All the Gondorians are basically dysgenic mutts who are a far cry from the original Numenoreans. It's not a surprise Tolkien based Gondor on Byzantium.
>Saruman is le evil because...SAURON TOLD HIM TO BE! >The Ringwraiths are le evil because...SAURON TOLD THEM TO BE! >Denethor is le evil because...SAURON TOLD THEM TO BE! >The Orcs are le evil because...SARUMAN told them to be! >Sauron is le evil because...uh he just is okay
Tolkein, the master storyteller
>Sauron is le evil because...uh he just is okay
Sauron's role in the Silmarillion could easily be expanded into its own movie, there's no point in trying to jam it in to a family guy flashback
It's one of the well done tings in the books actually. Denethor fought the war valiantly for years if not decades. He used the crystal ball to gather intelligence to coordinate the defense.
Once Sauron realised he started feeding him false information of nonexistent armies etc to demoralise him.
Boromir is at the council to gather allies because Denethor realises Gondor can't win.
In the book he was blackpilled from looking into the Palantir and seeing Sauron's propaganda without understanding the context. Basically a metaphor for watching TV.
He was weak minded. He legitimately cared about Gondor and tried to use the Palantir to see what Sauron was doing but he got mind fricked. They did him dirty in the movie - in the books he's not such a dickhead.
>He was weak minded
He was stronger-minded than most, just not strong enough or endowed with enough wisdom to successfully fend off Sauron’s mind games.
The World of Men was in a trillion dollar debt, elves and the Fellowship invested all their savings (about tree fiddy) into lottery tickets and Sauron told him that he's coming to collect the debt soon.
Pretty wild that the Elves had a multi-millenium cold war going with Sauron and then just eneded up using multiple generations of men to fight a rearguard war while they abandoned the continent. They really were complete pieces of shit.
>DESTROY THE DAM, RELEASE THE RIVER
Takes on a whole new meaning in that context
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
It was ecoterrorism. Saruman invested a lot of money to develop Isengard. The increased property tax revenue was supposed to pay off the debt in 5-10 years. Instead a bunch of hippies come running in from the woods and destroy all that infrastructure. And in another 10 years they'll petition the elves for increased grant money in compensation for their historical disadvantages, spewing some bullshit about trees bear fruit only in their own time and their own way, whatever the frick that means
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
Who did Saruman borrow the money from? What was the interest rates and amortization period?
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
>It was ecoterrorism.
False. Saruman had a mind of metal and wheels he cared not for the environment. Had he not been stopped the ecosystem would have suffered.
Imagine if elves were tricked into creating the rings that created the Ringwraiths and sent human civilization into a deathspiral, or created rings for the dwarves that increased their greed and sent dwarven civilization into a doomspiral, but the three rings they got tricked into making for themselves were uncursed and pure and perfect in every way.
>I feel sad watching the elves die
Every bad thing that happened had elves either starting that shit or were deeply involved. I have more sympathy for the races that didn't have a get out of jail free card rather than the one that did.
They weren't there in the books as far as I can recall, only men of Rohan, the white knight, Aragorn, one elf and one dwarf. Elrond's sons fight for Gondor with some troops but there are many more men than elves.
such a dumb addition. a mass of them show up and just get deleted from existence and never mentioned by anyone again. the films are mediocre action adventure slop saved by great music and costume designs (and novelty factor at the time)
In fairness, Sauron took like 3000 years to be a serious threat again. Even 2000 years in, he fricked off and ran when Gandalf went to Dol Guldur the first time.
Denethor got fricked in the film. The book explains much more clearly why he went mad. In the book he's also MUCH more competent at intrigue and sees through gandalfs plans instantly.
Basically in the movies he comes across as a weakling and a mere man. The books portray him as a numenorian.
I've never understood this choice. Ok you have to film lord of the rings. There just isn't enough runtime to show everything. Lets have this scene of pippin singing that never happened in the book to waste runtime we can't afford to waste.
Boromir was treated differently, but I didnt care
Book Boromir was closer to film Boromir than his father but I think the films would have benefited by including how Boromir had been butthurt all his life about being from the line of stewards and not kings.
You should check out some Hobbit fan edits where they cut it down into one movie. I have the M4 book edit downloaded which is four hours. Still long as frick but not the eight hours the hobbit trilogy normally takes.
I just want the deleted scene where Legolas walks in on Evangeline Lily getting gangbanged by the dwarves. I don't get why they heavily implied they all took turns on her while they were hiding out in Laketown but then cut the scene
Every second of laketown was so awful it made me rethink my entire life
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
That's because it was 90% B-roll. Apparently the middle third of the second movie was supposed to be an extended sex scene with all the dwarves running a train on Tauriel. They spent the better of a month doing multiple reshoots before they realized it'd never get a PG-13 rating. Even after that, Evangeline Lily insisted they shoot again in case they decided to do a director's cut later.
