>one of the biggest and arguably best comics of the 90's
>nobody ever talks about it
 |
 Nothing Ever Happens Shirt $21.68 |
|
>one of the biggest and arguably best comics of the 90's. >nobody ever talks about it
>one of the biggest and arguably best comics of the 90's
>nobody ever talks about it
|
Nothing Ever Happens Shirt $21.68 |
|
I’ve never heard of it. Why do you think it stands out?
Mostly cheesecake
he's asked what made it stand out.
It sold entirely on the art, when Campbell and other decent artists left there's nothing to care about.
Even as a concept it feels 10 years behind- referencing "Gen X" 15 years into Gen Y. Comics are always rerribly behind the zeitgeist; Gen 13 seems like it should've been a late 80's-1993, not STARTING in 93. The cultural trends it was trying to reference started dying in the next few years, starting with Cobain's suicide.
My older cousin was telling me how big this shit was in the 90s and i just will never understand. The girls are kinda hot though
I'm not old enough to readit when it came out, but assuming you grew up in a generation familiar with anime, look at it this way, you know how part of the reason shonen anime is popular is having younger protagonists kids can relate to better? Gen 13 is one of the first comics to have younger characters who were actually in the same cultural zeitgeist as younger readers, listened to the same music and wore the same fashion- not like say, Teen Titans or the X-men books where the characters were teens but effectively acted like grown adults.
(that said I think Young Justice did teen heroes that felt like teenagers much better. Gen 13 is like what teens were like in 90's movies)
>Gen 13 is one of the first comics to have younger characters who were actually in the same cultural zeitgeist as younger readers
I find that hard to believe.
I mean just read any "teen" comics from before then, most of them were clearly written by older guys trying to write teenagers but falling behind on trends.
Bob Haney tried his best in the 60's with teen titans, other writers tied capturing cultural trends in the 70's with mixed results(Roy Harper's band. Great Frog!), but Gen 13 benefited from having a younger artist and writer who were closer in age to the characters.
Is it legit 90's teen experience? Probably not. but it rang to an idealization of it in a way other books didn't hit.
Gen13 was more or less written by those same middle aged men.
It was written, illustrated, and created by guys in their 30's and 20's. Campbell was 21 at the time.
anons don't actually know how to google and just assume mysterious boomers are behind all comics
The cognitive dissonance here is off the charts.
You being wrong is not "cognitive dissonance".
there is no "dissonance". Yes, Gen 13's writing wasn't 100% authentic, but it's IMAGE comics, and the art went a long way.
The fact that Grunge didn't represent anything about the Grunge movement make me think these guy had zero ideas what the youths were doing in the 90s.
He had the grunge look and attitude down to a tee.
Burnout looked and acted more Grunge then Grunge did while Grunge acted more like the Weasel himself.
>implying wheezing the juice isn’t grunge as frick
It's not, that's like the opposite of grunge.
Oh yeah? How so?
Grunge is the grey cloudy seattle sound while Pauly is a sunfried beach bum.
Grunge and surf had a lot of crossover. Pauly Shore can’t even surf and that’s pretty fricking grunge to be a surfer who doesn’t surf.
Plus Eddie Vedder was a surfing beach bum before the other PJ guys found him. All that west coast shit has a lot of cultural crossover
Grunge was nothing like Eddie Vedder.
You don't know grunge.
The only thing Grunge represented as a movement was shit music and the fact that unlike punk or metal the "unwanted kids" of the 90s didn't even have the balls to do anything other than be depressed and filthy. It's Emo's unwashed, self hating dad just sitting on a couch, scratching his balls, and crying about how nobody cares. Literally the most pathetic musical accompaniment to a generation since like, free style jazz.
Typically reaction from a dude who wasn't there.
Why don't you go yell at some clouds old man?
Bruh I was literally there, you homosexual. The grunge kids were always smelly frickwads and wannabe prostitutes who were too scared to actually sleep around.
>Bruh I was literally there
No you clearly weren't because you're equating Pauly Shore to Chris Cornell.
Anon I hate to tell you this but there are multiple people calling you moronic. I haven't mentioned Pauly even fricking once. You're a moronic homosexual.
Subcultural looks aren't really defined until after the fact,and even then they're redefined. 80's Goths wouldn't shop at Hot topic or wear sexy cute shirts or dye their hair purple, yet people consider Raven and Zone-tan "goth girls".
Even in the 90's Cobain made a song whining about dumb jocks and normies listening to their music and not getting it. Grunge would be that guy, he likes grunge because it sounds cool and sexy women also like it.
Yep. Grunge is basically the type of person Kurt Cobain describes in the song In Bloom. That’s also what makes him an accurate depiction of a young person in the 90’s.
No, Percival Chang is an awkward genius who developed the laissez-faire slacker persona as a way to fit in with others of his generation. He's ironically the most grunge thing.
No that just makes him a poser.
>Grunge? More like Cringe lol.
Anon, this is a perfect description of what 'grunge' was. You kinda had to be there.
That's not what Grunge was at all.
Yes, it was. Grunge was always trust fund homosexuals posing and gesticulating apropos of nothing. Just look at Hair of the Dog, the ultimate grunge superband - every one of them a trust fund baby with broken attention prostitute issues. Grunge was no different from the Laurel Canyon psy-op boomers called the free love 60's, and you either lapped it up, or are too young to understand.
You're being ridiculous trying to avoid admitting that Grunge was created by people who wasn't in touch with youth culture as you want to admit.
Anon, that's exactly what I'm saying. Are you fricking moronic?
All 'youth culture movements' are nothing but psy-ops perpetrated upon morons. You'll continue to deny this, though.
Then it doesn't matter when you were born because Gen13 is also entirely manufactured arrifice and disconnected from the actual age ot was created in.
And I never said anything about when you were born mattering, either, moron.
Why don't you discuss the comic?
I have been. Leave this thread and have a nice day, derailing homosexual.
