>See, Batman sir realizes Superman has a mother too, that makes him realize Superman is a regular human bean!
1. He just heard a name. Martha could be his girlfriend, sister, partner in crime, he doesn't know. Why would he immediately think of mother?
2. Batman is already aware Superman has parents because he literally says "I bet your parents taught you something different" moments before the Martha scene. So Batman never actually dehumanized Superman. The entire premise of your defense falls apart here.
Here's a much better way to defend the Martha scene:
Forget the whole name thing and humanizing Superman. Just focus on what Batman is experiencing. Someone on the ground, uttering the name of a loved with their last breath. This reminds Bruce of his father's last moment. which in turn, makes him realize he is became no different than Joe Chill.
There. I think that's better. Oh, by theway, did I mention I hate this fricking movie and Zack Snyder?
Yeah, even someone like me could offer a better context for this scene than your average Snydergay. Isn't it hilarious how low IQ they are?
Batman realizes he became or nearly became Joe Chill. He became what he promised his parents he would fight to get rid of. That's why he renews his promise later to Superman and Martha
>So Batman never actually dehumanized Superman.
"You're not a god...you were never even a man."
>Why would he immediately think of mother?
>Just focus on what Batman is experiencing. Someone on the ground, uttering the name of a loved with their last breath. This reminds Bruce of his father's last moment. which in turn, makes him realize he is became no different than Joe Chill.
Because Bruce's mother was also called Martha, which is what Thomas Wayne was whispering, that's the whole point of focusing on that moment in the opening. You mental moron, you're even dumber than the Pajeet Snyder fans
The fact that you're still talking about this 8 years later proves this movie's worth
> BvS was 8 years ago
Batman doesn't know that Martha is Superman's mother's name. His immediate reaction is to say "why did you say that name?" multiple times. He initially freezes because it's his own mother's name (and clearly someone Superman loves) which snaps him out of the frenzy, and then Lois Lane explains it to him.
It's a pretty silly premise but don't make shit up to make it seem more nonsensical than it is. The 'better way' you describe is exactly what the film is doing.
I would recommend you actually watch the movie. It's made extremely clear that Batman doesn't automatically know it's his mother, and there are literal flashbacks to Batman's parents' murder so even single-digit IQ people can get that the incident "reminds Bruce of his father's last moment"
explain why that should stop batman from murdering the unstoppable god right there
Because Batman is essentially a traumatised person who goes around being a vigilante because of his past, and over time the movie explains how he became misanthropic and lost his way, and the humanising/vulnerable moment from Superman is an extremely direct reminder of why he decided to do the whole batman thing in the first place.
Explain why someone whose entire obsessive purpose in life is driven by the death of his parents and who still has nightmares of that moment decades later would pause when an otherworldly being brings up the name of his dead mother telling him to save her? That's your question?
CinemaSins moment. It's called having characters with human thoughts and feelings.
Until that moment Bruce/ Batman saw Superman as nothing more than an uncaring, unstoppable force of nature. Although yes the execution was ham-fisted the point was to show that he's not in fact a God, but rather just a man who has incredible gifts. He still has a mother, emotions, he feels he's alive.
It's also echo'd in the Superman saves montage, where it's overplayed with the voices of people arguing who is Superman with one guy saying "What if he's not a Jesus figure or devil figure, but just a man trying to do the right thing, that we have put our preconceptions onto"
Shortly before the movie released some of the plot details were leaked and the "Martha" moment was described, and everyone here was freaking out over how kino it was and what an amazing character moment it'd be for Batman. And now it's the thing almost everyone makes fun of for being stupid.
I thought they'd reference the shared name at some point before I saw the film but didn't expect it to be a major plot point.
I assume it's so in the first place because two different sets of israelites thought "what's a typical name for a wholesome all-american wasp mother" and Martha was the obvious choice.
>wasp
she's a fricking farmer
Yes I meant as the contemporary shorthand to designate core Americans where "White" has substituted "wealthy" in the acronym, even though it's theoretically redundant.
>He just heard a name. Martha could be his girlfriend, sister, partner in crime, he doesn't know. Why would he immediately think of mother?
he didn't. that's why he asked "why did you say that name" and lois told him it's his mother.
