husk, which then continues on with the teleportation, but Angier isn't really there anymore to enjoy the fruits of his labors.
Yeah it's a Christopher Nolan film you're not supposed to
the scene where bale walks the woman back to her house and she goes inside to find the brother there as a magic trick... did they already know where she lived or the brother had to stalk them in the shadows for the entire date and break in while the other one kept her occupied at the door?
>infinite matter replicator
>all he can think to use it for is a lame parlor trick that involves killing one of your clones every single time
dont you get it man? dont you get it maaan? its about the prestige man
You wouldn't get it.
and cats. You can sell the cats to the chinese for opium and then sell that for profit
yeah, if he wanted the dicky so badly, he should've just cloned her
clearly you dont burn prestige
>infinite scarlatt johanssons
So did Batman clone himself and decide to share his life as as apposed to Wolverine who chose to kill off his clones? I still seems kinda strange that Bateman would go to America, clone himself, and then go back to UK to be a small time magic show helping hand
The Prestige and Interstellar are kino
Congratulations, you guys are marks, just like Borden. You believed in the science fiction nonsense Angier came up with to trick Borden. The tanks had dummies, not real bodies.
teslas machine worked too good
You can see the top wobble slightly at the end
Why is this movie praised?
Spoilers:
Doesn't Hugh Jackman see that he kills himself by drowning in the end of the movie? Doesn't any sane viewer think to themselves, "Wow that's really retarded to invente FUCKING CLONING and then decide to kill yourself forever with that ability in the worst possible way to die (drowning) just for like 100 people who paid 3 cents for a ticket."
Like that's really really really fucking dumb.
Why did one of the clones need to die every time?
Because he was framing a man for murder and didn't know when the patsy would finally go beneath the stage.
That's not. He was killing them because he didn't want to let evidence of how the trick was performed. Audience thought it was indeed magic.
So the original wolverine drowned on the night of the very first performance?
After that there were only clones
He got shot, remember.
That's if you don't listen to fakemachine fags
Dunno. The clone and the original both inherit the memories (I think), so it's never clear which is the clone and which is the original. Jackman talks about courage going through it every night, not knowing if he would end up being the one in the tank. Maybe the original kept surviving, or maybe at some point a clone survived and thought they were the original.
Crazy how the guy alive at the end wouldn't have a memory of drowning, huh?
Wouldn't have to, you only inherit the living memories, leading you to think you were the original. It could go like:
Original (survived) / Clone 1 (shot)
Original (survived) / Clone 2 (drowned)
Original (survived) / Clone 3 (drowned)
Original (survived) / Clone 4 (drowned)
Original (survived) / Clone 5 (drowned)
Or
Original (survived) / Clone 1 (shot)
Original (drowned) / Clone 2 (survived)
Clone 2 (survived) / Clone 3 (drowned)
Clone 2 (drowned) / Clone 4 (survived)
Clone 5 (drowned) / Clone 4 (survived)
2nd example implies that the machine isn't consistent in its application and spits clones and originals out at random. The guy standing in the machine over the trap door is either a clone every time or the clone from last night.
>2nd example implies that the machine isn't consistent in its application and spits clones and originals out at random
Why isn't that possible? We have no idea how it works.
Because Tesla wasn't a retard.
He cartainly is not but the machine isn't perfect and as he said it doesn't do what he wants it to do
In that the device needed calibration. Not that it was a lottery machine bouncing atoms into and out of existence at random.
His quotes imply that the machine didn't work as expected.
>Nikola Tesla : Exact science, Mr Angier, is not an exact science.
>Nikola Tesla : Things don't always go as planned, Mr. Angier. That's the beauty of science.
I want to believe that the machine was fake
>Cinemaphile really argues about The Prestige this hard and will still say that Nolan is a hack
Nolan is a total hack and the movie was based on a book. Just like his most famous movies were based on comic books. This is your opportunity to defend the Dark Knight Rises by the way/
>and the movie was based on a book
The vast majority of famous Hollywood movies are based on books
Why he didn't just used the clone machine once, just once, in order to have a clone of himself who can use to do the trick of the teleported man just like Bale is doing it with his Twin? Zero deaths and you can finally have incest with yourself.