I have been following this entire conversation and you haven't talk about the comic once.
I have though, my thoughts is that going camp was the one choice and that they should've stuck with Choi's more human take.
Different anon here. How did Roxy acquire that green teleporting rat?
I forgot.
Also, why wasn’t Fairchild’s older sister (not Roxy) not gen active like her?
I forgot.
>How did Roxy acquire that green teleporting rat?
It just showed up at a club being chased by a space bounty hunter.
>why wasn’t Fairchild’s older sister (not Roxy) not gen active like her?
You mean the one with the husband trying to hit on Caitlin and who stopped mattering? Probably wasn't Alex Fairchild's daughter.
Yeah that one.
Okay, so I guess she was Caitlyn’s mother’s kid from a previous marriage.
That's you agreeing with what I said earlier about Choi, moron. Way to 'follow' a conversation.
Gen 13 isn't nearly as inaccessible as you like think.
I never said anything about Gen 13 being 'inaccessable', ESLtard.
Why don't you talk about the comic?
I have been.
I'd take hippies building a stage at a farm over zoomers wanting to kill themselves browsing the internet.
Anon, one built off of the other and they lead to the same place.
And the boomers were still more hardworking and motivated.
The boomers had easy access to resources and little regulation to chain them. Then they changed that on behalf of their corporate overlords to screw their children.
They had more regulations on them than teenagers in the great depression, and those great depression teens had more regulations than industrial era teenagers. What's your point?
Grunge doesn't even like Grunge though, he makes fun of Burnout for listening to it.
But still younger, relatively, than old company men like Haney or Wolfman were writing their Titans.
Plus it can't be understated how important Campbell was to the book's look, and he absolutely was looking at fashion and trying to keep up with trends- even if the result is more the central casting version of a 90's teen than the authentic experience.
>Is it legit 90's teen experience? Probably not. but it rang to an idealization of it in a way other books didn't hit.
Cambell's unfinished next work, Wildsiderz, was like this for the early 2000s era. It's not an "authentic" teen experience, but it's closer to the experience as sold to you by movies and TV shows of the era than any of the "hello, fellow teenagers" books written by middle aged guys Marvel or DC were doing, and comfy as hell because of it.
Look at Mark Waid's Champions for how bad a middle aged guy trying to write teens can be.
Hope you mean Young Justice as in the original comic and not the shitty Greg Weisman show.
Oh god yes, Greg Weisman is terminally unhip which is saying something because David isn't exactly Mr. cool.
It was a mix of things that made it popular.
First, I won't even pretty breasts and ass didn't sell comics. Caitlin Fairchild was smoking hot, and consistently was winning "sexiest comic book character" polls. You'd go into your local comic book shop and boom instant boners because Caitlin Fairchild is fricking everywhere in that skin tight green outfit showing off her breasts and those sexy legs and ass.
But it wasn't just boobs and butts selling comics. The original run with Campbell was really good. Great art and great story. Well-written characters. I remember they actually sounded like how real people talked at the time. The references and slang they used weren't dated as frick. I'd compare Gen13 to Generation X. Generation X had a character named "Mondo" in it. Mondo. Like it's the fricking Ninja Turtles. Cowabunga! Tubular! Just lame as frick. Meanwhile, Gen13 had a character named Grunge and guess what, grunge was at its height at the time. And guess what, Grunge nailed the grunge aesthetic that was again popular at the time. The relationships and personalities of the characters just felt genuine and real, and thus were compelling.
>well written characters
Why the frick are you lying to yourself like that.
Well hey let’s compare it to what was going on with other comics at the time. Spider-Man is a great comic. Everyone loves Spider-Man. So what great writing will we find in the pages of Spider-Man during Gen13’s original run.
Oh well look at that it’s the Clone Saga. Wow.
I stand by what I said. Gen13 in its original run was well written. Its characters were well written. Marvel and DC fricking sucked at the time, they weren’t putting out anything remotely worth reading at the time so Gen13 was where it was at.
You're just comparing trash to trash without actually creating a case why Gen13 should be considered better then the clone saga.
How old were you in 1994?
Well I was born 1993 so barely 1 year old but I guess growing up in the 90s is not enough for you?
So you're talking about an era you have never experienced (no, being 7 years old at 2000 is not "growing up in the 90's"). Maybe you should shut the frick up?
I was more there then you were you 90s kid wannabe.
I was born in 1980 so no, you were not. I was. I experienced it and you did not.
You weren't even old enough to BUY a comic until the 90's were already over.
If you can't talk about this comic who literally grew up doing the 90s then you're a loser who can never find someone to talk with.
If you weren’t able to read the comic when it first came out no you are not allowed to talk about it. Respect your elders and close your mouth.
Now let’s talk about Fairchild’s breasts.
>If you weren’t able to read the comic when it first came out no you are not allowed to talk about it.
Then we have nothing to discuss.
You have nothing to discuss. Buh-bye.
Okay. Well I’m turning 45 next month. I liked reading Gen13 when I was a teenager. I still like it to this day. But then again I was at the right age and the right time to get it and you weren’t. You were literally unable to even read at the time.
>I still like it to this day.
But you can never find someone to talk about it with because you chase them away.
I’m married and I have kids, anon, because I’m old. My hair is greying out. My nose hairs won’t stop growing. I have back issues. I talk about gay old comics and cartoons and video games for my younger years for fun with other dads.
Go talk about things from your childhood and leave my memories alone. Get off my lawn. Frick off.
Different anon here. I was 15 in 1994 and remember Gen 13 fondly. It was so popular, music stores were selling it in their stores in malls.
It was popular because it copied popular things.
Yeah. Hell I remember music stores in the mall also selling some early anime like Akira and vampire Hunter D.
In short it was a lame fad for boomers and gen x boomerlites who cooked themselves over things they knew being referenced in their capeshit. It was big bang theory bazinga for tasteless boomer coomers.
