>LOL isn't it funny that we use underpaid Koreans to animate our show? It's too much work for us to do anything other than storyboarding I mean look how good our art is, microsoft paint shape tool blobs are hard work
https://twitter.com/spumdonor/status/1659335726708981760
op you homosexual stop using Twitter
Animation is not financially viable if there are too many labour laws
It would be if they had some good merch. Who cares if the animation cost 100 million to make if you get 300 million in profits from toy sales
>toy sales
Funko pop?
Haven't you seen how much Japanese brands monetize their content, regardless of age demo?
When people talk about cheapness and expense, what are the quantifiable prices we’re talking about here? Could a bunch of anons hire some Koreans to animate whatever they want?
We're talking mid-5 figures for a standard 22 minute block, but these deals are for one or more seasons at a time and there's naturally perks to being a major corporation with a constant need for animation studios in the future. As a single suspiciously wealthy anon, you'd likely end up paying comparatively higher for your short one-shot. Time costs go down, but the related flat fees don't.
You still need money to hire them. Even the sweatiest of sweatshops can be costly.
>lol frick them workers man
These are the same people who 10 years from today will b***h the loudest about how modern animation sucks since AI took it over.
Either way the workers are out of a job
Good, frick most animators.
Animation is financially viable if it receives state subsidies in the for of tax benefits and direct investment. See Canada specifically.
Bro... don't think of it like that... Jokes like this are giving the overseas animators the credit they deserve 🙂
the writers and storyboard artists aren't the ones in charge of hiring sweatshop studios to do the actual animation
The actual funny thing is that Koreans very vocally hate homosexuality. But now all shows have gay in it, and they're underpaid to draw it.
If pixiv is anything to go by, they let out their hatred and aggression towards said gay characters by drawing them being brutally maimed, raped, and murdered.
Korean ryona is a gift. Not because of homophobia but because it's genuinely fun.
>Koreans very vocally hate homosexuality
Then why do they look so fricking gay
They're pandering to women and it's working. It's working really well
I'm actually wondering why Westerners so hellbent on appealing to women don't capitalize on the fuccboi aesthetic and instead usually have nothing but either regular 6-pack strongmen or gutless weenies
>>I'm actually wondering why Westerners so hellbent on appealing to women don't capitalize on the fuccboi aesthetic
They used to, boybands used to be huge in the west from basically the 60s all the way up to the early 2010s, but nowadays they're basically nonexistent.
They all used to be full of slightly effeminate dudes who were slaying pussy left and right (except for the gay ones) because women love the mildly effeminate male aesthetic.
What changed?
The west got a lot gayer and now being an effeminate male means you have to like dick.
LGBT
If you ever leave the USA and go to India, China and even some parts of Europe...men hold hands and even kiss each other when greeting; but whoa upon you if it's suggested they are gay, it's unthinkable to them.
Lol I was in korea for all of last year and I can tell you there is a huge wall of BL in the manga store
No they don't
>t.American
Geez, I wonder who made this thread. Certainly not whoever made that Twitter thread.
BIG MEAN MAN WHIP US
WE ARE SLAAAAAVES
Shit like this is peak modern liberal.
>point out a thing wrong with society
>blame it on "capitalism" or "corporations" or "the man"
>continue to do it themselves, to the point of doing it in such a way that their critique is interwoven with the thing they're complaining about
You don't understand, the only way non-capitalism can exist is in a void where capitalism doesn't exist
Even the slightest bit of capitalism poisoned the whole system to the point it's not non-capitalism anymore
What's your solution then?
Not that poster, but can you articulate exactly what the problem is? Not what you think is unfair, but what isn't getting done, and what need isn't being fulfilled?
If you're not that poster, why do you care why they're getting grilled over their dumbass "and yet you participate in society" post?
Why shouldn't I? We're all discussing the same subject.
You're asking for a solution without first defining a specific problem. What is it?
How is an American supposed to stop any of what was being described? It's like pointing out that your shoes or your phone is being made by child laborers. Sucks but what can you do? Fly over to China and save them?
Anon, real life is not a movie nor is it a video game. No one man is gonna be able to tear down an entire system with an M16 and a couple rounds. To act like people aren't really truing to make a change is stupid.
