Seriously fricking have a nice day for lying like that.
He's right tho.
This is better than the Constantine and Birds of Pander books.
Where is the lie?
Those are both bad and they are both better than Batgirls. Batgirls was a truly depressingly awful book. Especially if you were reading for Cassandra Cain.
It's fine. I liked the Detective Comics run where she became friends with Clayface. I know a lot of anons hated that run but I liked the sidekicks having their own book.
Let's put it this way, out of the three she comes out the most unscathed and closest to the version people love. Conversely, she also has the least introspective and character moments. She's mostly there to just be cool Cass. Steph gets more character moments but most of it is repeating the same beats of "steph's not as good as the others, but when she really tries she can hold her own!"
Everything about the book was them going "wait, wait, we're not actually doing that" to every single element introduced. Nothing is followed up on, everything is dropped. They couldn't even let them have a car without taking it away after a few issues.
>Let's put it this way, out of the three she comes out the most unscathed and closest to the version people love
Hard disagree. My take on the Batgirls comic was that it was written as "Barbara Gordon shepherds two useless idiot children" and that Cass was hit the worst because unlike Steph, she didn't have earlier history of being written as near totally useless.
>Cass was hit the worst because unlike Steph, she didn't have earlier history of being written as near totally useless.
hard, hard disagree there.
At the end of the day, barring some humor moments like
I mostly remember WIFF
You still get the feeling that Cass is a capable, above adequate crimefighter. At the worst, she's not as multidimensional as she was in her books when she could have monologues(getting rid of monologues for the editors voice here was an awful awful idea. Steph and cass, arguably ARE their monologues.)
Steph gets downgraded into incompetent and like an amateur yet again. Having earlier history doesn't justify treading that ground AGAIN. It was tiring by 2008, let alone 6+ years into her reintroduction and the rollercoaster of Tynion making her act so bad it net her a fresh wave of hatedom.
I just want steph to be at this level she was again. Where yeah, there were growing pains, but she's grown. Making her Batgirl again, but not committing to it in terms of competence or even visuals, is worse.
An anti-oracle master of deepfakes that knows all their secrets should be an all-hands emergency for the bat family. Let alone the hero community at large. But it was barely acknowledged by anyone but the Batgirls, and it fizzled out in their own book. It was quite literally pointless at the end of it all.
8 months ago
Anonymous
It almost feels like they had a bunch of plans they wanted to do early on, but after reception was less than stellar they scuttled a lot and it just made it worse
8 months ago
Anonymous
And dumped the dregs into Batgirls to take up precious page space. *sigh
The only successful thing this book did was irk fans of each of the Batgirls.
>Cass was hit the worst because unlike Steph
Nah. Babs is my favorite Batgirl and I hated how that book portrayed her, but even I found it irking how often Steph got the short-end of the stick in terms of characterization, not to mention how often she became the damsel-in-distress of the book.
Babs got damseled too, though she did get herself out of it (while outing herself). I dunno, I don't mind any of our girls taking a turn being captured, but the execution was definitely lacking.
Babs got damseled too, though she did get herself out of it (while outing herself). I dunno, I don't mind any of our girls taking a turn being captured, but the execution was definitely lacking.
Cass is just kinda there, doesn't do anything cool, and had her personality replaced by Wednesday Addams. Steph got turned into Stuart Smalley. Babs is this weird, bitter spinster who seems to despise Cass and Steph and can't wait for someone to rip out her spine so she can be paralyzed again.
Put her in the stupid purple unicorn pajamas and you've got the Batgirls version of Cass in a nutshell. She's written as a wacky gloomy autist who's not actually good at anything.
What's the number one thing people know about Cassandra Cain, if they know anything about her at all? She's top tier at fighting. What's the thing she never does in this comic? Win fights. She should be absolutely crushing fools yet she jobs to D-listers like firefly and Z-listers like all the made-up losers at the start. She's such a fricking loser in this. Extremely unerotic too to add insult to injury.
>yet she jobs to D-listers like firefly
Killer Moth. And while Cass may be the master of the fist, an aerialist she is not. I can excuse her jobbing when she's out of her element.
>What's the number one thing people know about Cassandra Cain, if they know anything about her at all? She's top tier at fighting.
