Sam's speech was preachy, but the points he made were valid, and Cinemaphile goes out of its way to misrepresent them just because a black guy said it. Steve raised the same points in Age of Ultron and nobody complained about it then.
Sam's speech was preachy, but the points he made were valid, and?
i agree, we should treat each other better. this thread is done. everyone go home.
His points were retarded and so are you.
You gotta stop calling them terrorists.
>bombs civilians for political message == terrorist
ok sam
They were terrorists.
I genuinely don’t know what the fuck happened to him, did he have a stroke? Because if he’s that retarded that he just lets a bunch of super powered millennials that start destroying shit is okay because they have a shitty sob story them he shouldn’t have been given the shield to begin with. Maybe the dementia was getting to Steve.
Maybe YOU PEOPLE need to do better, ever think of that Sam?
I dunno man they call themselves terrorists.
yeah and nazis claimed they were socialists. they weren't. the chinese communist party calls itself communist, but they're capitalists.
are you confused the phrase "buffalo wings"? what about "spanish moss" or "horseradish"? yellow lights at traffic stops are actually orange/amber
>nazis claimed they were socialists
They were. They believed in a socialism without the marxist influence.
>the chinese communist party calls itself communist, but they're capitalists
They are still ideologically communists, they just understood that capitalism or private investment from companies is necessary for an strong economy/economical growth. They also still lean left, it's just that they lean more to the traditional eft than the progressive one.
Are you actually seething over people calling the members of a radical group that perpetrates violent acts against civils terrorists?
Nice quads
Common commie L.
It would’ve worked if the flagsmashers were actually sympathetic and not psychopathic terrorists.
Who the fuck would actually be on the Flagsmasher's side? Everyone should have friends and loved ones who disappeared.
that's not what happened, but this is funny how this pinpoints exactly where you get your news from lol
Like yours news from reddit is any better
>cradles the corpse of an insane mass-murdering terrorist in his arms and descends from the heavens holding her body like he's the fucking Pieta before proceeding to angrily excuse her actions to the world leaders she just tried to kill
Just what exactly did Sam really mean by this?
Sam is an empty shell by this point
It's what the writers meant by his actions, and that's pretty damn easy to guess
The writers of Falcon and the Winter Soldier don't realize this, but they wrote Sam as a racist. I don't mean that as an insult either, it's something they should actually explore with the character.
Sam in this series is someone DEEPLY invested in the black community, to the point he casually disrespects, devalues, and "others" everyone who isn't one of his own race. He arbitrarily decides to sympathize with and give the kiddie gloves to dealing with an unrepentant mass murderer whose only goal was slaughtering potentially billions of people in pursue of an ill-defined and hazy goal. And at the same time, he immediately dismisses John Walker as a monster, a stooge and a villain despite his initially being well-intentioned (though still a stooge.)
The writers should have played into this, if they'd actually been smart enough to notice it, and make this his focus as a new Captain America. He is someone who, unlike Steve, isn't able to see past race and look beyond his prejudice. Even if he doesn't realize it, he is a bigot and this colors and lessens his actions as Captain America, and to progress in the role he needs to come to terms with that, and decide how he can progress past his bias, or if he even wants to if it means giving up what he feels like is a vital connection to his racial identity.
>to the point he casually disrespects, devalues, and "others" everyone who isn't one of his own race.
Name one instance other than Walker, whose grievances weren't racially based at all.
Literally Bucky. He is as resentful, judgmental, and exclusionary of Bucky as he accuses Bucky of ever being to him throughout the series, you can watch in the way that Sam instinctively reacts negatively to Bucky interacting with Sam's family. He doesn't want someone from the "outside" there with his people, and it takes moments of significant character growth for him to accept Bucky being welcome into that community.
It's a character trait you notice not by a single action, but by repeated patterns across the series. Sam looks for the good in, makes excuses for, and reaches out to connect with black people. He rejects, morally judges, and keeps white people at arms' length, and it's a significant hurdle for him to even accept Bucky as a close friend to the point it's a character arc.
