Mark Waid

Is Kingdom Come his only good comic? Everything else I've read by him is mediocre, including Flash and World's Finest.

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  1. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    >Kingdom Come
    >good
    What the frick anon. Most people will readily agree that's his worst comic by far.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      It's easily his best comic. Maybe "good" is pushing it.

      Kingdom Come isn't even that good.

      also frick you, you killed a thread I wanted to reply to with this bullshit

      a

      What thread?

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      No one has ever said that.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Who said that? Why do they think it is the worst?

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        A lot of people seethe over the ripple effects it had on canon, like Wonder Woman of Murder or Captain Atom always exploding because this was the only Wonder Woman or Captain Atom book a number of writers actually bothered to read.

        What's this guy's deal? Never read a comic by him. I just know he was writing Shazam and World's Finest recently and is writing the new DC event. Plus an anon once linked to a funny bit about him spazzing over Man of Steel.

        He's an autist who loves the comics he read as a child in the 60s and 70s and does a decent modern pastiche of those styles. Personality-wise, a massive butthole.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          >other writers adapt elseworld things
          You mean they are angry with the new writers that they just copy Kingdom Come.

          Massive silver age moralhomosexualry. KILLING BAD SUPERMAN GOOD.

          That doesnt mean it is bad. Thats kinda what every book in the top ten is. Morality is important for stories, otherwise you just get a Rick and Morty version.
          It is even today a good book.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        Massive silver age moralhomosexualry. KILLING BAD SUPERMAN GOOD.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          >KILLING BAD SUPERMAN GOOD.
          not only was he perfectly correct
          its a sign of how bad the 90s were that such a simple thing needed to be restated

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            The Silver Age was a mistake.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Kingdom Come isn't even that good.

      also frick you, you killed a thread I wanted to reply to with this bullshit

      a

      Kingdom Come is trash carried entirely by Alex Ross. If literally anyone else had illustrated it, it would never have been acclaimed.

      This. Kingdom Come is trash.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Kingdom Come isn't even that good.

      also frick you, you killed a thread I wanted to reply to with this bullshit

      a

      Massive silver age moralhomosexualry. KILLING BAD SUPERMAN GOOD.

      Woke cringe started seeping in his books and he got into arguments with people online. The last few years have been free of both though.

      [...]
      [...]
      This. Kingdom Come is trash.

      Notice how nobody here had these opinions until Waid started being liberal on Twitter.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        Plenty of people didn't care for kingdom come before that. Not other anons fault you're only familiar comics opinions that get spammed on shitty top ten list

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          >Plenty of people didn't care for kingdom come before that
          Nice fanfiction zoomie

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            Wonder Woman fans were definitely sour about it right from the start. I'm sure many of the people sending those 90s extreme antiheroes to the top of the charts did not care for the message, see

            Massive silver age moralhomosexualry. KILLING BAD SUPERMAN GOOD.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            It won every Eisner it was up for EXCEPT for writing.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          Y'all are rewriting history. People who criticized Kingdom Come in the past did so for Ross's static art, not Waid's storytelling.

          It feels like people have reversed course on Waid in the last few years because of his online antics / more transparent politics. And I'm pretty convinced it's simply contraniasm by a younger generation of readers who are judging his works in hindsight rather than understanding them in context. Like seriously, accusing the man of writing movie pitches because Spawn and Tank Girl were turned into low-budget movies barely on par with Marvel's early attempts at Nick Fury and Punisher? Seriously? Do they not also realize that there was a fairly successful Flash and Superboy show on television before things like the DCAU came out? Adaptations or franchising has always been an option for comics since MEGU dolls in the 70s. What a ridiculous accusation to hold against Waid specifically.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            I want to add on to this by specifying that I don't actually like Waid's output so much. I just feel it's ridiculous to level these accusations at him. His stories may not always deserve critical acclaim, but let's not pretend the guy is forcing IPs like Millar or phoning it in like Lobdell. He's an above average capes writer who pinch hits when it's needed. Again, guy is an editor first and foremost, and it shows in his writing. He's Byrne or Thomas for the 90s/00s generation. That's not a bad thing.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            First of all if you've always been in the mindset that "Actually silver age morality is totally deep and interesting" type of superhero comics back then are actually good, then it's you're bad taste that is causing you to think Kingdom come has never had detractors. Any story that's a writer going through hoops and hurdles to defend why these characters don't kill or aren't edgy fricking sucks. Secret of all the writing for adaptations accusation was a general statement about the industry as a whole and thirdly, you are fricking stupid if the you think the most popular DC and marvel characters getting an adaptation once a decade contradicts asserting that the up turn in comic adaptions in the 90s had an effect on the industry. If any one is re writing history it's anons itt saying that Batman having serials in the forties is the same as The Mask or Spawn getting cartoons and feature length films in the nineties.

