So, what the fuck is the upside down?
>some interdemensional meme
>that shithole of a town was build on an Indian graveyard or something
Where does it take it's powers from?
So, what the fuck is the upside down? >ghostshit >demonshit >alienshit >some interdemensional meme >that shithole of a town was build on an Indian gra...
So, what the fuck is the upside down?
This phonograph "reads" a rock’s rough surface and transforms it into beautiful ambient music pic.twitter.com/PYDzYsWWf8— Surreal Videos (@SurrealVideos) March 3, 2023
it's whatever the writers who are too retarded to actually understand the Lovecraftian stories they ape want it to be.
How many times can they cram the word, "freak" into one fucking episode jesus christ the writing this season is Anaconda Malt Liquor levels of reaching
I think it's rather amusing that they keep using "freak" instead of more authentic and colorful 80s epithets like "gay."
Exactly, even the bad guys like those evil jocks can't be so bigoted as to use slurs.
they might be bad, but they arent CHUDS!
Homosapieans or homes?
No kidding lmao. moron was still common even into the 90s.
Maybe in Alabama
I think Billy's dad called him a fag once but the writers probably didn't want to deal with any possible backlash they'd get by calling someone a gay every episode.
Yeah, Joyce told Hopper Will's dad called him a fag (brushing it off, actually).
At that point I thought the show was going to be authentic instead of this watered down version of the 80's.
And using the words would actually be more respectful. Showing what they experienced rather than pretending like it never happened
>one of the writers took to twitter to complain about the show's reception: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H5d42w4ZcY4
why do you even watch it?
Because successful ad campaigns
To get upset about it.
It's the real world, but inverted
tell you A LOT about the society we live in...
I thought the weirdo whiteboi created it?
nah, the autismo started sperging once he moved to the town, its obviously something about the location
Didn't they move there because he was a sperg
just a regular sperg, didnt have all the powers before they moved there
I think he didn't make it but he did shape it.
It would have made more sense if 001 created it out of turbo psychic autismo but looks like he’s a pawn of the Mind Flayer that already existed so who knows
Place seemed pretty formless when he got shoved into it. Maybe him being thrown in caused it to change and then when Eleven connected again, it copied the actual town.
Seems likely that it was a chaotic alternate dimension. And 001 over time with his powers developing. shaped it into what it is now.
Maybe he even created the mind flayer and demigorgon
I'm thinking the subversion is supposed to be
>Mind Flayer is the big boss!
>loljk turns out Vecna was the true boss after all
it seemed clear with the timeline that the Mind Flayer came first but i dunno about hierarchy
chiral oppisite of world, but our world is bad so upside down is up good? lot to think threw
It's The Warp before the Chaos Gods got involved
you will never see a pussy
Happy pride month
I’ve got a mirror, haven’t I?
haha you're a pussy
glad you admit it, dude
I'm a huge warhammer nerd and I'm married, chud. What now?
I bet you also play World of Warcraft bro
Not after Cataclysm fucked the game into an unrecogizable all those years ago, chud.
mfw they massacred my boy Loch Modan
you aren't fooling anyone. blacks and zoomers don't have strong opinions about male dominated hobbies
Fat girls don’t count for bragging rights
I've fucked 30+ women and I met an absolute chad slaying american and english pussy left and right in Malta that was an architect and an even bigger Warhammer geek than me.
the real warhammer nerds are just history nerds
True. I just like the lore and I'm really into history and anthropology.
It's mind boggling how a few faggy Englishmen created such a kino lore. Warhammer is the happiest accident in fantasy.
Explain to me the appeal. I get that the setting is interesting but how do you enjoy it? Every book I’ve tried has been utter dogshit
It's what humanity could become. Endless exploration. It gives hope for a freer future.
It's basically the Roman empire in space.