He's not a Saturday morning cartoon malicious racist like the LARPers marching around waving Nazi flags in Florida. He's the casual everyday racist, who doesn't even think about why he gets angrier around people with a different color of skin, or why he's a little more generous with people that look like himself.
>Sam instinctively reacts negatively to Bucky interacting with Sam's family
That was banter, anon. And it was because Bucky was putting the moves on his sister.
You're a fucking moron and no one should take this obvious bait.
>The writers should have played into this, if they'd actually been smart enough to notice it,
Thats the problem, the writers are the actual racists. They dont notice it because they believe in everything he says and think he's justified in saying it.
>Sam in this series is someone DEEPLY invested in the black community, to the point he casually disrespects, devalues, and "others" everyone who isn't one of his own race. He arbitrarily decides to sympathize with and give the kiddie gloves to dealing with an unrepentant mass murderer whose only goal was slaughtering potentially billions of people in pursue of an ill-defined and hazy goal. And at the same time, he immediately dismisses John Walker as a monster, a stooge and a villain despite his initially being well-intentioned (though still a stooge.)
That's black phase 5 characters in general. Everything, EVERYTHING has to be about race. The Wakanda crew are literally a militant isolationist monarchy that somehow considers itself to have the moral high ground against "colonists" even though the first fucking movie was about their traditions backfiring so hard they nearly unleashed vibranium weapons on the world. The whole reason Namor is deemed even halfway sympathetic is because apparently a priest called him a mean name centuries ago and that somehow justifies his goal to genocide the surface-worlders. And even fucking Fury of all people whines about mediocre white men in an attempt to get War Machine on his side, which to Rhodey's credit he immediately shits on by calling Fury himself a mediocre fucker.
Ironically the only exception I can think of is Riri Williams, even though BP2 never explains how she built her suit in a garage with a box of larger than average scraps but no fucking badassium or the very specific and rare mineral Tony's suit is powered by.
Tony's original arc reactor was built out of shit he scavenged from a missile and Vanko built one in his apartment. A basic arc reactor is apparently capable of being created out of materials available to the average person. While handled poorly, Riri's comic origin of abusing her access to materials at MIT was a rather elegant explanation of how she could create something so advanced without proper facilities or supply.
Vanko built a scrap harness that and some lightning whips that...okay it is pretty impressive he could walk off being hit with a car with something that exposed his skin. I guess the operative words here are "while handled poorly" because at no point did I get the impression Riri "abused" her access at all, the way she acted and the way the other kids treated her briefly made her seem like just another student there.
My whole distaste for the concept of Riri aside, she genuinely did not seem like someone trying to go out of her way to one-up Tony in the movie, just a gadgeteer building shit for a hobby who had no idea what a big deal the vibranium detector was.
>at no point did I get the impression Riri "abused" her access at all
She is introduced doing other students' projects for money to finance her workshop. Justifies her having access to fairly expensive stuff without making her an outright thief.
Does it? I'm not good at financials but I don't think it makes logical sense to be able to fund an Iron Man suit by doing other people's homework unless Riri is seriously gouging those poor fuckers. Keep in mind, Tony's original arc reactor was build out of shit he scavenged from a MILITARY STATION while supervised by people under the impression he was building a powerful weapon. Riri is in...America. And unless Marvel America is significantly more lax than I assumed, I'm pretty sure you can't legally buy jet afterburners, bulletproof armour and repulsors on fucking ebay.
Marvel needs to stop trying to make Riri sympathetic and just go all in on her being a second Tony but with tits. Even in comics she fucked over MIT to improve her own tech.
>Gets established as a hero and offered a full post-grad lab as a new student with university funding on anything she might want to create
>Only caveat is that any patents created there are partial uni property
>Spends probably over a million dollars upgrading and repairing her suit with new tech
>Takes everything to an offsite location with passive turret defenses when the university tries to give sponsors and other students access to notes on the tech which wasn't even supposed to be for her suit
disney will never allow the conversation to be about class or capitalism. corporations need identity politics to divide their consumer base in to easily herded factions
No, Steve's saying something similar about people who hadn't done anything worse than "fight the Avengers" yet. Sam's making excuses for terrorists who've killed innocent civilians.
