>Marvel flops twice in one year after dominating for 13 years
>Immediately loses all its prestige and becomes Hollywood’s punching bag
Favreau knew this.
>Marvel flops twice in one year after dominating for 13 years
>Marvel flops twice in one year after dominating for 13 years
>Immediately loses all its prestige and becomes Hollywood’s punching bag
Favreau knew this.
More like how the demographic grew up and realized how garbage these movies were.
>the demographic grew up
Naive, innocent anon...
I'm 25 and grew up
See the issue here is that even if your opinion of the older movies change, there's no denying that the movies/shows NOW are shitty
That's what it is, Feige needs to stop making movies like Thor 4 that make Saturday morning cartoons look smart by comparison, simple as
>grew up
if only
just a few years ago Thanos replaced Darth Vader as the most iconic movie villain of the history of cinema. People don't change tastes THAT fast
Not really. The movies predictably went to shit once all the actual good comics were adapted to film. Disney bought a used up prostitute and is wondering why she won't get pregnant.
They adapted good AND bad comics around the time they were popular. The difference is they had people on there who made the bad comics less bad. Let's not try to pretend Millar's civil war is better than MCU Civil War.
Hell, No Way Home which was popular, was taking influence from One More Day.
Phase 1 and 2 hold up pretty well. It's post-Endgame where the series becomes garbage
Phase 2 is mostly trash and you know it
Oh piss off. There where wholes starting to show even by Ultron.
I lost interest in MCU when I was 15
Congrats on turning 16
Look Endgame is where the story ended. It was fine, now we're wheel spinning
>More like how the demographic grew up
I turn 26 tomorrow and I never really liked this gay shit to begin with.
We know, you never really liked it, you loved it to begin with
What amazes me is that it took normies 13 years to realize how bad it was to be eating shit after shit for so long.
I watched first avengers and nothing else
Of the last 6 Marvel films, 4 of them were big hits.
which 4? I've seen none of them
I take that back, I did see that Dr. Strange. So I know ONE of those 6 were a hit.
The thing is, the way this works is that those movies could not flop until the MCU had ALREADY lost its prestige. They are the symptom, not the cause.
If people still had faith in MCU storytelling and movie quality, people would go out and watch the Marvels anyway because they would still be primed to give it the benefit of the doubt. But multiple lame movies (and some truly awful Disney+ shows) in rapid succession means that people no longer feel like these are movies that they 'have' to watch in theaters. Especially when they go from theater to Disney+ in like 3-4 months.
Poor planning killed the MCU, but the existence of Disney+ was the knife.
This anon gets it. The MCU has lost all urgency with a combination of mediocre to outright poor content and being available at home shortly after theatrical release
You mostly got it, though I'll add to the list
>The reaction toward Captain Marvel
>COVID
>Chadwick Boseman dying
Captain Marvel might've been the turning point as the PR surrounding it got so bad it inadvertently encouraged people to try to tear it down aggressively. It was also coming off of other bad PR debacles like Ghostbusters 2016 and Last Jedi and then led to the Rotten Tomatoes change. The film made a billion at the box office, but it might've been the first blow toward the MCU, PR-wise. And it didn't help that this mentality (both from MCU camp and Anti-MCU camp) carried over to Phase 4.
But I think COVID and the theater closures and production stalls accelerated the fall of the MCU. If it hadn't happened, I think there would've been a slower decline during the early part of Phase 4 and enough time for Feige to try to fix things early on. As it stood there were too many films AND Disney+ projects to cover, that got their productions stalled by COVID, and all the emphasis was on Disney+ because they weren't sure if theaters would open again.
Chadwick Boseman dying meant a loss of a key character they wanted to push moving forward, it's also possible that Black Panther 2 might've done better if he was still around.
Honorable mention goes to the excessive reaction MCU fans and shills had toward Martin Scorsese's mild criticisms about Marvel films. I think that might've also hurt the MCU in the eyes of some normies because even if they didn't care for Scorsese's films, they may have started seeing the MCU as a cult and get turned off by them.
The MCU Cult that was going berserk at any established filmmaker throwing shade at capeshit was fricking bizarre. I mean for the most part they were fine action blockbusters, but you'd think from the way those psychos were going on about them that they're high art as opposed to just being the modern equivalent of Jerry Bruckheimer movies.
How is that different from the Scorsese Cult going berserk at any capeshit filmmaker throwing shade at Marty? It's two shades of the same internet autism that berely registers to the average audience.
