>Joffrey has a chance to stop the war with The North before it really starts by letting Ned take the black but ignored his mother's and Varys's advice because he wants to feel like a big man making big kingly decisions
>Robb, after pushing Tywin and Jaime's shit in, has a chance to continue winning but chooses to marry some random whore who takes his fancy against the advice of his mother and advisors because he wants to feel like a big man making big kingly decisions
They were both really bad at being kings and got what they deserved. GoT overall is a warning against ego and hubris.
nah Robb was raiding Tywin's lands and took a wound, and while being nursed to health by a western maid learned his brothers were dead so he had to get it on
much more sensible
Isn't the theory Joffrey killed Ned on suggestion by Littlefinger?
no
Yes it is.
it was 100% joffery being a stupid shit. The only thing little finger had a hand in was screwing over ned and having the gold cloaks take cersei's side.
>be ned
>finally figure out that Joffrey is Jaime and Cersei's kid
>eyup Cerseh ow bout you remove joffreh or it'll be rite dishonerable
>get head cut off
Ned was honestly just kind of dumb when it comes down to it
Ned knew Robert was responsible for killing Targaryen children and felt like he's partially responsible as well. He didn't want that to happen agan and honestly he'd probably rather die than witness it. After Roberts death when Renly approached him to seize the crown he was still worried about Renlys intentions to harm them.
Robert never killed Targaryen children. Tywin Lannister ordered Amory Lorch and the Mountain to kill the Targaryen children and Ellia Martell. Robert and Ned saw the aftermath and Ned was furious. Robert kinda shrugged and gave zero fucks, which led to them falling out until they put down nagger Balon’s rebellion. But Ned knew he would kill any Targaryens he could so he kept Jon’s parentage a secret.
Thats right, though they're falling out could suggest maybe he thought Robert had a hand in it as well. Regardless, he didn't want that shit to keep happening and he knew Robert would try to genocide the Lannisters if he found out.
Nah, I understand what you’re thinking but it was very clear cut that Robert had no hand in their death. Ned was just mad that he didn’t do anything about their murders when Tywin presented him with their dead bodies wrapped in Lannister cloaks.
That’s not taking away from Ned’s fear that Robert would kill Jon if he knew the truth about him. Even Lyanna knew what he would do.
Ned was an honorable and chivalric man in a world where honor and chivalry means little. at least outside of the north. as its clear that the North is conspiring to kill the Boltons and freys partially because of the memory and legacy of Stark honor and rule
It's not just Ned. The Starks ruled that place for thousands of years. The Boltons really fucked up.
Ned was a provincial lord being tossed into the heart of Byzantium.
>Ned was honestly just kind of dumb when it comes down to it
That's true. The man had a black-and-white view of a world surrounded by gray.
The show presents him this way because all we get to see is his actions. In his POV chapters actually let you see the logic in his internal monologue. Most of his actions that seem retarded without that is just do to him being unfamiliar with that kind of environment.
His chapters don't help that case. They just further prove how naive he was. Little Finger told him not to trust anyone in that place. It'slike the one time LF was actually up front about how shit is going to go and it ends up being to the most bullheaded person.
He was mostly unlucky as shit though. As
points out, he came into the political game with a weak hand, but by all rights he should have had plenty of support. The capital should have been flush with Stormlanders and Valemen by sheer virtue of Robert and Jon Arryn being the rulers for 15 years, but Ned comes down to find apparently those assholes spent the entire time napping and there's Lannister stooges everywhere. Even telling Cersei would have been fine, since most of her "Assassinate Robert" plans are about as active as "Have the horns on his helmet made extra large and hope he gets hit by lightning", but then because he can't find a stag during his hunt Robert ends up going after a monster boar that appears from nowhere, getting put on his death bed.
I guess Robert never really gave a shit.
People listened to him and generally he didn't really want to do much other than chill and party, so he didn't feel the need to stuff the Court with his own men in specific.
Tywin on the other hand spent every moment he could putting his followers wherever he could fit them.
>Even telling Cersei would have been fine, since most of her "Assassinate Robert" plans are about as active as "Have the horns on his helmet made extra large and hope he gets hit by lightning"
kek
>Robert ends up going after a monster boar that appears from nowhere
That boar? Warged by Bran
Ned's plan wasn't horrible until Cersei manages to assassinate Robert by having Lancel give him too much wine, which is one of the worst assassination plots I've ever heard of. That is somehow successful, and throws a wrench in Ned's plan to tell Robert, AFTER Cersei flees because she would be retarded not to flee when Robert would kill her and probably her kids when told the truth. Ned had PTSD from the Targaryen children and wanted them to flee.
Now, him declining the support of Renly afterwards was absolutely retarded. I even analyzed that chapter carefully to see if Renly really gave him cause with his allegiance to Stannis as heir, and it really doesn't seem justifiable on Ned's part, and is more about "I will not dishonor Robert's last moments" and paint himself as a villain by seizing them immediately.
A boar can definitely fuck you up IRL.
It's just ridiculous that there was simultaneously a boar big enough to do it to Robert, that it magically appeared right after Ned threatened Cersei, and that somehow Robert being drunk caused him to suck just enough at fighting (the only thing he was good at) in order to die to it. It's just a little too coincidental. But GRRM was basically like "FUCK IT" at that point in the first book.
It's not much of a coincidence
>Rob is always drunk
>Rob is fat and old, and is decades past his fighting prime
>he was out on a hunt and specifically seeking out boars
If he's always drunk and always hunting, why would giving him stronger wine while hunting be a legitimate assassination plot?
He didn't even set out looking for boars actually, he was hunting a white stag only to find that wolves got to it first, then he heard about the boar and figured "Fuck it, that'll do."
He's a str main, not speced for bows and agility. Why would he prefer to hunt deer over boars?
Hmmm the internet is telling me stags will generally run away at first sight but may attack humans when threatened or during mating season. I'm just saying I doubt Bobby could get close enough fast enough on a stag.
it is retarded that Eddard allowed Robert to just leave with the Queen's nephew without actually telling him. He could've taken Renly's offer for help and just given him vague words, not promises, rather than insisting Stannis would become King
I never interpreted it as him actually getting attacked by a real boar. I think it's pretty clear that they staged an attack after getting him wasted. Ned's plan was stupid because it hinged on him thinking Cersei was some scared and honorable housewife what would wait for men to decide her fate. All he ended up doing was speeding up her timeline.
Are you fucking retarded? He didn't die immediately. He said he was gored by a boar. Not to mention his fucking retinue that was in attendance, including the most honorable man ever Barristan the Bold and his fucking brother.
They were on the trip. Doesn't mean that everyone was by his side. His drunk ass could have been told he was hit by anything and he'd say yeah ok.
They were by his side, Robert told Selmy to stand aside while he killed the boar.
Magick
>Isn't the theory Joffrey killed Ned on suggestion by Littlefinger?
It is definitely implied as a possibility, with Tyrion thinking that someone must have given the idea to Joffrey and Littlefinger admitting that giving other people ideas is his modus operandi. Also Littlefinger had a personal reason to want Ned dead.
definitely possible considering little fingers goal of causing chaos. but I very much doubt Joffrey would take the advice of someone who is seen as being of such low birth
The show is too dumb for this, but in the books to like 99% of people Littlefinger purposefully pretends to be a humble, dutiful master of coin who just wants to serve the realm. Only like Tyrion and Varys know just how conniving he really is and about his extensive spy network. A brainlet like Joffrey would be easy for him to plant an idea and make him think he thought of it in the first place.
>to like 99% of people Littlefinger purposefully pretends to be a humble, dutiful master of coin
Which makes no sense. You shouldn't have to be a genius to see that he's conniving.
you forget that lords and ladies in westeros have a willfull blindness to those they consider to be of lower station
He's just a minor lord. A little guy. A little friendly guy who is good at math. Math is such a middle class thing, Real Lords have maesters to do their math for them. Look at the little guy. He's so friendly and helpful!
