>kill Loki
>give him a series afterwards
>kill Black Widow
>give her a movie afterwards
What is Marvel even doing? It's like they want to have a big event movie where people die and there's consequences but then they're like "Oh shit, people still like these characters. We need to figure out a way to still do something with them."
At this point I fully expect Iron Man and Captain America to get something new at some point as well.
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I assume with Loki they were just trying to replicate the success that was Agents of SHIELD, since his character arc in episode 1 is point for point what Coulson's was in the beginning of AoS. The general disorder the TVA falls into is similar enough to the collapse of old SHIELD during the events of TWS/AoS.
With Widow, it's less clear. Before it came out, I had assumed that the intent of the movie was that the Widow we saw in Endgame was an LMD, or Yelena, or something else to chip away at Endgame's awful writing ---- but no, it was just a boring filler movie.
>"Oh shit, people still like these characters. We need to figure out a way to still do something with them."
It's closer to "Oh shit, our remaining/successor characters are dogshit, and we never bothered to have a fricking plan for what phase 4 was supposed to be, so lets backpeddle as best as we can. Also throw a bone to those delusional Xgays by ruining one of our popular characters, who could possibly go wrong?"
I mean they do have plenty of good characters left, but it feels like they killed Cap and Tony off way too early. Sure the movies were released over ten years in real time but the total number of movies those two were in was really not that large. It's like the actors agreed to the roles not realizing the scope of what they were agreeing to and that they would really need to be in it for the long haul, but these two want to be in other stuff and not be tied down by Marvel. From that perspective I do understand why they've started casting unknowns because they want people who can really commit to this for a long time.
I have no problem with Steve and Tony dying in Endgame, I just have a massive issue with Tony stealing his kill and the writing consequently having to character assassinate Steve to justify removing him from the narrative as well. This could have been easily solved by having both characters sacrifice themselves together in the final arc, but that's not what we got.
>From that perspective I do understand why they've started casting unknowns because they want people who can really commit to this for a long time.
The thing is, since arguably late phase 3 (this became far more apparent in phase 4), if you want audiences to give a shit about your setting, you have to make sure that the continuity errors and logic of the setting are mostly consistent. It's a lot more than characters and actors, it's making sure that your setting feels like a living breathing world, and not just a stock background for the next episode of DBZ. Every time the movies have introduced a new mechanic, such as the Accords or time travel, they almost immediately contradicted it or ignored it in all chronological sequels. And their choice of doubling down with multiverse bullshit all but ensures that audience apathy is an inevitability, that's the opposite of preparing for longterm investment
>And their choice of doubling down with multiverse bullshit all but ensures that audience apathy is an inevitability, that's the opposite of preparing for longterm investment
Come on man, people were saying the MCU was done for sure after Endgame but it just keeps going. This prediction happens after every big movie and it never comes true. Nobody's saying you have to like the movies but to act as if the audience is losing interest in the MCU just because you personally are losing interest, is just denying reality.
I think you misread my post if all you took away from it was "I don't like the MCU, I want it to end", and completely ignoring my multiverse comment in your reply.
>I have no problem with Steve and Tony dying in Endgame, I just have a massive issue with Tony stealing his kill and the writing consequently having to character assassinate Steve to justify removing him from the narrative as well. This could have been easily solved by having both characters sacrifice themselves together in the final arc, but that's not what we got.
Lmao this is the most moronic goy-brained shit I've ever read. You clearly don't understand either of those characters or how filmmaking works.
Tony making the ultimate sacrifice and Steve finally getting something for himself and getting to go home are great endings for those characters. The writing in Endgame was very strong, seems like you just don't understand the characters as much as you think you do
I've never watched any of the shows. Are the Netflix ones on both Netflix and Disney+, and do they all have the same tone as the movies?
>Are the Netflix ones on both Netflix and Disney+
Only on Disney+ now
>and do they all have the same tone as the movies?
The Netflix shows? Very different, more grounded and mature.
Agents of SHIELD is on D+, and quality wise its better than some of the movies. It takes a bit to get started, but it takes both itself and the setting of the movies seriously, and by the end of S1 it's found its own identity. Daredevil S1 and Jessica Jones S1 are solid as well.
Jessica Jones is absolute garbage with no redeeming qualities. If not for its attempts at being "edgy" it would fit nicely with Disney+ shows.
The Netflix shows are straight up gorey, they had to introduce TV-MA to Disney+ solely to be able to host the shows there.
daredevil murdering people in the netflix show is one of the reasons i don't like it and stopped watching
Loki's case is different from Black Widow, whereas the latter was a prequel that only came out after the titular character died, the Loki show follows an alternate version of the character that has a different character journey from the one in the movies.