>How is an American supposed to stop any of what was being described?
Well, the point I was hoping to make is that the stuff being described here aren't actually problems. They've been solved, it just so happens the solution doesn't benefit certain people the way they want.
Animation being outsourced isn't the problem, it's the solution. Studios found ways to make cartoons financially feasible, we the audience are still getting cartoons, animators overseas are making money and growing their economy until the day it doesn't make sense for them to work for us anymore. There's no loser here, except the people who created problems in the first place. The industry routed around them.
If you hate sweat shops, don't hire them
The only people I've ever seen complain about capitalism are one of the following:
>losers who want a life of luxury while bringing literally nothing to the table
>trust fund kids and/or people who have had money handed to them without ever having had to work in any capacity
>people who are under the delusion that government influence in the private sector is in any way capitalism
to do it themselves, to the point of doing it in such a way that their critique is interwoven with the thing they're complaining about
you are literally pic related, you fricking moron.
>
When you do nothing substantial about it, it's just whining. Read the whole thread. To get what you truly want, the system has to burn, and none of you will do that. So what's the point?
The guy in the well is right, though.
Saving this
That's why I posted it, friend. Enjoy!
The difference is that one is complaining and the other is being cheeky.
moronic /misc/ NEET take
why is wrong think an offense to culture more often than the practices of mega corps raping the labor forces of other countries?
You have to be 18+ to use Cinemaphile
women and liberals are as greedy as the ones they call greedy
one is a capitalist
one is a sad capitalist 🙁
You morons are trying way too hard to manufacture outrage.
>Spumco defenders
Cringe
someone write a greentext about being a korean wagecuck in a sweatshop animating a scene about korean wagecucks animating cartoons in a sweatshop.
No seriously, why are all American cartoons exclusively animated in Korea?
because Koreans are Ameriboos who are cheap
their country has no culture
They're not, they're also animated in Vietnam.
And it's because the Japanese and Chinese are too expensive and too busy with their own domestic animation.
It's cheaper to pay for overseas animators because they don't have the same regulations as we do in the states. Animators being part of a union and having to be paid a set amount has made it prohibitively expensive to animate in house.
this is also why 2D animation "died out", 3D animation isn't easier or cheaper, they just aren't unionized. It all loops back to corporations trying to spend as little money as possible.
Sadly this. You want to know why Unions are not the best? It's because of this exactly.
>unions are so good at ensuring good conditions for their members that corporations will do everything possible to dodge them
>that's why unions are bad, actually
Eat a curb corpo mouthpiece.
There's a saying "no good deed goes unpunished"
Life ain't fair.
Price controls don't work.
What is with all this anti union bs lately? Who is paying these chuds to spout shit about unions that is blatantly false? This is some 'how do you do fellow kids' level shit.
they do it for free
They wouldn't have to if they Unionized.
labor makes up the vast majority of the production costs. so if you can squeeze that you can save some real shekels! if anyone complains about being squeezed you threaten to blacklist them and the cronies hire more noobs and it keeps going. The industry is a joke, they are frothing for AI to replace even 10% of the labor costs.
moronic bootlicking traitor.
I say unions who act in its own interests rather than the interests of the workers it’s suppose to protect are the reasons why unions are (or can be) gay as hell, not for what you stated.
Unions are, like many things, controlled by people. People are prone to human feelings of greed, corruption, self preservation, selfish interests, etc. But like any job, if the union can’t do its job right: clean it up.
the Japanese do it too
Most 3D shows are animated in Canada
Not all of them, shows can be outsourced to companies in other countries like France or Canada
Family Guy is has outsourced animation
It's literally just puppet bullshit and reused scenarios and they still need to outsource it
Family Guy is run off a perfected version of GoAnimate and they're too lazy to make it in house?
why can't americans make their own animations anymore?
Hanna Barbera plus the dead of industrial america
Animation industry makes a ton of money not because it produces well writtem, well designed, well animated cartoons and films but because it can corners like theres no tomorrow.
People are going to get mad at this, but it's directly related to wages.