This is literally how a lot of the dumb characters in KL view Baelish, except for the very cunning. Of course, we know Cersei is quite possibly the worst politician ever especially after giving away the royal navy to pirate because he looks like her high school crush and was nice, Robert didn't give a fuck about politics and as long as there was peace he didn't care, John Arryn was neutralized by LF because he never suspected his wife was his stooge, Stannis we don't really know other than he wasn't friendly with LF or anyone on the council and just did his job as master of ships, Renly was a young teen who was full of himself and easily flattered, Pycelle is a curious case ,though, he may be wise to LF's antics like Tyrion and Varys but I can't remember if the books ever say. Then Joff gets the Off and Baellish goes play pretend Lord Paramount of the Vale.
So they're just dumb then or just going along with the bit, that would make more sense. At least the ones on the SC taking things seriously.
I think its more that GRRM is trying to show how inept King Robert was at managing his realm. Also in the first book, if you hadn't seen the TV show first, LF's betrayal of Ned is kinda a surprise. Cat trusted LF because they grew up together, he seemed to be showing Ned the ropes of KL politics, and helping out Ned's cold case file about Jon Arryn. The book does a much better job at hiding Baelish's intent. He's shown as smart sure, but his ambition is well hidden. He's only real political rival is Varys who is shown in the books as untrustworthy from the getgo by being a foreigner, obtusely withholding information and secrets, and being a weird eunuch. The TV show however, decided to have Petyr being a mustache twirler from the start because "TV watchers are dumber than book readers" or because TV is much more limited on time and pacing.
I think it's the typical GRRM setup. "I can trust him because he's my wife's childhood friend" when it's actually the exact reason he shouldn't have trusted him. The whole thing falls apart when you think about how Ned should've known about LF's duel with Brandon and how stubborn LF was despite having zero odds of winning.
He did know about the duel and LF brings it up a few times too. Cat had nothing to do with his trust of Peter.
I saw the show first and didnt trust anyone, but I didn't trust Varys the most and LF the least. Unironically him being an open mustache twirler makes him seem more authentic than the rest who are hiding their intentions. At least with Peter you know what youre getting. From Neds/audience perspective he has a lot more to gain by not double crossing him.
Joffrey would not listen to some cuck like Littlefinger
It's actually dumber than that. There's a scene in the book where Ned can just tell Robert directly that his kids aren't his kids, but he doesn't because uhhhhhhhhhhhhh reasons, and instead tells Cersei he knows, which effectively signs his own death warrant. People attempt to gloss this over for GRRM by saying Ned didn't want the kids to be killed, but that excuse gets pissed away the moment he tells Stannis about it too.
He tells Cersei to give her the chance to escape Westeros with her children. After seeing the sack of King's Landing at her father's hands, Ned is very sensitive to dead children. It's why he resigns the Handship as well, because Robert sanctions the assassination plot to kill pregnant Daenerys. It's not a plot hole, it's just in character for Ned.
Ned's loyalty to Rob is why he doesn't tell him. He has such conviction and aversion to slighting the king he avoids it. It's stupid of him to tell Cersei, but it was easier, cause he doesn't respect her.
didnt littlefinger give the assassin the valyrian blade to kill Bran in Season 1? The valyrian blade was chosen to make it look like Joffrey did it, but Cat thought it was the lecherous Imp Tyrion?
You're right. I don't know where these fan theories are coming from ITT.
Back when actions in GOT had consequences.
Show Rob marrying some dumb bitch from Essos was bad writing though. Book Rob did it because he took a woman's virginity in a moment of weakness and then gilt married her due to his sense of Nothern honor, and because of what a cunt his mother was to his bastard brother.
>because of what a cunt his mother was to his bastard brother.
this was the majority of the reason. Also remember Robb is only 16 when he dies, so its not like he had a ton of wisdom to listen to really, especially with people plotting like Roose and Theon betraying him.
People blame Little Finger or Varys for most of what happens in the series. But in the books it's Kat who's to blame for like 80% of the shit. Literally the only thing she did that was right was telling Rob not to send Theon back to the Iron Islands.
Telling her sister not to let Tyrion do the trial was correct too but obviously she failed this also.
She absolutely is, but she's also a mother who had lived a fairly comfortable life with honest people for decades, thrust with multiple family tragedies and then trying to be a mother for a 16 King who was basically forced the position.
Theon being sent to the Iron Islands is 100% one of the worst decisions. It led to the fall of Winterfell, the perceived deaths of the Stark boys, and a friend for Robb who could have given him better consultation. Only Kat knew how much of a nagger the iron islands were
What does it feel like to take a woman's virginity bros?
Depends. Mostly it just feel the same as having sex with any girl. Except they usually bleed, Ive only had it happen once where my sheets were covered jn blood, usually its just some on your dick. And a lot of the time they tell you to slow down. I guess find a girl who is tight and on her period.
t. taken like 5 girls' virginity
Wtf where do you live?
animeworld
Like salty coins and milk
mildly frustrating.
The correct answer
Like you're planting a flag in unclaimed territory.
Bag of sand
I've taken six virginities and none of them bled because they all had fucked themselves with a hairbrush handle or something similar before me
Only one of them was exceptionally tight
Rob's TV romance was way better than his book romance. Made more sense from a personal level for him to tempt fate instead of being a fucktard who got honeytrapped by a Lanister floozy.
it's better in the sense that it's not all off-screen because he's not a POV, but not in any other way really
>Show Rob marrying some dumb bitch from Essos was bad writing though
How?
>due to his sense of Nothern honor
That honor came from Ned who got it from Jon Arryn. The South is the one with knights and the Faith and stuff. Northerners don't care about shit. They're halfway to being wildlings. Large portions of the North are indistinguishable from wildlings: the mountainfolk and Skagosi. Ned's older brother was a real Stark, he was a wild animal, more depraved than Robert.
The Dothraki couldn't take Westeros without dragons and Watchmen should've taught you what happens when two warring sides are interrupted by a foreign third party.
We're talking about the TV show.
>Show Rob marrying some dumb bitch from Essos was bad writing though. Book Rob did it because he took a woman's virginity
both are stupid, he should have been killed simply because some of his supporters relised that he was broke and decided to jump ship
would have been much grimdarker too
>both are stupid
In the book it's strongly implied that Sybell Spicer made a love potion for him and the daughter or something and they were working undercover all the time. The retarded part is Robb storming their castle and then his men giving anyone from their castle, even their maester, free leave to treat Robb unattended. I mean, they were worried he would die of his wounds and they just let the lord's daughter treat him by herself?
yeah the 1st three books are pretty much a series of bad decisions and the very worst outcomes possible of a series of situations. the pages are a slog to read but that fatass writes some entertaining characters and plots.
The slog was mostly the parts describing every meal in detail. Felt like there was atleast 1 every chapter.
No, ALL the novels boil down to "all the villains get plot armour and positive Deus ex Machina; all the good guys get the most negative possible outcomes."
Anyone who actually thinks that isn't seeing the trajectory the story is taking. The bad guys won, but now its all collapsing around them. Cersei is barely holding onto power by her fingertips, The Boltons are either going to lose to Stannis or, if they beat Stannis, a newly revived Jon. Littlefinger is going to die at Sansa's hands. Euron is going to be killed (after a brutal struggle) by Dany after she manipulates Victarion to her side, and Bran is going to return from the North to help kill the Others.
Just because GRRM didnt shy away from the brutality or gave his heroes an out from their own mistakes doesn't mean he's going to end with 'and then evil won'. The final book is called a dream of spring for fucks sake. As in the season of rebirth and hope.
None of what you described here will happen because you will never get another book to describe it. The only canon continuation will be the show.
The bad guys are the ones with resources and the ones who have survived countless challenges up to now while the good guys are chumps who got lucky but luck runs out.
Epic Dany heelturn foreshadowing
lol @ all these Stark apologists
You're as bad as GRRM and D&D
>>Robb, after pushing Tywin and Jaime's shit in, has a chance to continue winning but chooses to marry some random whore who takes his fancy against the advice of his mother and advisors because he wants to feel like a big man making big kingly decisions
Robb was winning most of the battles, but his forces were stretched thin. His supply lines were also stretched to their limits coming all the way from the North.
