I don't get it. What use would a dragon have for gold? Or currency of any kind, really? Money represents opportunity and wealth is sought after because it can be exchanged to better your lot in life or otherwise attain things that are pleasurable to you/those you care about. A dragon hasn't got any use for anything money could buy him, and even if he did I cannot imagine any merchant being willing to sell their wares to a murderous beast. But despite this, he goes to great lengths to raze entire cities and villages in his everlasting search for treasure to hoard.
His greed is innate and without justification. For all the credit Tolkien is given as a writer... I was left unimpressed by this character. I expected more.
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It's not about having it its about making sure manlets don't have it
>His greed is innate and without justification.
That's the point.
in universe dragons are demons of of greed that were shart out out of glaurung's cloaca
It's simply in his nature, you moron
>It's simply in his nature
Yes, and that is bad writing.
Greed is a secondary motivation in service to some other defining trait. A king that desires gold and fancy gems might do so in service to his pride, a thief steals money from others out of envy... and so on. Nowhere is it stated what compels Smaug to hoard his grand wealth.
>Greed is a secondary motivation in service to some other defining trait.
No, greed is desire without justification.
>Greed (or avarice) is an uncontrolled longing for increase in the acquisition or use of material gain (be it food, money, land, or animate/inanimate possessions); or social value, such as status, or power.
I see no such stipulation that greed must be baseless or otherwise unaffected by secondary reasons.
Smaug is not a frog. Nor is he an animal... he is capable of higher intelligence, speech and problem-solving. He is no more an animal than Treebeard.
Its a Beowulf thing. The dragon in Beowulf gets woken up bc someone takes a cup from his lair and the dragon attacks the entire kingdom over it
Tolkein was a medieval lit scholar, so obviously the dragon is inspired by the Beowulf dragon
Fafnir in the Norse Sagas and the whole chasing the dwarves out of their kingdom thing too.
Also theodens horse and rider speech being based on the anglo saxon poem the wanderer
>Where is the horse gone?
>Where the rider?
>Where the giver of treasure?
>Where are the seats at the feast?
>Where are the revels in the hall?
>Alas for the bright cup!
>Alas for the mailed warrior!
>Alas for the splendour of the prince!
>How that time has passed away,
>dark under the cover of night,
>as if it had never been!
Having higher intelligence does not automatically free someone from their nature. Hobbits have higher intelligence, yet they are still peaceful folk that enjoy calm and good food. Dwarves have higher intelligence, yet they still mine and drink and smith.
Yet these racially-specific natures serve an evolutionary purpose and allow said races to flourish in their respective ways. The gold does nothing for a dragon, nothing to bring it pleasure or allow it an advantage for survival or reproduction.
>Darwinism
You should read the first few pages of BAP book. Did you know that monkeys in captivity jerk off but never do that when they are free in nature? What evolutionary purpose is that?
> What evolutionary purpose is that?
dopamine drives them to do stuff in nature. when they are captive they dont have much stuff to do so they become addicted to jerking off for their dopamine release .
I don't think you know what dopamine is
Wolves in captivity also form alpha schizo male hierarchies built on violence and dominate, yet nowhere in nature, on the globe was this ever observed - they literally form family units where the oldest is the leader and they spoil their kids and play all the time.
The army got its alpha concept from those very ancient flawed studies.
Just because the dragon's nature doesn't have an evolutionary purpose doesn't mean that it isn't still his nature and that he is powerless to unconsciously defy it.
>nothing to bring it pleasure
Dumbass, having the gold IS the pleasure.
>evolutionary
Dragons were created by Morgoth
Sub-created
It feeds his narcissism. Smaug loves himself. When he is bigger, stronger, smarter, and has more treasure that you, he thoroughly enjoys it. It proves everything he knows is right about himself; he's better than you.
>evolutionary
>flourish
There's, like, 4 dragons.
CREATED, by the way, by Morgoth.
They didn't evolve from generations over millions of years of breeding. And they have no intent to share. Anything. Ever.
humans were created by god but that didn't stop us from evolving
dont forget, morgoth couldnt CREATE anything. he could only corrupt what was or was being made.
Therefore dragons are innately good.. yet...
only explanation is that this particular one is autistic
>However, some survived and fled to the far north, where in later years they would slowly start to multiply.
https://lotr.fandom.com/wiki/Dragons
>The gold does nothing for a dragon, nothing to bring it pleasure or allow it an advantage for survival or reproduction.
"Smaug had lain so long on the heap of treasure in the deep of the Lonely Mountain that gems and coins had become encrusted in the slime, so that he was "armored above and below with iron scales and hard gems""
That had taken effect long after he had started hoarding gold, and is itself a byproduct of lying on it for so long. He had no way of knowing the benefits it would give before he started.