Speak English please.
It was a coom comic for boomers who wanted to read coom comics about teenage girls. It was not well written. The characters weren't good. It was sold entirely by the coom art.
In English.
Boomers bought it for illustrated teenage breasts and ass. Simple as.
Baby boomers weren’t buying Gen13. It was popular among teens and young adults who would be gen x not baby boomers. Baby boomers were freaking out because they thought their old Superman comics were worth a fortune.
Gen X are the same as boomers. They both act the same way and believe the same moronic shit.
In a few years gen alpha will say the same about millennials. And in turn, Gen Beta will say Millenials and Zoomers were the same.
same as it’s been for hundreds of years.
OK boomer
Gen X is the boomer masterpiece: they convinced them to skip the rebellion against their parents and take it to their grandparents' generation, or made them apathetically nihilistic.
Yep. Their favorite "anti-establisment" bands like Nirvana and Rage Against the Machine always worked for major corporations they were signed to. These bands like Foo Fighters, Offspring and RATM came out as establishment shills when they spent lockdown shilling for the covid vaccines. Gen X thinks they are antiestablishment rebels, but they conformed even harder than baby boomers dead. I feel sorry for all fat bald gen X homosexuals out there. Truly the worst generation.
Nah, we shrugged. Enjoy those shitskins this caused the boomers to import, along with your inadequate wageslaving.
That's a long as fricking leg
Grunge was more of a skater kid than a grunge kid.
Which leads into the next thing that worked for it. At that time in the 90's, people were all about being "alternative." You wanted to listen to alternative music and dress alternatively. Marvel and DC were the mainstream and thus considered lame as frick. Image Comics was the alternative. The whole creation of them as a publisher was rooted in Marvel and DC fricking over artists, so Image said they wouldn't frick over artists and said they wouldn't retain any of the IPs and instead allow the artists to retain creative rights over their own works. And this was at a time when these artist were making big names for themselves. The names "Todd McFarlane," "Jim Lee," "J. Scott Campbell," and frick even "Rob Liefeld" were names that sold comics. The end result? People ate this up and Image Comics became the "cool" comics to buy.
This was also going on during the speculation boom of the 90's and here's Image Comics printing off a bunch of issue 1s for their brand new series. And they were also doing tons of variant covers at the time as well. Again people ate this up and bought up these comics.
Then you had the whole idea that was going around with people my age that DC and Marvel comics weren't edgy enough. Comics like Spawn and Gen13 were viewed as more mature and thus better than their Marvel and DC counterparts.
But ultimately it was a product of its time and it had its time. As another anon said, Campbell left the comic and Gen13 went to shit. Image had issues behind the scenes and eventually broke up. But ultimately I feel like it's a pretty good time capsule for what was going on during a brief point in time in the mid-90's.
Yeah, this is accurate, Image was the alternative to Marvel and DC, dressing like a lumberjack was the alternative to putting effort into your appearance, alternative comedy was the alternative to being funny, grunge was the alternative to music. It was a weird time to live through but at least the comics were fun.
>Campbell left the comic and Gen13 went to shit
Dude what? Did you even read the book? It increased in quality by a lot with Arcudi.
I mean that's really it, it sold mostly on the cheesecake art. The sales started declining during the Arcudi/Frank run because Frank really isn't much of a cheesecake artist even though the writing improved since Arcudi isn't a shit writer. Truthfully the only thing actually worth reading is all of the stuff Adam Warren did (Grunge: The Movie, Magical Drama Queen Roxy, and v2 #43-44 and #60-77). His more irreverant, hyper style of writing really fit the "attractive young people goofing off and also some times they're superheroes" concept of the book way more than any other writer.
>Caitlin Fairchild was smoking hot
Roxy was hotter and then made even better when Warren really upped the pitiable moeness of her personality.
I love the issues drawn by Adam Warren but I hate that it has artists other than Adam Warren.
>arguably best comics of the 90's
Yeah that is arguable.
i don't consume anything with a female protag
hell yeah, gay pride!
You bought Gen13 for the T&A, simple as that.
If you wanted something relatable for being a teenager growing up in a sucky life where it felt like everybody and everything was working against you, you'd be looking at X-Men or Spiderman. Some of these occasionally had decent stories, too. You wouldn't be jumping into Gen13 because you thought it reflected your self-identity or any nonsense like that. You'd get into it because it looked like a porn mag from the front.
Not that many teenagers were reading comics back in the 90s anyway. It was the same fat neckbeards that we have today, in some cases quite literally. There weren't the big boom of comic-based movies at the time, and most would probably be starting with Spiderman/Batman/X-Men thanks to the Spiderman animated series, X-Men, and BTAS airing at the time.
> If you wanted something relatable for being a teenager growing up in a sucky life where it felt like everybody and everything was working against you, you'd be looking at X-Men or Spiderman
Lol Clone Saga
Lol Age of Apocalypse
A lot more teenagers read comics in the 90’s than you think. Stuff like Spawn was pretty popular.
>Not that many teenagers were reading comics back in the 90s anyway
You officially have no fricking idea what you're talking about.
>If you wanted something relatable for being a teenager growing up in a sucky life where it felt like everybody and everything was working against you, you'd be looking at X-Men or Spiderman.
Christ I just know you're basing this off soundbites made summarizing these characters decades later. I know the same ones.
>Spider-man is about a normal kid struggling to maintain his social life and take care of his aunt with his superhero life!
>X-men is a bout protecting a word prejudiced against them!
At the time gen13 was coming out, Spider-man and X-men were long running soap operas, Spider-man had a supermodel wife and a clone, X-men were knee deep in crossovers, these weren't relatable edgy teenager stories. J.Scott Campbell dressing these characters like MTV teenagers still went a long way of where those characters were at the time.
Completely out of touch.
Dumbass contrarian.
