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  1. 10 months ago
    Anonymous

    >A monopolistic parasite that has overseen the precipitous decline of the US comics market is looking out for the "long-term welfare of our marketplace".

    Is this guy on DMT?

    • 10 months ago
      Anonymous

      Apparently he stopped, because Image cut ties with Diamond yesterday.

    • 10 months ago
      Anonymous

      He was right then and he is right now.

      The concern wasnt just DC leaving Diamond
      It was doing so at the riskiest moment where doing so might have kill everyone else
      It all worked out in the end though and frankly, in hindsight it was a good thing DC left and others followed suit

    • 10 months ago
      Anonymous

      Doesn't Diamond literally have organized crime connections too?

  2. 10 months ago
    Anonymous

    He was right then and he is right now.

  3. 10 months ago
    Anonymous

    Just like when Image was created.

  4. 10 months ago
    Anonymous

    Well Image would know, their comics are all about sociopaths

  5. 10 months ago
    Anonymous

    alright Cinemaphile redpill me on what the frick this even means in the wider industry.

    Will comics actually start showing up outside of specialty shops and bargain isles again or what.

    • 10 months ago
      Anonymous

      I fricking wish. It is fricking disgraceful that comic book movies exploded and comic books themselves continued to do nothing.

      • 10 months ago
        Anonymous

        They should try being less shit.

        • 10 months ago
          Anonymous

          This.

          Image, Vertigo, tonnes of publishers were putting out amazing shit. Then comic book movies came out and what happened, no, not renewed interest in storytelling but doubling down on more and more capeshit, the worst capeshit both in film and comics.

          Comics have been dead to me for like over a decade. There aren't stories like 100 Bullets or Fables anymore. Highest House is never going to finish. Locke and Key got picked up for a TV series that I didn't watch but I'm sure it was shit, just like Sandman was shit as much as American Gods was shit.

          Comics deserve to fricking die after the fricking miracle lifeline movies threw at them and they fricking squandered and wasted it.

          • 10 months ago
            Anonymous

            Isn't Fables back?

          • 10 months ago
            Anonymous

            >There aren't stories like 100 Bullets or Fables anymore

            Crime and fantasy stories are being put out all the time.

            Isn't Fables back?

            For the time being. Not sure if it’ll continue beyond the twelve issues it was planned.

            • 10 months ago
              Anonymous

              >Crime and fantasy stories
              Did you really read what I said and thought I was b***hing about the choice of setting?

              • 10 months ago
                Anonymous

                You were complaining about not getting X or Y and moaning about too much capeshit being produced. If you wanted to say the quality of non-capeshit material has gone down then you’re wrong on that side as well because Vertigo did not produce very many comics, all it has was handful of long running quality titles and you can find same level of quality from other publishers fairly regularly. The only difference is they don’t run for hundreds of issues because they don’t have the visibility of big two and creators tend to want to do short new projects since self-publishing lengthy stuff is very hard unlike getting backing from a major publisher.

    • 10 months ago
      Anonymous

      This article is three years old. They're laughing because Image just ditched Diamond too.

      • 10 months ago
        Anonymous

        Half of this would be solved if they just started having them on display in little kiosks and supermarket check out aisles and shit tbh. Little Timmy cannot buy or beg for his parents to buy a comic if he only has a vague idea it exists, let alone where to find it, and similarly parents/teens who give a shit or want to buy it for younger family can't buy it if it's not readily available either. The value per dollar ratio is already fricking terrible for comics without the added cost of inconvenience and the lack of awareness and free advertising that is just being publically fricking visible outside of online orders and specialty shops. Online distro is nice but it's really catering to enthusiasts, not making more of them, there's no inward funnel.

        And any braindead fricking 12 year old could tell you that if you asked them to sit down and think about it for 5 minutes so it's baffling that multimillion dollar corpos can't figure this out.

        • 10 months ago
          Anonymous

          I agree. It's so incredibly simple. I can't wrap my head around why during the biggest superhero boom of all time, they can't sell superhero comics.

          • 10 months ago
            Anonymous

            and superhero fatigue seems to have finally set in, marvel and dc missed their chance, but it seems like they don't care that much anyway. sad.

            • 10 months ago
              Anonymous

              >and superhero fatigue seems to have finally set in
              Are MCU movies finally starting to tank or something?

              • 10 months ago
                Anonymous

                They're not as popular as they peaked with End Game or whatever that movie was called. Anecdotally, I have several normalgay friends who are also pretty tired of Marvel movies.

            • 10 months ago
              Anonymous

              I agree. If James Gunn can't spark it again, and I rather doubt he will, then it's over. These movies will never hit the same heights of popularity, and this perfect opportunity is gone forever. I'm staggered by the incompetence of this industry.

