This movie is dogshit and it has nothing to do with the symbiote, which is actually some of the best handled stuff in the film. The movie is dogshit because the Sandman plotline was completely malformed and irredeemable from its inception and the Harry plotline is utterly mishandled, leading to the godawful butler scene.
I will never understand people saying Sandman was good or one saving grace of Spider-Man 3.
Not only is he a bad retcon, he's a boring sob story villain as well with the actor having the emotional range of a brick.
I'm just so sick of every adaptation have to rush to do the symbiote. There were years of comics between the start and it. X-men has the same problem with Dark Phoenix. I know Venom is super popular but frick all the same.
Venom was not on the map when they gave him the suit in Secret Wars, so that feels like a false equivalence. And I guess the pace used for movies and cartoons is mostly due to the fact that they rarely know if they're gonna get to do a sequel/follow up season. Just look at Spectacular from your own exemple.
I do agree that X-Men should be able to work without Wolverine. Really hoping that MCU start with with O5, but the way that bastardized Spidey, I don't have much hope.
Venom was not on the map when they gave him the suit in Secret Wars, so that feels like a false equivalence. And I guess the pace used for movies and cartoons is mostly due to the fact that they rarely know if they're gonna get to do a sequel/follow up season. Just look at Spectacular from your own exemple.
I do agree that X-Men should be able to work without Wolverine. Really hoping that MCU start with with O5, but the way that bastardized Spidey, I don't have much hope.
My bad if you meant having the symbiote showing up early at all. In that case I agree. I read it as you wanting them to drag out that plotpline for longer.
How come forgiveness doesn't have its own cool tropes like revenge does? I guess it can be hard to have clean cut catharsis in a situation that is naturally more complex than simple tit for tat.
I will never understand people saying Sandman was good or one saving grace of Spider-Man 3.
Not only is he a bad retcon, he's a boring sob story villain as well with the actor having the emotional range of a brick.
I don't think making Sandman ND into Uncle Ben was necessary. I still like the rest of what the film does with Sandman though. There is a fan edit called Spider-Man 3.1 that includes both the theatrical and Editor's Cut scenes and orders them in a way that really cleans up the plot. Harry's amnesia wasn't the right tool, but the goal of reminding the audience of the friendship at stake between Peter and Harry made sense considering Harry spent most of Spider-Man 2 brooding. In broad strokes, the narrative of forgiveness that ties the film together is a rare treat in superhero fare that keeps me from disliking the film. It's the brass tacks of the film that don't fit together.
Each character's arc shows a different angle to forgiveness. Harry can't forgive Peter at first and Peter can't forgive Sandman. Furthermore, Venom is all about not taking responsibility and Eddie throws himself into the fires of the Symbiote's destruction because he refuses to forgive. Harry sacrifices himself to stop Sandman in forgiveness of Peter and Peter forgives Sandman. It is very bittersweet but it does but a loose thematic framework around an otherwise scattered plot.
I'm just so sick of every adaptation have to rush to do the symbiote. There were years of comics between the start and it. X-men has the same problem with Dark Phoenix. I know Venom is super popular but frick all the same.
This is why I think narratively, capeshit is better in series than features. Black suit and Venom can be a full season arc at minimum as can The Phoenix Saga.
I will never understand people saying Sandman was good or one saving grace of Spider-Man 3.
Not only is he a bad retcon, he's a boring sob story villain as well with the actor having the emotional range of a brick.
>I didn't even really shot your Uncle, i was considering not robbing him and then by partner came, touched my hand and triggered the gun by accident, then i held your uncle for a while before leaving
This is sappy even by Raimi standards. A lot of Batman comics and adaptations handle this better when he meets John Doe by the first time and immediately realizes that what he does is bigger than both of them
>the Sandman plotline was completely malformed and irredeemable from its inception and the Harry plotline is utterly mishandled, leading to the godawful butler scene.
True. The movie should've just been about Peter and Harry reconciling after succumbing to their worst traits.
I'm just so sick of every adaptation have to rush to do the symbiote. There were years of comics between the start and it. X-men has the same problem with Dark Phoenix. I know Venom is super popular but frick all the same.
Agreed. You'd think an animated series would at least have a whole season or two of Peter wearing the symbiote instead of a few episodes.
Sandmans birth and basically all of his scenes were a fantastic use of special and practical effects that still don't look dated. The very same techniques used then were used in No Way Home, a movie that came out like 20 years after the fact, because they were just that fricking good
I would imagine Peter is smart enough to realize much earlier when he's losing control or when something is alive that it's probably not a good idea for him to keep a living costume
In the comics finding out the suit is alive is what makes Peter lose his shit and immediately give it up.
Mental Corruption is an ebstablished lore of Symbiotes. I haven't read that old comics, but in the 90s cartoon, Venom made Peter evil and he almost killed a villain.
>posts the cartoon thats ground zero for the corruption nonsense >secondary talking about "established lore" for comics he hasn't read
It very hard to fight againts your own mind. This is why majority of Symbiote hosts has a hard time adjusting to new life without them. They are like alien meths.
