dont care if hes right but it is a shit movie. batman and superman are bros. if theyre going to fight it should only be after they make 6 justice league movies to finally establish a decent DCU
because the comics and cartoons exist and they are bros before they introduce any dark batman v superman shit. there can be a little conflict but they need to be on the same side until the cinematic universe is established. otherwise its just a pointless SFX showcase.
The thing that makes the fight interesting is the character dynamics and the fact that they've been friends for years, so there's complex emotions involved and factors outside "hurr durr me wanna punch that guy".
because the comics and cartoons exist and they are bros before they introduce any dark batman v superman shit. there can be a little conflict but they need to be on the same side until the cinematic universe is established. otherwise its just a pointless SFX showcase.
In the comics and cartoons they started as enemies, you fricking casuals.
Nobody cares about the gay 30s stuff where they start off being a bit catty with each other but then almost immediately team up. When people talk about Batman v Superman they're thinking of The Dark Knight Returns type stuff
I'm talking about the 80's reboots, you fricking idiot.
In John Byrne's mini-series, Man of Steel, that recreated Superman for the new continuity, Superman was ordered by the president to arrest Batman.
Batman was also already an established vigilante that had gone through two Robins and a Batgirl.
The DCAU cartoons by Bruce Timm and Paul Dini also had their cartoons cross-over in an especial episode where Bruce Wayne gets to cuckold Clark Kent and both Batman and Superman are frenemies.
Hell, even then the 50's remake already had them starting out as frenemies.
Shows you what you know, homosexual.
10 months ago
Anonymous
>what if we adapt these stories nobody cares about where the boys do some light b***hy low-stakes grab-ass stuff with each other
sounds great dude, you should def be in charge of making the movies
10 months ago
Anonymous
MoS is literally inspired by John Byrne's reboot, among other small stories.
they didnt always get along but they were never fighting in the streets. i dont have a problem with the concept i just think it needs to happen after they do a few movies working together and the justice league gets split by some morally ambigious disaster. i dont even know if the movie tries to provide a decent backstory because i had no interest in seeing undeveloped aflec batman doing CGI robot fights
Their friendship more often than start with them hating each other, getting into blows, and then teaming up to stop a bad guy. That's how the cliche plays out.
I'd have kept my peace if you had just said you didn't like the movie or prefer the way the DKR comic played out, but seeing people like you trying to play the authority as comics experts is just too much.
10 months ago
Anonymous
in which comic or cartoon series did batman and superman have an all out brawl before teaming up to create the justice league?
10 months ago
Anonymous
Geoff Johns' Origin arc of his Justice League comic, an almost direct inspiration for the JL/ZSJL movie.
Snyder should stick to cinematography. He has no restraint and it leads to his movies being insanely bloated and filled with stupid self-indulgent stuff.
The future / dream sequence is genuinely one of the most bizarre creative decisions I've seen in a blockbuster of this kind. An extremely stupid overly-long non-sequitur filled with stuff that is completely incomprehensible if you're not going into the movie with years of comic book knowledge under your belt. And it adds absolutely nothing. It's like they just started writing their own fanfiction halfway through.
It was such a baffling decision, specially the Flash cameo right after it
I wonder how many from the general audience even he realized that guy was supposed to be the Flash? Very few I imagine
I'm a bit of a film snob. I heckle my brother-in-law because the Christian Bale versus Dragons movie "Reign of Fire" is his favorite film.
Batman V. Superman, and the other Snyder directed superhero films get me. Snyder films aren't clever, aren't amazingly written, they have a few good shots in them but even then they aren't extremely pertinent to the story.
I cannot explain to others or myself why I dig those films so much. Add them all up and I've had easily over 30 viewings of them all.
>I heckle my brother-in-law because the Christian Bale versus Dragons movie "Reign of Fire" is his favorite film.
Rude, it's far from being the worst choice for a favorite film.
This video isn’t very good, way too focused on talking about MOS (which is just okay, in my opinion) instead of BVS
His video on Suicide Squad (the superhero movie that he does consider to be the worst one ever made) is much better
I dont understand why people hate this capeshit in particular. Its way better than dumb shit like Black Panther, wonder woman, justice league, captain america and many others.