>Not that many teenagers were reading comics back in the 90s anyway
Compared to what? Millions of them were because comics were cheap and accessible. And a critical aspect of the success of Gen13 and Image as a whole is that a lot of those teenagers were sold on the idea that they too could be rich and somewhat famous comics book artists and immersed themselves in the medium for that reason. Kids looked at image style art and were attracted to it because it looked like the art they’d make if they just got a little bit better, it seemed an attainable bar to reach.
>Millions of them were because comics were cheap and accessible.
Comics were not accesible during the 90's. That is when the speculators market boomed and you have a shit ton of overpriced crap being resold.
The only teenagers that were reading comics in the 90's were the same ones that read comics today: the dorkey ones.
Comics were sold everywhere in the 90's. Every grocery store, pharmacy, and convenience store had them. The 90's were also the age of the mall and you better bet every mall had at least a couple places to buy comics, whether they were dedicated comic shops or bookstores or whatever. You also had comic/magazine kiosks in malls. And like another anon said in this thread, even music stores carried comics like Gen13 for a time. You could also just get a subscription and they'd mail the comics to you.
As for the speculator market, that took off because a story ran that the first Superman comic sold for a bunch at auction. This caused people to start speculating on comics, which in turn caused the comic industry to cater to the speculation with tons of number ones and variant cover. The thing is, the speculation bubble popped because comics were too available. Most of those rare number one variant covers they printed aren't worth anything because too many people have them.
I'm not the anon you replied to, and I'm not speaking on his behalf, but you really are out of your element here. Please keep to topics that you actually have some knowledge about. The 90's comic industry clearly isn't one of those things.
Yep. I remember buying comics at a Rite Aid as a kids because it was just down the street. I very seldomly ever visited comic book shops.
And pretty much every kid I knew had at least a few comics. X-Men Animated Series and Batman TAS introduced a lot of us to comics. I was in middle school when I started reading stuff like Spawn and Gen13 because they were the “cool comics.” I tried buying an issue of Witchblade once but the cashier wouldn’t sell it to me. Wound up getting a few issues because a friend’s dad bought him pretty much anything after the divorce and he trading some comics with me to complete his Spawn collection. Hell I even read Beavis and Butt-head comics at that age and thought it was funny how they’d riff on other comic books in lieu of music videos.
My friend, the direct market has been a thing since the late 70's. You could say anything you want about comics sold in malls and whatnot, but those sales were negligible. The majority of comic sales in the 90s occurred in comic book shops. I don't remember the exact figure, but only 2 of 10 comics were sold outside of the direct market. So, the one who probably needs education is you, and don't just parrot whatever Cinemaphile tells you.
Being able to do it, and actually do it are different things. Comic book shops were the main channel to sell in the 90's.
You can make up statistics but in the real world I was able to just go to my grocery store and buy comics in the 90s. They weren’t rare or hard to obtain at all.
Congratulations, anon. You were a dorky kid and part of the minority of comic readers.
A lot of kids read comics, it was a normal part of growing up. It was only weird to still read comics in your teens.
Congratulations(?). Your group of friends consisted of dorky kids. It is not strange because we tend to flock around people who share our interests. Anecdotal evidence and such.
Because saying that millions of kids read comics in the 90's is an hyperbole don't backed up for the evidence.
Anecdotal evidence beats you making up an irrelevant statistic.
I am neither of those anons and I bought comics all the time at drugstores and then traded them with other kids at school.
Sorry but you saying some bullshit isn’t going to erase that life experience from my memory and make me believe you especially when you are being a petulant child about this. There’s a reason so many anons are disagreeing with you and it’s because you’re not only wrong about this but you are being a c**t about being wrong about this.
Grow some people skills, autist.
>Your group of friends consisted of dorky kids.
What are you on about? Back then, comics and cartoons were *for* kids. They were the target demographic. The middle aged adults into those things were the ones who were considered losers, but they were an extremely lucrative demographic because a kid could only afford maybe one or two comics a month but those whales would be buying multiple issues per week. So they went exclusively for the whales and left the minnows to mostly rot and now the demographic crisis is finally happening which is funny because now there's no stigma for an adult to be into capeshit and cartoons.
>anon telling another anon what their childhood was like
Why do so many people here think everything is statistics?
You say I shouldn’t just parrot what other people on Cinemaphile say but then want me to blindly agree with what you say without any proof even though it runs contrary to my own lived experiences, and are so mad that I won’t just say parrot you that you try to insult me in the most impotent way because guess fricking what anyone posting on Cinemaphile is a fricking dork and always was. You weren’t the cool kid and you certainly aren’t now so get over it.
Nah pretty much every kid read comics in the 90s. Shows like X-Men and Batman TAS were huge and at least for a while you had kids reading comics.
That isn’t to say they were all huge fans but it wasn’t weird for a boy to have a couple comics.
The congratulations thing is pure passive-aggressive homosexualry.
This anon gets it. It’s hard for Zoomers to know comics were easily accessible everywhere from 1977 to 1996
DC and Image didn't go Diamond exclusive until 1995 and Marvel followed in 1996, so there was half a decade where normie kids were able to buy comics.
I remember a lot of kids reading comics back then
Are you mentally ill. Way way way more kids and teens were reading comics back then. Only a small amount of people even had internet in 1994.
>Way way way more kids and teens were reading comics back then.
Especially comics like Spawn and Gen13.
reminder to watch this
I did... It was okay, shame Rainmaker was pretty much written out of the story.
>nobody ever talks about it
Good, less likely they ruin it.
>and arguably best
I don't even think you believe that
>I don’t even think
Correct, you do not think.
Some might argue dropping the teenage superheroes on the run was a brilliant subversion of an already done over plot while other might argue the series never came up with a good plot to replace it.
The art and fanservice in this comic is lame in hindsight. Boomers were easy to impress
Meanwhile zoomers lost their minds and their nuts because some boy put on a dress and spun around to a bad song about a busted out ex-porn star for a couple seconds.
