We’ve got to talk about Tolkien’s map of Middle-earth. Middle-earth’s got 99 problems, and mountains are basically 98 of them.
There’s some weird stuff going on with these mountain ranges. To illustrate, I’ve added some lines to the map so you can more clearly see what I see whenever I look at it.
The main creator of mountains are tectonic plate collisions. You either end up with the heavier oceanic plate grinding under the continental crust—which is lighter because it’s got a lot more silicates in it—and wrinkling it up that way, as seen all around the Pacific Rim; or you have two plates of roughly equal density colliding and, since one isn’t going to sink under the other, building up and up like a cartoonish car pileup, which is why the Himalayas keep getting a little bit taller every year.I can buy the placement of the Misty Mountains, as a continent-continent collision, perhaps, even if there should be a lot more shenanigans going on then, in terms of elevation. But when you throw in the near perpendicular north and south mountain ranges? Why are there corners? Mountains don’t do corners. And Mordor? Oh, I don’t even want to talk about Mordor.
Tectonic plates don’t tend to collide at neat right angles, let alone in some configuration as to create a nearly perfect box of mountains in the middle of a continent. I’ve heard the reasoning before that suggests Sauron has made those mountains somehow, and I suppose right angles are a metaphor for the evil march of progress, but I don’t recall that being in the books I read.
TWO HOBBIT SHIRE BOYS GO ROUND THE OUTSIDE ROUND THE OUTSIDE ROUND THE OUTSIDE
kek this looks absolutely moronic.
this show is gonna implode.
is he gonna have a rap battle with the orcs?
Yes. And the orcs will be the orcs from Bright. I'm thinking kino
no, hes going to go into an orc house of worship and shoot them with a semi automatic crossbow
A rap scene done like a Tolkien song would trend extremely well with younger audiences who never watched the Jackson trilogy. It would get the show on their radar for sure
>I'VE CREATED A MONSTER
>CUZ NOBODY WANTS TO SEE MELKOR NO MORE THEY WANT SAURON I'M CHOPPED LIVER
>WELL IF YOU WANT SAURON THIS IS WHAT I'LL GIVE YA
>A LITTLE BIT OF RINGS MIXED WITH SOME SILMARIL
What was their fricking problem?
>Amazon realised they fricked up having too much Black folk, so they throw Amerifats a bone and have an inbred white character to represent da South
BASED BASED BASED BASED
GREEN SHIRTED WHITE BOI ROLLIN AROUN
HE ROLLIN DOWN DA STREET DISSIN EVERY MAFACKIN HOE HE MEET
That's an awfully hot mountain top
I'd frick him.
Sauron is a chav?
It's fantasy you stupid Black person.
>Its just fantasy!!
So you wouldn't mind if there were Toyotas in Middle Earth since nothing needs to make sense, right?
Fantasy doesn't mean that nothing makes sense, just that it follows its own set of established rules within the world itself, independent of the rules in the real world, the geography of Middle Earth makes sense based on its own rules, Toyotas running around the countryside doesn't.
There are canonically steam enginges in Middle Earth, so why not?
There's always an autist who thinks fantasy is a dichotomy. There are levels of suspension of disbelief.
>There are levels of suspension of disbelief.
No, there are in-universe justifications for fantasy content, and then there's just shit thrown in to satisfy modern racial politics. Dragons are justified in-universe by the lore created by Tolkien. Black elves and dwarves are not.
There's no mention of dwarves skin color though
Ah yes, because Tolkien, a man who lived in early 20th century England, definitely would not have noted it if he had intended his dwarves to be Black folk. Sure.
That's' you infering things. Not canon
I'm not inferring anything. It's a white European tale for white Europeans. Anything outside of that default would have been clarified, as it was with the men of Near Harad. You're delusional.
Okay, now you just have to post a letter or something where Tolkien states this. Otherwise, this is just your opinion. You need to differance how things is and how you think things ought to be
No, I really don't. Confucius never needed to denote the ethnicity of his fictional disciples for me to know that they're Chinese. Cervantes never needed to specifically point out "Don Quixote was a white Spaniard who lived in white Spain" for me to know that that's the case. Just because you grew up in a homogenized globohomosexual oligarchy where everyone's some flavor of mystery meat doesn't mean everyone did. It's fairly safe to assume that, given the context of the period Tolkien wrote in, and the fact that the one example of "foreign" people in his novels was heavily denoted as such, that everyone else looked pretty similar to white Europeans, more specifically the cultural staples they were inspired by. Elves are white, luminous fairytale beings. Dwarves are white Scandinavians. Hobbits are white Englishmen. The men of Rohan and Gondor are French and Germanic, respectively. The Haradrim are North Africans. Simple as.
