What did you think?
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Sandman
What did you think?
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I don't watch racechange garbage anon.
>I don't watch racechange garbage anon.
>(proceeds to post garbage)
Okay
>troons and homosexuals can't help but undermine themselves
This is the best part, except for the next one
I liked this animated version of death tho. I thought it was one of the better DC animated things in recent years, counting shorts or direct to video movies
I haven't watched netflixman yet, but Death and the Endless are personifications of abstract things. who gives a frick what they look like so long as they're well written+acted
Except she wasn't chosen because she's a good actress. She was chosen to check off a box.
>Offer no proof except personal kneejerk rejection of any casting choice when it’s black people
Who are you quoting? Do you intentionally create arguments in your head to fuel your hate?
>No proof
Nice attempt to gaslight.
You can't even get nominated for awards unless you have X amount of diversity. Doesn't take much of reach to get pay dirt.
ok
What didn't you like about it, Anon?
Death in the show has really nice milkers so the raceswap is fine with me.
Death was the only bad casting decision in my opinion
Rest of the cast is great
>Death was the only bad casting decision
Having an ugly woman play a character based off of David Bowie is sinful. Literal meme casting.
Pretty sure the Bowie influence was on Lucifer was it not?
I was talking about Lucifer. Reread my post.
Gwendoline Christie is fricking terrible, it's impressive how she manages to be the worst-cast character
She’s only cast in stuff because she was in GOT. She’s not a good actor.
Why the frick didn’t they use John?
John wasn't used because of legal issues with the character. Why they felt the need to still include a Constantine at all despite that is beyond me.
>Why they felt the need to still include a Constantine at all despite that is beyond me.
Can't skip out on the chance for some LGBTQ&A+ representation, even though being bi has never been important or focal to John's character whatsoever.
>Why the frick didn’t they use John?
israelite israelite Abrams has a hold on the character, because of that Constantine show that he's """totally still working on"""
Watching Sandman the adaptation is probably like watching Watchmen the movie, it superficially looks the same but everything that made the original great is completely absent. I'll pass
>it superficially looks the same
Not even. Dream is a Twilight reject, and Death was made black purely because she was a fan-favorite and she was white as a ghost. Sort of like what they did with L in their Death Note adaptation.
Twilight is actually good unlike this racechange garbage. 🙂
Don't forget Domino in Deadpool 2, that stunt casting actually killed a woman.
Wait, are you saying her stunt actor died, or that she--a "stunt cast"--was killed?
Anon was referring to the fact that a woman motorcycle rider (not even a licensed stuntwoman) was killed due to blatant studio neglect thanks to an afro. She couldn't make a turn, wasn't wearing a helmet due to the afro of phoned-in casting Domino, then died shortly after the accident. Stunt experts begged the studio not to use her, as she didn't have proper training.
Sheesh. That shit's like Howard dying; bad intentions that seemed harmless somehow going awry and killing an innocent person.
But ignoring that the Domino casting was just flat out lazy. They just threw a white makeup eye patch on her and called it a day.
True. Jimmy and Kim weren't lazy like those fellas in charge of costumes were.
Death was "made" black because the actress was good enough to play as her
Yeah, the best actress to play her was conveniently an actress who specifically looked the exact opposite from her most well-known visual trait. Who the frick do you even think you're kidding with this? Do YOU actually believe the bullshit you're saying?
They cast a black actress as a stunt. Everyone involved knew for a fact Death is one of the most recognizable and popular characters in the comic, if not THE most recognizable and popular character. They cast a black woman in blatant defiance of her appearance in the comic specifically to create a shield for the other, seemingly smaller changes they would also be making.
Stunning and brave.
Come on now you know that's bullshit
Sounds British
Acts like a punk goth
Sounds wacky and cheerful
Wears a top with pride so I can see her tiddies
Bruh she's checking off all my boxes
Come on now, don't take the bait so easy.
The sad thing is that while it might be bait there are people who think like that.
Not on here. Benefit of the doubt in term's of ignorance isn't afforded, because we've repeated our arguments ten times over--even in this thread alone. Y'gotta use the ol' noggin to sniff out the obvious trolls, and then counter-bait the less obvious ones into revealing themselves as trolls.
>Not on here
I hope you're right anon
Tell me you haven't seen Sandman without telling me you haven't seen Sandman
I've read the comics and watched the show. She's ok in the show, a bit too British sounding, I kinda thought she sounded American in my head reading the comics.
Why would she sound American?
I give characters voices I'm normalize to hearing when I read them dude.
So Dream is also American to you?
>But awards!
And? Neil did not create the show to chase TV award nominations.
>So Dream is also American to you?
I mostly heard a depressed guy with the lowest voice possible, possibly British sounding but not all the time
Here's to another 700+ posts, fellas.
Remember: stay aloof.
It's pretty good, and even if it's not your cup of tea, it wasn't the train wreck people wished for.
I turned it off when Lucien showed up as a black woman. Turning everyone's first cute goth gf into an ugly black woman wasn't enough for them.
Lucien is not the cute goth girl from sandman. In the comic hes an old unfrickable guy. You lost nothing you can still frick your dad.
You misread his post.
no one watched it. we were too triggered by the women and black people
Is 19th century Johanna and modern day Johanna the same person?
identical descendant
I watched the preview and realized they half assed the make up and affects so it's not worth my time.
I skipped straight to the diner episode and it wasn't bad but also nowhere as messed up as the source. It was less DD toying with people and just forcing them to be honest with each other (which mostly revolved around relationship drama). Then Morpheus shows up and somehow that was the worst part of the episode
thank you for cementing my decision not to watch it.
just kidding, there wasn't a snowball's chance in hell regardless.
It was not awful. I did enjoy some of it. The race changes and gayness for some characters are fine until it seems so incongruous with the era and unrealistic that it takes you out of the story.
When literally every relationship in the show so far in the show either interracial, gay, or gay and interracial you do get the feeling you are being preached to and it stops the suspension of disbelief because a gay interracial relationship taking place in the early 1900s England seems strange.
I love the source material; Gaimans comic is excellent and some of that shines through in the show.
However, a lot of the additional writing is fricking awful. They had a scene where bizarrely Johanna Constantine meets a black female Church of England priest who is surreptitiously marrying a princess to a black footballer. The conversational exchange is bizarre and cringe. It is like an American doing a bad impersonation of what they think English people are like. ‘Royal family, football/soccer, bruv.’ It just sounds like such an unrealistic and irritating conversation that took me out of the story completely.
6/10 could have been better.
was mentioned in other threads, but they screwed up the battle of wits in hell so bad i'm questioning if neil actually was involved with the show or just went full james-cameron-shilling-terminator-sequels mode
Yes I was wondering that as well. They had Lucifer fight Morpheus for the contest instead of Choronzon. That was strange. Why do you think they made that change?
It sort of makes Lucifer seems less powerful and intimidating knowing he could lose to Dream. Odd.
Lucifer = bad. Considering this i guess they thought the general audience would not understand why Dream wasn't fighting Lucifer instead of some literally who.
They’re foreshadowing Seasons of Mist by making Lucifer personally lose to Dream, that way it has more impact when the defeat and humiliation directly drives Lucifer to give Dream the key to Hell, where as in the comic he’s more of a salty b***h who sat in the sidelines.
Dream humiliated Lucifer in the comic by cowing all of Hell with one sentence after Lucifer threatened to go back on their deal. It's frankly far more effective in both cases.
But it’s much more effective and personal when you first get defeated in combat and then Dream pussywhips you again with his speech that allows him free passage from Hell. Lucifer gets defeated AND then further humiliated, that’s better drama for a live action show.
But he just gives his speech to Lucifer.
>but they screwed up the battle of wits in hell so bad i'm questioning if neil actually was involved with the show or just went full james-cameron-shilling-terminator-sequels mode
this has been obvious to anybody paying attention. he's a hypocrite. he said pic related about The Watch when it was inaccurate, but he calls his own fans racist when they criticize the show for deliberately miscasting the fan-favorite character on the basis of shock value and subversion.
Why do you gays purposely misinterpret this quote
>doesn't elaborate
Probably because I'm not misinterpreting it, and you're just mad.
The fact you need to purposely twist what he said tells me your the one that's mad here.
The simple answer is that DC didn't let them use John himself
>The fact you need to purposely twist what he said
It's not twisting, it's just the truth. When you go out of your way to frick with parts of the source material that fans like, they will largely be turned off. That's what happened here, and the cope from Gaiman & shills is:
>"Well, uh, you guys were never real fans anyway!"
Which is an argument you say when you don't have any legitimate arguments left; it's pure ad-hom.
Honestly I hope people like you die soon.
>no arguments left
>starts wishing death upon opponents in discourse
And *I* was supposedly the uncivilized one?
>muddies conversations for years with bait lies and racism/transphobia
>gets upset when the tolerance of the left runs out and now they do the same thing you did.
Like I said it's your fault. Fricking did scumbag
conversations for years with bait lies and racism/transphobia
What the actual frick are you talking about? This show JUST came out. Go to
if you're really just trying to engage in a pure, unadulterated culture war.
