>Let us go through the Mines of Moria

>Let us go through the Mines of Moria

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  1. 4 days ago
    Anonymous
  2. 4 days ago
    Anonymous

    What was the alternative?

    • 4 days ago
      Anonymous

      Gandalf gets them all killed in an avalanche created by his good friend Sauron-man or they freeze to death.

    • 4 days ago
      Anonymous

      Not waking up a balrog. Gandalf definitely knew about it.

      • 4 days ago
        Anonymous

        Did he? Never read the books but he seemed surprised in the film when it was discovered

        • 4 days ago
          Anonymous

          Film Gandalf is implied to know a Balrog was there, from Saruman's narration. Book Gandalf has no idea a Balrog is down there, he only knows there's something called Durin's Bane but not what it is or if it still exists (he assumes Durin's Bane is long since dead)

          • 4 days ago
            Anonymous

            Gandalf knew about the balrog but there was high chances he would remain sleep if they ever crossed through Moria. But Gandalf didn't want to risk that chance, what's more the mountain was evil and lots of weird things took refuge there. Also in the book Saruman didn't had anything to do with the storm, it was like if the mountain itself was trying to get rid of them

            Which one is it

            • 4 days ago
              Anonymous

              Book Gandalf did not know. Here's proof from the book

        • 4 days ago
          Anonymous

          Gandalf knew about the balrog but there was high chances he would remain sleep if they ever crossed through Moria. But Gandalf didn't want to risk that chance, what's more the mountain was evil and lots of weird things took refuge there. Also in the book Saruman didn't had anything to do with the storm, it was like if the mountain itself was trying to get rid of them

    • 4 days ago
      Anonymous

      The gap of Rohan, which was lead them practically to Saruman's front door

    • 4 days ago
      the chair nerd

      Buy charter tickets from the Iron Mountains.

    • 4 days ago
      Anonymous

      Use the fricking eagles

      • 4 days ago
        Anonymous
    • 4 days ago
      Anonymous

      eagles fgt how new are you?

    • 4 days ago
      Anonymous

      >let the ringbearer decide
      Honestly it such a dick move from Gandalf, not like you can expect Frodo to know there's a giant flaming demon in the cellar of the dwarf colony. Frodo did not have the information to make that call

      • 4 days ago
        Anonymous

        In the books it's basically Gandalf and Aragorn who decide. Aragorn is for going over the mountain and avoiding Moria at all costs. Gandalf secretly discusses Moria with Aragorn in Rivendell and Aragorn hates the idea (because he's been inside Moria before). So they try and fail to go over the mountain.

        Only after this is a failure, does Gandalf tell everyone there's another way: Moria. Aragorn says fine because we nearly died doing my route, I'll follow you in there. Everyone else (except Gimli) hates the idea of going through Moria but they trust Gandalf

    • 4 days ago
      Anonymous

      Literally the fricking eagles.

      • 4 days ago
        Anonymous

        not an option for reasons that have been articulated over and over

      • 4 days ago
        Anonymous

        I'll humor you
        >The Eagles are extremely distant and cold creatures, they don't really care about the affairs of men or the world. Gandalf can't just summon them at will, it's like a really heavy favor he has to call in
        >They are just as susceptible to the corruption of the Ring as any other being
        >The whole point was to SNEAK into Mordor so that Sauron doesn't realize they intend to destroy the ring. He has scouts and magic birds and shit watching everywhere, they would be spotted immediately

    • 4 days ago
      Anonymous

      Use the fricking eagles

      Why didn´t Frodo just use the fricking plane?

    • 4 days ago
      Anonymous

      Go to the fricking Grey Havens and get a boat to Gondor. There is zero reason why this wouldn't work.

      its that easy bro

      has anyone given a good counter argument against why the black route wasn't a good idea?

      Carn Dum, Gundabad, the Ettenmoors, and the Forodwaith were full of orcs and trolls.

      why couldn't they have just gone this way? A huge portion of the journey would've been in friendly Gondor or other friendly lands allied to Gondor

      Dunland were Saruman's allies

      • 4 days ago
        Anonymous

        >Go to the fricking Grey Havens and get a boat to Gondor.
        Corsairs were patrolling the shorelines of Middle Earth.

        • 4 days ago
          Anonymous

          The elves were the best seafarers in the world. They could outsail some umbar corsairs.

          • 4 days ago
            Anonymous

            There are also sea monsters that would come after the ring.

            • 4 days ago
              Anonymous

              >There are also sea monsters that would come after the ring.
              There's no example of this being true.

              • 4 days ago
                Anonymous

                in the books Gandalf explicitly mentions that the oceans are full of dark and foul ancient creatures who would be massively drawn to the ring

              • 4 days ago
                Anonymous

                apart from that massive octopus that attacks them in the first movie of course

      • 4 days ago
        Anonymous

        >get a boat to Gondor
        Congratulations you reached Gondor. Denethor now takes your Ring for safe-keeping and tries to use it against Sauron. You've now destroyed Gondor, and Sauron knows exactly where the Ring is and he's coming for it

        • 4 days ago
          Anonymous

          This. Men of high ambition are super-susceptible to the Ring's influence, which is why their initial path was avoiding all major strongholds of Men.

        • 4 days ago
          Anonymous

          Why would you go to Denethor? You could resupply at Osgiliath, keep a low profile, and go straight up the path to Shelob's lair.

          • 4 days ago
            Anonymous

            >Why would you go to Denethor? You could resupply at Osgiliath, keep a low profile, and go straight up the path to Shelob's lair.
            You don't think Denethor would figure out what you're up to? The fellowship showing up in Gondor would cause a huge commotion, with Aragorn (heir of Isildur) AND Boromir arriving, along with Gandalf. Denethor also has a Palantir and Numenorian foresight. You arrive in Gondor, get arrested by Denethor's men (just as Faramir arrested Frodo and Sam and interrogated them), he finds the ring and takes it.