Benfleck was surprisingly good. Based Cavill was alright. The villain was a horrible Luthor, but a great villain nonetheless. The plot was dumb shit, but its capeshit, its not important. The fights were good and it had some really good quotes.
>You're not brave... men are brave. You say that you want to help people, but you can't feel their pain... their mortality... It's time you learn what it means to be a man
Seriously, this is some good fricking dialogue for capeshit.
Frick I forgot how many good quotes there are: >You were never a god. You were never even a man.
or >That's how it starts. The fever, the rage... The feeling of powerlessness, that turns good men... cruel
Capeshit is normally braindead, action packed fun, but BvS was actually smart here and there.
Those were all dumb brain hack Goyer. The only really quality quote was “I'm older now than my father ever was. This may be the only thing I do that matters.” The only quote that gave us an insight to this particular version of Wayne, an older more jaded and cracked Batman. Not the objectivist goyslop that Snyder has in his films.
Frick I forgot how many good quotes there are: >You were never a god. You were never even a man.
or >That's how it starts. The fever, the rage... The feeling of powerlessness, that turns good men... cruel
Capeshit is normally braindead, action packed fun, but BvS was actually smart here and there.
Those were all dumb brain hack Goyer. The only really quality quote was “I'm older now than my father ever was. This may be the only thing I do that matters.” The only quote that gave us an insight to this particular version of Wayne, an older more jaded and cracked Batman. Not the objectivist goyslop that Snyder has in his films.
Better quote
[...]
Both of those are great too. Thats exactly my point.
That's the issue with Snyder, he has a very specific philosophy and worldview that he tried to insert into preexisting characters that are diametrically opposed to it. A lot of symbolism, quotes and shit that work with some characters but not Superman and Batman. Snyder fans like his shit because they like Snyder content, they don't care if a Randian worldview butchers the story and makes the plot moronic.
And the notion that he challenged the narrative and the work he made wasn't for children is cope. Thomas Wayne as a Flashpoint Batman already exists so a violent angry Batman with Ben Affleck cast would have worked but he tried make Bruce that guy in a very sloppy way.
>>the Captain America trilogy as a whole
War (nerfed the hulk but it surprised me with the ending)
1-2 of Young Justice
Those fricking sucked.
You might dislike them but their plot is a lot more logical and consistent than the Snyder films. They're also much better adaptations with a far better track record with the general public. Btw did you even watch seasons 1-2 of Young Justice, it's nothing like the later seasons and does a good job at juggling such a large cast.
>You might dislike them but their plot is a lot more logical and consistent than the Snyder films.
No, they aren't. I could literally spend an entire thread picking civil war apart for how moronic it is.
>Btw did you even watch seasons 1-2 of Young Justice, it's nothing like the later seasons and does a good job at juggling such a large cast.
Young Justice is one of the most boring and homosexual cartoon made with the DC characters i've ever watched.
People were so desperate for a DC cartoon after the DCAU that they gobbled that up, but the love affair was very brief. It's a DC cartoon made for the Tumblr crowd.
>The plot was dumb shit, but its capeshit, its not important
A lot of capeshit that's liked actually had good plots that weren't stupid. Capeshit tends to allow for a bigger margin for error because more people just accept it since they're too moronic to realise its stupid >speedster that can instantly run at the speed of light loses because he's hit by something moving at normal speed
Snyder's stuff was just objectively worse in terms of writing quality and plot than your average capeshit, and even if you disagree you have to acknowledge the standard was higher for the characters and stories he was adapting and he failed to meet them for anyone but he's small niche audience.
>A lot of capeshit that's liked actually had good plots that weren't stupid.
Can you provide examples?
At least from my memory these following media had genuinely good plots with borderline trivial plot holes compared to the average capeshit. >Dark Knight >Iron Man 1 (dumb 3rd act but acceptable) >the Captain America trilogy as a whole >Infinity War (nerfed the hulk but it surprised me with the ending) >Seasons 1-2 of Young Justice
>and even if you disagree you have to acknowledge the standard was higher for the characters and stories he was adapting and he failed to meet them for anyone but he's small niche audience.
Grant Morrison disagree.