Why are you still here? Fricking die already
you first, schizohomosexual. lil baby can't maintain the actual discussion, so you just pretend to go off the deep end, huh?
Lmao you don't want actual discussion you just want to complain about wokeness and pretend your a victim in a world thats ready to move on from your bullshit.
Fricking die and hopefully you can go to a better place
>Lmao you don't want actual discussion
No, that's you. I *engaged* in an actual discussion, and you started throwing this tantrum. You couldn't handle what I was saying, so you started crying
>GO DIE, GO DIE
>>GO DIE, GO DIE
not that anon but seriously though
Just die already
What're you, Barneygay? You certainly type like him.
"Barneygay" is nothing but an elaborate script, Lee himself probably hasn't actually posted in ages
Hopefully he's been put into a home. One that plays Barney and MLP 24/7 on the unchangeable TVs.
No, he's not. (You) however clearly come off like a troll who clearly can't provide a counterargument, and got butthurt when people called Gaiman a hypocrite. I don't whine about political sides, you do however. But let's talk about the Death casting. You don't think it's disrespectful that a character based off a real life woman is now made irrelevant? You don't think it's hypocritical for Gaiman to say such things about being faithful to the source material, then backpedaling now because he could earn a buck?
It’s not disrespectful, and it does not make a dead woman irrelevant. And Neil is not hypocritical because Death as a character is still faithful to the source material in the show. What you are doing is make emotional pleas as a fanboy and hyperbolically make how her skin color to be the be all, end all in determining how faithful and respectful something is.
If you cannot get a character's skin tone correct than I know you aren't even trying.
I expect White characters to be White. I expect black characters to be black.
I'm consistent, people like you clearly aren't.
Most popular source material is predominantly white though.
Not my problem.
Write your own original stories.
Or hell use one of the hundreds of black characters. Where's my Vixen movie? Where's Bronze frickin Tiger?
I don't think you'd actually would care to see those movies anon. We got black panther films though.
Ah. Black Panther the first ever black superhero movie.
Just ignore the Blade trilogy I guess.
And I would absolutely love to see Bronze Tiger beating the shit out of someone. At least Arrowverse gave me a live action Vixen
Death is not a human being. Her ethnicity does not matter.
>Her ethnicity does not matter.
It does to other beings who see her.
Then why did they change it?
Because they found Kirby to be the best person to audition for the role.
Diff anon, as someone who doesn't care abut race/sex swapping, they didn't have much of a turnout for her role then. Because she wasn't very good, just average.
I disagree, she was excellent.
>I disagree, she was excellent.
Excellent because blacks don't crack
Why have you regressed the conversation into childish death threats? We called Gaiman a hypocrite, and your retort (or lack thereof) was this moronic bullshit.
>muddies conversations for years with bait lies and racism/transphobia
What? When? Who the frick are you even talking about?
Have you met ONE and I do mean ONE trans person that was alright in the head and wasn't a predator?
>Wishing death on other people
See this is why people think the extreme left is insane by the way. You're all just narcissists looking to perpetually get into mob mentality, and further segregate society rather than bring us all together. But back on topic, why am I a bad person for agreeing with that anon? Neil DID sell out, and he IS a hypocrite. He scarified his work for a paycheck
Not him but he's not twisting anything, you however are.
He's not talking about racebents here is he. he's talking about radically changing a characters personality and themes that represents them
If that were true, why'd he specifically mention a visual aspect?
That batman shouldn't wear a bad costume Neil is for you the same as batman shouldn't be a different race?
Anon, stop trying to "trick" some sort of "gotcha answer" out of him. If it's different from the parts of the source material they like, it will turn people off.
Period.
That's literally his tweet tho
Yeah. Exactly.
he is plainly referencing Dick Tracy. Who doesn't have a bad "costume," but also isn't Batman.
Death isn't wearing any goth attire in the tv show
Morpheus doesn't have long stringy hair
Despair isn't a bloated decaying ogre looking thing
The entire visual aesthetic of the characters is missing as are their costumes.
Eat shit
>Death isn't wearing any goth attire in the tv show
Huh??? She's in the show for one episode, the only time she isn't wearing her goth chick getup is when we see in a flash back in the early 1800s and she's pretending to be a nun or fair lady.
>He's not talking about racebents here is he.
refer to
You don't get to arbitrarily decide where the truth and validity of that statement ends.
he has a "developed by" credit and co-wrote the first episode
agreed, it was an abnormal amount of one type of interracial relationships. Can we get some black characters who stand on their own without a white character bogging them down? Some black and asian relationships? Spanish and Native American? Its tokenism isnt well thought out bec they really only focus on the superficial. Black man, white woman. Gay white male on gay white male. SKinny white lesbianism.
For frick sakes, Despair is wearing clothes. Can show hand getting nailed, imply child death and rape but lord almighty lets not see fat titty.
the complete deletion of a transgender character
Its not as progressive as it pretends to be
>Despair is wearing clothes.
Good. No one wants to see a fatass sitting naked.
>Its not as progressive as it pretends to be
No shit. Dead black people increased by 100% since they changed characters to black. Whites serving whites weren't an issue and now we have a black woman serving under a white man.
>now we have a black woman serving under a white man.
>BossHoggPepe.jpg
I thought I would hate all the Black folk and homosexuals but I didn't. It's just boring. Even the acting is dull and flat.
episode 6 was everything I wanted and more from the Hob Gadling and Sound of her Wings chapters so I'm happy. The rest is whatever. I loved the cereal convention parts. Also them trying to set up a cliffhanger with Lucifer scheming to give Dream the key and abdicate is hilarious. Just gotta leave a hook for the next season huh? They probably think it's going to be some ebin war between hell and the dreaming
Will she turn into Tom Ellis?
I don't think Tom Ellis is a good fit for Gaiman's Lucifer tbh. There aren't many Bowie-adjacent people I can think of at the moment though
Tilda Swinton could still pull it off
yeah, but here's hoping that the next time they try to adapt this show we've figured out to resurrect Bowie from the dead and just get him in the role
or they just leave Sandman in the comics where it belongs
How is it hilarious to do something as basic as a tease for the next potential season?
Neil has already said he would make changes because it has aged poorly, so it would be more respectful as well make it clear that Wanda is a real woman and the Moon is a c**t who is not the arbiter who is and isn’t a woman. They might eliminate killing Wanda off entirely because it is fridging her as well, and I can’t really blame if they go down that route.
Because she ties to 19the century Johanna, and it’s a tiny change that allows you to do issue #3 otherwise intact. I see no reason to complain about it.
Why does it bother you to see people in love, anon?
Neil is correct. Like in the case of Death (because let’s be honest, the casting is what the quote is used to argue against EVERY. SINGLE. TIME.) despite everything you love about the character is still intact and accurate and faithful in the show. The only tiny change (that changes nothing about the depiction of the character) is that the actor is a black woman instead of a white woman. But that is enough to make people lose their shit and accuse Neil of being a sellout hack because the “fans” apparently do not care about anything else except what Death’s skin color is. And if it is not white, the show is terrible and Neil hates his fans.
>despite everything you love about the character is still intact and accurate and faithful in the show
Not her design. And, to quote a certain guy you might know...
>"The fanbase are the fans. And they like the source material because it's the source material they like. So, if you do something else, you risk alienating the fans on a monumental scale."
Frick you and frick your death of the author bullshit. Death is an entity beyond time and space who appears however she wants.
Except how she appears in the comic for some reason
Yes.
>Not her design.
She wears the clothes, she has the frizzy looking hair, she has an Ankh on her neck. And she also acts like Death. Sounds to me like the show is accurate portraying Death in terms of personality and she is visually recognizable. So again, how is there anything wrong with the casting? Other than you cannot get over the actor being black.
>and the Moon is a c**t
I thought this was quite obvious in the comics? Thessaly and her kind are hardly presented as heroes and their actions are out of line and destructive.
>They probably think it's going to be some ebin war between hell and the dreaming
So you've never read the comics then. Lucifer kicks everyone out of Hell, locks the door, and appoints Dream to be in charge.
It is going to be interesting if they do ‘A Game of You’. Neil Gaiman wrote a trans character with that in 1991.
He has been accused of being transphobic since. The trans character cannot participate in some ritual with the moon because the moon only cares if they have XX chromosomes.
Interesting to see how they are going to write that for today.
>It is going to be interesting if they do ‘A Game of You’. Neil Gaiman wrote a trans character with that in 1991.
You're absolutely kidding yourself if you don't think they'd sanitize it to Hell and back. They'd give "her" a snappy, sassy moment where she puts that flayed face in its place... and then they'd never have the face say what it actually says. He'd just say some parody of it that gets downplayed.
This time Hal isn't trying to be full-on transgender, he's just a drag-queen and doesn't seem to have any problem living day-to-day life as a man. So they'll probably just play it off as a joke since he's not committed to actually being a woman like he was in the comics
>This time Hal isn't trying to be full-on transgender, he's just a drag-queen
lol, just fully side-stepping the issue
looks like Netflix doesn't have the budget to piss off the woke crowd anymore. they can't afford another Dave Chappelle special right now.