The show's original plot was meant to have been something about governments and the elites hoarding vaccine stockpiles while a pandemic was killing people, and the Flag Smashers were stealing from them to help people, but then Covid happened and they rewrote things, probably re-filmed stuff too, and changed the Flag Smashers to migrant workers temporarily allowed into the West after the Snap and fighting repatriation after the Blip, but it feels like all the scenes of Sam making excuses for them and identifying with them all came from the original plot, and they never thought to rewrite any of it.
Man maybe an AI writer would have been able to adjust that.
I'm just tired of everything being an after school special
That was Miss Marvel.
>autists cant understand nuances and abstracts, immediately assumes racism
Fuck, go back to twitter
this coming from the guy that was rude and repeatedly fucked over steves rightful replacement for no reason at all
>steves rightful replacement
There was nothing rightful about Walker.
>Sam willingly gives the shield over to the US Government and tells them he doesn't want to become a new Captain America for them
>the US Government then gives the shield to a respected, decorated soldier and gives him some super serum
>despite John Walker doing nothing to aggravate either of them or give cause for them to dislike him, Sam and Bucky are mad at him and hate his guts because HOW DARE HE
>Sam and Bucky jailbreak a dangerous criminal mastermind, Walker confronts them about this but is told to fuck off and humiliated by the Wakanda Girl Power bodyguards for no reason
>Walker's best bud gets killed, and in a fit of anger kills the terrorist responsible in public view
>this is somehow incredibly morally wrong despite the fact that both Steve, Bucky, and Sam himself regularly killed people while being superheroes
>Walker is somehow meant to be in the wrong for the entire show when the worst thing he ever does is killing the terrorist in public without thinking of the optics
>Sam willingly gives the shield over to the US Government and tells them he doesn't want to become a new Captain America for them
He donated the shield to a museum explicitly to be serve as a memorial.
>the US Government then gives the shield to a respected, decorated soldier and gives him some super serum
Walker took the serum himself despite knowing it was unstable because he was seething about being a normie.
>despite John Walker doing nothing to aggravate either of them or give cause for them to dislike him, Sam and Bucky are mad at him and hate his guts because HOW DARE HE
They don't want to work with him because they realize he was chosen to be the government stooge Steve always refused to be, and Walker proves himself rather entitled when things don't go his way either.
>Sam and Bucky jailbreak a dangerous criminal mastermind, Walker confronts them about this but is told to fuck off and humiliated by the Wakanda Girl Power bodyguards for no reason
He talked shit and he got hit. Even Bucky did.
>Walker's best bud gets killed, and in a fit of anger kills the terrorist responsible in public view
Hoskins was killed by Morgenthau, not the dude Walker killed.
>this is somehow incredibly morally wrong despite the fact that both Steve, Bucky, and Sam himself regularly killed people while being superheroes
There is a stark difference between killing in self-defense in the heat of the battle and chasing and brutally executing a surrendered enemy in public because your roids are making you irrational.
Sam and Bucky were salty and the show acknowledges this, with Bucky showing Walker respect when he proved himself more than an attack dog. Walkerfags need to stop seeing in black and white and let got of the persecution complex that Walker was supposed to be portrayed as IRREDEEMABLY EVIL when he was just a bullheaded fool who grew as a result of his experiences and proved himself worthy of being his own hero.
>There is a stark difference between killing in self-defense in the heat of the battle and chasing and brutally executing a surrendered enemy in public
no there isn't
>self-defense
Not him but Cap regularly went into said battles, there's nothing defensive about it.
The only difference might be that Cap would have killed someone with one clean sweep instead of the raw bashing Walker needed.
Joining a conflict doesn't preclude the kills resulted from you preserving your own physical integrity from being classified as self-defense.