These movies were so fricking bad. I kind of liked the first one until the goblin king, but it just got worse and worse after that.
totally agree and there's actually some really nice stuff in the first hobbit - rivendell, dwarf characters etc, but i turly could not stand the idea of a fricking legolas/dwarf/elf female love triangle subplot so that was it. i'm not interested in any super tight autist cuts (god bless your souls however) i just want the really heinous shit removed.
I liked Thorin, especially before the last movie. I really liked the dinner scene because the first aong was fun and the second song was solemn and out of the book. Bilbo was a good actor for the most part. The Gollum scene was probably the highlight if I ignore the moronic Goblin shit. Overall I liked the first movie well enough, but there wasnt anything good about the other 2 outside of smaug's acting
>The Gollum scene was probably the highlight
aw yeah and the moment you see bilbo spare him out of pity, that was great.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
He is a pitable creature. The ring corrupted almost everyone and gollum had it for 500 years. Even Frodo couldnt resist it in the end. Only my boy Sam was the only one to hold onto it and reject
It
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
And so begins the end of Sauron
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
Stupid fricking Disney eyes saved his life. Poor bastard
The first Hobbit movie is good, but you can tell there just wasn't enough material for 3 movies. *Maybe* 2 max since there's plenty of extra added stuff they could cut.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
Just one movie would have been enough. They managed to get a lot of good stuff in with the first animated Hobbit film
I wonder if Hackson got any pushback when he was making the movies? Surely somebody on set told him a lot of his ideas sucked. Ian McKellen breaking down and crying, with Viggo Mortensen not wanting to be in the movies at all, should have been a wakeup call to him
He did, but it was such a chaotic shoot that there was notbing anybody could do. That fat spanish frick left which caused chaos. Jackson, as moronic and flawed as he is, didnt want the project to go down in smoke. He also wanted 2 films but the studio kept interfering
>Doomscrolling Sauron's shitposts hour after hour >Can't deal with it >Gradually abandon all hope
I don't really blame Denethor, honestly. It must have been some frick-awful shit he was looking at in the Palantir. You'd be hitting demoralization levels that shouldn't even be possible. Famine turning everyone into gangly, Eugenia Cooney tier skellingtons. Filthy orcs and Haradrim running non-stop rape trains on Gondorian e-girls, etc
The last straw would be seeing Gondor completely surrounded, with the heads of the city's bravest soldiers raining down, showing that the Sauron shitposts came to pass and it's over. I'd have given up too
Gondor had an army, and several vassal lords showed up with their own soldiers as well, it just still wasn't enough and it didn't help that the evil pirate nation was harassing the coasts so a lot of those vassals had to keep a good bulk of their forces defending their homes. Aragorn uses the ghost army to scare a bunch of those pirates off to steal their ship and get to the main battle. The Elves and Dwarves and other Human nations also didn't send help because Sauron was launching armies at them up north as well. We're only shown the battle at Minas Tirith, but Sauron had a lot of military power and allies and used it to spread his enemies out rather than let them rally together against him again.
Denethor is an example that constant demoralization works even if you think your mind is strong enough to withstand the programming; it's still sinking into your subconscious changing the way you think. Just step away from the palantir, anons.
It took years of palantir indoctrination, his first son getting killed, his capital getting besieged and a grave injury to his second son for him to finally break and go mad. Compared to Theoden he was extremely strong willed.
faramir despite being like a carbon copy of him, was still a good guy that never harbored any resentment to boromir like he did with his father for playing favorites
>So he said.
And he proved true. He even said so himself that leaving the ring on the highway was easier said than done. It was in his grasp and he refused it.
Men are the easiest to corrupt and he obviously had to have more ambitions than someone like Sam. But he was Tolkien's self-insert so he couldn't have any faults.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
>But he was Tolkien's self-insert
Tolkein is a hobbit he said so himself.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
>"I am not Gandalf, being a transcendent Sub-creator in this little world. As far as any character is ‘like me’ it is Faramir – except that I lack what all my characters possess (let the psychoanalysts note!) Courage."
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
> A british officer in WW1 lacked courage
I dont believe him
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
That's just fake humility.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
>But he was Tolkien's self-insert
>But he was Tolkien's self-insert
Tolkein is a hobbit he said so himself.
>Tolkein is a hobbit he said so himself.
Lorelets, please. Remember what is written on their tombstones.