I think you were mainly hate reading the book early on if anything and it colored your perception. She gets plenty of moments of kicking ass and taking people down. Cass just winning fights alone isn't a story. She lost, or got tripped up, in her solo too.
If I see Cass Cain in a comic, I want to see her flipkick somebody through a brick wall while dodging 187 bullets.
and how often did that really happen in her old book? Cass' character has always been about how this living weapon adapts to a new life. The action was mainly catharsis or to drive along plot. The bigger disservice of the book was spending so little time on Cass' introspection, not that she wasn't girl who fights good.
[...]
I want to point out that Mr. Fun was way out of character too. He was a screamy crazy guy when in the original story he first appeared in (Batman: Family IIRC) he was exaggeratedly calm, an exact opposite of that. It's like the writer just read the words "mafia killer" from his bio and made up the rest.
It's one of those things that makes it feel like they were trying, but only did tertiary research. I was glad to see them acknowledge knowing how to play piano from the brief Lewis run of Robin) but it feels more like rattling off trivia than doing anything meaningful with it.
>I think you were mainly hate reading the book early on
Yes, I hated it. I truly hate it. I desperately wanted it to be good, and it was honestly so bad I don't know how to make it worse in a way that really matters. That book took a top tier concept and drove it right off a cliff, possibly poisoning it forever.
>and how often did that really happen in her old book?
Literally all the fricking time in the Puckett run, which is the only run that matters and defines the character. In seriously almost every issue of it Cass does something wicked sick and here it's just embarrassment.
>Literally all the fricking time in the Puckett run, which is the only run that matters and defines the character
I get the feeling you're the same poster as the other threads(especially with your focus being her being dangerous and erotic) , and while I'm not as negative as you on her later stuff, I would agree the Puckett era was her peak; but even that lost steam o me after the Shiva rematch. I preferred Horrocks exploring her character more in his run to those later issues
I forgot that this book brought back Mr. Fun, who I love. Too bad he was gone in the blink of an eye.
I want to point out that Mr. Fun was way out of character too. He was a screamy crazy guy when in the original story he first appeared in (Batman: Family IIRC) he was exaggeratedly calm, an exact opposite of that. It's like the writer just read the words "mafia killer" from his bio and made up the rest.
And while we're at it: stop letting every slightly crazy person "counter" Cass's body-reading. That's not how it works, and when you do that you just reveal you haven't read any of her comics before writing her. Mental state is irrelevant, it's not based on emotions, reading emotions is a side effect of the actual ability which is reading muscle movement.
8 months ago
Anonymous
Sorry, Anon. It's Google official now.
8 months ago
Anonymous
>That's not how it works, and when you do that you just reveal you haven't read any of her comics before writing her.
That issue where she fights Joker basically gave them carte blanche.
8 months ago
Anonymous
Joker's nervous system is fricked from all those chemicals.
He's portrayed pretty fairly too. Competent, but still goofy, yet also calculating, yet
>yet she jobs to D-listers like firefly
Killer Moth. And while Cass may be the master of the fist, an aerialist she is not. I can excuse her jobbing when she's out of her element.
still a source of comic relief. He's the closest thing Barbara has to an enduring nemesis, and it's only fair he have a recurring presence with the other Batgirls.
>I'm a big fan of Cass. Is this worth reading for her?
Frick no, Cass does almost nothing cool in the whole series and it's all drawn like trash too.
One exception: issue number 14, where Cass searches for a kidnapped Spoiler, reads like a below-average issue of her own old solo series, and is passable. That's one okay issue in the entire comic run. The rest ranges from bad to "I literally can't read this because the cringe is killing me".
>Babs again?
She needs new boots. Otherwise, I wouldn't mind a Babs solo, but I don't think DC is up to the task. A Batgirls relaunch would probably work IF they change practically everything about it.
I still like the idea of Bette investigating incognito for a run as a Batgirl in a full coverage helmet. Would make a fun mystery for the other girls to uncover, and just acknowledging her as part of the legacy is something I think should be done.
How about a run that clears up the Pre-Crisis, Post-Crisis, and New 52 continuity for the original Batwoman?
Kathy Kane is Katrina "Luka" Netz is Agent Zero is Batwoman? How does Bette's short run as Bat-Girl work when her partner was secretly a Spyral agent the whole time? Is Bette involved? How much does she know? How does that reconcile with her time with Titans West, or as Flamebird? Or as Kate Kane's lame sidekick?
