At this point I'm not sure if Abaddon just has some form of artistic dyslexia, or he's decided to incorporate his not drawing people with consistent clothing into an aspect of royalty or something.
Solomon David kept having sandals, no sandals, sandals again and so forth too.
Yeah, but he may be deliberating doing it to cover for any "accidents". I dunno.
It's different iterations of the timeloop. Each new panel in the series is actually a whole new loop, plus the panel time interval. Details that change from panel to panel are actually changing between loops.
She recorded her end of this conversation ages ago, since she already knew everything Allison would say, and is now just letting the recording play. But she didn't record it in one sitting, hence why she seems to be randomly changing clothes and hairstyles. Different parts of this conversation might have been recorded centuries apart.
strange coincidence that both this and gunnerkrigg court are covering the whole "prescience makes it so you stop believing in free will" conundrum
at first I was thinking "saying it this way is a little lucid for someone who lives inside of the all-time mirror, you would think they would be a lot harder to communicate with" but I guess that's because I'm thinking of dr. manhattan and most of that was from his POV
Also we could still be inside Jadis' bubble somehow hence the clarity
There's a chair at the base of the machine that has an appendage that appears to have a dozen foot-long spikes on it. Like something from Alien or something.
>I'm going to destroy my ass now, Allison >I'm going to gape myself sitting down on this thing in ways that would make Serbian pornstars flinch >I'm going to tear my ass open so goddamn wide I'm going to need a diaper for the rest of this series >No, not for sexual reasons >This is just the unavoidable and immutable future I have long foreseen
How does this jive with the confirmed existence of a repeating timeloop, with the loops confirmed to play out slightly differently due to changes in circumstance? Surely that shows that different choices, under the same circumstances, CAN be made. They just typically don't, because mostly people only get one chance to make any given decision.
How does this jive with the confirmed existence of a repeating timeloop, with the loops confirmed to play out slightly differently due to changes in circumstance? Surely that shows that different choices, under the same circumstances, CAN be made. They just typically don't, because mostly people only get one chance to make any given decision.
>implying all the loops aren't also just another immutable speck in the amber
>How does this jive
There's a few people here who kinda just don't give a frick about how Jadis functions until we get the whole picture. It's probably best to wait and see because right now there's too many unknowns to be able to say or speculate on anything. There's a point here and we're slowly getting to it but until we know the point we'd be arguing over shit that just may or may not turn out to be real.
Personally, I just feel kinda stupid and ignorant over the concept of an omniscient being. Can't say I've read many stories that spend so much time with a being that's like the Judeo-Christian God other than meeting God for a couple minutes sitting around a campfire or at a cafe.
Multiverse resets, Jadis acquires key, uses machine to perceive the form of this new existence, becomes trapped in it until it it destroyed, rinse, repeat would be my guess.
Basically, because Jadis is the only one omniscient, she knows how any changes to the timeline will play out. She knows what decisions the new successor will make, and the consequences of those decisions. She also knows the overall story won’t change. The seven will fall, because they must, a new king will rise, because stability is desired, and the universe will reset, because all things end. That can’t be changed.
The real question is what is her reason for revealing this information? What is she trying to goad Allison into doing? Is she trying to commit suicide? Is she helping Zoss with his project? She knows how Allison will react to her declaration of immutability.
>she knows how any changes to the timeline will play out.
No, it seems more like she's sees everything as unchangeable inevitability. if she could see how each decision created a new stream of causality, she'd be far more powerful and influential than the other Demiurges, she's easily replace Zoss.
> if she could see how each decision created a new stream of causality
She knows everything that COULD happen in addition to everything that will happen. She knows how to defeat Jaggonoth, it's not a There Are No Paths thing, and "could" do it quite easily if she weren't bound by fate.
But she sees that she doesn't do anything like defeating Jagg in the future. And therefore won't/can't defeat Jagg.
Jadis' very sincere desire, as stated by Abby on his tumblr, is to die. Now, whether she feels she can ACT on that desire to the extent of feeding other people information to achieve that goal with regards to the prison she perceives space-time to be is another question. It's not entirely clear what's going on with her floaty body right now but assuming she is genuinely without agency it sure is convenient Jag seemingly popped her out of her brick during th ebig fight
How does it not? Ever seen a kaleidoscope? All the pretty patterns can go round and round, but keep repeating the same overall fractal arrangements.
I mean it's kinda hard for me to take her that seriously on this when she couldn't even get the inheritors gender right unless that entire prophecy thing was a red herring from the beginning which i would also dislike.
Easy handwave for that is her translator misinterpreting, just as IIRC the current group following Jadis has turned what was once an organisation dedicated to study and enlightenment into a cult to Jadis' omniscience. It's like the Mechanicus in 40K, they assume they can turn their brains off because the machine/Jadis is infallible.
Those are ultimately predestined as well. It is inevitable that Metatron will spin the Wheel back into ruin in each new iteration, just as its inevitable that all the Seven will fail and be undone.
it's JIBE with. Meaning "to be consistent with". An entire generation of people who always listened to headphones way too loud try to use phrases they've only misheard due to ear damage...
I mean it's kinda hard for me to take her that seriously on this when she couldn't even get the inheritors gender right unless that entire prophecy thing was a red herring from the beginning which i would also dislike.
I think at best she sees the clear picture of reality, but someone Truly Royal can stir things up and throw it all off, and Zoss did so by breaking the inheritor cycle or something.
Someone who can make True Choices while bearing the weight of an understanding of causality/not giving a fig about it.
She never got the Inheritor wrong. It was her creepy Golumn translator who said “he”, and when she tried to correct him the tranlator just talked over her.
She did say he is the successor. Doesn't mean she was wrong. He could be the standard universe successor, the intended successor, the failed successor or a successor to something other than the master key. He could eventually end up with the key though I doubt that one. She wasn't surprised about Allison in any way so it's either a retcon or a red herring for the Demiurges.
I mean it's kinda hard for me to take her that seriously on this when she couldn't even get the inheritors gender right unless that entire prophecy thing was a red herring from the beginning which i would also dislike.
It was an obvious red herring from the moment that page was posted. At most we can expect some technically correct plot twist but that he was not the chosen one was clear the moment he didn't become the main character.
That also seems likely though a bit disappointing if it never gets addressed. Successors motivation perhaps? She's going to need one again after Cio. Is Allison really the successor though? Isn't the whole buildup towards there being no single successor?
2 years ago
Anonymous
It could be Alison gives her key to Zaid, making him her succesor freeing herself from Metatron entirely and just going off in true Royal fashion. Zoss breached heaven on his own, his mistake was thinking he needed angel face to keep going
Or is it the ultimate path to royalty? See power is great, but it can also be a crutch, especially considering how much everyone in the setting relies on those damn keys. They’re poison, metatrons great weapon. Get rid of them and he looses his grip, and royalty is yours.
Zoss fricked up when he didn't finish destroying his enemy Metatron and tortured Metatron for the key. Zoss broke into heaven and slew all the angels and bodied Metatron using no key. Why did he all of a sudden feel the urge to need one? Metatron through the pain of torture saw this weakness, and that's why the universe is in the mess.
It's time to destroy the key and close Metatron's trap for good.
>At this point it's best to destroy the key and remove Metatron's taint from the universe entirely.
If I remember right angels can't use keys. Using their nature against them forcing Metatron to evolve which isn't happening or forever hold the key making sure the world goes on with no interruptions is much more fun.
>forcing Metatron to evolve which isn't happening
after White Chain never say never >forever hold the key making sure the world goes on with no interruptions
that's stagnation, my friend, and stagnation is very un-Royal
2 years ago
Anonymous
That and Metatron might must give the key to someone troublesome out of spite, it's in his nature to interfere. Look what he helped Jagganoth become.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Can he actually give those keys if he has them? I'm under the impression that angels can't directly handle keys in any capacity which is why they need an heir to control so badly. So if someone was to cheat the rules and give them keys they are powerless to do anything short of becoming human like White Chain, and not only Metatron doesn't strike me as someone willing to do that before heat death of the universe doing it requires a fundamental change that would affect his goals. He can't become human if he doesn't care about humans, and he wont destroy or frick over the world if he does.
2 years ago
Anonymous
That is the angel's side of the Zaid plot. Angels cannot use keys, but they can control the person to which they'll give the key: Zaid.
2 years ago
Anonymous
To me, the devils and angels are made of the same stuff in the void. So theoretically, if Cio is able to handle a key then it should make sense angels can too.
I think what prevents the angels from using the keys is that their binding to reality is different from devils. Devil masks are bound by whatever stupid deal they make with humans, which probably most often is practically zero restrictions. On the other hand, the angels are bound by their bodies, which are all ancient shells forged by Koss in which he hammered the law thus forcing angels to obey the law as the gods decided they would be, which would be to watch over man and they wouldn't be able to fulfill that job if they were able to wield keys and therefore be stronger than man.
2 years ago
Anonymous
You got those confused. The law is hammered into their flame and their flame is orderly by nature unlike the devils, the bodies are made by humans. So unless they remake their flame like White Chain they are bound to follow the law. It seems like the law is open to interpretation when it comes to whom they can serve but the key part seems to be pretty clear cut.
That is the angel's side of the Zaid plot. Angels cannot use keys, but they can control the person to which they'll give the key: Zaid.
Exactly, so if Metatron gets the keys they're fricked because he presumably can't use or transfer them. And any way for him to circumvent that would stop him from his original goal in the process whether he would self destruct and take the keys with him or develop Stockholm syndrome and become human.
I'm feeling a title page coming up. Jadis is the sin of Sloth and now she's talking about how everything is still and static, all events are immutable, and nothing means anything. All the other demiurges were given title cards at moments that showed what they believed power and Royalty was. And it seems like Jadis is about to tell Allison what she thinks Royalty is.
something I never understood about how "fate is immutable" or whatever, is that wouldn't sharing this information change things? Though I guess in this case jadis is getting around that by mentioning all -possible- worlds, implying that she knows everything that could potentially happen as well as what "will".
It's less fate is immutable and more linear time is a perceptual flaw. The totality of creation exists at once and you're stuck just looking at tiny bits of it at a time.
No, because her saying that is accounted for. Everything is accounted for. It's like... imagine a character in a book saying that he know what is going to happen on the last page. The rest of the book doesn't change just because he said that. Now imagine the universe is the book.
it doesn't change anything because the fact she shared that information at that point was part of the course of the universe she's already seen.
Jadis is barely a person at this point, she has as much action as an actor in a movie.
An actor can still choose how to act something out. Jadis is a cosmic finger puppet at best.
God I love Hansa, what a fricking butthole. Zoss transcends death to guide his successor and try to break the cycle, Hansa transcends death solely so he can continue to shit talk his daughter.
Hansa never shit talked his daughter, the story of Prim wasn't Hansa fricking with his daughter, it was Prim struggling with her self consciousness, fear of having to survive on her own, and the weight of her father's shadow.
Mottom: source of gluttony destroyed
Mammon: source of greed destroyed
Salmonella Division: source of pride destroyed
I can't wait for Jadis to feel the burn, but she isn't enough of a person to actually feel loss.
Personally I can't wait for Jagganoth's sinnihilation because I honestly cannot imagine what form it would take at this point given how committed he is. Allison fricking Jagganoth would make as much sense as anything to me.
Feels like you've all already litigated it by this point, but I must say. It's a really fricking stupid idea to the youtuber thing of early release for patrons on a webcomic. This shit lives and dies on word of mouth and bifurcating it would be a death sentence for the unestablished and for the established still can't be doing ANY good.