            Frodo just got extremely lucky (act of God, as usual) that he was found by Faramir, the only captain in Gondor who could just about resist the ring. Denethor isn't letting you take the ring into Mordor

            • 4 days ago
              Anonymous

              [...]
              In fact, even if you tried to hide what you were doing when you arrived in Gondor, Boromir is 100% reporting to his father what is going on and what the plan is. Remember Denethor sent Boromir to the Council of Elrond. So he knows

              The palantirs communicate with each other, Denethor knew about Aragorn from the one captured at Orthanc. Boromir might go to his father that's true. But its also true Aragorn could take Denethor's position if he wanted to.

              Also the Fellowship didn't know about the path of Cirith Ungol, only Gollum did.

              Gandalf knew about it, and so did Faramir

          • 4 days ago
            Anonymous

            >Why would you go to Denethor? You could resupply at Osgiliath, keep a low profile, and go straight up the path to Shelob's lair.
            You don't think Denethor would figure out what you're up to? The fellowship showing up in Gondor would cause a huge commotion, with Aragorn (heir of Isildur) AND Boromir arriving, along with Gandalf. Denethor also has a Palantir and Numenorian foresight. You arrive in Gondor, get arrested by Denethor's men (just as Faramir arrested Frodo and Sam and interrogated them), he finds the ring and takes it.

            Frodo just got extremely lucky (act of God, as usual) that he was found by Faramir, the only captain in Gondor who could just about resist the ring. Denethor isn't letting you take the ring into Mordor

            In fact, even if you tried to hide what you were doing when you arrived in Gondor, Boromir is 100% reporting to his father what is going on and what the plan is. Remember Denethor sent Boromir to the Council of Elrond. So he knows

          • 4 days ago
            Anonymous

            Also the Fellowship didn't know about the path of Cirith Ungol, only Gollum did.

          • 4 days ago
            Anonymous

            >You could resupply at Osgiliath
            Osgiliath is basically a ruin under military occupation by either Gondor or Sauron depending on what point of the story you're at.

    • 4 days ago
      Anonymous

      take out a high interest loan with the eagles to get them to carry the fellowship across the mountain range, the eagles were cryptojews that would only join the war once it was already won. the indexes state this

    • 4 days ago
      Anonymous

      The Goon Caves of Gondor

    • 4 days ago
      Anonymous

      Gap of Rohan, which they first tried to take just to get turned away by Sarumon's crow patrols.

    • 4 days ago
      Anonymous

      Nothing
      Saruman knew exactly what they were doing and exactly how to bottleneck them. It was either risk Moria or walk through Isengard, which would have gotten him the Ring.

  3. 4 days ago
    Anonymous

    Why didnt they just get a lift over the mountains from the eagles???

  4. 4 days ago
    Anonymous

    Why didn't they just sail west? They weren't flat earth conspiratards, were they?

  5. 4 days ago
    Anonymous

    >o that haunted mine with an immortal shadow demon in it that a bunch of dwarves traveled too 60 years ago and we’re never heard from again?
    >yeah that’s the perfect idea I bet they’ll even have a feast for us when we arrive
    Was Gimli moronic?

    • 4 days ago
      Anonymous

      They had no idea that a demon had been unearthed, and the last they knew his relatives took it over and hadn't called in a long time. Dwarf clans by that point really weren't social.

    • 4 days ago
      Anonymous

      news travels slow in dorf lands

      • 4 days ago
        Anonymous

        Sure, but didn't Dáin see the Balrog when he peered past the gates after the battle where Azog wad killed? That was the ultimate reason the dwarves didn't go any further, plus the fact that the other dward clans couldn't be bothered. Didn't he tell anyone and did news not get around?

        • 4 days ago
          Anonymous

          I don’t think anyone short of Gandalf in this age would know what a Balrog was. I’m not sure even Galadriel ever was face to face with one. There were seven-ish demons almost as powerful as Sauron

          • 4 days ago
            Anonymous

            Legolas freaked out when the Balrog was approaching in the books, even in the film he looked like he was about to shit himself. Clearly the elves maintained memories of Balrogs within their lore, so why wouldn't the dwarves since they had the most recent dealing with Balrogs? The greatest dwarf kingdom ever lost, you'd think they would keep that story in their lore, too. But then again, dwarves might not have been so keen on recordkeeping as the elves were. They did forget their own language, so maybe they were illiterate. Or they could just be really dumb.

            • 4 days ago
              Anonymous

              I don’t think he really knows what it is, elves are just part of the spirit realm and probably can feel the presence of what is close to being a god of hate and fire

              • 4 days ago
                Anonymous

                >Ai, ai! wailed Legolas. "A Balrog! A Balrog has come!"
                He had to have known about them.

              • 4 days ago
                Anonymous

                Wasn't his dad alive during the War of Wrath?

    • 4 days ago
      Anonymous

      Gimli in the book knew his kin had probably perished but still wanted to investigate

      Sure, but didn't Dáin see the Balrog when he peered past the gates after the battle where Azog wad killed? That was the ultimate reason the dwarves didn't go any further, plus the fact that the other dward clans couldn't be bothered. Didn't he tell anyone and did news not get around?

      they were expecting something spooky, but not a literal god/maiar
      its like expecting to fight the headless horseman, but then its really one of the 4 horsemen of the apocalypse

  6. 4 days ago
    Anonymous

    its that easy bro

    • 4 days ago
      Anonymous

      has anyone given a good counter argument against why the black route wasn't a good idea?

      • 4 days ago
        Anonymous

        The Sneedwood *lves would smell the ring and come get it. They're buttholes and furthermore they're high level stealth archers.

        • 4 days ago
          Anonymous

          I know you're meme-ing, but Legolas is literally their prince. He wouldn't allow the Fellowship to be harmed.

      • 4 days ago
        Anonymous

        It's the equivalent of travelling from Wyoming to Florida by way of the Northwest Territories of Canada.

        • 4 days ago
          Anonymous

          and?

          • 4 days ago
            Anonymous

            >and?
            And their arch-foe is preparing a conventional war to blitz the entire continent, and the whole time, his artifact ring is poisoning their brains.