20$ say that the moon god will be like "homie you in!" and there'll be no problem in that regard
If they have the balls, they'd adapt it to the letter, where the TERF moon goddess excludes her from the ritual, but Death still takes a female soul at the end
Who the flying frick is Joanna Constantine? Correct me if I’m wrong but wasn’t John in the actual comic book? Please tell me they didn’t genderswap him…
>Please tell me they didn’t genderswap him
yes and no. Jena Coleman is technically playing two characters Lady Johanna Constantine (an actual 1800s character from the comic, so no foul play there other than making her a brunette) AND Joanna Constantine, gender-swapped modern-day Constantine.
Not only did they gender swap him. John Constantine is now Johanna Constantine and was in a lesbian interracial relationship with a black woman.
Literally every single on screen relationship so far has been interracial, gay or gay and interracial. In fact gay and interracial has been the most common so far.
I don’t believe you. I doubt they would go that far Netflix for Sandman.
Kek. I literally just watched the fricking show mate. Interracial gay relationships are the most common relationships on screen so far.
Granted there are not that many on screen relationships so it is not that wild.
Welcome to 2022 lad.
>Interracial gay relationships
they even had gay black-on-white at the diner episode
So what about the Sandman stories gets changed by swapping the characters races? The only race related story from the comics was Rob Gadling dealing in the slave trade and regretting it after a hundred years, so they kept him white. Everyone else is fair game by any actor. And i dont understand how a bunch of people that are Sandman fans can be homophobic and racist and act betrayed when the show ends up 'pozzed'. It was the most pozzed comic in the 90's and only started to feel dated in recent years
>It was the most pozzed comic in the 90's
fricking Love and Rockets was still going strong in the 90s
>So what about the Sandman stories gets changed by swapping the characters races?
I just love how this goalpost shift occurs in every single thread. I could go on about the subtleties of how the designs inform their characters, but you'll just strawman those away like always.
At the end of the day, from the horse's mouth:
>"The fanbase are the fans. And they like the source material because it's the source material they like. So, if you do something else, you risk alienating the fans on a monumental scale."
And, so, voila: alienation.
Explain to me how the implications change for Death being black? Or Rose Walker being black? Or Alex Burgess's husband, Paul?
While The Endless look different depending on who's observing them. the base design is engrained in the fandom. Moreover, the original Death design is based off a REAL person. Had this person been black, you'd be in an uproar.
Dream first looked black when human civilization started. The tim burton aesthetic in the books is only an aesthetic and only added to make the endless otherworldly. They didnt paste Tom Sturridge in pure white make-up from head to toe yet you guys complain about Kirby Howell-Baptiste playing Death. No it doesnt matter that Death's design was based on an irl woman, the casting doesnt change a thing about the story
>No it doesnt matter that Death's design was based on an irl woman
Right it just disrespects that woman entirely, someone Gaiman wanted to pay tribute to. Like I said earlier, you're a hypocrite that would have been in an uproar had that poor woman been black
you gay, you took him seriously. he literally started off with bullshit about "muh africa"; could you not tell it was bait from that?
I know, I just enjoy making him look foolish and see what bullshit he'll retort with
No its not hypocrisy when the contexts are different. Black actresses and minorities have a hard enough time getting roles. Race swapping characters can easily be succesful. Such as Zendaya playing MJ in spider-man, or Denee Benton being cast in a musical adaption of a book about Russian nobles. You're denying yourself from enjoying any media because you see a black actor getting the chance to be in more productions. If you had it your way then the vast majority of comic adaptations would lack any non-white actors and alienate audiences. Hiring black actors makes the most sense for equal job opportunities and expanding audience demographics
that's a fair point, I concede
>Black actresses and minorities have a hard enough time getting roles.
So you prefer to drive home the idea that they need handout pity roles instead of playing black characters people want to see, or new ones?
>Such as Zendaya playing MJ in spider-man
That wasn't Mary Jane but a weird having their cake and eat it too scenario not pleasing anyone. Also the hilarious thing about that image is that there's more effort put into that than the actress herself. She couldn't have worn white makeup and had the iconic eye tattoo?
>Had to samegay and pose as me
Hysterical
How about they make good comics with non-white characters, so that they can then adapt it with poc actors? Sorry, but I want characters to look like they do in the source material. I would find it just as stupid if they made a character like Blade white.
>How about they make good comics with non-white characters, so that they can then adapt it with poc actors?
They did make those, but then moneygays didn't want to sell something less popular, so they rarely get adapted in comparison to their more popular counterparts.
And this is why I don't watch these adaptations; They care more about profit margins than actually making a good movie/show. I'll stick to the source material and fan projects.
I am convinced they'd rather raceswap White characters than make something about a black one.
What's the exception? Black Panther?
>I am convinced they'd rather raceswap White characters than make something about a black one.
Well, yeah. Elites make the choices, and they've still got a bit of racism left in them. They want to watch white-leading and white-dominated media, but they want the illusion of progress by inserting a few tokens as the characters they care less about so they don't feel like such a shitbag for not caring about minorities.
Shut up Black person
Not really a fan of Dream's look either. He looks too normal.
>Explain to me how the implications change for Death being black?
How about the obvious fact that she no longer fits with the rest of the Endless? This isn't even getting into the fact that she was cast for the same exact reason that they cast that one guy as L: to piss off people who liked the source material.
>to piss off people who liked the source material.
Which in turn, as we've proven in the past, is a marketing tactic to generate articles and get more eyes on the project. Congrats people, you're free marketing and were used
Okay? That just proves:
>there was no artistic integrity in the casting
>blaxxploitation is well and alive, and somehow considered acceptable in modern society
I'm on your side, Einstein. I'm not the anon you responded to
Well, I felt assaulted by your last remark. I'm sorry for the snark.
Netflix L may as well be the canon L, Netflix Death Note completely destroys the original series
>How about the obvious fact that she no longer fits with the rest of the Endless?
Why does she not fit with the rest of her family? They are not humans. They do not have any real ethnicity. They are anthropomorphic concepts.
>They cast her to piss people off!!!
Oh God, you’re a really dumb culture warrior, aren’t you.
>removes the visual connection to the other Endless, especially Dream
>removes the mild visual implications of a Grim Reaper psychopomp
>removes the color contrast inherent to her design which in turn makes her less visually striking
being black gave Paul more of a soul (still going to hell though) which is why he intentionally let Dream out
I just love how people play moron, using full-on crimestop to keep from understanding what people are actually mad about.
>I stop seeing myself in the media I consume that use to remind myself that I should be the dominant representation
I wouldn't have minded if Death looked the way she does in your pic in the show, but she doesn't
They were so profoundly lazy they couldn't bother to give her the eye makeup or any goth attire.
My problem isn't the race swapping so much as just how obvious it is that nobody involved in the show cared at all about the source material.
In fact I'm pretty much convinced that everyone involved actively despises the comic.
Honestly pic related wouldn't even be that bad, she still looks like a goth, still has the frizzy hair, still has the ankh and the eye makeup. If the actress was capable of pulling off the happy, comforting, friendliness of Death I'd be perfectly capable of accepting that she was simply the best choice for the role and they tried to keep true to the style of the character despite using an actor with a different physical appearance.
I don't mind using actors that look different than the characters if they genuinely are the best choice for a role. The way someone moves, speaks, and embodies a character is usually more important to getting them to feel "right" than making sure their appearance matches up exactly. My issue is that I'm not sure I believe that that's what they were doing here, and just because acting ability is usually more important than physical appearance doesn't necessarily mean you should change a character's appearance just because. The ideal is to strive for both, someone who looks like the character but can also act like them, but casting for an adaptation is always a compromise. Which is to say that the visuals of a character are still important and should still factor into casting choices, same way it factors into every other aspect of the production. Which again I don't think was something they really cared about here, or at least, not beyond a purely superficial level.
As for what a black actress changes about Death. Just off the top of my head, on a purely on a visual level black on brown is not as strong a contrast as the black on white color scheme that Death has in the comics, which makes for a less striking design overall. Having her look similar to Morpheus, who is also primarily black on white, further reinforces both their familial relationship, and the contrast between her and her sibling. Now, are these elements required parts of Death's character? No. Are they important and valuable parts of Death's character? Yes.
Mommy, lesbians, transexuals and gays keep hitting me, mommy.
The girls are making me wear a dress, Mommy, and play with their dolls, Mommy.
Make them stop, Mommy.
I really hope you aren't the same poster as
. That's an example of good trolling, and it'd be pretty disappointing to see such degradation of quality.
Yes. This but literally and unironically. This is what is happening to boys in school.
No I'm not the same anon but also wtf would someone have such vivid scenarios in their head like this... like ever?
Ywnbaw
weird that you have a picture of a kid saved on your computer
This will literally be the image to represent this entire thread kek
I have another
The race changes and gayness for some characters are fine until it seems so incongruous with the era and so unrealistic that it takes you out of the story.
When literally every relationship in the show so far in the show either interracial, gay, or gay and interracial you do get the feeling you are being preached to and it stops the suspension of disbelief because a gay interracial relationship taking place in the early 1900s England seems strange.
It changes the watching experience when every 5 minutes you have to think to yourself ‘Ah. Another interracial gay couple I see. There are bloody lot of those in this universe for some reason…’ It takes you out of the experience of being immersed in the show.