I'm not reading the rest, I assume it's also moronic
i'm still frickin' sick that i never realized Clark and Bruce both have mothers named Martha until i saw this scene.
you can tell it blew the writer's mind as well
There's so much awful and moronic shit in this movie but the 'Martha' moment is perhaps the one thing that is genuinely creative and interesting and makes a statement about the characters that is entirely defensible. I will never understand that THIS is the primary complaint people have about BvS.
i agree. it's crazy how many great stories Snyder burned through in just two films. >Superman's origin story
>General Zodd
>Batman vs Superman
>Lex Luthor's son manipulating Bruce and Clark into fighting each other
>Doomsday
>the formation of the Justice League
>The Death and Return of Superman
>and some Darkseid and Apokolips
shit is like burning through a Spider-Man origin, Green Goblin, the Death of Gwen Stacey, Doc Ock and the Sinister Six, Venom, and Carnage in just two movies. it's insane.
For me it's the unbelievable stupidity in having the first appearance of Batman in that universe being a 'fallen' version who we're magically supposed to care about even though we never saw the good years and he's been a fricking murderous irrational butthole the entire time we saw him
You can say the same about John Wick or any movie about a guy past his prime or with an awesome past that is never shown but alluded to.
John Wick shows us real character moments with him grieving over his wife and starting to process his grief through looking after the dog. It's not an incredible drama but it's efficient and effective storytelling
We get the same in this movie with Batman, though.
Except that John Wick is a professional murderer who the audience is not supposed to look up to, nor whose movies are meant to be seen by children.
Frick the children.
he's one of the nice murderers
He was refused a Man of Steel 2 and told the next movie after Man of Steel 1 would be the set up for a Justice League movie. He was forced into condensing a lot of shit as the studio execs wanted to catch up to Marvel and get their Super Hero team movies established.
>He was forced into condensing
Snyder says this shit about every one of his projects. Maybe just tell one good story over one reasonable-length movie instead of being a rampant manchild trying to cram 10 stories into a hopelessly unfocussed and bloated 3-4hr movie.
Did you read the rest of my post?
The point is that Snyder should set out to tell a good focussed story over a movie with a sensible runtime instead of freaking out and creating 10hr monstrosities that the studios justifiably have to make him cut down. It's not a studio problem, it happens with all Zach Snyder projects and he always has the same excuses. He's just an incompetent filmmaker who can't manage his projects.
Once again did you read that guy's post?
"actually Snyder didn't have any control over the story it was all the studios forcing him to cram more stuff in" is such a moronic about-turn from Snyderpajeets and it shouldn't be dignified with a response, and it doesn't explain all the unnecessary non Justice League related stuff like the messy/excessive Lex Luthor and Middle East subplots. There's no evidence for this explanation and, yet again, it happens on virtually every Snyder project irrespective of which studio is involved.
He's not your fricked-up cokehead brother who you need to protect because you love him, he's just a shitty Hollywood director.
Read the guy's post and think very hard.
damn, it sucks that DC were on his neck like that. i'd have liked to have seen a Man of Steel 2. the first one is one of the only good DCEU movies.
WB execs didn't even want to release Wonder Woman before Justice League and Snyder was forced to fund that movie out of his own pocket.
>This reminds Bruce of his father's last moment. which in turn, makes him realize he is pretty funny post
HOWEVER
this was obviously the intent of this scene
it was just directed by a moron so it's all awkward and hilarious instead of dramatic and serious
it simply doesn't work, just like the "muh invincible son" scene, because everything is forced and artificial
what was his batplan to look down on superman had his helmet remained intact?
The eye holes are lined up fine.
Why didn't Superman simply say that Batman killing him wouldn't be in line with Western Judeo-Christian values?
We get twice as much of Bruce Wayne grieving ove twice as many people
they're lined when he's looking straight but the eyehole is so deep he has no peripheral vision whatsoever you can see that clearly in my pic
true, but if his head is titled and superman's head is just slightly in front of him he'd be able to see Superman. The helmet juts into the lower portion of his visual field less than a motorcycle helmet would
1. Because it is the name of his mother you moron. Also Martha is an older generation name.
2. He does dehumanize him you moron.
just have batman stomping him face in like an animal and then superman says if you kill me you'll be just like me and batman stops
it's just a moronic scene in general because Batman had no reason before that to just not talk with Superman and take 2 minutes to hear him out. Snyder just wanted another fight scene for the pajeets to go crazy for.
>it's just a moronic scene in general because Batman had no reason before that to just not talk with Superman and take 2 minutes to hear him out.
If you completely ignore the entire film and what it is about, that is.
It just broke his brain. He was in full rage mode & SM saying Martha caught him totally off guard, caused his PTSD to go crazy thinking of that scared little kid he was. That's all.