That's what I'd want.
Or maybe just do it as a Nightwing story for the Spyral connection, and because they actually want it to sell.
Kathy Kane redemption arc when?! Personal headcanon. Bette is completely in the dark, but Kathy was grooming her into becoming a Spyral agent, but couldn't go through with it because she genuinely loved her.
That doesn't leave much room for story development.
Bette knew. She had to know, she was a smart little girl. Kathy Hypnos'd her.
Then she found out again, and again, and again. It explains why Bette turned into a moron in the 80s.
8 months ago
Anonymous
>It explains why Bette turned into a moron in the 80s.
Who wasn't a moron in the 80s?
Kathy Kane redemption arc when?! Personal headcanon. Bette is completely in the dark, but Kathy was grooming her into becoming a Spyral agent, but couldn't go through with it because she genuinely loved her.
You need to make people care about Kathy first(only 10 people do)
You're overthinking it. Post-Crisis first appearance and later implied that Bette's Bat-Girl adventures still took place with the only change being her moniker.
TOCA is by far the most powerful Cassanon due to his bottomless wallet. Dronebro is ubiquitous, but until he commissions a bunch of drone art, his power level is much lower.
Come back when you change the google algorithm with so many commissions(seriously, google lists Kon as a main love interest of Cass now)
Unless you're Psu, where your art basically changes the perception of her into some weepy eyed doll who's always getting tied up and raped by Ivy.
>CassAnon is single-handedly holding back the lesbo baiting
My hat's off to you, sir!
8 months ago
Anonymous
I kneel
8 months ago
Anonymous
The power of autism
8 months ago
Anonymous
cass anon commission spendings > DC comic revenue on books where cass/steph are paired
8 months ago
Anonymous
>creators: Kelley Puckett, Damion Scott >no mention of Alex Maleev who designed the costume
Wow, rude.
8 months ago
Anonymous
Because he technically designed the costume for Huntress to use. Same reason Neal adams doesn't get credited for Tim Drake; he designed a costume for Dick and Tim used it.
Out of the three Cass is the best of the three. Like Steph, the series does repeat a storyline already touched on and done better (Cass/Shiva's relationship).
However, the series does progress her character slightly (reading-wise) and adds her fascination of painting.
Really, #14 is what you want to read when it comes to Cass. Other than that, she's just the only character who isn't spinning their wheels, She's given a good issue teaming up with Maps, she takes on Mr. Fun (an obscure Bat villain back in her glory days who did beat her) and KGBeast.
Read the first six issues just for her and know once you reach #9 the series does get better. You just have to get thru the mass of dead tissue that is "Fear State" fallout, Babs getting two issues (because that's when the Batgirl movie was supposed to happen), but instead looks like a retarted idiot along with I guess why Cass/Steph side with Selina during this Gotham War shit.
>Babs getting two issues (because that's when the Batgirl movie was supposed to happen),
I know we dodged a bullet. But I am still morbidly curious as to how bad it really was..
>and the Burnside batgirl run
In hindsight, the first Burnside run wasn't so bad. Sure, it's tonally jarring after Simone, and Babs regressed a bit as a character, but the art was decent, and it was a much better run than what would come afterwards, except maybe for Scott.
Given how some people talk about it, I'm not sure many of its proponents actually read Simone's run because dear god was that a miserable slog to read.
>In hindsight, the first Burnside run wasn't so bad.
Its really fascinating watching batgirlgays gaslight themselves in believing that anything since the new 52 was good.
Yes, this is the best Cass book out there.
When I spread misinformation on the internet
He's right tho.
This is better than the Constantine and Birds of Pander books.
Where is the lie?
That is a very low bar.
Yeah.
That's the problem. Beggars can't be choosy.
Oh, I can be choosy anon. Just because I'm deprived, doesn't make me a sap.
Seriously fricking have a nice day for lying like that.
Those are both bad and they are both better than Batgirls. Batgirls was a truly depressingly awful book. Especially if you were reading for Cassandra Cain.
It's fine. I liked the Detective Comics run where she became friends with Clayface. I know a lot of anons hated that run but I liked the sidekicks having their own book.