        • 10 months ago
          Anonymous

          I agree. It's so incredibly simple. I can't wrap my head around why during the biggest superhero boom of all time, they can't sell superhero comics.

          >Let me show how I understand nothing about retail and sales by using my personal childhood nostalgia as my argument

          • 10 months ago
            Anonymous

            >He thinks I ever saw comics on shelves as a kid
            Anon if my late millennial ass had seen comic books anywhere I'd have actually bought them as a kid rather than starting in my teens, before I came to understand that the peak of the industry had ended around the time my mother was a kid.

            • 10 months ago
              Anonymous

              Oh so you’re even bigger idiot then. Thanks for the clarification.

              • 10 months ago
                Anonymous

                Alternatively maybe you're just moronic.

              • 10 months ago
                Anonymous

                I actually happen to know reasons why they stopped selling at kiosks and grocery store checkout aisles, so no. You’re the idiot who knows nothing about the business model.

          • 10 months ago
            Anonymous

            >Well then write something new? Oh wait your new fans dont appreciate your garbage writing either.

            Talk about projection. Even when they’ve tried to broaden their publishing line WITH WHITE HETEROSEXUAL CONTENT you don’t buy it or appreciate it and when the title(s) inevitably get cancelled you complain that they aren’t doing anything. Rinse and repeat.

            Comic fans are so goddamn entitled little spoiled brats who want every single comic to be targeted to them specifically and then whine that more isn’t being done to broaden the spectrum and more people aren’t brought to reading comics, even though you literally act insanely hostile if any such attempt is done and other groups are marketed.

            Look how much you motherfrickers list your mind when DC started doing YA graphic novels and one character was large size girl. You wouldn’t stop b***hing about it for months that it was wokeshit ruining comics even though it was never aimed at you, it was out of continuity and easily ignorable, and the if you read it it was entirely inoffensive but you wouldn’t stop complaining about it and acting like it was DC spitting at you because you yourself who were not the target demographic didn’t find it appealing.

            It’s nothing but me me me me me me. You don’t care about bringing in new people, you want your secret little club to fail rather more different people reading them.

            Not them but I honestly wish people would stop making the "How do we save/fix comics" problem as the "How do we save/fix Marvel and DC" problem inherently
            I groaned at IANS for well, everything (the fact that it became one of the most popular storytimes in recently memory makes me lose hope for this board) but I know it wasn't for me, whether it succeeded within its target audience I'm not sure (frankly when the DC YA line was announced I just took it as a way for DC to direct that shit somewhere else into its own corner)
            I don't mind comics I don't care for/fall outside of my demographic like Saga or Monstress suceeding
            In actuality, I'm all for it
            I want more comics to be for other people but I also don't want to sacrifice my own enjoyment for the titles I do read to service an entirely different audience

      • 10 months ago
        Anonymous

        that increase is all manga from bookstores lmao

        • 10 months ago
          Anonymous

          Anon, the pic clearly separates bookstores and LCS'

    • 10 months ago
      Anonymous

      >Will comics actually start showing up outside of specialty shops and bargain isles again or what.

      >tl;dr Almost certainly not other than lines specifically made to go to those places.

      Long version: it comes down to two factors.

      First factor: space. General retailers don't have lots of space for comic books. They don't even have lots of space for periodicals of any kind, and there are already lots of other periodicals that still sell far better than comic books. Cosmopolitan outsells the entire comic book market every month. The NYT outsells the monthly output of the entire comic book market every day, more or less. That makes those publications far more valuable to retailers (but also to advertisers, which is another factor: attracting enough ads to make it worthwhile to print your periodical without having lots of ads that are fully irrelevant to the reader or actively irritating).

      But if you consider that one large publisher like Image, DC or Marvel can be putting out 50 titles a week, and those titles will sell a few thousand to people who know they exist and are actively looking for stuff like that, particularly with crossovers that have become the heart of the big 2's output, it's clearly not worthwhile for general retailers to give up that space for low-selling convoluted titles.

      • 10 months ago
        Anonymous

        alright Cinemaphile redpill me on what the frick this even means in the wider industry.

        Will comics actually start showing up outside of specialty shops and bargain isles again or what.

        Second factor: sale or return. DC experimented with this in the early weeks of Rebirth and got hosed: but it's the standard for all general periodical sales. You the retailer pay a deposit, the publisher sends you periodicals, any that don't sell get pulped (the publisher gets some money back from that), you keep a percentage of any sales and don't get stuck with old stock. This is WILDLY different to the direct market where retailers take on all that risk themselves and most books almost certainly don't sell anything like their Diamond numbers to actual consumers. They make their money back through speculation (variants, signed, sell for more than they paid for the copies they needed to buy to acquire that 1 in X variant). Many LCS owners are simply comic book collectors from the 90s who never really got out of the bubble (and their stores can often simply be extensions of their collections).