Animation is a trade, like plumbing or auto mechanics. Once upon a time, you didn't go to school to learn animation, you just worked. You apprenticed, got mileage, got good, and rose through the ranks. What did apprentice animators do? They drew inbetweens. It's the lowest-rung job, but also the lifeblood of animation. And anyone could pursue this as a career at any time they choose, because there's always a need for more animators, and it's entry-level. You don't need a degree. You didn't even need to be good.
This system works only when you are allowed to pay what that labor is actually worth according to the market, not an arbitrary minimum number that lets us pat ourselves on the back. (In fact, minimum wage is rooted in keeping black and migrant workers from out-competing white workers, but that's too big a topic for here.) Once wages went up, employer demands also went up, so this entry level job was no longer available to anyone coming off the street. You needed a degree, an expensive one paid for by rich parents. You wouldn't be doing inbetweens and getting the mileage necessary to become a truly great animator, because all of it is done overseas.
Compare this to the situation in Japan. We all have seen that graph showing how low the yearly earnings the inbetween artist artist earns. What that graph doesn't show is who these inbetweeners typically are, or how much they work. They're students, they're part timers, they're housewives who take seasonal animation jobs. It's anybody who wants to do it, they get paid per drawing rather than take a wage, and work as much or as little as they want. Anime is working with a huge potential talent pool. We are not. We are limited to people who can afford to go to overpriced schools. We can't walk into Cartoon Network or Disney and say "give me a job!" without a resume. That's why we can't animate.
That's a lot of words to avoid discussing the fact that every single worker produces VASTLY more money in productivity than their wages cost. Make excuses if you want, but the reason it's done isn't because "They can't afford to pay that much". That is an outright fricking lie. It is because investors and CEOs aren't willing to accept a business that creates a product people want to buy, sold for a price that earns a respectable living for the people who put the work in to create it. They demand more money for themselves, despite their limited involvement in the creation of the product.
>That's a lot of words to avoid discussing the fact that every single worker produces VASTLY more money in productivity than their wages cost.
I won't disagree. That's actually true. But productivity is not the same as market value, and the amount of work that goes into something doesn't guarantee a return in the entertainment industry. Half of productions lose money, so the difference is made up by the productions that are successful.
If you truly want everyone to be paid what they rightfully should earn, you have to stop subsidizing the losers.
You're almost there but not quite.
If we actually 'subsidized the losers' as in, had UBI or something so that people could pursue the things they want to do and create we'd see actual quality push forward. Of course, there's other factors too, but minimum wage being too low, housing costs being too high. Basically the fat cats keep taking larger and larger slices of pie and telling everyone under that their problems would go away if it wasn't the leeches of society like people on welfare, the homeless, minorities, women, whatever. The true leeches of society are the rich who hoard the wealth and take more and more from the masses while pushing them deeper into the pit.
We don't live in a world where people can actually create what they want and have the market decide what is good or not because of gatekeeping that exists in the form of marketing departments, large corporations, and the fact that people need to take shitty, underpaid jobs in order to feed and house themselves.
>if we make the fattest cat of all, the government, even fatter, it will solve all problems
>if we give workers better wages and provide UBI and cheaper housing, that will make the government richer!
Who's "we"
>If we actually 'subsidized the losers' as in, had UBI or something so
This is not what I mean at all.
When a movie like Lightyear loses $100 million, do we ask everyone who worked on it to pay back that much? No, the studio eats that cost. Believe it or not, this happens half the time.
This is the safety net that working in "the system" provides. The business shoulders the vast majority of the risks. The tradeoff is that you can't argue everyone should be paid based on their productivity. If that's what you want, start your own studio and shoulder 100% of the risk yourself.
Every movie "loses money" Anon. It's a huge scam.
