it happens exactly like this in the book but with a slightly more verbose way of saying "I'm no man". Tolkien's dialogue for Éowyn was honestly pretty fricking bad despite her story arc being quite good. the movie translated it very well and made her more of a character without changing her at all
It's similar, except they skipped a part in the first movie where the hobbits pick up some ancient dagger in a burial mound. The dagger is enchanted with ancient magic that allows the witch king to be actually killed. The dagger is destroyed in the process of stabbing him with it.
It isn't a loophole in some magic or anything like that.
In that you get a little more information, I guess so. I believe it was Glorfindel who made that prophecy after showing up to a battle and watching the Witch King run away like a b***h at the sight of Elf Jesus. You're also given a bit more of a reason to believe that Merry's knife could actually have killed Old Man pervious, as it wasn't given to him by Galadriel but found in an ancient burial mound on the Barrow Downs, and was definitely magical.
The line is said in the book but then goes into detail that indicates she isn't significant because she's a woman, but that she's significant because she's Theoden's kin out to avenge him
Way earlier in the book, the Avatar of Nature itself made sure Merry was armed with a Blade that was mostly likely specifically crafted by the Witch King's old enemies specifically to destroy Nazgul. Most likely out of divine prescience and to take revenge against the Witch King who had desecrated his sacred grove in his old wars against the North Kingdom. So it wasn't exactly out of left field but rather carefully set up and another act of divine intervention. Really every major enemy in the book was defeated by an act of divine intervention, the Balrog, the Witch King and the destruction of the One Ring/Sauron. But all of them were very subtle so as not to be a gross display of power by Divinity and relied on Faith and the willingness of mortals to push themselves to their limits for the Divine to carry of an act of Heaven.
Eowyn was also set up specifically to be an exceptional individual and fulfill the role she did. But also in the end all she did was manage to dismount the Witch King and deliver a finishing blow to an already fatally wounded Witch King who was defeated by the spells in the Blade(and his arrogance in ignoring the wounded hobbit behind him). Bombadil was probably laughing his ass off while he was fricking his river nymph when it happened.
So yes it was a much better payoff in the book when everyone was expecting Gandalf to magically duke it out on page with the Witch King but instead he got taken out by a fricking hobbit and a women like a punk.
>Merry was armed with a Blade that was mostly likely specifically crafted by the Witch King's old enemies specifically to destroy Nazgul
Yes, in fact there is a specific passage in that scene that says exactly this.
>So passed the sword of the Barrow-downs, work of Westernesse. But glad would he have been to know its fate who wrought it slowly long ago in the North-kingdom when the Dúnedain were young, and chief among their foes was the dread realm of Angmar and its sorcerer king. No other blade, not though mightier hands had wielded it, would have dealt that foe a wound so bitter, cleaving the undead flesh, breaking the spell that knit his unseen sinews to his will.
Yes but I am extracting from that it was probably purposefully crafted by that Dúnedain smith to destroy the Witch King personally. After all, there is no mention of the other Nazgul being active in Angmar which means if the blade was spelled to defeat a Nazgul then most likely it was intended specifically to kill the Witch King. And somehow preserved through the annals of history to end up at the precise time and place where it could do what it was intended to do.
>And somehow preserved through the annals of history to end up at the precise time and place where it could do what it was intended to do.
that is one of the major themes of LotR. not so much the "somehow" but the middle earth version of the christian god (since tolkien was a catholic) has a plan for every one and everything and by doing the right thing he will help good people by making sure everything is at the right time and place. another example is that he made sure gollum would end up at mt doom to destroy the ring. or the gandalf quote of >a wizard is never late or early.
in the books the hobbits get magic ring wrath killing swords before they meet strider (in the film strider gives the swords to them) so she only managed to kill the witch king because he had just been stabbed by a magic sword 10 seconds earlier
>(in the film strider gives the swords to them)
I think the blade Merry uses to stab the witch king is the dagger he got from Galadriel, but the dagger-giving is only shown in the extended edition if memory serves.