Dwarves do not have human ethnicities, you dumb troony
>The men of Rohan and Gondor are French and Germanic, respectively.
No, Gondor are not based on the French. That's moronic.
>you dumb troony
This is what you've resorted to? You've realized your moronic non-insults don't work, so you're projecting your own sickness onto your opponents? Do you really hate yourself that much, troony?
>Gondor are not based on the French
Do you know what the word "respectively" means, homosexual? Rohan is a real place in France. Much of its culture is a hodge-podge of French, Ostrogoth, and Saxon cues. But location-wise it certainly corresponds most strongly with France.
The rohirrim are loosely based on Anglo Saxons. And Gondor is not based on French nor Germanics. Even in your own head canon, you frick up, so how can we trust you to make authoritative statements regarding the lore?
The naming schemes are very scientifically thoughtout. Each race had its own set of sounds or limmata.
But sorry to break it to you, Tolkien was a philohellen. Rohan horseriders are Thessalian ephippoi. Gondor is 100% Athens, and of course Mordor is Turkey.
Obviously not everything corresponds exactly to its inspiration. For example Finnish, yes are homosexual, but are not hyperborean immortal perfect beings
is this your first day on the Amazon shill squad (tm)?
Fake quote. You literally confused LotR with The Witcher when you invented it (hence the medieval Poland references lmao).
Are these bot comments, or is the coordination just that obvious?
Do better next time.
>Chuds believe Middle Earth is based on medieval Poland
ngmi
>It's a white European tale for white European
Tolkien never said this. This is your headcanon again.
So why don't they have blue skin?
Someone could make an adaptation where the dwarves have blue skins, yes. It would not go against canon. In the cartoon Hobbit from the 70's the elves have greenish skin
Why don't they have four arms and tails and two anuses?
This isn't about your fetish
Answer the question chud?
It is though, Amazon's fetish is Black folk
OP would be too jealous
Some European folklore have dwarves nd other magical beings be tailed so why not? If you wanna make an adaptation, go for it
But anyone who doesn't give them two anuses and four arms is racist against people with two anuses and four arms, right?
I guess it would be bad if an actor would not get to play a dwarf because he had two anuses, yes
So why do you work for a racist company like Amazon?
I am racist
I won't be watching ROP then, since it's biggest defenders are racists.
There are many people with dualhole who don't get work as it is
How do you know they evrn have one anus?
They need to explicitly state the number of anuses they have, because Tolkien never said they weren't covered in anuses it means they were. Try to keep up with the logic here.
So why make them Black folk and not say green or something?
I guess it's easier to just use the actors natural skin color or something
>Dragons are justified in-universe by the lore created by Tolkien.
no, they are justified by the legends of yore, legends in whose tradition tolkien wrote.
>he thinks middle-earth has tectonic plates
ngmi
>Thus began the first battle of the Valar with Melkor for the dominion of Arda; and of those tumults the Elves know but little. For what has here been declared is come from the Valar themselves, with whom the Eldalië spoke in the land of Valinor, and by whom they were instructed; but little would the Valar ever tell of the wars before the coming of the Elves. Yet it is told among the Eldar that the Valar endeavoured ever, in despite of Melkor, to rule the Earth and to prepare it for the coming of the Firstborn; and they built lands and Melkor destroyed them; valleys they delved and Melkor raised them up; mountains they carved and Melkor threw them down; seas they hollowed and Melkor spilled them; and naught might have peace or come to lasting growth, for as surely as the Valar began a labour so would Melkor undo it or corrupt it. And yet their labour was not all in vain; and though nowhere and in no work was their will and purpose wholly fulfilled, and all things were in hue and shape other than the Valar had at first intended, slowly nonetheless the Earth was fashioned and made firm. And thus was the habitation of the Children of Ilúvatar established at the last in the Deeps of Time and amidst the innumerable stars.
Arda was Created. Tectonics might still exist, but in the beginning it would've been a tool for creation/destruction, and then a force of nature later.
You completely misunderstand the point of fantasy. The landscape in a fantasy world should by nature be idealistic, whimsical, and sensational. Complex knowledge of geography and mountain formation goes over most people's heads, allowing for a reasonable suspension of disbelief and immersion into the fantasy world. A Toyota Corolla in Lotr, on the other hand, wouldn't achieve that for obvious reasons I shouldn't have to explain.
