>Nooooo, show Joel needs to be weaker!

>Nooooo, show Joel needs to be weaker! We need to make him 5 years older! We can't just have him gun down droves of infected and bandits! We need to make him realistic and relatable, not John Wick!

>Now let's have him kill 20 guys with vests and ARs and come out completely unscathed.
>In fact, when he initially escapes, he kills TWO guards that have guns trained on him, not just one.

What did they mean by this?

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  1. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    And while suffering from a concussion from a rifle butt hitting his head.

  2. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    He's a trained marine from before the outbreak, everyone else is just a larper

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      No, that was Tommy.

  3. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    pls understand it was the final episode and they had to use the time for more important things like a homosexual episode, a lesbian episode and portraying white male christians as rapists

  4. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    The final episode massacre was shot, edited, scored all with the intent to portray Joel as a mass shooter. The slow and muffled sequence had him coldly and calmly executing everyone in his path. They wanted the audience to fear the man in this moment. Juxtaposed with how much less violent he had been compared to the game up until this point, he seems like a psychopath here. That’s what they meant by this.

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      All of this was done because Neil wants people to disagree with Joel. He wants people to think he was wrong. He wants people to understand and agree with all the dumb shit that follows in part 2

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      >he seems like a psychopath here
      Disagree, maybe grow a pair. This was a soldier finally coming out of retirement, a man who spent the last 20 years in a haze of depression and shock, barely able to defend himself to survive, finally waking up and remembering what he is. A fricking badass. The second someone decides to stand between him and his target, they forfeit their life. God it's good to see an actual action hero on screen again and not some eternally quipping, "non-lethal only" pussy.
      The fact that we had to see him struggle with age and fear for so long just made it better. Three of these scenes every episode would get boring, keeping it tame until the climax made it better.

      • 1 year ago
        Anonymous

        >soldier
        Tommy, not Joel.

      • 1 year ago
        Anonymous

        >dies like a b***h to a bunch of teens
        Alright

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      I wasn't sure why they did this but I think this anon gets it

      All of this was done because Neil wants people to disagree with Joel. He wants people to think he was wrong. He wants people to understand and agree with all the dumb shit that follows in part 2

      Neil doesn't understand why Joel is a hero. This should have been shot showing Joel's passion and energy at higher levels than we've ever seen. He should be like a mythological berserker, taking risks, tackling and beating half the people there to death with his bare hands. Because is just doing what every good dad would do to protect the one he loves.

      Then they go on to have Joel awkwardly stumble around afterwards treating Ellie as if she WAS his daughter, like something snapped in him and he now had to lie and have this toxic obsession with her instead of being a normal man who came to love her by the end and wouldn't let the corrupt, moronic fireflies kill her for a moonshot that had almost no chance of working.

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      Even still it was a weak af sequence that could have been executed (lol) 100x better. It was just some fast forward on cheat codes version

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      i also instantly thought of a mass shooting when the scene came on.
      bravo HBO, i guess.

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      would have been more kino if it was shot like that one scene in Fargo

  5. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    The writers either weren't able to see the dissonance in their story, or they deliberately did it this way with their intention being that Joel becomes super-competent and violent when he's desperate, kinda like a momma bear lashing out to protect its young. Either way its stupid and the game did it miles better.

  6. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    Infected are basically immune to gunfire unless you headshot them

  7. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    He's been like that throughout the show, in the museum he can hardly land a hit, but he's head shotting moving infected from the tower in the 6th episode.
    Also he snaps a dudes neck like it's nothing and fights off two bandits while recovering from a stab wound

  8. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    I didn't mind him killing the first two guards because it actually shows how he did it. I can't stand it when they splice a bunch of potential scenes together for a montage of kills. I don't know who they think their audience is but we want to see Joel killing people, we don't want to fast forward to the next dialogue scene. The first two episodes of this show made me so amped for Joelkino and then they start doing everything they can to keep Joel off the screen, I don't understand what the strategy was or what kind of game they think they're adapting.

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      I guess they can't have the audience get to like him too much considering pt 2

  9. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    >nooo joel was in the wrong, stop thinking he was a good guy

    if you wouldnt do what joel did in this situation you are fricked in the head

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      i look forward to ellie finding out what happened and suffering from immense survivors guilt because of it, causing her to intensely resent joel for what he did.