        General retailers aren't going to accept anything less than SOR (DC getting hosed was because they let LCS owners order like they were ordering direct, so they all went for the high-value variants and sent the rest straight back, not a flaw with SOR itself).

        Short of kids' titles and other isolated "universes", or licensed material (RIP IDW), general retailers don't see anything in comic book publishing that's worth carrying.

        • 10 months ago
          Anonymous

          That seems like a mistake on DC's part. Surely comic publishers could make SOR work if they make it a separate distribution channel just for basic new issue comics and just for general retailers. Let the shitty, broken retail market keep its shitty broken model, if you're not tied to Diamond anymore you can basically do what you want, couldn't you?

    • 10 months ago
      Anonymous

      Nope. Only stuff you’ll find in the casual world are Archie books in supermarkets.

    • 10 months ago
      Anonymous

      lol no why would it when they don’t sell well there

  6. 10 months ago
    Anonymous

    Cinemaphile have been telling me for years that the problem with comics was the Diamond monopoly on distribution, well the diamond monopoly is clearly over but comics are still mostly shit that barely sells.

    Maybe the problem was the content of the product and how costumers are treated all along and not distribution like Cinemaphile used to claim.

    • 10 months ago
      Anonymous

      https://www.comichron.com/yearlycomicssales.html
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heroes_World_Distribution
      Comics have been dying since the late 90s, and a big part of the problem is the existing consumer base, or rather that pandering to the existing consumer base, which is not a replenishing one, is the only way to sell superhero comics. If by content you mean not putting out wall to wall capeshit then sure but otherwise, no superhero content in the world is going to reverse the decline and the decline was going on back in the 2000s when you probably loved the content.

      Also book channel distribution is already having a big impact, there's data already posted in this thread that shows that.

      • 10 months ago
        Anonymous

        >or rather that pandering to the existing consumer base, which is not a replenishing one
        Oh frick off this is such a bullshit excuse, every time its always Big Business blaming the consumer for their moronic business decision and morons like you lapping it up without question.
        >oh we cant grow anymore and its our fans fault
        Well then write something new? Oh wait your new fans dont appreciate your garbage writing either.
        The truth is they haven't written shit worth introducing people to. Their existing consumer base is ashamed to introduce anyone new if they havent already quietly left because of how terrible the writing has gotten.

        • 10 months ago
          Anonymous

          >Big Business blaming the consumer for their moronic business decision
          Do you see many zoomers in your LCS? I'm not saying it's not the fault of the businesses or that the way out of the problem is to blame the fans. But I am saying that if the Big 2 get stuck pandering to their existing readership for the next 20 years, which is always what you types seem to be suggesting they do, that there won't be a Big 2 as we know them for very long. 'The fans' that you guys think need to be constantly catered to and respected and given whatever they want forever are gen x and boomers mainly, it's not a growing fanbase, it's a dying one. I'm in my late 20s and I'm young by capeshit reader standards. Obviously the solution is not to put a bunch of faux-diversity in everything and flip the fans off on twitter and I have no problem with there being some books that give hardcore cape fans what they want. The key thing though is to expand into new demographics (age demos, racial demos, national demos, different demos in terms of the genre a consumer base wants to see) and if there is ever a serious attempt at that at the Big 2 you people will howl about how your childhood is being destroyed.

          >Well then write something new? Oh wait your new fans dont appreciate your garbage writing either.
          Where did I say otherwise? I'm one of the people from last thread who was arguing exactly this in the last thread, that woke 'diversity' doesn't actually appeal to new audiences, that it's just what white liberals want to see. That doesn't change the fact that American comics as they exist today do not have a healthy consumer base and that that consumer base needs to be expanded. You guys don't want it to be expanded because anything besides 90% of comics coming out in a given month being what you grew up reading is offensive to you, the wokies pretend to be expanding it but actually they're just fighting a moronic culture war battle that nobody outside the US even cares about.

          • 10 months ago
            Anonymous

            The last east vs west thread I mean, got my threads mixed up.

          • 10 months ago
            Anonymous

            >But I am saying that if the Big 2 get stuck pandering to their existing readership for the next 20 years,
            For some reason you seem to think that you can't pander and expand at the same time.
            First Its not stuck for shit, they can be brave and write new comics instead of reusing the existing ones, the truth is theyre too cheap to hire more writers and print more books because theyre afraid of failure thats why they pander to the existing readership.
            Think about how other industry expand and grow lets take Cinemaphileidya for example, a product comes out the product is good, word of mouth spreads, next game they invest more in marketing, fixing up flaws and casualizing the game for newer audiences. They sell gangbusters.
            Marvel and DC has attempted to do this multiple times, but their new books and heroes suck donkey dick. You know it and I know it. The crux of the problem is that theyre not good characters and writers they hire are terrible and trying to use them to jumpstart their careers into MCU and television.
            So what do these companies do? They stoke controversy in an attempt to break into the new market and new generation of readers by having a new legacy character take up the mantle of the old character and it largely works but the fundamental problem has not changed
            Just because interest is gathered doesnt mean its kept, and nothing kills interest more than a shoddy written book.
            > it's not a growing fanbase
            But it is an existing one and all businesses need an existing base to spread goodwill, how the frick am i supposed to spread interest to comics when i have writing like Pic related? I wouldnt share that shit even with someone i hate much less friend i'd be a laughing stock.
            > if there is ever a serious attempt at that at the Big 2 you people will howl
            And why do you think that is? you see heres the problem, you think people hate diversity because theyre racists and/or shits and giggles.