Faramir was always the best guy in that family, but he was too much like Aragorn which Denethor had a bit of a past with and resented. That's the only reason he favored his moronic jock son who just wanted to kill orcs with the boys despite being a clever man himself.
He might have gleaned that someone was claiming to be in the royal line and coming to take the throne from talking with Pippin. He did know Aragorn back in the day though, he just didn't realize who it really was then. That was the source of his disfavor towards Faramir and Gandalf.
Aragorn arroves to the field with Gondors army in the books.
Yes, he frees up those garrisoned forces along the coast after chasing off the pirates and stealing their ships. That allows him to use the ships to move those forces to Minas Tirith in time.
just like in real life civilizations rise and fall. tolkein took the history of atlantis and in this story the numorean (7 foot tall atlantean killing machines) colonized all of middle earth but then they degenerated and then they tried to invade the elves and their island kingdom sunk into the sea and all their colonies declined, so the men you see in middle earth are inhabiting the ruins of this civilization. the existing men are varying degrees of ubermench that the numoreans were, like rohirrum and pure gondoreans are like 6 and a half feet tall, but most peoples are degenerated
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
He compared them to Egypt and Rome in his letters. Because they were builders obsessed with great works
Its a dark age, like after the fall of Rome. Gondor is getting beaten back a bit more each day, its sister kingdom to the north crumbled generations ago. The Elves, who are ultimately responsible for all higher culture and advancement, are mostly gone and those that are left live isolated and mistrusted by everyone else. The Dwarves are barely clinging on, and the Hobbits want nothing to do with any of it outside of the farm and their next meal. All that's left are the "lesser men" who at their peak are like the Rohirrim, but mostly aren't much more than a few scattered villages, tribes or small towns here and there.
>He did know Aragorn back in the day though, he just didn't realize who it really was then. That was the source of his disfavor towards Faramir and Gandalf.
Is there any evidence whatsoever for this?
Its in the appendix, if I remember right. During his adventures back in the day he hung out in Rohan and Gondor under a fake name to learn about his fellow men and to become a cool hero so he can marry his elf crush. Part of that was working as a Captain in Gondor, where he was loved by everyone but the Steward's son who got pushed to 2nd place accordingly.
>He did know Aragorn back in the day though, he just didn't realize who it really was then. That was the source of his disfavor towards Faramir and Gandalf.
Is there any evidence whatsoever for this?
>Is there any evidence Denethor was aware of Aragorns existence?
he knew aragorn under another alias, he fought with gondor as a mercenary and his father treated aragorn like the son he always wanted, while denethor got neglected
>his father treated aragorn like the son he always wanted, while denethor got neglected
I find this very hard to believe and I'm going to need specifics. Denethors father wasn't an idiot. How could he not know who Aragorn is?
Aragorn just showed up after serving with Rohan for a bit, under a different name, after his family line had been living in the woods or with Elrond for generations. Being a true Numenorean chad, he was everything the people of Gondor idolized. Then he just sort of disappeared on his next adventure and didn't come back until Gondor's darkest hour.
He kind of rewrote that whole family to be much worse. Boromir is a dick from start to finish, while in the book he's just sort of short-sighted and can't handle anything much more complex than "smash orc!" Faramir is wildly worse in every way until he just sort of snaps out of it. and Denethor is specifically shot to be gross and rude, rather than stern and wise.
source.
The Lord of the Rings, Appendix A: Annals of the Kings and Rulers, I: The Númenórean Kings, (iv): "Gondor and the Heirs of Anárion", The Stewards
In story allusions to this come in a few comments Aragorn makes like not having been to Gondor in a long time and having personally known Eomer's father back in the day.
I literally posted an exact reference in the appendix that goes into it for you. He served Ecthelion under the name Thorongil and was trusted enough to be made into a significantly ranked military officer for Gondor. He led an assault on the Corsairs and fricked them up good, among other things to inspire the men of Middle Earth and put some fire back into them. This is all leading up to why he was able to be such an effective soldier, leader and ruler. He spent decades exploring and fighting and adventuring before he was ready to tackle his inheritance. Its all in the book if you're going to refuse to believe me.
>Jackson is a hack who completely fricked over Denethors character. He was wayyy more reasonable in the books
yeah, he didn't really looked down on faramir THAT much in the book, he was rather constantly seething about faramir and how he wasn't sucking his wiener like everyone else and was thinking about the greater good rather than just gondor
Wasn't it something like Boromir was what Denethor thought Gondor needed for survival while Faramir was in his eyes too soft and introspective and Faramir's birth proceeded his mother's sickness and death, making Denethor have a forever grudge against him? He really did look down on Faramir in the book from almost the start.