      • 4 days ago
        Anonymous

        The forodwaith is super cold and frozen so it’d suck to go that way, you’d be traveling really close to Mt. Gundabad which has been taken over by orcs, and you’d have to travel near the lonely mountain which is being sieged by Easterlings during the events of LOTR

      • 4 days ago
        Anonymous

        It never goes to rivendell which is where the hobbits were originally going to drop it off. So no rivendell means they never learn about needing to destroy it and they never meet the fellowship.

      • 4 days ago
        Anonymous

        How are you expecting to cross that huge expanse of empty wilderness?

        • 4 days ago
          Anonymous

          Walking, I suppose

          • 4 days ago
            Anonymous

            Without options to resupply? There doesn't appear to be anywhere you can reprovision or even get water. It's like walking across the desert.

      • 4 days ago
        Anonymous

        Walking right under Sauron's kitchen window

        • 4 days ago
          Anonymous
      • 4 days ago
        Anonymous

        fellowship starts near the end of september, they set out from Rivendell on dec 25. black route would've been cold as frick in january/feb

    • 4 days ago
      Anonymous

      Why did it take frodo and sam two movies to cover a third of the ground traversed by the fellowship?

      • 4 days ago
        Anonymous

        the same reason you can't see the speeding car and the end of the block driving towards you until its in your front yard. sure if you are looking you'll see it. but are you always looking?

        • 4 days ago
          Anonymous

          What the frick are you talking about homosexual

      • 4 days ago
        Anonymous

        Two towers is like a couple of weeks long in universe, while fellowship is months.

      • 4 days ago
        Anonymous

        they were going in circles

      • 4 days ago
        Anonymous

        They arrive to the gates of Mordor shortly after Two Towers begins in both the books and movies. Then in the movies they spend the rest captured by evil greedy self-centered daddy issues Faramir before he lets them go far from Cirith Ungol. In the books they come across Faramir and he quickly deduces that they have the enemy's weapon but he wants nothing to do with it, and he invites them to stay over for a few days, hang around and eat, then gives them enough food to last them to the end of the journey and they reach Cirith Ungol and beat Shelob at the end of Two Towers. That whole moronic segment about Gollum tricking Frodo into believing that Sam ate all of their food doesn't happen. Then in Return of the King, Frodo and Sam reach Mt. Doom and destroy the ring in the first third of the book, they spent a week crossing all of Mordor and it was pretty uneventful since Sauron emptied the whole place.

      • 4 days ago
        Anonymous

        Hobbits have short legs and the rest of the Fellowship were mounted for much of their journeys. Merry & Pippin rode orcs, ents and horses after they got separated. Sam and Frodo walked the entire way until the eagles carried them back to Gondor.

    • 4 days ago
      Anonymous

      has anyone given a good counter argument against why the black route wasn't a good idea?

      >has anyone given a good counter argument against why the black route wasn't a good idea?
      Time. Sauron was gathering all the forces in the East and South to attack Gondor. Destroying the Ring was literally a race against the clock. The black route would have taken the Fellowship 4-5 times as long just by distance alone, never mind however much time would have been spent dealing with all the enemies they came across there.

      • 4 days ago
        Anonymous

        The forodwaith is super cold and frozen so it’d suck to go that way, you’d be traveling really close to Mt. Gundabad which has been taken over by orcs, and you’d have to travel near the lonely mountain which is being sieged by Easterlings during the events of LOTR

        what about Ered Mithrin and the segment between Mirkwood and Ered Lithui? Anything there?

        • 4 days ago
          Anonymous

          Let us just presume that Elrond and the immortal elves and the rest took into consideration the the various obstacles and dangers of every possible route, and chose the one that seemed most reasonable.

          • 4 days ago
            Anonymous

            Let's instead presume that Elrond was played by Forest Whitaker and the elves weren't as wise as they cracked them up to be so they sent them through Ered Mithrin and through Dagorlad. What would they encounter on the way?

            • 4 days ago
              Anonymous

              The biggest collection of Orcs short of Mordor, squatting in Dorf Fortresses?

              • 4 days ago
                Anonymous

                I don't think there were any orcs there

              • 4 days ago
                Anonymous

                >Dagorlad was the location of the Battle of Dagorlad, fought there between Sauron's forces and the Last Alliance of Elves and Men at the end of the Second Age. The bodies of the dead decayed as normal, but over time part of the field became a wetland, the Dead Marshes, where the images of the fallen could be seen. Later, in the Third Age, the Dagorlad was the site of many battles between Gondor and various Easterling armies. The countless battles of two ages left Dagorlad as a devastated wasteland, contaminated and unhealthy, with sumps of poisonous slick and mounds of scorched earth.

                Ered Mithrin is full of dragons.

      • 4 days ago
        Anonymous

        >Destroying the Ring was literally a race against the clock.
        then why didnt they start sooner so they had more time?

        • 4 days ago
          Anonymous

          They didn’t know if it would work and their main expert on rings is lying to them to stall for time while he tries to make his own one ring/find Sauron’s

          • 4 days ago
            Anonymous

            Plus the whole debate on who would do it in the first place

    • 4 days ago
      Anonymous

      why didn't they just take the north-south road, it literally takes you right from the shire to rohan on a comfy road

      • 4 days ago
        Anonymous

        Black riders and agents of sauron up and down the main road.

      • 4 days ago
        Anonymous

        Dunlendings and various other wildmen

    • 4 days ago
      Anonymous

      Going north takes you directly to dragon and troll country.

      Aragorns father was killed by trolls coming from the north and Rivendell was slowly losing its ability to keep them away

    • 4 days ago
      Anonymous

      >South Gondor
      >(Now a debatable and desert land)
      What's there to debate here?

      • 4 days ago
        Anonymous

        It means it's practically uninhabited so including it in Gondor is a technicality. It's not real territory but was historically.

      • 4 days ago
        Anonymous

        Debatable is old-timey for contested, as in fought over by armies

    • 4 days ago
      Anonymous

      Which of these routes would have been the safest?

    • 4 days ago
      Anonymous

      Just avoid these areas

    • 4 days ago
      Anonymous

      why couldn't they have just gone this way? A huge portion of the journey would've been in friendly Gondor or other friendly lands allied to Gondor

      Just avoid these areas

      Way too complicated honestly. All they needed was to get a boat and do this, with only 3 people max so nobody knew. It's not possible to recover something as small a ring that was thrown into the ocean.

