Kwannon or Betsy? Who is the "Wonder Woman" of Marvel?

Kwannon or Betsy?
Who is the "Wonder Woman" of Marvel?

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  1. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Someone actually popular and important, so neither of them.

  2. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >"Wonder Woman"
    Storm.
    Storm is the WW of Marvel.
    In terms of powerset I would say Ms.Marvel Carol Danvers is more powerful and hot.

    Betsy is a boring c**t and Kwannon is the body that launched a thousand loads.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Hey the combination of betsy and kwanon's body was great, betsy before that was boring but afterward she got a real personality and role in stories and led to kino like remender's x-force, while afterwards she lost that personality. And kwanon never had one.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Storm doesn't even pass the low bar of "can hold a solo title".

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Anon, Wonder Woman can't hold a solo title.
        They HAVE to consistently publish a WW title or the Marston pervert estate will get their propoganda tool for children back.
        It's an iron clad federal government backed contract.

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Trips of Truth. DC constantly pushes out these crappy selling characters from nearly a century ago to maintain creative rights to them.

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >They HAVE to consistently publish a WW title or the Marston pervert estate will get their propoganda tool for children back.
          That stopped being the case 20+ years ago.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        nobody can, spider-man's alternate universe daughter is still marvel's longest running female solo

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          dazzler got close

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Dazzler started as a solo character and was one for years before being added to the X-Men.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Dazzler started as a solo character and was one for years before being added to the X-Men.

            Dazzler had 43 issues of her solo and 4 issues of Beauty and the Beast and the Graphic Novel which is insane. If you count different runs a lot of female characters have topped that by now but for a consecutive run it's crazy. The only other bronze age title Marvel had with a female protag that lasted longer was Jessica Drew's original title which ran for 50 issues.

            Allison could have been what Jessica or Carol or She-Hulk are today. She could have been a fan-favorite c-lister who occasionally gets thrown a bone and gets a fun solo (or a shitty solo, the pendulum swings both ways). She would probably pop up regularly in Spider-Man titles and have team-ups with various characters. Hell she fought Enchantress like four times in her solo, she could get to go on Asgardian adventures occasionally.

            But by being forcibly inducted into the X-Men against Claremont's wishes she became just another X-Man, and one the main writer didn't care about. So she was just there, the only plot Claremont ever did with her was the stalker from her solo coming back to ruin her life and her flirting with Longshot. When Claremont was forced to take Dazzler he had already created Lila Cheney in New Mutants as his "mutant music artist" character of choice so to him Dazzler was just baggage. But as X-Men books are wont to do she was absorbed into that entire side of the Marvel U and she never came back out. She was written out for most of the 90s and was an intermittent or background member since. Nobody's even tried to have her branch back out to be a general Marvel character rather than just be banished to doing concert scenes in X-Men books occasionally.

            So the question is, is it better to rule in hell and only get to appear once in a blue moon and get your rare shot at a solo or to serve in heaven and get regular appearance but none of them ever matter?

            • 2 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              >the only plot Claremont ever did with her was the stalker from her solo coming back to ruin her life
              IIRC that story was Silvestri's idea, and it saved her from getting killed in the Master Mold/Nimrod story a few months earlier, which had been Claremont's plan.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Nobody even cares about Storm like that. Marvel currently gave her a solo book but we all know that Storm's solo book is going to bomb worse than the continuously rebooted Captain Marvel book.

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Storm is very popular but team characters have a hard time carrying solos. Same deal with Rogue and Wanda. You can find similar examples at DC with the likes of, I don't know, Starfire or Raven. Very popular but tied too stronglh to teama so they always struggle with solos. Wonder Woman was a solo character first which is why she's had longevity.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Nobody's put the effort into giving them a supporting cast or setting apart from their teams, so just throwing them out there solo is hard. Spider-Man became a popular solo because he was built up like that from the start, you have to at least make a token effort of world building and doing something new.