      • 1 year ago
        Anonymous

        she already has severe survivor's guilt. this will send it over the edge, around the circle and come back out the other side as normal. he rebooted her.

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      exactly this. It's not a grey area. You either agree with Joel or your morals are completely wired backwards. You are fricked in the head and should be lobotomized.

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      what would ellie have wanted if she was given the choice?

      • 1 year ago
        Anonymous

        Who cares?

        • 1 year ago
          Anonymous

          so you admit that it was just a selfish act on the part of joel, makes sense.

          • 1 year ago
            Anonymous

            Yes, obviously. And there's nothing wrong with it.

      • 1 year ago
        Anonymous

        irrelevant; she wasn't given a choice. they decided to kill her and lied to her about it. they refused to let joel see or talk to her because they knew she might say no, and then they would have forced her anyway.
        one random doctor "thinks" chopping her brain out might lead to a cure, and they rushed right into the operating room without so much as a second opinion. they didn't even shave her head for frick's sake, this was clearly such a rush job that it would have been a miracle if it'd worked. if they were in the moral right, they wouldn't have had to lie to her or deny her a chance to even say goodbye.

      • 1 year ago
        Anonymous

        Maybe you’re Canadian and wickedly ok with people choosing to die, but in the civilized world we generally don’t give suicidal people the option to do it.

        • 1 year ago
          Anonymous

          Booooo, sacrifice for a cause is not suicide dummy

        • 1 year ago
          Anonymous

          >NNNOOOOO YOU HAVE TO STAY ALIVE B-B-B-BECAUSE I SAID SOOOOO
          >JUST HECKIN HOLD ONTO LIFE EVEN IF IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH ME

      • 1 year ago
        Anonymous

        She wasn't given a choice. That's why it doesn't matter. Either she dies (not her choice) or she lives (not her choice). Joel inexplicably did the right thing.

      • 1 year ago
        Anonymous

        She’s 14 she could never make a decision like that

      • 1 year ago
        Anonymous

        So fight for her to have that choice

  10. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    it was bullshit and the video game source really showed there. most normalgays seem to be eating it up though.

  11. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    I'm guessing this shit is popular with normalgays?
    I love how, even in the benighted year of 2023, a grizzled White guy gunning down a bunch of goons to save a young girl still pulls an audience. ESG can't wipe that away.

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      They didn't really show anything, he just walks through the building one-shotting everyone to ominous music. In the game you had to sneak around and position yourself well in order to kill that many goons, every time bullets start flying in this show it's like a ruined orgasm.

  12. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    I can see an argument for calling Joel’s motives selfish in the sense that he just could t bear the thought of losing another daughter. I don’t really agree with the conclusion the series wants you to make though, like what are the chances of successful cure/ vaccine with just one specimen? And even if they somehow got it, how would they get the resources to mass produce and distribute it?

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      The practicality of it is sorta beside the point. It's a shot at something, and Ellie throughout the episode talks how about everything that's happened "has to be for something". My own interpretation is absolutely that Ellie would have agreed to it willingly if given the choice. The survivor's guilt she would feel if she ever found out what Joel did would likely be so severe. Imagine knowing that your death might (longshot for sure) have saved countless lives in the future?

      • 1 year ago
        Anonymous

        The practicality is not besides the point. It's the entire point. One person is more valuable than "a shot at something." That IS the entire point. You don't lie to and kill a little girl because it might save humanity. That is selling your soul to the devil.

        Like stated earlier in this thread: if you don't see it that way you are fricked in the head. You are a fricking psychopath.

        • 1 year ago
          Anonymous

          I guess I disagree, because my interpretation is that Ellie would have wanted to give up her life for the remote chance, and in the end I respect the choice of the individual more than what society dictates is right.

          • 1 year ago
            Anonymous

            Ellie might have wanted to. But she wasn't given the choice. She was lied to and was going to be killed for a pipe dream by mentally ill communists. Joel did the right thing. If you disagree you're a psychopath.

            joel just wanted to save her because he desperately wanted to be absolved of what he saw as his own failure to protect sarah back when the shit kicked off.

            my daughter is dead =(
            here is a new daughter 😀

            Having an emotional and self interested motivation does not mean that he made the wrong decision ethically. If you remove Joel's personal feelings from the situation, he was right to save her. His emotional investment in her is additive to the situation.