How does a wild bear know which berries are safe to eat and why it should avoid diseased meat? It has no way of knowing the consequences beforehand
Smell and taste
But how does it *know* that those smells and tastes are bad for it?
God made sure of that by giving him instincts.
And instincts are a part of a bear's...? Come on anon, we're almost there!
Bears eat poison berries and spoiled meat all the time. They have very strong stomachs and usually don’t need to give a frick.
It’s a world created by God and a bunch of spirits via a song bro
Greed is not his secondary reason. Greed is his primary reason.
His sentience concludes that he wants treasure. He's come to agree what treasure is when it is of material substance... and he takes it. And keeps it.
>Why?
Because he is greedy.
>But there's no reason for it.
Correct.
>That's bad.
He is evil.
>No, that's a bad character.
You cannot comprehend example. He personifies unjustifiable desire. Do not become like Smaug. Letting such malicious emotion to motivate your actions is not a positive trait.
Is it bad writing to say that frogs jump simply because it is in their nature to do so?
subversive israelites would say yes
It's not bad writing, you have poor understanding of character.
Smaug is of "bad character." He does not have reason. He isn't justified.
He's a dragon.
Powerful. Persistent. Petty.
He takes because he wants. Not because he needs. He's evil.
He kills when he wishes. He is strong. Strong. STRONG. His armor is like ten-fold shield; his teeth are like swords;, his claws, SPEARS. A crack of his tail, a THUNDERBOLT. His wings, a HURRICANE. And his breath... DEATH.
Very... very, impressive...
HOWEVER...
>however
I knew it. I fricking knew it.
What was that? More riddles!?
>onions smaug
Honestly one of my favorite depictions of Smaug. Doesn't deserve the hate I see it get sometimes.
Why is he a cat?
Just because your nature is being homosexual it doesn't mean is ba... oh, right. Forget about it.
he's just an butthole satan simple as
>Yes, and that is bad writing.
the humans want the wealth, therefore he has control over the humans
someone had better of said this already
>Greed is a secondary motivation
I can tell you as greedy miser myself that I dont really care about what I want to buy with my money I just want to have money for the sake of having it. Whenever the bank account number goes up I experience a shot of dopamine like im on heroin. Thats what the dragon was probably about as well
It's shiny.
Crows behave the exact same way, they just steal shiny objects - usually expensive ones by our standards and hoard them.
Is smaug as simple and short term minded as a bird?
This is the answer. If you wrote a cheque for a billion dollars the dragon wouldn't give a frick. They want shiny stuff.
people think tolkien dragons are animals, they aren't, they are literal handcrafted demons
Wtf? Big, if true
Yeah basically they all came from Glaurung who literally had demonic powers and was focused on making the life of one guy miserable
If i'm not mistaken, in the books of sillmarillion it's
said that Morgoth used part of his life forces to
create dragons, balrogs and etc.
balrogs are maiar morgoth didnt create balrogs
tolkiens dragons are smarter than the average human and can cast spells; no one thinks they're animals
By animals I mean like us humans are animals. Beings born from nature.
They are like """"""artillery tanks""""" morgoth made
wracu are sure, but then they are created with tekne
Everything in Adar is hand crafted by gods.
I know but you get what I mean, he is not some sentient being with free will that can have a change of heart
he is literally MADE for BBC (Being a Bad c**t)
which movie mentions this? oh none of them?
have a nice day
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germanic_dragon#Common_traits
I accept your concession
Tolkien’s dragon is Germanic dragon, rings of power is also from Germanic in origin.
They aren't demons, they are magical, corrupted beasts bred by Melkor though. Melkor could not create life, only corrupt it. Balrogs are "demonic" evil Maiar spirits though.
Speaking of which nobody replied to my theory about how Orcs were created last time I posted it.
Recall that Melkor had "a part in all the gifts of his brethren" and that Mandos deals with the souls of dead elves.
It never sat right with me that Melkor just tortured some elves really hard and suddenly their genes changed and their children became orcs.
One of Tolkien's proposed origins for orcs was "created from the slimes of the earth". My theory is a synthesis of that and the Silmarillion explanation.
I think Melkor created disgusting, ruined orc bodies with no life, same as Aule created the dwarves, and he used his share in "Mandos' gift" to imprison elf souls in these bodies after torturing them past the breaking point and killing them.
Thus Melkor created orcs but did not create new life, only stole it from Illuvatar's children. As he wasted his power over the course of the first age, he lost this ability.