I love Batgirls!
Do you like Cass being sapphic?
Let's put it this way, out of the three she comes out the most unscathed and closest to the version people love. Conversely, she also has the least introspective and character moments. She's mostly there to just be cool Cass. Steph gets more character moments but most of it is repeating the same beats of "steph's not as good as the others, but when she really tries she can hold her own!"
Everything about the book was them going "wait, wait, we're not actually doing that" to every single element introduced. Nothing is followed up on, everything is dropped. They couldn't even let them have a car without taking it away after a few issues.
>Let's put it this way, out of the three she comes out the most unscathed and closest to the version people love
Hard disagree. My take on the Batgirls comic was that it was written as "Barbara Gordon shepherds two useless idiot children" and that Cass was hit the worst because unlike Steph, she didn't have earlier history of being written as near totally useless.
>Cass was hit the worst because unlike Steph, she didn't have earlier history of being written as near totally useless.
hard, hard disagree there.
At the end of the day, barring some humor moments like
You still get the feeling that Cass is a capable, above adequate crimefighter. At the worst, she's not as multidimensional as she was in her books when she could have monologues(getting rid of monologues for the editors voice here was an awful awful idea. Steph and cass, arguably ARE their monologues.)
Steph gets downgraded into incompetent and like an amateur yet again. Having earlier history doesn't justify treading that ground AGAIN. It was tiring by 2008, let alone 6+ years into her reintroduction and the rollercoaster of Tynion making her act so bad it net her a fresh wave of hatedom.
I just want steph to be at this level she was again. Where yeah, there were growing pains, but she's grown. Making her Batgirl again, but not committing to it in terms of competence or even visuals, is worse.
>it was written as "Barbara Gordon shepherds two useless idiot children"
And Babs also looses several dozen IQ points herself. This is just awful.
Christ, I forgot about Seer, the omnipotent hacker who mostly just did prank calls with AI-enhanced voices. What a tedious villain.
An anti-oracle master of deepfakes that knows all their secrets should be an all-hands emergency for the bat family. Let alone the hero community at large. But it was barely acknowledged by anyone but the Batgirls, and it fizzled out in their own book. It was quite literally pointless at the end of it all.
It almost feels like they had a bunch of plans they wanted to do early on, but after reception was less than stellar they scuttled a lot and it just made it worse
And dumped the dregs into Batgirls to take up precious page space. *sigh
That's being very charitable to Babs' characterization in the book.
The only successful thing this book did was irk fans of each of the Batgirls.
>Cass was hit the worst because unlike Steph
Nah. Babs is my favorite Batgirl and I hated how that book portrayed her, but even I found it irking how often Steph got the short-end of the stick in terms of characterization, not to mention how often she became the damsel-in-distress of the book.
Babs got damseled too, though she did get herself out of it (while outing herself). I dunno, I don't mind any of our girls taking a turn being captured, but the execution was definitely lacking.
Cass is just kinda there, doesn't do anything cool, and had her personality replaced by Wednesday Addams. Steph got turned into Stuart Smalley. Babs is this weird, bitter spinster who seems to despise Cass and Steph and can't wait for someone to rip out her spine so she can be paralyzed again.
>who seems to despise Cass and Steph
Where was this?!
Read the silent issue, at least.
Kinda sad to see a thread die so quick.
Sauce
Abs
Kind of
look OP
Cassgay here
Batgirls is mid. Not mid as in "good but has its flaws". Mid as in I forgot every single thing about it
Fishy
I mostly remember WIFF
Put her in the stupid purple unicorn pajamas and you've got the Batgirls version of Cass in a nutshell. She's written as a wacky gloomy autist who's not actually good at anything.
What's the number one thing people know about Cassandra Cain, if they know anything about her at all? She's top tier at fighting. What's the thing she never does in this comic? Win fights. She should be absolutely crushing fools yet she jobs to D-listers like firefly and Z-listers like all the made-up losers at the start. She's such a fricking loser in this. Extremely unerotic too to add insult to injury.
She wins some fights
If I see Cass Cain in a comic, I want to see her flipkick somebody through a brick wall while dodging 187 bullets.
>yet she jobs to D-listers like firefly
Killer Moth. And while Cass may be the master of the fist, an aerialist she is not. I can excuse her jobbing when she's out of her element.