            • 10 months ago
              Anonymous

              >For some reason you seem to think that you can't pander and expand at the same time.
              I explicitly said otherwise, I have no problem with there being books that longtime cape fans (of which I sort of am one) want to see. But you can only publish so many books in a month. If you went into an LCS next month and half the rack was completely new stuff, large chunks of that half actually tailored for different demos, not just woke reskins on capeshit that's marketed at different demos that don't care about it, then you'd freak out just like you freak out about wokeness. I don't say that existing readers are scum or need to get lost but if you want expansion then you do need to be willing to accept a smaller slice of the pie.
              >their new books and heroes suck donkey dick. You know it and I know it. The crux of the problem is that theyre not good characters and writers they hire are terrible and trying to use them to jumpstart their careers into MCU and television
              No argument there but if that's the main or only problem then why were sales in the tank in the late 90s and 2000s too? That was before these dumb woke OCs. Also people aren't embarrassed to play video games, even younger people who see manga as a normal hobby often see American comics as cringe. There's also much easier access to a much wider range of video games. So it's easier for word of mouth to spread in that case, even a really good comic that generates organic buzz is going to reach less people than a good video game would.

              • 10 months ago
                Anonymous

                >see American comics as cringe.
                And why is that? Because its not the nerds fault no matter how much you want to throw this at our feet. Japans otaku have us beat, yet somehow people can still see manga as a funtime.
                > even a really good comic that generates organic buzz is going to reach less people than a good video game would.
                of course i have to agree because of how small we've become, but we had books that generate good buzz but only for writers long retired, Frank Millers Batman year one
                For me is timeless and i have no shame introducing it to people who want to get into Batman.

                >They stoke controversy in an attempt to break into the new market
                It's not a serious attempt to break into any new market though because it's the same exact thing. Taylor's Jon is not specifically targeted at gays at all, it's a straight white liberals reskin of a Superman comic. Kamala Khan is not specifically targeted at Muslims at all, it's a non-Muslim white liberal's idea of what Muslims want to read (which is just capeshit plus 'representation'). See what I mean? If you want to break into a new market then you need to understand the beliefs, tastes, and interests of that market. What the Big 2 have been doing is not really expansion, it's just clickbait and virtue signaling.
                >I wouldnt share that shit even with someone i hate much less friend i'd be a laughing stock.
                Would you honestly share Rebirth Supes or Johns GL or whatever you consider good capeshit? Goes back to the word of mouth thing. Also, it's not the job of the consumers to break into new markets on behalf of the business, any business who assumes that's going to happen will fail (or linger on indefinitely half-dead in this case).
                >And why do you think that is? you see heres the problem, you think people hate diversity because theyre racists and/or shits and giggles.
                You always assume you're talking to a woke liberal and the woke liberals always assume they're talking to a GOP type conservative lol. I legitimately do not care about race one way or the other and I was calling some redditor a moron for doing exactly what you're accusing me of in the last thread.

                >It's not a serious attempt
                No it is a serious attempt, not in your mind of course because you can see pandering bullshit a mile away but in the minds of writers who suck themselves off that was a serious attempt. Never have i seen a more smug patting themselves on the back then i have for some of these characters and how they made history.
                I thank christ that no one gives a shit about my minority so i wont ever experience this cringe.
                > it's not the job of the consumers to break into new markets
                Its not no but thats how it works, Companies count on it for growth. As they always have.

                You have me confused with someone else and so operated under an assumption and thus i too operated on my own. But the crux of the matter is its on DC and Marvel to write interesting things worth reading. That means focusing on writers worth a damn.
                Breaking new ground without discarding the base should be whats pursued. But they should clearly have a good character and a good story before even attempting.