That's a biological girl you dumb boomer gay
Oh yeah? Prove it. Post his nudes.
Nyannyancosplay is a girl with two x chromosomes, sorry to shatter your gay boomer fantasies
You still haven’t posted any proof, just cope over the fact you jerked it to a troony.
She still streams on twitch. I never jerked it to this flat chested mid girl. Stop projecting, boomer.
>She
He.
>streams on twitch
So do a lot of trannies.
>girl
Boy.
Keep coping.
Nyannyancosplay is a biological female with two x chromosomes I'm sorry that porn addiction destroyed your boomer brain.
Why are continuing to engage with him? He clearly wants to believe she’s a boy because his Gen X brain has been damaged by zoomer porn.
Oh shit were you the poster ranting about tramp stamps in a supergirl thread? Haha
No, but I'm impressed that your old boomer brain remembers that.
Gen V is Gen13 done right.
pffft haha
The writing for the plot and characters are unironically better quality then the lack of story Gen13 had going on.
They are unrelated besides having the word "Gen" in them and having young adult characters. Even then, Gen V's college kids are even more clearly older writers attempting to write college kids.
Gen V does hormonal teen with superpowers better then Gen13 could ever hope.
I like how this thread is a bunch of older anons who know what they’re talking about versus younger anons who were like one year old or not even born when the comic first came out and are talking out of their ass.
The older anons don't know what the frick grunge music is, they don't know what they're talking about at all.
>hat the frick grunge music
Neither did most people at the time. you couldn't just go online and have the parameters of what grunge culture was. It was some of the biggest songs at the time, it wasn't some underground scene, normies listed to it.
You not knowing what it is just makes you trying to gatekeep the 90s dumb.
No one's trying to "gatekeep", people are just telling you it was fairly popular. Anons telling you to shut up because you weren't around isn't gatekeeping, because you have no interest in entering the gate in the first place. You just think this is a dumb comic.
t. Balding frick who’s best years are behind him
>youre oooold
Ok.
Now do us all a favor and stop acting like that makes your opinion matter at all, homosexual. You clearly didn’t get wiser.
Anon the whole reason this tangent even started was someone basically asking how older people found this interesting and how it got so big inthe 90’s. Try to follow the thread string. Here
Is the first reply that started the chain.
You're old, bald and fat. Atleast you have your boomer coomer gen 13 comic to reminisce about the glory years.
Please tell us what comics you like, and why you have such a chip on your shoulder over gen 13. I’m really curious what causes such contempt over an otherwise irrelevant comic only really liked by a specific range of comic readers
I love Batman. Got to have my Batman.
I read manga.
>why you have such a chip on your shoulder over gen 13
Not that anon but I think they wasted what could been a great cast of characters.
How did they waste them? Arcudi did a great job with them.
>Arcudi did a great job with them.
I remember John writing them from the prespective that the grumpy old man(Lynch) was right and not from the perspective real people going through shit. That's why I like DV8 more, for all the edge it's still about the teens and their internal life.
For some reason DC thinks WildCATs is what people want even though it was only good briefly a couple times and only popular for the 10 or so issues Lee drew
I assume Jim Lee has always had control over most of what's done with the Wildstorm characters since DC bought them, and he's never really seemed to have any coherent plan bigger than keep bringing back Warren Ellis long after that stopped working.
Gen13 is really the one element of early Wildstorm that kept going through the Moore/Ellis era and beyond, and Lee seems to care more about doing stuff inspired by those later years with critically acclaimed star writers than the early years with star artists, action and cheesecake. Gen13 in particular is just so 90s and the characters so tied to the zeitgeist of that time that it's virtually impossible to modernize it and make it work. Anyone asking for a modern reboot should be very careful what they wish for.
Why do people who don't read comics post these strange dismissive uninformed opinions? Wildcats was at its worst under Lee. Claremont improved the prose, Robinson turned it lyrical, Moore gave the characters personalities and advanced the status quo, Choi was absolute garbage, Lobdell created the best ironic comic of all time, Casey redefined cape comics forever in a way that's still ahead of its time, Morrison did a gorgeous 22 page symphony and Gage and Beechen honored decades of continuity in a beautiful send up. Wildcats is almost spotless.
I admit I didn't read anything after Casey but He and Moore were the only two times it was good. If you like those other runs that's fine but I would say most people would not be impressed. I didn't say Lee's was good, just that it was popular.
Moore wasn't a particularly good run compared to others. Most of his issues were wasted in big page spreads of nothing happening. People jerk him off because he's Moore and they never read other Wildcats issues.
Mostly they jerk Moore's Wildcats off over TAO
Casey is underrated as a comic writer. I'll pick up his Zod comic when it comes out
He's publishing two indies right now. You'd support him more buying those than corporate capeshit.
DV8 is a masterpiece. Shame people only read the crap "mature" reboot.
Casey's big 2 work has been variable, but but he's done good work with some 90s Image characters, his Youngblood run was great.
For as much pornbait Gen13 was, there is weirdly so little porn of the girls.
The last time the characters were hugely popular was in the 90s. Most of the other 90s Image girls except Witchblade likely have lewd pics in single digits, if any, because they'd already stopped being relevant by the time online fanart communities started taking off. Artists were producing a lot of lewds of Fairchild back then, but the comic ended and people moved on to new waifus.
Caitlin Fairchild is still one of my favs for jerking off, but in retrospect the comic itself was pretty shit honestly. I liked the John Arcudi/Gary Frank run the most.
I don't really care for the Wildstorm universe at all. Apparently Jim Lee is shoehorning Wildcats into DC right now but I ain't reading. How's that working out? Seems like a poor match.
>Seems like a poor match.
It is.
I like the first couple issues when they were still in the death valley complex, I think there's lot more meat and potatoes in terms of plot and character to be had there then them running off to La Jolla.