Yeah by the time I was seeing the third black lesbian it felt incredibly heavy handed and all I could think was they were over compensating because muh oscar/hollywood backlash. Meanwhile they had no problem as usual writing every gay guy as the usual metro sexual who loves drag or is instantly horny and wanting to frick any guy he met, that shit is basically gay blackface at this point.
>You get the feeling you're being preached to
Haha holy shit
And you wrote that without a hint of irony in the middle of your fricking sermon
Incredible
Do you want to know why Dream looks like Edward Cullen and there's a lot of make models being gay or brooding and lots of poc actors?
Because that's what their target audience wants to see. It's not even anything new, it's basic soap opera stuff.
That you can't move past it only speaks about you.
I'd say it's a fine criticism that they decided to up and change the entire fricking target audience from people who read or would've liked the original comic to white girls and other mindless consumers.
Changed it?
Oh, my friend
Did you think the Sandman fanbase was made up mostly of masculine men?
>And then John was a gay
It certainly wasn't made up of teenage girls and trend chasers. At least, it wasn't before it became popular.
>Shes black because they rest didn't audition well for her
Yeah, she was conveniently the best man for the job, when she conveniently had a trait that directly opposed the fan-favorite character's design. Keep pretending they didn't cast her as an outrage shield.
>The Sandman fanbase wasn't made up of teen girls
You're moronic m8
Sandman has always been mall goth as frick
This is embarrassing for you
It’s very convenient how every casting of a black actor is always a woke conspiracy to deflect criticism.
It's very convenient how they specifically pick the fan-favorite, palest characters to make black. Very convenient that you can't say "Hey, that's a deliberately bad casting job" without a horde of shills coming down from the mountains to tell you why you're going to Hell.
>It certainly wasn't made up of teenage girls
In interviews long before the Netflix show was ever even a consideration, Neil said many times that Sandman was bringing in huge amounts of female readers that weren't buying comics previously. Supposedly it was close to a 50/50 demographic breakdown for people buying Sandman comics. Take it for what it's worth though, he never had any stats to show, but there was nothing being sold during those, so it's probably truth.
How the frick can anyone look at a single page of Sandman and not immediately see that it's catnip for 90's mall walkers
Have you c**ts never been outside? Never been to a Spencer's? Never seen a hot topic?
No wonder you people never get laid, you think the entire population of girls that might actually frick you doesn't exist.
Your post reads like you're attacking me, but we both agree about Sandman bringing in lots of female readers?
Unless you're just springboarding off my post, then carry on.
The latter
I'm not giving (you)'s to the budding stormgays
Yeah, part of what drew me into Sandman originally was how late 80s/early 90s it was, then I discovered how much I enjoyed the comic after.
Carryon shitting on all those morons though, shame that it's going to be a few more months before everyone gets bored of raging over the swaps, so we can have actual conversations about the Netflix version.
Or maybe something else needs to draw their fake outrage away. I remember when that one comic implied that Batman might be bi, and the outrage died so quickly, because Cinemaphile was hit with a bunch of things to get fake outraged by, and the Batman comic quickly got pushed to the side.
This is the kind of astroturfed "outrage" that immediately disappears
What did you think of Rose? I loved most of the series but her acting felt really flat. She never seemed to react to anything with the appropriate level of enthusiasm - not even finally finding her brother
>What did you think of Rose?
You're right about her acting, I haven't seen her in anything else, so I don't know if it's a lack of proper direction, or if that's what the director wanted. It almost felt like they were pushing for her grandmother to be more liked.
>you do get the feeling you are being preached to and it stops the suspension of disbelief because a gay interracial relationship taking place in the early 1900s England seems strange.
Gay people still existed in the early 1900s UK, anon. And a wealthy guy like Alex would not need to hide his gayness as much because his wealth and status protects him.
It makes a once beautiful character ugly, and that's enough.
That’s a you problem since you hate looking at black people evidently.
You realize they swap races because they're too cowardly to cast black actors in black roles, right?
They feel the need to hedge their bets with more popular white characters by white authors. They feel they need to give black actors hand me down white roles because they don't think black people sell well enough.
Do you not see how fricking racist all this raceswapping by the studios is?
If they really wanted work for black actors, why not adapt a black fantasy author instead of the work of a crusty old white guy?
>So what about the Sandman stories gets changed by swapping the characters races?
What would be changed if you made them talking dogs?
If it doesn't matter, why make the conscious decision of changing their race?
By the way, black people are less than 5% of UK, why are they 50% on the show?
Because it's important that black people see characters that look like them so that they can relate to them and look up to them or be inspired by them.
>But can't that same argument be used to explain why white people get upset when white characters are racebent, thus depriving them of beloved characters that they could racially identify with?
Shut up, whitey. /s
at this point black and brown (who are mostly straight and allergic to LGBT stuff) people are the next biggest voting block for the republicans so netflix is trying to speedrun the campaign to convert them
Could we protect his smile this time bros?
glad they didn't do my main man hob dirty
He dies?
No, but somebody close to him does.
Good
I loved the idea of a character who’s endlessly enthusiastic about life
my heart when Dream didn't show up to the meeting in the 80s, and the bartender told him the pub was getting demolished
right in the feels. Hob's story was always in my top 3 in this series
I won't watch it because Gaiman sold out and became a hypocrite
What the frick is she wearing
clothes
but that's not death, anon. that's rose walker
>but that's not death, anon. that's rose walker
to be fair, he never said it was. you assumed "she" was referring to Death, because Death is the hot-topic of the thread, and also played by a black actress.
he could've very well been erroneously referring to her as death, but I'm just saying.
Wait wait wait they even raceswapped Rose? For what fricking purpose?
Uhh, not 'nuff Black folks. Because that's what "diversity" means; more black people.
Roughly half the characters have either been race swapped or gender swapped. And no, that's not an exaggeration.
Because Rose’s ethnicity is not important aspect of the story and they did open casting for the show.
Funny how a White character's race is never an important aspect.
It rarely is because writers are very lazy and use white ethnicity as a default setting, and never bother to make anything about someone being white vital to the plot.
that's Death???? ew
it's store-brand Sandman. Yeah, it kind of tastes the same but something's slightly off and ultimately unsatisfying.
Can these frickers stop adapting non super hero comics? They just frick it up
Why don’t they just make 1 to 1 animated series. How do these frickers see Invincible’s success and not try to copy its basics?
>Why don’t they just make 1 to 1 animated series.
Nobody actually cares about Sandman for that to happen. It's just using the brand-recognition for a quick buck.
they already sunk nearly 170 mil into this one season of the live action series on production alone, they most certainly give enough of a shit to try and with that kind of investment I doubt it's a quick buck - probably a net loss for them actually given how their subscriber counts have been going the last few quarters
anyways point being that 170 mil could've gone towards some great animation quality
Netflix execs are actually moronic if they sunk enough into this for it to operate at a loss. They should just fully cheap out when they do shit adaptations like these, rather than going half-n-half with a good budget, but shitty writing.
yeah I definitely trust Netflix to make animated adaptations of things I like
I’ve never watched this, but I heard it was great?
It was not.
It was
not.
Your opinion. My opinion says it was great.
if you don't care about castlevania, you'll love it
if you're a zoomer castlevania fan, you'll hate it because it doesn't line up with what you read on wikipedia about the games
if you're OG boomer vania fan, you'll think it's pretty fun though the quality isn't that consistent
Nah, if you're an OG boomer fan you'll like the first season and the climax to the second, and think the rest is a snore.
opinion
I'm an og boomer (played the first games since the NES era) and I thought it was shit, not because it wasn't like the games but because it became a poorly written directionless mess after Dracula's death. And even before that they were already wasting our time with absolutely worthless characters in S2
>if you're OG boomer vania fan, you'll think it's pretty fun though the quality isn't that consistent
That is a poser cope. The story wasn't good on its own much less as an adaptation. Netflix Castlevania was about loving the Antichrist which wasn't the case since CV1.
I honestly only care about comic book adaptions because I want more people to read western comics, but it never works. I can barely get marvel universe fans to read a comic. Every invincible fan I know is “waiting for season 2” instead of even considering the comics. Why America, why do you do comics so fricking dirty!?
Americans are generally lazy.
>t. american
nobody take this guy seriously. this is flat-out bait.
The frick are you on about? After Invincible came out over half a million of the comics were sold.
Forgettable doesn’t really lean in the trippy aspects of the comics, it lacks art direction. It’s very safe.
3/10
Sandman is a very popular comic book, read by many people from different walks of life. The fact that oddly homophobic racist folks have read it and thought it supported their world views is very strange but intriguing. Though I'm sure most here are trolls that don't really believe what they say just trying to get a easy rise so they ignore how empty their current lives are.
>Though I'm sure most here are trolls that don't really believe what they say just trying to get a easy rise so they ignore how empty their current lives are.
The self-awareness is real. Usually trolls don't have that. It's almost funny, and I mean actually funny, not the sort of funny you say when you're in an argument.
Nobody in this thread complaining is racist or homphobic, they're complaining it's a bad adaption.