Some autist with a plant biology major has probably screeched at the plants in Avatar, citing how they can't really glow like that or store memories or whatnot. Like who fricking cares.
Toyotas are idealistic, whimsical, and sensational though. What if it was like a fantasy Toyota that flew around and talked? Would that suspend your disbelief enough?
Cars hit too close to home that they destroy the illusion of a medieval fantasy setting like lotr. If you can't understand that you are severely autistic.
It's the same with Black folk in lotr really
Cars are canon to the film trilogy
Trains are mentioned in The Hobbit, so they are canon too
>taking ye olde fantasy map as fact
based moron
yop left greece
bottom mid new zealand
bottom rigt egypt
middle right top middle moingolia
i think e just took real geographical plces and mashed them togeather ngl
also the mountains are basically the alps
sauron literally raised those mountains
In case you weren't here for yesterdays thread, OP is (not so cleverly) baiting for people to say it's a made up world so he can justify Amazon race-swapping the lore. Kys troony
Trannies deserve the rope
Is he wrong though? I find the laws of geography being violated less realistic than a black hobbit
>laws of geography
Doesn't matter when the land was created by being and not by nature
Okay so same with demographics. Nothing matters or have to make sense
>NOOOO THE DEMOGRAPHICS MUST BE 100% SCIENTIFICALLY ACCURATE!!!!
It doesnt have to make sense to you. Just in the rules given in the fictional world. Rules that say Blacks don't exist in the story outside of nigarad. And that the world was shaped intentionally and not by time and the laws of nature
The demographics and cultures of middle earth affect the cohesion of the story. Whether or not certain mountain ranges could exist on planet earth does not.
do better next time
rent free
mordor's mountains were created by sauron with the power of the ring.
thats why all collapse when he is defeated in return of the ring.
also its important to note that this is a map not created by satelite its a there be dragons map
the neat edges were probably added for ease of reading
to add to this the mountains around mordor may not be BIG boy tectonic plate mountains and given the desolate nature of the area it could be an evaporated sea where currents collided building up sediment that eventually crushed down into a porous type of rock
Yeah, during the middle ages Sterling Castle was thought to be the main fortress you needed to take in order to conquer Scotland because all the maps at the time were really shitty and made it look like Sterling Castle was on an isthmus in a super defensive position that would block you from entering the rest of Scotland when it really wasn't in reality.
Stirling was strategic because it overlooked an important crossing of the Forth.
It wasn't a proper isthmus, but Stirling Bridge was the lowest crossing point on the river, which made it strategically very important for getting into the Highlands & Central/North East Scotland.
Otherwise you'd need to use boats to cross the river further down, or push through the more barren, mountainous terrain to the west.
who cares you dumb moron it's literally startshit v2.0
SHUT UP! Any fantasy world that has dragons in it is allowed to be completely devoid of any logic and you can't question it. THAT IS THE LAW!
Whenever you find yourself questioning why the mountains around Mordor look like they were deliberately placed there or why the hobbits in the new Amazon show have the same demographics as 21st century America, look at the front cover of your copy of The Hobbit and remind yourself: IT'S BECAUSE DRAGONS EXIST ON MIDDLE-EARTH.
It actually makes sense if you think about it, Smaug was the last major dragon in Middle-Earth and after he died everyone became white because there were no more dragons.
For the n-th time, those mountains are artificial. Sauron raised them to defend Mordor from the kingdoms of men.
Yeah, but even the mountains outside of Mordor look ridiculous. How would mountain ranges form a perfect capital I (with serif) shape?
Anon.
Enough.
I'm not OP. Although for that matter not even OP is OP, since the text is lifted from an article written several years ago.
That's enough.
Who gives a frick, it's full of Black folk now
Still infinitely better than George Martin's nonsense maps.
Martin didn't draw any of the maps himself, the publisher got an artist to draw them based on his outlines, that's why there are a lot of conflicting maps for Westeros.
Tolkien wouldn't just draw maps though, pic related is a drawing of Smaug Tolkien himself drew.
Kino and soulful. Film could never compete with this
>the planet that used to literally be flat and was created by magical spirits isn't realistic
Yeah, crazy
1: The planet was created by a god. 2: Look at thousand year old maps. They're not as accurate or detailed as you must think they are.