Needs to take to the ski somehow
She did get to suplex KGBeast through a sign at least.
>What's the number one thing people know about Cassandra Cain, if they know anything about her at all? She's top tier at fighting.
I think you were mainly hate reading the book early on if anything and it colored your perception. She gets plenty of moments of kicking ass and taking people down. Cass just winning fights alone isn't a story. She lost, or got tripped up, in her solo too.
and how often did that really happen in her old book? Cass' character has always been about how this living weapon adapts to a new life. The action was mainly catharsis or to drive along plot. The bigger disservice of the book was spending so little time on Cass' introspection, not that she wasn't girl who fights good.
I forgot that this book brought back Mr. Fun, who I love. Too bad he was gone in the blink of an eye.
It's one of those things that makes it feel like they were trying, but only did tertiary research. I was glad to see them acknowledge knowing how to play piano from the brief Lewis run of Robin) but it feels more like rattling off trivia than doing anything meaningful with it.
>I think you were mainly hate reading the book early on
Yes, I hated it. I truly hate it. I desperately wanted it to be good, and it was honestly so bad I don't know how to make it worse in a way that really matters. That book took a top tier concept and drove it right off a cliff, possibly poisoning it forever.
>and how often did that really happen in her old book?
Literally all the fricking time in the Puckett run, which is the only run that matters and defines the character. In seriously almost every issue of it Cass does something wicked sick and here it's just embarrassment.
>Literally all the fricking time in the Puckett run, which is the only run that matters and defines the character
I get the feeling you're the same poster as the other threads(especially with your focus being her being dangerous and erotic) , and while I'm not as negative as you on her later stuff, I would agree the Puckett era was her peak; but even that lost steam o me after the Shiva rematch. I preferred Horrocks exploring her character more in his run to those later issues
I want to point out that Mr. Fun was way out of character too. He was a screamy crazy guy when in the original story he first appeared in (Batman: Family IIRC) he was exaggeratedly calm, an exact opposite of that. It's like the writer just read the words "mafia killer" from his bio and made up the rest.
And while we're at it: stop letting every slightly crazy person "counter" Cass's body-reading. That's not how it works, and when you do that you just reveal you haven't read any of her comics before writing her. Mental state is irrelevant, it's not based on emotions, reading emotions is a side effect of the actual ability which is reading muscle movement.
Sorry, Anon. It's Google official now.
>That's not how it works, and when you do that you just reveal you haven't read any of her comics before writing her.
That issue where she fights Joker basically gave them carte blanche.
Joker's nervous system is fricked from all those chemicals.
Having Killer Moth is a point in the series' favour.
He's portrayed pretty fairly too. Competent, but still goofy, yet also calculating, yet
still a source of comic relief. He's the closest thing Barbara has to an enduring nemesis, and it's only fair he have a recurring presence with the other Batgirls.
I hope she pulls the wings out again someday. Would be fun.
>I'm a big fan of Cass. Is this worth reading for her?
Frick no, Cass does almost nothing cool in the whole series and it's all drawn like trash too.
One exception: issue number 14, where Cass searches for a kidnapped Spoiler, reads like a below-average issue of her own old solo series, and is passable. That's one okay issue in the entire comic run. The rest ranges from bad to "I literally can't read this because the cringe is killing me".
What could be next in terms of a new batgirl series? Babs again? A new batgirl?
>Babs again?
She needs new boots. Otherwise, I wouldn't mind a Babs solo, but I don't think DC is up to the task. A Batgirls relaunch would probably work IF they change practically everything about it.
Split up in different books each
>A new batgirl?
Lmaoing at the level of bad idea adding a fourth one would be
Holy shit, you should be hired by DC. You'd be right at home there with those brainwaves
I still like the idea of Bette investigating incognito for a run as a Batgirl in a full coverage helmet. Would make a fun mystery for the other girls to uncover, and just acknowledging her as part of the legacy is something I think should be done.
How about a run that clears up the Pre-Crisis, Post-Crisis, and New 52 continuity for the original Batwoman?
Kathy Kane is Katrina "Luka" Netz is Agent Zero is Batwoman? How does Bette's short run as Bat-Girl work when her partner was secretly a Spyral agent the whole time? Is Bette involved? How much does she know? How does that reconcile with her time with Titans West, or as Flamebird? Or as Kate Kane's lame sidekick?