I think Melkor created them, and the "tortured elves" line is just a story. Melkor is said to have "abused the privileges he was granted above the others", so its possible he could genuinely outright create life. Melkor created dragons, and they are evil but majestic and powerful, i dont think he would deliberately create something ruined, ugly and relatively weak. I think orcs were Melkor attempting to imitate or mock elves, but he wasnt yet very accomplished at creation, and so did not do a very good job. I think melkor improves his skills with wargs, trolls and then dragons. I dont think he lost the ability to create more, but simply didnt manage to before getting thrown out of arda, and didnt care to improve on orcs, or perhaps he did and the better ones simply died in the war of wrath along with many cool things.
Elf souls are tied to arda, i dont think it would be possible to imprison them in different bodies, and prevent them from returning to the halls of mandos.
I thought only Illuvatar had the power to actually create life.
As for Dragons, I assumed that they were Maia inhabiting constructed bodies.
For creatures like fell beasts, maybe Melkor does had the power of mutating living creatures on a genetic level.
Morgoth created many biological beings, but its assumed that none of them have a soul, only Eru can do that
Tolkien contradicts himself constantly on dozens of matters, and on dozens more states "it is said" as if he himself didnt know, likely as he didnt know and just wanted to leave it a mystery. E.g. How many balrogs are there? Tolkien says 1000 in one letter, and 3-7 in another, but then mentions them participating in massive centuries long wars after the death of 2 at gondolin, which preculdes there being 3 and makes 7 unlikely. Likewise with life, in one letter he mentions that melkor has a "highest privilege" to create things for himself, and yet in another he says only illuvatar can give life and that Aule could only create bodies. So this leaves several options:
1) Illuvatar gives life to Melkor's creations without having to be asked, even to the detriment of the "loyal" valar, because as he tells Melkor, everything he does is simply part of his plan and creation, and Melkor can never do anything but serve it. So perhaps it is part of his plan that Melkor create these things. And indeed, ultimately, Melkor can cause suffering, but he cant control where spirits go or the inevitability of the end of the world, perhaps Illuvatar simply decides to allow it, knowing that in the long run his evil wont outlive Eru's creation, yet all of the spirits will, having had a chance to prove themselves and make tales worthy of song by fighting the evil provided to them.
2) Melkor co-opts life/spirits to his own ends. Magically transforming lizards into dragons, and other small and insignificant creatures into orcs, wargs, trolls, giants etc. Or uses the spirits from various creatures to inhabit bodies he has created.
3) Melkor has the ability to outright create life, spirit and body, in of himself. This is a privilege and power that Illuvatar gave to him.
4) Melkor creates spirits by channeling the will and power of Illuvatar, and is unique in this privilege, and retains it despite his evil work.
The explanation that's most widely known, which is what is published in The Silmarillion, is that he corrupted things that already existed. He corrupted elves into orcs, ents into trolls, Maiar into Balrogs, and there must be some creature he corrupted to create dragons, but it's never explained. Neither are Sauron's fell beasts.
Christopher Tolkien was just doing his best trying to connect everything together, Tolkien didnt solidify most of his theories in his lifetime. It was christopher, not JRR, who published the silmarillion. Christopher Tolkien published that theory in the silmarillion, but it was one of a great many, and its entirely plausible that JRR himself hadnt made up his mind, or intended that as the commonly given in-universe explanation but not neccessarily the truth (he uses "it is said" quite a lot), or else wanted to leave it ambiguous. Ents have nothing to do with trolls, Balrogs arent corruptions they are just a group of maiar who have decided to assume a particular form, maiar have the ability to shapeshift (unless constrained like the Istari) and any Balrog can stop being so at will. The orc debate is its own matter, Orcs being "corrupted elves" is not anywhere definitively stated, it is just an in-universe theory as told by Saruman, one of several in-universe theories.
The reason the orcs being corrupted elves theory was published in The Silmarillion is because it was the only coherent theory that he developed that also aligned with his idea that Melkor could not create life. The idea that Melkor could create life was an earlier one, which he eventually disliked, so the idea that orcs were made out of earth was not carried forward once he scrapped the idea that Melkor could create life. Balrogs are absolutely Maiar that share in Melkor's corruption.
>Balrogs arent corruptions they are just a group of maiar who have decided to assume a particular form, maiar have the ability to shapeshift (unless constrained like the Istari) and any Balrog can stop being so at will.