In any case, people both in-universe and out-of-universe misinterpret the prophecy. It was never about who "could" kill the Witch King, merely about who eventually would. There is no reason why a man couldn't slay him in the right circumstances. The prophecy tells that he will be slain by someone who is not a man because that is what is fated to happen, but it does not bestow him some kind of invincibility against males.
>"Even the wisest cannot tell. For the mirror… shows many things…" >"…things that were… things that are… and some things… that have not yet come to pass."
fun fact: the line was supposed to be "i am norman" and she was supposed to reveal herself as a male named norman who was disguised as a woman (le punny name), but the actress ad libbed and peter jackson loved it
It’s one of the most memed exchanges in all of fiction you disingenuous moron.
Beyond that, it’s like hearing a joke once and smirking and then suddenly every kid in school is parroting it and it gets annoying
That scene is meant to be witty, like a riddle , not wymn-empowering. also i dont mind a bit of pro-women stuff. It’s the nigs shoehorned in european lore i cant stand. not all woke is the same.
It came about because Tolkien was mad at the prophecy in Macbeth and tried to make another one.
Also the barrow blade was forged during the war for Arnor in the witchkings‘s reign of terror and necromancy so there is double irony. The prophecy comes true and the Karma for sending the the barrow wrightes comes due
People have criticized and joked about that line for 20 years. Also, its a false equivalency. One single line in a 3 movie trilogy doesn't compare to Hollywood these days, where entire franchises are thinly-veiled propaganda pieces to push left-wing racial/feminist/LGBT grievance politics.
This was an annoying little bit, and we knew it was fan service for the women in the audience who had to otherwise endure a long action movie. But they weren't replacing Aragorn with a trans black woman or anything like that so no not really woke as a whole. Nice try
LOTR is about tiny, cute rabbit people saving the entire world and defeating the Big Bad. And you are concerned about woke? It‘s a complete subversion of Germanic Pagan mythology by making this a story about the meek and innocent winning the day. You only don’t realize this, because it‘s western fantasy. So the hobbits in western movies aren‘t cute. Instead you get horrifying scenes where the proudfoot hobbits put their dirty British feet on the tabel. Imagine what LOTR would have looked like in Japan. They would have made them cute and adorable.
It's the opposite of woke because it's based on the realistic assumption that a woman is simply not expected to kill le big bad villain. The whole point is that she turned out to be the fulfiller of the prophecy while everyone else expected it to be a man as women are much weaker in comparison.
Get it now? Not sure I can break it down any simpler than that. Maybe try watching less cucker and engage in real life activities. Connect with old friends, meet new people, find a hobby. You and half this thread are clearly mentally trapped in the manufactured outrage machine along with the trannies and palestine supporters. Just go offline and live in the real world for a bit, I promise it's not as bad as you've been gaslit into believing.
It's not woke.
The prophecy isn't a "he won't be killed by men, that means only women can kill him" but rather "I literally saw the exact moment in the future where Eowyn would murder the witch king, so I know for sure that the witch king will be killed by this specific woman, who will only do it because a hobbit will stab the witch king with a special dagger created to kill ringwraiths and has the special power of making them mortals"
>entire story arc of "medieval" female trying to join the boys club >has been done countless of times in other genres like Mulan for example
The Atlantis thread reminded me of the Sinbad animated movie which features a minor love story and even that movie bothered to establish his love interest's background to the point where it's not forced.
These days it's not only done very poorly, it's done with the purpose of diversity box-ticking.
We can discuss the chicken and egg 24/7, but at the end of the day not a single female character in the last 10 years wasn't already surpassed in her genre or even franchise by an older movie or show.
The biggest irony is that the sexist male white writers did female representation far better than these woke women did.
In older movies women have to work hard and end up proving themselves strong enough to persist in a "man's world" they are distinctively "women" as they struggle and prevail.