I don't give a shit if Abby wants to keep doing it and I wouldn't discuss it here if someone else didn't keep posting it here, but at the same time I don't mind. I gave Abby my tip to read moar comic sooner, it's up to him if he wants to keep getting my tip.
>Personally I can't wait for Jagganoth's sinnihilation because I honestly cannot imagine what form it would take at this point given how committed he is.
Sailor Moon VS Sailor Galaxia
"Violence isn't the only way to solve things."
Last thread, someone mentioned a book called Angelmaker, and I wonder if that's partly the angle Abbadon went with here? Perhaps the Perfect Machine is (at least partly?) causing reality to frick up hard core to create the predestined system per its calculations. Allison, being aspiring royalty and a business major, is too simple to realize she should be under its thrall, and ends up tard raging her way through it's reality constraining powers, ultimately freeing the wheel from Jadis's "frozen in amber" nonsense. Of course, this means all bets are now off, and events are free to proceed in any number of chaotic directions.
Serious question, what is there to talk about? Doubt Sarah Greene's going to be the key to the fate of the multiverse. And we've seen Allison freaking out enough that I'm not sure what more there is to say about it.
She's not a nihilist you frickwit, she's omniscient, meaning predestination is real in this comic, only not the Christian interpretation, and so there really is no inherent point to anything.
Well if she's omniscient why doesn't she do something about it? She should know how to react. >but hurr durr she can't she's predetermined too
Then who's to say she's omniscient? Maybe she's just a robot prank made by God or something.
I understand it enough to know it doesn't make any sense for anyone other than God to have it. If you're omniscient and you see that in 10 seconds you'll raise your right hand then you can raise your left hand and boom you've changed fate.
You can make up some bullshit about me losing my free will but that just means I got turned into a robot prank controlled by God.
2 years ago
Anonymous
This sums up how I feel nicely.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Laplace's Demon?
2 years ago
Anonymous
If you want to have omniscence in a setting where free will exist then omniscence would involve all possibilities. So you can decide what hand to raise but you know what will happens in either case.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Wouldn't that mean you'd get yourself stuck in an endless loop of trying to change your outcome? >alright, I'll raise my right hand >I know I'm gonna do that >alright I'll raise my left to trick myself >I know I'm gonna raise my left to trick myself >alright so I'll actually raise my right to trick myself to trick myself >but I know (ad infinitum)
No wonder Jadis is stuck in an iceblock wanting to die, sounds like hell.
>virgin philosopher king prostratating himself before logic and determinism
I understand it enough to know it doesn't make any sense for anyone other than God to have it. If you're omniscient and you see that in 10 seconds you'll raise your right hand then you can raise your left hand and boom you've changed fate.
You can make up some bullshit about me losing my free will but that just means I got turned into a robot prank controlled by God.
>chad low-IQ royalty that raises whatever hand he fricking feels like
Allison has a degree in philosophy. The floating lady whose name eludes me is wasting words here as "hard determinism" would do. I know Abby is a STEMgay, but he should understand that people who studied "useless bullshit" are not completely ignorant when it comes to said bullshit.
I always forget Allison is a philosophy major and every time I'm reminded of that I am hurt at how fricking stupid and impulsive she is.
Philosophy isn't easy. Yeah sure, like any discipline you can use what you learn to reinforce your own biases and huff your own farts for the rest of your life but the one thing that you get out of a philosophy degree is the ability to grasp complex abstract unknown shit. Like you're steeped in new ideas that are only ideas, you don't get to play around in a lab with chemicals or living samples or physical materials you're playing with your thoughts and fricking books and shit written by other people huffing their own farts. You juggle fricking ideas in the basement of a rotting building that hasn't been renovated in decades because the arts programs have no fricking money.
I understand that anybody of Allison's intellectual ability can dogfrick their way to achieving a college degree but holy shit she would have to be the bottom of her class the way she's behaving. My friend got a job at NASA when he was a student, fricking NASA, and to him it was the adventure of a lifetime because it was fricking NASA and because his job was essentially playing Mythbusters.
Allison hasn't fricking spent nearly enough time appreciating that she's been told God exists/existed. Most people sure, I understand they want their fricking Lord of the Rings adventure but this should mean so much more to Allison than how she's treating it.
Abby should fricking retcon Allison to being an English or Art History major or something truly fricking useless. It fricking bothers me so much that she studied philosophy for at least four years.
Yeah I feel stupid for pulling the trigger so stupidly.
Her being a business major makes perfect sense now, a minor in philosophy doesn't mean shit. Business majors are if anything, trained to be attack dogs, and Allison is just a stupid one.
The only way to be successful with a business major is to already have contacts in the corporate world or have the skill to snake your way into having contacts.
Allison was too poor for the former and too socially awkward for the latter so I predict after graduation she was going to continue to be a barista until she made management.
Observation changes outcome, and with a machine that's determined the outcome of all things perfectly you've functionally paralyzed all of reality. Zoss had something to say about morons trapped in imaginary cages.
I also suspect that Jadis can perfectly see the form of past and present, but only sees the future until a Royal acts upon it, which changes things entirely, but sets up a new future that Jadis once again believes she has always seen perfectly "same as it ever was".
I like this theory. Royalty is so powerful at acting upon reality it retroactively reworks the past.
It's also a thing in Morrowind. When the Tribunal drew power from the heart of Lorkhan and became divine, history was weirdly rewritten to acknowledge them as always being gods, with some contradictions.
>muh fate
Nah, frick that. Time to flip some more coins.
I guess that's what Zoss has been doing.
The issue is you, like many others, think this is a "frick fate, make your own fate" story, and that Jadis revealing all this is so the story can go "YEAH UNLESS YOU'RE REALLY COOL"
But Zoss himself said fate exists, events are predetermined, not even royalty can escape what IS. Hansa and Zoss both were royalty, they both died because there was no changing that they would die. Zoss could not change the fate of the Wheel because it was always determined that his hand could not right it.
Remember Zoss' words, fate is not a cage except for those who fear it. This is not a story of defying fate and forging your own destiny, this is a story of embracing fate and riding it's wild winds to do what you MUST.
This is exactly why I'm interested in how Allison is going to thwart fate. Like you said, the fixed state of things to come IS stressed as something even Zoss finds to be a constant; Abby said Zoss has "become" the shape the Wheel so perhaps due to some sort of divinely empowered observer effect bullshit "collapsing the waveforms" (I'm sure it'll be framed in more mythic terms) attaining a certain level of power also comes with certain restrictions on the kind of outcomes Zoss can conceive of.
Did anyone else realize that in the first page Jadis is repeating the alt-text from the last few pages?
She's seeing beyond the boundaries of the page.
Have you considered that this isn't a story about twarting fate? Fate isn't the enemy here, its not some chain holding Allison back from being the big hero. Have you considered that Allison's fate IS to save the universe? Jadis already saw it as such, Kill Six Billion Demons, Allison is the heir to Zoss' legacy, she who will become Breaker of Infinities.
I'm tired and copying words I'm thinking about too much-what I meant to say was: I'm interested in how Allison is going to snap Jadis out of her fugue if Jadis already knows everything she will do. Let's say you're right for the sake of argument, and Jadis knows Allison is going to save the universe. Does kSBD as a story just end when it reaches the point where Allison resolves the conflict and Jadis can, presumably, die at last? Or does she do something beforehand that-if not throw off the prediction-at least changes Jadis' interpretation of it.
There is no changing the prediction. What is to be IS to be, no matter how royal or divine you might be. The fate Allison has been given may not be so exact as "do this, go here, do this, go there"
A good example I think is Wheel of Time. In Wheel of Time, time is, well, a wheel. Events repeat, ages turn and return and the events, though they may be different in some ways, play out the same. But it does not mean the events are exact, nor does it mean the people tossed around by fate's hand have no will of their own, such as with Rand al'Thor, and the chapter Veins of Gold, where the very fate of the universe rested solely on a single decision of Rand's. Had it tipped one way, the world would of been doomed, but it tipped the other way, the prophecies were fulfilled, the fate of the world set in motion.
Perhaps its something like that, Allison's fate is to set the fate of the Wheel into motion. She could be the central cog thats placed in the machine, though she may be stuck as a part of the machine, the machine keeps turning because she is there.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Very non-royal thinking anon
2 years ago
Anonymous
>There is no changing the prediction. What is to be IS to be,
I doubt Abaddpn as much as said this, so all you are going on is Jadis' conviction that it is so. ALL of the Demiurges believe what they are doing is right and perfect, right up until they are destroyed. Mottom was the closest to having any self-doubt. None of them are perfect or they'd have supplanted Zoss a long time ago.
Stop carrying on like you are the writer's assistant.
I'm not saying I know what is going to happen, I'm forming my theory of the story based on context clues. Zoss was royalty, Zoss could not and did not defy fate, even in his own words is that only those who fear fate treat it like a cage. We know for a fact that those who are royalty see causality beyond the here and now, Hansa knew he would die because of his smoking pipe, so he always carried it with him, so that at the time of his appointed death he would be ready. Zoss knew he would die when he traveled to find Allison, it's why he didn't even bother fighting Juggernaut, because his death was already decided, and even then he was royalty, so death was only a minor inconvenience.
My point is so many are looking for ways on how Allison will defy what has been laid out before her, instead of embracing it and forging ahead.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>There is no changing the prediction. What is to be IS to be,
I doubt Abaddpn as much as said this, so all you are going on is Jadis' conviction that it is so. ALL of the Demiurges believe what they are doing is right and perfect, right up until they are destroyed. Mottom was the closest to having any self-doubt. None of them are perfect or they'd have supplanted Zoss a long time ago.
Stop carrying on like you are the writer's assistant.
2 years ago
Anonymous
You're contributing nothing to this conversation you're just shitting uncritically on other people's ideas.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Ideas should be stated as conjecture, not phrased as statements of fact.
That doesn't truck at all with what Jadis is laying down.
To embrace or defy is still a choice, and the existence of Jadis implies that there is no choice, because it's already made, you just don't know it because you haven't seen it. Jadis has. Nothing matters because there are no stakes. Success or failure is already decided. The end is written into the beginning.
It's the discussion from the last thread all over again where people continually misunderstand that Jadis' existence as an omniscient being intrinsically and instantly invalidates the volition of everybody else in the entire setting. She is quite literally incompatible with a universe in which free will is a thing. Abbadon has confirmed, 100%, that Jadis is capital O Omniscient.
I honestly have no idea how he is going to write himself out of this without it being a huge cop-out.
Omniscience doesn't intrinsically violate free will. If I know you're going to order a pepperoni pizza for dinner tonight and you do, you still decided to order a pizza. Foreknowledge of the choice you're going to make doesn't remove your culpability for that choice.
>nothing matters because there are no stakes
Even for Jadis, it's wrong to think "nothing matters because the future is already written." Rather, "everything matters because the future happens because I do what I do and everyone else does what they do." Separately, knowing you'll enjoy a delicious meal on October 12, 2034 doesn't make the meal any less delicious or your enjoyment any less real.
The level of satisfaction is predetermined in a deterministic setting. By definition, knowing it in advance changes nothing.
For am omniscient, there are experiences that are enjoyable regardless of foreknowledge (e.g., delicious meal, great sex, cool summer breeze). For the experiences that foreknowledge would seem to dampen, there was never any possibility of not having foreknowledge, so nothing was really dampened, was it?
There are absolutely still stakes. You're misunderstanding the sheer breadth of fate's weave. It's not like Google maps where it goes "follow line A then go to station B and then embark at C" thats a human perspective that only thinks of forwards and backwards.