>>It makes him evil
Always have been
>moronic casual that's only ever read out of contexts panels and thinks he knows what he's talking about
these are the people that slurp up the trite
black=evil and edgy, aliens bad nonsense
It's objectively better that Peter just freaks out and abandons an alien that HE freed and brought to Earth. He had so much other shit going on in his life at the time that he eschewed any kind of scientific curiosity and his personal responsibility to the symbiote and had it locked up again without even trying to understand it.
The symbiote making him evil isn't deep no matter how hard you jerk your dick about it, and it doesn't make sense considering it was literally locked up by it's own kind for wanting to coexist peacefully (you know, be a SYMBIOTE rather than a parasite) with it's hosts rather than bleeding them dry and moving on like the others
moronbro, even in the comics, black spiderman demonstrated evil behavior. "Good guy Venom" was something Marvel made-up in modern times, started with Agent Venom then it went downhill from there. He was always an evil Alien.
7 months ago
Anonymous
>spiderman >no pages or panels posted to back up his claim, or bare minimum issue reference numbers >would probably post peter being justifiably angry at something as proof >calling anyone else moronic
stick to saturday morning cartoons, those seem to be more your speed
the 90s cartoon actually made this up. it's like how batman the animated series created harley quinn and was then adapted by other media and the comics. in the comics the symbiote didn't corrupt. the 90s cartoon introduced this concept.
It very hard to fight againts your own mind. This is why majority of Symbiote hosts has a hard time adjusting to new life without them. They are like alien meths.
>the Sin Eater
That's his non-symbiote black costume. The Sin Eater also murdered a good friend of Spidey, he's just that pissed. He ends up giving the guy a stutter and making him lame of one leg.
Peter's closure on the issue was messy and incomplete; that's not a criticism of the narrative, I think it works really well for instilling the lessons Peter learns. Reopening that scar tests Peter's understanding of what he's supposed to have learned so far. Personally I think there was probably a better way to test Peter's character and show off the corruption of the black suit. Finding out Harry sabotaged his relationship with MJ to draw him out for the killing blow would be something PRESENT for Peter to get homicidal over. Peter thinking he has killed Harry and being overwhelmed with guilt at killing his best friend would be a great moment of clarity and Harry digging into his father's secrets and accidentally discovering the truth would be a great substitute for the butler scene. Each of them would see what evil they have brought out of each other and remember their friendship leading organically to forgiveness.
That's fine and all, Mr. Parker. But this isn't how confession works.
No, **I** forgive you.
I don't care, SATAN.
This movie is dogshit and it has nothing to do with the symbiote, which is actually some of the best handled stuff in the film. The movie is dogshit because the Sandman plotline was completely malformed and irredeemable from its inception and the Harry plotline is utterly mishandled, leading to the godawful butler scene.
I will never understand people saying Sandman was good or one saving grace of Spider-Man 3.
Not only is he a bad retcon, he's a boring sob story villain as well with the actor having the emotional range of a brick.
He does have the best scene in the movie(the reconstruction scene).
I'm just so sick of every adaptation have to rush to do the symbiote. There were years of comics between the start and it. X-men has the same problem with Dark Phoenix. I know Venom is super popular but frick all the same.
It's the same reason why the Sonic 3 movie has Shadow and why X-Men will bring in Wolverine as soon as possible. Forget sex. It's edge that sells.
Venom was not on the map when they gave him the suit in Secret Wars, so that feels like a false equivalence. And I guess the pace used for movies and cartoons is mostly due to the fact that they rarely know if they're gonna get to do a sequel/follow up season. Just look at Spectacular from your own exemple.
I do agree that X-Men should be able to work without Wolverine. Really hoping that MCU start with with O5, but the way that bastardized Spidey, I don't have much hope.
My bad if you meant having the symbiote showing up early at all. In that case I agree. I read it as you wanting them to drag out that plotpline for longer.
How come forgiveness doesn't have its own cool tropes like revenge does? I guess it can be hard to have clean cut catharsis in a situation that is naturally more complex than simple tit for tat.
I don't think making Sandman ND into Uncle Ben was necessary. I still like the rest of what the film does with Sandman though. There is a fan edit called Spider-Man 3.1 that includes both the theatrical and Editor's Cut scenes and orders them in a way that really cleans up the plot. Harry's amnesia wasn't the right tool, but the goal of reminding the audience of the friendship at stake between Peter and Harry made sense considering Harry spent most of Spider-Man 2 brooding. In broad strokes, the narrative of forgiveness that ties the film together is a rare treat in superhero fare that keeps me from disliking the film. It's the brass tacks of the film that don't fit together.
Each character's arc shows a different angle to forgiveness. Harry can't forgive Peter at first and Peter can't forgive Sandman. Furthermore, Venom is all about not taking responsibility and Eddie throws himself into the fires of the Symbiote's destruction because he refuses to forgive. Harry sacrifices himself to stop Sandman in forgiveness of Peter and Peter forgives Sandman. It is very bittersweet but it does but a loose thematic framework around an otherwise scattered plot.
