>Person points out minor plot hole/joke about LotR
>Ermm achlmachually if you read Tolkein's 58th letter to Sir Peepee of Poopoo he clearly explains that...
Shut up. Shut. Up. No one thinks you're smart.
Why are LotR fans so insufferable?
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Are you gay?
Only on Tuesdays
Post 3 examples or you're a troonygay.
Why didn't they just fly with the eagles?
Why do people assume Aragorn is king when he's just some hobo?
Where are the elves? Why aren't they helping in Minas Tirith? Are they just lazing about in their forests?
You have youtuber brain.
> Eagles.
You don't need to read the simarillion to understand why the eagles are not permitted to aid directly except against Saruman, who was in breach of the ban.
> Aragorn.
No one assumes he's king. They have to be told. You pulled this one out of your ass.
> Elves.
They're leaving middle earth. You would know this if you watched the movie.
>They're leaving middle earth. You would know this if you watched the movie.
I know they're leaving middle earth, but why can't they just help gondor in the meantime? It's just cowardly.
He's the guy from the OP.
Because humans are dirty, smelly creatures and elves are the Ubermensch. Jesus anon did you even read the books. Next you'll tell me the orcs are black people or something.
>Ubermensch
>runs away
Wow so superior
>Next you'll tell me the orcs are black people or something.
I'm glad the Haradrim showed up by the end, because I was beginning to think orcs were a stand-in for black people. Still making the Haradrim all fight on the side of Sauron reeks of white supremacist colonial attitudes.
Tolkien was a Brit in the post war period prior to the 80s. It's practically impossible to be such and not have those attitudes.
The elves are basically benevolent superhumans who think of ordinary men as idiot savants at best.
>Still making the Haradrim all fight on the side of Sauron reeks of white supremacist colonial attitudes.
Frankly your ilks incessant inserting of current day urban politics in all things reeks more of that.
There were no white supremacists or colonialists in the 50's?
They literally don’t give a shit. The few elves who do help barely care and really only want revenge against sauron for fricking up their plans at establishing elven kingdoms.
Did you forget the part where they did help Gondor and the Gondorian King Isildur fricked it all up by refusing to destroy thte one ring?
The elves dont help because they dont see the point. They are leaving and man has already wasted their help omce before.
That has nothing to do with shit. Galadriel destroyed Dol Guldur when Sauron fell. They were fighting their own war, they were few, and they were overwhelmed. They knew that the rings corrupted everything it touched, the mightier were even more weaker. That's why Boromir became so fricking obsessed with the ring, why dwarves became israelites, and why Isildur kept the ring, and why Gandalf explicitely stated that him taking the ring would only make things worse.
Galadriel, Glorfindel or any of these busters could do exactly what frodo did in half the time, they didn't because they KNEW it would just turn them into a fricking nazgul.
Yes it does anon. Yes, Lothlorian and Mirkwood were fighting Dul Gurdur but Rivendell and the Grey Havens were not under attack.
Cowardly maybe, but they're literally immortal beings who are going to a place where they can wait out the heat death of the universe and it'll be reset without any evil in it. Whether sauron wins or not doesn't matter, the universe will eventually end and be reset in a better form.
If you had to risk dying to help someone, or go be safe and happy for all eternity until the universe resets then why bother helping the person who would only live for a few more decades at most after you help them and won't be part of the new universe at all?
>Why didn't they just fly with the eagles?
only atheists ask this question
the eagles are a form of Divine intervention, and asking why the eagles didn't just take care of the whole thing to begin with is like asking why God doesn't just do everything for us, it misses the entire point of existence
But god doesn't exist IRL so your comparison is complete bullshit.
>fantasy story contains theological metaphor
>"but god isn't real so that's fricking stupid"
I swear atheists are the biggest morons on earth
Lmao all these brainlets just blindly accepting what was written and not even bothering to think about it for 5 minutes and realize it is full of holes. The eagles should have worked, they were fast enough and could have been stealthy about it.