Did you see what happened with the first clone? They wanted to kill each other.
The first clone actually asked him to wait, he wanted to kill it though
he did use it, Tesla made him the machine, he used it and realized he can't keep using it. he spared the clone's life and they started an act together
For one, he didn’t think of it. He never knew Bale's trick. For two, he was unwilling to devote his time and energy to maintaining the ploy and refused to spend half his life in disguise.
How is there this much discussion? It's pretty cut and dry.
It's a story about the dangers of envy and realizing your limitations as well as the dangers of pride. Bale's character was more talented but pushed the envelope too much when he was young. After meeting Tesla and accidentally creating a clone he decided to work with the clone in a way that would work out best within reason, though his pride in his work still hindered his relationships. Hackman was blinded by envy and wrathful thoughts and thus upon learning of the cloning machine used it in ethically questionable ways to outclass his rival but cursing him to a lonely existence that always ended in excruciating pain and death.
It's also about how simplicity is somehow the best solution, even if it means more commitment. Either Bale had a twin or a clone, they just decided to work together pretending to be only one person. It's such a simple trick that you wouldn't believe it at first. Not only Wolverine didn't want a simple trick, he couldn't accept a simple answer, it had to be something outstanding.
Just watched the scene: Caine actually tells Wolverine that Boden uses a double. He doesn't even say "maybe", he states it as a fact. The answer is just there. Wolverine doesn't WANT to believe it because it'd be "too simple". He can't find any enjoyment on simple things.
Yes, Wolverine would never accept that a simple trick could be executed so well because he didn't have the talent or patience to master a trick
>de. Bale's character was more talented but pushed the envelope too much when he was young. After meeting Tesla and accidentally creating a clone
This never happened. Fallon was Bale's twin.
No, he wasn't, this tired smoothbrain headcannon needs to die. Literally, there is ZERO implication he had a twin im the story yet it is heavily insenuated he was cloned.
Why would he search out Tesla if he already had his act?
If they were perfect clones and not twins, why do their personalities differ? Why do the two "clones" love 2 different women, why does one of them insist on tying a different knot?
The diary was a fake, Batman wrote it to drive Wolverine on a wild goose chase. He just has a twin.
>After meeting Tesla and accidentally creating a clone he decided to work with the clone in a way that would work out best within reason, though his pride in his work still hindered his relationships.
None of this is in the movie you stupid fuck. Tesla builds the machine for Jackman and doesn't even understand how it works at first. He wasn't playing dumb and had a spare machine in the backroom that he'd built years before that.
Are you watching closely?
Reminder: the machine never worked.
It's pretty simple at the end it turns out that the main character (serious looking dude with dark hair) actually has a brother who is gay. They don't like talking about him so they stuck him in a closet or something idk it's been awhile.
The movie would have been better without the cloning plot
prove me wrong
You can watch the whole thing and assume all the clones are fake. When I first saw it I thought the machine was teleworking Jackman to other realities
I know it's the meme theory and not true but assuming the machine is a scam only adds to the film for me. It just fits so nicely compared to 'lol magic cloning machine'
To me the thing about The Prestige that's completely ridiculous is that it introduces a machine that defies fucking thermodynamics and is the most incredible thing to ever exist and results in a guy making dozens of clones of himself, and then it tries to one up that with the shocking ultimate reveal that "Christian Bale had a twin brother". It would be like the characters discovering proof of the existence of God and then getting down to the mystery of who ate the last piece of cake. It is so wildly out of proportion and anti-climactic.
This is true because at heart its a little Menandearin comedy about two sets of twin brothers
Missed the point lebbitor
Obsession and personal wonder always trumps everything.
What was that about Tesla and Edison?
Tesla supported alternating current which is now widely accepted as superior for domestic commercial use but since Edison controlled General Electric his direct current infrastructure gained a monopoly
I know that but in the movie
This is Nolands best movie since he finally understood how obsession is really about man's relationship with cinema and voyeurism. The form isn't a tool for story, story is a tool for form