            • 1 month ago
              Anonymous

              I think because you're young, you assume that critically panned late-90s film adaptations were more popular than serials, just because movies are more popular than serials today.

              I promise you that is not the case.

            • 1 month ago
              Anonymous

              What you still don't seem to understand is that your perspective is entirely retroactive. NO ONE was saying that shit in the 90s.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >People who criticized Kingdom Come in the past did so for Ross's static art, not Waid's storytelling.

            THIS IS THE ONLY POSTER IN THE THREAD WHO ACTUALLY KNOWS WHAT THEY'RE TALKING ABOUT.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          >Plenty of people didn't care for kingdom come before that
          Nice fanfiction zoomie

          Wonder Woman fans were definitely sour about it right from the start. I'm sure many of the people sending those 90s extreme antiheroes to the top of the charts did not care for the message, see [...]

          It's kind hard to qualify this stuff because it can be difficult to find individual posts about it.
          I do recall Mightgodking(remember him/his site?) saying he didn't like it

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            >I do recall Mightgodking(remember him/his site?
            Sounds like a tripgay, therefore there's a 99% chance every post he made was purposely contrarian just to troll.

            • 1 month ago
              Anonymous

              no it was one of the comics bloggers when that was a thing on the internet

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        >notice how nobody hated him until he made his real opinions known to every one

        This isn't a clever gotcha as you think it is

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      >Most people will agree with my contrarian zoomzoom opinion

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Kingdom Come is good because of the fancy art, not because of his writing. Actually true of World's finest as well.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      No that was his Daredevil comics

  2. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Kingdom Come isn't even that good.

    also frick you, you killed a thread I wanted to reply to with this bullshit

    a

  3. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Waid's comics are like a good Saturday morning cartoon. Which is basically what capeshit boils down to, that's what makes his stuff good.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      His stuff isn't good, though.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      I don't like Waid but this sums him up pretty well. His writing isn't deep it's harmless entertainment.

  4. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    What's this guy's deal? Never read a comic by him. I just know he was writing Shazam and World's Finest recently and is writing the new DC event. Plus an anon once linked to a funny bit about him spazzing over Man of Steel.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Used to be a HUGE deal in the 90s and 2000s. Opinions on him are MUCH more mixed since the mid-2010s.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        Thanks. Was there something in particular that caused opinions to shift?

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          Woke cringe started seeping in his books and he got into arguments with people online. The last few years have been free of both though.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            He was worrying me for awhile there. Seems like he went over board for how little he had to gain from that all that drama.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          The main reason was that his books were SHIT. He became the ultimate "old man trying to be hip with the kids" writer. It was fricking embarrassing. His stuff for Marvel in the 2010s was trash.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            Seems he's doing better at DC at least. The upcoming event will be the first of his work that I actually read

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          Social media let people poke holes in his work. Before Kingdom Come was held up as a masterpiece and while it has some good parts it fricks over a lot of characters for what is essentially just a Superman story.

  5. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    I liked flash and green lantern: the brave and the bold

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Kingdom Come isn't the type of story that interests me, personally, and I'm not at all a fan of Ross, all his bodies of all those friends he uses to pose are clearly middle-aged people with too many pounds on them to be wearing skin-tight outfits and even when he tries to de-age their actual faces, it ends up not working out that well.

      I've never read his Flash run but people praise it frequently. I did like the Flash and GL mini-he did like this anon and some of the other stuff he did around that same time.

  6. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    I liked Irredeemable

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      It's okay but I feel kind of drags in the middle.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Good classic I actually forgot about. One of my favorites.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      First half was great schlock. The rest wasn't

  7. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Kingdom Come is trash carried entirely by Alex Ross. If literally anyone else had illustrated it, it would never have been acclaimed.