Also who is this Tom Bombadil you guys keep referring to?
Good bait until the Tom Bombadil part.
I ran out of ideas
I don't think it's that good of a strategy.
All seeing eye would have spotted them from a long way off, it's hard to fly stealthily and sauron can definitely see the ring in the open. Once spotted the Nazgul would have intercepted.
Stealth is definitely better.
You are one special gorilla Black person.
Just read Tolkein's 58th letter to Sir Peepee of Poopoo moron
>Why didn't they just fly with the eagles?
The quest could only be completed with secrecy, and with Sauron never even entertaining the thought someone would want to destroy the ring instead of keeping it. Sauron seeing a giant eagle carrying a ring and divebombing straight towards the Mordor volcano would give the game away, Sauron would fortify the volcano entrances and it's game over.
Actually let me answer your boring question with a valid one of my own - would you have enjoyed seeing the movies if that's how the story went? If the eagles just took the ring and tossed it into lava? Would you ever have a desire to read a book if the story was so easily concluded?
>Sauron seeing a giant eagle carrying a ring and divebombing straight towards the Mordor volcano would give the game away
And what is he going to do? Look at it really hard?
In the book sauron isn’t an eye he has an actual body. Also he usually has guards at the mountain but he thought Aragorn was invading Mordor with the ring so he panicked and threw everything he had at him.
>ACKshually in the book...
way to prove OP, moron
It’s not my fault the movie fricked everything up. It should have never been made
Illiteracy detected
>no argument
Concession accepted
>And what is he going to do? Look at it really hard?
Order the Nazgul to knock anything that approaches Mordor out of the sky. Then seal up all entrances into Mt. Doom.
Congratulations the world is doomed and satan won because you went "uhh ACKSHUALLY WHY DIDN'T THEY JUST PUT THE DICKY IN THE STINKYY"
nazguls get effortlessly btfo by the eagles in the end
Fell beasts are killed p easily by anyone with a sword
Their leader the witch king is dead at that point, and the eagles take the nazguls by surprise.
You would've thought sealing the entrances to the room that contains the one thing that can kill him would be priority number one.
Hell, all Sauron needed was ONE guard outside of the doorway Frodo, Sam, and Gollum entered through.
>Why didn't they just fly with the eagles?
Here's the explanation, from the man himself
>Why didn't they just fly with the eagles?
You can't fly to places you haven't been to before
>Why didn't they just fly with the eagles?
the real ring they had to destroy was the ego within themselves
>Why do people assume Aragorn is king when he's just some hobo?
royal aura
>Where are the elves? Why aren't they helping in Minas Tirith? Are they just lazing about in their forests?
where were you?
Elves are homosexuals
Elves are based as frick, they don’t help because men are fricking stupid Black folk who don’t deserve it.
And also there's only a handful of them left by the end of the Third Age. Reasonably you're looking at basically just 4 remaining populations of any number - Lorien, Felegoth (thranduil's hall in mirkwood), Imladris, and centered around the Grey Havens in Lindon. That's it.
They also literally couldn’t help. The only elves who manage to help either have rings of power or magical artifacts given to them by someone with a ring of power. If you read LOTR carefully you’ll notice that Legolas doesn’t actually do that much until he gets the bow of Galadriel, and the only thing he does that really effects the plot is shooting a flying Nazgûl with it. Tolkien himself says Legolas accomplishes the least of anyone in the fellowship and it’s because the time of his race is over. The elves were already fading and were extremely limited in how much they could affect the mortal world
Men are homosexuals too
>Why didn't they just fly the eagles?
Gwyhere the wind lord is sapient and decides when and how he participates in the events of the world. He's buddies with Gandalf and almost exclusively helps him. It's in the books - not esoteric at all.
>Why do people assume Aragorn is king when he's just some hobo?
He holds the shards of Narcil literally from the beginning and has a verifiable blood connection to Numenor. Again, bookgay stuff but still, if not more, legitimate.