Fate can be so much more blurry, so much more vast in it's tangle. Was Allison fated to survive against Incubus because Maya was fated to step in and stop him? Or was that simply one branch of Allison's fate? Could Allison have died at the battle of Jagganoth and still fulfilled her fate? Possibly. Does Jadis see the whole of fate as single threads running from one person to the future, or is it a complex web of lines crisscrossing, and Jadis is simply tracing the lines as Allison rides along them?
People treat fate and destiny like it's some great evil, or that it's existence invalidates character choice, but they have no road map to lead them to their destination, even if the path is already determined, it's their own feet that carry them that way.
>People treat fate and destiny like it's some great evil, or that it's existence invalidates character choice, but they have no road map to lead them to their destination, even if the path is already determined, it's their own feet that carry them that way.
Right, fate is not a cage except for those who fear it. You will do what you will do, for the reasons you do it. To be concerned with the ultimate result of your actions is to cling to victory.
To Cut you have to remove your past and future selves as useless hangers on and focus only on the present moment. Royalty knows that it is the act itself that matters, not the outcome.
I'm really more curious to see how Jadis rules 1/7th of creation more than anything. We know that Jag builds his into a military camp, Incubus wallows in decadent filth and dependence, Gog infiltrates hers on every level, Mottom's is a consoomer empire, Solomon a perfect utopia reflecting the greatness that is Solomon and Mammon as some sorta banking ponzi scheme.
But what influence does Jadis exert over all of her worlds?
I SUPPOSE she got exposed to the machine, gained omniscience, and used THAT to win a key, (because she's destined to) and rules 1/7 because that's what she does...very Dr. Manhattan-esque? But all of the 7 flavor their worlds through their natures and desires (though we never really see Mammon's worlds, just his retreat). What are Jadis' worlds like?
And if you really think about it, most if not all of the Demiurges seem trapped in the same "Inevitable Fate" trap that Jadis is in, it's not unique to her, she just knows more details and the inevitable course of them. None of the other 6 had the will to break out of their traps.
I just wanted to drop in and say that I haven't stopped making edits. I've just been waiting to see where this plot point is going before I hard commit to a new gag. Have a sample of whats cooking, with more to come in the future. See you then.
Frightened of change? But what can exist without it? What’s closer to nature’s heart? Can you take a hot bath and leave the firewood as it was? Eat food without transforming it? Can any vital process take place without something being changed?
Can’t you see? It’s just the same with you-and just as vital to nature.
You know, there's no guarantee Jadis has to tell the truth all the time either - if she sees herself lying about the future, she will do so.
But that's much more infuriating, since there's no way you can prove someone isn't a prophecy zombie and just foresaw everything you did and never told you in advance.
Since Jag is invincible, he may be able to kill Metatron and his angel hordes. Perhaps this angel war is what Jag is doing now that the threat of the Pact is broken.
Doubt it. METATRON seems like a being even potential stronger than Zoss at his height. There was a theory that went around that he intentionally lost to Zoss to bind him to The Wheel
>Angels want order >What better order than forcing the same events to happen over and over while the one who broke the original order is forced to maintain it.
>It must be broken
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't everything in KSBD generally following the Hindu cycle of the universe?
First Part: 1 single god
Second Part: many gods who create the universe
Third Part: humanity grows decadent, and everything decays
Final Part: the universe is destroyed only to be remade again in the new cycle
It's almost certain Metatron is playing Jagganoth by being either the true power behind the resets or at least the being who engineered them and THINKS he's still in charge of them. The real question is whether Jagganoth's methodology for killing him would actually work on a being that exists outside of space and time.
Doubt it. METATRON seems like a being even potential stronger than Zoss at his height. There was a theory that went around that he intentionally lost to Zoss to bind him to The Wheel
Abby has said on the tumblr that ultimately Metatron is just a conceited creature of a dead world and Zoss is Royalty. But Royalty =/= powerlevels in a quantitative superiority sense so it may not be as simple as that.
It really depends on how /sincere/ the act of torturing dem names out of Metatron was. Either Zoss was baited into something that has somehow restricted his options, or Metatron is in deep cope about getting his ass beat despite his divine knowledge.
Oh hey, I found the thing i was originally going to post with
I miss when Abby would tell us fun things over on his tumblr. I know it got aggravating for him over time with all the power level questions but still, was fun while it lasted.
Yeah, I mean it's understandable because we're getting into the endgame where there's probably NOTHING being asked or to talk about other than spoilers, or obscure lore questions he'd be mostly freestyling on.
But hey while I'm at it, I also dug up the enigmatic stuff about Metatron, Himself and being roughly as powerful, nearly no-bullshit divine beings in a world deprived of them and crippled to some extent as a result.
He moved to his discord for that sorta q&a (where he is similarly aggravated explaining that invincible means invincible and omniscient means omniscient kek)
Doubt it. METATRON seems like a being even potential stronger than Zoss at his height. There was a theory that went around that he intentionally lost to Zoss to bind him to The Wheel
Abaddon has stated that if it weren't for the Old Law hammered into his very soul, METATRON could annihilate all life on Throne with but a word. He's far beyond both Zoss and Jag, even as an actual cripple.
>He's far beyond both Zoss and Jag, even as an actual cripple.
What? Zoss is the REASON he's all cripped up and stick with pins. Zoss beat an army of lesser gods and greater angels.
I don't think he means crippled in the sense of body but that he's so adherent to the old law that his sheer reality ending might is bound in a way that cannot be undone.
Its like his arms and legs are bound and all he can move freely are his two pinkies.
And he still was practically impossible to defeat.
No, but being willing to allow yourself to be paralyzed to exert subtle but unassailable control over your enemy and all his latch-key kids is pretty metal.
Abaddon has directly stated that Metatron (and Himself) operate entirely beyond space and time in ways we fundamentally cannot comprehend. Metatron was not "beaten" by Zoss in the same way you cannot beat the author of a story because they exist beyond the limitations of the words on the page. Metatron's physical body does not matter at all on a level beyond even the other angels, and by 'crippling' him, Zoss only ended up trapping himself in Metatron's monomyth along with everyone and everything else.
Metatron's only truly crippled in the sense that he cannot erase everything on the Wheel himself to leave a silent infertile void of nothingness and needs intermediaries to do his work instead.
Also, Throne is just a big city. It's not even solar-system level destruction. I think you've really conflated Metatron into a greater degree of omnipotence than he actually has. He got curb-stomped and is lying in a puddle of his own piss from the last Royal he ran afoul of.
Throne is the hub of the Wheel. If it was entirely lost, the Wheel would likely break apart into literal nothingness.
Also, Throne is just a big city. It's not even solar-system level destruction. I think you've really conflated Metatron into a greater degree of omnipotence than he actually has. He got curb-stomped and is lying in a puddle of his own piss from the last Royal he ran afoul of.
Feels like you've all already litigated it by this point, but I must say. It's a really fricking stupid idea to the youtuber thing of early release for patrons on a webcomic. This shit lives and dies on word of mouth and bifurcating it would be a death sentence for the unestablished and for the established still can't be doing ANY good.
>you've all already litigated it by this point
Yeah, and we concluded that any discussion in any community will either be in-line with the free weekly release OR the Patreon release shared and spoiled. And so the only relevant thing to you as the reader and person discussing this story each week is whether you want to discuss this comic with one type of community or the other. And if you're having issues because you want to engage with two different communities, that's your problem as an established reader and a new reader wouldn't have that problem they only have to choose what community they want to engage with.
So why the frick are you re-litigating the issue when you ought to know that there's no grounds to b***hing unless you have a problem that doesn't have any valid reason for everyone else or the author should accommodate for you. And we can all agree that if the author does this for financial gain then that ought to justify all the inconvenience you or we experience especially when the problem is simply having to wait an extra fricking week in the worst possible situation.
Did anyone else realize that in the first page Jadis is repeating the alt-text from the last few pages?
She's seeing beyond the boundaries of the page.
I'm annoyed that of all the girls that could've gotten porn, it was the meme bug girl. Not Mottom, not Gog, not Jadis. At least we kind of got that with 000001 before the redraw.
Based, I just want to enjoy clowngirl porn that's not of fricking Harley. Although I wouldn't mind if Abby just drew her FULL biomass, because then it would appeal to me in other ways by being-
-shit, I can't think of another impossibly vast, worm based hive queen other than the main antagonist of Biomega. No, Kerrigan doesn't count. For anything. Starcraft 2 ruined Kerrigan and the Zerg harder than going to comics ruined Harley Quinn, which is really saying something.
I just want to see it out of pure morbid curiosity, you know with Gog it's gotta be weird. And yes on everything you said about Harley, which is a sad state but here we are.
>Starcraft 2 ruined Kerrigan and the Zerg harder than...
It's almost staggering that Metzen, the man responsible for all of Blizzard's properties' lore was also the man in charge when they all went to utter shit.
Imagine destroying not one but three worlds. Warcraft, Starcraft, and Diablo started good and could have been great. Then as the world expanded they went to absolute shit.
Right. Right, her. Okay she hasn't been ruined to Kerrigan levels because that's a fricking hard achievement, but I'm getting real sick of this THE LUCENT HIVE AREN'T SO DIFFERENT FROM GUARDIANS crap the game is pushing. Especially right after Savathun herself literally tried to kill you, only to be reduced to a glorified holocron spewing enigmatic lines. Frick you bungie, b***h is NOT a misunderstood tragic heroine. b***h is literally responsible for the genocide of entire races over millions of years.
There is no way to redeem the Hive, and any comparison between them and Guardians is incredibly forced.
2 years ago
Anonymous
Dude the moral of the entire last season was basically "The fact that there may be good in the Lucent Hive doesn't excuse the fact that they're still monsters who want to kill us all." Saladin literally had a cutscene where he straight up says that mercy to an enemy cannot come at the cost of mercy for their victims. If anything the player base seems to be the one pushing the "Lucent Hive are the same as the Warlords" angle more than Bungie is.
The story does seem to be leading towards an eventual alliance with Savathun's Hive but it's pretty clear we're not going to end up all buddy buddy with her like we are with Caital or Mithrax. She want's to live, we want to live, and the Witness wants both of us to die, that's the only reason Humanity would work with the Hive.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>Dude
There's a lorebit about a Lucent Hive refusing to kill something even while it's Ghost urges it to. And fricking Crow can't shut up about how he feels THEY'RE JUST LIKE HIM or whatnot. >But in-game, someone just told you-
And that's great and all, but I can't shake the impression that someone in Bungie is pushing for sympathetic Lucent Hive. Just like how Destiny is STILL pretending Mara is any kind of mastermind even though objectively she has done nothing but lose, lose, lose, claim it was all just as planned, given you more quests and then lose some more while accomplishing nothing except making random characters fellate her >The story does seem to be leading towards an eventual alliance with Savathun's Hive
And that's fricking stupid. Oryx and his lot sure as hell didn't want to die, and we showed them no mercy.
2 years ago
Anonymous
>And fricking Crow can't shut up about how he feels THEY'RE JUST LIKE HIM or whatnot.
And Crow is also portrayed as fricking up massively due to that belief. There's literally zero sympathy in the story for Crow's actions, everyone agrees he screwed up and is just projecting his insecurities over Uldren onto the Hive.
>And that's great and all, but I can't shake the impression that someone in Bungie is pushing for sympathetic Lucent Hive.