If you all know it's a huge scam, why keep working for these studios?
side effect of the whole, Corporations are People too movement and laws
-passed to allow politicians and other groups to accept money and fundraising from said businesses
-Superpacks and other methods of getting money legally via easily fricked with methodologies
-corporations now are NOT required to run themselves into the ground, destroy their way of making money, and enrich their investors and CEO's/Boards with always increasing amounts of money
-businesses are NOT required to sell off all assets, pay everyone at all levels less and less, reduce wages and salaries, reduce and eliminate benefits, and make it so only the top brass make money
-having to remove and destroy/block any and all unions
the problem is that its TREATED at the highest levels of society like thats the defacto way of life
Corporate burning down of businesses, removal of the corporations very ability to make money, keep making money, providing a service, and/or products that continue to make money is treated as a legit way to make money(its NOT, but its an easy way for people to make QUICK BUCKS, burn everything away, sell off all valuation, burning parachute of gold, rinse, repeat) export all monetary value and money making to places that do it for dirt cheap, and repeat the cycle
Unions fought against this, leading to the even faster gutting of any and all retirement packages and deals at both the business end, national end, and more(no one will get Social Security, no one will get pensions, 401k's are the norm(which can be raided at all levels for even more money, including by those not even named as beneficiaries)
animation followd this economy, 3D animation is FAMOUS for never having and never being able to have unions or consideration for Unions, any and all animation being sent overseas, 3D animation being the norm to the point children HATE(hint, they don't hate animation, they just been conditioned to respond this way)2D as strange, 3D as the new normal
The answer starts with a J
There's a weird trend in modern western animation to acknowledge that they don't give a shit about modern western animation. Just another reason more people are switching to anime.
Like writers saying they hate fans of source material. Got it
You...do know anime outsources to korea too, right?
Anime outsources too and you don't see Cinemaphile making pointless Twitter threads.
Because Twitter threads are banned
I actually saw someone post a Twitter thread on Cinemaphile and soon as they did they were banned with the almighty words:
USER HAS BEEN BANNED FOR THIS POST
Stuck on that moron’s post
Based weebs
>Twitter thread
Erase yourself from this timeline anon
You fricking waste of human flesh
Sing along if you know the words.
Im'ma KOREAN
And i like my Chinese food cooked right
Ching Chang Chong!
I’m Kim Jang Un!
I got a mushroom cloud, for you!
>it's a joke about the koreans being slaves animating shit
>AGAIN
>NOOOOOOOO YOU CAN'T MAKE A JOKE ABOUT KOREANS AND POOR WORKING CONDITIONS
>THAT'S HECKING RACIST
>you stole it
>then he stole it
>then i stole it
>its called capitalism
with such amazing dialogue I hope the writers on the WGA strike never reach an agreement and just starve to death if this is the witty dialogue where are getting.
I think there's a certain irony that people side with the corporations who are equally as guilty for demanding this shit.
Is this somehow the writer's fault? Or the multi-millionaire trust fund babies who run the show?
Sometimes, they're both.
This is the Comics & Cartoon board and you had to learn about this scene from Twitter?
I don't even understand how. Isn't south korea more expensive than USA in most places?
Yea, but then they'd have to hire animators who live in one of those low-cost flyover states, which is absolutely unthinkable to your average urbanite.
I really dont get that. Plus, animation can be done long distance no issue. Plenty of gamedev is done that way.
It's funny how you think there's enough talented animators to fill even one korean style animation sweatshop in places like ohio. Even basic inbetweening requires more talent than fentanyl addled white trash bubba can ever dream of.
I mean, that applies to all of America, not just the flyover parts.
It's Vietnam and the Philippines these days.
Although Vietnam might be getting too rich for their blood soon too.
The asian animator slave wages narrative has always been out of context, and tossed about here as a weird kind of cope. Reality is exchange rates favored us a long time, Korean animators are more productive, and the studios made long term investments that are paying dividends now. Also, by being purely independent hired guns working for a bunch of different shows, the Korean studios enjoy an economy of scale we would not. There's never a down time, there's never wasted capacity.
When The Simpsons made a couch gag about animators working in slave-like conditions, the Korean animators actually got upset.
https://content.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,2027768,00.html
Mike Judge has also mentioned how professional and modern Korean animation studios were when he visited.
Even when we talk about Japanese animator pay and how it hasn't grown, people fail to mention that Japan's cumulative inflation over the last 30 ears is under 50%. That means something that cost 100 yen in 1985 is still less than 150 yen today. The lack of wage growth isn't impacting them nearly as much as it does us.
This is the argument the rich buttholes use in every part of world to hire low wages people outside locally . They will do anything they ask because their livelihood depends on it . And you call slavery hard work. Just because they dont ask for benefits.