            I don't know why leftists have this bizarre notion that if you are emotionally invested in something, that means it changes whether you did the right thing or not. Like if nobody knew about Sarah and just saw Joel kill all those people to save Ellie, you might think he did the right thing. But instead you say
            >oh he had a personal motivation. He was just being selfish and now it's wrong.
            this is what we mean when we say that liberalism is a mental disorder. You are incapable of perceiving right and wrong.

        • 1 year ago
          Anonymous

          joel just wanted to save her because he desperately wanted to be absolved of what he saw as his own failure to protect sarah back when the shit kicked off.

          my daughter is dead =(
          here is a new daughter 😀

      • 1 year ago
        Anonymous

        >The practicality of it is sorta beside the point
        No it's one of the main things that makes Joel's choice the morally correct one. It was such a long shot, such an amateurish operation, that even Marlene was only able to say "Our doctor *thinks* this is our only shot." No second opinions, no attempts to derive a culture from her blood, hell it's possible to perform brain surgery without killing the patient that's what brain surgeons are for, why was killing her the only choice? It was a half-assed rush job.

        Now if they said "We know for certain, after speaking to multiple doctors over many years, that this is the only way for us to create a cure. It will definitely work, and we've slowly assembled a team of top surgeons who are confident they can pull this off." Then it would have been a more selfish choice, but as it stands he basically saved her from a bunch of kidnapping scammers.

        • 1 year ago
          Anonymous

          Joel still would have done it if it was certain; his decision had zero to do with the viability of the operation so it's a bit of a cop out to say "well it might not have worked anyway!" especially when everyones including ellie is fine with killing people all day to ensure them and theirs survival anyway

          • 1 year ago
            Anonymous

            But it wasn't certain, and that's a factor. This is the same as saying "Ellie would have said yes if she was given a choice." She wasn't given a choice, and that matters. Judge the choices based on the scenario we're given, not on hypotheticals.

            • 1 year ago
              Anonymous

              Do you think if Ellie said "Joel, I'm going to sacrifice myself for the chance of a cure" that Joel would have let it happen?

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                see

                see [...]
                Since we're playing hypotheticals, would Joel have allowed it if Ellie had been given a choice? If she took a few days to think about it and said, "Joel, I understand the risks but I'm going to volunteer for the surgery. It can't be for nothing."
                Well there are two posisble outcomes, right? If it was a sure thing, team of surgeons with state of the art equipment etc. then he might have agreed. Said his tearful goodbyes and allowed Ellie to make her own decision, to sacrifice herself for the good of humanity.
                But then, if it was this piece of shit, run down, post apocalypse surgery with a single doctor and no second opinion or attempt to resolve things non-lethally... he probably would have stopped it anyway. Even if Ellie chose it, he would understand that she'd be giving up her life for a fricking moon shot, a 99% chance they just frick things up and she dies for nothing. He'd act in the interest of her safety rather than her decisions, in the way parents often do.

                But also, what if there were other immune people? What if the surgeon had done that kind of surgery before, and Joel was told this? What if Ellie had terminal cancer and she'd only have a few months left at best? We can go around in circles guessing what Joel would have done in this or that scenario, but the actual show only has one reality.

                Ellie was lied to and forced into surgery without her consent, and Joel was given very little assurance that 1) this was the only option or 2) it would even work. In my opinion, with these conditions, his choice was the right one. What he might have done in another story isn't relevant.

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                A moon shot at a cure is still something Ellie could agree to given the alternative of no shot. I never really cared what he did but you're talking about morals regarding characters that are immoral. If it was some stranger and not his surrogate daughter going under the knife Joel wouldn't have done anything to stop it. So it's ultimately a selfish decision but, like, duh. That's the point of conflict in the story

              • 1 year ago
                Anonymous

                >A moon shot at a cure is still something Ellie could agree to given the alternative of no shot.
                Right, but if your teenage daughter wanted to sell an organ for a shitload of lottery tickets because there's a chance it'd make her rich, you'd call her an idiot and refuse to help. And if some shady butthole tried to force her to, you'd kill them. The fact that it was such an uncertain possibility matters a lot; trading her life for a mere chance of a cure, knowing that she's a traumatized kid with a ton of survivor's guilt, isn't something he'd let her do. If it was guarantee, that's a different story.