Balrogs are the Maiar servants of Melkor, from the very beginning, they aligned themselves with Melkor in the singing of creation before any being descended to Arda, therefore when they came to Arda they were bound to the form of firey demons as best reflects their spiritual nature from the beginning. I think Tolkien was specific in implying Balrogs cannot shapeshift like other Maiar who decided to side with Melkor later on after they had taken bodies on Arda.
or option 5, Melkor uses other spirits to make his lesser creations, but uses part of his own "spirit" in creating the first dragons, which then beget themselves as a species, which are all essentially Melkor. I'm less sure about this one though, as Glaurung had the ability to disobey and had a personality of his own, he seemed much more like a 'child' of melkor than a fragment or copy. Which is option 6)
6) Melkor/other maia have the ability to shapeshift. Melkor creates or alters a form, and transfers or co-opts its spirit, the maia assume said form, frick one another and/or the creations, and so create a new race. However i dont like the idea of bestiality/sex existing in LOTR so i dont like this theory.
Aule was given permission by Illuvatar to make the dwarves.
Tolkien said in a Letter, that Melkor had abussed his "highest privilege" by creating things for his own. Eru sang everything into existence, including spirits. It could be that Melkor could actually create life, but had to use the "raw materials" avaliable to him, like Aule, however unlike Aule he could perhaps imbue it with a spirit, or maybe corrupt or co-opt existing spirits. Perhaps Melkor has the power of rapid and forceful evolution, which is essentially the same as having the power to create life.
It is stated that Melkor could only 'create' minions in one of two ways.
>1. He sculpts physical bodies and then controls them with his own will like puppets, the drawback is these Golems require is constant will and attention upon them to remain animated.
>2. He can twist and corrupt existing beings and empower them greatly from what they once were by imparting some of his own finite power into them at the cost of diminishing his own personal might.
In the case of the Dragons I go by the theory it is pretty much the latter with a slight caviat. From the original marring of Arda we are told Melkor caused animals to become creatures of horns and ivory that hurt and attacked other creatures. It is probably that these clawed and horned animals existed deep in the earth under Angband, these creatures he then proceeded to feed fel meats (much like Sauron did to produce the fel beasts). But crucially he also imparted his power into them to grow them and make them terrible, and also he invested some of his own mind into them, so they thought as he thought and in such a way could 'create' sentience within them by proxy.
This would explain why Dragons are universally evil and greedy. In the Children of Hurin when you read Glaurungs dialogue you may as well consider it to be Morgoth speaking, which I like to do.
But that's wrong.
Creating let's say a giant malicious bull that attacks anything in sight and wants to maim and cripple people is one thing ... but creating a fully intelligent dragon that can discuss things with you and is basically a fully intelligent being is totally different.
Just pour your malice into it, bro.
See
He can 'create' intelligence by shifting his own onto them, I don't see any contradiction with what Tolkien says in his writings. I think you underestimate the might of Melkor. He cannot create truly unique new life but he can apportion his own spirit into other beings in an effort the cheat his prohibition of creation. Obviously you can think whatever you like, there are different theories. But its more satisfying to me than the idea that he somehow could capture intelligent creatures that nobody knows of, or torture and twist the eagles or something.
It could just be that Tolkien separates monsters from natural life in his mind. Melkor can create all he wants but it'll always end up a corrupted reflection of what he really desires which is to be like Eru.
Perhaps, but Tolkien is very specific on the matter. At the very beginning he states that Melkor could not create life as he wished because he could not find the flame imperishable, and he could not find it because it was within Eru and only he can impart that flame into anything else. So from the very beginning we learn that you need that flame to have a soul. This is what leads to Melkors cosmic hissy fit in the first place. Any creations of him are subcreations because he has to tap into his own power granted to him by Eru which is finite and dimishes him the more he uses it. So even monsters must fundamentally originate with Eru, Melkor just spoiled them into his own image to immitate creation. Much like Aule immitated Eru with his Dwarves, both are like children trying vanely to be like their Father, one in reverence and the other in rebellion.
Does having a soul in Arda mean anything more than you go to the halls of Mandos after dying? I don't think that happens to orcs so they can be said to be soulless.
If Eru imparted the flame imperishable into a being it means they have autonomy to act and live in the world and help shape it for good or ill by their own free will, so that they might know the good of the world that Eru intended. It means also that they all should have some role to play in the reshaping of the world free of Arda at the end of all things although the different races have slightly different fates assigned to their souls.
On the matter of Orcs its difficult because Tolkien himself couldnt' work out what their nature was in the beginning and upon their death. We know they are now mortal, but if we go by the theory they are corrupted Elves and we know that Elves spirits can flee their body in greif or trauma and go to the halls of mandos it is possible that much of their Elven spirit had fled their Orc body as it such a trauma and rape of their original self. There must be something still left of their spirit however for them to thinking autonomous beings as well though. We don't know but my headcanon is that even Orcs upon death know peace from the evil domination of the dark lords and can find some kind of reunification with their original elf nature in the halls of Mandos.