Because more people will notice the MCU crowd than the Scorsese crowd
I'd also say they fell into the trap of doing too many convoluted storylines where you had to watch TV show A to see a plotline get introduced, movie B to see what happened next, TV show C to get more development, then finally unrelated movie D to figure out the rest leading into the movie you actually wanted to see coming out and not making any sense unless you watched all the previous shit.
Stuff like that turns off even hardcore comics fans and is only done as a way to try to sell more comics then they want to actually read. It was one thing when you got a new summer blockbuster maybe once every 1-2 years and the overarching plot was just a little Easter egg in the background you could miss and not lose out on to much, but when they're releasing multiple projects a year and making the story in each more involved you just start alienating your audience because its too much work for them to keep up (especially when they have to pay to watch everything)
Combine that with the fact that they didn't start getting bad about this until after all the popular characters were written out and you can see why they're declining. All of their Frontline players are characters who were 2nd-3rd string characters that you could easily forget were in the franchise & now they're supposed to be the heavy hitters. Don't let the woke message fool you they only do it because they figure characters like Thor, Iron Man, Hulk, & Captain America will stay popular and bring in the numbers elsewhere so this is just a ploy to drive up the popularity of their unpopular characters thinking that it will end up making them more money because they think they can turn their D listers into A listers doing Spider-Man numbers.
Unironically the only thing that could save then now would be to roll out Wolverine, put a focus on Spider-Man and make them the big two like Cap and Tony were.
Sensible Cinemaphile take, compared to the Cinemaphile tards ITT.
>Unironically the only thing that could save then now would be to roll out Wolverine,
Soon.
>put a focus on Spider-Man
Never happening unless Disney pries him or Miles from Sony's moneyclenched hands.
>and make them the big two like Cap and Tony were.
More like make Wolverine and Cyclops the big two.
Disney will never be able to pull of Cyclops without neutering him, especially if they're under the impression they need to "roll back" or "make up for" his less favourable portrayals in recent years (like thry did when they brought teen Cyclops to the future)
Pretty much this, Disney will never be able to pull out a current Cyclops specially on this day and age
>I'd also say they fell into the trap of doing too many convoluted storylines where you had to watch TV show A to see a plotline get introduced, movie B to see what happened next, TV show C to get more development, then finally unrelated movie D to figure out the rest leading into the movie you actually wanted to see coming out and not making any sense unless you watched all the previous shit.
This is a good point, I forgot to add that.
Don't forget that, a lot of people really didn't want to pay for multiple streaming services. I still haven't bothered with Disney+.
>Combine that with the fact that they didn't start getting bad about this until after all the popular characters were written out and you can see why they're declining. All of their Frontline players are characters who were 2nd-3rd string characters that you could easily forget were in the franchise & now they're supposed to be the heavy hitters. Don't let the woke message fool you they only do it because they figure characters like Thor, Iron Man, Hulk, & Captain America will stay popular and bring in the numbers elsewhere so this is just a ploy to drive up the popularity of their unpopular characters thinking that it will end up making them more money because they think they can turn their D listers into A listers doing Spider-Man numbers.
I could see why they would do it. Before the MCU started you'd have maybe some casuals aware of Cap, Iron Man, Hulk, maybe Thor, through the games and cartoons and comics. But it wasn't a guarantee that they'd sell. Once they were a smash hit, and then once GOTG, a franchise and characters that was previously confined to just comics (remember when people were wondering why Rocket was in Marvel vs Capcom 3?), became a smash hit then they got confident that they could make any Marvel character a hit.
But I think they made the same mistake as Marvel Comics and replaced everyone too fast, and also there seemed like a talent drain.
Big problem is that they tried to build around characters they thought would be really popular which crippled them when audiences responded to different characters. Post-Endgame MCU should have had Ant-Man and Scarlet Witch as its tentpoles, instead they demolished Wanda and stripped Scott of everything people liked about him and his films.
So just like Westerns? Just like Slasher films? Just like the 90's action craze? Shit like this happens all the time.
Disney now has to go chasing the next big fad now that their cash cow has been completely milked.
yeah but what would that fad be? disney-made anime adaptations?
Kingdom Hearts?
Christ Star Wars: Visions was bad enough, all the homosexuals suddenly okay with everything just because the Mouse contracted out some Japanese
For better or for worse, the japanese and the french are the only two animation industries that still have their head in the game. And the japanese animation industry both is more widely known to american audiences and works for cheaper. So you give them half of what it costs to get an american company to make a show, and thats still double what they usually have to work with so they get to go all-out and you end up with an Edgerunners or SPTA.
The future of cartoons is just western companies paying japanese studios and directors to do it for them. Not as outsourcing the gruntwork, but helming the ship and making the major creative decisions.