Sandman had minority characters and most people enjoyed it, the problem is the adaption is changing the characters to be things they weren't before, and they're mad because that changes the characters they liked.
But you knew that already didn't you?
Anon, that is one of the most blatant troll-posts I've seen in a while. He even has self-aware humor about it; read the last sentence again.
I see more complaining about seeing too many brown people in the show then real legit complaining like the awful cgi, the boring music and the slow ass writing.
>the boring music
And they keep reusing that single cue. Hell, I was completely sick of it by episode 2 when they reused it over a dozen times in a single episode...
That's because everyone gave up on it after seeing Death's cast. People are sick of Netflix's antics.
Really because I see more complaining about how the show didn't even bother with character costume design.
They are just /misc/luters on their WAAAAHHH THEY CAST A BLACK PERSON, IT'S GENOCIDE autistic routine.
Nice bait bro. Almost rustled my jimmies
I haven't finished it but I think we all can agree on something, no matter if you liked it or not...
FRICK. THIS. PASSING.
>Preacher
Ruined
>Y the Last Man
Ruined
>Sandman
Vertigo bros...
I used to want a Sandman Mystery Theatre adaptation.
Now, I know they'd just ruin it. Especially Burke.
dead is better
long i have grown out of caring about adaptations, they always look lackluster and disappointing.
just the bench scene shows a incomprehensible lack of care.
It's good, episode 5 was too slow and artsy but thankfully Dream saved it from being too boring. The rest of it was great. Although the whole Unity is the real cause for everything to save Rose's life is a bit of deus ex machina but it's explain alright enough for me to let it go. Disappointed how much Corinthian b***h out though. 8/10 and eat my ass pol homie. I hope it gets a season 2.
>8/10 and eat my ass pol homie
You really couldn't just let bygones be bygones, and accept that some people have differing standards from you? God, you're such a homosexual.
Lol you responded and continued to be more b***hy. So my post justified itself.
>So my post justified itself.
How so?
Anon...you have to even ask?
Well, I'm not from /misc/, so I don't really see how your post justified itself.
>8/10 and eat my ass pol homie
What the
did he forget to sign into his burner
It was a black staffer. Don't be a conspiracy theorist.
Where do you even find these? Or why do you have the mindset to even save them?
I don't find "those" anywhere. I saved that one because people talk on the internet like black people a lot, even when they're white as snow. Just a lil reminder about who's most likely on the other side of the screen when somebody types "homie" or uses ebonics.
This is the best you'll ever get btw
I've seen more boomers completely chill with raceswaps but more zoomies extremely toxic and moronic about the topic. Make what you will of my anecdote but for me I purely see it as complete non issue for people with no real life to construct this "problem" for themselves ie. a fricking zoomer
>fans are rightfully upset that a character they like is completely unrecognizable to the source material
The horror.
>I've seen more boomers completely chill with raceswaps
Because they're normies who don't give a shit about the source material. It's specifically designed so that only people who give enough of a shit will get mad, at which point the media will label them racist bigots, which is the shield forever used to defend the series' quality from any form of criticism about the poor casting choices.
I've seen more and more people stop caring about being called racist over this kind of stuff
Not to be too rude, but... duh? The same tactic used over-and-over again is just going to become less effective with each successive use, until it is no longer successful.
When people who aren't racist realize that they're going to be called racist just for criticizing a casting choice, then the word stops being so meaningful to that person.
Its a good thing. Hope it keeps happening.
>178 replies
>36 posters
Guess nobody is watching this
Anyone who watches it is smart enough not to care what Cinemaphiles think on it
I liked Michael Clarke Duncan as Kingpin but hate Death's casting. What now, homosexuals?
>uhh...
>"YOU'RE LYING"
that simple. there's no "winning" here.
So I wonder if Gaiman would now accept that offer he got years back regarding adapting Anansi Boys with an all white cast.
After all apparently the race of the characters and accurately adapting the story is no longer important...right?
Why does that look like the guy who played the leader of the Joes in the GI Joe movie
Morbius already failed, why is Sony insisting on making a Sandman film? Soulless
>The amount of same gayging I'm seeing here.
Man this shows alright but Neil and Netflix must've stirred up some real shit with the reactionaries. I was too stupid to believe I could talk about my favorite comic here in comics and cartoon.
>I was too stupid to believe I could talk about my favorite comic here in comics and cartoon
Maybe try a thread about the comic, then, instead of one that is blatantly about the show. You victim-complex homosexual.
You're not talking about the comic though. You're talking about a soulless live action version.
>Soulless
The show is rich with homages to the comic, and it even thank God cuts the weakest slower elements that could only work for a comic. The show has it's own problems too but besides the point, it was good enough to be creation, it's own product and not just "the comic but now with television actors".
>it was good enough to be creation
it was live-action, so you're inherently wrong.
It's own creation*, as in a separate product from the comics. sorry typed too fast. But sure go off.
>The show is rich with homages to the comic,
The fact that there are so many raceswaps disproves this.
Welp people seem to be talking about the comics here now. Not for good reasons though. I like Sandman and it's weird universe and I assume a thread about the show that I like as well would talk about the comics with the same admirations.
>would talk about the comics
You must be confused. The major of Cinemaphile has never read a comic, let alone the Sandman comics.
This thread, like many others, is just a fake outrage thread for shitposters to get easy (You)s.
I guess I know that now. Real disappointing shit.
Come back to Cinemaphile in a month or so, if you want actual discussion of Sandman in any form. For the foreseeable future all Sandman threads are going to be like this.
>every /misc/luter pusting on Cinemaphile has never read a comic
There, fixed it for you
No, the majority of Cinemaphile doesn't read comics at all, and mostly just post about cartoons. /misc/tards don't read anything, beyond what is spoonfed to them in /misc/.
>Welp people seem to be talking about the comics here now.
Because the source material states they appear as different versions as justification for the race change but when we bring up Nada and the discrepancy why Death doesn't change a certain someone goes full moron.
Pale Morpheus to black = good
Black Death to any other color = bad
Constantine is a woman?
Is she as crass and vulgar as John Constantine?
if you want a non /misc/ i cry about every black person i see opinion or a joyless nostalgia gay opinion. it's okay, source is better like always. It's okay at best, meh at worst.
>if you want a non /misc/
Why the frick is it "/pol/" to criticize a deliberate inadherence to the source material that was born purely of a need to shock and anger large swaths of the comic fans?
it's /misc/ to complain about a being that can take any shape and being mad that they're black. The only legitimate grievance about a race change is when the character is tied to their race. Like black panther being white. i don't care about what a formless being looks like as long as they can play them well. Death in the show is just okay, her performance leaves much to be desired.
>it's /misc/ to complain about a being that can take any shape and being mad that they're black.
so, everybody in the audience is black? why aren't the rest of them black? why was it that only the fan-favorite member of the Endless was arbitrarily made black? almost like they wanted to piss a certain subsect of people off...
no! it couldn't be! they would never!
Who cares about the audience? Shes black because they rest didn't audition well for her. It must be so tiring to always live in a conspiracy theory when things in reality are so simple.
>conspiracy theory when things in reality are so simple.
This gaslighting only works if it's actually a bullshit "conspiracy theory". She's black because the current trend in media is to race-swap characters. How covenient for them to change Dream's appearance when talking to Nada when they didn't turn her into a israelite when talking to the old man.
>They cast black actors to shock and anger me!
Take your meds
Take yours, you tool. They've literally used this same exact fricking strategy time and time again. Your gaslighting isn't fooling anyone.
If the race of the actor doesn't matter why change the race at all?
Thread derailed by race-swapped bullshit is amusing but I honestly liked it.
>Lucienne is now a black servant serving the Massa
>black lesbo addicted to sand dies in bed
>Black Death took the dying israelite
>Lucifer, the deceiver is appropriately a woman
>interracial marriage ends with the footballer possesed and died
>troony Desire is a villain and a rapist
>Dream cucked Hector Hall and kills him
I don't get what's not to like. It's entertaining.
>I don't get what's not to like. It's entertaining.
Would've been more entertaining to just have a faithful adaptation without any of the constraints that this one has.
Then we wouldn't have great scenes such as the black kid getting swarmed by rats, being locked up in the basement or telling the nightmare nigress that she's a literal nightmare.
I just want regular great scenes, not ones that are ironically great.
Lucienne is literally in charge of most of the dreaming now you dumb frick. But no you saw black person in a suit and thought slave
>slave
Servant not slave, you racist.
>Lucienne is now a black servant serving the Massa
>Massa
If you're going to deflect, don't be a b***h about it
Alright then, I rescind my previous comment.
>Lucienne is now a diversity quota.
>black lesbo addicted to sand dies in bed
>Black Death took the dying israelite
>Lucifer, the deceiver is appropriately a woman
>interracial marriage ends with the footballer possesed and died
>troony Desire is a villain and a rapist
>Dream cucked Hector Hall and kills him
I don't get what's not to like. It's entertaining.
nice b8 m8
It was pretty great and I'm looking forward to more.
The only real flaw I could see was that the girl who played Rose was kind of a shit actress.
>God, you people really love to misunderstand and misconstrue the quote.
refer to
It's not "misconstruing" or "twisting" anything. You just don't like that Gaiman is a hypocrite, and thus decided to put arbitrary qualifiers to what exactly he meant.