There's a difference between being sympathetic towards someone and forgiving them. The Lucent Hive are going through a race wide existential crisis, there's some genuine pathos there. Doesn't mean they aren't still genocidal monsters that don't deserve so much as the time of day from humanity.
I think reality in KSBD is just Yisun increasingly compartmentilizing himself since that's the only way to have ''new'' experiences when you're essentially a Boltzmann brain. The reason Royalty exists and magic is about lying to reality is Yisun-fragments unknowingly tapping into their authorship. But Jadis has gone and done the inverse, instead of vibing with her self and becoming the author she vibed with the Wheel and became the script.
People never go, 'So what will I do in five seconds?' and then just *not* do whatever the person says you'll do. Presumably the precog will say, "I saw you do that OTHER thing you did instead of my prediction"?
How would you write this so that Jadis truly is always right? Does she see the alpha timeline and all the responses that Allison does in response?
That example doesn't actually prove anything. Jadis is fated to say something, you are fated to do something, but Jadis doesn't care about being right on the level that you are considering, because she already knows you're going to do the opposite of what she says. She's only saying it because it's in the script. There are no timelines, there's no branching paths. Everything is going to happen as it is going to happen, and Jadis knows all of it.
Jadis starts describing your thought process of intending to defy the prediction, and this continues in a feedback loop until you run away or die of insanity
Metatron's actions make perfect sense from the angels' point of view. Angels are the protector race, and what better way to protect the universe but to find a way to keep it stable forever?
Sorry but I don't care that a Roman citizen did some parlor tricks, there's probably like 3 million of the dickheads that did that and we're not worshiping them.
I sometimes wonder if the trend of people LARPing on Cinemaphile as christians only to wind up being so beaten down by life they unironically end up converting as a cope is similar to how people mocking Carol on Cinemaphile evolved into people unironically simping for her.
So go wild, is that it? No shit that nobody is good enough to be accepted as a true Christian. That's why you strive to be better at it. Most people in ~~*modern year*~~ would rather sit on their ass and blame anyone but themselves for all their problems. A very small percentage of any race is true royalty.
Consider that Christians and Muslims sort of worship the same god(s) but also don't. Christians do believe Muslims will go to hell if they don't convert and vice-versa. One of them MUST be wrong. Now consider that I don't like either group and I know enough about history to know they are both violent ideologies. Keeping all of this in mind, why is the Christian god the real one and all the others are fake? Remember, the point here is to convince me, not to use rhetoric tricks to win over gullible morons that stumble across our shitposts.
Consider that anon is also peddling his holier than thou prattle while posting on an imageboard about cartoons and comics, in a thread written by a man who has made entire folders' worth of fat fetish art
nta, but your premise relies on rather narrow interpretations of either religion and presents them as monolithic entities. Even within individual sects, there can be great variance. Now you could criticize that in and of itself. How can institutions that are so heterogeneous claim to represent whole cosmic truths? But that's a whole conversation on its own.
does it matter if there are disagreements within christianity or islam if either religion at one point in time or another decides to raid your town and forcibly convert everyone? A monolithic religion is not worse than a faction when it comes to genocidal behavior. And I really could care less about the "good ones" who just say not all muslims or not all christians. Frick off with that shit.
Blaming large, heterogeneous groups of people for the extreme actions of particular sub-factions or individuals is rarely productive. We've seen how that sort of thinking pans out in the real world many times.
Please circle back with this. I originally asked why the christian god is real vs other gods. Absolutely no one has ever been able to approach this in good faith. Instead I get deflection like your post. I can blame an entire group of people for anything if that entire group of people has a policy of proselytizing people that don't really care or even want to be proselytized. Has there ever been a muslim or christian doctrine/sect that DIDN'T want to convert everyone else? Get real. So here is your chance to convert me; why is your god real vs some other god? No bullshit this time.
Oh don't mistake my intentions. I'm not a Christian myself and I don't care to try to convert you. Your mind is clearly made up anyway. I've just been quibbling with you about some nuances of your use of language and your premise in the hopes that it'll help broaden your thinking a bit.
if jesus died for all my sins, and I worship another god, then aren't I already forgiven for that anyway, so hedging my bet by worshipping Allah is a better choice logically, right?
Christ's teachings murdered whole regimes of metaphysical thought. Christianity was a metaphysical extinction event, and it dealt potentially irreparable damage to the spiritual awareness of the laymen.
I do recognize and admire its incredible effectiveness as a memetic weapon.
Yes, and it's birthed countless expressions of metaphysical thought as well building upon his teachings. It's a meaningless argument since the same can be said of any great philosopher or spiritualist.
Countless expressions of metaphysical thought within a very narrow set of parameters.
You can write down as many numbers as you like that fit between 1.000001 and 1.000002
You're being deliberately dismissive of the breadth of thought that's come out of explicitly Christian contexts. And again, I fail to see how your words don't hold true for most any philosophy or religion. How much independent thought did Plato brutally smother in the crib by the propagation of his ideas?
How about the philosophy that can't come out of Christianity because Christianity literally destroyed/opposed those philosophies? Oh right, those are all evil/pagan/satanic so we didn't need them. Thanks for that.
The neat thing about pre-christian european gods is that while they were petty and cruel, they were also relatable and their fatalism and hero stories resonate with me in ways that Christianity never could. I can relate to Hercules or Thor because they try to do good yet fail in the process. I can actually learn from their mistakes and avoid that in the future because of the impression the stories made on me. But your christ is perfect. I can't relate to that at all.
>How about the philosophy that can't come out of Christianity because Christianity literally destroyed/opposed those philosophies?
Welcome to religion?
>The neat thing about pre-christian european gods is that while they were petty and cruel, they were also relatable and their fatalism and hero stories resonate with me in ways that Christianity never could. I can relate to Hercules or Thor because they try to do good yet fail in the process. I can actually learn from their mistakes and avoid that in the future because of the impression the stories made on me. But your christ is perfect. I can't relate to that at all.
How much you relate to the central figures of your religion is a valid metric and it's fair that you value it highly. But there's other metrics by which you can evaluate a religion, obviously.
>The neat thing about pre-christian european gods is that while they were petty and cruel, they were also relatable and their fatalism and hero stories resonate with me in ways that Christianity never could. I can relate to Hercules or Thor because they try to do good yet fail in the process. I can actually learn from their mistakes and avoid that in the future because of the impression the stories made on me. But your christ is perfect. I can't relate to that at all.
Ahh, a Marvelgay. "my heroes need to be... le morally grey!"
>breadth of thought that's come out of explicitly Christian contexts
Yes, that context is the narrow set of parameters I'm talking about. A kid can do a whole lot with ten legos, never realizing you've hidden a whole bin of them behind a corner. >How much independent thought did Plato brutally smother in the crib by the propagation of his ideas?
lol
[...]
if jesus died for all my sins, and I worship another god, then aren't I already forgiven for that anyway, so hedging my bet by worshipping Allah is a better choice logically, right?
It doesn't matter. I've read the bible and there is no quibbling over this fact; Jesus said the world was going to end. Not in 2000 years, he told people gathered together in a crowd that some of them would live to see his return to earth and the heralding of the end. It's what the scripture says and you have to add your own crazy interpretation to it to claim symbolism or some other meaning. The flawless son of God said the world would end about 2000 years ago and it didn't.Which means a God was wrong about something. Now shower me with cope.
Christ's teachings didn't even make it past his death before they were used by Peter to create a church that exists without input from Christ. That completely differs from how Christ conducted sermon or how he informed his disciples to live.
Which has since then suffered schism a thousand times upon itself until the pieces are unrecognizable from those original teachings and,
[...]
Christ's teachings murdered whole regimes of metaphysical thought. Christianity was a metaphysical extinction event, and it dealt potentially irreparable damage to the spiritual awareness of the laymen.
I do recognize and admire its incredible effectiveness as a memetic weapon.
as this anon points out. Created a spiritual nuclear bomb that wipes men's souls of any nuance of mysticism or universal understanding. Removing a rich tapestry of unknowable forces with a theology as bland as the crackers at communion.
The teachings of Christ are indeed commendable, if any institution bothered to follow them.
Frick this christcucks vs /r/atheism bullshit. I have a serious question: does Jadis have the biggest tiddies we've seen thus far in the story? Because holy shit
, I think Maya is bigger but she's a big round woman so it's a given. Technically Gog could probably win easily if she wanted to but Gog hasn't shown the willingness to create a star-sized giant clown woman with her merged mass yet.
>predetermined >"but what if.."
Panel 8 explains what she is seeing. The movement of everything calculated until the end of time. The firing neurons and chemicals in Allison translated to read what she is thinking. The whole existence is a billiard table with balls bouncing off one another, and she has the equation how it plays out until every ball is pocketed.
Fighting back one's fate or being indecisive, anything of "but what if.." nature is like saying a rube goldberg machine is fighting back against it's purpose.
the god
An now we wait for the autist
Thankfully, OP did exactly what I asked for and posted both images together :^)
I think weekly previews are done soon anyway, it’ll be down to seeing it one day early.
You still don't know how to make a trip don't you?
Couldn't be bothered, plus this thread meets my specifications so there's really no need beyond acknowledging my fanboys
Kek nice excuse
We will need a higher level of bullshit to outcheese this time looping, fate set in stone load of crap: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hkj-uvg2sRU
She went full Sotha Sil.
I was about to say.
Kinda weird she suddenly has a different hairstyle with her hair parting from the side.
She has been materializing more clothes and israeliteellery since Allison has woke up.
At this point I'm not sure if Abaddon just has some form of artistic dyslexia, or he's decided to incorporate his not drawing people with consistent clothing into an aspect of royalty or something.
Solomon David kept having sandals, no sandals, sandals again and so forth too.
This time it's clearly deliberate
Yeah, but he may be deliberating doing it to cover for any "accidents". I dunno.
It's different iterations of the timeloop. Each new panel in the series is actually a whole new loop, plus the panel time interval. Details that change from panel to panel are actually changing between loops.
She recorded her end of this conversation ages ago, since she already knew everything Allison would say, and is now just letting the recording play. But she didn't record it in one sitting, hence why she seems to be randomly changing clothes and hairstyles. Different parts of this conversation might have been recorded centuries apart.
so it's like jumpcuts
strange coincidence that both this and gunnerkrigg court are covering the whole "prescience makes it so you stop believing in free will" conundrum
at first I was thinking "saying it this way is a little lucid for someone who lives inside of the all-time mirror, you would think they would be a lot harder to communicate with" but I guess that's because I'm thinking of dr. manhattan and most of that was from his POV
Also we could still be inside Jadis' bubble somehow hence the clarity
I guess It's because Jadis' confusion and clarity both stem from the same scripted reality.
Wait so what is she levitating towards
There's a chair at the base of the machine that has an appendage that appears to have a dozen foot-long spikes on it. Like something from Alien or something.
>I'm going to destroy my ass now, Allison
>I'm going to gape myself sitting down on this thing in ways that would make Serbian pornstars flinch
>I'm going to tear my ass open so goddamn wide I'm going to need a diaper for the rest of this series
>No, not for sexual reasons
>This is just the unavoidable and immutable future I have long foreseen
Im horrified.
That does seem like something he'd draw.
...why Serbian?
How does this jive with the confirmed existence of a repeating timeloop, with the loops confirmed to play out slightly differently due to changes in circumstance? Surely that shows that different choices, under the same circumstances, CAN be made. They just typically don't, because mostly people only get one chance to make any given decision.
My guess is Jadis isn't aware of this.