I mean, Boromir was a big strong warrior and the soldiers loved him, which is something Gondor needed at the time. Faramir was honestly just as good, just wiser and subtler, which Gondor needed more. Denethor's weakness was pride, though, and he preferred his thick-skulled champion of a son over the one that could make him look bad if he really tried, only realizing at the very end that he'd been an butthole and should have valued them both for the merits and abilities that exceeded him. Tragically, this is after his mental break where he loses all hope and goes mad in his grief.
This is what I think the book was doing woth Boromir's family.
It was contrasting two great philosophies. One of martial valor, honor, practicality, worldliness, embodied by Boromir and Denathor. The other of trusting fate, faith, compassion and otherworldliness, embodied by Gandalf, Aragorn and Faramir. One of the most memorable scenes from the books is when Gandalf and Denethor meet and verbally spar, defending their outlooks and how to defeat Sauron. Denethor obviously respects Gandald and sees him as a capable leader, since he allows him to command his forces, but he disagrees with his fundamental philosophy. It's also why he readily accepts Pippin as his squire. He greatly respects someone honoring a debt to their life. He respected Faramir as a son, but didn't think he could rule like Boromir could. He didn't embody the philosophy. He was a "wizards pupil" too caught up in faith. Even though his philosophy got him so far, it led him down a road to despair. He ended up wanting to burn himself, which was apparently some old pagan ritual he was following out of a twisted "honor".
The hackson movies completely removed that dynamic. I guess they didn't want all that heady philosphy stuff getting in the way. It leads to Denethor being just a power hungry, out of touch leader. But it also leads to him acting in weird, inconsistent ways. Why doe he seem to hate Gandald, but still allow him to command his forces? Why does he not want to call for aid from Rohan? Why does he seem to suddenly care about his son and city enough to go mad?
The book verson was better. But his problem was just stress from dealing with Sauron using a Palantir without getting corrupted. The guy was saving Middle Earth from an invading army for 80 years while his sons were bleeding for Gondor while Gandalf was smoking weed and Elrond was yapping off on the weakness of men. He was an ashole but there is a good reason. Also some guy from the north that could remove him for power, after all his years of sacrifices for his people, was around.
blood of numenor was spent.
he was dysgenic
All the Gondorians are basically dysgenic mutts who are a far cry from the original Numenoreans. It's not a surprise Tolkien based Gondor on Byzantium.
He was one of the purest. Probably only Aragorn or Faramir has better blood.
>ruler, drunk with power, loses touch with reality and becomes a paranoid megaschizo
it happens
It´s not paranoia if they are really out to get you though.
If i remember correctly he had a palantir and Sauron was broadcasting images of his inevitable doom 24/7 to him slowly poisoning his mind.
>Saruman is le evil because...SAURON TOLD HIM TO BE!
>The Ringwraiths are le evil because...SAURON TOLD THEM TO BE!
>Denethor is le evil because...SAURON TOLD THEM TO BE!
>The Orcs are le evil because...SARUMAN told them to be!
>Sauron is le evil because...uh he just is okay
Tolkein, the master storyteller
Akshully, they're all evil because some butthole sang off key in the barbershop quartet
You're one of those "the bugs are the good guys" people aren't you?
Calling them "people" is quite the stretch.
You're one of those "da joos be keepin da white man down n shiet" people aren't you?
>Sauron is le evil because...uh he just is okay
Sauron's role in the Silmarillion could easily be expanded into its own movie, there's no point in trying to jam it in to a family guy flashback
It's one of the well done tings in the books actually. Denethor fought the war valiantly for years if not decades. He used the crystal ball to gather intelligence to coordinate the defense.
Once Sauron realised he started feeding him false information of nonexistent armies etc to demoralise him.
Boromir is at the council to gather allies because Denethor realises Gondor can't win.
No, there was no FDA to tell him that staring into a Palantir is bad for him because Sauron usually stares back.
pride, grief, faithlessness
he fricked Boromir while he slept at night
sauron was shitposting in his discord and it drove him mad
In the book he was blackpilled from looking into the Palantir and seeing Sauron's propaganda without understanding the context. Basically a metaphor for watching TV.
>Tolkien
>Metaphor
I don't think so.
I don't know why they didn't include this in the movie. The script is so fricking terrible.
>Basically a metaphor for watching TV.
Based Tolkium
too much industry and not enough heckin green fieldarinos
He was weak minded. He legitimately cared about Gondor and tried to use the Palantir to see what Sauron was doing but he got mind fricked. They did him dirty in the movie - in the books he's not such a dickhead.
>He was weak minded
He was stronger-minded than most, just not strong enough or endowed with enough wisdom to successfully fend off Sauron’s mind games.