              • 10 months ago
                Anonymous

                >And why is that? Because its not the nerds fault no matter how much you want to throw this at our feet. Japans otaku have us beat, yet somehow people can still see manga as a funtime.
                I don't know much about manga, I barely read it, but at least with US comics I think the problem is that people associate it with childishness. Which I do think nerd culture and superheroes contribute to. I read the latter sometimes, it can be a fun genre, not saying the cons need to be closed at gunpoint either, if nerds want to do their thing then fine. But it's hard to deny that a big component of nerd culture is based in childhood nostalgia.
                >Frank Millers Batman year one
                Yeah true, in the 80s and 90s there were a lot more comics breaking through to the mainstream. Still happens actually, it's just not stuff that Marvel and DC are putting out anymore.
                >No it is a serious attempt, not in your mind of course because you can see pandering bullshit a mile away but in the minds of writers who suck themselves off that was a serious attempt. Never have i seen a more smug patting themselves on the back then i have for some of these characters and how they made history.
                Maybe but idk, I really think you're being too charitable with these people. We can at least say it wasn't a serious attempt in an objective sense. If the intention wasn't to stoke controversy then it was dumb, naive libs thinking that everyone agrees with them and the reason other demos aren't reading is because they haven't seen some token OC. Which honestly is worse than sensationalism in a way, it's certainly a lot less intelligent.
                >You have me confused with someone else and so operated under an assumption and thus i too operated on my own
                Seems to have been the case.

              • 10 months ago
                Anonymous

                Behold the japanese equivalent of the nerd. This is known to any one who enages with manga to the point they reach out to the fandoms.
                Yet Manga continues to grow even with these walking danger zones reminding everyone of the worst of manga excess.
                Comics are cringe because a large portion of new comics are cringe, the art is all over the place and so is the writing youre paying 5 bucks a comic. For a 18 page average hit or miss compared to mangas 20 bucks for 180 page average with so many chapters theres bound to be a good one.

                The vast majority of Muslims globally are agreed that Muslim women are obligated to wear the hijab. That includes the vast majority of Muslim women globally.

                >have had real life friends of various religions who didn't take after their parents even while living with them
                It happens but it shouldn't be glorified or encouraged. The Islamic response is actually to be nicer to an oppressive parent the worse they are to you. And the sense I got was that there was a religious angle to this rebellion too where she didn't like how traditional her parents were. It's like expecting a Catholic to read a novel written by Richard Dawkins or something.

                [...]
                >But the crux of the matter is its on DC and Marvel to write interesting things worth reading. That means focusing on writers worth a damn.
                I'd still be annoyed at the lack of variety, although honestly the situation is pretty good today if you include indies. But yeah, writing has declined a lot. In the 40s-70s a lot of new comic book writers were coming from prose fiction background, as readers or writers or both. I think that's less true today so they know less about storytelling and are literally worse at using the language.

                >I'd still be annoyed at the lack of variety,
                Of course there needs to be more than capeshit on them not the readers. You write a good book people will pay attention, you write shit? Well you'll get the wrong attention.
                > prose fiction background
                I wouldn't know but i know quality and something is lacking with these new stories.

            • 10 months ago
              Anonymous

              >They stoke controversy in an attempt to break into the new market
              It's not a serious attempt to break into any new market though because it's the same exact thing. Taylor's Jon is not specifically targeted at gays at all, it's a straight white liberals reskin of a Superman comic. Kamala Khan is not specifically targeted at Muslims at all, it's a non-Muslim white liberal's idea of what Muslims want to read (which is just capeshit plus 'representation'). See what I mean? If you want to break into a new market then you need to understand the beliefs, tastes, and interests of that market. What the Big 2 have been doing is not really expansion, it's just clickbait and virtue signaling.
              >I wouldnt share that shit even with someone i hate much less friend i'd be a laughing stock.
              Would you honestly share Rebirth Supes or Johns GL or whatever you consider good capeshit? Goes back to the word of mouth thing. Also, it's not the job of the consumers to break into new markets on behalf of the business, any business who assumes that's going to happen will fail (or linger on indefinitely half-dead in this case).
              >And why do you think that is? you see heres the problem, you think people hate diversity because theyre racists and/or shits and giggles.
              You always assume you're talking to a woke liberal and the woke liberals always assume they're talking to a GOP type conservative lol. I legitimately do not care about race one way or the other and I was calling some redditor a moron for doing exactly what you're accusing me of in the last thread.

              • 10 months ago
                Anonymous

                Or rather, I was calling the redditor a moron because he called me a Nazi for saying that the third world doesn't wanna read about pride and whatnot. I've already said a lot of times that I'm not calling for diversity in the sense of putting a bunch of token characters all over capeshit. Actual diversity would be if you had series specifically written for hispanics for example, by talented hispanic writers themselves, and if those series didn't have any of the trappings of typical American comics. Replacing Captain America with Captain Speedy Gonzalez is not going to interest someone in Peru or even southern California because capeshit is already targeted at a specific demographic more or less, it's mainly white Americans reading this stuff and everyone else is varying levels of uninterested.