He didn't have enough soldiers to take King's Landing. Even taking Casterly Rock was a big stretch. Rob thought if he somehow took Casterly Rock, it would force the Lannisters to surrender or negotiate for terms of allowing the North to be an independent Kingdom. Tywin would never agree to that, and would rather see Casterly Rock burn to the ground than agree to those terms.
Worse off, Robb thought he could raid the vaults at Casterly Rock to pay for more soldiers, other supplies, and their debts. But the vaults had been empty for a long time since their gold mines ran dry. The Lannisters had been taking on debts to pay the large army. No one knew the Lannisters were broke because Tywin kept up their public image, and was generally a good governor. Taxes kept the Lannisters from falling apart.
But it was only a matter of time until the Lannisters ran out of money, or the Bank of Barbados gave them a loan.
>Worse off, Robb thought he could raid the vaults at Casterly Rock to pay for more soldiers, other supplies, and their debts. But the vaults had been empty for a long time since their gold mines ran dry. The Lannisters had been taking on debts to pay the large army. No one knew the Lannisters were broke because Tywin kept up their public image, and was generally a good governor. Taxes kept the Lannisters from falling apart.
>
>But it was only a matter of time until the Lannisters ran out of money, or the Bank of Barbados gave them a loan.
this is entirely an invention from the show. Kevan mentions after becoming the lord of Casterly Rock that he was tempted to pay off the entirety of the Iron Thrones debt
Aye. the show actually ruined and dumbed down quite a bit of the strategy even in the earlier seasons.
For example, in the books, Robb divides up half of his army and sends one after Tywin under Roose bolton, because if Robb attacked Jaime with his full force, Tywin would have enough time to reinforce Jaime. However, in the show, Robb somehow manages to convince 2000 Northerners to march to their death.
Also, the plan to take Casterly Rock is beyond stupid. Casterly Rock is pretty much impregnable, and they would have easily been destroyed by a Tyrell-Lannister relief force. In the books, he wanted to reclaim the North from the Ironborn, which had a good chance of succeding because a lot of the ironborn left after the death of Balon Greyjoy.
>Robb somehow manages to convince 2000 Northerners to march to their death.
Didn't that happen a lot IRL though? Like Hannibal making his centre weak so the Romans would push through into his encirclement.
You don't know you're the intentional weak point in a battle, unless you're clever enough to notice it like Tyrion. Robb sends 2,000 men against 20,000 while he marches on Jaime with "his other 18,000 men"
The idea of raiding the Westerlands even if he cannot siege the Rock is probably beyond the average television viewer. Especially when Winterfell gets taken by 30 guys.
Also, can we reflect on how they constantly make Tywin look like some sort of genius when he was going to blunder right into Robb's obvious trap due to him attacking his greatest weakness, his pride.
The North probably doesn't have much resources. Wouldn't the bulk of his supplies come from the Riverlands. Even with the raiding, seems like they'd probably have more than the Norf.
Even if the Riverland supporting them with supplies too, it seems to be clear that Robb's army is still stretched to max. He was trying to bait Tywin to meet him out on the battlefield. But Tywin wasn't falling for it, and wanted Robb to come and siege him while he was dug into a defensive position. Tywin wanted to bleed Robb's forces dry.
For all his faults, he was likely the best general in Westeros from a purely military perspective. He would likely have anticipated Tywin's intent. He was, however, running out of time, so a lengthy siege wasn't very practical anyway.
The real problem were the ironaggers, who for some bizarre reason chose to raid the dirt poor north rather than the westerlands.
Balon was King of The Iron Islands during his rebellion and hated the North for helping the Iron Throne win the war. The Iron naggers had burned down the Lannister fleet and sacked their most important ports while reaving the Reach, River lands and Crown lands. Balon being a typical seething Iron nagger wanted revenge in his perceived blood feud where his son was turned into a Greenlander sissy.
>He was trying to bait Tywin to meet him out on the battlefield. But Tywin wasn't falling for it
Robb successfully baits Tywin, but Tywin is stopped at the Red Ford by Edmure because Robb failed to tell his most important and most powerful bannerman what his plan was. Tywin was delayed long enough to receive word of Stannis' attack on KL and turn around to link up with the newly allied Reach army.
Tywin would have negotiated if Kat hadn't been retarded enough to let Jaime go. Losing his seat and his heir would have been too great a loss of power and prestige.
I think Kat actually believed in the Kings Guard for life bit, and thought he wasn't perceived as an eligible heir. But yes she was retarded, but so were the Northmen trying to execute Jaimie so there was a no win situation.
Was this after finding out that
>Jamie killed the king he was sworn to protect
>and ignored his vows of chastity to knock up his sister who was married to the king
>Joffery relieved Barriston Selmy of his duty
>The gold mines ran dry.
That's a show-only thing, anon. In the novels the mines are fully operational, and the Lannisters are obscenely rich.
Robb wanted to hit Casterly rock the other nobles would see that Tywin is vulnerable and able to be hot hard, this gaining more allies. Y'know the whole shadow on the wall thing? It would destroy that. Discovering the Lannisters are broke would only further tarnish their image.
Again, this notion that the Lannisters were really broke was show only, cooked up by D&D. Just some more bullshit they decided was somehow better than what GRRM wrote.
Well we're talking about the show right? Once bookfags stop seething about every difference in the show and view it as two separate things we will all be a lot happier. But yeah Tywins shadow becomes a lot smaller regardless, if they're still rich then now Robb has resources as well.
The mines are likely a metaphor for the interests on the loans. In which case, it should impossible for them to run out. And it should in fact be an occasional occurence for Lannisters to forgive debt. Sometimes.
>But the vaults had been empty for a long time since their gold mines ran dry.
That was thrown into the series for who knows what reason, in the books only the mines directly below casterly rock are dry but they talk of several others mining gold and silver in the surrounding hills
>executing a traitor to the crown is... le bad
Joffrey did nothing wrong.
Joffrey Lanister wasn't even crowned yet. And Ned was executing the will of the King who gave him his last orders. Not to mention was a still Hand.
>Ned was executing the will of the King who gave him his last orders
he literally wasn't
He was. Ned had a paper signed by Robert and Cersei decided to ignore it.
Either way, executing Ned was a terrible idea that leaded to war. Robb did something similar and lost one of their vassal houses. But Robb did it for being a moron, Joffrey did it because he was a sadistic homosexual.
homie said literally. Robert's last orders were for ned to rule in place of joff until he was ready. Ned wrote down like "rightful heir" because he knew joff was a bastard and wanted to supplant him with a legit issue.
If Joff was the rightful heir then there shouldn't be a problem.
He wasn't though and ned knew that.
No, he was gonna call out cersei in front of everyone and have the gold cloaks arrest her. But little finger paid them to betray her instead. He purposefully wrote it so joff wasnt specifically named so he could put stannis on the throne. Damn man, it's been years since I saw this shit and I still remember.
>But little finger paid them to betray her instead.
Meant him.
He was still going to follow his orders until he could get more information. Nothing indicated otherwise. IICR, he was going to call Stannis to support the accusation. With that, he had the support of his men.
>Nothing indicated otherwise.
Except for when little finger told him he should do that and ned said he wasn't.
Doesn't matter.
had he kept him alive. he would still be alive. being nobility makes executing a traitor an untenable position. especially someone like Ned Stark who was revered by his lordlings.
Right or wrong, treason is punishable by death in EVERY country in the history of time, ya homosexual.
>Treason against uncrowned illegitimate incest gremlin
No way Robb takes Casterly Rock, it's good that he died at the Red Wedding before he broke his record.
Everyone dies in GoT except for a handful of side characters, it's only a "warning" against living in the middle ages.
STANNIS
I'm a giant Stannisfag but not even I want him to be king.