Those are good picks. Except for Captain America trilogy. I find those to be utter trash. Not sure what you like about any of those three.
Though I wouldnt call those "a lot". Those are select few that managed to have good plots. BvS is nowhere near as good plotwise as any of those, thats for sure, but good plot in capeshit is a bonus, not requirement.
>Not sure what you like about any of those three.
I haven't watched it since maybe 2019 so my memory is a bit fuzzy but it's probably the action scenes that saved it if the plot isn't as good as I remember. >Though I wouldnt call those "a lot"
If you want a lot then go through the old DCAU or Avengers EMH (haven't watched these since I was like 12). There's probably a shit tonne of good capeshit stories in there. >good plot in capeshit is a bonus, not requirement
Sure but an outrageously bad plot is going to kill any capeshit that's not riding off the hype of something like the MCU. Captain Marvel wouldn't have made half as much if it wasn't just before Infinity War. I thought it was going to be integral to the story but it wasn't.
The formula for the next few decades is making a cinematic universe that blasts through content and makes a profit because it's carried by a few good films.
>and even if you disagree you have to acknowledge the standard was higher for the characters and stories he was adapting and he failed to meet them for anyone but he's small niche audience.
Grant Morrison disagree.
Because it bills itself as a deconstruction of the characters but Zack in his moron ADHD state didn't actually care enough to set the characters up in his universe and even breaks the rules of his own deconstruction within the same fricking film
>Batman is a fricking murderer because he's on tilt because of Superman/the Metropolis attack >He's supposed to get redeemed by the MUH MARTHA moment reminding him of his original mission >THE VERY NEXT SCENE he's in after that moment shows him strafing an entire line of cars with a gatling cannon as if the Batwing is an A-10 (and we are definitively shown some of those cars were populated)
>Superman is supposed to be the world's symbol of hope >But he didn't actually do anything in Man of Steel before having a horrific explodey fight which all but levelled the all-american rustic town of Smallville before smashing Zod through fifty buildings in Metropolis and being party to (if not having a direct hand in causing) 9/11 x 1,000,000 >He also has absolutely 0 seconds dedicated to processing the fact that he murdered Zod, when you couple this with how he handles the Very few criminals we actually see him stop you could be forgiven for thinking this Superman is just okay with murder >Yet with all this we're supposed to believe Batman would second-guess himself because the alien freak he's about to spear dropped his mother's name >Snyder tries to do the Death of Superman story with a giant funeral parade and everyone sad despite the above
I'm continually frustrated and amused by how it's shilled by thirdie street shitters because it encapsulates the third world mindset absolutely - shirk the hard work, do something that looks good with absolutely no substance within or strong foundation beneath.
Zack blew his load too early. Darkseid and the anti life equation already? Metropolis destroyed in the first superman film. Batman already lost Jason Todd who's already the Joker... Snyder wasn't planning on building a DCEU that lasts decades, he wanted to do his Magnus Opus and burn the DCEU to the ground by the end of it. Even Snyderfans can't deny that, just look at the planned JL trilogy he wanted to release.
With that decision came a lot of bad writing mistakes which you'll never convince his fans are bad because Snyder seemingly made them on purpose. He doesn't care about Superman or Batman, he has his vision that he wants to do in a ridiculously short time frame.
Here are the comics inspirations for these movies from someone that actually read the comics.
MoS:
John Byrne's Man of Steel, John Byrne's World of Krypton, John Byrne's Superman: The Price, Mark Waid's Superman: Birthright, Brian Azzarello's Superman: For Tomorrow.
BvS:
John Byrne's Man of Steel, Frank Miller's The Dark Knight Returns, Dan Jurgens' The Death of Superman, Mark Waid's Superman: Birthright, Jim Starlin's Batman: A Death in the Family, Jim Starlin's Batman: Ten Nights of the Beast, Jim Starlin's Batman: The Cult, Marv Wolfman's Crisis on Infinite Earths, Grant Morrison's JLA: The Rock of Ages, Matt Wagner's Batman/Superman/Wonder Woman: Trinity.