Not every orc was an elf though were they? At some point they just turn into a breeding race like everything else.
True, I honestly don't know how this works. Somehow they became mortal beings that could replicate in the manner of men. This has led people to suggest that Orcs started off as corrupted elves but were then merged with men through dark sorcery to make them more sustainable. But in reality Tolkien never explained it, so its all just speculation.
it's self evident you fricking idiot
this one you fricking homosexual
>'O' Silmarillion
have a nice day brownie
All dragons are demonic in nature, otherwise you're just dealing with a large lizard.
it was a different time
>His greed is innate and without justification.
Hence, greed.
>His greed is innate and without justification.
Yeah. Maybe kind of like how wanting gold and fancy gems in real life is kind of pointless...
He isn't after money - tokens representing value of labor and goods, he's after treasure - pretty shiny things.
And he hasusefir his treasure, that's where he sleeps
It's called "hoarding."
Yes that is the point
cus it's shiny homie, animals like shiny shit
The dragons hoarding gold thing goes back to Beowulf
NO SHUT UP ITS BAD WRITING BECAUSE I SAID SO?
ITS BAD WRITING BECAUSE...IT JUST IS ALRIGHT!
>t. OP
>NOOOO TOLKIEN ACTUALLY STOLE IT CAUSE HE'S A TALENTLESS HACK SO IF U WANT ANSWERS THEN GO BOTHER THE AUTHOR HE STOLE IT FROM NOT MY PRECIOUS SPECIAL TOLKIENRINO
coping subhumans
This. A liege lord would be buried with the gold hoard he had obtained during his life "put back to sleep in the earth, just as useless as it ever was". So much bloodshed and warfare, loss of human life in the pursuit of more gold, so that it might be buried in the end. The dragon hoards it, and the price of obtaining it from him is death. It is an anglo saxon commentary on the futility and wasteful nature of this cycle
If a man slayed this dragon his entire bloodline would be set for life. People always pay a lot for priceless israeliteels and gold and artifacts.
Smaug was retired and didn't trust the fractional reserve banking system of men.
>Smaug was retired and didn't trust the fractional reserve banking system of men.
MY HEMIPENES ARE SPEARS
Please stop being anti-Semitic.
smaug and some other drakes have soft bellys, thus them sleeping on, and laying in gold covers their belly in gold and gems as a sort of armor, sort of silly i know but also cool, its fantasy
seems kind of dumb for a flying creature to have its weakness on its underside
it's not like it's getting attacked from the air
>it's not like it's getting attacked from the air
By the Sun. Constantly.
Dragons in the legendarium drag their bellies on the ground, and generally fight on the ground. That's why the belly is weak. It's also a trope in German folklore.
Why not sleep on iron ore then? In minecraft gold is an inferior ore if your purpose is to build armors.
gold doesn't rust/tarnish, which a big part of the reason why it has always been considered valuable IRL
>always
Well apparently not before some Anatolian city state decided to use it in mixture with silver (roughly 2500 years ago) and then, only after that, kings started to mint coins in gold to pay their armies.
You're looking at it wrong. Don't think of Smaug as some kind of worldly creature with worldly needs. Think of him as a demon.
Demons don't poke you with pitchforks because Satan gives them 10 bucks per hour to do it, they're doing it because your screaming makes their pps hard.
Dragons hoard gold. That's been a part of their story since they were first dreamed up. Whether they do it in a scientific way (gold isn't affected by the acidic fluids dragons exude that allow them to fly and breathe fire which makes it the best material to lay on when resting) or for myriad fantasy reasons, dragons must have their gold.
>I don't get it. What use would a dragon have for gold? Or currency of any kind, really?......
true
>His greed is innate and without justification
thats kinda the point
No gold for dwarves the chosen people.
who was stronger, Smaug or Carcaroth
Glaurung
I don't get it. What use would does this Anon have to make this post? Or a post of any kind, really? Money represents opportunity, and wealth is sought after because it can be exchanged to better your lot in life or otherwise attain things that are pleasurable to you/those you care about. But (You)s haven't got any use and can't buy him anything, and even if he did get a ton of (You)s, I cannot imagine any merchant being willing to sell their wares to him for them. But despite this, he goes to great lengths to make posts, searching for the perfect one to gather the most (You)s to hoard.