Gaiman is not a hypocrite, you have poor reading comprehension. The show changed nothing about Death’s character. Her actor is just black while her costume design remains accurate to the comic. The quote you keep twisting and misrepresenting does not apply at all, but c**ts like you don’t care because it’s just a convenient way to veil your anti-woke bullshit behind “I AM A TRUE FAN, MR. GAIMAN” facade.
>just black
Woah there. A character's complexion is an important part of that person.
>Gaiman is not a hypocrite, you have poor reading comprehension. The show changed nothing about Death’s character.
Yeah, it did. Her design. You're just arbitrarily narrowing definitions until they suit your argument.
This change would be a lot more tolerable if it had an actual reasoning, instead of being a blatant play at creating an outrage shield.
The design is intact outside of one aspect, and the characterization is spot on. You people whining about Death’s casting choose to always do this thing where you inflate the importance of her skin color to be the sole important and defining feature that matters and refuse to be objective and reasonable debater and acknowledge that her personality is highly important factor as well, or that nothing else about the design is different outside of her ethnicity when she wears the same clothes and Ankh and anyone with a brain can automatically recognize her as Death from those visual cues.
biitch looks Vanessa Blue
>You people whining about Death’s casting choose to always do this thing where you inflate the importance of her skin color to be the sole important and defining feature
No. Nobody does that. Your strawmen of us do that, but nobody actually does that.
Again, I wouldn't give a shit if it weren't so clearly manipulative. If there were an actual reason that made a lick of sense, I'd be fine with it. But, no, you all have to bootlick corporate decision-making, don't you?
The Endless don't have race though. so you're just mad that the actress is black?
>The Endless don't have race though
Then why does Dream chance his appearance when he talks to Nada?
I haven't watched the show yet, but in the comics, its not a thing that they do. People perceive them differently. So He doesn't become black for her, she just always sees him as black.
like if she saw him, and he didn't know she was there, she would see black dream, not a different version of him.
>People perceive them differently.
Exactly. It's just Death that's permanently black. Dream changes between races. Death didn't when she visited the israeli old man, ow ginger when the ginger died or the Mexican. It's like a mandate that she HAS to be black to fill in a quota.
>I haven't watched the show yet, but in the comics, its not a thing that they do. People perceive them differently. So He doesn't become black for her, she just always sees him as black.
The show has the visual change, but the comic doesn't always. See:
He just looks like Morpheus.
>the wound was healed
So everytime he fricks her her hymen gets restored?
She stabs herself with a rock in hopes that it would put him off.
>He just looks like Morpheus.
Are you blind? He has the same coloration but his facial structure is completely changed.
I'm not blind, but you're moronic. The "He just looks like Morpheus." comment was referring to the OTHER image, not the one in that post.
The one where he's talking to Nada while in Hell.
>The show has the visual change, but the comic doesn't always.
>See:
Unnecessary changes, and I'm not talking about the race/sex swapping. The game Dream plays to get his helmet/mask back, drastically changed from being one of the coolest scenes in any comic to mildly tense, the 24 Hour Dinner scene went from straight unhinged horror to boring. I doubt we're going to get a season 2, so there's not going to be any resolution for the people who just watched the etflix version. I get removing the regular DC comic character appearances, even if it's lame replacements. Having Etrigan leading Dream through Hell would have been great, but it would just have been distracting to the story, but having Nada give Dream the answer to the game was awful. Even worse was Matthew giving Dream a peptalk to be able to recover from the anti-life attack. I will never understand why they didn't have all the demons part the crowd as Dream walks through after winning and even getting one up on Lucifer. Why was Maziken prettier than Lucifer? Dream and matthew even made a point of talking about Lucifer's beauty, yet the actress is anything but.
So many stupid changes that didn't help anything.
>No no. I don't mean that image. I mean some other random image.
Frick off moron.
You're the fricking moron. The show shows him, while talking to Nada, as the black version we see in the comic, from the Nada issue. When Morphues goes to hell in the comic, we don't see him as the black version.
Now does your moronic brain understand what I said?
No. We're back to you being blind because in that image, when Nada sees him, Dream does not "just looks like Morpheus". He has an entirely different facial structure.
No, we're stuck in you being moronic. Morpheus doesn't look like his black version to Nada, as seen in the Nada issue. He looks like one of his many appearances, but not black in any regard. No one has ever been confused about who was "that guy with blue hair in that one panel". We all understood it as Morpheus.
Sorry about your moronation.
Sorry anon. But you're the only moronic one here. I never once mentioned any confusion or that he was black. I refuted your claim that he didn't change in that panel because he very clearly does.
We've been talking about him changing to an appearance like the person seeing him, you want to pretend like that's not what we're talking about, for a semantic argument.
Go ahead, be moronic.
They look like the watcher sees them. To a race of sentient flowers, they look like flower, to cats they look like cats etc.
You didn't read the comic, did you?
>You didn't read the comic, did you?
I read a comic where Death was as pale as Death for starters.
So you didn't understand it. Prime /misc/ material, I see
>So you didn't understand it.
There's that strawman again. Enlighten me then, will you? Why didn't she appear white here?
>The incarnation of ethernal concepts that existed billions of years before humans and will exist forever MUST look like ME!
Sorry that triggered your autism
(diff anon, btw)
>t. didn't read the comics
An anthropomorphic personification.
>ethernal
You're the one who typed so fast that your hands are shaking.
Damn you're really riled aren't you?
Or Mexican here?
Or a israelite?
Or dare I say it, European?
These are people of the modern world. Seeing a hot black lady smiling at them would be 100% natural and comfortable for them. But at that point if they where racist I think she does something to their minds to not even care anymore since they're already dead.
why does she and Dream appear chalk white to each other
>It’s manipulative to cast a good actor!
>You are a corporate bootlicker for not hating a black actor in this role like I do!
For someone accusing others of strawmanning, you don’t really offer much real arguments beyond typical anti-woke talking points that have no real value or merit when the topic is judging actual performance of the actor in a TV show and whether or not the casting works, which it does.
Unnecessary changes, and I'm not talking about the race/sex swapping. The game Dream plays to get his helmet/mask back, drastically changed from being one of the coolest scenes in any comic to mildly tense, the 24 Hour Dinner scene went from straight unhinged horror to boring. I doubt we're going to get a season 2, so there's not going to be any resolution for the people who just watched the etflix version. I get removing the regular DC comic character appearances, even if it's lame replacements. Having Etrigan leading Dream through Hell would have been great, but it would just have been distracting to the story, but having Nada give Dream the answer to the game was awful. Even worse was Matthew giving Dream a peptalk to be able to recover from the anti-life attack. I will never understand why they didn't have all the demons part the crowd as Dream walks through after winning and even getting one up on Lucifer. Why was Maziken prettier than Lucifer? Dream and matthew even made a point of talking about Lucifer's beauty, yet the actress is anything but.
So many stupid changes that didn't help anything.
I believe this to be the only valid opinion in the thread, actual criticism of the show. I've never seen anyone complain about hob though, so it looks like everyone universally is good with his episode
>I believe this to be the only valid opinion in the thread, actual criticism of the show.
Wow, the outrage shield is still working. It really is thought-eliminating.
I don't listen to any opinions from someone who hasn't engaged in the media.
>I am an mindless idiot who can't handle dissenting arguments
What a strange thing to be proud of.
It's strange to not be joyless and simply enjoy or not enjoy things because of their merit and not the circumstances around it?
No, that you mention it, not having any standards is actually pretty normal.
>I've never seen anyone complain about hob though
It's probably the best part of the Netflix version, honestly.
I know it was probably a budget reason for cutting, but the house being made of flesh was a disappointing removal also.
Dream is very petty in the comics, and it didn't come across in the Netflix version very often. Probably not wanting the lead to be overly unlikable for the average person.
Probably one of the most disappointing things is they seemed to tone Dream down. He comes across as a lot less sympathetic and far more vengeful in the comic.
I was arguing with a dude on reddit who just admitted he hates black people by default and that's why he was pissy about black Nick Fury. It was refreshing to see some honesty for once instead of "MUH DESIGN" bullshit as if they'd care if Nick Fury was simply ginger or Wolverine was tall.
>Wolverine was tall
Logan being a manlet helps sell his grumpy attitude.
Corinthian was a fricking boss
Sandman was good even if he was a bit unintimidating
John was great
Cain and Abel were great
>why isn't death 4 different actors in these scenes
Simple: The perspective we get isn't that of the dying.
Any other stupid questions?
>Simple: The perspective we get isn't that of the dying.
And yet the comics portray the Endless with the changes even though it's in a third-person. You can't claim proof for your arguments in the comics if you also choose to ignore proofs in the comics.
>And yet the comics portray the Endless with the changes
It doesn't 99% of the time. You have failed.
Simple: Frick White people.
Any other questions?
>Ethernals can look like weird sentient floer things, but HOW DARE YOU CAST A BLACK ACTOR REEEEEEE
LOL /misc/luters. Every time.
>Ethernals
They're anthropomorphic personifications.