              • 10 months ago
                Anonymous

                Ms. Marvel actually sold pretty well because it had a writer on it that was Muslim and experienced an entire different culture for awhile (Egypt) instead of just painting a picture of what the PC crowd wanted.

                You can track it going to shit exactly when the higher ups noticed it and started cramming Ms. M into every crossover book they could think of at the cost of her own cast.

                Point being, legit writing a good story first about a character who happens to be X sells vs. regurgitating the same cape shit with a new color rapper.

              • 10 months ago
                Anonymous

                >Ms. Marvel actually sold pretty well because it had a writer on it that was Muslim and experienced an entire different culture for awhile (Egypt) instead of just painting a picture of what the PC crowd wanted.
                Wilson wrote Invisible Kingdom right? I liked that quite a bit so I won't say she's a horrible writer or anything, haven't read and won't read Kamala so I can't speak to that. My issue with it is that Kamala isn't dressed the way a Muslim woman should be dressed and I've heard that she rebels against her 'overly conservative' father and stuff like that. That's not the kind of values that Muslims want to see in their entertainment or their kids entertainment. Won't call Wilson a fake Muslim but I hope she's grown a lot since then.

              • 10 months ago
                Anonymous

                Can't speak to that in terms of writing quality I mean. You only need to see the cover of the first trade to speak to it in terms of saying that it's not very Islamic.

              • 10 months ago
                Anonymous

                Muslims aren't a uni culture in how they act. Its like saying it makes no sense for a kid in America raised by Catholics to rebel against their parents. How serious people practice Islam will vary across faiths and people.

                I haven't read the books either, but do recall it selling incredibly well during that period and have had real life friends of various religions who didn't take after their parents even while living with them.

              • 10 months ago
                Anonymous

                The vast majority of Muslims globally are agreed that Muslim women are obligated to wear the hijab. That includes the vast majority of Muslim women globally.

                >have had real life friends of various religions who didn't take after their parents even while living with them
                It happens but it shouldn't be glorified or encouraged. The Islamic response is actually to be nicer to an oppressive parent the worse they are to you. And the sense I got was that there was a religious angle to this rebellion too where she didn't like how traditional her parents were. It's like expecting a Catholic to read a novel written by Richard Dawkins or something.

                >see American comics as cringe.
                And why is that? Because its not the nerds fault no matter how much you want to throw this at our feet. Japans otaku have us beat, yet somehow people can still see manga as a funtime.
                > even a really good comic that generates organic buzz is going to reach less people than a good video game would.
                of course i have to agree because of how small we've become, but we had books that generate good buzz but only for writers long retired, Frank Millers Batman year one
                For me is timeless and i have no shame introducing it to people who want to get into Batman.
                [...]
                >It's not a serious attempt
                No it is a serious attempt, not in your mind of course because you can see pandering bullshit a mile away but in the minds of writers who suck themselves off that was a serious attempt. Never have i seen a more smug patting themselves on the back then i have for some of these characters and how they made history.
                I thank christ that no one gives a shit about my minority so i wont ever experience this cringe.
                > it's not the job of the consumers to break into new markets
                Its not no but thats how it works, Companies count on it for growth. As they always have.

                You have me confused with someone else and so operated under an assumption and thus i too operated on my own. But the crux of the matter is its on DC and Marvel to write interesting things worth reading. That means focusing on writers worth a damn.
                Breaking new ground without discarding the base should be whats pursued. But they should clearly have a good character and a good story before even attempting.

                >But the crux of the matter is its on DC and Marvel to write interesting things worth reading. That means focusing on writers worth a damn.
                I'd still be annoyed at the lack of variety, although honestly the situation is pretty good today if you include indies. But yeah, writing has declined a lot. In the 40s-70s a lot of new comic book writers were coming from prose fiction background, as readers or writers or both. I think that's less true today so they know less about storytelling and are literally worse at using the language.

              • 10 months ago
                Anonymous

                >The vast majority of Muslims globally are agreed that Muslim women are obligated to wear the hijab. That includes the vast majority of Muslim women globally.

                You may need to get your eyes checked if you can't tell the differences in how extreme some sects push it. We're talking simple hajib to full on Taliban difference.

                Pic related. Need address that has church goers dressing like this.

                >encourage
                You also shouldn't go fight crime at the ripe age of 10 but we have plenty of comics with white kids doing so w/o going on and on about how bad their parents are. I'd also argue its probably a bad idea to turn teens into a paramilitary group as well.

                The book isn't meant to preach values or tell people how to live their life. Its to tell cape shit comic stories with a character who also has an Islamic background and the sorts of twists that brings.

              • 10 months ago
                Anonymous

                >We're talking simple hajib to full on Taliban difference
                I meant what I said, the vast majority of Muslims are agreed that Muslim women are obligated to wear the hijab. The 'full on Taliban' is not the hijab, it's the burqa, and from what I understand, the Taliban are some of the only ones to consider it obligatory. Might be a Pashtunwali (Pashtun tribal custom) thing or a Deobandi (a Pakistani movement that Taliban is influenced by) thing or just a Taliban thing, they're atypical in a few ways.