>The main creator of mountains are tectonic plate collisions
yeah, ok. now go, read Silmarillion, come back and cringe at what you just wrote
>I don’t recall that being in the books I read.
I don't recall any tectonic plates colliding either.
What I do recall is the world being sang into existence.
>the entire planet was lighted by two lamps which when overthrown literally caused seismic events that shaped much of middle earth
>morgoth literally emptied oceans and toppled mountains while they were being created
>morgoth raised the misty mountain range as a defence against the valar particularly orome
I love lotr bait thread and the neckbeards posting
Melkor raised the misty mountains to impede the movement of the Valar and Elves
You homosexuals are ignoring the most obvious explanation, which is that it's an in-universe map drawn by in-universe people who drew it that way not to maximize geographic accuracy, but to clarify routes of travel. This was the primary purpose of maps for most of history, which is why the Romans and medieval cartographers would denote mountains as impassable straight lines. They didn't care how they were actually shaped, all they cared about is whether you could get to Brundisium directly by way of Lugdunum, or whether you had to skirt around north through Galatia, etc. In all likelihood, the mountains of Mordor are shaped much more like actual mountain ranges in "real life", but the fictional mapmaker chose to represent them as straight lines so that a traveler would know that the place can't be approached from the north, south, or west.
>The map makes no sense because it was drawn by in-universe people
>The map makes no sense because Eru created it
>The map makes no sense because Sauron created the mountains!!
Which one is it chuds? You are just making up reasons and pretending those are lore.
Just admit that it makes no sense.
>muh chuds
Nice way of outing yourself Discord troony
Morgoth made these mountains to troll valars like this anon said
anons you replied to are lorelets
doesn't say anything about Mordor. Nice try.
I know you think that coordinating posts through Discord is normal because it's what you do all day, but you're aware that you're replying to all different anons with all different opinions, right? The map makes perfect sense for any or all of those reasons. Although being a lorelet myself, I tend to gravitate towards
merely because Tolkien was an ancient history autist and it makes sense that he'd want to emulate ancient cartographical methods as closely as possible. It's something that too many modern fantasy maps do wrong, and end up looking exactly that: modern and artificial, not authentic at all.
Hi! Geologist here!
Yeah the map is fricking stupid but Eru canonically created it. There's no need to worry about tectonic processes. That said, if you really wanted to try to explain why it looks like that using tectonics, the mountain ranges going east-west could have been formed by regular continental-continental plate collisions, whereas the north-south ranges could be continental arcs formed when oceanic plate subducts underneath continental plates. That said it would have to be an incredibly complex system.
Yeah, I'm a homosexual.
>I'm a homosexual.
You already said that at the start of your post.
do you think you're the first to discover that outside of the actual LOTR story Tolkien's world-building was shit? it works for the story, that's all it had to do.
>tectonic plate collisions
homie this is fantasy
get your hecking le science the frick outta here
There are no plate tectonics in a flat planet cosmology.
There’s at least one Chud, even your made up bullshit isn’t consistent.
a wizard did it
Didn't Melkor raise the mountains of Mordor?
No, he raised the Misty Mountains to hide what he was doing from the valar in the West
Copypasta bait thread
What an butthole dog
He's just like a human!
What the frick is his problem?
this is copy and paste from a reddit blog
Yes welcome to Cinemaphile
ME has no tetonic plates, and (was) flat,
Tolkien acknowledged that the geography likely made no sense. I think it's mentioned in the foreword to the Silmarillion. He just drew what he thought looked good.
It's europe and Anatolia you dumbass, at least a twisted version of it.
But if you need a "realistic" reason, here it is : It is a midieval map, and midieval maps had distorted shapes.
>Arda
>Tectonic plates
homie, half the orography was made when Tulkas suplexed Morgoth from space
And the other half was done at the begining with the Valar sung the creation
This is bait thread, OP is a troony that is going to twist everything while probably dilating at the same time, don´t bother
I know it's bait but...
You are looking at a shattered remnants of a section of Arda, the rest was destroyed or plummeted to the sea. Many of the characteristics of Arda are artificially formed by the Valor or Morgoth, like his fortress.
The places on the map actually mirror Wales/Gloucestershire/Worcestershire etc...basically near & where Tolkien grew up. I worked on a book about it (not my ideas). There are also geological formations/places on the maps based on things which are really there. Off the top of my head the Malvern Hills are one.