I want him to go out like a fucking badass, securing the throne for his daughter with Uncle Davos as her hand, because I think she could be a better ruler than her father.
I love the Mannis, he is way too much of a stubborn, blunt cunt to hold the throne for long.
Stannis himself doesn't want to be king either. He IS the king.
joffrey is so sexy hot. i want to sex him. and tommen. and tommen's irl cousin who fapped with him on video.
Cersei likes to act like there's a special connection between her and Jaime because they're twins. But considering she was sleeping with Lancel as well, I'm pretty sure she just has an incest kink.
cersei is a gigaslut
she sleeps with random men, related men, women
almost surprising she doesn't fuck any animals
Cersei sleeps with Jaime precisely because they're similar in looks, or at least were when children - it fuels her narcissism.
She sleeps with almost anyone, even Moonboy for all I know, because she's a massive whore.
People can feel genuine special connections with others while still being unfaithful whores. We are not a species thats inherently monogamous, many conflicting emotions are always at play.
she fucked jaime because they looked so much alike and in a way she was fucking the male version of herself. the reason she fucked lancel is because jaime was taken prisoner and lancel was the closest looking to him.
Nigga, it's literally fiction.
When are D&D going to release the "all 10,000 men and their horses" cut?
I miss this lil' nigga like you wouldn't believe
He should have won.
If only he was more fire resistant
Take the black what?
I found myself wondering how Joffery would have dealt with the Sparrows.
The Sparrows wouldn't even be a thing. Even if they grew in number Joff would never let Cersei militarize and legitimize them.
They were both children so its to be expected.
I like Varys and Petyr's talk in S1E10
Petyr: Did they take the stick with the berries?
Varys: Fag.
I imagine a gash, like a woman's.
Fag.
You are powerful, though, Master Varys.
Fag.
The real question is - why Varys DIDN'T want a war? His initial plan is actually simple:
1. Brew a civil war in Westeros to weaken the Seven Kingdoms.
2. Unleash the mad prince Viserys and a Dothraki horde unto the continent.
3. Then allow the glorious return of "Aegon" as a liberating hero, consolidating him as a legitimate and beloved ruler.
In this scenario, there was no reason not to want a war with between the Crown and the North... unless he merely wanted to neutralise the North by having Ned take the black, and then sway him towards "Aegon's" side, and thus have an ironclad ally. But that's a stretch.
Varys knew his plan wasnt ready. The civil war came too soon, so he tried to control it as best he can by trying to protect the people he saw as working 'for the good of the realm'. Ned taking the black would have kept the North in a perfect state of quiet, bitter rage until Aegon returned. When that failed he worked with Tyrion because Tyrion was the only one trying to keep KL together with Stannis bearing down on them.
Another thing that Cat fucked up. He thought he had Littlefinger on his side, and with LF the goldcloaks.And we all know how that ended..
Never, ever listen to a fucking Tully. They ruin everything.
Even then, everything goes to shit exclusively because Catelyn has the impulse control of...a stupid woman. She could have told Tyrion that she would be going to KL with him and would force him before the king and bring everything up in court.
Or just ride with him back.
OR JUST IGNORE HIM and let Ned arrest him. Then the war starts with the North ready and the Riverlands ready....instead of what happened.
True, if she hadn't captured Tyrion, Jaime wouldn't have attacked Ned, and Robert wouldn't have gone on his boar hunt either.
Saying that, though, it was still incredibly important that it all went exactly as it did, because if it hadn't, Arya doesn't end up becoming a giganinja and Westeros gets its shit pushed in by The Night King.
You've said this twice now.
Explain yourself
Anon doesn't like characters developing naturally in front front of him if the end result isn't something he read in his favorite fanfic.
Where else were they going to get a faceless man who cared about the struggles of The North in Westeros enough to risk their life in an attack on The Night King?
Without Arya's training, The Night King doesn't get stopped at Winterfell, he continues south continuously gaining new troops and drives his icy rod deep into the bowels of Westeros.
There is no reason to assume a Faceless Man is needed to kill the Night King. Really all you need is Valyrian steel. Even if you're going show-only, Arya washed-out of FM basic training and her abilities are completely unearned.
Jon is the obvious choice. The Jamie Azor Ahai pasta would be even better, but I can't find it right now.
Jon should have gotten the kill on the Night King. Otherwise, wtf did revealing his true parentage do? It ended up meaning fuck all. D&D had to have a girl boss moment
>Jon should have gotten the kill on the Night King. Otherwise, wtf did revealing his true parentage do
How are the two connected?
>D&D had to have a girl boss moment
It literally is something the characters has been preparing for during the majority of the show since the first season. Also most people wanted to see Jon fight the NK, if the plan was to pander they would've just dangled the keys in front of you that way.
>How are the two connected?
I know you're just being disingenous, but, you know, the whole the prince that was promised thing? How about that?
>if the plan was to pander
D&D are famous for their hardcore stance against pandering, as seen in Cleganebowl
>the whole the prince that was promised thing? How about that?
Only watched the show so I genuinely don't know. I know bookfags say NK isn't in the book though so again how are the two connected?
>D&D are famous for their hardcore stance against pandering, as seen in Cleganebowl
Right so if they wanted to pander why not just give the fight that the majority of the audience wanted. I'm pretty sure more people wanted that than the Cleganebow.
>I know bookfags say NK isn't in the book
"Night King" isn't in the book, but "Night's King" is.
>Right so if they wanted to pander why not just give the fight that the majority of the audience wanted. I'm pretty sure more people wanted that than the Cleganebow.
Because Cleganebowl was pure pandering. It didn't need to happen, it had no affect on the plot and no real in-universe payoffs. It was all popular demand. People memed it into existence.
>Night King" isn't in the book, but "Night's King" is
Ok, how is it inherently connected to Jon's lineage?
>and no real in-universe payoffs
Gives the hound a great payoff, what are you on about? That combined with him preventing Arya to be like him is great. But again if the point was just to pander there's way more people that were calling for Jon vs NK than the Cleganebowl.
The Night's King was a Stark Lord Commander of the Night's Watch from a long time ago. He fell in love with a female White Walker and banged her. Forget if they married and/or had kids.
So there's that.
How the fuck does that answer the question in any way lmao. I don't think you're the same anon but the one I was responding to was acting like there's no point in revealing Jon's lineage if he doesn't kill the NK.
>"Don't be like me Arya, don't become consumed with revenge!"
>*becomes consumed with revenge and literally jumps into a fire*
Talk about not practicing what you preach, I don't know what's more laughable, this writing or your defence of it.
Thats...the point anon. The Hound was consumed with malice and revenge his whole life and he knew he was too far gone to stop. It's why his ending while satisfying is still tragic where he at least gets to take the person who cursed him to hell along with him. He's not standing on some moral highground if you knew his dynamic with Arya youd know that they're both aware he's a miserable cunt. He's warning her that she's going to end up that way too and stops her. It's very basic stuff here anon.
>if the plan was to pander
It was the plan. They pandered to whatever would make tits bounce in the Burlington Bar.
Based coomers but those tits were going to bounce even harder and for longer if John fought the NK.
They weren’t preparing for shit. They literally say in the after show segment that they decided to give the kill to Arya when they wrote the season.
I remember after they had Arya kill the Night King they made it seem like she was also going to kill Cersei immediately after. They gave her character way too much to do in the end and it was definitely fan service.
I like to think that in the book canon, Arya is or will be killed by the waif who will return to Westeros wearing her face and will get to kill a significant target of Arya's but it wont really be her. I know that this wont be the case though because GRRM has some creepy pedo infatuation with Arya and initially drafted for her to be the love interest of every male character
Her training and her list is basically her only character. Pretty thin but to the shows credit both get pretty satisfying arcs and end in ways nobody was expecting. And if it doesn't end the way it does then it pretty much makes all her scenes skipable and pointless.