>Where are the elves? Why aren't they helping in Minas Tirith? Are they just lazing about in their forests?
They get attacked on their own borders. Aldo they still hold two of the three elven rings and anything tied to them gets destroyed or decays when the One is destroyed. If they use their power to help it'll only make things worse.
t. habitual bookgay and moviegay
The eagles are helping Gandalf out throughout the entire story, we're just not told much about it explicitly because the story isn't about them. They're not some supernatural force that sits in judgement of the world.
Also you're wrong about the elven rings. Gandalf carries one, remember? It's rather the case that all the rings lose their power when the one is destroyed and it was the power of the rings that was sustaining the magic in lothlorien and rivendell. The reason they're not helping out is because they've decided the time of men has come and they're going to leave middle earth. They're just not in any rush because what they've built in middle earth is really nice and they're not sure where they're going is better.
Gandalf does carry one but he pretty much only uses it to create light, campfires and kill the balrog. I imagine it's hard to corrupt things either temporary or tied to a greater evil.
You're totally right about the attitude of the elves though. Preservation of what little is left in anticipation of fricking off to disneyland.
Gandalf is using the ring the whole time. Its actual power is to kindle hearts with courage and vigor. If you read the book carefully you’ll notice that Gandalf doesn’t have to try very hard to get characters like theoden to enthusiastically fall in line with his plans and even suit up for battle, even though a few minutes earlier theoden hated Gandalf and was a crippled old man who could barely walk.
Pretty sure the bigger reason why the elves can't help is just that Sauron is attacking on all fronts, hence them not sending shit. Gondor could only barely muster an army at minas tirith, Rohan winning the battle at helm's deep and theoden being freed from Saruman and Grima's influence are the only reason why these morons sent anything. Also, the elves weren't numerous. Most of them already left, and they don't have a lot of kids either.
Add to that the fact that elves always had the option of travelling to valinor all along. The only reason why they didn't is because they would rather be free from the Valar, but they could always just go "frick that shit" and gtfo. If anything, Sauron was probably counting on that.
i'll just answer the non obvious one, aka the eagles
As boromir said, one does simply not walk into the fricking mordor. Especially when you get the ring. Gandalf noticed that hobbits seem to be moronic enough that the ring can't influence them as much as powerful people. Were Gandalf to wear the fricking ring, he'd just become Sauron the Second. The Eagles being mighty probably would end up the same way.
Not only that, but the only reason why Sauron wasn't actively fricking Frodo up was because it took the entire ARMIES of man to redirect his attention. The pelennor fields -everything was them buying time for Frodo to finish the job. A fricking Eagle flying with the ring would be capped by the Nazguls on sight.
Elves absolutely btfo lesser species like orcs and men. They take on impossible odds time and time again in the silmarilion and absolutely blow their opponents out of the water. They stay out of the fighting because they're fading and it's not worth risking eternity in Valinor for a fight that isn't theirs. Also Saurons troops hadn't found neither lothlorien nor rivendell, although they were roaming their borders.
the movie spells it out in the opening scene and agent smith's flashback, the elves fought and died alongside man to the destroy evil once and for all but the strength of man failed and kept the ring
fast forward to the fellowship of the ring, the blood of Numenor is all but spent, its pride and dignity forgotten, and the elves lost faith in man long ago
The movies are fanfiction but yeah, elves neither trust nor care for men in the third age.
Look at it from Elrond's perspective, too. This homie just watched Gil-Galad, his king whom he was herald to, get killed over this shit. Now this fricker is keeping it - and to make matters worse HE'S OF HIS TWIN BROTHER'S BLOODLINE.