  8. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    his first vol daredevil run was good

  9. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Mark Waid's Daredevil features the single greatest superhero comic book story of the previous decade.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      His DD was the lowest selling DD run ever up to that point. In spite of its online cult following, it really was not a good run.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        The New York issues were good. Went to hell when he moved to San Francisco out of misguided nostalgia.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          It turned to irredeemable garbage after the Ikari arc. NOTHING after that point was even close to being readable.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            If you don't like his Daredevil you probably don't like Daredevil as a whole.

            Ikari wasn't even the main focus of the arc you dumbass

            • 1 month ago
              Anonymous

              His Daredevil nose dives after the Taryvon Martin arc.

  10. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    I haven't read birthright in over a decade but that probably still holds up to be fine.

    52 still an all time comic.

    I read his FF run last month and it was alright. Felt he could have done more with the doom stuff.

    His Daredevil has some downs but mostly is great.

    I also like parts of his Avengers and JLA runs.

    I think he had a period towards the end of his Marvel run where his stuff was mostly pretty bad but I think hes stepping it up again mostly recently. Its been nice to see.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      >I haven't read birthright in over a decade but that probably still holds up to be fine.
      The part where he says Superman is a vegetarian because he can see the life force of all living things was cringe even then, especially since beef bourguignon has been Clark's favorite food since 1976, something he himself acknowledged in Kingdom Come.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        That was from the Morrison/Waid/Millar Superman 2000 pitch. I think it's a fine take on Superman to be a vegetarian.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          Morrison pushing his agenda that worked with Animal Man given the nature of his powers, but not Superman. He's a regular boy from Kansas who happens to have an extraordinary background that gave him extraordinary abilities.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          He's from a farm. There are ZERO vegetarian farmers. 100% guarantee that Clark had to put down animals while growing up. That lifestyle does not produce vegetarians. EVER.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      52 and Waid's FF are garbage.

  11. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    I rather liked the Return of Barry Allen and Incorruptible

  12. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Could've been about them fighting different villains with a mastermind behind them at the end. Instead it's just butthole jock Hal bullying wimpy nerd Aquaman and "CaN wE rEaLlY tRuSt MaRtIaN mAnHuNnTeR?" Followed by everyone else jobbing to aliens straight from a Filmation cartoon.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      I rather liked it.
      I didn't find the threats they went up against all that interesting, but I did like how the team interacted and conflicted with each other.
      >butthole jock Hal bullying wimpy nerd Aquaman
      I thought Aquaman laughing at Hal because he thought he was the leader was pretty funny

  13. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    It's very odd to see people call Kingdom Come trash, especially because it was held up as such a great miniseries in the 90s and 00s. I think people are just being contrarians, and take for granted how groundbreaking it was at the time.

    Anyways, I feel Waid is Byrne minus all the weird fetishes and need to autistically explain everything.

    He has a tendency to write titles at times when they're at their nadir, and his works shine in comparison to what was written before. It's his ability as a skilled editor to identify what titles are missing, and provide that to audiences (see: lighthearted Daredevil after going through the ringer of Bendis/Brubaker/Diggle). The stories probably don't rank as all-time greats, but I think they successfully capture the essence of the characters. He understands the craft of writing comics, and he should be commended for that.

    Seriously, it's weird seeing people shit on his writing. I dislike the fights he starts online at times, but he's a good writer who has more hits than misses. It's disingenuous to call him shit just to knock him down a few notches.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      >especially because it was held up as such a great miniseries in the 90s and 00s
      A lot of critical darlings from this era have been reevaluated or outright forgotten. History has not been kind to Gen X writers. Look at how people see Garth Ennis now, or how Starman by James Robinson has been all but forgotten.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        imo this is due to gen xers being the first generation of writers who made comics with adaptations in mind. All those highly regarded mini series DC did back then like Long Halloween, Kingdom Come, Birthright feel like movie pitches or at least outlines for non comic material. It's not just writing for adaptations though. Guys from this era also started to disregard continuity and character histories at rapid fire speed when you look at the evolution of DC from them to now. Iirc they're was some kind of situation where DC wanted to give Joker a break in the comics, but then Jeph Loeb contradicted what was going on in the comics at the time, so joker could be in Hush. I'm spotty on the details, but I swear Hush had some kind of continuity problem people gave it shit for. Bl