>implying all the loops aren't also just another immutable speck in the amber
>How does this jive
There's a few people here who kinda just don't give a frick about how Jadis functions until we get the whole picture. It's probably best to wait and see because right now there's too many unknowns to be able to say or speculate on anything. There's a point here and we're slowly getting to it but until we know the point we'd be arguing over shit that just may or may not turn out to be real.
Personally, I just feel kinda stupid and ignorant over the concept of an omniscient being. Can't say I've read many stories that spend so much time with a being that's like the Judeo-Christian God other than meeting God for a couple minutes sitting around a campfire or at a cafe.
Multiverse resets, Jadis acquires key, uses machine to perceive the form of this new existence, becomes trapped in it until it it destroyed, rinse, repeat would be my guess.
Basically, because Jadis is the only one omniscient, she knows how any changes to the timeline will play out. She knows what decisions the new successor will make, and the consequences of those decisions. She also knows the overall story won’t change. The seven will fall, because they must, a new king will rise, because stability is desired, and the universe will reset, because all things end. That can’t be changed.
The real question is what is her reason for revealing this information? What is she trying to goad Allison into doing? Is she trying to commit suicide? Is she helping Zoss with his project? She knows how Allison will react to her declaration of immutability.
>she knows how any changes to the timeline will play out.
No, it seems more like she's sees everything as unchangeable inevitability. if she could see how each decision created a new stream of causality, she'd be far more powerful and influential than the other Demiurges, she's easily replace Zoss.
> if she could see how each decision created a new stream of causality
She knows everything that COULD happen in addition to everything that will happen. She knows how to defeat Jaggonoth, it's not a There Are No Paths thing, and "could" do it quite easily if she weren't bound by fate.
But she sees that she doesn't do anything like defeating Jagg in the future. And therefore won't/can't defeat Jagg.
She doesn't have a reason for revealing the information. She reveals it because she knows she will reveal it
Jadis' very sincere desire, as stated by Abby on his tumblr, is to die. Now, whether she feels she can ACT on that desire to the extent of feeding other people information to achieve that goal with regards to the prison she perceives space-time to be is another question. It's not entirely clear what's going on with her floaty body right now but assuming she is genuinely without agency it sure is convenient Jag seemingly popped her out of her brick during th ebig fight
I think she's still there, she just knew that she used a mental projection to talk to Allison so that's what she did.
How does it not? Ever seen a kaleidoscope? All the pretty patterns can go round and round, but keep repeating the same overall fractal arrangements.
Easy handwave for that is her translator misinterpreting, just as IIRC the current group following Jadis has turned what was once an organisation dedicated to study and enlightenment into a cult to Jadis' omniscience. It's like the Mechanicus in 40K, they assume they can turn their brains off because the machine/Jadis is infallible.
A new loop is just another extension to the same line.
She can see the whole shape of any given iteration of the Wheel, but to non-Royalty those iterations are self-contained.
Those are ultimately predestined as well. It is inevitable that Metatron will spin the Wheel back into ruin in each new iteration, just as its inevitable that all the Seven will fail and be undone.
>jive with
it's JIBE with. Meaning "to be consistent with". An entire generation of people who always listened to headphones way too loud try to use phrases they've only misheard due to ear damage...
I mean it's kinda hard for me to take her that seriously on this when she couldn't even get the inheritors gender right unless that entire prophecy thing was a red herring from the beginning which i would also dislike.
I think at best she sees the clear picture of reality, but someone Truly Royal can stir things up and throw it all off, and Zoss did so by breaking the inheritor cycle or something.
Someone who can make True Choices while bearing the weight of an understanding of causality/not giving a fig about it.
...Has Abaddon ever touched Legacy of Kain?
Elder scrolls.
Hm, that definitely does show, no denying that.
I suspect Zaid is/was the inheritor, was always the inheritor, and Zoss is just experimenting.
She never got the Inheritor wrong. It was her creepy Golumn translator who said “he”, and when she tried to correct him the tranlator just talked over her.
She did say he is the successor. Doesn't mean she was wrong. He could be the standard universe successor, the intended successor, the failed successor or a successor to something other than the master key. He could eventually end up with the key though I doubt that one. She wasn't surprised about Allison in any way so it's either a retcon or a red herring for the Demiurges.
It was an obvious red herring from the moment that page was posted. At most we can expect some technically correct plot twist but that he was not the chosen one was clear the moment he didn't become the main character.
She kept talking and got cut off, though. Seems to me she was going to say "He is the Successor's..." boyfriend/slam piece/frick meat. One of those.
That also seems likely though a bit disappointing if it never gets addressed. Successors motivation perhaps? She's going to need one again after Cio. Is Allison really the successor though? Isn't the whole buildup towards there being no single successor?
It could be Alison gives her key to Zaid, making him her succesor freeing herself from Metatron entirely and just going off in true Royal fashion. Zoss breached heaven on his own, his mistake was thinking he needed angel face to keep going
Hell, she could have forseen that she lies about it.
Can you imagine how unlucky person that must be?
>Ask the omniscient god a question.
>Fate compels her to lie to you.
You see, she was destined to say exactly this so that the events will play out as they did
Or some such nonsense.
>muh fate
Nah, frick that. Time to flip some more coins.
I guess that's what Zoss has been doing.
Yeah, for all we know Alison being not the chosen one meant this is the time the coin Or the wheel] lands on its side.
Give the key back to Metatron. He can't use it anyway and nobody will be able to beat key powered Metatron to take it.
At this point it's best to destroy the key and remove Metatron's taint from the universe entirely.
>...why Serbian?
He mentioned pornstars so it's probably a reference to A Serbian Film.
That's just incredibly un-Royal quitter-talk.
Or is it the ultimate path to royalty? See power is great, but it can also be a crutch, especially considering how much everyone in the setting relies on those damn keys. They’re poison, metatrons great weapon. Get rid of them and he looses his grip, and royalty is yours.
Zoss fricked up when he didn't finish destroying his enemy Metatron and tortured Metatron for the key. Zoss broke into heaven and slew all the angels and bodied Metatron using no key. Why did he all of a sudden feel the urge to need one? Metatron through the pain of torture saw this weakness, and that's why the universe is in the mess.
It's time to destroy the key and close Metatron's trap for good.
>At this point it's best to destroy the key and remove Metatron's taint from the universe entirely.
If I remember right angels can't use keys. Using their nature against them forcing Metatron to evolve which isn't happening or forever hold the key making sure the world goes on with no interruptions is much more fun.
>forcing Metatron to evolve which isn't happening
after White Chain never say never
>forever hold the key making sure the world goes on with no interruptions
that's stagnation, my friend, and stagnation is very un-Royal
That and Metatron might must give the key to someone troublesome out of spite, it's in his nature to interfere. Look what he helped Jagganoth become.
Can he actually give those keys if he has them? I'm under the impression that angels can't directly handle keys in any capacity which is why they need an heir to control so badly. So if someone was to cheat the rules and give them keys they are powerless to do anything short of becoming human like White Chain, and not only Metatron doesn't strike me as someone willing to do that before heat death of the universe doing it requires a fundamental change that would affect his goals. He can't become human if he doesn't care about humans, and he wont destroy or frick over the world if he does.
That is the angel's side of the Zaid plot. Angels cannot use keys, but they can control the person to which they'll give the key: Zaid.
To me, the devils and angels are made of the same stuff in the void. So theoretically, if Cio is able to handle a key then it should make sense angels can too.
I think what prevents the angels from using the keys is that their binding to reality is different from devils. Devil masks are bound by whatever stupid deal they make with humans, which probably most often is practically zero restrictions. On the other hand, the angels are bound by their bodies, which are all ancient shells forged by Koss in which he hammered the law thus forcing angels to obey the law as the gods decided they would be, which would be to watch over man and they wouldn't be able to fulfill that job if they were able to wield keys and therefore be stronger than man.
You got those confused. The law is hammered into their flame and their flame is orderly by nature unlike the devils, the bodies are made by humans. So unless they remake their flame like White Chain they are bound to follow the law. It seems like the law is open to interpretation when it comes to whom they can serve but the key part seems to be pretty clear cut.
Exactly, so if Metatron gets the keys they're fricked because he presumably can't use or transfer them. And any way for him to circumvent that would stop him from his original goal in the process whether he would self destruct and take the keys with him or develop Stockholm syndrome and become human.
This is just the Sin of Sloth talking shit.
I'm going to need to expand my canvas soon with these new faces.
Thanks Abby!
I'm feeling a title page coming up. Jadis is the sin of Sloth and now she's talking about how everything is still and static, all events are immutable, and nothing means anything. All the other demiurges were given title cards at moments that showed what they believed power and Royalty was. And it seems like Jadis is about to tell Allison what she thinks Royalty is.
For anyone who forgot from last week thread, Jadis is literally and completely omniscient
Can someone post the snippets from the discord?
something I never understood about how "fate is immutable" or whatever, is that wouldn't sharing this information change things? Though I guess in this case jadis is getting around that by mentioning all -possible- worlds, implying that she knows everything that could potentially happen as well as what "will".
it doesn't change anything because the fact she shared that information at that point was part of the course of the universe she's already seen.
Jadis is barely a person at this point, she has as much action as an actor in a movie.
It's less fate is immutable and more linear time is a perceptual flaw. The totality of creation exists at once and you're stuck just looking at tiny bits of it at a time.
No, because her saying that is accounted for. Everything is accounted for. It's like... imagine a character in a book saying that he know what is going to happen on the last page. The rest of the book doesn't change just because he said that. Now imagine the universe is the book.
An actor can still choose how to act something out. Jadis is a cosmic finger puppet at best.
is it really matter?
>NICE
NICE
I don't know what this is, but this is some pseud ass shit and you guys should feel bad for liking it
so this is Royalty...
Based royal
Great Hansa, I kneel...
God I love Hansa, what a fricking butthole. Zoss transcends death to guide his successor and try to break the cycle, Hansa transcends death solely so he can continue to shit talk his daughter.
Hansa never shit talked his daughter, the story of Prim wasn't Hansa fricking with his daughter, it was Prim struggling with her self consciousness, fear of having to survive on her own, and the weight of her father's shadow.
>theres no point in anything, because its all pre-determined
Sounds like somebody needs to shatter reality with a willpower so strong it breaks the system
Booooooooooo, absolute omniscience means absolute omniscience
I see, this chapter we're destroying this hunk of rock and metal.
Mottom: source of gluttony destroyed
Mammon: source of greed destroyed
Salmonella Division: source of pride destroyed
I can't wait for Jadis to feel the burn, but she isn't enough of a person to actually feel loss.
Personally I can't wait for Jagganoth's sinnihilation because I honestly cannot imagine what form it would take at this point given how committed he is. Allison fricking Jagganoth would make as much sense as anything to me.
I don't give a shit if Abby wants to keep doing it and I wouldn't discuss it here if someone else didn't keep posting it here, but at the same time I don't mind. I gave Abby my tip to read moar comic sooner, it's up to him if he wants to keep getting my tip.
She couldn't possibly survive contact with the Jaggahog.
She just needs to get drunk and horny enough.
Drunk Allison can do anything. She'd definitely outdrink the Jaggahog.
Not very Royal of you.
>Personally I can't wait for Jagganoth's sinnihilation because I honestly cannot imagine what form it would take at this point given how committed he is.
Sailor Moon VS Sailor Galaxia
"Violence isn't the only way to solve things."
That would be mad gay and hella cringe, however. And the start of Book 4 was demonstrating the limitations of the power of friendship.