                >You also shouldn't go fight crime at the ripe age of 10 but we have plenty of comics with white kids doing so w/o going on and on about how bad their parents are. I'd also argue its probably a bad idea to turn teens into a paramilitary group as well.
                And you can give those to your kids if you want, nobody's stopping you. But entertainment that promotes rebelling against your parents looks different to other groups. It's socially and religiously subversive, it's like asking me to pay for poison that might taste great but will weaken me in the long run.

              • 10 months ago
                Anonymous

                >Kamala Khan is not specifically targeted at Muslims at all, it's a non-Muslim white liberal's idea of what Muslims want to read (which is just capeshit plus 'representation').

                Kamala was literally created by a female Muslim writer and a female Pakistani editor. Intended to to appeal to everyone. It’s patently clear that all this vitriolic b***hing about Kamala from one thread to the next that revolves around how she can not be a real proper and correctly done Muslim character comes from a bigoted mind who refuses to accept that such a character can appeal to Muslims and other groups equally. It’s pathetic.

            • 10 months ago
              Anonymous

              >continued
              > if there is ever a serious attempt at that at the Big 2 you people will howl
              When in reality its because they are destroying the existing hero and tarnishing the mantle. They cant retire into the sunset with their head held high, we cant remember them at their best they have to be smeared on such a level that you hate them as a person.
              Thats the new writing for the majority of these new characters.
              Anon i've already left comic, because the old and new heroes are literal garbage tier human beings theyre not "Heroes" that word should never be used to describe narcissistic children because thats we these characters are Children.
              >the solution is not to put a bunch of faux-diversity in everything and flip the fans off on twitter
              Thats what they do thats what they always do largely for the controversy.
              >is offensive to you,
              Not because of the culture war, the shit writing is offensive to me, and its not even diversity characters that made me leave.
              Its when the Illuminati killed and committed genocide and i was supposed to root for these monsters. Thats when i gave up on marvel

              >For some reason you seem to think that you can't pander and expand at the same time.
              I explicitly said otherwise, I have no problem with there being books that longtime cape fans (of which I sort of am one) want to see. But you can only publish so many books in a month. If you went into an LCS next month and half the rack was completely new stuff, large chunks of that half actually tailored for different demos, not just woke reskins on capeshit that's marketed at different demos that don't care about it, then you'd freak out just like you freak out about wokeness. I don't say that existing readers are scum or need to get lost but if you want expansion then you do need to be willing to accept a smaller slice of the pie.
              >their new books and heroes suck donkey dick. You know it and I know it. The crux of the problem is that theyre not good characters and writers they hire are terrible and trying to use them to jumpstart their careers into MCU and television
              No argument there but if that's the main or only problem then why were sales in the tank in the late 90s and 2000s too? That was before these dumb woke OCs. Also people aren't embarrassed to play video games, even younger people who see manga as a normal hobby often see American comics as cringe. There's also much easier access to a much wider range of video games. So it's easier for word of mouth to spread in that case, even a really good comic that generates organic buzz is going to reach less people than a good video game would.

              >I explicitly said otherwise,
              No you didn't you operated under the assumption that i hate diversity because its the culture war and not because i hate shit writing and how writers makes the "heroes" of recent year psychotic pieces of shit that should be put down like rabid animals.
              > But you can only publish so many books in a month.
              Please, spare me. Those movies makes gangbusters but poor indie Marvel and DC can't spare a dime. What a joke.
              > then you'd freak out just like you freak out
              No i wouldn't anon, go to any manga website and look at that page filled with all different genres each one competing with each other. Are you freaking out? No. Why would you, you filter the genre and find the one you like after flipping through a few chapters. Just like you would do for a book in a book store or library.

              • 10 months ago
                Anonymous

                >Anon i've already left comic, because the old and new heroes are literal garbage tier human beings theyre not "Heroes" that word should never be used to describe narcissistic children because thats we these characters are Children.
                Eh, I don't disagree here but the genre always had pretty bad morality. Even in the 40s, Wonder Woman was dressed in a way you wouldn't let your wife or daughter dress. Claremont X-Men is full of weird sexual stuff and sleazy love affairs. If I'm gonna read capeshit I prefer capeshit that embraces the absurdity of the genre and doesn't try to make something serious or realistic or grimdark when it can't be. So I think we agree here, I just also think people have rose tinted glasses on this point.
                >No you didn't you operated under the assumption that i hate diversity because its the culture war and not because i hate shit writing and how writers makes the "heroes" of recent year psychotic pieces of shit that should be put down like rabid animals.
                The only time I even used the word diversity was when pointing out that what the woke people (who you repeatedly accused me of being one of lol, I'm very far from it) isn't actually diverse. It's just throwing a bunch of brown people into the same old uncreative garbage. Actual diversity in the real sense of the word would be diversifying the line and making comics that actually appeal to different groups. The woke capeshit only appeals to white liberal redditors, no new markets involved.
                >No i wouldn't anon, go to any manga website and look at that page filled with all different genres each one competing with each other. Are you freaking out? No. Why would you, you filter the genre and find the one you like after flipping through a few chapters.
                Well then I've made an incorrect assumption because that's exactly the correct attitude and exactly the kind of direction I think the Big 2 and the industry and medium in general should take. More variety, everyone has their own thing.