Project Insight is self defense.
>the US Government then gives the shield to a respected, decorated soldier and gives him some super serum
You might want to watch the show again.
>You might want to watch the show again.
Why would anyone want to watch it more than once?
Being right about minor factoids isn't worth that.
>Steve raised the same points in Age of Ultron and nobody complained about it then.
1 - He did not defend people who burned innocents alive on screen.
2 - He did not defend commie antifa stand ins.
3 - He did not defend them solely based on race like Sam did for the biracial redhead.
4 - He did not use his own race as a Shield against people hating on him for his defense of them.
Those guys were goddamn terrorists.
Quick rundown on this series and why people say Sam sided with terrorists?
>Half of Earth's population vanishes for five years.
>Immigrants from third world shitholes are welcomed into foreign countries to replace the depleted workforce.
>The Avengers bring everyone back.
>The U.N. immediately decides to deport the immigrants back to their shitholes and forces them into shitty internment camps with poor living conditions.
>A group of angry young immigrants led by Karli Morgenthau get their hands on stolen supersoldier serum samples and begin striking back against the U.N.
>They start by stealing medication and supplies, but Karli gets bloodlusted when her mother dies in the camps and begins killing people, alienating her followers.
>Sam tries to reason with her and bring her back from the edge, but she is way toeo far gone.
>After Karli dies trying to kill the U.N. leaders in charge of the mass deportation plan, they praise Sam for dealing with the terrorists.
>Sam makes a big speech about how they were desperate kids and calling them terrorists is reductive and just fosters more conflict.
>He pleads for the U.N. leaders to try to find a better solution rather than the knee-jerk reaction of "SEND THEM BACK."
>Cinemaphile immediately equates this with "CAPTAIN AMERICA SUPPORTS TERRORISM" because they are allergic to nuance.
It's a preachy and overlong speech, but the idea at its core is peak Captain America, and I'm tired of pretending it's not.
"Why doesn't Sam present solutions then?" also isn't the gotcha Cinemaphile seems to think it is when he outright says he doesn't know how complex the whole repatriation thing is, he believes they can find a better solution together and wants the senators to at least try.
Case in point
>also isn't the gotcha Cinemaphile seems to think it is when he outright says he doesn't know how complex the whole repatriation thing is
I think that directly does mean he has no place to comment on it. How does he know that they didn't try to find a better solution that was feasible? He has no idea how it could be done and is passing off the job to someone else instead of trying to find a solution himself.
Because they clearly didn't, they immediately went for a military response without even informing the immigrants first.
The problem is that the writers bit off more than they could chew and invented a social issue too big for a punchy superhero to solve.
The immigration and refuge crises in real life are bad enough, but the MCU's looks to be even worse, of course nobody would have a handle on it.
Sam's speech simply isn't very inspiring. It's the kind of token platitudes you'd expect from the very politicians he's supposed to be lecturing. He sounds naive and sheltered at best and a cynical hypocrite at worst.
>>The U.N. immediately decides to deport the immigrants back to their shitholes and forces them into shitty internment camps with poor living conditions.
The libs and leftists in charge of the UN wouldn't do that. Those fuckers love immigrants.
>"Why doesn't Sam present solutions then?" also isn't the gotcha Cinemaphile seems to think it is
Well he could crank a really big dynamo and provide free energy.
>Cinemaphile immediately equates this with "CAPTAIN AMERICA SUPPORTS TERRORISM" because they are allergic to nuance.
It's always amusing to me that the site that seethes about (justifiably) being called nazis then gets mad at a "you should try and understand the other side instead of just dismissing them as evil" moral.
>gets mad at a "you should try and understand the other side instead of just dismissing them as evil" moral
You never try following that advice, so why should we?
>You never try following that advice, so why should we?
I honestly tried for a while.
How did that go?
Honestly? Not great. I still try give people the benefit of the doubt but it often doesn't take long for some anons to explain their position as nagger fatigue.
>It's a "troon uses words that would end his social life but it's ok cuz morality stops mattering when you're anonymous" episode
Rerun again?