>still have their head in the game
>tv shows
oh come on
Video game movies/adaptations probably.
Let's be real, if the cinematic complex vidya can't be correctly adapted, then that trend will die before it even begins. Sure, Mario and Freddy's made bank, but they are giant IPs regardless of any adaptations. It would be no different than the old star wars vidya, it would have just sold no matter what.
Live action adaptions of either video games or anime. Those are the two largely untapped markets with decades of material to pick and choose from.
Anime movie rights are probably cheaper to acquire than video game rights, easier to adapt because its already in a story structure that lends itself to being told on screen, and they can assume that their default audience will be less familiar with the source material than a western video game so they can change the details with less backlash.
Both mediums have had a pretty shitty history of live action adaptations, but Anime had One Piece (which was, apparently, actually good?) and video games had The Last of Us. So right now it came probably go either way, its mostly a question of which one they manage to make work for them first.
Nintendo already has their partnership with Universal which has been very fruitful for the both of them due to Mario making a billion worldwide. They also have a live action Zelda movie in the works. Looks like they’ll have the more serious IPs like Metroid and Fire Emblem adapted to live action, with the more cartoony ones like Kirby and Splatoon adapted to animation.
>Fire Emblem
They're going to adapt one of them into something like Game of Thrones, aren't they
I'm inclined to think it'll be video games, simply due to the Mario and Sonic movies making bank. One Piece is, from a studio viewpoint, just another piece of content for streamers. It was popular, but not Squid Game / Stranger Things popular.
Plus, the video game industry has a deep, long-running inferiority streak when it comes to comparing itself to cinema. Plenty of devs would jump at the chance to touch Hollywood glory, because they see film as superior to their own medium. I think a fair number of properties would be as cheap as anime/manga ones, simply because of that craving for respectability. Or because the vidya people would be dumb/eager enough to fall for Hollywood accounting tricks.
Grassroots no-budget old fashioned movies, gratuitous breasts preferred
Well it's a little bit different, cinema itself is dying. Marvel had it on life support, it's not just the genre people aren't interested in it's cinema itself
What do you guys hope the next big craze is going to be? I'm hoping its either pirate movies or viking movies.
Marvel has been bleeding since Phase 4 started, OP.
The flops are just the nails in the coffin.
>make god bleed
More like "a god moronicly falling on a bed of nails repeatedly because he felt he was invincible and could get away with doing dumb suicidal shit"
MCU's wounds are all self-inflicted. Look no further than trash like She-Hulk.
>Look no further than trash like She-Hulk.
Daredevil doing the walk of shame. He's holding his boots, much like a woman would hold her heels. That's the joke. Daredevil just fricked she hulk, rather then. Rather then putting in a good light of just having sex, or them post sex scene in bed they chose to focus on an awkward scene of a super hero walk of shame
Would they still do that scene with female black panther or Ms. Marvel?
Personally I think a joke like Futurama Snu Snu would be funnier. Like a play on something the boys would do but not as dark.
shouldve been them about to have sex then smash cut to an ambulance.
That'd be funny.
Also what if as a little easter egg, you just start seeing dudes in wheelchairs.
>twice
Um ... more. Flops and bombs are different.
Ant-Man was a flop, The Marvels was a bomb. Everything else, as far as money goes, did well, even if legs were weaker.
Given how ridiculously expensive these productions are, the ones that were “successes” just did okay. Thing is, that’s still pretty bad with how Disney has been hurt financially from all the other shit they’ve been doing. Meaning just doing okay isn’t going to cut it.
They can always just do another round of layoffs
I saw a clip of the first avengers. Feels so long ago. Tony not trusting Fury. Steve mad at Tony for provoking Banner, also mot having any of his shit.
Watching phase 1 MCU and current nu-MCU is like night and day. It doesn’t even feel like the same franchise anymore. They got too wienery and just completely stopped caring about the writing and CG.
Really makes me think of this qoute.
To have something so good, and just run it straight into the ground. To really not understand why, the thing you have is successful.
I don't entirely disagree, but at least the MCU managed to be successful for 10 straight years and closed out its major story arc. Everyone knew that there would be some amount of dropoff after Endgame unless they managed to catch lightning in a bottle twice, and they didn't repeat the miracle. Disappointing, sure, but not a huge shock nor does it lessen the previous acheivement.
Star Wars, on the other hand, is your quote to a T. The absolute speed and certainty with which they took a multi billion dollar franchise, a pop culture icon of decades, and rendered it almost completely unusable is frankly kind of amazing. Most people have to actively try to frick things up that badly.