      • 4 days ago
        Anonymous

        An octopus would find it and become octosauron, nice try

      • 4 days ago
        Anonymous

        this dooms middle-earth but sauron is not likely to find it

        • 4 days ago
          Anonymous

          Throwing the ring in the ocean wouldn't have served their purpose at all.
          Sauron was already well on his way to steamrolling middle earth with just raw conventional military power. He didn't need the ring to win. He just wanted it back.
          Their only choice was to destroy it and thereby destroy him. Hiding it does no good.
          And Gandalf alludes that there are foul and ancient creatures in the depths of the ocean that would 100% find the ring and that would be its own problem. It still results in Sauron getting his ring back eventually anyway.

          Again, to reiterate, Sauron did not NEED the ring to conquer Middle Earth.
          Destroying it was the ONLY option.

          >Sauron was already well on his way to steamrolling middle earth with just raw conventional military power.
          This seems like propaganda. Even in the movie where they are trying to make it seem like overwhelming odds, Sauron seemed beatable, actually, he was beatable lol they beat him every time.

          Also those ocean creatures finding the ring and then doing what with it? That wouldn't cause Sauron to find the ring at all. Example[le: Golum had the ring for hundreds of years.

          • 4 days ago
            Anonymous

            They only beat him because of deus ex machinas at every turn. Such as God sending Gandalf back now gigapowerful. He's able to wipe Saruman's army then banish Saruman. Gandalf the grey wouldn't have done that nor would he have been as rousing to Gondor's courage. Then of course Aragorn gets an invincible ghost army that defeats Sauron's southern reinforcements then wipes Sauron's primary army which was well on its way to defeating Minas Tirith. So yeah, I guess you could say God wasn't about to let them lose, but he still required them to try.

          • 4 days ago
            Anonymous

            The few times they beat him were like Humanity's Last Stand kind of shit
            They didn't have anybody left after those battles, while Sauron was growing stronger and stronger every day with reinforcements from the East, and he could literally GROW his own minions with dark magic

            There was no way Middle Earth was ever going to defeat him conventionally

      • 4 days ago
        Anonymous

        Throwing the ring in the ocean wouldn't have served their purpose at all.
        Sauron was already well on his way to steamrolling middle earth with just raw conventional military power. He didn't need the ring to win. He just wanted it back.
        Their only choice was to destroy it and thereby destroy him. Hiding it does no good.
        And Gandalf alludes that there are foul and ancient creatures in the depths of the ocean that would 100% find the ring and that would be its own problem. It still results in Sauron getting his ring back eventually anyway.

        Again, to reiterate, Sauron did not NEED the ring to conquer Middle Earth.
        Destroying it was the ONLY option.

      • 4 days ago
        Anonymous

        >‘Then,’ said Glorfindel, ‘let us cast it into the deeps, and so make the lies of Saruman come true. For it is clear now that even at the Council his feet were already on a crooked path. He knew that the Ring was not lost for ever, but wished us to think so; for he began to lust for it for himself. Yet oft in lies truth is hidden: in the Sea it would be safe.’‘
        >Not safe for ever,’ said Gandalf. ‘There are many things in the deep waters; and seas and lands may change. And it is not our part here to take thought only for a season, or for a few lives of Men, or for a passing age of the world. We should seek a final end of this menace, even if we do not hope to make one.

    • 4 days ago
      Anonymous

      I asked ChatGPT about that road

      If the characters in "The Lord of the Rings" had followed the path marked by the black line on the map, the story would have changed significantly. Here is a description of how events might have unfolded:

      The Beginning in Rivendell:
      The Fellowship of the Ring begins their journey in Rivendell as in the original story.

      North to the Misty Mountains:
      Instead of heading south through Moria, the group travels north, following a longer and potentially more dangerous route.
      They would cross the Misty Mountains via a northern pass, possibly encountering trolls or goblins.

      The Trollshaws and Angmar:
      By traveling further north, they would pass near the Trollshaws, facing more trolls and other creatures.
      They might approach the region of Angmar, the former seat of the Witch-king, increasing the danger due to residual dark forces.

      The Forodwaith Plain and Ered Mithrin (Grey Mountains):
      They would traverse the frigid Forodwaith plain, facing extreme weather and possible attacks from wargs or wild creatures.
      The Grey Mountains are home to dragons and other threats, complicating their journey further.

      Mirkwood:
      Upon reaching Mirkwood, they would have to cross a vast, dark forest filled with giant spiders and other dangers.
      The route might divert towards the Old Forest, where they would face mysterious natural forces.

      Esgaroth and Erebor:
      They would pass near Esgaroth (Lake-town) and Erebor (the Lonely Mountain), possibly interacting with the Dwarves and Men of the Lake.

      The Iron Hills:
      They might seek aid from the Dwarves of the Iron Hills, led by Dáin II Ironfoot, to resupply or find shelter.

      Detour East of Rhovanion:
      They would continue east, passing near the Sea of Rhûn, a largely unexplored and unknown region.

      (continues)

      • 4 days ago
        Anonymous

        (continues)

        The Rhûn Desert:
        They would have to cross the vast Rhûn desert, facing harsh conditions and possible attacks from the Easterling tribes.

        Arriving at Mordor:
        Finally, they would reach Mordor from an unusual direction, possibly facing less vigilance in that less guarded part of Sauron's realm.
        However, the journey's difficulties and the lack of nearby allies could make the mission even more dangerous.

        Possible Consequences:

        Greater Danger and Exhaustion: The longer, more perilous journey could more quickly exhaust the Fellowship of the Ring.
        New Alliances: They might forge new alliances with the Dwarves of the Iron Hills and the Men of Lake-town.
        Less Vigilance: Approaching Mordor from an unexpected direction could allow for a less guarded entry, though still dangerous.
        Impact on Major Battles: The detour could affect the major battles in Gondor and Rohan, as members of the Fellowship would not be present to directly influence the events.