The World of Men was in a trillion dollar debt, elves and the Fellowship invested all their savings (about tree fiddy) into lottery tickets and Sauron told him that he's coming to collect the debt soon.
Pretty wild that the Elves had a multi-millenium cold war going with Sauron and then just eneded up using multiple generations of men to fight a rearguard war while they abandoned the continent. They really were complete pieces of shit.
You know not of which you speak
Come sail from valinor pussy ass b***h and say it to my face
I got the time
When the elves bugged out, what happened to their real estate in Lothlorien and other towns?
sold to asian investors from the east
Look I'm just saying, you could clearcut Lothlorien and put like 500 houses on that plot. Probably more if you divert the river
>DESTROY THE DAM, RELEASE THE RIVER
Takes on a whole new meaning in that context
It was ecoterrorism. Saruman invested a lot of money to develop Isengard. The increased property tax revenue was supposed to pay off the debt in 5-10 years. Instead a bunch of hippies come running in from the woods and destroy all that infrastructure. And in another 10 years they'll petition the elves for increased grant money in compensation for their historical disadvantages, spewing some bullshit about trees bear fruit only in their own time and their own way, whatever the frick that means
Who did Saruman borrow the money from? What was the interest rates and amortization period?
>It was ecoterrorism.
False. Saruman had a mind of metal and wheels he cared not for the environment. Had he not been stopped the ecosystem would have suffered.
>Lenlarry Lothlorien
The leads are weak!
Wait a minute... isn't there a group of people like that IRL?
Imagine if elves were tricked into creating the rings that created the Ringwraiths and sent human civilization into a deathspiral, or created rings for the dwarves that increased their greed and sent dwarven civilization into a doomspiral, but the three rings they got tricked into making for themselves were uncursed and pure and perfect in every way.
I feel sad watching the elves die at helms deep, thousands of years of a life spent on a defending a foreign people when they could of just bugged out
>I feel sad watching the elves die
Every bad thing that happened had elves either starting that shit or were deeply involved. I have more sympathy for the races that didn't have a get out of jail free card rather than the one that did.
Not just any elves, Noldor.
Haldir and the rest were probably silvan, not Noldor.
He's talking about things like the Silmarils. Pretty sure it weren't Vaniar or Falmari who were involved during creation of the rings either.
They weren't there in the books as far as I can recall, only men of Rohan, the white knight, Aragorn, one elf and one dwarf. Elrond's sons fight for Gondor with some troops but there are many more men than elves.
such a dumb addition. a mass of them show up and just get deleted from existence and never mentioned by anyone again. the films are mediocre action adventure slop saved by great music and costume designs (and novelty factor at the time)
In fairness, Sauron took like 3000 years to be a serious threat again. Even 2000 years in, he fricked off and ran when Gandalf went to Dol Guldur the first time.
>is that a checking burning white tree?? I’m going insane!! The west has fallen, millions must die!
Also he was planning on dueling Sauron or something which was moronic
if he had time he could hammer the tower down in a couple of years
Lack of hubris
Faramir didn't remember his father's need and bring him a kinky gift
ABANDON YOUR POSTS
SAGE
SAGE FOR YOUR LIVES
Took too much AIPAC money.
How did Tolkien so accurately predict boomer mentality?
Tolkien was a boomer...
Tolkein was born in 1892 you dumb fricking zoomer
Everyone alive before the 70s was a boomer, stupid troony
Everyone alive before the 2000s isa Boomer, you stupid Boomer
>tfw 20 year old boomer
Denethor got fricked in the film. The book explains much more clearly why he went mad. In the book he's also MUCH more competent at intrigue and sees through gandalfs plans instantly.
Basically in the movies he comes across as a weakling and a mere man. The books portray him as a numenorian.
Boromir was treated differently, but I didnt care
>pissin the niiiight awaaay
I've never understood this choice. Ok you have to film lord of the rings. There just isn't enough runtime to show everything. Lets have this scene of pippin singing that never happened in the book to waste runtime we can't afford to waste.
Book Boromir was closer to film Boromir than his father but I think the films would have benefited by including how Boromir had been butthurt all his life about being from the line of stewards and not kings.
Just be happy it wasnt made now
>my homie
>my brotha
>my kang
Alfrid Lickspittle won.
These movies were so fricking bad. I kind of liked the first one until the goblin king, but it just got worse and worse after that.
You should check out some Hobbit fan edits where they cut it down into one movie. I have the M4 book edit downloaded which is four hours. Still long as frick but not the eight hours the hobbit trilogy normally takes.
Id only watch it if it cut out the ridiculous elf dwarf romance. Way to take the steam out of Legolas and Gimli's friendship, Peter
It does, I recommend it.