It's why DV8 is more interesting.
I actually never read DV8 but I always heard good things about it.
It's genuinely kinda compelling to see violent teens sociopaths trying to survive even more violent adult sociopaths.
It's kind of a mess while Ellis is writing because he was in full edge mode and you have shitty Ramos art on top of that. It gets better later on especially when Al Rio starts drawing
That shit’s not hate keeping. No one’s stopping you from reading the comic or engaging with the fandom. They’re just telling you not to assume things if you weren’t there
I have read the comic but I can't discuss the comic because some oversensitive dipshit decided I was too young to have any input.
You can discuss the comic all you want, saying it
‘Wasn’t popular” or “no one was reading comics” is being called out.
>I'm young and inexperienced but please let me tell you experienced oldgays how it really was!
You're not trying to discuss the comic, you're trying to discuss the 90's. You know nothing about the 90's. The earliest time period you can possibly have coherent memories about is early 2000.
Comics were extremely popular among teens in 1990s, that's a fact. If you 'remember' otherwise it's because you're thinking of 2005 or some shit and imagining it's the same thing. It's not.
See
You guys are the ones who make this a big deal.
Feel free to start discussing Gen13 or other Wildstorm comics whenever you feel like it.
>>one of the biggest and arguably best comics of the 90's
the absolute state of the 90s if this is what was considered good
post gen ass
>ITT: The younger generation will always hate the older generation, and the older generation will always hold the younger generation in contempt
And Tom King sucks dicks.
It's only remembered because it had cheesecake in an era where you had to go out of your way to find real porn. Nowadays, it's just a tab away so there's no reason to "discuss" the comic.
What did everyone think of the relationship revelations?
That Caitlyn and Roxy were half sisters.
That Burnout was Lynch’s son.
That Rainmaker was half sibling to Bliss and Threshold.
I love every convoluted second of it.
I must have missed that one about Rainmaker or forgot about it. Otherwise it just felt like, yeah, I was not surprised about any of it. I didn't call it or anything but I was not surprised.
It lacked a certain emotional gutpunch.
I don't even know if it mattered. I think Roxy was pissed for maybe two issues or so. I remember their dad Alex(?) Fairchild having a fun monologue about the team.
>You hate me because I'm your dad. (to Freefall)
>You hate me because I'm not your dad. (to Burnout)
>You're a primadonna. (to Rainmaker)
>You're an idiot. (to Grunge)
>And you... Blargh! Training is over! Go do sexy beach things instead lmao! (to Fairchild)
Man even her dad was horny for fairchild?
I added "do sexy beach things" as a joke, but yeah, probably everyone was sexually attracted to Caitlin.
Caitlyn's my kind of girl, had some good faps to her back in the day
It's funny how little it mattered to everyone despite both Bobby and Lynch having their entire lives kinda dominated by this mystery and they just buried it.
Did Sarah ever even reacted to the news she's reacted to the callahans? Maybe at their shared superiority complexes?
I figured Sarah would be more shocked that she was half white
I was actually gonna say something like that.
I wonder how Amy Baxter is doing 28 years later?
Grunge was also revealed to be the half brother to minor character Absolom, one of the Gamorran pirates.
>the DC crossover where Superman got to see Caitlin naked
He has X-ray vision, anon.
Gen13 embodies almost everything that's sorely missing from modern capeshit. Writers like Tom King win award after award for their dreary reinterpretations of C-list characters, drenched in self-loathing, while the industry at large looks back on 90s Image with same sort of embarrassment usually reserved for minstrel shows. It's no wonder sales keep declining.
I remember the comic. The nerd kids and the weird ones usually read it, even in public. But most just liked the cheesecake.
It was sold totally on the Art
and Choi did nothing interesting with the characters so no one cares about brining it back since it wouldn't be J Scott Campbell drawing it
I could only SEE it making a come back if they did something like "these characters were trapped in the 90s (or time travelled from the 90s) and end up in the modern world
I can't think of any writer who would be good with the type of humor though
Who cares about Choi? Other writers did interesting things with the characters, not that you read the actual comic.
I love everything Choi did at Wildstorm. The man knew his subject matter and kept everything consistent. One of the best world-builders in comics. His plots and dialogue are kinda meh, though.
>One of the best world-builders in comics
Did he really do any of that? I was always under the impression that was all Lee and whoever else Choi would work with and that the dialogue/scripting was pretty much the scope of what he did. There aren't that many comics Choi is credited with writing alone
All that early, paranoid deep state energy is 100% Brandon Choi. After he leaves, the books gradually all become more like standard capeshit, until the brits come in with their own counter-culture energy. Choi is key to the very identity of Wildstorm and developed its language.
if i didn't read gen13 how would i know that Choi didn't write anything interesting? hmmm
My post clearly implies you didn't read anything past Choi, which is why you believe whatever Choi did even matters.
Choi was the original writer and no one cared about non-Campbell issues.
(well maybe the Adam Warren issues)
If I was brining back Gen13 the humor would be the first thing I'd drop.
Just play the whole thing straight and dramatic, a young adult series about teens forcepressed into being super soldiers.
So the Simone run. It was awful.
Simone's run was bad because it read like Joss Whedon wrote it.
I'd put Tim Seeley on it. All you need is somebody who writes good characters/dialogue and isn't scared of cheesecake.
I read a bit of it. Kind of a nice breath of fresh air of new and unknown characters after reading a bunch of DC/Marvel stuff.
Well if it's anything like other Image comics of the era, it's a visual spectacle with great art, but writing and story that range from mediocre to terrible.
If you don't know what the frick you're talking about why even post?
What's wrong with what they said?
I'm gay. I didn't find any of the perfectly circular fake boobs and asses the Image guys did even remotely hot. I still read every single issue of Gen13 because the characters were funny, fascinating, fresh and Arcudi brought mature sensibilities to the table.
