Is rebooting the multiverse equivalent of committing mass genocide?

Is rebooting the multiverse equivalent of committing mass genocide?

  1. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    depends on how you do it.

  2. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Kinda like saying Marty McFly murdered his original family

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Technically no but yes.

      The family he grew up with is gone and replaced with an admittedly better version but still not the same.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        In the case of back to the future, are they not the same? They’d be the same as far as I can tell

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          By improving his parents' lives from their teenage years onward, everything is drastically different. It might be similar but it might as well be another dimension or timeline. Marty would also have memories of the way it used to be and now how it changed after coming back from the past.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >Marty would also have memories of the way it used to be and now how it changed after coming back from the past.
            There was nothing suggesting that his memories wouldn't just also change along with everyone else's. When he altered the past so he wasn't born, it gradually started to affect him by erasing him, so it's fair to assume that it'd eventually also affect him by making him forget the original memories and replace them with new ones.

            • 2 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              >There was nothing suggesting that his memories wouldn't just also change along with everyone else's.
              Nothing except, the last 5 minutes of the first movie that shows his memories aren't changed.

              Marty is shocked about the layout of his house. Because it's clean and better furnished than the start of the movie.
              Marty is shocked his brother Dave is wearing a suit. To be discovered he has an office job, instead of a fast food job.
              Marty is shocked his mother is thin. Loraine doesn't seem like she had any weight problems in the Calvin Klein timeline.
              Lorain's idiotic view of love is not present in the post CK timeline. She isn't stopping Linda from dating and Linda is playing the field. Marty's plans with Jennifer are reframed. It went from a secret and something he dreaded his mother would "kill him" over to Loraine not just being aware but actively encouraged taking Jennifer to the lake. A total inversion.
              Marty thinks the car was totaled, thus spoiling the plans anyway. Which didn't happen because Biff didn't borrow it. Also Marty is shocked Biff is a car detailer
              Marty is shocked to be handed keys, and discover that apparently he does own an SR-5, instead of just wishing for one the previous day.

              Back to the Future has finicky time travel rules at times but personal memory is shown to basically be immutable. The timeline and events change but time travelers still remember what originally happened. The threat of the core premise is impossible otherwise. Now the Marty who is observed going back in time to 1985 at the Lone Pine Mall in the end of the first movie would have the memories of growing up with his successful parents. But exactly how that guy interacts with his loop and later return to his 1985 is never explored.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Yes. Only Marty is from the original universe. The Doc Brown from the end of the first movie and the sequels, is from the second universe.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Correct. But that doesn't have anything to do with the idea I'm arguing against that Marty's memories would be overwritten to conform to the altered timeline.

                I mean if that was going to happen it probably would have been when Marty stopped fading and the timeline "righted itself" in the middle of Earth Angel.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            they are constantly trying to avoid destroying the universe, there are no alternate dimensions is a single line.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      He did?!

  3. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Don't know don't care
    This IS a retarded thread

  4. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Genocide is only wrong if you don't get them all.
    -Machiavelli

  5. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    tree falls in the woods etc. etc.

  6. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    in DC? No.
    Both in Convergence and Flashpoint, it shows that the 'erased' timeline continues on.

  7. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    time travel isnt real
    there is only 1 dimension
    space is finite

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      nuh uh

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      History abhors paradoxes

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      VGHHHH.... PLVTVNIST CVMICS WHVN?

      History abhors paradoxes

      VGGGGHHH...... PVRVDVX TVV THV FVVBLV MVNDVD CVNTVMPLVTV THV FVRMS

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Shut up

  8. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Probably not.

  9. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    How in the fuck has there never been a "Trial of The Flash"? Not from the Justice League? Some pissed off cosmic being? No one? Barry just obliterates a timeline, """"fixes"""" it, and everyone just goes on like nothing bad happened. Wally is the only guy to have called him out. Fucking Batman of all people turns a blind eye because he got a nice letter from his daddy

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Because it'd be either prosecuting him for his actions in CoIE, which were unabashedly heroic, or acknowledging Flashpoint.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >How in the fuck has there never been a "Trial of The Flash"?
      Because casuals have been running the show ever since the Flash gained enough popularity to start getting his own adaptations.

      I mean, shit, there's technically CW Flash show that did it, but that's like saying they adapted Savitar: it's technically true, but not entirely accurate to what's being referenced.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Flash's punishment is that he gets abused every crisis and event so it evens out.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Cause if you get on his ass, then the question becomes why the hell is Zoom exempt from that same judgement considering he's the one who went back and murdered Barry's mom when she was previously alive aka almost the exact same crime Barry would be judged on.

  10. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    DC solves this by having Hypertime and Hyper-Hypertime

  11. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    I don't understand the implication. Who or what has to die to create multiple universes?

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Every time you reboot reality you're destroying the previous status quo, though it depends on how your cosmology works as

      DC solves this by having Hypertime and Hyper-Hypertime

      notes.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      I think the implication is that something new will replace the old.
      "Reboot" is a poor word choice since it sounds like the universe(s) will just repopulate the same way, because why wouldn't it?