>muh deff
u r dum
They need their milk money
>What is Marvel even doing?
Making money.
reddit post, kys
The concept of the Multiverse has been deformed my corporate greed. Where once was a chance for writers to explore themes of the roads not taken and the nature vs nurture of the self, now it has just become a method by which studios can endlessly squeeze out profit from every concept imaginable. Consequences don’t matter, the responsibility to commit to an idea can now be undone on a whim. There are no rules and nothing is sacred because “multiverse”
Actually the whole plot of Doctor Strange 2 revolves around the fact that people shouldn't mess around in other universes because it can cause an Incursion and destroy that universe. It specifically emphasized that the multiverse should be used sparingly.
is Loki dead I’ve only watched the first 3 Thor movies, Iron Man 3, Hulk with Norton, Agents of SHIELD, Iron Fist, Cloak and Dagger
Thanos kills him right at the start of Infinity War, which is kinda sad because it takes place right after Thor 3 and and he was just starting to get along with Thor as you may remember. However, in Endgame, the plot revolves around them traveling through time to gather the Infinity Stones, and they arrive during the events of Avengers 1. They mess up and Avengers 1 Loki steals the Space Stone and teleports away. Which leads to the events of the Loki TV series, the Loki from that timeline is captured by a group called the Time Variance Authority, labeled a "variant", and goes on his own adventure. So the original Loki is dead but "a" Loki is alive and will likely interact with the rest of the cast at some point.
There's simple explanations to both of these that's not LE MARVEL DUDDING KNO WOT THEYRE DOING HURRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR
Loki: His popularity exploded after Thor and Avengers, everyone assumed he was getting a movie. He didn't because these movies are about the heroes and we had to introduce more profitable characters and get to Infinity War and Endgame.
Disney begins plans for Disney+, Marvel figures out what they want to do. At this point Endgame is being written and they realize since the Avengers time travel to 2012, if the Loki from Avengers 1 peaces out somehow, then they can make a Loki show.
It's a double whammy because they can finally make a Loki show, and it's 2012 Loki so you're getting 2013 tumblrgirl money.
Black Widow: They wanted to make a movie since the 70s but it never got off the ground. Black Widow was introduced into the MCU in Iron Man 2 and everyone assumed there'd be a movie. Literally everyone. It was the phantom MCU movie, if you will.
At the time Marvel Studios (LA) was still under Marvel Entertainment (NYC) and therefore bound to Perlmutter. Perlmutter refused to allow a Black Widow film because he's an butthole. Marvel Studios then split from Marvel Entertainment in 2015, so from GOTG2 (2017) onwards, the films have been made directly by Marvel Studios with no Marvel New York intervention, no Perlmutter.
Now they could make a Black Widow movie, but the films themselves come first, and in Endgame she goes through an arc and her story is wrapped up. Yet that Black Widow movie still needs to happen, it's only right. Now, I don't like the movie. It should've been a dark thriller with Wolverine or something, but they just use it to introduce Yelena and show what Nat did after Civil War.
They basically HAD to make these.
Ok but loki> black widow
And there is no widow season 2
I wouldn't mind a Dead Avengers type story with a team of dead characters being temporarily thrust out of the afterlife to fight.
> Iron Man
> Jane-Thor
> Vision
> Wenwu / The Mandarin (for redemption)
> Battlestar
> Yondu
I guess this is how I find out how Love and Thunder ends.
Sorry man.
Smug prick. You will pay dearly for this.
No I was being serious. I am genuinely sorry. I don't know how to make fricking spoilers work on here.
here's how to do it text here
They needed to finish giving closure to them. Also they aren’t the same person.
>finish giving closure
Loki is going into Season 2 and Natasha wouldn't get any closure until the Hawkeye show.
They want to eat their cake and have it too.
Also I like the idea of Chris Evans coming back as Johnny Storm. It'd be a cool cameo because of how important he's been to the MCU as Steve and how he's one of the few actors who has played multiple Marvel characters in completely unrelated movies. Patrick Stewart being Professor X again gives precedent for it. Most importantly Evans has said he's game for it. And it'd probably just be a single movie thing so he wouldn't have to commit to a multi-film contract. Hell maybe the fact that he's floating the possibility means he's already agreed to do it. Kind of like how Henry Cavill was like "Man I'd love to be Geralt of Rivia" and then a few weeks later it was announced that he was.
Cahsing in