            • 2 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              That's less easy than you think, especially nowadays where characters are a lot more entrenched, pacing is way slower and supporting casts have largely fallen by the wayside in favor of other heroes. To be effective you'd also probably need to keep them from their teams completely so the book seems like its own thing instead of a simple side book.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                I am aware it's difficult. Decompression is one of the worst killers of new books, as you noted. When you spend so many pages on drawn-out confrontations, fights and investigations there's so little room left for subplots and characterization. And it's not like it's a ton of cool fight scene pages either to alleviate this issue.

                But saying it's impossible is reductive and defeatist. Your book is just as likely to be canceled if you just pack it with the same fights you can get in any of the team books so you might as well put the effort in and world build the frick out of it. Be an Immortal Iron Fist or Rainbow Rowell She-Hulk, you'll have a much better chance at being remembered than if you're Captain Marvel run with no supporting cast outside of supers from other books and no setting that matters.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Iron Fist and She-Hulk are primarily solo characters. Again, I don't think you get how much debuting in and being a long time member of a team harms a character's ability to hold a solo. The character's identity is so tied to the team and people usually only care about them in that role. Team characters have a Herculean task in establishing themselves as viable solos. Cable and Wolverine are some of the only ones I can think of who have really done it. Jean's solo will basically fill the cosmic niche and has her completely removed from the X-Men although it's being helmed by one of the crew of interchangeable and substandard female writers from the last few years so I don't expect it to last.

                Which runs into another problem: publishers now are too quick to kill a series instead of switching creatives and seeing what they do. Miller's Daredevil or Starlin's Warlock could never happen in the current environment because the books would have been killed and then relaunched and everyone would just roll their eyes because you told me, by killing the book, that it sucked so why should I care about this relaunched one? If they'd just let books run and not relaunch them when the first issue isn't doing Batman or Spider-Man numbers or when the creative team changes you might be able to make some of these books succeed.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                The Phoenix and Storm titles are gonna be weird because those two are especially firmly entrenched in X-Men lore. Like what the frick even is Jean without summers family bullshit? And Storm is just YAS QUEEN SLAY the character.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Jean is at least tied to the Phoenix Force so she's got a hook to let her do cosmic stuff... and maybe that's where she should stay. Let her meet the Surfer and the concepts, work with the Guardians, whatever. She's actually one of the X-Men who'd have an easier time holding a solo under a half-decent writer.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                That's true. I do hope that however few issues that book gets it doesn't immediately have her come back to earth after the first arc. I was so fricking done with Gillen's Phoenix arc by the end I never want to have more of that shit. if they're gonna use Phoenix just have her be a cosmic heavy hitter and wreck shit.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                I'm interested in Phoenix if only so we can have a Marvel cosmic book

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                The problem, again, is it's Interchangeable Female Writer #3. Not a single difference between Kelley Thompson, Erica Schultz, Stephanie Phillips, Tini Howard and maybe a few I'm forgetting. Only Alyssa Wong and Leah Williams stand out and not for good reasons (Wong's self-inserts, Leah skinwalking Gail Simone as the "tee hee I like writing about strong sexy babes" writer).

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                I would say that Tini Howards is significantly worse than the rest, and Thompson is also worse than the other two
                Schultz and Phillips are 100% interchangeable though.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                The problem, again, is it's Interchangeable Female Writer #3. Not a single difference between Kelley Thompson, Erica Schultz, Stephanie Phillips, Tini Howard and maybe a few I'm forgetting. Only Alyssa Wong and Leah Williams stand out and not for good reasons (Wong's self-inserts, Leah skinwalking Gail Simone as the "tee hee I like writing about strong sexy babes" writer).