Her training and list were pointless though and totally disconnected from her ending. The "pay off" for Arya was the Walder Frey assassination and then they just entirely abandoned her assassin plot line and had her revert to S1 Arya, loyal to her family. There was NOTHING building up to Arya killing the Night King, I don't buy that they intended for Arya to do that back when they wrote her scene with Melisandre talking about closing eyes forever.
Maybe it will work in the books if they take some weird left-field path where Jon becomes the Night King and Arya actually continues with her training, then it's really corny but there is some kind of connection and drama they could make
In Arya's last chapter in ADWD she finally gets her sight back at the very end. Her training will continue properly.
She doesn't have a slay moment declaring herself Arya Stark and not no-one and is allowed to fuck off back to Westeros having insulted the Faceless Men.
Oath-breaking just isn't a big deal in the last few seasons.
She's just an uninteresting character and her arc doesn't seem to be doing anything other than giving a Bravos perspective.
Show Arya definitely takes the place of Lady Stoneheart (killing the Freys and likely LF), most of her list other than the D-list characters like Polliver and Meryn Trant are already dead or wont be killed by her so I don't think "the list" is the final crux of her character.
So what will be her purpose? Probably interfering with the Iron Bank's aid during Cersei's eventually reign, killing her by proxy. Meh
Even in the show, they didn't have any purpose for Arya in the conclusion so they just had her get on a boat and fuck off which is the second unearned major deviation of her character, she's neither a cool assassin or a member of the family, they could have just made her go with Jon or something
She didn't need to be a master assassin to kill Walder Frey though, she probably could've even done that just with her skills before training with the faceless men. That's part of her arc with list, which is more central to her character and ultimately gets paid off in a more fulfilling way when she chooses not to kill Cersei. The only time she uses her anime powers in a way where it's completely necessary is when she survives the initial wave of the dead and kills the NK. There's no way John gets a 1v1 and Danys dragon fire didn't work, it's a sneak attack or nothing. I think you guys are two blinded by wokeshit and some bitches at a bar to see this as reality.
>ultimately gets paid off in a more fulfilling way when she chooses not to kill Cersei
She literally goes on to add THE NIGHT KING to her list and then goes back to assassinate Cersei after this though. Her character arc doesn't make any fucking sense, it's indefensibly messy.
A 1v1 between Jon and the NK is likely as there seems to be some connection and Jon has been spared multiple times leading up to that point. I don't like the idea of Jon being this 2D super hero in the end and I really don't even like the white walker part of the series. Even if it had to be Arya which I'm not sure will be the case.
It could be something like a character heavily anticipated to be Azor Ahai suffers a shock death but then Arya in another twist unintentionally fulfills the prophecy by wearing the face of that character to get close access to NK
>She literally goes on to add THE NIGHT KING to her list
No she doesn't
>Her character arc doesn't make any fucking sense, it's indefensibly messy.
Not at all, it's actually the most thin and easily trackable one in the show. After she arrives back to Westoros she heads back home and kills Walder Frey along the way, fights in the long night, and then heads north to kill cersei. What's the part that's confusing you here?
>A 1v1 between Jon and the NK is likely as there seems to be some connection and Jon has been spared multiple times leading up to that point
Yeah because they have a le epic staredown once after Hardhome that scares him so much it leads to the NK breaching the walls due to his action. Theres no doubt they were teeing up a fight between the two but what makes you think there's any situation where he gets a 1v1? If it's not him raising the dead around Jon it's him sicking the WW on him. It's a legitimate subversion of expectations that makes perfect sense.
>It could be something like a character heavily anticipated to be Azor Ahai
You bookfags need to remember that this prophecy isn't mentioned in the show before you get mad they didn't go with your fanfic.
Bookfags AKA people who actually know what they're talking about. Go fuck your father's wife.
Spot on.
putting the source material aside, you're missing the point that Arya's retarded, unearned events of the final season also abruptly undo the character development of several other main characters. Forget the books, they aren't even consistent with their own deviations.
I wonder what your explanation of Arya getting on a boat and sailing East is?
West*
Mandatory.
>prophecy isn't mentioned in the show
Melisandre talks about a promised prince not sure about Azor Ahai but I feel like it was in the show
Well they weren't the ones who made up Aryas whole are so that makes sense. Regardless it's still something Arya was the most prepared to do and her training is an essential part of her character. It unironically makes more sense that she kills the NK over Jon any way you slice it. Or maybe they should've had Jaime do it and scream I am the kingslayer before bursting into flames confirming a prophecy never before mentioned with all of the night kings soldiers just watching like in that one fanfic.
If by Faceless Men training you mean learning how to do one knife trick I'm sure they can teach you those down at the Flea Bottom. Carl Tanner could probably kill TV Night King if the right weapon was given to him.
war is unpredictable, it's easier to manipulate people in a more stable political environment
>Marry some random whore.
The "Song of Ice and Fire" mobile app, which is written by GRRM's assistants and is canon, heavily suggests he was drugged with a love potion - remember that his "mother in law" was the daughter (or grand daughter, can't remember) of Maggie the Frog.
>is canon
No it isn't
the whole point is that feudalism and monarchy is fucking retarded. That nobody should be a leader because of their birth, and children should not be running a country.
The idea of it makes sense, at least. Preferring a bloodline you seem as special to make decisions over some power hungry politician with inflated ego. Taking a young man who's family is known for greatness and putting him in charge when his elders pass does too. Idea being that theyve been molding him for that role since he was born.
except that's just a fantasy, real life doesn't work out that way. Being "molded for that role since they were born" is a rather euphemistic way of saying you're handing unlimited power to the most privileged person in the entire country, whether they're actually going to responsibly use it or not. When you have a system of government where the entire nation is inheritable property like a house or a farm animal, then that's how it will be treated. A nation is far too important to be used that way.
I know I agree, I just also understand it in theory. When taken in good faith I'd prefer a young king in a special bloodline rather than the best politician. Taken in bad faith it's still not even much worse, just like a flip of the coin. Rather the best politician 9/10 only becoming the best because of their insatiable just for power and control. The entitled young man is unlikely to have these impulses provided he's been the heir since birth, it's just down to how much he respects the position.
If Catelyn just let Brandon kill Petyr in their duel, the series never would have happened.
Melisandre is pretty sexy, but Shae is the sexiest after Doreah.
Can’t stand that stupid cunt’s accent. Shae da fonny har.
Yeah and it's not only her accent, it's like the 'actress' doesn't know how to read lines or project her voice, so she just sounds very amateurish.
Pretty sure she was a porn star in Germany before she let D&D sandwich her for the GoT job.
Yeah I've seen her porn, wasn't impressed tbh. There's evidence that she fucked GRRM for the role.
She was hot but not a standout, I mean look at Ros or the mummer Cersei.
Ros had to be the best one out of the entire show. Beautiful face, perfect body, and those tits.
Agree, shes easily a 9+/10.
Mood: Horny
>ITT: Gigabrainlets totally unaware of who's really in charge in Westeros
It's me. I'm in charge of Westeros. (and Easteros)
finish the book you fat lazy fuck
>Easteros
Is Essos west of westeros? Is Arya a flat earther?
In the books it's pretty much implied Euron circumnavigated the world which is how he is able to travel so fast from Essos to Iron Islands
Most likely a Littlefinger plot given that LF is the mastermind of virtually every event in Westeros. The biggest failure of the TV series was to abandon the LF/Varys rivalry which, despite being more cartoonish and transparent, was the primary driving force of the show until their random character assassination and then underwhelming deaths.
I do wonder where they land in the books. It's obvious that LF wont just randomly pawn off the real Sansa to Ramsay, him marrying a fake Stark is enough to agitate and make enemies of the crown. Everyone fights eachother whilst he and the real Sansa stand by with a massive army.
Varys connection with the Targs also seems a lot more interesting than him just being a really nice guy that wants stability.
Obviously, they have to die but it should be saved until the very end
Yeah rewatching S1 now and a lot of those little details got dropped as Dabbid*2 figured out what housewives actually wanted to watch
LF and Varys talking were some of the best scenes in early GoT.