Last thread, someone mentioned a book called Angelmaker, and I wonder if that's partly the angle Abbadon went with here? Perhaps the Perfect Machine is (at least partly?) causing reality to frick up hard core to create the predestined system per its calculations. Allison, being aspiring royalty and a business major, is too simple to realize she should be under its thrall, and ends up tard raging her way through it's reality constraining powers, ultimately freeing the wheel from Jadis's "frozen in amber" nonsense. Of course, this means all bets are now off, and events are free to proceed in any number of chaotic directions.
Alright, then.
Frick, got me good
>It don't matter. None of this matters.
Alright, someone draw Carl in a kimono.
Allison bout to bust some illusions.
Sad that no-one will talk about this page though.
Serious question, what is there to talk about? Doubt Sarah Greene's going to be the key to the fate of the multiverse. And we've seen Allison freaking out enough that I'm not sure what more there is to say about it.
Yeah I figured it was going to be something like this
Frickin' A
She says this after Jaggs revealed reality is in a loop imposed by someone living outside reality where each cycle is different than the previous one?
Jadis is really pretty oh my god
Nihilism is stupid.
She's not a nihilist you frickwit, she's omniscient, meaning predestination is real in this comic, only not the Christian interpretation, and so there really is no inherent point to anything.
Well if she's omniscient why doesn't she do something about it? She should know how to react.
>but hurr durr she can't she's predetermined too
Then who's to say she's omniscient? Maybe she's just a robot prank made by God or something.
I think you might legitimately be too low-IQ to understand omniscience
I understand it enough to know it doesn't make any sense for anyone other than God to have it. If you're omniscient and you see that in 10 seconds you'll raise your right hand then you can raise your left hand and boom you've changed fate.
You can make up some bullshit about me losing my free will but that just means I got turned into a robot prank controlled by God.
This sums up how I feel nicely.
Laplace's Demon?
If you want to have omniscence in a setting where free will exist then omniscence would involve all possibilities. So you can decide what hand to raise but you know what will happens in either case.
Wouldn't that mean you'd get yourself stuck in an endless loop of trying to change your outcome?
>alright, I'll raise my right hand
>I know I'm gonna do that
>alright I'll raise my left to trick myself
>I know I'm gonna raise my left to trick myself
>alright so I'll actually raise my right to trick myself to trick myself
>but I know (ad infinitum)
No wonder Jadis is stuck in an iceblock wanting to die, sounds like hell.
>virgin philosopher king prostratating himself before logic and determinism
>chad low-IQ royalty that raises whatever hand he fricking feels like
Blessed be, based anon.
Allison has a degree in philosophy. The floating lady whose name eludes me is wasting words here as "hard determinism" would do. I know Abby is a STEMgay, but he should understand that people who studied "useless bullshit" are not completely ignorant when it comes to said bullshit.
No degree, actually. seeker-of-thrones-6-58 identifies her as a business major with a minor in philosophy.
Wasn't Zaid a math major?
I always forget Allison is a philosophy major and every time I'm reminded of that I am hurt at how fricking stupid and impulsive she is.
Philosophy isn't easy. Yeah sure, like any discipline you can use what you learn to reinforce your own biases and huff your own farts for the rest of your life but the one thing that you get out of a philosophy degree is the ability to grasp complex abstract unknown shit. Like you're steeped in new ideas that are only ideas, you don't get to play around in a lab with chemicals or living samples or physical materials you're playing with your thoughts and fricking books and shit written by other people huffing their own farts. You juggle fricking ideas in the basement of a rotting building that hasn't been renovated in decades because the arts programs have no fricking money.
I understand that anybody of Allison's intellectual ability can dogfrick their way to achieving a college degree but holy shit she would have to be the bottom of her class the way she's behaving. My friend got a job at NASA when he was a student, fricking NASA, and to him it was the adventure of a lifetime because it was fricking NASA and because his job was essentially playing Mythbusters.
Allison hasn't fricking spent nearly enough time appreciating that she's been told God exists/existed. Most people sure, I understand they want their fricking Lord of the Rings adventure but this should mean so much more to Allison than how she's treating it.
Abby should fricking retcon Allison to being an English or Art History major or something truly fricking useless. It fricking bothers me so much that she studied philosophy for at least four years.
Whew lad,
bit early on the trigger there chief. I do agree with your general point but man shit like this is always funny here.
Yeah I feel stupid for pulling the trigger so stupidly.
Her being a business major makes perfect sense now, a minor in philosophy doesn't mean shit. Business majors are if anything, trained to be attack dogs, and Allison is just a stupid one.
The only way to be successful with a business major is to already have contacts in the corporate world or have the skill to snake your way into having contacts.
Allison was too poor for the former and too socially awkward for the latter so I predict after graduation she was going to continue to be a barista until she made management.
Observation changes outcome, and with a machine that's determined the outcome of all things perfectly you've functionally paralyzed all of reality. Zoss had something to say about morons trapped in imaginary cages.
Is she going to stare into the shape of reality again to Anhero?
Plz dont take mommy milkers, they are the only respite in this terrible fishing contest we call life.
>METATRON SOON
i want to see her again
my wife
How do you know that?
I also suspect that Jadis can perfectly see the form of past and present, but only sees the future until a Royal acts upon it, which changes things entirely, but sets up a new future that Jadis once again believes she has always seen perfectly "same as it ever was".
I like this theory. Royalty is so powerful at acting upon reality it retroactively reworks the past.
It's also a thing in Morrowind. When the Tribunal drew power from the heart of Lorkhan and became divine, history was weirdly rewritten to acknowledge them as always being gods, with some contradictions.
Well. Vivec specifically rewrote it.
oh, my mistake then. Still, that means royalty can actually ignore causality there.
The issue is you, like many others, think this is a "frick fate, make your own fate" story, and that Jadis revealing all this is so the story can go "YEAH UNLESS YOU'RE REALLY COOL"
But Zoss himself said fate exists, events are predetermined, not even royalty can escape what IS. Hansa and Zoss both were royalty, they both died because there was no changing that they would die. Zoss could not change the fate of the Wheel because it was always determined that his hand could not right it.
Remember Zoss' words, fate is not a cage except for those who fear it. This is not a story of defying fate and forging your own destiny, this is a story of embracing fate and riding it's wild winds to do what you MUST.
This is exactly why I'm interested in how Allison is going to thwart fate. Like you said, the fixed state of things to come IS stressed as something even Zoss finds to be a constant; Abby said Zoss has "become" the shape the Wheel so perhaps due to some sort of divinely empowered observer effect bullshit "collapsing the waveforms" (I'm sure it'll be framed in more mythic terms) attaining a certain level of power also comes with certain restrictions on the kind of outcomes Zoss can conceive of.
>Jadis knows she's a cute
based
Have you considered that this isn't a story about twarting fate? Fate isn't the enemy here, its not some chain holding Allison back from being the big hero. Have you considered that Allison's fate IS to save the universe? Jadis already saw it as such, Kill Six Billion Demons, Allison is the heir to Zoss' legacy, she who will become Breaker of Infinities.
I'm tired and copying words I'm thinking about too much-what I meant to say was: I'm interested in how Allison is going to snap Jadis out of her fugue if Jadis already knows everything she will do. Let's say you're right for the sake of argument, and Jadis knows Allison is going to save the universe. Does kSBD as a story just end when it reaches the point where Allison resolves the conflict and Jadis can, presumably, die at last? Or does she do something beforehand that-if not throw off the prediction-at least changes Jadis' interpretation of it.
There is no changing the prediction. What is to be IS to be, no matter how royal or divine you might be. The fate Allison has been given may not be so exact as "do this, go here, do this, go there"
A good example I think is Wheel of Time. In Wheel of Time, time is, well, a wheel. Events repeat, ages turn and return and the events, though they may be different in some ways, play out the same. But it does not mean the events are exact, nor does it mean the people tossed around by fate's hand have no will of their own, such as with Rand al'Thor, and the chapter Veins of Gold, where the very fate of the universe rested solely on a single decision of Rand's. Had it tipped one way, the world would of been doomed, but it tipped the other way, the prophecies were fulfilled, the fate of the world set in motion.
Perhaps its something like that, Allison's fate is to set the fate of the Wheel into motion. She could be the central cog thats placed in the machine, though she may be stuck as a part of the machine, the machine keeps turning because she is there.
Very non-royal thinking anon
I'm not saying I know what is going to happen, I'm forming my theory of the story based on context clues. Zoss was royalty, Zoss could not and did not defy fate, even in his own words is that only those who fear fate treat it like a cage. We know for a fact that those who are royalty see causality beyond the here and now, Hansa knew he would die because of his smoking pipe, so he always carried it with him, so that at the time of his appointed death he would be ready. Zoss knew he would die when he traveled to find Allison, it's why he didn't even bother fighting Juggernaut, because his death was already decided, and even then he was royalty, so death was only a minor inconvenience.
My point is so many are looking for ways on how Allison will defy what has been laid out before her, instead of embracing it and forging ahead.
>There is no changing the prediction. What is to be IS to be,
I doubt Abaddpn as much as said this, so all you are going on is Jadis' conviction that it is so. ALL of the Demiurges believe what they are doing is right and perfect, right up until they are destroyed. Mottom was the closest to having any self-doubt. None of them are perfect or they'd have supplanted Zoss a long time ago.
Stop carrying on like you are the writer's assistant.
You're contributing nothing to this conversation you're just shitting uncritically on other people's ideas.
Ideas should be stated as conjecture, not phrased as statements of fact.
That doesn't truck at all with what Jadis is laying down.
To embrace or defy is still a choice, and the existence of Jadis implies that there is no choice, because it's already made, you just don't know it because you haven't seen it. Jadis has. Nothing matters because there are no stakes. Success or failure is already decided. The end is written into the beginning.
It's the discussion from the last thread all over again where people continually misunderstand that Jadis' existence as an omniscient being intrinsically and instantly invalidates the volition of everybody else in the entire setting. She is quite literally incompatible with a universe in which free will is a thing. Abbadon has confirmed, 100%, that Jadis is capital O Omniscient.
I honestly have no idea how he is going to write himself out of this without it being a huge cop-out.
Omniscience doesn't intrinsically violate free will. If I know you're going to order a pepperoni pizza for dinner tonight and you do, you still decided to order a pizza. Foreknowledge of the choice you're going to make doesn't remove your culpability for that choice.
>nothing matters because there are no stakes
Even for Jadis, it's wrong to think "nothing matters because the future is already written." Rather, "everything matters because the future happens because I do what I do and everyone else does what they do." Separately, knowing you'll enjoy a delicious meal on October 12, 2034 doesn't make the meal any less delicious or your enjoyment any less real.
There are people who are genuinely less satisfied by things if they know about them in advance. People crying over spoilers is one example.
The level of satisfaction is predetermined in a deterministic setting. By definition, knowing it in advance changes nothing.
For am omniscient, there are experiences that are enjoyable regardless of foreknowledge (e.g., delicious meal, great sex, cool summer breeze). For the experiences that foreknowledge would seem to dampen, there was never any possibility of not having foreknowledge, so nothing was really dampened, was it?
I think that at the point you get the omniscience, you don't see any "enjoyable future", that's one of the point.
There are absolutely still stakes. You're misunderstanding the sheer breadth of fate's weave. It's not like Google maps where it goes "follow line A then go to station B and then embark at C" thats a human perspective that only thinks of forwards and backwards.
Fate can be so much more blurry, so much more vast in it's tangle. Was Allison fated to survive against Incubus because Maya was fated to step in and stop him? Or was that simply one branch of Allison's fate? Could Allison have died at the battle of Jagganoth and still fulfilled her fate? Possibly. Does Jadis see the whole of fate as single threads running from one person to the future, or is it a complex web of lines crisscrossing, and Jadis is simply tracing the lines as Allison rides along them?