        In summary, following the route marked by the black line would have created a much more arduous and risky journey, with significant changes in the narrative and possible alternative outcomes.

      • 4 days ago
        Anonymous

        (continues)

        The Rhûn Desert:
        They would have to cross the vast Rhûn desert, facing harsh conditions and possible attacks from the Easterling tribes.

        Arriving at Mordor:
        Finally, they would reach Mordor from an unusual direction, possibly facing less vigilance in that less guarded part of Sauron's realm.
        However, the journey's difficulties and the lack of nearby allies could make the mission even more dangerous.

        Possible Consequences:

        Greater Danger and Exhaustion: The longer, more perilous journey could more quickly exhaust the Fellowship of the Ring.
        New Alliances: They might forge new alliances with the Dwarves of the Iron Hills and the Men of Lake-town.
        Less Vigilance: Approaching Mordor from an unexpected direction could allow for a less guarded entry, though still dangerous.
        Impact on Major Battles: The detour could affect the major battles in Gondor and Rohan, as members of the Fellowship would not be present to directly influence the events.

        In summary, following the route marked by the black line would have created a much more arduous and risky journey, with significant changes in the narrative and possible alternative outcomes.

        notice how it gets BTFO by tolkien

        ?si=knUewAeHY_EN7ET_&t=154

    • 4 days ago
      Anonymous

      What happens here? Wouldn't a large flood plain with sea access be ripe for habitation?

      It's actually really odd how nobody in Middle Earth seems to travel just for the sake of it. You'd think a few humans from Bree would think of visiting the Shire just to see what it's like, it's really not far away.

      • 4 days ago
        Anonymous

        you've gotta realize that by the time of LOTR they're basically living in a dystopian post-collapse future where the population is like a miniscule fraction of what it once was
        There's vast empty tracts of land because there's simply not that many people left

        • 4 days ago
          Anonymous

          >they're basically living in a dystopian post-collapse future
          >the population is like a miniscule fraction of what it once was
          What happened?

          • 4 days ago
            Anonymous

            Melkor threw an incel tantrum because Varda fricked Manwe instead of him.

            • 4 days ago
              Anonymous

              Middle Earth at the time of LOTR/the Hobbit is supposed to be like Dark Ages Europe. There was a unified kingdom of men between Gondor and Arnor (the north, where the Shire, Bree etc. are) but they split up after Sauron is destroyed the first time.
              After that, the Witch King establishes a stronghold in the mountains north of Arnor called Angmar and starts slowly pushing their shit in. They get wrecked by a plague and the kingdom basically collapses, and now the Rangers of the North are its only surviving institution who are waging guerrilla war against the orcs and trolls of Angmar. So Arnor is supposed to be like western Europe when the Roman empire collapses where every community is just independent but nominally recognizes they live in a place called Arnor.
              Rohan is a dark ages barbarian-state that the Gondorians cede land to in exchange for military support and Gondor is like the Byzantines in their waning days when the Turks and Arabs are circling around. They claim a lot of territory but don't really control much beyond Minas Tirith and the surrounding area.

              • 4 days ago
                Anonymous

                >Middle Earth at the time of LOTR/the Hobbit is supposed to be like Dark Ages Europe
                Specifically not an allegory though, as we know Tolkien HATED allegory (lmao)
                But yeah he was inspired by the idea of people living among the ruins of what they could still tell was a greater empire that came before them. They could see the works of these great people but not recreate them, and how that must have colored their psychology and outlook on the world. That the ages were descending in quality, not progressing.

              • 4 days ago
                Anonymous

                Also in the book they're pretty explicit that shit is even more fricked up in the east where Bilbo visited beyond the Misty Mountains. There is a stream of Dwarven refugees fleeing the east because orcs and easterlings have free reign there, and the elves have collectively decided to frick off back to Valinor across the sea. Even when they're travelling from the Shire to Bree and then Bree to Rivendale they're paranoid about getting ambushed by orcs because the area only a couple dozen kms to the north (Angmar) is infested by orcs and trolls.
                If there's one thing the Ralph Bashki version gets right it's the vibe or mood of like post-apocalyptic desolation and dread. The only problem I had with the Jackson films was that they gave the impression that everything in Middle Earth was fine until like 10 years before, when in the books its a lot more explicit that things have been going downhill for centuries if not longer.

      • 4 days ago
        Anonymous

        People DO live there. The numenoreans first colony in Middle Earth was built there.

      • 4 days ago
        Anonymous

        That was a slave plantation for harvesting trees for Atlantis' armada. The forest was wiped out thousands of years ago and the settlement's were subsequently abandoned.
        That little bit of trees at the top left of your circle is all that's left of the once giant forest.

        • 4 days ago
          Anonymous

          That's bullshit but I believe it.

        • 4 days ago
          Anonymous

          >The forest was wiped out thousands of years ago
          shouldnt a lot of it have regrown now that the place is uninhabited

      • 4 days ago
        Anonymous

        There is no security between small settlements and sometimes even within them. There is no empire that guarantees safe travel. So it's incredibly dangerous to travel anywhere. You can easily get eaten by wolves or killed & robbed by highway bandits, trolls or worse. The Shire only seems safe because you have Rangers protecting the borders... In Bree they actually lock their doors because it's not that safe. Middle-Earth is LOTR times was a scary and depopulated place

      • 4 days ago
        Anonymous

        >tall snow-capped mountains with no large lakes around
        >No lakes in general
        Where did the people of Middle Earth get water from? Aquifers? Springs?

        • 4 days ago
          Anonymous

          what is a river?

          • 4 days ago
            Anonymous

            I suppose so. But I think it's odd that the map showd no large lakes near mountain chains.

      • 4 days ago
        Anonymous

        akthually that place would be a rainforest. The clouds and moisture blowing in from the sea would have to rain all over that plain in order for them to go over that mountain range. Rohan would be quite dry, in comparison, due to the rain shadow effect -- though it could still be quite a fertile plain.

    • 4 days ago
      Anonymous

      >going near rhun

      • 4 days ago
        Anonymous

        >ywn produce an army of children by forcefully impregnating Rule 63 Slim Shady

        Why do we even live? Just to suffer?