>still read every single issue of Gen13 because the characters were funny
Sure alright
>fascinating
Ehhh
>fresh
With a limited shelf life.
because like a lot of early image, it was a reworked marvel/dc pitch with derivative concepts/characters/and in Gen13 STORIES. it's a future children marvel book. daughter of forge and storm, son of human torch, son of absorbing man, generic cheesecake goodgirl with a huge list of potential parents, and spunky alt girl gravity manipulator with another huge list of potential parents.
>derivative powersets
That's a fundamental misunderstanding of why the book was popular and lasted as long as it did, which didn't have much at all to do with any of the characters' specific powers, or even the original "teen superheroes on the run" plot which would have been the original pitch.
It was popular because of novelty.
>didn't have much at all to do with any of the characters' specific powers, or even the original "teen superheroes on the run" plot
It's the reason I picked it up.
I also think there's a fundamental misunderstanding that people still do sexy, people still do cheesecakey, people sti do raunchy, people are still horny.
Gen13 in today might not work today but Dv8 including the cast of Gen13 would.
I like how Burnout has big zuko energy here.
My boy Frostbite would definitely get Fairchild blacked!
A larger cast of snowbunnies.
Who are the blondes?
Ditto, someone who could do group sex like Dupli-kate.
I wouldn’t mind a new Gen 13 comic that combines the roster of Gen 14 with Gen 13
I think a larger cast set in the death valley complex as they piece it all together and realize they're held hostage by a shadowy government it just the way to go.
I'd like something that continues the macro story from September Song and 21 Down, incorporating Worldstorm and World's End. And I miss GenActive.
new52 killed
Wow I vaguely remember this comic now and unless this thread came up the one of the rare times I cone to Cinemaphile I doubt I’d remember it for the rest of my life. Maybe I should find a collectors’ prints and relive the discovery from my teens.
Grunge wasn't grunge but he was grunge because by 1994 grunge had been invaded by meathead jocks who didn't get it but copped grunge because it was the popular thing to do. Nirvana's song In Bloom is about this phenomenon and that song came out in '91. So by '94 there was a good chance someone calling themselves grunge wasn't really grunge. That's how in touch the creators of Gen13 were with popular culture at the time, that they were able to make this nuanced joke that apparently flies over the heads of anyone born in '93 or later because they didn't get the memo.
Honestly, it's just one of those "you had to be there" situations. If you were 1 year old or not even born when Gen13 came out, you just aren't going to really get it because it's about a moment in time that you weren't really a part of. While you were shitting your diapers or just a little swimmer in your daddy's nutsack or whatever, sorry but Gen13 ain't for you and the only enjoyment you'd get out of it is spanking off to the tiddie art. But if you were a teen at the time and had a poster of Fairchild between your poster of Pamela Anderson and Jenny McCarthy up on your bedroom wall almost three decades ago, then maybe you got it because the comic was for you.
It's not that you had to be there, it's more like the writers of Gen13 were never actually there and were just out of touch.
Jim Lee and Brandon Choi were just three years older than Kurt Cobain, they weren't grandpas.
You don't have to be old to be not with it, the point is that they took the word grung literal instead of checking what it meant.
Yeah, I don't buy that people who were in the same age group as the people making grunge music (Lee, Choi, Eddie Vedder, and Chris Cornell were all born in 1964) found it completely unfathomable.
It's more likely that then Grunge being a meta-commentary on the grunge subculture.
Not everyone in the 90s was listening to Grunge and it's just more likely these guy just knew it teenage buzzword.
Grunge was a marketing buzzword created by middle aged men. Kurt Cobain called himself a punk rocker on his income tax forms.
Yep. It's really unlikely they'd have no clue what grunge was by 1994. Grunge by that point was mainstream.
They clearly didn't though because Grunge didn't reflect anything about Grunge music.
>Cobain loathed the word "grunge"[3] and despised the new scene that was developing, feeling that record companies were signing old "wiener-rock" bands who were pretending to be grunge and claiming to be from Seattle.[20]
>Some bands associated with the genre, such as Soundgarden, Pearl Jam and Alice in Chains, have not been receptive to the label, preferring instead to be referred to as "rock and roll" bands.[21][22][23] Ben Shepherd from Soundgarden stated that he "hates the word" grunge and hates "being associated with it."[24] Seattle musician Jeff Stetson states that when he visited Seattle in the late 1980s and early 1990s as a touring musician, the local musicians did not refer to themselves as "grunge" performers or their style as "grunge" and they were not flattered that their music was being called "grunge".
It's appropriate for this kid to call himself grunge because nobody from within the music scene even liked the label that had been assigned to them, which was also on-brand.
There is zero reason to believe Grunge was named as some type of meta commentary on the seattle music scene and was just named Grunge because the writers knew it was popular with teenagers.
Which all comes back to the fact that you guy want to gatekeep Gen13 as for 90s teenage boys only.
Either option works. There's no gatekeeping here, just someone being wrong when they say it was an inappropriate name for him to have.
He's gatekeeping the title "grunge" when all the "grunge" bands despised the title, and ironically calling other people "out of touch" while doing so.
Ultimately it's just a pointless complaint that Grunge "isn't grunge."
'Grunge' was just an MTV marketing gimmick. A generation of morons got played.
This about how you guys have to be dragged kicking and screaming to discuss the comic and not just whine about how 90s cheesecake comics are dead. You guys still actually cannot discuss the comics, you're doing everything in your power to talk about the comic.
I literally demonstrated how in-touch with what was going on at the time in the post you just replied to.
>Grunge wasn't grunge but he was grunge because by 1994 grunge had been invaded by meathead jocks who didn't get it but copped grunge because it was the popular thing to do. Nirvana's song In Bloom is about this phenomenon and that song came out in '91. So by '94 there was a good chance someone calling themselves grunge wasn't really grunge. That's how in touch the creators of Gen13 were with popular culture at the time, that they were able to make this nuanced joke that apparently flies over the heads of anyone born in '93 or later because they didn't get the memo.