        • 10 months ago
          Anonymous

          >every time its always Big Business blaming the consumer for their moronic business decision and morons like you lapping it up without question.
          Pandering to a hyper niche subculture for decades WAS the moronic business decision.

          • 10 months ago
            Anonymous

            You make it seem like within this century not once could they have chased course
            Selling Marvel away didnt bring any money to write new books no
            Being owned by disney meant no new business decisions
            Tell me something anon, how is that even though these movies made so much money the comic book sales never really increased? Why is that?
            Its because even when these properties are making money comics cant market themselves to the mainstream.
            Nor does disney have any real plans to.
            But yes this is all the hyper niche subcultures fault, if only we didnt exist im sure marvel would have been sold for 10 billion instead

        • 10 months ago
          Anonymous

          >Well then write something new? Oh wait your new fans dont appreciate your garbage writing either.

          Talk about projection. Even when they’ve tried to broaden their publishing line WITH WHITE HETEROSEXUAL CONTENT you don’t buy it or appreciate it and when the title(s) inevitably get cancelled you complain that they aren’t doing anything. Rinse and repeat.

          Comic fans are so goddamn entitled little spoiled brats who want every single comic to be targeted to them specifically and then whine that more isn’t being done to broaden the spectrum and more people aren’t brought to reading comics, even though you literally act insanely hostile if any such attempt is done and other groups are marketed.

          Look how much you motherfrickers list your mind when DC started doing YA graphic novels and one character was large size girl. You wouldn’t stop b***hing about it for months that it was wokeshit ruining comics even though it was never aimed at you, it was out of continuity and easily ignorable, and the if you read it it was entirely inoffensive but you wouldn’t stop complaining about it and acting like it was DC spitting at you because you yourself who were not the target demographic didn’t find it appealing.

          It’s nothing but me me me me me me. You don’t care about bringing in new people, you want your secret little club to fail rather more different people reading them.

          • 10 months ago
            Anonymous

            Call me crazy but I think the solution would be if we reached a point creator owned titles in general could be more profitable and have an easier time finding an audience
            Have those writers and artists who want to concentrate on "wokeshit" be able to do so without piggybacking on established brands and thrive in their own corner separate from everyone else like every other fricking medium
            Unless they're some diehard fan who genuinely wants to leave an imprint on established brand with "wokeshit", they're gonna take the option that allows for greater creative control and can earn them more money
            I despise East vs West debates but manga does it just fine
            There's a thriving market for people who want queer content but it's for its own niche and can succeed there
            Call me stupid for thinking this, if I could be corrected please do so

            • 10 months ago
              Anonymous

              >wokeshit wokeshit wokeshit

              Oh for fricks sake

              • 10 months ago
                Anonymous

                I put it in quotations because what even constitutes as "wokeshit" varies from person to person and it's largely become a buzzword

  7. 10 months ago
    Anonymous

    beast wars

  8. 10 months ago
    Anonymous

    >newspaper died
    >magazines died
    >why aren't there comics on the shelves next to where they were with the magazines and newspapers

  9. 10 months ago
    Anonymous

    Just copy what manga does. Maybe that could work.

    • 10 months ago
      Anonymous

      Manga sells well in Japan partially because their printing industry is exponentially better than ours

      • 10 months ago
        Anonymous

        >printing industry is exponentially better than ours
        Should we make our printing industry act more like Japans?

        • 10 months ago
          Anonymous

          We need non-moronic public transportation for that.

        • 10 months ago
          Anonymous

          It's more logistics than anything, and that's mostly down to Japan being very compact and urbanised.

    • 10 months ago
      Anonymous

      It could...work?
      DC just release adventure comics, All star comics , More Fun comics... With like 4 or 5 short heroes story and Marvel releasing Tales to Astronish, Journey into Mystery,...
      It would work and then release the volume of each hero and the one that sells continue and the one that wont is get axed

  10. 10 months ago
    Anonymous

    For a split second I thought the thumbnail was Mr. Enter's avatar with the trenchcoat

  11. 10 months ago
    Anonymous

    If Diamond dies then cool

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