His greed is innate and without justification. For all the credit Anon is given as a writer... I was left unimpressed by his character. I expected more.
is there a more based dragon than glaurung? i seriously want to know if there are
No, he was based until the very end
i was talking in all fiction. its an objective fact he's the most based in lotr
Big homie Ancalagon
>compels you to ignore your girlfriend as she's being raped and then impaled
>mindrapes your sister to forget she's your sister and then fall in love with you
>brings back her memories when she thinks you're dead so she commits sudoku
This b***h was a coldhearted bastard
here comes ancal*gon tards
what use do ravens and crows have for hoarding shiny things?
They don't eat us, it's a common misconception. They actually eat gold and treasure, that's why they're always sitting on a pile of it.
Because Smaug is a living embodiment of israelitery made manifest
Smaug is the Middle Earth incarnation of Donald Trump. He cares about nothing but himself, desires all the wealth in existence, and encompasses all seven deadly sins.
Its the trope of rich people wanting money for the sake of money.
Old money families push it as a way of distracting people from their real goals but at the same time the dumb goy new money individuals they select as puppets often do care only about money
it's symbolic you children
Dragons are magpies corrupted by Melkor
What did Smaug do before? Was he a poorgay? Did other dragons make fun of him? Did his mom told him to go and get mountain of gold and a maiden because all their neighbor dragons already did and it was getting embarassing?
he stocked shelves in a department store while listening to joe rogan and jordan peterson on his wireless earbuds. he was looksmaxxing and trying dermaroller and minoxidil, didn't work out and he couldn't get a date so he just decided to hoard gold and slaughter villages instead
By hoarding gold humans go after it which brings them free food.
Doesn't really check out. He would require a great deal of daring adventurers to satisfy his daily caloric requirements. Just sitting on his hoard, generating heat maintaining his immense size would require dozens of people each day, much more if he had spent time exerting himself by flying. No, I think it's more likely that he subsists off some other source. Any ideas?
Maybe he eats gold and powers his body by nuclear fission.
You know, this checks out. It also explains why he's so quick to ravenously defend his hoard -- he'd starve to death in a matter of days if he were to lose it. He's not just obeying some nonsensical desire for gold, he's attempting to sustain a food source and avoid starvation. Now this is what I was looking for.
Autism
Doesn't have to be his only source of food, but having gold means bunch of humans will come for it.
>noo you can't enjoy hoarding wealth if you're a mile long killing machine
Dragons are magical lizards that basically hibernate for long periods of time. They can live off very little food.
Thinking of them as real animals obeying the laws of physics is autistic and pointless.
see
>I was looking for other people's headcanon
>That's what I think discussing on Cinemaphile is; writing fanfiction
Gandalf goes in all fields
But that type of autism is what the internet promotes, virtually every single influencer thinks like that.
He was the king if the israelites
>manlets take all the good comfy caves
>fills it with all the gold shit
>tried of there BS like they own the world
>take there gold and make them seethe for 100s of years at a time
>repet
tbh i wish i was a dragon with a twitter account in middle earth
Tolkien’s dragon is just ripoff of Beowulf and Siegfried, everything from dragon hibernating in cave, hoarding golden, being greedy, etc. came from there
this isn't some mystery, homie was autistic about scandinavian folklore
I wonder what he would think of Hilda
Smaug's last name was Goldberg. You figure it out.
i understand it now
Dragons literally COOM to the feel of gold sliding and cascading between their scales.
he just wanted to absorb the metal
>I cannot imagine any merchant being willing to sell their wares to a murderous beast.
You lost me there, are you this naive?
He's just an ex-con trying to go straight and get his kids back.
If you want the no meme answer here it is. Tolkien was a linguist that dedicated a fairly important portion of his life to translate old Norse tales and those clearly influenced his work. LOTR has a fairly lot in common with the Nibelungenlied (song of the nibelungs) and i believe Beowulf to have influenced it as well. In any case the point is that he did not invent the archetype of the greedy dragon himself; it as already present in those stories. In the Nibelungenlied there is a character named Fafnir for example. His story changes a little from version to version but the gist of it is that he was not always a dragon. He often starts as either a human or a dwarf that tries to exhort treasure from others, in some versions he obtains the gold from Odin himself but the king of the gods puts a curse on the treasure and he eventually become the creature to guard it, in other versions he enslaves his kind and forces his brother to make him a magic helmet and that`s what turns him into a dragon. Similar stories can be found on other stories like Beowulf. In that one i think the hero defeats a monster and then goes hunting for her mother but the creature tricks and seduce him. They frick like rabbits and Beowulf then tells everyone he has slayed the beast. Years later his son, the dragon, comes to visit. In any case the point is that dragons hardly ever start their lives as such, they are manifestations of mortal weaknesses and negative traits.
Nicely put
So your cope is that he blatantly stole this part from some older piece of fiction and so the onus of explaining this behaviour lies with that author and not the hack who plagurised it for his own stories?
its about controlling the goyi- i mean humans, its about keeping them under heel so they can be easily controlled.