People treat fate and destiny like it's some great evil, or that it's existence invalidates character choice, but they have no road map to lead them to their destination, even if the path is already determined, it's their own feet that carry them that way.
>People treat fate and destiny like it's some great evil, or that it's existence invalidates character choice, but they have no road map to lead them to their destination, even if the path is already determined, it's their own feet that carry them that way.
Right, fate is not a cage except for those who fear it. You will do what you will do, for the reasons you do it. To be concerned with the ultimate result of your actions is to cling to victory.
To Cut you have to remove your past and future selves as useless hangers on and focus only on the present moment. Royalty knows that it is the act itself that matters, not the outcome.
I'm really more curious to see how Jadis rules 1/7th of creation more than anything. We know that Jag builds his into a military camp, Incubus wallows in decadent filth and dependence, Gog infiltrates hers on every level, Mottom's is a consoomer empire, Solomon a perfect utopia reflecting the greatness that is Solomon and Mammon as some sorta banking ponzi scheme.
But what influence does Jadis exert over all of her worlds?
She's got her technopriests to interpret her will.
Yeah but all of them have their acolytes surrounding them. I'm interested in what her will IS.
I SUPPOSE she got exposed to the machine, gained omniscience, and used THAT to win a key, (because she's destined to) and rules 1/7 because that's what she does...very Dr. Manhattan-esque? But all of the 7 flavor their worlds through their natures and desires (though we never really see Mammon's worlds, just his retreat). What are Jadis' worlds like?
And if you really think about it, most if not all of the Demiurges seem trapped in the same "Inevitable Fate" trap that Jadis is in, it's not unique to her, she just knows more details and the inevitable course of them. None of the other 6 had the will to break out of their traps.
We see her with the key before she got glassed and she got glassed the moment she used it.
I just wanted to drop in and say that I haven't stopped making edits. I've just been waiting to see where this plot point is going before I hard commit to a new gag. Have a sample of whats cooking, with more to come in the future. See you then.
lmao most excellent
>No Loafing Sign
Ol' loafy? Or the one that's been squished, skewed, and turned all around?
Frightened of change? But what can exist without it? What’s closer to nature’s heart? Can you take a hot bath and leave the firewood as it was? Eat food without transforming it? Can any vital process take place without something being changed?
Can’t you see? It’s just the same with you-and just as vital to nature.
Does predeterminism matter if you are deliberately ignorant of it?
Is Jadis better at precognition then Mrs Cake?
You know, there's no guarantee Jadis has to tell the truth all the time either - if she sees herself lying about the future, she will do so.
But that's much more infuriating, since there's no way you can prove someone isn't a prophecy zombie and just foresaw everything you did and never told you in advance.
Since Jag is invincible, he may be able to kill Metatron and his angel hordes. Perhaps this angel war is what Jag is doing now that the threat of the Pact is broken.
Doubt it. METATRON seems like a being even potential stronger than Zoss at his height. There was a theory that went around that he intentionally lost to Zoss to bind him to The Wheel
>Angels want order
>What better order than forcing the same events to happen over and over while the one who broke the original order is forced to maintain it.
Pure. Infertile.
It all makes sense now.
Pure, infertile, no growth, no change
Frozen in a piece of amber
A wheel that spins, repeating, but going nowhere
It must be broken
Jadis knew you'd say that
Oh yeah, but can she see why kids love the taste of Cinnamon Toast Crunch?
Yes.
>It must be broken
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't everything in KSBD generally following the Hindu cycle of the universe?
First Part: 1 single god
Second Part: many gods who create the universe
Third Part: humanity grows decadent, and everything decays
Final Part: the universe is destroyed only to be remade again in the new cycle
can't wait to see Salmonella again, even if it's just to confirm he's dead
It's almost certain Metatron is playing Jagganoth by being either the true power behind the resets or at least the being who engineered them and THINKS he's still in charge of them. The real question is whether Jagganoth's methodology for killing him would actually work on a being that exists outside of space and time.
Abby has said on the tumblr that ultimately Metatron is just a conceited creature of a dead world and Zoss is Royalty. But Royalty =/= powerlevels in a quantitative superiority sense so it may not be as simple as that.
https://killsixbilliondemons.tumblr.com/post/178461713285/did-zoss-use-ki-rata-or-did-zoss-use-something
It really depends on how /sincere/ the act of torturing dem names out of Metatron was. Either Zoss was baited into something that has somehow restricted his options, or Metatron is in deep cope about getting his ass beat despite his divine knowledge.
https://killsixbilliondemons.tumblr.com/post/167028922240/if-metatron-could-simply-speak-away-life-on
Oh hey, I found the thing i was originally going to post with
I miss when Abby would tell us fun things over on his tumblr. I know it got aggravating for him over time with all the power level questions but still, was fun while it lasted.
Yeah, I mean it's understandable because we're getting into the endgame where there's probably NOTHING being asked or to talk about other than spoilers, or obscure lore questions he'd be mostly freestyling on.
https://killsixbilliondemons.tumblr.com/post/159830930230/so-is-evolution-a-lie-in-this-multiverse-or-does
https://killsixbilliondemons.tumblr.com/post/160486351875/theres-a-lot-of-references-to-the-law-in-the
https://killsixbilliondemons.tumblr.com/post/153940053680/are-himself-and-metatron-on-the-same-level-of
But hey while I'm at it, I also dug up the enigmatic stuff about Metatron, Himself and being roughly as powerful, nearly no-bullshit divine beings in a world deprived of them and crippled to some extent as a result.
>comes back after a long break
>I ask a tangential power level question
>he sarcastically responds and doesn’t answer anymore questions
my bad guys
He moved to his discord for that sorta q&a (where he is similarly aggravated explaining that invincible means invincible and omniscient means omniscient kek)
I hate that he's moved it to discord because its harder to search there and its not as fun to wander through like it is on his old tumblr.
Abaddon has stated that if it weren't for the Old Law hammered into his very soul, METATRON could annihilate all life on Throne with but a word. He's far beyond both Zoss and Jag, even as an actual cripple.
>He's far beyond both Zoss and Jag, even as an actual cripple.
What? Zoss is the REASON he's all cripped up and stick with pins. Zoss beat an army of lesser gods and greater angels.
I don't think he means crippled in the sense of body but that he's so adherent to the old law that his sheer reality ending might is bound in a way that cannot be undone.
Its like his arms and legs are bound and all he can move freely are his two pinkies.
And he still was practically impossible to defeat.
It's heavily implied he jobbed on purpose to ensnare Zoss
>jobbed on purpose
He's paralyzed; Zoss fricked him up. You think he's faking that?
No, but being willing to allow yourself to be paralyzed to exert subtle but unassailable control over your enemy and all his latch-key kids is pretty metal.
Abaddon has directly stated that Metatron (and Himself) operate entirely beyond space and time in ways we fundamentally cannot comprehend. Metatron was not "beaten" by Zoss in the same way you cannot beat the author of a story because they exist beyond the limitations of the words on the page. Metatron's physical body does not matter at all on a level beyond even the other angels, and by 'crippling' him, Zoss only ended up trapping himself in Metatron's monomyth along with everyone and everything else.
Metatron's only truly crippled in the sense that he cannot erase everything on the Wheel himself to leave a silent infertile void of nothingness and needs intermediaries to do his work instead.
Throne is the hub of the Wheel. If it was entirely lost, the Wheel would likely break apart into literal nothingness.
Also, Throne is just a big city. It's not even solar-system level destruction. I think you've really conflated Metatron into a greater degree of omnipotence than he actually has. He got curb-stomped and is lying in a puddle of his own piss from the last Royal he ran afoul of.
It is the center of the universe though and seems quite large
>Also, Throne is just a big city.
Throne is the hubcap of the wheel. Think what happens to a wheel if you destroy its hubcap.
You expose the axle?
Katarena donlan confirmed for future demiurge
>STOP
>STOP
Now I kind of want to see Allison edited into the STOP IT Superman meme.
>STOP
Based. I've been saying this about this comic for years.
Feels like you've all already litigated it by this point, but I must say. It's a really fricking stupid idea to the youtuber thing of early release for patrons on a webcomic. This shit lives and dies on word of mouth and bifurcating it would be a death sentence for the unestablished and for the established still can't be doing ANY good.
>you've all already litigated it by this point
Yeah, and we concluded that any discussion in any community will either be in-line with the free weekly release OR the Patreon release shared and spoiled. And so the only relevant thing to you as the reader and person discussing this story each week is whether you want to discuss this comic with one type of community or the other. And if you're having issues because you want to engage with two different communities, that's your problem as an established reader and a new reader wouldn't have that problem they only have to choose what community they want to engage with.
So why the frick are you re-litigating the issue when you ought to know that there's no grounds to b***hing unless you have a problem that doesn't have any valid reason for everyone else or the author should accommodate for you. And we can all agree that if the author does this for financial gain then that ought to justify all the inconvenience you or we experience especially when the problem is simply having to wait an extra fricking week in the worst possible situation.
Well if it makes you feel any better he's now burned through his buffer, so now the patreon posts will only be a day or two early instead of a week.
Did he actually say we had burned through it? Shit that was fast.
Did anyone else realize that in the first page Jadis is repeating the alt-text from the last few pages?
She's seeing beyond the boundaries of the page.
She asian.
She just reads the comic right to left.
I'm still mad we never got that Zoss porn.
I'm annoyed that of all the girls that could've gotten porn, it was the meme bug girl. Not Mottom, not Gog, not Jadis. At least we kind of got that with 000001 before the redraw.
I may be a straight femanon but even I want to see Gog porn.
Based, I just want to enjoy clowngirl porn that's not of fricking Harley. Although I wouldn't mind if Abby just drew her FULL biomass, because then it would appeal to me in other ways by being-
-shit, I can't think of another impossibly vast, worm based hive queen other than the main antagonist of Biomega. No, Kerrigan doesn't count. For anything. Starcraft 2 ruined Kerrigan and the Zerg harder than going to comics ruined Harley Quinn, which is really saying something.
I just want to see it out of pure morbid curiosity, you know with Gog it's gotta be weird. And yes on everything you said about Harley, which is a sad state but here we are.
>Starcraft 2 ruined Kerrigan and the Zerg harder than...
It's almost staggering that Metzen, the man responsible for all of Blizzard's properties' lore was also the man in charge when they all went to utter shit.
Imagine destroying not one but three worlds. Warcraft, Starcraft, and Diablo started good and could have been great. Then as the world expanded they went to absolute shit.
I’m pretty sure he decided he was a troony in that timeframe.
You forgot savathun
Right. Right, her. Okay she hasn't been ruined to Kerrigan levels because that's a fricking hard achievement, but I'm getting real sick of this THE LUCENT HIVE AREN'T SO DIFFERENT FROM GUARDIANS crap the game is pushing. Especially right after Savathun herself literally tried to kill you, only to be reduced to a glorified holocron spewing enigmatic lines. Frick you bungie, b***h is NOT a misunderstood tragic heroine. b***h is literally responsible for the genocide of entire races over millions of years.
There is no way to redeem the Hive, and any comparison between them and Guardians is incredibly forced.
Dude the moral of the entire last season was basically "The fact that there may be good in the Lucent Hive doesn't excuse the fact that they're still monsters who want to kill us all." Saladin literally had a cutscene where he straight up says that mercy to an enemy cannot come at the cost of mercy for their victims. If anything the player base seems to be the one pushing the "Lucent Hive are the same as the Warlords" angle more than Bungie is.