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Previous universe had Pete Ross and Lana Lang have a child. Luthor and Contessa had a daughter. Lucy Lane and Ron Troupe had a baby, etc.

        After Flashpoint reboot, they don’t. So the children technically were killed by the Flash’s actions.

  12. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    See pic related

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      God Astro City was so good

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        I never got around to the ongoing series. How was it?

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        When does it go bad?

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >When does it go bad?
          when they stopped making it

  13. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    yes
    that’s why stone oceans ending sucks

  14. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Yes, I don't know why this isn't more of a nightmare from everyone involved.
    Do the comics never tackle this?

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      See pic related

  15. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    They still exist in that timeline right? So no, if anything all Barry did was create a whole new multiverse of people.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      That timeline is erased and replaced with the one he creates in its place. The versions of those characters are gone. In the comics they get merged with the pre-Flashpoint versions but that didn't happen in the movies although Constantine seems to be aware of both.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Wouldn't it just become a glorified elseworld story? Or is that not how it works

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          If it's merged like in the comics then it's a mix and match of two continuities. If it's getting rid of one and replacing it with another like in the movie then it's the new main universe. To create an elseworld would mean it'd have to have both existing separately. The Flashpoint timeline ended up becoming that when Johns brought it back.

  16. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >Is rebooting the multiverse equivalent of committing mass genocide?
    No

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Earth-2 Superman's mistake was not mentioning to New Earth Bruce that he had a daughter and was happily married.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      What's Golden Age Supes's problem with his Earth's Dick Grayson? Golden Age Robin grew up to join the JSA.
      Is he just saying he's just as good as Nightwing? Because it doesn't come off that way.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >Is he just saying he's just as good as Nightwing?
        Yes but more so he's saying Nightwing is just as good as his Dick Grayson so his whole "everyone would be better" isn't true

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          It just comes off as so needlessly dour.
          If Superman had just said "No, but he's just as good" he might have still convinced Batman. Why destroy his own argument like that?

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >If Superman had just said "No, but he's just as good" he might have still convinced Batman
            Superman said they'd be better not "just as good" which isn't what he promised and remember he said he never lies
            >Why destroy his own argument like that?
            Because E2 superman isn't evil

  17. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    He's not even on Stars level

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >Star is from another dimension than the one the Earth setting takes place in
      >Ends up removing all of the magic that exists in her dimension and merges it with Earth, leaving non-magic monsters running around the planet and whatever magical beings that were around LIKE HER BEST FRIEND probably fucking dead because magic no longer exists
      >By this logic it's entirely possible that every universe in her multiversal "disc" also suddenly lost all their magic and/or merged with other dimensions, killing who knows how many more people in the process
      >She doesn't even stay in her ship with Marco after the end according to the creator
      It's fascinating how a show can drop the ball so hard innit

  18. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    DC should unironically destroy all their realities and just do stories in Limbo. The more they shit up their canon and cosmology, the more I become convinced of that.

  19. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Why is Constantine wearing Flash's costume?

  20. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    darkseid already genocided that universe so no harm done

  21. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    If someone were to say yes, then that person would also have to acknowledge that it would also create an entire new race of humans(and everything else). So by the end of the day it's on average +-0 difference.
    I'm not saying this is moral, but to just look at the genocide part and not acknowledge the creating life out of nothing part would be disingenuous.
    Like, let's say person X murdered his wife, then took a blood sample, created a clone of the same age as the original wife, but without any diseases or cancer and whatever you can think of, and she is also more attractive, and then adds in the a replica of the original mind. Would you really say that person is nothing more than a murderer?

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Most atheists would

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        I don't see why. Atheist, in the way you use that word, would acknowledge that there is no difference, other than an improvement.
        Believers in spiritual would assume the original soul died, but a new soul with the same conditions as the original was created, essentially making the scientist on the same level as their assumption of what a god could do.
        Thus regardless of the scenario, theism has nothing to do with the question at hand.

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          I took it from the doctrine that considers it not kay to destroy the mortal existence for a better existence of similar copies.
          Although there's no unified concept of an afterlife even among the main branches of Christianity I believe that a common denominator is that the souls of people are similar but distinct from humans. Given that they're able to happily be close to God for eternity.
          Now it's possible to reject this because even that were true the fact that the suffering occurred makes this an unfair existence, that reality is fundamentally evil.

  22. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    No
    Yes
    Maybe

  23. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    For me the worst part of this shit is there would always be other people trying that. So boom you rewrote the history hehe too bad someone else is rewriting it now again.

  24. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    But technically Barry never killed anyone by doing that.

  25. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    That depends entirely on whether you're the one doing it or someone else is. Because when Superboy Prime wanted to do it everyone acted like he was trying to kill the entire universe. Of course he *did* kill alot of people, but that wouldn't have mattered anymore after he reset the universe, which is why he didn't care.

  26. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Short answer yes with an if, long answer no with a but

  27. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    So, wait, every time Trunks travels through time he creates a new timeline, right?