>Id only watch it if it cut out the ridiculous elf dwarf romance
That elf girl was Jar Jar levels of insufferable and pointless. What the frick was Jackson thinking?
I can kinda just bear watching the hobbit when I adopt the mindset of "if PJ didn't do it they would have gotten someone much, MUCH worse.
We need an edit that adds all the songs back in, imagine the kino.
I just want the deleted scene where Legolas walks in on Evangeline Lily getting gangbanged by the dwarves. I don't get why they heavily implied they all took turns on her while they were hiding out in Laketown but then cut the scene
Every second of laketown was so awful it made me rethink my entire life
That's because it was 90% B-roll. Apparently the middle third of the second movie was supposed to be an extended sex scene with all the dwarves running a train on Tauriel. They spent the better of a month doing multiple reshoots before they realized it'd never get a PG-13 rating. Even after that, Evangeline Lily insisted they shoot again in case they decided to do a director's cut later.
>fan edits
Not canon.
i've got the maple edit haven't see it yet though
totally agree and there's actually some really nice stuff in the first hobbit - rivendell, dwarf characters etc, but i turly could not stand the idea of a fricking legolas/dwarf/elf female love triangle subplot so that was it. i'm not interested in any super tight autist cuts (god bless your souls however) i just want the really heinous shit removed.
>turly
see? unbearable
I liked Thorin, especially before the last movie. I really liked the dinner scene because the first aong was fun and the second song was solemn and out of the book. Bilbo was a good actor for the most part. The Gollum scene was probably the highlight if I ignore the moronic Goblin shit. Overall I liked the first movie well enough, but there wasnt anything good about the other 2 outside of smaug's acting
>The Gollum scene was probably the highlight
aw yeah and the moment you see bilbo spare him out of pity, that was great.
He is a pitable creature. The ring corrupted almost everyone and gollum had it for 500 years. Even Frodo couldnt resist it in the end. Only my boy Sam was the only one to hold onto it and reject
It
And so begins the end of Sauron
Stupid fricking Disney eyes saved his life. Poor bastard
The first Hobbit movie is good, but you can tell there just wasn't enough material for 3 movies. *Maybe* 2 max since there's plenty of extra added stuff they could cut.
Just one movie would have been enough. They managed to get a lot of good stuff in with the first animated Hobbit film
I wonder if Hackson got any pushback when he was making the movies? Surely somebody on set told him a lot of his ideas sucked. Ian McKellen breaking down and crying, with Viggo Mortensen not wanting to be in the movies at all, should have been a wakeup call to him
He did, but it was such a chaotic shoot that there was notbing anybody could do. That fat spanish frick left which caused chaos. Jackson, as moronic and flawed as he is, didnt want the project to go down in smoke. He also wanted 2 films but the studio kept interfering
>Doomscrolling Sauron's shitposts hour after hour
>Can't deal with it
>Gradually abandon all hope
I don't really blame Denethor, honestly. It must have been some frick-awful shit he was looking at in the Palantir. You'd be hitting demoralization levels that shouldn't even be possible. Famine turning everyone into gangly, Eugenia Cooney tier skellingtons. Filthy orcs and Haradrim running non-stop rape trains on Gondorian e-girls, etc
The last straw would be seeing Gondor completely surrounded, with the heads of the city's bravest soldiers raining down, showing that the Sauron shitposts came to pass and it's over. I'd have given up too
Where exactly were Gondors armies? Why the frick did Aragorb have to go and grab everyone to come to the defence of the city?
Gondor had an army, and several vassal lords showed up with their own soldiers as well, it just still wasn't enough and it didn't help that the evil pirate nation was harassing the coasts so a lot of those vassals had to keep a good bulk of their forces defending their homes. Aragorn uses the ghost army to scare a bunch of those pirates off to steal their ship and get to the main battle. The Elves and Dwarves and other Human nations also didn't send help because Sauron was launching armies at them up north as well. We're only shown the battle at Minas Tirith, but Sauron had a lot of military power and allies and used it to spread his enemies out rather than let them rally together against him again.
Aragorn arroves to the field with Gondors army in the books.
>Filthy orcs and Haradrim running non-stop rape trains on Gondorian e-girls
post the doujin link
Denethor is an example that constant demoralization works even if you think your mind is strong enough to withstand the programming; it's still sinking into your subconscious changing the way you think. Just step away from the palantir, anons.