But for all they knew, Frodo was nowhere near Mordor. The smart thing to do would've been to start a slow battle of attrition, rather than just directly charge with your whole forces all at once and hope Sauron doesn't kill you hnstantly.
you don't have to wear the ring moron just keep it on your neck. the eagles can't even wear it because they don't have fricking fingers. I don't remember but I think at some point gandalf actually carried the ring to check if it's real or something and nothing happened
>the eagles
Plenty of anons have pointed out you're moronic, but even morons generally notice that Nazgul's flying wyvern things
In my opinion, the will of Sauron and his evil aura would have prevented the eagles from entering his airspace
>eagles
here is J R R Tolkien himself LITERALLY explaining it:
Why doesn't the ring do all that bad crap in the og Hobbit?
Why doesn't Tom Bombadil help out?
Why does Iru allow any of this bs?
>Ring takes a long time to corrupt small brain hobbits, Sauron was still rebuilding strength
>He canonically does not care about anything
>He already had his plan in place or did you forget the good guys won
Sorry your RoP flopped
> The hobbit.
What, you mean when the dragon was the big bad?
> Tom bombadil.
Maiar forbidden by Iluvatar from interceding due to the restrictions of the song of creation.
> Iluvatar
Because Morgoth is a b***h boy who needed a slap. Unironically in my own mind Morgoth was right about everything but I'm an angsty c**t.
Nobody knows if Tom is a maiar.
It's right there in the song, moron
>Ground Control to Maia Tom
> Nobody knows.
This is true. Tolkien deliberately left his origins vague stating that even in mythology and folklore some things just happen to be. He at least merits enough attention from gandalf to deserve a long talking to at the end of the war of the ring.
I don't see the problem? If Tolkien writes something in the 50th letter to Sir Peepee of Poopoo, then it's canon. Are you suggesting that Tolkien's 58th letter to Sir Peepee of Poopoo was a forgery?
If you need 90 years of revisions and multiple generations of your family having to explain and correct every tiny little flaw in your works, then kinda yeah.
Tolkien died in 1973 anon. I get that's a long time for your zoom zoom brain but culturally that's not a long time ago.
Mostly because modern culture is stagnant as shit since the 80s but still.
Yes, he did! Then his son kept revising his works!
I'll point out at this moment that the core text of lord of the rings is largely unaltered. Go ahead and point out the explicit corrections supervised by Christopher tolkien for me.
Brown hands typed this post
Brown dicks frick ya ma
You're moronic beyond belief
The people who point out plot holes typically only do it in the movie. Hackson changed a lot of things to make an action adventure out of Tolkiens epic fantasy. Then there are those that like to voice their opinions as faults with the story, like when people say the elves should help out more. These people rarely point out actual flaws and most of these opinions can be dismissed after reading the silmarilion.
>Shut up. Shut. Up. No one thinks you're smart.
Thats what even I as a non-LOTR fan feel like whenever someone like (you) points out a minor plothole/joke
Why does reading make you seethe, do you have ADHD?
>Autist vomits tired npc opinion yet again which has been debunked a thousand times and expects everyone in the thread to bow at their feet exclaiming how smart and amazing they are
>spergs out when told how moronic they are for continuing to parrot the same old disproven bullshit
>Mild criticism of LotR is NPC behaviour.
Do you also happen to like indie films like Pulp Fiction?
See this is something I don't get. We have here a thread full of anons, yes? And all these anons have seen the movies. Then why do some anons have these braindead takes over plotholes that would not exist if they even thought about it for 5 minutes? The writers have obviously made their characters stupid for the sake of artificially adding drama.
Lotr fans are insufferable because they treat some shitty fantasy story as written history
>he doesn’t know
I know about the Tolkien as translator conceit and that the lotr world is supposed to be just the ancient past of ours
This map is pretty good in general, but Spain is clearly just blatantly made up. They didn't even give it a corresponding label
Don’t you think it’s a bit odd that barad-dur is literally on the back of the dollar bill?
Because there's actual answers to the "plot holes" and you think you're the one being smart for calling them "plot holes".
>gollum was a hobbit
>AND THEN THE RING CAME TO A MOST UNLIKELY CREATURE
>another hobbit
>minor plot hole/joke about LotR
?