This was one of those extremely rare Cinemaphile threads, one every few months type of deal that was extremely interesting and useful to read.
A relief.
He had autism and gold was his special interest.
>autism
>israeli
there I fixed it. Also nice dubs masonman.
Dragons are attracted to shiny things and have a natural urge to collect them.
HonoUrable chuckle
Dragons nest on their gold because it’s a soft metal. They can’t use materials that will catch on fire. They collect it in excess in anticipation of their future brood, and simply because they have an instinct to horde, like a magpie.
A dragon represents the place within you that you are most afraid to look. It holds treasure and virgins because those are the material things you want the most, but simultaneously represent the higher spiritual virtues of truth and wholeness. There is literally no explanation needed for why dragons hoard these things because even a baby intuitively understands. Only an adult can forget when they become lost in the world and can no longer interpret symbols.
Just give this a read and you'll understand.
Isn’t this out of print?
I'm sure you can find it on Amazon and other sites.
>tfw still have the copy my parents got decades ago
>He thinks Tolkien invented dragons
>For all the credit Tolkien is given as a writer... I was left unimpressed by this character
dumb child, the movies aren't like the books. The movies are degenerated pale imitations of the books, and if you liked anything about them that is because of how much better the books are in their pure state.
the character is exactly as shallow and pedantic in the book
>the villain in this children's book isn't deep enough
You ever heard of an archetype, moron?
Weird opinion. Smaug is really well done in both adaptations.
>t. olkien is my favorite author
They hoard it in case the dollar crashes
Dragons are the incels of the reptile world
> haha you think inflation negatively impacts people lol this schizo thinks rich people use their power to influence monetary policy
I wish everyone who made comics like this would kill themselves painfully.
You should have a lot in common then.
it shiny, and means others suffer.
Its not about use or need, its about possession. People are exactly like this too, hoarders love accumulating things, israelites love accumulating wealth, some people love accumulating power, and dragons love accumulating gold and gems. They dont need them, dont use them, but love having it. They sleep on their hoard and bask in it, its just in their nature, like how golden retrievers like water and beavers build dams. This is not something that Tolkien has invented, in European mythology dragons hoard treasure, it happens in Beowulf, it happens in several other folktales too.
I wish Hackson didn't use a wyvern for Smaug, it doesn't fit him at all
How does he pay the tax for his wealth? Tolkien is such a moronic hack?
Dragons in Tolkien are all fragments of Morgoth and he was a turbo competitive autist who wanted to "win" at Arda, instead of just vibing like the other Valar. Dragons are just echoes of this moronation and as such accumulate treasure and fan their own infamy among mortals.
I've talked about this problem before but this is LITERALLY another case of an actual zoomer on Cinemaphile being physically incapable of understanding the meaning and symbolism inherent in a work.
LotR dragons, namely Smaug, are inspired by the dragon in Beowulf, which also guarded a treasure hoard.
What does his stock portfolio look like?
I thought it was a magpies/shiny stuff kind of thing, they just couldn't help taking it if they saw it and like how it looks
Over the course of a dragons very long life it all adds up
>Money represents opportunity and wealth is sought after because it can be exchanged to better your lot in life or otherwise attain things that are pleasurable to you/those you care about.
Only according to our world view. Gold had more of a symbolic meaning when these myths originated
What use would a billionaire have for all that money? There's a point where you just can't spend any more of it for any practical or pleasurable purpose. But despite this, they go to great lengths to frick over poor people to get more. Their greed is innate and without justification.
Why does the crow take the coin, why does the magpie take a ring, why does the consoomer take the funko? It is in their nature to collect shiny things and they cannot deny their nature.
>funko
>currentyear, dragon exists
>makes plastic effigies of itself
>dumb humans give up their coin willingly to fill their homes with nonsense
>locals know him as the alibaba
>Why does the crow take the coin
Smaug has been depicted as an intelligent beast and so the simple instinct excuse doesn't hold
>consumer - funko pop
Funko pops are associated with popular culture media so their value lies in their limited edition rendition of said media, which makes them attractive to collectors. In short, the fact that they are related to a popular show/film and that they are only a few of them for said show/film give them value.
This does not apply to gold and treasure since it's not a collectible item, the entire purpose of gold/treasure is the purchasing power it gives you by spending it, the exact opposite of collecting. So Smaug hording gold for no reason is poor writing on Tolkien's part and a contrived way to induce tension with Bilbo trying to steal his prized possession, which technically shouldn't even be prized for him since it holds no value for a dragon.
Coins and gems feel good on the belly.