And George broke the first window with the Special Ed version.
special eds are better than the originals, stop lying to yourself.
I know you're a GenXer and this is your burning of the library of Alexandria, but its ok, one day you'll find something actually worth caring about; but you're running out of time.
The THX remasters were better than the originals. The special eds made unnecessary changes, the most egregious of all of them being Han shooting second.
I stand by it that the early ones, Iron Man (2008), Captain America the First Avenger, Thor (2012), the first Avengers, all great. What the hell happened
They started writing the scripts around the quips
will we ever have a second wind?
Yes
And when Favraeu sold out to do the Lion King movie it made a billion. Dude just keeps winning.
It never had much going for it after Infinity War, they didn't even conclude that plotline well since Endgame was a pile of shit. I don't think anyone but absolute hardcore fans gave a frick about the MCU after that.
Just two more weeks until disney files for bankruptcy!
The fact you have to cope with a Trumptard meme is not very inspiring
>Favreau knew this.
thats some weird vince posting
>doesn't come back to do iron man 3
>does his own movie with him in the starring role and he grabbed rdj and scarlett johansson
>a movie about a chef that leaves a big restaurant with no creative freedom to run his own smaller food truck
>Muh disney is done for
All it takes is another spiderverse or guardians of the galaxy tier product for the same gays cheering today to slurp the slop back up
Nothing ever happens. We will live and die under the same corporations.
Iron Man 2 could have been a contender.
>mainstream media is turning against Marvel
Which means that pretty soon we're gonna get contrarians here talking about how kino phase four was. I can't wait.
Iron-Man 2 is underappreciated and a way stronger film than most MCU movies.
I’m a diehard fan of the MCU and actually enjoyed Ant-Man 3, She-Hulk, and the Marvels. Ask me anything
how big is your funko pop collection
I actually don’t collect many funko pops, but I do own an anime dakimakura that I sleep with every night
I see. how big is your secret funko pop collection
Huge
I think it's because at the height of their success Disney turned into a giant c**t and threatened to ban any critic or journalist who criticized them from all Disney/Pixar/Marvel/Star Wars events forever which would severely limit their careers so literally everyone was just waiting for a potential misstep to tear them to shreds.
The MCU was never good. Iron Man was carried by RDJ and Jeff Bridges doing mad ad-libs because there was no script, the half of Incredible Hulk that Norton got to make his way is decent and First Avenger is the only genuinely good movie in phase 1 because Johnston is based and a real director. Thor and The Avengers are some of the worst high budget movies ever made by Hollywood. Iron Man 2 might've been good if it hadn't been shat on, but it was still a Marvel production so the chances it would've been good were slim anyway. And it just got worse from there. Aiming to be dumb trash for mental children is not an excuse, plenty of movies have done that while also having good filmmaking.
There are no more interesting stories to adapt, simple as that
>Captain America, Hulk, Iron Man, etc were done after Endgame
>Spiderman already blew it's load with NWH
>X-Men peaked in the 2000s and had a decend send off with Logan
>Thor got more pathetic with each movie, same with Antman
>GotG finished at the trilogy
>Black Panther is fricking dead
And the rest of the heroes that people wanted to see like Daredevil are reduced to cameos or still suffering from their previous reputation as jokes like Ghost Rider or the Fantastic 4
Stories for years, famalam. They'll never run out apart from FOTM current year stories.
If they want to stick to their beloved MCU? No they wont, like i said at least half of the main MCU heroes are out and the other half aren't remotely interesting
The closest I can think is doing something with Dr Strange since he still has Dormammu and Shuma Gorath as main antagonists, otherwise they're better just rebooting everything again
Am I the only one who always hated marvel films? Not just the mcu but marvel movies in general. There were a few exceptions like the original Spider-Man trilogy and Wesley snipes blade. But everything else has been fricking trash. I’m not a dc fan either. I only really liked the nolan Batman trilogy.
Naw, you could be a contrarian with no thoughts of your own. The actors make the movies, not the fricking IPs. RDJ, and Chris Evans carry their movies and the universe in general. There were plenty of good movies but the fact they are ALL treated like gold is even more embarrassing than just wanting to unwind and watch a trashy popcorn action flick. Batman was always liked by regular people, and hated by fricking comic nerds. Even Superman is loved by regular people who don't even like comics. The problem were being cringe fanboys. Manchildren who were picked on for reading comics and growing up to be bitter and resentful tards.