>point out LE HECKIN CINEMASINS DINGDING WAHOO P L O T H O L E that is readily explained by actually knowing how to read
Shut up. Shut. Up. No one thinks you're smart.
I so fricking hate the "Why didn't eagles fly to Mordor" gays. Brainlets parroting other brainlets.
Hurr durr why didn't allies simply fly to Berlin and kill Hitler. Why didn't humans simply fly and blew up the Skynet. Why didn't Ripley simply kill xenomorph. Muh plotholes!
Gatekeeping is necessary. Honchos of the industry and even the Tolkien family need to constantly be reminded of their inadequacy. They need to know they don´t count with automatic support and that every venture could potentially result in failure. It´s the only way to prevent LOTR from becoming just as shit as capeshit or SW... or at least delay the inevitable moment that happens.
If normies are not thought their place as inferior beings and things like RoPe get support who knows what could happen.
I can't wait until Lord of the Rings becomes public domain so that its legacy can be ruined by absolute dog shit.
But anon think of all of the LOTR themed horror movies that could be made. WHat about a horror movie about GOllum? Or a romcom centered around Sauron and Galadriel? Or an origing story for the hobbits? OR NO wait, a comedy series about angband hahhahaha. A running joke will be Sauron's unrequited gay crush on Morgoth. JUST THINK OF THE POSSIBLITIES OF A LOTR CINEMATIC UNIVERSE!
I want all this stuff so that LOTR fans cope seethe and piss. I want a New Rings of Power every year.
A star wars fan who wants his suffering inflicted on every other fandom I assume?
you hating better things isn't going to improve RoP OP
>Why are LotR fans so insufferable?
they aren't. the behavior you cited doesn't happen.
lord of the rings is for children there is nothing mature about goblin men and wizard elfs fighting with men in spandex tights and dresses
>b-but the mystical sword of flimblewobble is a actually a clever allegory on western soci-
shut up you chimp with a keyboard and at least TRY and kiss a girl
if my son said he wanted to watch lord of the rings past the age of 10 i would send him to the army
Bottom tier b8, m800. I r8 it 1/8
>germanic mythology is for babies
israelite detected
>be me
>9yo
>my birthday is coming up
>ask my dad in the car for an Aragorn action figure with articulating arms and Anduril replica
>his brow furrows and I hear him mumble something about "fimblewonble"
>confusion.png
>hopefully he heard me and he'll buy it
>fast forward to my birthday
>wake up
>walk out into the living room
>no one is home, weird.
>see on the table only the action figure and a green camo shirt
>hell yeah, he got it
>run over to play with my cool new toy
>sirens start going off
>the skylight window shatters as men in uniforms rappel into the room
>they grab me, yanking the toy from my tiny hands
>dad jumps out from inside a closet
>yells "no son of mine will wear tights and dresses"
>before I can respond a sack is pulled over my head and I'm thrown in the back of a transport truck
>next thing I know I'm malnourished in the desert holding a gun
>bullets flying everywhere
>a strange man is yelling at me calling me a sissy homosexual that plays with dolls
>an artillery shell hits nearby severing both my legs
>I'm in tears bleeding out into the sand wondering how this all happened
>mfw I just wanted to be a cool guy with a sword
How dare you disrespect Sir Peepee of Poopoo
have a nice day homosexual
You're all homosexuals. Tolkien expressly acknowledged the eagles being a plothole.
You are acting exactly like op said. Trying to intellectualise stuff you life for self aggrandisement. It's just a kid's novel you homosexuals.
I always avoid LOTR and Star Trek threads. They are without a fault the least interesting ones.
Black person, nerding out about Tolkien lore is literally why people usually make these threads, calm the frick down.