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          I don't think it's necessarily that; making adaptations of Kingdom come or Preacher in the 90's was basically unfathomable given what he had at the time. but there is an attempt to be more cinematic at least, and strip things back to basics as to be less reliant on exact continuity.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            Is it unfathomable though? Comics seemed pretty hip in the 90s
            >Dcau hits the ground running with btas then follows up with stas
            >Spawn gets a feature film and HBO series
            >Maxx, The Tick, MIB, The Mask all got adaptations
            >Tank girl get a movie
            >Batman series runs throughout this era with discussion of bringing in Superman
            Seems like some of these guys might have had it on their mind. Obviously not as badly as late 2000s/early 2010s image though

            • 1 month ago
              Anonymous

              That’s all hindsight though. A lot of these comics were being written in 92-95. BTAS was a single series, the only cartoons the image stuff had gotten were aimed at kids, prestige R rated TV was barely a thing yet. Things changed quickly in 96 onward but point remains, guys like Garth Ennis didn’t think hitman or preacher would get movies or TV shows

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                It's not all hindsight though. If you were a guy writing stuff in the mid nineties and saw comics like The Maxx and Spawn get adult series or have your one off Batman story adapted into a btas episode, you'd probably get a little excited about your medium expanding into another one so rapidly. You keep bringing up Ennis and Preacher, but that's disingenuous because there's still tons of adaptations happening regardless if a writer knows what they are working on isn't meant for a larger audience like Ennis probably thought. That specific writer making stuff doesn't mean comics weren't becoming IP farms

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                The IP farm was there from the start. The first live action Batman serial was from 1943. Spider-Man debuted in 1962 and had his own cartoon in 1967.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                Okay and? That doesn't change the fact that it picked up significantly in the nineties. You're being disingenuous if you really can't wrap your mind about what I'm talking about. Kevin Smith had this fricking concept as a plotline in one of his movies even. It was definitely an idea floating around in writers and artists head more so than ever before

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                Okay and? That doesn't change the fact that it picked up significantly in the nineties. You're being disingenuous if you really can't wrap your mind about what I'm talking about. Kevin Smith had this fricking concept as a plotline in one of his movies even. It was definitely an idea floating around in writers and artists head more so than ever before

                That really wasn't how the industry operated until the 21st century and especially the 2010s.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                Again, KC, preacher, starman, all this zeitgeist started before those adaptation’s started going full swing. HBO spawn didn’t start until 97.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                Yeah but the mask came out in 94 and you listing comics that didn't get adaptations doesn't contradict anything I've been saying. Again it's completely disingenuous to say that the burst of adaptations in the nineties didn't effect anything

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          >Guys from this era also started to disregard continuity and character histories at rapid fire speed

          Insane thing to say if we’re talking about Waid.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            I got off on a tangent about the general state of writers back then. Didn't really have him in mind with that particular criticism.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          >All those highly regarded mini series DC did back then like Long Halloween, Kingdom Come, Birthright feel like movie pitches or at least outlines for non comic material. It's not just writing for adaptations though.
          The movie pitches came in the 00s. The Long Halloween was Loeb doing an expanded version of the Halloween specials he had already been doing (plus he had already been a Hollywood screenwriter), Kingdom Come was Ross taking a failed Alan Moore pitch and filing off the edges to make a "silver age rules, Image bros drool" comic, Birthright was Waid's Not Muh response to Byrne's Man of Steel he got as a consolation prize after the very bitter fall-out from the Waid/Peyer/Morrison/Millar Superman 2000 proposal.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          >gen xers being the first generation of writers who made comics with adaptations in mind

          Comics in the 90s were absolutely NOT made with adaptations in mind.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            Generally true, but Image comics were definitely conceived to be a big multimedia enterprise. Within just a few years of its founding you already had cartoons for WildCATs, The Maxx, Savage Dragon, and Spawn. Spawn also had that underperforming live action movie and multiple video games.

            • 1 month ago
              Anonymous

              The comics themselves were meant to sell on their own merits. That's completely different from how things are done now.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        >how Starman by James Robinson has been all but forgotten.
        This is a travesty. That shit was great. I still go through my Starman Omnibus' every once in a while. That was such a good damn book.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          It's because dc won't keep it in print

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      His Daredevil sold badly though.