    • 4 days ago
      Anonymous

      possibly the dumbest alternate route i've seen
      >doesn't go to rivendell so the fellowship never forms at all
      >goes right through angmar, god knows what fricked up shit is left there
      >goes through troll country
      >goes past Mount Gundabad which is full of Orcs
      >goes through the Withered Heath which is full of fricking dragons
      >goes near Rhun which is firmly on Sauron's side
      >have to climb the Ash Mountains
      >have to go past BARAD-FRICKING-DUR

  7. 4 days ago
    Anonymous

    If Middle Earth had cellphones, there wouldn't have been a story to tell. That's why the modern world feels so lacking. There is nowhere you can go and experience surprise or mystery.

    • 4 days ago
      Anonymous

      They found some insane cave system in Vietnam not terribly long ago. They find crazy shit in South American jungles on the regular. There's no "easy to find" mysteries or surprises, but stop being a pussy.
      https://www.travelandleisure.com/travel-news/worlds-biggest-cave-discovery-vietnam

      No Balrogs reported as of yet. M. Bison possibly.

      • 4 days ago
        Anonymous

        Far and away the largest cave system ever found, found in 1991, and still new parts of it being found.

    • 4 days ago
      Anonymous

      >cellphones
      instant communication would solve so many problems in these stories. you think they would use magic to set that up, but of course I doubt authors of that time were thinking along those lines.

      • 4 days ago
        Anonymous

        They have a cellphone system with the palantir, they stopped using it because Sauron hacked it. Denether goes mad because he spends a lifetime battling Sauron’s will to use it.

        • 4 days ago
          Anonymous

          communication would solve so many problems in these stories. you think they would use magic to set that up
          >

          There are only 7 palantirs and they are all controlled by elite wizards and shit. That's not a cellphone network.
          Also, I'm talking about fantasy in general, not just lotr.
          There is at least one military disaster in the Silmarillion that could've been prevented with a quick call.
          You'd think someone would've seen the potential of scaling up the Palantir system and prioritize that.
          Would've been handy to call up Eomer and tell him to come back because King Theoden is no longer corrupt.
          But it's fine, fantasy shouldn't be sci fi.

          • 4 days ago
            Anonymous

            clearly that shit was considered too dangerous to just hand out to any bum frick on the street
            just look how bad only one interaction with a palantir almost screwed over the fellowship because sauron got a hold of one

            a world where everyone had a palantir would quickly become a dystopia

            • 4 days ago
              Anonymous

              >clearly that shit was considered too dangerous
              all problems that could be solved with time and development.
              but as I said, this isn't sci fi so I'm not expecting Tolkien to develop his story along those lines.
              I just think it's interesting that the people of fantasy worlds have all the tools to make something similar to our modern day technology, but they don't for a variety of reasons.

              • 4 days ago
                Anonymous

                >I just think it's interesting that the people of fantasy worlds have all the tools to make something similar to our modern day technology, read the silmarillion if you are interested in the lore reason for the copouts (wizards, palantir, why men are idiots compared to 2000 years prior, etc.)

                however, i feel like aliens watching Earth would be making the same complaints are you on wondering why everyone did not have a cell phone until 2000s when the basic form of communication through radio was found in 1900s and why wars are fought over oil to this day even when nuclear micro reactors are a thing now

              • 4 days ago
                Anonymous

                >complaints
                I'm not making complaints.

          • 4 days ago
            Anonymous

            >You'd think someone would've seen the potential of scaling up the Palantir system and prioritize that.
            7 was adequate for ruling arnor, rohan, and gondor
            i don't remember the lore reason's explained in the books for the limitation, but i would think the less, the better
            if you had more just floating around for anyone to grab, then you "don't know who else may be watching"
            also only 3 are known

            the alternative were the beacons on gondor and trying to use smoke signals

            • 4 days ago
              Anonymous

              >"don't know who else may be watching"
              a problem that could be solved.
              see

              >clearly that shit was considered too dangerous
              all problems that could be solved with time and development.
              but as I said, this isn't sci fi so I'm not expecting Tolkien to develop his story along those lines.
              I just think it's interesting that the people of fantasy worlds have all the tools to make something similar to our modern day technology, but they don't for a variety of reasons.

          • 4 days ago
            Anonymous

            Magic in LotR isn't an endless, ethereal swiss army knife that you can just pull out the perfect spell for the perfect situation. It's subtle, subdued. Because the last time God allowed unrestrained magic in his orchestra Melkor went full black metal, Aule went full folk metal, Eru went full power metal and Middle Earth almost exploded.

            • 4 days ago
              Anonymous

              >Because the last time God allowed unrestrained magic in his orchestra Melkor went full black metal, Aule went full folk metal, Eru went full power metal
              Eru IS God. He also makes it very clear to Melkor and his buddies that everything they did was just according to keikaku, and they didn't actually do anything that Eru didn't want to happen.

      • 4 days ago
        Anonymous

        communication would solve so many problems in these stories. you think they would use magic to set that up
        >

    • 4 days ago
      Anonymous

      Seinfeld is the same way.

  8. 4 days ago
    Anonymous

    why couldn't they have just gone this way? A huge portion of the journey would've been in friendly Gondor or other friendly lands allied to Gondor

    • 4 days ago
      Anonymous

      Answered

      [...]
      >has anyone given a good counter argument against why the black route wasn't a good idea?
      Time. Sauron was gathering all the forces in the East and South to attack Gondor. Destroying the Ring was literally a race against the clock. The black route would have taken the Fellowship 4-5 times as long just by distance alone, never mind however much time would have been spent dealing with all the enemies they came across there.

      • 4 days ago
        Anonymous

        not really

    • 4 days ago
      Anonymous

      >Let's take Isildur's Bane straight through the heartlands of Gondor, a country of Men who oppose Sauron as his greatest enemy, where spies will definitely not cacth wind that they are passing through, let alone where the Men themselves are desperate enough to use the Ring as a weapon and powerful enough to be corrupted by it and overwhelm us. That's a great idea.