I guess it’s like a magpie collecting shiny things.
dragons symbolize cruel and greedy lords. it was a way for peasants to criticize the nobility without having their tongues removed
Who wins?
Smaug takes what he wants and destroys whoever gets in his way because he wants you to fear him, to know that you can do nothing to stop him, he has all the power to do with you whatever he desires.
The Dwarves take pride in the great riches they have amassed in Erebor? Well he can just take it, destroy your home and your civilization, so you will know that for all your pride and strength, Smaug is still stronger than you.
So wait a second.
How did Dragons even come to be in the Tolkien universe.
They seem to be fully intelligent and because of that have souls given to them by Eru somehow so they couldn't have been bred from animals. Morgoth could only corrupt but not create himself so how did dragons come to be then?
Are you telling me some maiar just like went full scalie and transformed himself (or herself) into a dragon then fricked another scalie maiar and that's how dragon babbies is made?
captcha : g8war
All Dragons derive their intelligence to Morgoth imparting some of his power and spirit into the creatures in the first age, the lesser drakes like Smaug are descendents of the great dragons of the first age. Therefore they have a natural malevolence and greed that leeds them to attack the Dwarves in order to seize their halls and horde their gold and to consume rings of power in their fire.
Tolkien established that gold in particular had a quality of evil, some remnant of the marring of Melkor exists within it, and this is why Sauron used gold in his One Ring. Dragons are drawn to this evil power. Additionally the Dwarves who had been slowly corrupted by their rings of power became more greedy and insular, this led them to gather all these riches in selfishness and pride. I would suggest that Dragon's are also drawn to what these hoards represent, they represent greed and the darkness of the Dwarves corruption and that is also why they want to dwell among it.
Morgoth can't "impart" intelligence onto lesser beings to make them fully intelligent. That's utter nonsense.
He can corrupt an already intelligent being into being an evil intelligent being, but he can't let's say... decide to make a giant evil intelligent snail out of a regular snail.
For that you already need an intelligent soul to begin with to warp.
He imparted his own evil will and intelligence into them, much like Sauron did with his ring. This is what gave the dragons their intelligence and the fact they think and act in line with Melkors own mind.
>"kys you fricking degenerate"
What the frick was Glaurung problem?
The words Dragon and Gods in ancient scripture are basically synonymous. So either God like men rode dragons, or dragons alone ruled over early man. I think its the former. According to the scholar Sitchin the Sumarian tablets say that the gods created man as a slave race to mine gold for them to fix their home planets atmosphere. These are the earliest scripture we have.
>According to the scholar Sitchin the Sumarian tablets say
Yeah and Sitchin has been proven to be fraud who incorrectly translated Sumerian writings, misinterpreted a lot of stuff and also just plainly made up stuff without citing any sources. Real scholars have meticulously recorded and translated Sumerian writings for all to see on the internet and it shows Sitchin was just pulling all this stuff out of his ass.
Still its the best explanation why Dragons like gold in this thread.
Dogs like collecting bones and other stuff and burying them in the garden. What's the point in that? It's their nature, so the same dragons like to collect shiny stuff
>he's doing it just because he has to
Low IQ cope for bad writing.
the dragon is allegory for US capitalism
Skyrim is pretty much right about everything.
Metal conducts heat well; it’s natural bedding material for dragons.
But like how people don’t want scratchy sheets dragons don’t want hard metal to sleep on.
Solution: gold.
>all this Tolkientard pseudo philosophy cope about how dragon is le bad because....HE JUST IS OKAY
Tolkien Black folk proving once again why they're the most cringe fanbase on all of internet.
Yes. Dragon is bad they’re demons that is the classical European archetype. Liking dragon is post-modernist, satanist, women, and a chink thing.
Gold is infused with Morgoths evil and will naturally bring you misfortune, up to and including guide a greedy dragon to your mountain of gold.
Most billionaires don't do shit with the vast majority of their fortunes. It's all about having it, not using it.
Impress females.
Didn't work though, Smaug is an incel.
Hes a collector
A hobby if you will
others liked it, others wanted it..... So Smaug wanted it.
All of it.
>a tale of Boomers and israelites
How would you get Smaug to pay capital gains taxes?
Slay him?
gold coins are the most comfortable thing to lay on, according to dragons
when you spend 95% of your time sleeping, having a comfortable nest is the most important thing
gold hoarding by dragons and monsters creates scarcity, which increases the purchasing power of gold
imagine if smaugs hoard entered circulation suddenly? the price of gold would plummet overnight
dwarves understand this, which is why they hoard gold and israeliteels also, and artificially inflate the purchasing power of what they mine out of the earth