>HOW DARE YOU CAST A BLACK ACTOR
How dare they not cast an Asian?
>anthropomorphic
LOLno.
Lol yes
>anthropomorphic
LOLyes.
Literally identified as an anthropomorphic personification, from one Endless to another Endless.
He continues to be ass blasted while "dissecting" semantics
when even the show and the comics continue to prove him wrong.
First, you were arguing with a different anon.
Second, an anthropomorphic personification is literally from the comic and the show.
Turning to Overture is the weakest of arguments, considering it was created 25ish years after.
See:
You sure about that?
>Turning to Overture is the weakest of arguments
Lol coping this much
>having no argument to counter what was in the original run of comics and the Netflix show
Lol coping this much
The actual show you're defending proved you wrong.
Lol
LOL
>I didn't read nor understand the source material, I"m just here to complain about black actors
>the source material
>ignores the source material AND the adaptation in favor of Overture
Sandman in not only that 1 picture you dowloaded, Cleetus. It's explicitly stated and shown that Eternals can and will change gender, race and even species or realm (stone, bacteria etc)
You should try to read a book once.
>Eternals
Endless.
>Eternals
>You should try to read a book once
You first.
>Eternals
>explicitly stated and shown that Eternals can and will change gender, race and even species or realm
Including the comic book company it seems.
>Eternals
No wonder you're sperging. We're talking about 2 different things! All good, man.
>Eternals
>Eternals
What?
>Sandman in not only
>dowloaded
>Eternals
Damn that really shorted your brain. I can feel the second-hand shame and seething from all that, even after you called someone a moronic ESL. You probably need to close the tab and come back when your ears stop being red from the shame. Cool your face a bit on the tap.
>Sandman in
Sandman is. The n is too far away from s for that to be a typo, ESL moron.
Lol you fricked off after this. Come back, you coward.
Low budget shill.
>Eternals
HAHAHAHA
>What?
Well... he did write that shit too.
Though looking at the original post, that anon did mean Endless.
moron
>Pretending you were ever a fan just to push your bizarre corruption of works with queer and race swapping
They aren't adapting Overture, they're adapting the main comics. Watch the show.
Seems like you didn't watch the show.
Yeah, in a crowded place full of humans they would look human, to a human
In a crowded place full of rats, they would look like rats, to a rat.
You aren't the sharpest knife in the drawer, are you?
To a black person, a pale goth would look black. Except to a israelite, in which case, they appear black.
Yes, anon. I read the cat issue, unlike you. The animal must have dreams, for Morpheus to even appear to them at all.
The Endless are anthropomorphic personifications of intelligent being's understandings. Not sure why you're trying to argue against this, both the comic and show state it very clearly.
The world isn't ruled by the cats anymore, no one gives a shit about how they see Dream.
>has a very iconic appearance
>change it for more "representation"
>The incarnation of ethernal concepts that existed billions of years before humans and will exist forever MUST look like ME!
>proceeds to post comics where they actually change their appearance to look like different versions
>they can look however they want!
>except how they appeared in their source material, chud
>but the comics weren't first person
And? Do you think a panel or shot has to be first person to be what a specific person is seeing? If so I regret engaging with an invalid.
>You can't claim proof for your arguments
lol what kind of moron ESL phrasing is this?
>/pol/babby that got BTFO thinks only one person is calling him moronic
It wasn't their perspective
You lose
Go back
>Unless you agree with the needless racechange you don't like the comic
What cope is this
I thought Joann was like an old timey ancestor of John. Did she just replace him?
Can’t be mad if they finally got the name right though
Blame JJ Abrams
They would probably have to pay for the Hellblazer rights, to use him. Easier to just use a nobody character that almost no one knows even technically exists. Also much cheaper.
yeah i figured it was dancing around a rights thing. I don't even remember John from the comic but it's been years and I didn't even like it. And it is the type of book he would show up in.
is she smoking at least
>is she smoking at least
Nope.
this is where the rage should be directed, what the frick.
Wasn't very good, mostly boring seems divorced from a lot of context. I've never read sandman because gaiman's books are terrible.
Why aren't the "it's not comic accurate" homosexuals complaining about us not being able to see Despairs's warty fat rolls?
you
It's a fricking joke you pussies
This thread is so self righteous and on edge you literally take a shit post this seriously
That won't get you away from the egg already on your face buddy
No one even talks about the other Endless, aside from poor casting choices and bad acting. Also, the other Endless are mostly "who gives a shit" tier at the start of Sandman. They only become interesting later. So minor changes to nobody characters don't really matter.
Because Death is their waifu, not Despair.
Also because 90% of people complaing about BLACK ACTOR REEEE looks like Despair, but man
It lost a lot of steam after the first "arc" ended and the second big "arc" suffered because Rose just kind of sucked, but Dream is great and Corinthian was amazing and most of the bit players did an amazing job.
I hope next season has much more of the other endless.
Anyone humoring people complaining about death needs to stop feeding them
>death played by black actress
lmao fragile chuds getting upset when it's all about the acting
>james franco cast as castro
the whitewashing has gone too far, how was this allowed
Do you not understand the difference between a anthropomorphic entity and a real human being? I can see how latin american actors are annoyed they cast Franco as Fidel when Franco’s like, max 25% Portuguese from his father’s side.
franco is just a israelite who happens to have one Portuguese grandparent kek
do you not understand that the people who loved the comicbook want to see the characters from the pages come to life on the screen? death is iconic and I want to see the iconic death. that's all there is to it. miss me with the mental gymnastics shit.
The show does a perfectly good live action death. You crying because she’s black is you being an butthurt fanboy.
Are you literally mentally deficient?
No, are you? You seem completely incapable of admitting something can be good despite minor visual change.
Not when the most iconic thing about her is how she looks. When you change something, let it be for good reason and not quota bullshit
Go be superficial fan somewhere else if all you care is her skin tone.
I'm completely justified in not wanting to watch it and not liking it due to the changes they made in adopting a comicbook I absolutely adore, not least of which is the iconic appearance of Death, you complete nincompoop. You automatically playing some race or woke card over this just shows how much volume of your brain is occupied by politics rent free.
Anon it's trolling, it's the reason the last thread got to 700 posts. It's all bait.
I guess xe got me good then. Well played to you, good person! Epic troll, haha.
Which thread?
>To sum up.
>Ignores all posts talking why the character is important, or people criticising all aspects of the show.
>Calls everyone racist or a waifuist.
>People ask them to be specific.
>She perfectly encapsulates how Death acts and comes off as a person, she has the right balance where she’s aloof but still serious and wise older sister, her line delivery is top notch, her screen presence is engaging and immersive somwhen you watch her episode you see her as Death and not a black actor. Adequate enough for you?
They give this description. People mock them for it.
>Look, english is my second language and I had a brain fart when trying to think of a word to describe when she’s being upbeat and cheerily ”Peachy Keen” silly, rather than grim and serious. Thousand pardons for my mistake.
Leading to backpedals like this.
These are the people you're arguing with. There is no depth in anything they are saying. They will just strawman and misrepresent your arguments everytime but provide no depth to their points when pushed.
You’re entitled to your opinion of not wanting to watch the show, and other people are entitled to mock you for it because you write off a good show over pedantic bs and can’t actually offer real and valid arguments for it.
And you are a literal moron if you automatically equate my decision with racism and identity politics, you despicable redit twat.
You don’t like that Death is black on the show, is that not correct? And that change is at least partially why you won’t watch the show at all, yes? If so, then you deserve to be mocked for that opinion because the actress does a good job in the role.
I wouldn't like it if she were the most beautiful fair-skinned blonde woman of Norway in the show since it's not her iconic look from the comics, you fricking idiot. You absolutely deserve everyone's ire for interpreting everything through the lens of your toxic and racist political views.
So you fully admit her skin tone is the sole reason that triggers you. Great, then you deserve to be mocked for it.
You are in an age where people rage and moan if you cast a white voice actor to a non-white character, and you have the cuckery of saying that looks don't matter in an adaptation?
Makes me think of the outrage about some dark skinned MHA character who "didn't sound black!" even though she isn't black, she's asian.
Oh and the English VA they were complaining about turned out to be black.
BTFO
You are the one who is making it about skin-tone since you are so racist that you are incapable of not seeing race nor not thinking in racist terms and concepts. The fact is that there is a well-established iconic look for Death and this show doesn't adhere to it. This among many others changes makes me think that the showrunners either don't know what they are doing or don't hold the source material in the same regard as I do. Neither makes me want to watch it.
So what is different about her that you vehemently object, anon, if not her skin tone? Are you so chicken shit you can’t even say it out loud?
And what other changes are so offensive that it proves the people behind the show fundamentally cannot understand the holy scripture, where as you who worships it day and night, does?
Episode 1
>6/10, faithful enough and Charles Dance is always good, visually probably the best effects. Alex is a bit of a noncharacter
Episode 2
>6.5/10, like Cain and Abel, more the latter but both are good. Wish Cain was a bit skinnier to be the tall skinny/short fat combo
Episode 3
>2.5/10, it's like American writers took everything they knew about Britain and threw it into an incoherent stew. Joanna Constantine is insufferably uncharismatic to be that smug, plot is mostly nonsensical
Episode 4
>3/10, Hell has no impact. Dunno why they replace Choronzon with Lucifer, but still include him. Oldest game is poorly presented, there's no rythm or jovial sinisterness of the hell club. Good John saves it, hell stuff is shit.