      • 4 days ago
        Anonymous

        This. They had one regular human in their party, and he's the first one turned by the Ring, and he's a cream of the crop leader-of-men.

    • 4 days ago
      Anonymous

      In the movies, this is what Boromir tells Aragorn but Aragorn doesn’t trust men enough to pass through such an area with the ring.

    • 4 days ago
      Anonymous

      Gandalf addresses it directly:
      >‘It is a name of ill omen,’ said Boromir. ‘Nor do I see the need to go there. If we cannot cross the mountains, let us journey southwards, until we come to the Gap of Rohan, where men are friendly to my people, taking the road that I followed on my way hither. Or we might pass by and cross the Isen into Langstrand and Lebennin, and so come to Gondor from the regions nigh to the sea.’
      >As for the longer road: we cannot afford the time. We might spend a year in such a journey, and we should pass through many lands that are empty and harbourless. Yet they would not be safe. The watchful eyes both of Saruman and of the Enemy are on them.

      • 4 days ago
        Anonymous

        And what of the eagles? Had they flown south for the winter?

        • 4 days ago
          Anonymous

          See

          I'll humor you
          >The Eagles are extremely distant and cold creatures, they don't really care about the affairs of men or the world. Gandalf can't just summon them at will, it's like a really heavy favor he has to call in
          >They are just as susceptible to the corruption of the Ring as any other being
          >The whole point was to SNEAK into Mordor so that Sauron doesn't realize they intend to destroy the ring. He has scouts and magic birds and shit watching everywhere, they would be spotted immediately

  9. 4 days ago
    Anonymous

    Alfrid Lickspittle won.

  10. 4 days ago
    Anonymous

    i've never watched lotr
    why is this posted all the time

    • 4 days ago
      Anonymous

      Why do you care?

  11. 4 days ago
    Anonymous

    After all.. why not? Why should I buy them?

    • 4 days ago
      Anonymous

      Cuz they'll give you Free Shipping on $10 worth of recycled plastic blocks and only charge you $1000 for them? Seriously this makes Games Workshop seem generous.

    • 4 days ago
      Anonymous

      I already have rivendell. Gunna get barad dur whenever I find one. Buying them online spoils the fun

  12. 4 days ago
    Anonymous
  13. 4 days ago
    Anonymous

    Since this is the thread for it, why was the head of the Nazgul called the Witch King and how was it he had all the powers he did? I thought the Nazgul were supposed to just be (kings of) men? Or was that the power of the ring he was given? If so, why didn't someone just try to separate him from his ring like with Sauron?

    • 4 days ago
      Anonymous

      Sauron actually has all the wraiths rings. That is how they control him. It is implied he channels Sauron’s power as at the battle of Pelenor he is said to be charged with demonic energy.

      Interestingly he is only called the witch king in the appendixes. In direct narration he gets different titles

    • 4 days ago
      Anonymous

      >I thought the Nazgul were supposed to just be (kings of) men?
      They were, before they became Nazgul >Or was that the power of the ring he was given?
      Yes, the nine rings gave them sorcerous powers and they gained massive wealth before they eventually became wraiths.
      >If so, why didn't someone just try to separate him from his ring like with Sauron?
      Pure speculation here, but his ring - by way of the One Ring - entwined itself to his soul, binding him and the other eight as slaves of Sauron's bidding since thr One Ring had a part of Sauron's soul. I don't recall if the Nazgul's rings are ever actually mentioned, it could just be that they were so far gone at that point that they didn't need them since they were all slave rings to the one master ring.

  14. 4 days ago
    Anonymous

    What does the watchers and the tower with the observatory actually do? It’s implied orc souls are stuffed into this statues to animate it

  15. 4 days ago
    Anonymous

    They almost made it through the mines without waking up the orcs or the balrog though

  16. 4 days ago
    Anonymous

    For scale

    • 4 days ago
      Anonymous

      Grey Havens is Massachusetts

      • 4 days ago
        Anonymous

        >Yeah, we got eternity and shit over here.

    • 4 days ago
      Anonymous

      >Romania is Mordor

  17. 4 days ago
    Anonymous

    The Fellowship made it 99% of the way through Khazad-Dum with no problems. It wasn't a bad plan. They were within a few minutes running distance of the exit. The bad idea was to take a sight seeing detour and not hand cuff Pippin

    • 4 days ago
      Anonymous

      I have a copy of this Atlas. Very based. My favourite Tolkien book not written by him

    • 4 days ago
      Anonymous

      damn this really puts Gandalf's dragout fight with the balrog into perspective

  18. 4 days ago
    Anonymous

    The eagles would get eaten by the sneedghouls

  19. 4 days ago
    Anonymous

    Alright, so if flying the eagles into Mordor was too dangerous because of Sauron's Nazgul patriot missiles, when why not just take them partway? Like, at least get them from Rivendel to Lorien.

    • 4 days ago
      Anonymous

      The Eagles are proud magical creatures that basically don't give a shit about the world. They would just refuse.
      Ferrying a couple of homosexuals around like a taxi is beneath them

      plus there's still the risk they get corrupted by being near the ring. They are not immune to it.
      Also even part-way, Sauron's spies would spot them. They didn't want him to even know there was a party moving towards Mordor. If he sees a collection of Men, Elves, Dwarves, Hobbits, and fricking Gandalf flying around on eagles he's going to think something weird is going on.

      • 4 days ago
        Anonymous

        I'm sure the eagles would not be corrupted by such a short trip. It would take them like 2 hours at best to fly from Rivendel to Lorien, and Sauron didn't have any spies in either country, and nobody would be just sitting on the frozen peaks of the misty mountains looking at the sky just in case the eagles would fly overhead. Even if someone did, all they'd see is a flock of giant eagles who are flying over the place where they live.

  20. 4 days ago
    Anonymous

    How do people travel across the mihntain, when the only two routes are a dangerous pass and a mine filled with goblins?

  21. 4 days ago
    Anonymous

    I used to obsessively collect tolkien in my younger years.

    These days all I have left are my 1957 1st edition LOTR in absurd condition. Figured someone here might appreciate it. it's almost impossible to find an early set in this condition, and it's worth a lot of $$.