Modern movies just throw a tiny girl at you with "oh yeah I'm a tier 1 navy seal, crossbowman and I bench 400 lbs, didn't I mention that? Teehehee".
By doing that they essentially have made female characters replaceable by men. If your "female" character is so sexless, so "not" female that she could be replaced by a male character with basically a name change you haven't created a female character.
This also includes gay characters which often are created to serve the role of a "woman".
Its because of people like you that we have "woke" shit. No one cared about this line until last year. Zoomers will politicize anything out of sheer boredom and internet rot.
>woman correctly points out that she is not a man
The opposite of woke.
this. also the man-not-a-man prophecy is a literary trope.
Flippity Bippity
honestly don't know a single person who liked this
is it less moronic in the books?
it happens exactly like this in the book but with a slightly more verbose way of saying "I'm no man". Tolkien's dialogue for Éowyn was honestly pretty fricking bad despite her story arc being quite good. the movie translated it very well and made her more of a character without changing her at all
Doing it in a non quippy way would have been a big improvement
or this
delusion. Hollywood has been woke forever
It's similar, except they skipped a part in the first movie where the hobbits pick up some ancient dagger in a burial mound. The dagger is enchanted with ancient magic that allows the witch king to be actually killed. The dagger is destroyed in the process of stabbing him with it.
It isn't a loophole in some magic or anything like that.
In that you get a little more information, I guess so. I believe it was Glorfindel who made that prophecy after showing up to a battle and watching the Witch King run away like a b***h at the sight of Elf Jesus. You're also given a bit more of a reason to believe that Merry's knife could actually have killed Old Man pervious, as it wasn't given to him by Galadriel but found in an ancient burial mound on the Barrow Downs, and was definitely magical.
The line is said in the book but then goes into detail that indicates she isn't significant because she's a woman, but that she's significant because she's Theoden's kin out to avenge him
Way earlier in the book, the Avatar of Nature itself made sure Merry was armed with a Blade that was mostly likely specifically crafted by the Witch King's old enemies specifically to destroy Nazgul. Most likely out of divine prescience and to take revenge against the Witch King who had desecrated his sacred grove in his old wars against the North Kingdom. So it wasn't exactly out of left field but rather carefully set up and another act of divine intervention. Really every major enemy in the book was defeated by an act of divine intervention, the Balrog, the Witch King and the destruction of the One Ring/Sauron. But all of them were very subtle so as not to be a gross display of power by Divinity and relied on Faith and the willingness of mortals to push themselves to their limits for the Divine to carry of an act of Heaven.
Eowyn was also set up specifically to be an exceptional individual and fulfill the role she did. But also in the end all she did was manage to dismount the Witch King and deliver a finishing blow to an already fatally wounded Witch King who was defeated by the spells in the Blade(and his arrogance in ignoring the wounded hobbit behind him). Bombadil was probably laughing his ass off while he was fricking his river nymph when it happened.
So yes it was a much better payoff in the book when everyone was expecting Gandalf to magically duke it out on page with the Witch King but instead he got taken out by a fricking hobbit and a women like a punk.
>Merry was armed with a Blade that was mostly likely specifically crafted by the Witch King's old enemies specifically to destroy Nazgul
Yes, in fact there is a specific passage in that scene that says exactly this.
>So passed the sword of the Barrow-downs, work of Westernesse. But glad would he have been to know its fate who wrought it slowly long ago in the North-kingdom when the Dúnedain were young, and chief among their foes was the dread realm of Angmar and its sorcerer king. No other blade, not though mightier hands had wielded it, would have dealt that foe a wound so bitter, cleaving the undead flesh, breaking the spell that knit his unseen sinews to his will.
Yes but I am extracting from that it was probably purposefully crafted by that Dúnedain smith to destroy the Witch King personally. After all, there is no mention of the other Nazgul being active in Angmar which means if the blade was spelled to defeat a Nazgul then most likely it was intended specifically to kill the Witch King. And somehow preserved through the annals of history to end up at the precise time and place where it could do what it was intended to do.