Episode 5
>5/10, John Dee makes it a 7, but everyone else makes it a 3. This is where I started to lose it with the constant gay/women's empowerment stuff. Got way too preachy with what's her name, the lesbian who broke up. Miss the Arkham stuff but understandable.
Episode 6
>8.5/10 it's by far the best episode. Death does a good job, honestly the least annoying of the race swap and gender swap stuff (see episode 9) and the Hob story is both comics faithful and amazingly executed
Episode 7
>5/10, kinda a nothing. Corinthian, who's already been amazing, gets to start setting up his story, but other than that it's pretty boring.
Episode 8
>3/10, the Jed stuff is just too comically heavy handed, and the Twilek nightmare is just annoyingly preachy. Start of Lucien being an annoying c**t.
Episode 9
>3.5/10, terrible episode where Dream fumbles everything and somehow Lucien needs to do stuff, and apparently all the dreams only respect Lucien and this episode can frick right off. Corinthian is 10/10
Episode 10
>3/10, they give Rose too much agency, when the entire point of Doll's House is that the endless are playing games with them, and the lesson is to cut that shit out. But this episode is everyone telling Rose she's got the power.
Overall it's a 5-6/10. Peaks with episode 6, and Dolls House is kinda crap. Both arcs are carried by their villains, John Dee and Corinthian. Doll's House had way more changes from the comics, but landed in the same place at the end, kinda surprised how they got to Daniel with Lyta. Otherwise surprisingly comics accurate. Like how they got the people in Hal's house dead on at least.
Of all the rampant gender and race swapping, Death is honestly the best and Lucien ('Lucienne') can frick off. Death obviously gets the most hate because it's high profile, but the Lucien character is completely demolished to make way for this annoying "I'm always right" c**t that makes Doll's House take a dive at the end. Rose is in the middle, they give her a bit too much "I'm in charge, I control it all" when that's really the opposite of the point of Doll's House, but it's not nearly as bad as Lucien.
Death is well done. You can bash the race part, but the actor gives it socks. Dream is honestly maybe the most boring part of the series, and that's just sad. He doesn't have the presence, the tall imposing austerity. When he talks I can't imagine him talking in the black icy speech bubbles of the comics, he just seems like a moody teenager. Desire is ok, fur suit was very odd, (read: moronic). Despair made me laugh, honestly laugh at how terrible she was. Hob is 10/10.
Lucienne was cast well, easily one of the best casting decisions in the show and I say that as someone who was reserved on that one because I couldn’t see it but it actually works well. Sounds to me you just can’t handle a (black) woman telling their boss they’re being an ass and being right, because Dream is being a dick and narrow minded, pigheaded King.
I'm going to ignore the bait... however, Dream learning that he's wrong about things, and about his own actions is the entire point of Sandman (and how he copes with it regarding Nada, Orpheus, and other things he's done). He slowly, glacially comes around to it across 80 issues, and realizes that he can't actually really come around to it, so he arranged for his own death. By making Season 1 already have this penitent Dream who's just awkwardly apologetic and cowed by people who aren't Death (which is what made issue 8 of the comics so fun, that after he ran through mortals across 7 issues, he was told off by his older sister) you don't set up a Dream that can convincingly architect his own suicide. He's supposed to be a King chained to his rules and his duties, but neither is made clear in this adaptation, and Lucien actively hurts that characterization
You can and need to show some slight character growth in a season of a TV show. He needs to be confronted to highlight his flaws so that people get that he was a bigger butthole before and is slowly changing a little, because there is no narrator telling you these things anymore, and it needs to be an external force that pushes that.
He is still very much chained to his rules and duties, he’s still being “Do As I Say” dick in the show, that does not change. All that happens is he starts to understand other people, all of which will lead to his suicide because he is still a victim of his own arrogance and past actions. He doesn’t suddenly change to a completely different and kind person when he goes “you know, delegating stuff is actually a good idea, I don’t have to unilaterally decide and run everything when it means that everything goes to shit the second I am indisposed.” It just shows he learned a little through the course of fifteen issues of the comic that the show covers. Lucienne is not hurting the characterization.
Honestly when Death was with Dream all I could think was
>Are they really brother and sister? I feel like there's some sexual tension between them
Why does Death look like her skin would smell like shit?
This show was definitely in the frick you I liked it tier
The last thread literally proved that people defending Death had never read the comic or seen the show. It is all bait
Sounds more like racists using excuses.
>Bait this obvious.
Speaking to other anons, remember when an anon after hundreds of posts finally said why the actress fit Death and used a bunch of descriptions that aren't comic Death and then backpedaled claiming to be ESL? Don't believe me? Go back and read it.
Maybe you should go re-read it because the ESL poster admits their mistake of using the wrong word, because you can sometimes make honest mistake like that, but everyone just kept harping about that one wrong word being used and ignoring everything else in the post that was still accurate because they couldn’t actually refute it. And then the thread died.
More backpedaling. Sounds like it was you and you're still butthurt.
Remember when people asked that anon to be more specific in their reasons why they thought the actress was a good fit and they constantly refused? Because to add depth in their description would require knowledge of the comic and show.
This is all trolling. Don't fall for it anons.
>What did you think?
Haven't watched all of it, not sure if I will. Found it quite mediocre, enjoyed the Hob episode and couldn't stand Constantine. I can't put my finger on why/how but I don't feel like Dream is inhuman enough.
why the everliving frick do they change dream playing his shitty game to be against Lucifer the Devil?
and the fricking corinthian? Cornered and melted in a random fricking allyway while he begs for mercy? No raging challenge? No convention of serial killers?
You didn't watch the show. These things happen
I told you homosexuals I don’t watch raceswap shit h8wax8
Classic
pozzed
I have never talked to a black woman in my life (theres no black people where I live) but this trend of depicting them in every film and show as untouchable, self entitled, big mouthed baboons is making me hate them a lot
I work with a lot of black women and lemme tell you they're pretty nice
Loved it. Overall good. If i'm nitpicking some of the pacing felt off.
Sure you did.
I saw the first ep and found it ok for what it was but I don't think I'll watch the rest, just feels rather lifeless of a show also I hate how dark everything is and I mean the actual picture not story like what with modern shows. Do they not being knowing how to shoot in dark like old Tim Burton movies are dark but I can still see what going on and I hate how all shows have to have muted colors like even more so with comic adaptations. Sandman Mystery Theater would've made a better TV series anyways also rip all DC universe references cuz Netflix.
Why the frick was it pumped with so much queer shit?
It's bizarre.
The comic was always queer. The first six issues alone has multiple gay characters. It even has, gasp, an interracial relationship.
This. The issue now is the race-swapping bullshit, courtesy of Netflix.
I will never understand why people get so upset that some roles can be cast with open ethnicity.
I will never understand why people get so upset that some viewers don't like inaccurate depictions of characters with an established visual element.
They added queer shit where there wasn't any.
Honestly, what's a good way to get rid of the shills?
only watched half, it's average. If you never read the comic you'll like it but having the comic already in my mind it made the show mid af
The biggest crime is the shitass cinematography.
It is hideously soulless.
Here's my shitty general reactions for each episode
Ep1
>this is a pretty cool start/narrative thing going
>typical mage being a dick
>that gay better fricking die for killing miss birdie
>rip kingdom
Ep2
>cain and abel? like the bible?
>rip gregory
>fates are neat
>Constantine? wait a minute is this genderbent Keanu?
>I still don't know what Corinthian is a reference to, I'm assuming biblical
Ep3
>british selena gomez?
>wow your son's a psycho, who could've guessed aside from, y'know, everyone including you
Ep4
>I thought they'd physically fight but that was actually pretty neat for a duel
>well at least the black lady got some benefit from helping this psycho
Ep5
>psycho keeps being a psycho and ruins everything
>WMAF, hot
>potion seller?
Ep6
>where the frick were you when the mage dude died and why didn't you save dream then?
>hey it's british selena gomez but from the past
>I like this immortal guy
Ep7
>unity? that sounds familiar, oh it's that girl
>serial killers know and chat with each other? where the frick are the glowies when you need 'em
>ah shit this black lady's gonna throw a coup
>poor kid getting abused
Ep8
>oh I get it, the nightmare doesn't want to be the bad guy anymore
>foster lady isn't all bad
>ah shit she's gonna die
>ah shit now the kid's fricked
>well at least the abusers are dead
Ep9
>I like stephen fry, but he seems like a serial killer
>rip glowie's gonna die
>y'know this Corinthian dude ain't that bad of a guy
Ep10
>well that wraps the cereal convention up
>that's nice that the g-grandma sacrificed herself
>so is Dream still gonna take the baby or what?
>yeah okay whatever you say black assistant lady, dream's still the king
>hey look some season 2 stuff they can expand on
Enjoyed it. I'm not one of those morons on Cinemaphile that cringes at blacks and gays. Whatever. Got me to buy the trade paperbacks to see what happens. Would recommend.