    • 4 days ago
      Anonymous

      Tolkien designed this jacket, and it's the best LOTR ever looked, hands down. His original designs were rejected, and I think that was a good choice. Though, they were good too.

    • 4 days ago
      Anonymous

      Can I have it?

      • 4 days ago
        Anonymous

        this particular set is worth over $10,000 because of the condition and early print, so unfortunate I cannot just give it away.

        • 4 days ago
          Anonymous

          Ah shit, I forgot to say please. Enjoy I guess.

          I'm seriously jelly though, the set my father gave me might have been a very early edition too since they had the same jackets, but they're very well-thumbed by now and likely not worth much.

          • 4 days ago
            Anonymous

            If you have it with you, post pictures of it and I can estimate its worth. Tell me what year it is too (impression of each book).

            BTW my Lord Dunsany collection is even more insane than anything I ever had of Tolkien. Some of the scarcest 100+ year old books with their original jackets basically the only ones left in existence. I think my Dunsany collection is over $40,000 now.

            • 4 days ago
              Anonymous

              I don't have it on me I'm afraid, and it's 5:30 AM here in bongland so I don't really feel like pawing through my old boxes of books. I'll try and find it for the next time we have a "why didn't they just use the eagles and fly the ring to Mordor" thread, it never occurred to me to check what edition they were since I was 12 or so when I read them. But I would never throw them out and assume they're still somewhere, possibly even in storage. I'll get back to you about it!

            • 4 days ago
              Anonymous

              Do you have any old kalevalas

    • 4 days ago
      Anonymous

      >different heights
      why?

      • 4 days ago
        Anonymous

        staggard release. fellowship 1954, TT 1955, ROTK 1956. this is the 1957 set, when you still had to buy them individually. They were not sold as a set until 1958. Also different binderys, purnell and jarrold.

        • 4 days ago
          Anonymous

          ahh, interesting. Still very neat, thanks for sharing.

    • 4 days ago
      Anonymous

      Awesome stuff, Anon.

      • 4 days ago
        Anonymous

        ahh, interesting. Still very neat, thanks for sharing.

        Thx.
        Not tolkien, but here is my rarest and most expensive book. Only 3 of these still remain (and 1 of them is owned by the boston library muserum). It was originally a 1 of 10 bound in 1910. full vellum with woodcut decorations. a book so rare that photos of it don't exist.

        btw I hold reverence of the big D unsany over Tolkien. I say that as the truth. It's just a fact that Tolkien would not exist without Dunsany IMO.

        • 4 days ago
          Anonymous

          >TFUSFS has been called one of Dunsany's best stories,[7] "his first indisputable masterpiece",[1] and "one of the finest short pieces of its type in English".[2]

          The story was a major influence and inspiration for writers such as J. R. R. Tolkien, H. P. Lovecraft, Fritz Leiber, Clark Ashton Smith, and Jack Vance, but Dunsany was unaware of this until nearly the end of his life. It has been called "perhaps the first sword and sorcery story ever written", with almost all the usual elements of the type present,[1][8] and The Encyclopedia of Fantasy states that it "almost singlehandedly created the Sword and Sorcery genre";[5] in his introduction to In the Land of Time, and Other Fantasy Tales, S. T. Joshi noted it as one of several of Dunsany's stories which might be said to have created the subgenre.[9] However, the sensible Leothric is more like a fairy-tale hero than a Conanesque barbarian,[1] and the tale does not have the thrills and excitement of typical sword and sorcery.[2][10]

          Sacnoth is the first sentient sword in fantasy fiction, and an influence on the sword Caudimordax in Tolkien's story Farmer Giles of Ham and Stormbringer in Michael Moorwiener's Elric novels.[1]

          • 4 days ago
            Anonymous

            anyway I hope I brought some interest in books to you guys. have a good day.

          • 4 days ago
            Anonymous

            anyway I hope I brought some interest in books to you guys. have a good day.

            Beautiful stuff. Thanks for sharing this.

    • 4 days ago
      Anonymous

      Tolkien designed this jacket, and it's the best LOTR ever looked, hands down. His original designs were rejected, and I think that was a good choice. Though, they were good too.

      That fricking awesome!
      My sister has a special edition copy of the complete trilogy compiled into one book (book alone goes for like $200+ now) and got it signed by all four hobbit actors and Andy Serkis.

  22. 4 days ago
    Anonymous

    >Let's go through the Mines of Murderyou. I'm sure we'll receive a kingly welcome

  23. 4 days ago
    Anonymous

    Did anyone else see Return Of The King Extended in theaters tonight?
    I was sobbing like a b***h during the end, haven’t seen it in theaters since it first came out in 2003.

    • 4 days ago
      Anonymous

      just got back
      >theoden doing all he can in the days leading up to his death to preemptively help eowyn with the grief
      >eomer screaming when he sees her on the battlefield
      >ride for ruin and the worlds ending
      how can one kingdom be so fricking kino

    • 4 days ago
      Anonymous

      just got back
      >theoden doing all he can in the days leading up to his death to preemptively help eowyn with the grief
      >eomer screaming when he sees her on the battlefield
      >ride for ruin and the worlds ending
      how can one kingdom be so fricking kino

      >I will never see lord of the rings in theaters

    • 4 days ago
      Anonymous

      dang I had no idea. would've gone had I known.

    • 4 days ago
      Anonymous

      I had never seen any of the films so I went for the three-peat marathon. Feels bad that the israelites decided to just trade in grand epics for disposable comic book movies. Had a good chuckle during the producer credits. And Lawrence of Arabia is coming back at least. Fathom Events will save the kinoplex.

  24. 4 days ago
    Anonymous

    Frodo should have just put the ring in his butthole like one would a polo mint between their lips and then just gone and bent over in front of aauron and been like come and take it, big boy. And sauron wouldn't be able to because all the orcs would laugh and call him a homosexual.

    • 4 days ago
      Anonymous

      >Frodo should have just put the ring in his butthole
      ...would that count as wearing it?

      • 4 days ago
        Anonymous

        Only while he's pooping through it.

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