                Leah Thompson is by far the standout awful one.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Worse than Tini Howards? No she fricking isn't

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Okay I'll be honest I stopped reading Tini's Betsy shit after 2 issues so i have no idea how bad it got.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >Worse than Tini Howards? No she fricking isn't
                I keep hearing this and I have no idea what she even wrote that was so awful

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Everything she's done with Betsy and Captain Britain as a whole since Krakoa started has been pure shit

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                You're gonna have to give some specific examples of what's so awful

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Tini's biggest sin is being boring. Even if it's a story you feel like you should be excited about, it just flops.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                > make a crossover called X of Swords
                > give everyone a magic sword
                > you think there will be magic swordfights
                > there is one swordfight total

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                All she's got going for her is that she's not unattractive which I suspect is why she keeps getting chances: editors want to frick her. But I think that's a good way of describing her. Her ideas are way more interesting than the actual execution. She somehow took a Catwoman story arc that was a very obvious homage to women in prison exploitation films and somehow made it boring, not sexy, and not filled with erotic pseudo-lesbianism.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                I understand completely. All I'm saying is that a lot of times when they do these "spin out of a team book" solos they don't even try to emulate what makes actual solo characters work. And at that point you may as well just not do it. The previous Storm ongoing attempt was a particularly bad example.

                yes of course you're going to fail. The market is ruthless. But you may as well make a proper attempt and fail than just shoot off another "X-Men book but with fewer X-Men in it" excuse for a solo.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Storm can't Lift a Candle to Wonder Woman, and she didn't have a TV show and Actress that set the bar too high.

      NO ONE AT MARVEL CANT LIFT A CANDLE TO WONDER WOMAN, even with king fricking her as of now and all of the Muh stronk Amazon shit that killed her life as Diana Prince.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Storm was paired with Diana in DC vs. Marvel and Amalgam though so creatives obviously thought so.

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Because Marvel and DC didn't had anyone better and Storm was at her peak popularity thanks to TAS and the vs Games.

          Also, Storm is her own thing.

  3. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    What if its an x-men character its storm.

    I like psylocke but this is silly. Betsy is still in adaptations in the ninja onesuit while kwanon is still obscure lol.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      No one cares about captain britain or whatever the pedo who lezzes out on the reg's name is

      It's all about 90's hot purple haired asian action babe Psylocke.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Its the combo. The japanese especially like "ninja with British accent"

  4. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Neither. Psylocke is a whole better than the sum of its parts thing. Kwannon was interesting in the year or so she was around in Nicieza's run but she had a clear story arc, finished it and died. No reason at all to bring her back beyond woke reasons.

  5. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    At least post the prompt,a sshole

  6. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous
  7. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Kwannon. no question.

    >wonder woman of marvel
    by powerset, it's ms. marvel but she sucks and she's bland

    by storyline, america. but that also sucks

  8. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Kwannon mogs betsys british ass

  9. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Marvel doesn't have a Wonder Woman. Their most popular female characters are Storm, Rogue and probably Wanda but they're tied too strongly to teams. They've never had a big solo female character until the Carol push starting in the 2000s and that's never worked.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      It's obvious why people are saying Wanda is popular, she actually connected with MCU audiences before Doctor Strange 2 happened, but why in 2024 is everyone pretending Storm and Rogue are massively popular?

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        waves and waves of fanart

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Because they are? Rogue is probably as popular with girls as she is with boys too; she's damn near a shoujo heroine. Actually they shouldn't have taken away the flying brick powers either since it provided a good hook. You had a character who was kind of Superman/Supergirlish yet her physical strength was countered by emotional weakness brought on by not being able to touch others. Physically strong, emotionally weak is such a basic concept and getting rid of the Carol powers means she doesn't do much in fights anymore beyond touch people.

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >He thinks kids still care about the X-Men in the 2020s
          It wasn't kids watching X-Men 97, anon. Rogue was popular with girls in the 90s, but the 90s were a long time ago now.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Evolution, the movies, she's popular and you're moronic out of some, I don't know, weird Wonder Woman protectionism.

            • 2 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              >Evolution, the movies
              That's still 20 years ago, and movie Rogue was never particularly popular.