  14. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Waid's biggest weakest is that he's horrible at creating villains.

  15. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Stan Lee did not spend 30 years failing to break into Hollywood for people to start saying comics became adaptation fodder in the 90s

  16. 1 month ago
    Anonymous
    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Based Spergeon hitting all the nails on the head.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        Interesting.
        I remember some other journalist having similar sperg outs about Planetary.

        Dude who wrote that even said that he doesn't know what the frick he was thinking at the time.

        And it MUST be stated that the article is from The Comics Journal, who infamously hated EVERY superhero comic just for the sake of being snobs.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Interesting.
      I remember some other journalist having similar sperg outs about Planetary.

  17. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Kingdom Come isn't good either.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      it's not bad for a superhero comic

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        It's bad, even for capeshit.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          How

  18. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Kingdom Come is more of Ross's comic. He wrote an outline and pitched it to James Robinson, who was supposed to be the writer at first.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      That might have been better.

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      >Kingdom Come is more of Ross's comic.

      Anon, Kingdom Come is a Moore comic. Read his "Twilight of the Superheroes" pitch.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        Twilight of the Superheroes and Kingdom Come have virtually nothing in common.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          From Waid
          >"I read Twilight in 1988, 1989 or so when I was an editor at DC (and loved it). Alex, however, had never read it until we were well into the second or third issue of Kingdom Come, after it was all blocked. It’s possible that some small elements of Moore’s pitch influenced some of my own ideas–that’s what good writing is supposed to do–but I think we ultimately took the DCU in a more hopeful direction…?"
          They're both stories about a superhero civil war in a less-than-ideal future. The actual details are very different.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            Honestly, and especially now since Moore's pitch is floating around online, saying Kingdom Come ripped it off is like saying it ripped of DKR by having an old Batman

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          >Twilight of the Superheroes and Kingdom Come have virtually nothing in common.

          They have a lot in common lol. What actually convinced me it's a rip-off is that Waid/Ross's description about Beast Boy is borderline identical to Moore's.

          His DD was the lowest selling DD run ever up to that point. In spite of its online cult following, it really was not a good run.

          Doing lighthearted Daredevil probably turned off fans, but he also got unlucky his run was right before the Netflix show boosted the character.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            Can you give some examples. It’s been awhile since I read either but all I can remember is “Superman vs Captain Marvel hero war” and “Superman and Wonder Woman as a couple”

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            They have literally nothing in common.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        They have nothing in common.

        From Waid
        >"I read Twilight in 1988, 1989 or so when I was an editor at DC (and loved it). Alex, however, had never read it until we were well into the second or third issue of Kingdom Come, after it was all blocked. It’s possible that some small elements of Moore’s pitch influenced some of my own ideas–that’s what good writing is supposed to do–but I think we ultimately took the DCU in a more hopeful direction…?"
        They're both stories about a superhero civil war in a less-than-ideal future. The actual details are very different.

        Waid even refutes you in that quote.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          >Waid even refutes you in that quote.
          No he doesn't, stop it.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        Kingdom Come is morals and values re-entering comics. It was a declaration of the dark age of comics being over.

        Twilight of the Superheroes was fricking Injustice. Evil fascist Superman ruling the world. Yaaaaaaaawn. I like to think Moore's run in Supreme was an apology for even thinking of Twilight.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          >Kingdom Come is morals and values re-entering comics. It was a declaration of the dark age of comics being over.

          This is complete and utter nonsense.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            Mike Carlin brought DC back from the Edge by greenlighting stuff like Kingdom Come, JSA, Morrison's JLA and Peter David's Supergirl and Young Justice. Then Didio flushed it all down the drain when he replaced him.

            >it being sort of a response to all the violent antiheroes of the 80s and 90s

            It's not. At least not entirely. That aspect really only influenced the design on Magog. It really isn't what inspired the premise.

            The entire premise is "all these edgy antiheroes have killed most of the villains and now they're just causing destruction fighting among themselves, so they need to be patrolled by the TRUE heroes." It was definitely an indictment of Liefeld, Larsen, McFarlane, and Lee and that late 80s/early 90s zeitgeist of extreme-looking antiheroes who kill their villains.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          >Twilight of the Superheroes was fricking Injustice.
          Moore's version would have been no less than a billion times better than Taylor's crap.