That's what I'd want.
Or maybe just do it as a Nightwing story for the Spyral connection, and because they actually want it to sell.
Kathy Kane redemption arc when?! Personal headcanon. Bette is completely in the dark, but Kathy was grooming her into becoming a Spyral agent, but couldn't go through with it because she genuinely loved her.
That doesn't leave much room for story development.
Bette knew. She had to know, she was a smart little girl. Kathy Hypnos'd her.
Then she found out again, and again, and again. It explains why Bette turned into a moron in the 80s.
>It explains why Bette turned into a moron in the 80s.
Who wasn't a moron in the 80s?
You need to make people care about Kathy first(only 10 people do)
You're overthinking it. Post-Crisis first appearance and later implied that Bette's Bat-Girl adventures still took place with the only change being her moniker.
Nice
Who's more powerful, Casskon anon or the gagcass anon?
TOCA is by far the most powerful Cassanon due to his bottomless wallet. Dronebro is ubiquitous, but until he commissions a bunch of drone art, his power level is much lower.
I fricking hate this pay-to-win meta. I obsessed over her first and hardest.
Come back when you change the google algorithm with so many commissions(seriously, google lists Kon as a main love interest of Cass now)
Unless you're Psu, where your art basically changes the perception of her into some weepy eyed doll who's always getting tied up and raped by Ivy.
Wait proof?
>CassAnon is single-handedly holding back the lesbo baiting
My hat's off to you, sir!
I kneel
The power of autism
cass anon commission spendings > DC comic revenue on books where cass/steph are paired
>creators: Kelley Puckett, Damion Scott
>no mention of Alex Maleev who designed the costume
Wow, rude.
Because he technically designed the costume for Huntress to use. Same reason Neal adams doesn't get credited for Tim Drake; he designed a costume for Dick and Tim used it.
More google?
Then you flood the internet with your own poorly drawn Cass art like real obsessive weirdo. I want at least two pieces by tomorrow!
Casskon anon.
Just read the second birds of prey. Bit stupid. Bit correct.
It’s weird seeing adult Maps. Her face kinda reminds me of Cass… or at least how she’s drawn by our local drawgays. Or maybe I’m wrong.
Yes.
Out of the three Cass is the best of the three. Like Steph, the series does repeat a storyline already touched on and done better (Cass/Shiva's relationship).
However, the series does progress her character slightly (reading-wise) and adds her fascination of painting.
Really, #14 is what you want to read when it comes to Cass. Other than that, she's just the only character who isn't spinning their wheels, She's given a good issue teaming up with Maps, she takes on Mr. Fun (an obscure Bat villain back in her glory days who did beat her) and KGBeast.
Read the first six issues just for her and know once you reach #9 the series does get better. You just have to get thru the mass of dead tissue that is "Fear State" fallout, Babs getting two issues (because that's when the Batgirl movie was supposed to happen), but instead looks like a retarted idiot along with I guess why Cass/Steph side with Selina during this Gotham War shit.
Basically
>Babs getting two issues (because that's when the Batgirl movie was supposed to happen),
I know we dodged a bullet. But I am still morbidly curious as to how bad it really was..
For me it's Babs getting defeated
As much as I disliked that new 52 Harley and the Burnside batgirl run, seeing these designs again gives me a weird feeling of nostalgia.
>and the Burnside batgirl run
In hindsight, the first Burnside run wasn't so bad. Sure, it's tonally jarring after Simone, and Babs regressed a bit as a character, but the art was decent, and it was a much better run than what would come afterwards, except maybe for Scott.
Given how some people talk about it, I'm not sure many of its proponents actually read Simone's run because dear god was that a miserable slog to read.
The Burnside costume has really grown on me over the years.
Meh. It's still garbage as far as hero suits go.
>In hindsight, the first Burnside run wasn't so bad.
Its really fascinating watching batgirlgays gaslight themselves in believing that anything since the new 52 was good.
Can you honestly say Castellucci was better?
Simone's run was my only exposure to Batgirl when Burnside started, so by comparison it was just too different for me to enjoy.
<3 Snack Queen
I'm just happy she's back and out of West Point!
Cool
Just re-read the 2000 run