Wasn't that bad. Looked cool too. They just needed to make it wackier and ominous like the Burton ones
>40 minutes video about why capeshit movie is le bad
Now that is bad
>thousands of hours writing greentext next to a frog
>50 minutes video about why capeshit movie is le masterpiece
>check anons post history
>400 hours of shitposting about why capeshit is bad
dont care if hes right but it is a shit movie. batman and superman are bros. if theyre going to fight it should only be after they make 6 justice league movies to finally establish a decent DCU
>They should be friends before they fight
Why is this better than fighting and becoming friends?
because the comics and cartoons exist and they are bros before they introduce any dark batman v superman shit. there can be a little conflict but they need to be on the same side until the cinematic universe is established. otherwise its just a pointless SFX showcase.
The thing that makes the fight interesting is the character dynamics and the fact that they've been friends for years, so there's complex emotions involved and factors outside "hurr durr me wanna punch that guy".
In the comics and cartoons they started as enemies, you fricking casuals.
Nobody cares about the gay 30s stuff where they start off being a bit catty with each other but then almost immediately team up. When people talk about Batman v Superman they're thinking of The Dark Knight Returns type stuff
I'm talking about the 80's reboots, you fricking idiot.
In John Byrne's mini-series, Man of Steel, that recreated Superman for the new continuity, Superman was ordered by the president to arrest Batman.
Batman was also already an established vigilante that had gone through two Robins and a Batgirl.
The DCAU cartoons by Bruce Timm and Paul Dini also had their cartoons cross-over in an especial episode where Bruce Wayne gets to cuckold Clark Kent and both Batman and Superman are frenemies.
Hell, even then the 50's remake already had them starting out as frenemies.
Shows you what you know, homosexual.
>what if we adapt these stories nobody cares about where the boys do some light b***hy low-stakes grab-ass stuff with each other
sounds great dude, you should def be in charge of making the movies
MoS is literally inspired by John Byrne's reboot, among other small stories.
they didnt always get along but they were never fighting in the streets. i dont have a problem with the concept i just think it needs to happen after they do a few movies working together and the justice league gets split by some morally ambigious disaster. i dont even know if the movie tries to provide a decent backstory because i had no interest in seeing undeveloped aflec batman doing CGI robot fights
Their friendship more often than start with them hating each other, getting into blows, and then teaming up to stop a bad guy. That's how the cliche plays out.
I'd have kept my peace if you had just said you didn't like the movie or prefer the way the DKR comic played out, but seeing people like you trying to play the authority as comics experts is just too much.
in which comic or cartoon series did batman and superman have an all out brawl before teaming up to create the justice league?
Geoff Johns' Origin arc of his Justice League comic, an almost direct inspiration for the JL/ZSJL movie.
No they didn’t . That’s post crisis crap that had 50 years of Batman and Superman being best pals
You're wrong.
Julie Schwartz was right about comics and Stan Lee was a hack.
Snyder should stick to cinematography. He has no restraint and it leads to his movies being insanely bloated and filled with stupid self-indulgent stuff.
The future / dream sequence is genuinely one of the most bizarre creative decisions I've seen in a blockbuster of this kind. An extremely stupid overly-long non-sequitur filled with stuff that is completely incomprehensible if you're not going into the movie with years of comic book knowledge under your belt. And it adds absolutely nothing. It's like they just started writing their own fanfiction halfway through.
It was such a baffling decision, specially the Flash cameo right after it
I wonder how many from the general audience even he realized that guy was supposed to be the Flash? Very few I imagine
Zack Snyder movies did suck. He made trash films, garbage
I'm a bit of a film snob. I heckle my brother-in-law because the Christian Bale versus Dragons movie "Reign of Fire" is his favorite film.
Batman V. Superman, and the other Snyder directed superhero films get me. Snyder films aren't clever, aren't amazingly written, they have a few good shots in them but even then they aren't extremely pertinent to the story.
I cannot explain to others or myself why I dig those films so much. Add them all up and I've had easily over 30 viewings of them all.
>I heckle my brother-in-law because the Christian Bale versus Dragons movie "Reign of Fire" is his favorite film.
Rude, it's far from being the worst choice for a favorite film.