Why did no one tell them Guardians worked because GOTG is one of the best if not the best MCU movie? You’d think if they were going to try and make the bottom tier characters popular they’d follow a similar formula of letting a known director like Gunn just do what they want. If they fail oh well there are 200 other nobodies they can try and if they succeed you got another smash hit franchise to milk. Disneys worst enemy is itself because they’ll never let an outsider have more control then them. Still money talks so maybe they’ll try and be more lenient again.
Cause they still want control over it
Hell from the way Iger was sounding lately he made it sound like Feige let the creatives go out of control in Phase 4 and 5
I fricking HATE amerifat muttslop
The fact people genuinely think the MCU is some """"marvel"""" of movie making and art is laughable. Everyone is laughing at you behind your backs. You were never cool, and you were extra cringe to even defend Disney of all companies for over a decade for killing the summer blockbuster event with interconnected movies and IPs. You even go to bat and played Team Red/Blue with other comic companies and their IPs not making a billion fricking dollar for slop. Also for fricking movie stars and directors? The most privileged and fake people on the planet.
have a nice day.
Amerifats are not "people"
True, most Amerifats are cattle that are milked of their money for entertainment and overpriced gadgets while they die over underpaid and overworked conditions with no affordable health care so they can just die when they dry out from a bottomless debt they leave behind for their progeny. To the people who know, knows what is coming to the wealthy.
I was done with the whole MCU deal after Endgame. Honestly, I was really done with it after Infinity War. Endgame was the point of becoming done with Marvel, because it took the compelling, engaging, charismatic villain Infinity War built the movie around, and killed him in the first act.
The other guy is just a clone for all intents and purposes, he didn't go through the same experiences so he doesn't have the same emotional arc to complete. That arc was over in the first goddamn act, and as much of a gut punch moment they meant it to be, it was a mistake. They never got back to where the energy was right up to that moment, not even when Chris Evans said The Line and everyone in the theatre clapped and came and shat their pants. Not even when Robert Downey Jr. pulled his fricking parachute and jumped out of the franchise.
It's been a corpse since the first act of Endgame, they just keep beating it.
Endgame literally was the endgame. you unironically literally can't make this shit up. marvel movies were so iconic yall. now they are nothing but joke
>yall
Superhero movies have consistently bombed since 2020. 2019 was the last year that they were overall profitable. How behind the times is Cinemaphile (and seemingly the rest of the internet) that you only noticed this now?
The MCU being a cinematic universe was it's greatest power because if there was ever a shit movie like thor 2 and iron man 3, you could blow it off as just "a bad episode of a good season" but now we have entire phases/season being terrible. It made the same big mistake as star wars and became so over saturated that the movies are no longer an event
>The MCU being a cinematic universe was it's greatest power because if there was ever a shit movie like thor 2 and iron man 3, you could blow it off as just "a bad episode of a good season"
This is correct, and it's painful. Its like the Star Trek movies and people will overlook the bad ones so long the next one may be good.
>now we have entire phases/season being terrible.
Phase 2 still had Shang-Chi, Spider-Man and Black Panther 2 which were all unanimously well-received, and Phase 5 has GotG 3 and Loki so far.
>shang-chi
>well received
was it? i remember being royally ignored by anyone who wasn't a race baiter grifter
It wasn't just those 2 movies. They were what flopped at the box office, but it was a consequence of Dr. Strange 2 being middling and Thor Love and Thunder being crap, along with the garbage Disney+ shows that led to the downfall this year.
Not just that but also Eternals.
Disney has Xmen now. That is their """"Break Glass in Case Ship Sinking"""" so they better do something. With so many people more conscious of Logan being a short king, they are going to be critical about the height who plays Wolverine now.
It won't include Wolverine nor Prof X that's for sure, people still associate em with Jackman and Steward, their most recognizable actors, and with how insistant they are with brand recognition, unless they nail a better casting for their most iconic characters or drag their rinkled asses to the set, then you bet people won't like it
Yeah, but the multiverse is now a thing. So new actors will play the Xmen. This is literally how they will get people on board. Only old people like myself give a damn about Jackman and Steward. Youngsters don't give a frick about about those two guys anymore. They are also to old to reprise the roles beyond handing it down to new actors.
Even Larson is tired of being in Marvel movies, and most likely with be in a multiverse plot that will cause the new universe of Xmen to start. Theories and ideas floating around, there are ways but not with Disney Exec think tanks.
The problem right now is they can't work on an all-new X-Men cast till 2025, because the Fox performers and producers all have contracts that don't expire till that time
https://theilluminerdi.com/2022/07/26/marvel-x-men-delay-until-2025/
>The problem right now is they can't work on an all-new X-Men cast till 2025, because the Fox performers and producers all have contracts that don't expire till that time
is marvels out on d+ yet