Joke's on you bro I don't have a social life.
Disingenuous moron
Fucking retards like you are why this world is going to shit
You want nuance? The nuance is there are no easy solutions that satisfy anyone ever.
Only children and literal retards believe so.
So instead of choosing the option on the table which is obviously heartless you instead paralyze everyone with indecision and where does that get anyone?
Well now instead of just one group being forced to suffer, everyone gets to suffer. Those who too little to give now have even left.
Resources are stretched thin enough that a crash is now inevitable.
But don't take my word for it. Take the NYC mayor's word for it
Turns out you can only stretch your resources so far.
So you just admitted to not actually being of Cinemaphile and just here spamming for politics reasons? Cool. I get that most people like you are dumb as bricks but this is something else.
Terrorism is evil and cowardly in all cases.
didn't karli want to steal shit from the people who got revived?
She stole from the government, don't recall if she stole from the blipped.
I could fix her.
>t. Sam
>but the idea at its core is peak Captain America
The "idea" of that speech is "I know this issue better than you because of my background so you've got to find a solution because I can't!"
You're an idiot and I'm tired of pretending you're not.
>says he doesn't know how complex the whole repatriation thing is, he believes they can find a better solution together and wants the senators to at least try.
It is hilarious that you don't see the problem here.
>internment camps
Can you cunts go 5 minutes without sneaking lies into the acts of public defecation you think is posting. After people re-appeared in their homes the UN converted historical and government buildings into makeshift apartments and nothing was ever shown that they were trapped there. Other than the organization being vastly hamstrung and incapable of doing it's job (classic UN) the people there were living with what they had while they waited for a decision to be made.
>but the points he made were valid
>hey you guys need to do something else
>ok what do you suggest
>I don't know that's not my job but you can't go with the solution you already chose
Black people didn't like his speech either.
> because a black guy said it
Okay, yeah
Well then let me tell you somethin' pal, you ain't black
>Black people didn't like his speech either
They didn't really like the Netflix Luke Cage show
Why does Cinemaphile always side with the third worlders?
Thirdworlder here
I don't side with thirdworlders and you shouldn't
West are complete brainrotten retards, the solution is just second-world
The fuck do you mean? I’m not siding with the fagsmashers, they don’t even know basic history.
>Cap kills soldiers doing their job
Good
>US Agent kills terrorist after killing a man
Bad
I believe that individual was so I do it and not a danger to anyone when us agent murder the man on American Soldier would be charged for doing that on the battle field after the battle was over and the guy was clearly in custody.
>and not a danger to anyone
Anyone with the super soldier serum doesn't fall into this category.
They managed to build a container for the Hulk I'm pretty sure sealed has that guy covered also building containers for super power people is it as hard as you think it is.
Speak for yourself, him killing that terrorist was based.
Maybe he would have gotten the point across if he wasn't weeping tears for someone who bombed a bunch of people 2 eps ago...
If I were Sam, I would be more angry at Karli for becoming a terrorist than I would be angry at the UN leaders for being incompetents.
Man, all the MCU series except Hawkeye have been shit so far.
The speech's preachiness is what made Sam look like a tone-deaf superhuman who couldn't understand that you don't deliver the "you gotta stop calling them terrorists" lecture to a man who they literally locked in a van and set on fire five minutes ago. They absolutely are terrorists. It's almost like Sam's lines through the show were written by one person, and Karli's actions were written by another, because the shit he says never seems to match the shit she does.
The whole show, he's chasing her around, trying to talk her down, empathizing with her, showing off the deescalation skills he learned running group therapy for veterans, which is a fun idea, except it absolutely, 100% never works. Karli becomes an increasingly unhinged and violent terrorist as the show goes on, and she's only ever stopped when someone has the good sense to just fucking shoot her--and it's not even Sam! Sam NEVER learns. Karli literally spends the last few moments of her life trying to murder him, immediately after trying to murder a truckload of people, and the dude walks right outside and gives this speech.