They were such catty homosexuals, but instead of arguing over who got the dick up the ass this time, they were being petty bitches over the fate of a nation. It was fantastic.
It is funny, bookfags seethed about the LF/Varys monologue scenes but in retrospect, the series really needed that to continue
I think the actor for Varys recently revealed how angry he was that they abandoned that relationship
I'm normally pro books, anti show, but I really did like listening to those two bitch at each other.
Probably the best decision the Dtards made.
it was before aiden gillen started using his "gruff" voice too, which was always so off putting.
>but chooses to marry some random whore who takes his fancy against the advice of his mother and advisors because he wants to feel like a big man making big kingly decisions
i don't remember if this was handled in the show, but in the books it's made clear that he did this for precisely the opposite reason. he had grown up seeing his mother seethe over Jon and absorbed his father's notions of honour, so when he accidentally got Jeyne pregnant he decided he was obligated to marry her as he did not want to bring a bastard into the world. he died because he tried to "do the right thing", the exact opposite of what you're saying
>him marrying a fake Stark is enough to agitate and make enemies of the crown
what? LF procuring Jeyne Poole and pawning her off as Arya was done with the complete knowledge and approval of the crown and the Boltons, it was a ploy to secure the Boltons support in the North
>chuds figuring out their favorite show was a critique of toxic masculinity all along
>write just one sentence without using stock phrases of internet jargon (impossible challenge mode)
>Joffrey has a chance to stop the war with The North before it really starts by letting Ned take the black
You really think the North would just be okay with their Liege Lord (king uf da norf) getting beheaded by some little shit the barely swear allegiance to? Ned's dad and brother were burned alive by the Mad King and he said "naw fuck this, I'm going to war alongside Bobby B to overthrow the Throne".
You really think the Northsmen would just allow Ned to take the Black? They'd rally up and do Bobby B's Rebellion 2.0.
There was no chance for peace in this situation. The norfs were riding south regardless. He was just a little shit is all.
But big brain take: Joff would have made a good king. Change my mind.
>You really think the Northsmen would just allow Ned to take the Black?
Yes, because he is stupid enough to actually commit to it. Getting Ned off the Wall would be about as easy as getting him to tell you about the Tower of Joy.
It's even about Ned at that point. The Northsman still see themselves as independent even though they are part of the Seven Kingdoms and pay taxes and all that. They're just itching for a reason to rise up and break free. Doing anything to the norf's king would send up a shitwhirl.
>Ned actually takes the black and the show is now primarily focused on creating peace (read: going to war) with the wildlings and stopping the white walkers.
Would be kino
more to the point Ned would never agree to it, his tragic character trait is being 'onourable without regard for the consequences.
the ass was fat tho.
The show cultivating theater trained experienced actors only to kill them off to be replaced with young hot but unskilled actors certainly contributed to its decline, though dedicating to child actors and hoping they get better as they grow up is also quite a gamble.
If you think that's a fat ass, I don't know what to tell you.
it's a meme, you dip
Fatness isn't just about pure mass, there's a shapeliness and artistry to how the lady holds their posture. Hence a petite woman can have a fat ass.
Agreed. As much as I hated her character, Oona Chaplin (Talisa Stark) had the best ass, by far.
Yeah turns out young men don't make good kings, especially when they don't trust their advisors.
I’m like 400 pages into Fire and Blood. Is the new show worth watching?
Hotd is kino yes
Yeah it is. But I am still disappointed that they didn't defenestrate Beesbury onto roof spikes, as described by our trustworthy Mushroom historian.
If you're a white, female, office worker it's probably right up your alley
>They were both really bad at being kings
Woah no shit, next you're gonna say that Ramsay was kinda evil.
I could talk about possible Wot5k scenarios for hours bros, it's so kino
So it's pretty much confirmed that The Lord of Light is the true god, right?
All the weirwood trees seem capable of doing is being used as a palantir for Bran. The seven do literally nothing. But The Lord of Light brings Beric back a bunch of times, the Asor Ahai prophecy ends up being true, resurrected Beric can just magic fire on his sword. He's the only god that actually seems capable of doing stuff.
No proof that he's actually a god rather than the "prayers" to him just being spells
Fire magic might just be some natural force and the fire religion stuff is just shit people made up around it.
The effectiveness of fire magic seems to be directly correlated to the (re)appearance of dragons, which in turn seem to have first appeared in Great Empire of the Dawn. Daenerys also has visions of the Gemstone Emperors of that long lost empire. The Azor Ahai myth also seems to originate from that time period.
So the R'hllor worshippers have based their religion on real powers, but the many eons have distorted the true origins of those forces and they have added shit around it that might be completely false.
This is kind of true for most of the religions in ASOIAF. The Old Gods are actually the hivemind living in the Weirwood network. That hivemind might actually be the closest thing to a real god in the story.
The Drowned God cult is related to real lovecraftian beings of immense power that were around in the world long ago and left behind ruins and relics of oily black stone.
Only the Faith of the Seven seems to be entirely made up, as a form of population control, with no real basis in actually existing magical forces.
>Faith of the Seven
>Made up.
Tell it to the Faceless Men.
they don't worship the seven. they worship the god of death. who is not the stranger in the faith of the seven
All the gods except the seven are legit
the old gods and the weirwoods are some kind of weird archaic telepathic network that requires blood sacrifices. which seems to always be the price of magic in the books.
>which seems to always be the price of magic in the books.
Unless it's magic done in R'hllor's name, in which case sometimes you can just pray.
not true. Berric had to sacrifice his life in order for caitlyn to be resurrected as lady stoneheart. and while its not explicitly explained it can be assumed that melisandre used the unborn child of stannis inside to be used to create the shadow demon that killed renly. Plus melisandre a red priestess herself says that a sacrifice is required. which is why she wanted to kill Edric Storm to wake the Stone Dragon
>melisandre used the unborn child of stannis inside to be used to create the shadow demon that killed renly
I think she also used some (a lot, actually) of Stannis's own life force or whatever, hence why she tells Davos that if he really wants to help his lord he needs to dick her down
There's no gods in the sense that it's a a singular or group of divine rulers acting out their will. But there is magical shit that happens which people perceive and worship like gods.
So just like real life.
>ignored his mother's and Varys's advice because he wants to feel like a big man making big kingly decisions
That and because felt they lacked respect and loyalty to the crown like he said in conversation with his mother prior to King Robbs death. He viewed the Starks as enemies and wasn't exactly trying to avoid war.
>against the advice of his mother and advisors because he wants to feel like a big man making big kingly decisions
Robb didn't push Tywins shit in they lost the battle against him because it was used as a diversion to capture Jaime as hostage. He couldn't pursue further because he lacked the manpower and resources to contend with the Lannister forces straight up, especially after losing a chunk after killing that Karstark bastard.
>They were both really bad at being kings
Robb didn't do anything wrong, he made mistakes and learned from them like any young king would do while also leading a war effort. Marrying the girl he loves isn't some huge life altering mistake in most cases. It's not good but what the Freys did in retaliation is considered much worse. Even afterwards the ones who were supposedly aligned with them didnt show any respect.
>GoT overall is a warning against ego and hubris.
Every King without it in books gets BTFO too. The goal is to trust your advisors and know when it's time to make your own moves.
Snubbing the Freys by marrying some noname girl meant robbing the Freys and the Boltons (Roose married Fat Walda) of dynastic ties to the Starks, who were now royalty and not just the biggest house in da norf. It severely undermined their prestige and future prospects, and essentially boiled down to spitting them both in the face. Kat tells him time and again she didn't love Ned at first, he was nothing compared to the ultrachad older brother Kat was supposed to marry. Love has nothing to do with dynastic marriages.
Yeah and lords get slighted a lot, it's not some unforgivable thing. Killing a family of nobles at a wedding is though.
The breakdown of the alliance and the betrayal is the point, the Red Wedding is just how they chose to go about it. Robb's talent for alienating allies had already been demonstrated by that point.
Yeah and my point is that in war you will often lose and gain allies without something as unforgivable as the red wedding happening. That's an extreme abnormality that you can't blame Robb for.