As long as people have property rights, they can choose to spend money how they wish. Freedom is what you'll have to upend to get your way.
Then openly say that instead of trying to act holy.
No, that's for you to admit openly. You're the one who seems to think businesses shouldn't find the best workers at the lowest wages.
Business didn't find best workers. You found workers worth for your money. And act like they are best and nothing is there locally. You didn't understand shit. You just want people who do what asked without talking back. Aka slaves.
How is it slavery when you're getting paid and can get another job if you so wish
Alright low wage manforce whom you can exploit to those who ask for more benefits locally. It's for profit. No hard work bullshit. Even local ones will work hard if they are given enough pay.
It is modern slavery where you can sugarcoat like the words you use right now, instead of using s word. Why don't you go and ask those animators if they are content with the salary they have for the work the to do.
Don't bother with that guy. He's just doubling down and arguing against reality because it doesn't fit his narrative, even when contravening opinions from koreans themselves have already been posted in this thread. He thinks all the outsource animators should argue against jobs being outsourced to them, for the sake of American animators wanting more pay. He's a fricking idiot.
it is funny
Black person it's just a joke it isn't actually slave labor their paid fairly well.
>asiatics doingmenial work FUNNY
>AI doing the same BAD
>tfw retake animator
people who post shit like this have never touched a pencil in their life.
people might say it's just a joke but all the behavior I see from modern industry homosexuals on twitter is that they sincerely see Koreans as their loyal serfs to turn their notebook doodles into a magic product they take no real pride in. also
>muh japan outsources
yet it clearly looks equal or better than most western shows so clearly it's not an issue of outsourcing itself but the sub-par western input
post portfolio
>Cinemaphile - Twitter Screencaps
shut up you dipshit
I liked to doodle as a kid, my drawings got pretty good because I started learning to do details more and more, never cared much for school so i'd spend a lot of time drawing.
the moment my grandmother put me in an after school program for art was the moment i quit drawing and lost all love for it. I havent made a drawing in 25 years.
That's the thing. Animation is a calling. It is also technical. Things might have gone differently if you had taken an apprenticeship instead of attending class. Or maybe it's a good thing you got this out of your system early. Art must be among the most commonly abandoned childhood dreams next to being a video game designer and paleontologist.
It was the opposite with me. I liked drawing as a hobby and I thought maybe I could this as some sort of career.
Then actually went to art school, where it became like boot camp, where they break you down and yeah you feel like shit because other people are drawing better than you, but slowly but surely I started to get better and better and I saw myself improve and really boosted my confidence, it became an addiction to get better, it also became an addiction to work on animation projects. Even when I’m not in school I’m now working on several animation projects and some freelance
Yeah. In the end no matter what happens I’m just glad I have a calling in life. It sucks that I know talented and smart kids in high school that didn’t do anything after high school.
Have you ever seen a joke in anime about a person being making a shitty drawing? The reason a Japanese audience would find this funny is that basic drawing skills are part of education; a person being very bad at drawing is like a person not being able to write legibly. This is why "If you cannot do anything else, you can work in animation" (in Korea too)
Is the average South Korean animation studio actually sweatshop tier or is it an exaggeration?
It's more like dilbert but very tiny
I'd imagine it's probably more like a mindnumbing office setting. Instead of excel sheets or whatever they do, it's just several hundred inbetweens of some gay ass cartoon they'll never watch. It's just funnier to portray it as a literal sweatshop
Literally any claim made by the ivory tower dwelling employees of studios or Hollywood in general are either extreme exaggerations or full on falsehoods.
Yes it is
In fact this particularly disturbing film about fish crammed inside a fish tank at a restaurant was made by a Korean animator who was being driven crazy kept inside the animation studio he was being overworked in
Unless the Twitter user you linked actually creates animations his opinions are genuinely worthless.
>you have to be a part of my clique to criticize meeeeee!!!!
shut up Black person
If u sit around talking about cartoons all day and have never made literally anything you’re a huge fricking dork.
I make nothing but the world still should bend to me anyways
>morons on Twitter notice a cartoon making a joke about Korean sweatshops and makes it political