They understood what was going on with grunge and created a character that was meta-commentary on the then-current state of the grunge scene.
If you don't like Gen13 that's fine but at least levy valid complaints with actual substance behind them.
This. They weren't old men. They weren't even middle aged. That was a part of the appeal of Image comics, that it was a group of then-young, talented comic artists. These were the cool kids of the comic scene.
As a parallel, a similar situation was unfolding in the video game industry at the time with John Romero and id Software. They were the cool kids making cool games that were edgy and doing it independent of all the big industry names at the time. They were considered gaming "rockstars" up until Daikatana failed to make people its "bitch" and by that point it was the 2000's.
>I literally demonstrated how in-touch with what was going on at the time
You haven't demonstrated anything of the sort.
>Grunge wasn't grunge but he was grunge because by 1994 grunge had been invaded by meathead jocks who didn't get it but copped grunge because it was the popular thing to do. Nirvana's song In Bloom is about this phenomenon and that song came out in '91. So by '94 there was a good chance someone calling themselves grunge wasn't really grunge. That's how in touch the creators of Gen13 were with popular culture at the time, that they were able to make this nuanced joke that apparently flies over the heads of anyone born in '93 or later because they didn't get the memo.
>They understood what was going on with grunge and created a character that was meta-commentary on the then-current state of the grunge scene.
No they weren't, they just didn't know what grunge music was.
All you're saying is "nuh-uh" with nothing to substantiate your claim. What's even the point of posting like this when you have nothing of value to add to the conversation? It's not even trolling. You may as well just post random words at this point.
>All you're saying is "nuh-uh" with nothing to substantiate your claim
There's even less substance to your claim that Grunge is actually a brilliant meta-commentary on the grunge subculture.
>What's even the point of posting like this when you have nothing of value to add to the conversation?
So I can get to talk about Gen13 the way I want to.
>There's even less substance to your claim that Grunge is actually a brilliant meta-commentary on the grunge subculture.
Kurt Cobain literally wrote a song about this phenomenon of poser jocks jumping on the grunge bandwagon. In Bloom. Gen13's Grunge is that character.
The way you want to talk is just saying "nuh-uh" with nothing to back what you have to say. Meanwhile I'm constructing an argument and providing evidence to back it, quoting songs written at the time to prove guys like Grunge existed (minus the powers).
Really, at this point, I have nothing more to say to you because again, you have nothing of substance to say. So unless you start actually engaging in the discussion in a meaningful way, I'm going to just stop replying. And I suspect that's really what you're after, (You)'s. Well here dog, have one more on me.
I guess we can finally talk about Gen13 without some dude just trying to make this about kids these days.
Because Gen13 was popular back in the day but it's aged poorly because it was written poorly, there was no single vision behind these 5 teens who were on the run from I/O.
Shut up. If you don't like it, don't talk about it. Especially if you're just going to argue with someone until they get tired of you.
your thread has made me curious about it and now I will read it. In this way at least 1 new person will be thinking about gen 13. Congratulations anon.
Also J. Scott Campbell is, was, and always will be a shitty artist. Maybe a decent character designer (at least with girls) but as an actual artist... no.
Any scans from the Adam Warren spin-off?
that one cover drawn by adam warren lives rent free in my mind since I saw it in a kiosc as a kid
you know the one
Warren is actually the worst Gen13 run, but he appeals to casuals who don't want to think about lore and character development. His run swiftly undid any changes to the status quo and he made sure his stories only ever had the appearance of change, but were completely filler.
Now that's the one where they just nuked at the end right?
Yeah
Now I have a pretty scattershot collection of Gen13 and it's terrible for getting the actual story but I think great for gauging the quality of each writer's run and I rank them as.
>Branddon Choi as the writer who had the actual story of Gen13 in his head.
>Lobdell doing monster of the week stories with more teen drama
>Arcudi being the writer after Choi most focused on the story
>Claremont cranking one out
>Simone's fanfiction
That's a fairly accurate rundown, yes.
Despite myself I think Lobdell wrote some of the more enjoyable Rainmaker behavior.
look Fairchild gets my dick hard like anyone else but the actual comic isn't actually all that great, especially when stacked up against other titans of the 90s
Why are zoomers so upset that Gen13 features hot babes?
Zoomers do not even know Gen13 ever existed which is a fault of Gen13's own making.
And yet they're in this thread pissing shit over some a couple boobs. Weird for an entire generation hopelessly addicted to pornography.
I've only seen people talk about the overall lack of quality writing the series had.
You should try reading the thread then.
Ok so I did ehat you said and again I'm noy seeing anyone showing any sex negative attitudes in their criticism.
Now me personally, I think pandering to the lowest common denominator does hurt the ability for readers to immerse themselves and renders the characters and plot kinda half-baked.
But that's only a problem with Warren's run, that's when it becomes too self-indulgent.
>even though that problem is already showing up in Lobdell's run too
It's a compliment to Gen13's relatability that I demand more then just the cheesecake
>I'm posting this page because of the cheesecake but I also want more from this villain in a substantive meaning too.
Why does sex scare you, zoomer? You love pornography.
Actually my biggest compliment is how prudish Gen13 actually is, like I'm supposed to believe the tall white guy with abs isn't the most desirable guy on the team? But Adam Warren and Jim Lee can't really cope with that.
I'm talking about my sexual attraction to the white guy anon.
This issue was great.
>damn Burnout you're so fricking dreamy
>oh frick why is everyone now speaking not!english?
>Bliss you're evil but also too fricking cute
When comics weren't woke shit and were FUN to read.
Why can't you discuss the comic?
People only liked J Scott Campbells art
Otherwise who cares? Grunge and Caitlin were okay though
Thus thread just keeps giving.
We really, really need a population-culling event to thin out the ranks of gen z. It's like an asylum with them in here.