              You're the one being moronic out of some delusion that X-Men is just inherently eternally popular with kids without even having to produce new content kids would see and care about, which they haven't done since Evolution.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >she gets featured in damn near every comic and piece of spinoff material up to the present
                >almost always given important roles in them
                >but she's not popular
                You are dumb as shit.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >You are dumb as shit.
                Yet you're the one who's lost the argument on mainstream normie popularity and backtracked to talking about comics that have an audience in the tens of thousands to try and "prove" who's popular. And even in the low bar of "popular in comics" she's not popular enough to hold a solo book, and attempts never last, she's just a team book character.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                I didn't lose shit, people know who Rogue is and she's popular. You have no argument for her not being popular beyond "CARTOON OLD" and if I wanted to use that argument then I could say that Wonder Woman's TV show is even older.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Ok but 22 year old artists on twitter are still drawing lots and lots of rogues.
                You guys have some autism about reruns not existing.

  10. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Kwannon. Neither can be the Wonder Woman of Marvel. Closest example in terms of power set would be either Captain Marvel (Carol) or Rogue (w/ flying brick powers absorb). Closest example in terms of popularity is debatable.

  11. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >AIslop

  12. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >Kwannon
    Just googled her first appearance in the 90s. Wonder Woman had her show in the 70s

  13. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous
  14. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    The only Marvel characters that can actually hold a solo ongoing is Captain Marvel, Spider-Woman and She-Hulk.
    And honestly i'm not too sure about She-Hulk.

  15. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous
    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >Captain Marvel vol 12 #1 coming next winter!

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >"They tried plenty with Monica."
      Lying son of a b***h

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >Posted years before a half-dozen more attempts at launching Monica including another solo, all of which faceplanted, including trying to siphon Carol's movie popularity which tanked a billion-dollar franchise
        Monicagay please

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >including trying to siphon Carol's movie popularity which tanked a billion-dollar franchise
          Carolgays always come up with the craziest copes

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Brevoort seems to have an impressive talent for sticking his foot in it

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        He's right.

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Except for the fact that Carol doesn't sell

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      You can tell that they tried really hard with Monica because it only took them 40 years to give her a solo series.

  16. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Daughters of the Dragon as a big action book drawing from stuff like Lethal Weapon and Gunsmith Cats, good manga style art, lots of babes, good chemistry between the leads. Not a solo but it'd work.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      The 2000s runs were fun. Probably too cheesecakey to get published now but meh.

  17. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Kwannon's getting a blood hunt one-shot where she kills vampires for 22 pages. Betsy is getting shuffled into team books as Rache's telepath dildo. Kwannon is winning.

  18. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    neither

  19. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    They should've been a couple instead of Betsy and Rachel.

  20. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    the asian

  21. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    She is basically the superior Jean
    why does Marvel gatekeep her?

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Because you post slop.

  22. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Betsy (the Asian-looking british)

  23. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous
    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      I know this is AI Slop, but Psylocke with arm wraps is kino aesthetic.

  24. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous
  25. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    The non Asian

  26. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >Kwannon or Betsy?
    90's Psylocke.
    >Who is the "Wonder Woman" of Marvel?
    Neither? What a silly question. If there's any WW analogue in Marvel it's Captain Marvel, the extremely unlikable overpowered feminist turbodyke version.

  27. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    I'd also argue that Rogue long ago surpassed Storm as the X-Men's most popular female member. Storm's time was the Claremont run but as the '90s started going on Rogue passed her and I don't think has ever really relinquished it no matter how much they force push Storm and jack her off.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      This.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Oh right, I'd say Mystique and Emma are definitely more popular than Storm too.

  28. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Carol Danvers.

  29. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Which one will love me long time

  30. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Maybe if they finally get rid of that yee-yee ass accent they give her and actually age her down she might have a chance.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >yee-yee ass
      Go back to both twitter and 2015

  31. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Psylocke.

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