This is why I think narratively, capeshit is better in series than features. Black suit and Venom can be a full season arc at minimum as can The Phoenix Saga.
>I didn't even really shot your Uncle, i was considering not robbing him and then by partner came, touched my hand and triggered the gun by accident, then i held your uncle for a while before leaving
This is sappy even by Raimi standards. A lot of Batman comics and adaptations handle this better when he meets John Doe by the first time and immediately realizes that what he does is bigger than both of them
>John Doe
I meant to say Joe Chill
>the Sandman plotline was completely malformed and irredeemable from its inception and the Harry plotline is utterly mishandled, leading to the godawful butler scene.
True. The movie should've just been about Peter and Harry reconciling after succumbing to their worst traits.
Agreed. You'd think an animated series would at least have a whole season or two of Peter wearing the symbiote instead of a few episodes.
>2 entire seasons
ok that's too much
The entire movie is horseshit, no redeeming qualities
The Sandman transformation scene is cool
Sandmans birth and basically all of his scenes were a fantastic use of special and practical effects that still don't look dated. The very same techniques used then were used in No Way Home, a movie that came out like 20 years after the fact, because they were just that fricking good
, Hitler
Has Raimi gone too on the nose?
Spider-Man 3 is the best of the trilogy and 2 is the worst prove me the frick wrong
Ironic memes XD
I would imagine Peter is smart enough to realize much earlier when he's losing control or when something is alive that it's probably not a good idea for him to keep a living costume
In the comics finding out the suit is alive is what makes Peter lose his shit and immediately give it up.
That's why I don't like the "it makes him evil" thing. It just appeals to edgelords
Mental Corruption is an ebstablished lore of Symbiotes. I haven't read that old comics, but in the 90s cartoon, Venom made Peter evil and he almost killed a villain.
>posts the cartoon thats ground zero for the corruption nonsense
>secondary talking about "established lore" for comics he hasn't read
>moronic casual that's only ever read out of contexts panels and thinks he knows what he's talking about
these are the people that slurp up the trite
black=evil and edgy, aliens bad nonsense
It's objectively better that Peter just freaks out and abandons an alien that HE freed and brought to Earth. He had so much other shit going on in his life at the time that he eschewed any kind of scientific curiosity and his personal responsibility to the symbiote and had it locked up again without even trying to understand it.
The symbiote making him evil isn't deep no matter how hard you jerk your dick about it, and it doesn't make sense considering it was literally locked up by it's own kind for wanting to coexist peacefully (you know, be a SYMBIOTE rather than a parasite) with it's hosts rather than bleeding them dry and moving on like the others
moronbro, even in the comics, black spiderman demonstrated evil behavior. "Good guy Venom" was something Marvel made-up in modern times, started with Agent Venom then it went downhill from there. He was always an evil Alien.
>spiderman
>no pages or panels posted to back up his claim, or bare minimum issue reference numbers
>would probably post peter being justifiably angry at something as proof
>calling anyone else moronic
stick to saturday morning cartoons, those seem to be more your speed
the 90s cartoon actually made this up. it's like how batman the animated series created harley quinn and was then adapted by other media and the comics. in the comics the symbiote didn't corrupt. the 90s cartoon introduced this concept.
>That's why I don't like the "it makes him evil" thing. It just appeals to edgelords
It is one of the classic Spiderman storyline. It has always been like that since the 90s
>>It makes him evil
Always have been
ALSO just the spandex black costume. He was fighting for his life against a herald of Galactus who could have leveled Manhattan over a slice of pizza.
It very hard to fight againts your own mind. This is why majority of Symbiote hosts has a hard time adjusting to new life without them. They are like alien meths.
Is the symbiote an allegory of living in New York?
Yeah it's just how the blacks are over there
>the Sin Eater
That's his non-symbiote black costume. The Sin Eater also murdered a good friend of Spidey, he's just that pissed. He ends up giving the guy a stutter and making him lame of one leg.
To this day I don't understand why Raimi insisted on harping on Uncle Ben's death. It's such a minor thing in the comics overall.
MY MAN PAIN, MY MAIN PAIN
Peter's closure on the issue was messy and incomplete; that's not a criticism of the narrative, I think it works really well for instilling the lessons Peter learns. Reopening that scar tests Peter's understanding of what he's supposed to have learned so far. Personally I think there was probably a better way to test Peter's character and show off the corruption of the black suit. Finding out Harry sabotaged his relationship with MJ to draw him out for the killing blow would be something PRESENT for Peter to get homicidal over. Peter thinking he has killed Harry and being overwhelmed with guilt at killing his best friend would be a great moment of clarity and Harry digging into his father's secrets and accidentally discovering the truth would be a great substitute for the butler scene. Each of them would see what evil they have brought out of each other and remember their friendship leading organically to forgiveness.
He wanted an emotional core to tie the movies together
I always hated Venom. Lame as shit grimderp antihero.
All is forgiven
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