It filtered millions. I hope Cinemaphile can one day see the light that it is kino
This video isn’t very good, way too focused on talking about MOS (which is just okay, in my opinion) instead of BVS
His video on Suicide Squad (the superhero movie that he does consider to be the worst one ever made) is much better
%3D%3D
Snyder failed because he made the actual fight in bvs boring as frick. Like no inspiration at all.
Imagine actually spending hours of your life listening to someone with an opinion regarding capeshit
I dont understand why people hate this capeshit in particular. Its way better than dumb shit like Black Panther, wonder woman, justice league, captain america and many others.
Benfleck was surprisingly good. Based Cavill was alright. The villain was a horrible Luthor, but a great villain nonetheless. The plot was dumb shit, but its capeshit, its not important. The fights were good and it had some really good quotes.
>You're not brave... men are brave. You say that you want to help people, but you can't feel their pain... their mortality... It's time you learn what it means to be a man
Seriously, this is some good fricking dialogue for capeshit.
It forced them out of their comfort zone. Capeshit fans are children in everything but weight.
Frick I forgot how many good quotes there are:
>You were never a god. You were never even a man.
or
>That's how it starts. The fever, the rage... The feeling of powerlessness, that turns good men... cruel
Capeshit is normally braindead, action packed fun, but BvS was actually smart here and there.
Those were all dumb brain hack Goyer. The only really quality quote was “I'm older now than my father ever was. This may be the only thing I do that matters.” The only quote that gave us an insight to this particular version of Wayne, an older more jaded and cracked Batman. Not the objectivist goyslop that Snyder has in his films.
Better quote
Both of those are great too. Thats exactly my point.
That's the issue with Snyder, he has a very specific philosophy and worldview that he tried to insert into preexisting characters that are diametrically opposed to it. A lot of symbolism, quotes and shit that work with some characters but not Superman and Batman. Snyder fans like his shit because they like Snyder content, they don't care if a Randian worldview butchers the story and makes the plot moronic.
And the notion that he challenged the narrative and the work he made wasn't for children is cope. Thomas Wayne as a Flashpoint Batman already exists so a violent angry Batman with Ben Affleck cast would have worked but he tried make Bruce that guy in a very sloppy way.
You might dislike them but their plot is a lot more logical and consistent than the Snyder films. They're also much better adaptations with a far better track record with the general public. Btw did you even watch seasons 1-2 of Young Justice, it's nothing like the later seasons and does a good job at juggling such a large cast.
>You might dislike them but their plot is a lot more logical and consistent than the Snyder films.
No, they aren't. I could literally spend an entire thread picking civil war apart for how moronic it is.
You just have shit taste, mate.
>Btw did you even watch seasons 1-2 of Young Justice, it's nothing like the later seasons and does a good job at juggling such a large cast.
Young Justice is one of the most boring and homosexual cartoon made with the DC characters i've ever watched.
People were so desperate for a DC cartoon after the DCAU that they gobbled that up, but the love affair was very brief. It's a DC cartoon made for the Tumblr crowd.
>The plot was dumb shit, but its capeshit, its not important
A lot of capeshit that's liked actually had good plots that weren't stupid. Capeshit tends to allow for a bigger margin for error because more people just accept it since they're too moronic to realise its stupid
>speedster that can instantly run at the speed of light loses because he's hit by something moving at normal speed
Snyder's stuff was just objectively worse in terms of writing quality and plot than your average capeshit, and even if you disagree you have to acknowledge the standard was higher for the characters and stories he was adapting and he failed to meet them for anyone but he's small niche audience.
>A lot of capeshit that's liked actually had good plots that weren't stupid
Name 3.
At least from my memory these following media had genuinely good plots with borderline trivial plot holes compared to the average capeshit.
>Dark Knight
>Iron Man 1 (dumb 3rd act but acceptable)
>the Captain America trilogy as a whole
>Infinity War (nerfed the hulk but it surprised me with the ending)
>Seasons 1-2 of Young Justice
>liberal complaining about politics
Wow
>>the Captain America trilogy as a whole
War (nerfed the hulk but it surprised me with the ending)
1-2 of Young Justice
Those fricking sucked.
Those are good picks. Except for Captain America trilogy. I find those to be utter trash. Not sure what you like about any of those three.