>children's fantasy book has plotholes
NOOOOOOOOOOO SAVE ME GRRRRRRRRM
WHERE WAS GONDOR WHEN THE WESTFOLD FELL?
is there any plothole from the movies that isn't explained in the three books?
the letters are just extra stuff that don't matter
Probably not but there are plenty of discrepancies.
bump
Kys stupid homosexual
I definitely don't think you're smart.
This is just high fantasy fan in general, none of them were sane
why is there no religion in lotr? god objectively exists in this universe, but there are no churches, altars or priests of any sorts
>god objectively exists in this universe
You answered your own question.
Angels are pieces of shit on Middle Earth. You'll be just sitting there enjoying life and then this old grey frick will come up and force you to trek halfway across the fricking world for some dwarf's bullshit smash and grab. Never pray to those bastards
Tolkien specifically says doing so explicitly would have hurt the story.
>For reasons which I will not elaborate, that seems to me fatal. Myth and fairy-story must, as all art, reflect and contain in solution elements of moral and religious truth (or error), but not explicit, not in the known form of the primary "real" world. That is why I have not put in, or have cut out, practically all references to anything like 'religion', to cults or practices, in the imaginary world. For the religious element is absorbed into the story and the symbolism
In short Tolkien trusted thenintelligence of his readers
>its a plot hole because im too moronic to understand it
let me guess you watched a video essay
the one ring is the worst mcguffin possible. sauron unironically would be better off without it. in fact it gives more benefits to literally anyone but sauron. absolutely moronic shit.
this.
Also the constant
>muh why is based tom bombadil not in the moobies???
BECAUSE HES A FRICKING BORING MARTY SUE. his chapter doesn't progress the story, feels like a hiccup and is a SNOREFEST. Protip: Tolkien actually wasn't a very good author.
Even if he was interesting, it would STILL have been a bad idea. You can't spend an hour establishing a mood of "doom and gloom" and then derail it for a 20 minute acid trip with musical numbers. Puts you right back to square one and leaves your viewers thinking "wtf?"
Lotr is awful capeshit
why does smeagol sound like gollum. I always assumed the ring changed his voice. Nope he always sounded like a creepy pedophile. Return of the king was a mistake.
Too much longbottom leaf
because they're voiced by the same person
>be wrong
>get told why
>seethe
this image is you
That's a picture of a wojak silly
>Shut up. Shut. Up. No one thinks you're smart.
You're the one finding plot holes and doing the RLM impression. have a nice day, nerd.
no matter how many excuses you make up, the point still stands - tolkien simply didn't think of it. he made gimly smash the ring to explain to a reader that it's indestructible. but nobody on the council even tries to mention the eagles, even to be turned down
it's a plot hole. deal with it.
>he dare not reply to anyone because he's been BTFO so many times
pitiful
was I supposed to mass reply the whole thread so you could complain about this instead you coping moron?
gandalf could have teleported fordo into the lava but he didnt and let countless people die
Genuine question: what would have happened if anyone working for sauron got the ring?
If any of sarumans forces got it then sauron wouldn't have won bc saruman would have become the big bad.
If a random orc working for sauron got the ring then what? He just biffs it into the big eye and poof sauron respawns with full gear?
Would they put the ring on a set of armor and the ghost of sauron would be able to possess the armor?
The ring was really close to saurons base, so it's not that he gets stronger the closer the ring is, what was he specifically going to do when one of his minions gets the ring, was there a specific special altar that they put it on to make sauron manifest physically again?
>Genuine question: what would have happened if anyone working for sauron got the ring?
They likely would've tried to keep the ring for themselves and make a power play for it, which Sauron would stamp down and eventually reclaim the ring. That is kind of what Saruman intended to do.
in the books sauron is just a dude chilling at the top of the tower. the whole "eye of sauron" thing is just him peering out a window from time to time, so as far as giving him the ring they could literally just walk up the stairs and give it to him. also the ringwraiths would be the one to do it.
>just biffs it into the big eye and poof sauron respawns with full gear?
kek
>Shut up. Shut. Up. No one thinks you're smart.