>And somehow preserved through the annals of history to end up at the precise time and place where it could do what it was intended to do.
that is one of the major themes of LotR. not so much the "somehow" but the middle earth version of the christian god (since tolkien was a catholic) has a plan for every one and everything and by doing the right thing he will help good people by making sure everything is at the right time and place. another example is that he made sure gollum would end up at mt doom to destroy the ring. or the gandalf quote of >a wizard is never late or early.
I did. Eowyn, Faramir and Boromir have always been my favourite characters since I read LOTR 30 years ago.
in the books the hobbits get magic ring wrath killing swords before they meet strider (in the film strider gives the swords to them) so she only managed to kill the witch king because he had just been stabbed by a magic sword 10 seconds earlier
>(in the film strider gives the swords to them)
I think the blade Merry uses to stab the witch king is the dagger he got from Galadriel, but the dagger-giving is only shown in the extended edition if memory serves.
In any case, people both in-universe and out-of-universe misinterpret the prophecy. It was never about who "could" kill the Witch King, merely about who eventually would. There is no reason why a man couldn't slay him in the right circumstances. The prophecy tells that he will be slain by someone who is not a man because that is what is fated to happen, but it does not bestow him some kind of invincibility against males.
It's not actually bullshit semantics though is it, Merry stabs the witch king with a Númenórean blade which opens him up to be killed, no?
>Witch King is weak to this hyper specific thing and Merry just happens to have it
Tolkien was a hack holy shit
>"Even the wisest cannot tell. For the mirror… shows many things…"
>"…things that were… things that are… and some things… that have not yet come to pass."
Just happens, eh?
>>"…things that were… things that are… and some things… that have not yet come to pass."
Even worse
>'T-Tolkien wasn't a hack. He was an even bigger one!'
lmao
The tone in the book isn't cringe. He also fricked her up pretty good.
It's part of Tolkien's axe to grind with Macbeth.
The prophecies pissed him off because the woods didn't literally get up and walk.
This one actually worked as a proper subversion of "no man of woman born" though.
This was before right wing media told them to be mad about woke
You clearly were a neonate when this released, so you can go ahead and shut up.
>told them
Meds, dipshit
this was before there was an agenda in media*
LotR wasn't filmed in the 19th century lmao.
I bet it’s like one guy spamming all these culture war bait threads.
I'm surprised Shakespeare didn't pull this shit in Macbeth.
the only reason why that worked was because Merry slashed him with an enchanted blade
is that 2 seconds in my 9 hour chudfest? ahhhhh
Closer to 11 hours, really. It must piss you off that you can't take it away from us.
hollywood saw this and said "so you like woke, eh? here's an endless supply"
biggest KWAB in the trilogy?
fun fact: the line was supposed to be "i am norman" and she was supposed to reveal herself as a male named norman who was disguised as a woman (le punny name), but the actress ad libbed and peter jackson loved it
It’s one of the most memed exchanges in all of fiction you disingenuous moron.
Beyond that, it’s like hearing a joke once and smirking and then suddenly every kid in school is parroting it and it gets annoying
does they/them work? what about she/her?
>I am no he/him, I am they/them!
>stabs
>no reaction
That scene is meant to be witty, like a riddle , not wymn-empowering. also i dont mind a bit of pro-women stuff. It’s the nigs shoehorned in european lore i cant stand. not all woke is the same.
if it's well written then it doesn't matter if it's woke.
it's just that if you're a woke writer, chances are you're also a talentless hack.
i didnt like it and i didnt watch anything related since
>killed by semantics
>killed by semantics
Happens to the best of us.
Semantics, not semitics.
>>it’s not woke when I like it
Correct
It came about because Tolkien was mad at the prophecy in Macbeth and tried to make another one.