I won't bother reading all that shit but have this
I looked up Alekhine and fell into the Wikipedia rabbit hole. But something stood out to me.
How come most of the best chess players in history are israelites? Does this prove they really have high IQ as a whole? Depressing.
It's a game about manipulating your opponent into making the wrong moves, so I don't know why
>only (insert group here) are capable of manipulating their enemies
Genetic mind reading of gentiles
Damn, tolkiencels really have no idea what a good fantasy map looks like do they.
So the horizontal continent just goes on and on forever?
No, since the map isn't drawn from an author's perspective but from a character (maesthers, aka philosophers, geographers, artists, etc). There's a theory that the Land of Always Winter connects to the Grey Waste because the Yi Ti were atatcked from there by similar creatures such as those that attacked Westeros during the Long Night.
You can look at maps from medieval era or the early Greek/Roman maps. That's what GURM used as an inspiration
whoops, posted wrong one
>austrios
>looks exactly like Australia
big fat fraud
Did I imagine there was a “land of sometimes summer” on this at some point?
>Easteros
>Westeros
This was the best this guy could come up with. What a fraud.
>westerlings
>easterlings
This was the best this guy could come up with. What a fraud
lost it at Brysbane
ibben :DDD
I don’t think plate tectonics were understood at the time of Tolkien but I could be wrong. I agree his map has problems but only a handful of autists would ever notice let alone care. Still a better map than most of the fantasy ones that came after it. I don’t like Tolkien’s books but I think his maps are impressive.
Dude uplift can happen far afield of plate collision zones (see the modern and ancestral Rockies, Sevier range etc.). Ranges can also form from extension (basin and range topography).
>The main creator of mountains are tectonic plate collisions
homie, the Middle Earth was literally created by homosexuals singing
So let me get this straight, chuds - the fact that Middle Earth makes no sense from a geological point of view does not matter at all because its a fantasy story which does not follow the logic of the real world, but yet you INSIST that Middle Earth must follow the logic of the real world when it comes to the distribution of skin pigmentation types or else it "ruins the immersion", "makes no sense", and "destroys the realism and world building"?? Interesting, I wonder why that is.
as a black person i think this is cultural appropriation
Fantasy as a genre is implicitly white. Brown people have no part in it.
You're confusing authenticity with accuracy, a medieval fantasy world looking like a modern united states inner city is not authentic in the slightest.
>Middle Earth makes NO sense
Middle Earth was warped by Morgoth. It was originally flat and with rolling hills.
The world was made by singing. There are no tectonic plates in middle earth.
How do you do fellow Cinemaphile anons who have been here a very long time. Are you also looking forward to Amazon's The Lord of the Rings: The Rings of Power? I know I am.
>Tectonic plates don’t tend to collide at neat right angles
says who?
Who thought of this shit?
OP btfo. scientism loses again
>ackshually tectonic plates don’t tend to collide at neat right angles
lmao did your teacher tell you that? haha
crazy
>A fricking boot has the best kitchens in the world
This actually is fricked up, what did God mean by this? Why a fricking boot?
Hacks
morons complaining about the skin color of elves and dwarves are literally just racist virgins on the verge of shooting up their local supermarket. Just be careful when you go shopping and ignore these friendless buttholes
I wouldn’t just shoot ya, I’d really draw it out y’know, stab ya in the dick and scoop your eyeballs out, strangle you as I’m raping your butthole wide open k’now? beat your head until your gangrenous and take your limbs off so you’re just a little slug slithering about in its faeces y’know? all kinds of hell I’ve thought up over these years y’know? yeah that’d be you y’know
Morgoth made them
Read the silmarillion plebs
The map isn't accurate, it's a transcription of a map, from a transcription of a map, from a transcription of a map, from a tall tale, from a guy with bad eyesight estimating how long a mountain range goes on for. Go look up old maps of the Mediterranean; map making used to be a rare and difficult skill and few were good at it. You basically need to be able to autistically dead recon hundreds of miles.
You are ignoring the sinking of Beleriand and Numenor as factors.
You're not as clever as you think you are. Many mountain ranges in the real world are found far from tectonic boundaries. Scotland is covered in them and is geologically rather inert.
>Why are there corners? Mountains don’t do corners.
Someone needs to tell the Himalayas that they aren't allowed corners
>Tectonic plates don’t tend to collide at neat right angles, let alone in some configuration as to create a nearly perfect box of mountains in the middle of a continent
Xianjang, China, or Afghanistan, would beg to differ