It took years of palantir indoctrination, his first son getting killed, his capital getting besieged and a grave injury to his second son for him to finally break and go mad. Compared to Theoden he was extremely strong willed.
he was convinced that Gondor would run out of tomatoes and he lost his mind
>1 out of 5 are gay. Why are they mad I keep banging zoomer girls then? Clearly they have a few to spare.
faramir despite being like a carbon copy of him, was still a good guy that never harbored any resentment to boromir like he did with his father for playing favorites
>faramir despite being like a carbon copy of him
False. Denethor desired the ring. Faramir would not take the ring if he sound it on the highway
So he said.
>So he said.
And he proved true. He even said so himself that leaving the ring on the highway was easier said than done. It was in his grasp and he refused it.
And that was stupid as frick.
explain.
Men are the easiest to corrupt and he obviously had to have more ambitions than someone like Sam. But he was Tolkien's self-insert so he couldn't have any faults.
>But he was Tolkien's self-insert
Tolkein is a hobbit he said so himself.
>"I am not Gandalf, being a transcendent Sub-creator in this little world. As far as any character is ‘like me’ it is Faramir – except that I lack what all my characters possess (let the psychoanalysts note!) Courage."
> A british officer in WW1 lacked courage
I dont believe him
That's just fake humility.
>But he was Tolkien's self-insert
>Tolkein is a hobbit he said so himself.
Lorelets, please. Remember what is written on their tombstones.
Faramir was always the best guy in that family, but he was too much like Aragorn which Denethor had a bit of a past with and resented. That's the only reason he favored his moronic jock son who just wanted to kill orcs with the boys despite being a clever man himself.
>Denethor had a bit of a past with and resented
Is there any evidence Denethor was aware of Aragorns existence?
He might have gleaned that someone was claiming to be in the royal line and coming to take the throne from talking with Pippin. He did know Aragorn back in the day though, he just didn't realize who it really was then. That was the source of his disfavor towards Faramir and Gandalf.
Yes, he frees up those garrisoned forces along the coast after chasing off the pirates and stealing their ships. That allows him to use the ships to move those forces to Minas Tirith in time.
Is the setting basically a post apocalyptic setting? It seems like the human kingdoms are in total disrepair
just like in real life civilizations rise and fall. tolkein took the history of atlantis and in this story the numorean (7 foot tall atlantean killing machines) colonized all of middle earth but then they degenerated and then they tried to invade the elves and their island kingdom sunk into the sea and all their colonies declined, so the men you see in middle earth are inhabiting the ruins of this civilization. the existing men are varying degrees of ubermench that the numoreans were, like rohirrum and pure gondoreans are like 6 and a half feet tall, but most peoples are degenerated
He compared them to Egypt and Rome in his letters. Because they were builders obsessed with great works
Its a dark age, like after the fall of Rome. Gondor is getting beaten back a bit more each day, its sister kingdom to the north crumbled generations ago. The Elves, who are ultimately responsible for all higher culture and advancement, are mostly gone and those that are left live isolated and mistrusted by everyone else. The Dwarves are barely clinging on, and the Hobbits want nothing to do with any of it outside of the farm and their next meal. All that's left are the "lesser men" who at their peak are like the Rohirrim, but mostly aren't much more than a few scattered villages, tribes or small towns here and there.
Its in the appendix, if I remember right. During his adventures back in the day he hung out in Rohan and Gondor under a fake name to learn about his fellow men and to become a cool hero so he can marry his elf crush. Part of that was working as a Captain in Gondor, where he was loved by everyone but the Steward's son who got pushed to 2nd place accordingly.
>He did know Aragorn back in the day though, he just didn't realize who it really was then. That was the source of his disfavor towards Faramir and Gandalf.
Is there any evidence whatsoever for this?
Appendix A discussing “Thorongil” aka Aragorn. It was strongly implied that Denethor suspected who he really was.
>Is there any evidence Denethor was aware of Aragorns existence?
he knew aragorn under another alias, he fought with gondor as a mercenary and his father treated aragorn like the son he always wanted, while denethor got neglected
>his father treated aragorn like the son he always wanted, while denethor got neglected
I find this very hard to believe and I'm going to need specifics. Denethors father wasn't an idiot. How could he not know who Aragorn is?
Aragorn just showed up after serving with Rohan for a bit, under a different name, after his family line had been living in the woods or with Elrond for generations. Being a true Numenorean chad, he was everything the people of Gondor idolized. Then he just sort of disappeared on his next adventure and didn't come back until Gondor's darkest hour.
source.
Stewart went insane because he was the only person in Gondor with a normal name.
jej
Tolkein led generations of men to have elf-fever
Hackson being a moron
Wait until you find out he wanted Arwen at Helms Deep
Jackson is a hack who completely fricked over Denethors character. He was wayyy more reasonable in the books
He kind of rewrote that whole family to be much worse. Boromir is a dick from start to finish, while in the book he's just sort of short-sighted and can't handle anything much more complex than "smash orc!" Faramir is wildly worse in every way until he just sort of snaps out of it. and Denethor is specifically shot to be gross and rude, rather than stern and wise.