                To look at it another way, what if she's the only immune person on the planet, and later they find out that the only way to synthesize a cure is to regularly extract her blood and use it to grow cultures. This one doctor was wrong, and a team of experts is able to find the truth; the cultures won't grow in isolation, only in her blood. When she dies, the source of the cure dies with her. That hasty "let's scoop that brain out before anyone tries to stop us" attitude seems pretty stupid now, doesn't it? There's a chance killing her gives you a cure, but there's also a chance killing her doesn't give you a cure and also kills the only immune person in the world. Marlene was willing to take that risk. Ellie might have been willing to. Joel wasn't.

        • 1 year ago
          Anonymous

          joel would absolutely have done the same thing even if there was a state of the art equipment, a small army of qualified doctors on hand and all the logistics necessary required to produce and distribute the vaccine. his choice was entirely about his own fixation on ellie as a replacement daughter

          • 1 year ago
            Anonymous

            see

            But it wasn't certain, and that's a factor. This is the same as saying "Ellie would have said yes if she was given a choice." She wasn't given a choice, and that matters. Judge the choices based on the scenario we're given, not on hypotheticals.

            Since we're playing hypotheticals, would Joel have allowed it if Ellie had been given a choice? If she took a few days to think about it and said, "Joel, I understand the risks but I'm going to volunteer for the surgery. It can't be for nothing."
            Well there are two posisble outcomes, right? If it was a sure thing, team of surgeons with state of the art equipment etc. then he might have agreed. Said his tearful goodbyes and allowed Ellie to make her own decision, to sacrifice herself for the good of humanity.
            But then, if it was this piece of shit, run down, post apocalypse surgery with a single doctor and no second opinion or attempt to resolve things non-lethally... he probably would have stopped it anyway. Even if Ellie chose it, he would understand that she'd be giving up her life for a fricking moon shot, a 99% chance they just frick things up and she dies for nothing. He'd act in the interest of her safety rather than her decisions, in the way parents often do.

            But also, what if there were other immune people? What if the surgeon had done that kind of surgery before, and Joel was told this? What if Ellie had terminal cancer and she'd only have a few months left at best? We can go around in circles guessing what Joel would have done in this or that scenario, but the actual show only has one reality.

            Ellie was lied to and forced into surgery without her consent, and Joel was given very little assurance that 1) this was the only option or 2) it would even work. In my opinion, with these conditions, his choice was the right one. What he might have done in another story isn't relevant.

      • 1 year ago
        Anonymous

        The practicality is not besides the point. It's the entire point. One person is more valuable than "a shot at something." That IS the entire point. You don't lie to and kill a little girl because it might save humanity. That is selling your soul to the devil.

        Like stated earlier in this thread: if you don't see it that way you are fricked in the head. You are a fricking psychopath.

        It's less a clear choice in the games. You find out the fireflies have operated on other "ellies" and it didn't work out.

  13. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    The Fireflies were such tremendous jobbers that it's hard to take seriously

  14. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    The real problem is the show has Joel just spill his guts for 5 hours about how much he loves Ellie now, would do anything for her, sees her as his daughter, is desperate to foster that kind of relationship etc. He's a massive simp for her when in the games it's supposed to be a very suppressed and relatively subtle thing, which is why it's much more impactful that when it comes down to it - his extreme actions show us how he feels about her, not his words. The way the show presented him it's like, of course he's going to kill a bunch of people and potentially doom the world to save her. He's been pretty much telling us he'd do so for the whole series

  15. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    >What did they mean by this?
    it means that whoever was in charge of choreographing, shooting and editing the last shootout sucked balls at his job

  16. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    he got stat buffed because he was saving his daughterfu

  17. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    How come there has been no webms made of the final episode? It must be absolute trash

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      I make webms but the acting in the last episode is so bad that it's like a Comedy. I don't know why it's so bad compared to episode 8 but my guess is both episodes had different directors.

      Joel was a gangster thug/raider for like 20 years which is why he trusts nobody and kills everyone. He would have killed the old Indian couple with no remorse.
      Childhood is thinking Joel is cool. Adulthood is knowing he's a psycho.

      I think Joel is cool and women like psychos so you're just a cuck.

  18. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    Frick the Fireflies, Joel didn’t kill enough.

  19. 1 year ago
    Anonymous
    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      that's high dishonest about the situation.

  20. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    Joel was a gangster thug/raider for like 20 years which is why he trusts nobody and kills everyone. He would have killed the old Indian couple with no remorse.
    Childhood is thinking Joel is cool. Adulthood is knowing he's a psycho.

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