    So Trunks Prime goes to the past to give Goku the heart medicine and fight the androids creating a new timeline with kid trunks in it. Then he goes back to his home universe and gets killed by cell. Cell goes back in time again making a third split in the timeline for the events we know...
    But who the fuck is the Trunks in this timeline?
    Trunks Prime fought the androids in timeline 2 and then went home and died, so who travels to timeline 3 to fight Cell?

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >Future Trunks is the original Trunks
      >Kid Trunks is Trunks2
      >Future Trunks returns to Original Future
      >Trunks 2 gets killed by Cell in Future2
      >Main timeline Kid Trunks is now Trunks3, series continues as Future3

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        i left a line out
        >Trunks2 gets killed by Cell in Future2
        >Krillin destroys Cell Embryo creating Future 3
        >Main timelike Kid Trunks is now Trunks3, series continues as Future3

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >Future Trunks is the original Trunks
          >Kid Trunks is Trunks2
          >Future Trunks returns to Original Future
          >Trunks 2 gets killed by Cell in Future2
          >Main timeline Kid Trunks is now Trunks3, series continues as Future3

          >Kid Trunks is Trunks 2
          Ok
          >Trunks 2 gets killed by cell in future 2
          That makes no sense
          Timeline 2 has no time machine and no mirai trunks. The androids lost and Cell didn't show.
          >Krillin destroys cell embryo creating timeline 3
          Only time travel can create timelines

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Timelines split not just because time travel happened, but because of the actions time travelers take. No one would have killed Cell if Cell wasn't discovered, didn't explain his history, and spur Krillin and Trunks to find his larval form and kill it.

            • 2 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              >Timelines split not just because time travel happened, but because of the actions time travelers take.
              Literally just wrong. It is established fact that timeline splits are caused by the machine and rings of time.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >It is established fact that timeline splits are caused by the machine and rings of time.
                You are confused, it is the actions that cause the different time lines, nothing will change as long as you travel to the past and do not touch anything.

  28. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >Is rebooting the multiverse equivalent of committing mass genocide?
    No, it's just a sign of increasing desperation.

  29. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    [...]

    I thought Crispin Glover didn't come back because he thought George was equally the protagonist as Marty was in Back to the Future and wanted to be paid a million dollars in 1980s money for the part.

  30. 2 weeks ago
    guy

    The eleutheromaniacs who consume media like this tend to have no problem with things like genocide.

  31. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Thats the thing with changing timelines. Does the original timeline simply ceases to exist for all, or jut for the person that travelled time?
    If it's the former, then it kind of is, even though they will exist on the other timeline you go to. If not, then it's kind of messed up too, because you are leaving behind a completely doomed timeline. What about the innocent there? Your friends and family?

    Better not to mess with that kind of stuff altogether.

  32. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    He's on pardon thanks to Batgod

  33. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    [...]

    It brings up uncomfortable questions similar to clones. If your family is killed but then cloned, are they still your family? Would you think of them as a replacement for the one you lost or the same as before as if nothing happened? Would you always be on the lookout for behavior you wouldn't expect?

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Thats the thing with changing timelines. Does the original timeline simply ceases to exist for all, or jut for the person that travelled time?
      If it's the former, then it kind of is, even though they will exist on the other timeline you go to. If not, then it's kind of messed up too, because you are leaving behind a completely doomed timeline. What about the innocent there? Your friends and family?

      Better not to mess with that kind of stuff altogether.

      It's very easy if you picture timelines as individual simulations
      Multiverse time travel is akin to copying the previous memory state of the sim to a new instance and patching in the new person/item
      Single-timeline time travel is akin to using the rewind function.

      The issue of murder, though, is essentially just semantics. What you call it really isn't important, some forms of time travel do cause people that existed in some form and had lives to stop existing.

      The only time travel plot I've seen actually address this issue is Samurai Jack after the fact, the idea being that everyone's souls are still fated to be born and their lives will all be better without Aku

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Saying it would be different from living it. I doubt anyone can really dismiss those thoughts completely.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        But what happens to the people that are in those sims? Do they stop existing altogether, or just for the one time travelling?

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Yeah is rebooting the universe just the traveler getting to enjoy a better reality while the other one rots?

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            I always thought that's what happened. I guess it doesn't make much difference for the time traveler if he doesn't think about it, but...

  34. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Eh, destroying an entire universe doesn't really matter. It's not like anyone would know any better because if reality were to suddenly be rewritten it's not like anyone would carry any memories of what transpired. It's not like the previous universes residents were painfully and horrifically torn asunder when reality was restarted.

    It just seems bad on paper. In reality it's mostly immaterial. Reality is entirely based around perception and if you can't perceive that you aren't the first iteration of a universe then what that universe was before yours is moot.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      I used "it's not like" way too many fucking times in that post.

  35. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    More like putting it in a bottle and leaving it on a shelf

  36. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >universe gets invaded by the vengeful ghosts of destroyed timelines
    What now, bitch?

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      We call the Ghostbusters.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      We call the Ghostbusters.

      This would be the perfect way for Ghostbusters to capitalize on the multiverse craze. Someone call Sony right now.

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