Why are got threads on Cinemaphile always such kino
I just got to the point where unkillable, magic killing machine (who has somehow been captured when he meets her) Jaqen H'ghar gives Arya three free kills.
The only excuse is that she's just a child and thus reacts to her fee-fees rather than logic, but she chooses the nobody torturer The Tickler, instead of Westeros' greatest military commander who just happens to be next door and is actively at war with her brother, Tywin Lannister.
Then she picks some no-name dork 'cause he raped a 12-year-old instead of Gregor who was also at Harrenhal.
If you really think about it, logically, Arya pretty much got Robb killed. None of Robb's banners would have turned on him if Kevan was leading the Lannister forces.
Bro she can't be smart she must be a girlboss shadow assassin.
She is a dumb kid at that point.
>who has somehow been captured when he meets her
That was most definitely part of his plan. He might have just been there in order to recruit her actually.
>That was most definitely part of his plan. He might have just been there in order to recruit her actually.
I like the theory that he was in the Black Cells because he was hired to kill Ned on the way up to Castle Black by LF using the crown treasury. LF mentions during a small council meeting he knows how much the Faceless Men cost, and given what we know of them he wouldn't be in the Black Cells unless he wanted to be. Then he meets this child who is obsessed with death, the child of his failed target, and maybe he thought it was a sign from the god of Death or whatever so thought he was obligated to recruit her.
Him being hired to kill Ned is not a bad theory.
But I think they wanted to recruit Aria because she is a skin changer / telepath.
You're working under the presumption that Arya cares about Robb's war or even Robb himself.
It's been a while, but didn't Jack explicitly tell Arya he wouldn't do any high profile killings (specifically Tywin) for her? Also, like Bane, getting caught was part of his plan.
Maybe in the books, I can't remember, but there's no such limit in the show.
nothing like this happens in the books, in fact he says the exact opposite: say a name, any a name, and they will die (it might take time, depending on the name, but they WILL die)
>What if I say King Joffrey?
>>Yes, but a man is not a bird. He would put one foot in front of the other and sooner or later the king would be dead.
Paraphrasing but that's how the convo goes.
Arya is not on the battlefield. she knows nothing about robb's plans for the war. and also she is a kid and so is not gonna act in the rational practical manner that anyone else would in her situation
But she does know Robb is at war with the Lannisters, and she even has some knowledge of Tywin's plans as his cupbearer.
Further, why did everyone mock Edmure's bid at king and listen to Sansa mocking him? He and Tyrion were the only battle seasoned Great Lords at the election. He was always fiercely loyal to The Starks and whatever they ended up doing. I know it was just because he was a character that the average show watcher didn't care about, plus it gave Sansa a YASSQWEENSLAY moment, but he should have been a fairly obvious contender to anyone with two brain cells and a concern for the realm.
Thoros repeatedly resurrected Beric with just a prayer.
>Further, why did everyone mock Edmure's bid at king and listen to Sansa mocking him? He and Tyrion were the only battle seasoned Great Lords at the election. He was always fiercely loyal to The Starks and whatever they ended up doing. I know it was just because he was a character that the average show watcher didn't care about, plus it gave Sansa a YASSQWEENSLAY moment, but he should have been a fairly obvious contender to anyone with two brain cells and a concern for the realm.
I'm not familiar with what you're referring to. I have only watched the show until season 7 and refuse to watch the rest on principle
>Thoros repeatedly resurrected Beric with just a prayer.
but always in the aftermath of battle where deaths have occurred
Wasn't Edmure just a hostage for most of the war? He definitely didn't get a lot of respect but he really wasn't king material. The things is none of them were. There wasn't a single person at the "election" that wouldn't have been run out of King's Landing within a year.
Thus pick the one who can't run. I see.
They D&Did it again, bravo
How is that a yass moment for Sansa? Also they didn't laugh at him, they were just disinterested in his plea probably for the same reasons the viewers at home laughed at him.
Well he gets to go home and dick down his hot Frey wife while Sansa hits the wall at Mach speed due to the norths bitter conditions
Good? I don't like Sansa, but not because she's some yass queen standin like many say since she's not that at all.
she's that in the final seasons for sure, she just goes around telling people how to do their jobs in absurd contrived situations. like she walks up to this guy making armor and corrects him, even though she knows litearlly nothing about it. the ONLY WAY that scene makes sense, is if it's meant to portray her as an idiot with a giant ego. but instead it's played completely straight and represents her being competent. her whole character is fucking ridiculous, - but then, what wasn't fucking ridiculous by that point? arya surviving her gutstab was the death knell of the series. everyone who kept watching after that point was a sucker.
>she's that in the final seasons for sure
Not at all, mostly everything I see posted is a reach. In the final seasons both of the yasskweens in Dany and Sansa are passed up in favor of Jon by both the fans and characters on the show. Unironically the biggest yaas moment was the speech Dany gives after..ahem... "Liberating" Kings landing.
>she walks up to this guy making armor and corrects him
Yeah such a yaas kween moment that I can't even fucking remember the scene or even the episode to try amd find it. Likely some little side thing that isn't even focused on yet youre treating like a big deal. In any case, shes the charge there. Havent you ever had a boss tell you to do something you're already going to be doing? Well guess what, you just got slayed son.
Because it was QWEEN SANSA putting a dumb man in his place telling him to sit down. *snaps fingers repeatedly*
Yeah except she's right and doesn't try to disrespect him in any way. In fact politely telling him to sit allows him to save face.
we're deep into metacontext levels at that point in the series. sansa isn't acting like sansa, the character, should be have, sansa is just a vehicle for the authors and the actress. D&D say as much themselves, with their focus on e.g., 'acting moments' being one of their primary goals.
Dont care about whatever bullshit they say or how you perceive their intent. They clearly failed at portraying her as a yaas queen because you have to provide major levels of mental gymnastics to point it out. I don't see how anyone, ironically or not could come away with that scene with Edmure thinking it's some "actor moment." Even then when people are simping over their OP kweens like Dany it's Dany they're hyping up, not the actress. Unless she does some nude scene and get the coomers in a frenzy.
That was her uncle, one of the very few family members she had left. Then again if she wasn't willing to be a vassal of her own brother what does an uncle mean to her anymore?
Nobody was supporting it and her getting up on a pedestal for her uncle that she's been out of contact with less of a yaas moment than her quietly and politely getting him to sit down.
I won't give the lazy excuse that she's just a dumb kid but she isn't a fly on the wall for everything like us and she's not aware she's in a tv show who was just handed a deus ex machina. I would argue she doubts his abilities and doesn't see him as a magic man.
In the books, Tywin isn't at Harrenhall, Roose Bolton is. All of the dialogue between Arya and Tywin is taken from exchanges between Roose and Reek in ADWD.
Arya realizes she made a huge mistake not saving her kills for Joffrey/Tywin later, admitting that she needed the first kill to survive/believe Jaqen.
I've just been reminding myself of Cersei's actions in the later seasons and I just got to the part where she kisses Tyene with poison and then takes an antidote.
Does getting nutted in by your brother on the reg just make you retarded or something?
as retarded as that was Cersei getting revenge on the sand snakes was a really great scene when taken in a vaccum
yes that's true as well. There's a reason there's a mantra of there must always be a Stark in Winterfell
>HOTD was actually really good
>season 2 leaks confirm they're going hard for the girlboss rhaenyra vs idiot aegon route
>already changing pivotal parts of the books to satisfy this
changing pivotal parts of the books to satisfy this
I hope the eyepatch nigga survives since his actor ended up having huge prescence for some reason
thats not it. they're changing the most important move and win of the greens to hype up rhaenyra
>in the books the greens seeing they' have to abandon KL have the tresury moved to casterly rock
>the blacks take the city but have no gold to run it
>people start to starve and blame the blacks for it
then the show does this
>Aemond and Aegon are such shit rulers that they starved the city
>rhaenyra goes on a MGS mission to infiltrate the city and feed the poor peasants
lol ifthey do this it would be a classic case of ignoring the kino GRRM plot points in favor of muh morally white character. sounds so retarded it would actually be funny to witness.
the larger issue is that GRRM's "What was Aragorn's Tax Policy" quote is fully vindicated in F&B by Rhaenyra's downfall being solely caused by her retarded tax policy. No, this isn't bait, she actually loses because of taxes.