The story does seem to be leading towards an eventual alliance with Savathun's Hive but it's pretty clear we're not going to end up all buddy buddy with her like we are with Caital or Mithrax. She want's to live, we want to live, and the Witness wants both of us to die, that's the only reason Humanity would work with the Hive.
>Dude
There's a lorebit about a Lucent Hive refusing to kill something even while it's Ghost urges it to. And fricking Crow can't shut up about how he feels THEY'RE JUST LIKE HIM or whatnot.
>But in-game, someone just told you-
And that's great and all, but I can't shake the impression that someone in Bungie is pushing for sympathetic Lucent Hive. Just like how Destiny is STILL pretending Mara is any kind of mastermind even though objectively she has done nothing but lose, lose, lose, claim it was all just as planned, given you more quests and then lose some more while accomplishing nothing except making random characters fellate her
>The story does seem to be leading towards an eventual alliance with Savathun's Hive
And that's fricking stupid. Oryx and his lot sure as hell didn't want to die, and we showed them no mercy.
>And fricking Crow can't shut up about how he feels THEY'RE JUST LIKE HIM or whatnot.
And Crow is also portrayed as fricking up massively due to that belief. There's literally zero sympathy in the story for Crow's actions, everyone agrees he screwed up and is just projecting his insecurities over Uldren onto the Hive.
>And that's great and all, but I can't shake the impression that someone in Bungie is pushing for sympathetic Lucent Hive.
There's a difference between being sympathetic towards someone and forgiving them. The Lucent Hive are going through a race wide existential crisis, there's some genuine pathos there. Doesn't mean they aren't still genocidal monsters that don't deserve so much as the time of day from humanity.
>Then whats the point of anything?
>Nothing
Sweet, when nothing matters, everything matters. Its time to play flip the wheel.
Zenos pls
>And so the wheel turns again.
I think reality in KSBD is just Yisun increasingly compartmentilizing himself since that's the only way to have ''new'' experiences when you're essentially a Boltzmann brain. The reason Royalty exists and magic is about lying to reality is Yisun-fragments unknowingly tapping into their authorship. But Jadis has gone and done the inverse, instead of vibing with her self and becoming the author she vibed with the Wheel and became the script.
>Yisun increasingly compartmentilizing himself
So Yisun making a bunch of tulpas to talk to, kek.
People never go, 'So what will I do in five seconds?' and then just *not* do whatever the person says you'll do. Presumably the precog will say, "I saw you do that OTHER thing you did instead of my prediction"?
How would you write this so that Jadis truly is always right? Does she see the alpha timeline and all the responses that Allison does in response?
Like He Who Remains or the Architect from the Matrix, basically.
You're still misunderstanding.
That example doesn't actually prove anything. Jadis is fated to say something, you are fated to do something, but Jadis doesn't care about being right on the level that you are considering, because she already knows you're going to do the opposite of what she says. She's only saying it because it's in the script. There are no timelines, there's no branching paths. Everything is going to happen as it is going to happen, and Jadis knows all of it.
Jadis starts describing your thought process of intending to defy the prediction, and this continues in a feedback loop until you run away or die of insanity
At least the power level questions gave us fun units of measurement like giga-Gokus and hexa-Yamchas.
holy trips slay all demons and dispel falsehoods of humble divinity
Metatron's actions make perfect sense from the angels' point of view. Angels are the protector race, and what better way to protect the universe but to find a way to keep it stable forever?
>nihilism can’t be true because it makes people sad
I’m not even a nihilist but that’s a dumb ass argument
>Your fiction is more stupid than my fiction because it’s less popular and makes me sadder
Absolute STATE of MCUkeks
Christ is simply not true
Sorry but I don't care that a Roman citizen did some parlor tricks, there's probably like 3 million of the dickheads that did that and we're not worshiping them.
Have six billion demons died yet?
So far Allison has killed one.
Statistically Jaggs army has probably killed 6 billion demons by now.
I sometimes wonder if the trend of people LARPing on Cinemaphile as christians only to wind up being so beaten down by life they unironically end up converting as a cope is similar to how people mocking Carol on Cinemaphile evolved into people unironically simping for her.
>People having morals is a LARP
Be less online for frick's sake... 90% of America is still Christian.
Half of those are not true Christians.
That is literally not a single person on Earth that is unanimously accepted as a true Christian.
So go wild, is that it? No shit that nobody is good enough to be accepted as a true Christian. That's why you strive to be better at it. Most people in ~~*modern year*~~ would rather sit on their ass and blame anyone but themselves for all their problems. A very small percentage of any race is true royalty.
Not for some time
Consider that Christians and Muslims sort of worship the same god(s) but also don't. Christians do believe Muslims will go to hell if they don't convert and vice-versa. One of them MUST be wrong. Now consider that I don't like either group and I know enough about history to know they are both violent ideologies. Keeping all of this in mind, why is the Christian god the real one and all the others are fake? Remember, the point here is to convince me, not to use rhetoric tricks to win over gullible morons that stumble across our shitposts.
Consider that anon is also peddling his holier than thou prattle while posting on an imageboard about cartoons and comics, in a thread written by a man who has made entire folders' worth of fat fetish art
Roko's Basilisk
Pascal's mugging
nta, but your premise relies on rather narrow interpretations of either religion and presents them as monolithic entities. Even within individual sects, there can be great variance. Now you could criticize that in and of itself. How can institutions that are so heterogeneous claim to represent whole cosmic truths? But that's a whole conversation on its own.
does it matter if there are disagreements within christianity or islam if either religion at one point in time or another decides to raid your town and forcibly convert everyone? A monolithic religion is not worse than a faction when it comes to genocidal behavior. And I really could care less about the "good ones" who just say not all muslims or not all christians. Frick off with that shit.
Blaming large, heterogeneous groups of people for the extreme actions of particular sub-factions or individuals is rarely productive. We've seen how that sort of thinking pans out in the real world many times.
Please circle back with this. I originally asked why the christian god is real vs other gods. Absolutely no one has ever been able to approach this in good faith. Instead I get deflection like your post. I can blame an entire group of people for anything if that entire group of people has a policy of proselytizing people that don't really care or even want to be proselytized. Has there ever been a muslim or christian doctrine/sect that DIDN'T want to convert everyone else? Get real. So here is your chance to convert me; why is your god real vs some other god? No bullshit this time.
Oh don't mistake my intentions. I'm not a Christian myself and I don't care to try to convert you. Your mind is clearly made up anyway. I've just been quibbling with you about some nuances of your use of language and your premise in the hopes that it'll help broaden your thinking a bit.
The only difference between an atheist and a Christian is that the atheist believes in one less god than the other.
if jesus died for all my sins, and I worship another god, then aren't I already forgiven for that anyway, so hedging my bet by worshipping Allah is a better choice logically, right?
Christ's teachings murdered whole regimes of metaphysical thought. Christianity was a metaphysical extinction event, and it dealt potentially irreparable damage to the spiritual awareness of the laymen.
I do recognize and admire its incredible effectiveness as a memetic weapon.
Yes, and it's birthed countless expressions of metaphysical thought as well building upon his teachings. It's a meaningless argument since the same can be said of any great philosopher or spiritualist.
Countless expressions of metaphysical thought within a very narrow set of parameters.
You can write down as many numbers as you like that fit between 1.000001 and 1.000002
You're being deliberately dismissive of the breadth of thought that's come out of explicitly Christian contexts. And again, I fail to see how your words don't hold true for most any philosophy or religion. How much independent thought did Plato brutally smother in the crib by the propagation of his ideas?
How about the philosophy that can't come out of Christianity because Christianity literally destroyed/opposed those philosophies? Oh right, those are all evil/pagan/satanic so we didn't need them. Thanks for that.
The neat thing about pre-christian european gods is that while they were petty and cruel, they were also relatable and their fatalism and hero stories resonate with me in ways that Christianity never could. I can relate to Hercules or Thor because they try to do good yet fail in the process. I can actually learn from their mistakes and avoid that in the future because of the impression the stories made on me. But your christ is perfect. I can't relate to that at all.
>How about the philosophy that can't come out of Christianity because Christianity literally destroyed/opposed those philosophies?
Welcome to religion?
>The neat thing about pre-christian european gods is that while they were petty and cruel, they were also relatable and their fatalism and hero stories resonate with me in ways that Christianity never could. I can relate to Hercules or Thor because they try to do good yet fail in the process. I can actually learn from their mistakes and avoid that in the future because of the impression the stories made on me. But your christ is perfect. I can't relate to that at all.
How much you relate to the central figures of your religion is a valid metric and it's fair that you value it highly. But there's other metrics by which you can evaluate a religion, obviously.
>The neat thing about pre-christian european gods is that while they were petty and cruel, they were also relatable and their fatalism and hero stories resonate with me in ways that Christianity never could. I can relate to Hercules or Thor because they try to do good yet fail in the process. I can actually learn from their mistakes and avoid that in the future because of the impression the stories made on me. But your christ is perfect. I can't relate to that at all.
Ahh, a Marvelgay. "my heroes need to be... le morally grey!"
>breadth of thought that's come out of explicitly Christian contexts
Yes, that context is the narrow set of parameters I'm talking about. A kid can do a whole lot with ten legos, never realizing you've hidden a whole bin of them behind a corner.
>How much independent thought did Plato brutally smother in the crib by the propagation of his ideas?
lol
It doesn't matter. I've read the bible and there is no quibbling over this fact; Jesus said the world was going to end. Not in 2000 years, he told people gathered together in a crowd that some of them would live to see his return to earth and the heralding of the end. It's what the scripture says and you have to add your own crazy interpretation to it to claim symbolism or some other meaning. The flawless son of God said the world would end about 2000 years ago and it didn't.Which means a God was wrong about something. Now shower me with cope.
Christ's teachings didn't even make it past his death before they were used by Peter to create a church that exists without input from Christ. That completely differs from how Christ conducted sermon or how he informed his disciples to live.
Which has since then suffered schism a thousand times upon itself until the pieces are unrecognizable from those original teachings and,
as this anon points out. Created a spiritual nuclear bomb that wipes men's souls of any nuance of mysticism or universal understanding. Removing a rich tapestry of unknowable forces with a theology as bland as the crackers at communion.
The teachings of Christ are indeed commendable, if any institution bothered to follow them.
Frick this christcucks vs /r/atheism bullshit. I have a serious question: does Jadis have the biggest tiddies we've seen thus far in the story? Because holy shit
I think Maya's might be bigger maybe?
Maybe, but all of her is bigger.
I'm with
, I think Maya is bigger but she's a big round woman so it's a given. Technically Gog could probably win easily if she wanted to but Gog hasn't shown the willingness to create a star-sized giant clown woman with her merged mass yet.
Gog-agog could have the biggest gog-agogs around if she wanted to, but why form huge booba when she already has such a nice clown ass?
Jesus, Gog as Allison action figures.
>predetermined
>"but what if.."
Panel 8 explains what she is seeing. The movement of everything calculated until the end of time. The firing neurons and chemicals in Allison translated to read what she is thinking. The whole existence is a billiard table with balls bouncing off one another, and she has the equation how it plays out until every ball is pocketed.
Fighting back one's fate or being indecisive, anything of "but what if.." nature is like saying a rube goldberg machine is fighting back against it's purpose.
>*URRRP* WE'RE NOTHING BUT CHEMICALS MORTY WUBBA DUB DUB