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          Twilight of the Superheroes had NOTHING to do with Injustice.

  19. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    >kingdom come
    >good

  20. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    >What if Kingdom Come was good
    say no more

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      Whoa.

  21. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    more like Mark Gayd

  22. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    I really like Mark Waid. His Deadpool was good during his jobber days, his Captain America was excellent, even his edgy Archie comics were good. He's autistic about story and thus tells a damn fine one.

    I thought it was weird Cartoonist Kayfabe doesn't like him but they grew up on some shitty comics they're convinced are great.

  23. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    Wrong.

  24. 1 month ago
    Anonymous

    This might be bizarre, but the first time I read Kingdom Come, I was oblivious to it being sort of a response to all the violent antiheroes of the 80s and 90s.
    I still enjoyed it, though

    • 1 month ago
      Anonymous

      >it being sort of a response to all the violent antiheroes of the 80s and 90s

      It's not. At least not entirely. That aspect really only influenced the design on Magog. It really isn't what inspired the premise.

      • 1 month ago
        Anonymous

        This might be bizarre, but the first time I read Kingdom Come, I was oblivious to it being sort of a response to all the violent antiheroes of the 80s and 90s.
        I still enjoyed it, though

        It was a stand against all the violent anti-heroes. But more like comic industry evolution in general. Like how it changed from the Silver Age.

        boards.fireden.net/co/thread/102908234/

        • 1 month ago
          Anonymous

          What was that page supposed to prove?

          If you don't like his Daredevil you probably don't like Daredevil as a whole.

          Ikari wasn't even the main focus of the arc you dumbass

          His Daredevil was trash and Waid doesn't understand the character.

          Mike Carlin brought DC back from the Edge by greenlighting stuff like Kingdom Come, JSA, Morrison's JLA and Peter David's Supergirl and Young Justice. Then Didio flushed it all down the drain when he replaced him.
          [...]
          The entire premise is "all these edgy antiheroes have killed most of the villains and now they're just causing destruction fighting among themselves, so they need to be patrolled by the TRUE heroes." It was definitely an indictment of Liefeld, Larsen, McFarlane, and Lee and that late 80s/early 90s zeitgeist of extreme-looking antiheroes who kill their villains.

          You seem to be making a lot of assumptions about the intentions behind the comic that don't match up the actual history of its production.

          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            Go dig up that old issue of Wizard summarized here where Ross says "Yeah Magog is Cable and I hate those extreme 90s comics" https://screenrant.com/major-dc-villain-parodied-controversial-90s-marvel-artist/

            • 1 month ago
              Anonymous

              All he said was he didn't like 90s comics. That doesn't support anything you said.

            • 1 month ago
              Anonymous

              All he said was he didn't like 90s comics. That doesn't support anything you said.

              The question is if he says that he hates 90s comics because they are too different to his childhood comics. Or if he dislike that it is the 90s extreme notion. I mean the early Cable was ok, but the 90s Cable became this Rambo parody,

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                >if he says that he hates 90s comics because they are too different to his childhood comics

                OF COURSE that's the reason.

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous

                You think that this is the reason, he said that this is the reason or you can interpret it from something he said?

            • 1 month ago
              Anonymous

              This interview might be important too.
              https://aiptcomics.com/2020/12/02/alex-ross-warner-royalties-screwed-superman-crisis/
              >“The thing is they were borrowing my Superman costume but it was only to get him [Brandon Routh] in as his version of Superman. And then the truth of the matter was they must not have been able or willing to do a deal based upon the production he was part of with Bryan Singer — presumably, they didn’t want to have to pay out to them, so instead I got screwed. They didn’t pay me or Mark anything.”

            • 1 month ago
              Anonymous

              It seems he doesnt hate it, but disliked the Rob Liefeld version of tacticool characters.
              And Liefeld was ok with it!
              >Fortunately, the Image co-founder took it in stride, with Ross further explaining to Wizard " Funnily enough, Rob recognized it and loved the idea that he was in Kingdom Come as a metaphor. "

              • 1 month ago
                Anonymous
          • 1 month ago
            Anonymous

            That it is more than just hate for the bronze age.

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