Also the barrow blade was forged during the war for Arnor in the witchkings‘s reign of terror and necromancy so there is double irony. The prophecy comes true and the Karma for sending the the barrow wrightes comes due
People have criticized and joked about that line for 20 years. Also, its a false equivalency. One single line in a 3 movie trilogy doesn't compare to Hollywood these days, where entire franchises are thinly-veiled propaganda pieces to push left-wing racial/feminist/LGBT grievance politics.
This was an annoying little bit, and we knew it was fan service for the women in the audience who had to otherwise endure a long action movie. But they weren't replacing Aragorn with a trans black woman or anything like that so no not really woke as a whole. Nice try
Thats not a problem because its faithful to the original work.
>YOU FRICKING CHUDS WITH YOUR NUANCED OPINIONS, WHY DONT YOU HATE LITERALLY EVERYTHING????? FRICKING HYPOCRITES
It was made fun of when it released
>what is a woman?
I thought it was Merry who killed him, hobbits aren’t men either
i saw this in theaters when it released and recall that it was an eyerolling moment for many nerdy white males (proto-incels)
Don't think you know what "nerdy" means.
consuming fantasy media means you are a nerd
lol this
>strong wymin poropaganda
>racemixing propaganda
its like every other woke movie... BUT BASED
LOTR is about tiny, cute rabbit people saving the entire world and defeating the Big Bad. And you are concerned about woke? It‘s a complete subversion of Germanic Pagan mythology by making this a story about the meek and innocent winning the day. You only don’t realize this, because it‘s western fantasy. So the hobbits in western movies aren‘t cute. Instead you get horrifying scenes where the proudfoot hobbits put their dirty British feet on the tabel. Imagine what LOTR would have looked like in Japan. They would have made them cute and adorable.
this moment and the killing of sauron the chud lord are the only good parts in this chuddie series that is aimed at incels
>Gets stabbed by Merry in the ankle
It's the opposite of woke because it's based on the realistic assumption that a woman is simply not expected to kill le big bad villain. The whole point is that she turned out to be the fulfiller of the prophecy while everyone else expected it to be a man as women are much weaker in comparison.
Get it now? Not sure I can break it down any simpler than that. Maybe try watching less cucker and engage in real life activities. Connect with old friends, meet new people, find a hobby. You and half this thread are clearly mentally trapped in the manufactured outrage machine along with the trannies and palestine supporters. Just go offline and live in the real world for a bit, I promise it's not as bad as you've been gaslit into believing.
It's not woke.
The prophecy isn't a "he won't be killed by men, that means only women can kill him" but rather "I literally saw the exact moment in the future where Eowyn would murder the witch king, so I know for sure that the witch king will be killed by this specific woman, who will only do it because a hobbit will stab the witch king with a special dagger created to kill ringwraiths and has the special power of making them mortals"
>entire story arc of "medieval" female trying to join the boys club
>has been done countless of times in other genres like Mulan for example
The Atlantis thread reminded me of the Sinbad animated movie which features a minor love story and even that movie bothered to establish his love interest's background to the point where it's not forced.
These days it's not only done very poorly, it's done with the purpose of diversity box-ticking.
We can discuss the chicken and egg 24/7, but at the end of the day not a single female character in the last 10 years wasn't already surpassed in her genre or even franchise by an older movie or show.
The biggest irony is that the sexist male white writers did female representation far better than these woke women did.
In older movies women have to work hard and end up proving themselves strong enough to persist in a "man's world" they are distinctively "women" as they struggle and prevail.
Modern movies just throw a tiny girl at you with "oh yeah I'm a tier 1 navy seal, crossbowman and I bench 400 lbs, didn't I mention that? Teehehee".
By doing that they essentially have made female characters replaceable by men. If your "female" character is so sexless, so "not" female that she could be replaced by a male character with basically a name change you haven't created a female character.
This also includes gay characters which often are created to serve the role of a "woman".
Its because of people like you that we have "woke" shit. No one cared about this line until last year. Zoomers will politicize anything out of sheer boredom and internet rot.
This was a badass moment and woke wasn't a thing yet.