The Lord of the Rings, Appendix A: Annals of the Kings and Rulers, I: The Númenórean Kings, (iv): "Gondor and the Heirs of Anárion", The Stewards
In story allusions to this come in a few comments Aragorn makes like not having been to Gondor in a long time and having personally known Eomer's father back in the day.
Boromir was great in the flashback, too bad they cut it from the theatric version, I think Sean Bean was really pissed about that.
You're reaching. Is there a single scrap of evidence that Denethors father knew Aragorn?
I literally posted an exact reference in the appendix that goes into it for you. He served Ecthelion under the name Thorongil and was trusted enough to be made into a significantly ranked military officer for Gondor. He led an assault on the Corsairs and fricked them up good, among other things to inspire the men of Middle Earth and put some fire back into them. This is all leading up to why he was able to be such an effective soldier, leader and ruler. He spent decades exploring and fighting and adventuring before he was ready to tackle his inheritance. Its all in the book if you're going to refuse to believe me.
>Jackson is a hack who completely fricked over Denethors character. He was wayyy more reasonable in the books
yeah, he didn't really looked down on faramir THAT much in the book, he was rather constantly seething about faramir and how he wasn't sucking his wiener like everyone else and was thinking about the greater good rather than just gondor
Wasn't it something like Boromir was what Denethor thought Gondor needed for survival while Faramir was in his eyes too soft and introspective and Faramir's birth proceeded his mother's sickness and death, making Denethor have a forever grudge against him? He really did look down on Faramir in the book from almost the start.
I mean, Boromir was a big strong warrior and the soldiers loved him, which is something Gondor needed at the time. Faramir was honestly just as good, just wiser and subtler, which Gondor needed more. Denethor's weakness was pride, though, and he preferred his thick-skulled champion of a son over the one that could make him look bad if he really tried, only realizing at the very end that he'd been an butthole and should have valued them both for the merits and abilities that exceeded him. Tragically, this is after his mental break where he loses all hope and goes mad in his grief.
Meh, more like it's
>muh firstborn
Sure, he loved them both almost the same at some point but some men really are like that.
This is what I think the book was doing woth Boromir's family.
It was contrasting two great philosophies. One of martial valor, honor, practicality, worldliness, embodied by Boromir and Denathor. The other of trusting fate, faith, compassion and otherworldliness, embodied by Gandalf, Aragorn and Faramir. One of the most memorable scenes from the books is when Gandalf and Denethor meet and verbally spar, defending their outlooks and how to defeat Sauron. Denethor obviously respects Gandald and sees him as a capable leader, since he allows him to command his forces, but he disagrees with his fundamental philosophy. It's also why he readily accepts Pippin as his squire. He greatly respects someone honoring a debt to their life. He respected Faramir as a son, but didn't think he could rule like Boromir could. He didn't embody the philosophy. He was a "wizards pupil" too caught up in faith. Even though his philosophy got him so far, it led him down a road to despair. He ended up wanting to burn himself, which was apparently some old pagan ritual he was following out of a twisted "honor".
The hackson movies completely removed that dynamic. I guess they didn't want all that heady philosphy stuff getting in the way. It leads to Denethor being just a power hungry, out of touch leader. But it also leads to him acting in weird, inconsistent ways. Why doe he seem to hate Gandald, but still allow him to command his forces? Why does he not want to call for aid from Rohan? Why does he seem to suddenly care about his son and city enough to go mad?
It was weird to see how much Gondor and Rohan apparently hated each other deapite that not being at all present in the books
He was something of a scarecrow
memes aside, what a kino performance
he really was the best scarecrow
I was memeing dawg, it do be kino
THATD THE SAME ACTOR?
Holy shit he was good.
being a boomer
Sneed
The book verson was better. But his problem was just stress from dealing with Sauron using a Palantir without getting corrupted. The guy was saving Middle Earth from an invading army for 80 years while his sons were bleeding for Gondor while Gandalf was smoking weed and Elrond was yapping off on the weakness of men. He was an ashole but there is a good reason. Also some guy from the north that could remove him for power, after all his years of sacrifices for his people, was around.
>I'm frustrated
lol
lead poisoning from pewter tableware
Pecho Frio
>best son dies
>other son can't do anything right
He was just a bad father.
Faramir was a scholar and a philosopher more than a warrior. He made the best of a bad situation and saw through the rings temptation