Also I was hoping Rhaenys' blowing up the smallfolk in her girlboss moment would come to bite them in the ass when the dragon pits get stormed.
Ryan Condal has for the most part demonstrated a balanced and insightful outlook on Gurm's writing and the ASOIAF world, until i actually see this happen on the screen i'm not going to take your word for it
>inb4 the bit with Rhaenys in S1
w/e, it wasn't that terrible. like i said, for the most part S1 was a very even-handed and well-written adaptation, so much so that i was genuinely surprised by how good it was
People seem to forget that this time GRRM is Executive Producer, and has both creative control and input. Nothing is shown what he doesn't approve of.
>Nettles tames the Cannibal instead of Sheepstealer and literally murders every dragon with ease (Vhagar included) and singlehandedly wins the Iron Throne for Rhaenyra
>daemon somehow survives the fall into a boiling lake
So I've gotten a bit further with Arya's three names, it's actually better in the show than it is in the books. Whereas in the books she names The Tickler and the random rapist before threatening Jaqen unless he frees her and her friends, in the show she names The Tickler, and then Amory Lorch because he's about to reveal her identity to Tywin, and then she plans to name Tywin but changes her mind after he leaves Harrenhal to instead get her and her friends freed.
I do criticise Arya for not picking Tywin, but I guess had she done so the war of the five kings would have gone very differently and she wouldn't have ended up training as a ninja and the whole of Westeros would've got their shit pushed in by The Night King. I guess it just had to go like that.
He said it would take some time and Tywin won't easily expose himself to potential assassination attempts
ARRGGGHHHHH
Jaqen, Rorge and Biter were headed to the wall to kill Bloodraven. That's why there was a pile of Blackfyre gold at the House of Black and White
has a chance to stop the war with The North before it really starts by letting Ned take the black but ignored his mother's and Varys's advice because he wants to feel like a big man making big kingly decisions
Joffrey is a sociopath, he's an inbred bastard who enjoys hurting people. He's not very bright and he's also like 14.
>>Robb, after pushing Tywin and Jaime's shit in, has a chance to continue winning but chooses to marry some random whore who takes his fancy against the advice of his mother and advisors because he wants to feel like a big man making big kingly decisions
Robb has a traitor leading half his army, Roose Bolton, who is causing him to lose all of his most loyal men and making his victories pyrrhic. Robb was doomed before the Red Wedding, but letting Theon, an incredibly valuable 'hostage', go and having the Ironborn start sacking the north (especially Winterfell) was the death blow.
>Robb has a traitor leading half his army, Roose Bolton
Roose isn't set on betraying Robb from the start, instead he has set himself up so that he benefits whether Robb wins or loses. If Robb wins, Roose is now dynastically to the new King of the North via their mutual marriages to Waldur's daughters. If Robb loses, well everything that did happen.
Roose is purposefully weakening other northern lords from the start. He decides to betray Robb later but he had already been sabotaging Robb's war effort from the start
I miss this lil nigga like you wouldn't believe
If I had a Valyrian steel sword I'd call it Vin Diesel.
Robb's ''excuse'' is much more relatable and honorable atleast, joffrey was just a vindictive shit heel.
god fucking damn it, i love ASOIAF so much. idc what the contrarians of Cinemaphile say, this is one of the best fantasy series ever. no other series hits the spot for me like it does and it fucking kills me that we'll never see it finished. up till now i've been hanging on to the slim hope that we MIGHT get Winds and a Dunk&Egg story, but the future looking bleak (and full of terrors)
If if were up to me, I'd commission fat man to write Roslyn, Roslyn: A Young Woman's Erotic Journey from Winterfell to King's Landing.
You know he'd be down to crank that out in a couple weeks since he could type with one hand down his pants.
>MIGHT get Winds
GRRM said last month he's almost near finishing 40% of winds of winter anon! trust the crumblebeard
don't get me wrong, i know that we'll never get Dream, but i was sure that the fat POS must've written enough Winds (even with his incessant procrastination and re-writing), that even if he were to kick the bucket suddenly, a book could be cobbled out of it
i think it's all but sure that Dream is not coming out
My 10% on Dream includes somebody else writing it for George after he drops dead
It's absolutely guaranteed that other people will finish the various series in the setting.
>But GRRM said in interviews he doesn't want other people to do that.
Once the author is dead, nobody gives a shit. Tolkien explicitly stated, in interviews and in letters, that he wants other authors to fill in the mythological tapestry he's created - his son Christopher ignored this.
Frank Herbert had plans for one more novel - instead his son, Brian, never finished the series, and instead churned out multiple prequels based on some magical notes.
>we MIGHT get Winds
I am confident that we will get Winds. A Dream of Spring? I say 10% chance it ever comes out
I find it really comfy. I like that GRRM's a fat fuck and will just spend a paragraph talking about buttered eels in peppers with honeyed wine. I hope he manages to end the story on a good note that's open-ended. Like Aegon (who is actually a Blackfyre but it's not revealed) becomes King and renews the Targaryen line
Reminder.
Joffrey was right not to listen to the traitor Varys or his dumb cunt mother, even if things didn't work out.
I respect that he left acting entirely after this.
Reminder that the TV show is canon
Was he intentionally sabotaging Dany to protect his family or was he actually just that stupid?
In the later seasons he was giga retarded
>Show
He's just retarded
>Books
He's evil and every other chapter he talks about wanting to rape Cersei. 100% wants TLD
Cock status?
>But rises again harder and stronger
Melisandre will give him a fiery dick
Showfags may not realize this but Robb married her because that's what Ned would have done. She seduced him when he was injured and neds "muh honor" made him marry her after he fucked her. He was probably worried about having a bastard after seeing how Jon was treated. This was a retarded decision but showed both Robbs value of honor and his youthful naivety.
>They were both really bad at being kings and got what they deserved. GoT overall is a warning against ego and hubris.
I think that applies more to Iron King Balon and King Renly tbh
Hey Cinemaphile, can you tell what my Banner in the GoT mod for Bannerlord is supposed to be?
Varys' riddle.
Simple as
Correct
Imagine the kino if Sean Bean took the black and went to the wall and the story there focused on him.
They could have had a completely different story where John Snow is trying to learn off his uncle/adopted father.
Everything else could have been nearly the same. As ned stark is honourable and never would have left the wall.
It could have been interesting if Ned was jailed for a year before deciding what to do with him. Joffrey seeing him like an uncle, not wanting to kill his dad's friend, but also being a shit head and basically forgetting about him in jail. Then once Ned takes the black, Jon Snow has seniority over him. Ned is his underlying and Jon struggles to giver orders to his "father"
Does the Watch work like that? A former Lord Paramount comes in and now he's just Private Stark?
Yeah, but lords tend to rise through the ranks quickly thanks to all the advantages they receive in their youth.
Its a reset button. Criminal or lord, you're neutral. There is favoritism though. You could work your way up fast by being skilled, well liked, or holding a high reputation.
Janos Slynt is still being called Lord and has Jon arrested all because he was upjumped to Lord of Harrenhal and they got a letter from Tywin about Slynt being a friend of the crown.
The story would have been much better if ned went to the wall
So much opportunity. Imagine John snow still going out the the wildlings, and coming back trying to convince ned stark to form an alliance would have worked very well.
I think George is a retard by not thinking ahead and killing people off for the shock factor. So much potential missed.
You could have still killed off ned stark after another season on the wall or something, and jon picks up his mantle.
It almost seems he wrote a lot of stuff adhoc and then tried to relate everything somehow, with no greater plan for what was happening. And then just claimed it was complex realistic intrigue.