Though I wouldnt call those "a lot". Those are select few that managed to have good plots. BvS is nowhere near as good plotwise as any of those, thats for sure, but good plot in capeshit is a bonus, not requirement.
>Not sure what you like about any of those three.
I haven't watched it since maybe 2019 so my memory is a bit fuzzy but it's probably the action scenes that saved it if the plot isn't as good as I remember.
>Though I wouldnt call those "a lot"
If you want a lot then go through the old DCAU or Avengers EMH (haven't watched these since I was like 12). There's probably a shit tonne of good capeshit stories in there.
>good plot in capeshit is a bonus, not requirement
Sure but an outrageously bad plot is going to kill any capeshit that's not riding off the hype of something like the MCU. Captain Marvel wouldn't have made half as much if it wasn't just before Infinity War. I thought it was going to be integral to the story but it wasn't.
The formula for the next few decades is making a cinematic universe that blasts through content and makes a profit because it's carried by a few good films.
>A lot of capeshit that's liked actually had good plots that weren't stupid.
Can you provide examples?
>and even if you disagree you have to acknowledge the standard was higher for the characters and stories he was adapting and he failed to meet them for anyone but he's small niche audience.
Grant Morrison disagree.
Because it bills itself as a deconstruction of the characters but Zack in his moron ADHD state didn't actually care enough to set the characters up in his universe and even breaks the rules of his own deconstruction within the same fricking film
>Batman is a fricking murderer because he's on tilt because of Superman/the Metropolis attack
>He's supposed to get redeemed by the MUH MARTHA moment reminding him of his original mission
>THE VERY NEXT SCENE he's in after that moment shows him strafing an entire line of cars with a gatling cannon as if the Batwing is an A-10 (and we are definitively shown some of those cars were populated)
>Superman is supposed to be the world's symbol of hope
>But he didn't actually do anything in Man of Steel before having a horrific explodey fight which all but levelled the all-american rustic town of Smallville before smashing Zod through fifty buildings in Metropolis and being party to (if not having a direct hand in causing) 9/11 x 1,000,000
>He also has absolutely 0 seconds dedicated to processing the fact that he murdered Zod, when you couple this with how he handles the Very few criminals we actually see him stop you could be forgiven for thinking this Superman is just okay with murder
>Yet with all this we're supposed to believe Batman would second-guess himself because the alien freak he's about to spear dropped his mother's name
>Snyder tries to do the Death of Superman story with a giant funeral parade and everyone sad despite the above
I'm continually frustrated and amused by how it's shilled by thirdie street shitters because it encapsulates the third world mindset absolutely - shirk the hard work, do something that looks good with absolutely no substance within or strong foundation beneath.
Zack blew his load too early. Darkseid and the anti life equation already? Metropolis destroyed in the first superman film. Batman already lost Jason Todd who's already the Joker... Snyder wasn't planning on building a DCEU that lasts decades, he wanted to do his Magnus Opus and burn the DCEU to the ground by the end of it. Even Snyderfans can't deny that, just look at the planned JL trilogy he wanted to release.
With that decision came a lot of bad writing mistakes which you'll never convince his fans are bad because Snyder seemingly made them on purpose. He doesn't care about Superman or Batman, he has his vision that he wants to do in a ridiculously short time frame.
Here are the comics inspirations for these movies from someone that actually read the comics.
MoS:
John Byrne's Man of Steel, John Byrne's World of Krypton, John Byrne's Superman: The Price, Mark Waid's Superman: Birthright, Brian Azzarello's Superman: For Tomorrow.
BvS:
John Byrne's Man of Steel, Frank Miller's The Dark Knight Returns, Dan Jurgens' The Death of Superman, Mark Waid's Superman: Birthright, Jim Starlin's Batman: A Death in the Family, Jim Starlin's Batman: Ten Nights of the Beast, Jim Starlin's Batman: The Cult, Marv Wolfman's Crisis on Infinite Earths, Grant Morrison's JLA: The Rock of Ages, Matt Wagner's Batman/Superman/Wonder Woman: Trinity.
Most super hero films suck
BvS was just too boring considering the subject and there was never any real set up for the characters
does the directors cut make it worth a watch?