If his villain actually had any redeeming qualities, the speech would make sense, but Karli is never shown to be anything but an unhinged violent psychopath, and instead of creating nuance through her actions, the writers apparently thought that giving her a sad backstory would be enough. It isn't, and Sam continuously failing to see what a monster she is only makes him look like a naive doofus, rather than the empathetic, master conversationalist they were trying to make him into.
It is worth noting, and mentioned often in the show, that the supersoldier serum was warping Karli just like it warped everyone else who took it but Steve and Walker kinda' sorta'.
>It's almost like Sam's lines through the show were written by one person, and Karli's actions were written by another
Well, they did change the Flag Smasher's motivation halfway through.
Really weird how an american CIA-consulted show excuses terrorism
It would probably be considered problematic, but I always liked the idea of a running gag of Sam sucking at delivering inspirational Cap speeches.
>Sam this, USAgent that
So...is nobody else bewildered they decided to recycle Cap's scrapped love interest from the 2nd movie as the fucking mastermind?
What? Not Mockingbird is the bad guy behind all the conflict?
I liked it, it was a nice twist and I appreciate they didn't chicken out by making her a Skrull.
We have enough stoic spy ladies. Seething femcuck turned warlord at least adds some spice to things.
.t. low T/high estrogen writing
Regardless of her backstory, we can all agree Karli was an awful person. Right?
>Muh HECKIN' US government
Set aside the race shit aside for one fucking second, can we talk about how quickly the Hulk shit got swept under the table and how little anyone has done to call out Ross for all the crap that's directly his fault? Like this, the Abomination is just fighting for prize money now according to Shang-Chi and now Thanos is fucking gone Banner should have every reason to hold that grudge if he wasn't relegated to being a joke character in his cousin's show.
I think we're being raided by Discord trannies.
>raided
>implying
This place is called Cinemaphilemblr for a reason, you know. You can hate it, but don't pretend this place's love of femdom doesn't predate the election tourists from either side.
You evidently didn't watch this at all. He said nothing of the sort.
Honestly I'm more annoyed by Nick Fury retroactively having all his achievements credited to Skrulls doing his dirty work while he accomplished all of jack and shit in terms of finding them a new home even after getting in touch with Thor, an actual interstellar norse god (not even an advanced alien anymore since Ragnarok and Love and Thunder did it's best to retcon that shit from the first movie without actually spelling it out). His eye was taken out by a cat, he got a Skrull to LARP as his dead wife, he's a loser that falls back to >MUH STRUGGLE shit to win over Rhodey...man is just pathetic. More pathetic than Coulson was when introduced.
>Nick Fury retroactively having all his achievements credited to Skrulls doing his dirty work
That's not really how it happened.
>he got a Skrull to LARP as his dead wife
This didn't happen at all.
Did you even watch the show, or just ragebaiting youtube reviews of it?
That is in fact how it happened.
>This didn't happen at all
I don't care if Varra started it, that shit ain't healthy and says less of him that he didn't try to stop it and that the show portrays it as a good thing.
>Did you even watch the show
I pirated it and regretted my time wasted on a contrived refugee metaphor that just made me feel the Kree did nothing wrong.
Varra's human form was never Fury's wife.
Stop downplaying how fucked up and creepy an alien pretending to be a dead woman is because of technicalities, you autistic pedant.
He essentially tells them: "I know it's impossible and I don't know the solution but you have to do better and somehow find a magic way to fix all this and make it all better!"
Tell me I'm wrong. Tell me I'm "MISREPRUHSENTING" his fucking argument.
Mald.
>captain coon
Wasn't the flag smasher a guy?
Remember when “do better” was the calling cry of retards a few years ago and then it stopped abruptly when people simply asked “how?”
No
Ugh Cinemaphile, I'm so disappointed by your lack of media literacy and nuance. I don't know how you can fix that though.
Just... DO BETTER, OKAY?
*flies away*
Streaming killed the MCU. Not kidding. I'm not watching all this shit.