Yes I get that the concept is cool, I’m asking how it’s enjoyable or appealing as a hobby. Hovercrafts are cool conceptually, if I had the time and space I’d maybe build one as a hobby, but if I can’t, and every book about hovercrafts sucked to read, I wouldn’t become an enthusiast as a hobby. Do you have any books you can recommend at least?
i'm not him and i've never read some cringe novel or played it, which sounds more fun, but i have spent hours just reading the wiki
not him, but fulgrim
it happens during the horus heresy when some of the orders fell to chaos and betrayed the emperor. imagine the story of the christian devil, luzifer, from being the most beautiful angel to his downfall.
it starts off pretty tame and then slowly goes batshit insane, with artists using literal shit and blood for their paintings and musicians dislocating their jaws so they can scream endlessly. near the ending you witness a gigantic orgy made out of pure screaming, shitting and cannibalism. great stuff.
if you are more into ww1+2 like stories, gaunt's ghosts. I think it was the 3rd or 4th book in the series where they have to defend and then evacuate a megacity that gets attacked by another megacity which has fallen to chaos. halfway through they realize why the enemy megacity has so many soldiers, which was already a sick reveal, only to get attacked by the literal fucking city later on and infiltrate it. headkino.
I want to get into warhammer but the stores closest to be me are full of the most repulsive looking redditors I’ve seen in my life. I live kinda close to the Mount Pleasant store which is one of the biggest in the US, maybe I’ll check it out there
>in the US
that's your problem
Just listen to Luetin09 on yt as background. Kino channel with hours of lore content.
I just read the lore and the books and play the games. The tabletopgame is such a mess of rulebooks and codices
Interdimensional, that’s it.
upside down is a bridge to the red place created by eleven when she touched the demigorgon in season 1
>Mindflayer is kind of spider-like
>Kid finds some spiders in his house and becomes a magical schizoid
Based on all the info we get as of every season so far and season 4 part 1:
>upside down existed for a long time as some kind of warp-like chaos dimension (as seen in 01's flashback's)
>Mind flayer + other creatures probably already existed by this point, mind flayer is essentially the hive mind manifestation of the upside down as a super powerful thinking entity
>001 getting thrown into the upside down led to some basic intersection with out reality
>However the big change happened when eleven contacted the demogorgon and opened the gate at the start of season 1
>at this point the upside down (or part of it) becomes a rough snapshot of our world during the exact moment the gate was opened (1983)
>The upside down is therefore some kind of chaos dimension adjacent to our own and potentially others that has a hivemind and that mimics the worlds it comes in contact with as a way to better understand them and conquer them like the mind flayer tries to
>can be understood as a kind of predatory dimension, via the mind flayer the upside down as a whole is an intelligent being that seeks to consume other realities and the entities within it
>everything else is up to what the writers want to do and what we come up with
That's my headcanon. Any issues with this?
*intersection with our reality
who knows idk
Always thought it was different dimensions not just one "upside down" but apparently i wasn't paying attention because the upside down (I think?) is the same for all creatures.
>"everything else is up to what the writers want to do and what we come up with"
yeah, pretty much this.
Pretty much what I think too. Personally, I think that the 'upside down' as we have seen it is just a small dimension. We have never seen anyone ever travel to a part of the upside down that wasn't in or near Hawkins, I'd guess that if you travel far enough you hit an edge of some kind. This would explain by none of this shit happens anywhere else, because the 'upside down' doesn't extend that far.
The upside down snapshot we see of Hawkins was created when 11 made mental contact with the demogorgon, and I think its an 'in between' step between Earth and whatever the red lightning chaos world that 11 threw 01 into. Its not actually the same place, just a bubble that links the two together.
Given recent plot revelations, I am holding judgement on what exactly the Mindflayer is until season 4 is over. There is room for us to learn a lot more about what the upside down 'really' is.
I think it's something very much like this:
>And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
When 11 sent 01 there, it was without form and he essentially became its "God," imposing form on it in the form of his own memories/grasp of the world around him. It could be that if you traveled far enough out, you'd find that pure chaos again and if you're a world-breaking psi strong enough to survive the experience, you too could shape that chaos into something. My thinking largely revolves around the concept of chaos I originally encountered in Moorecock's stories about Elric and his world. There, Chaos is "pushed back" by adventurers strong and brave enough to face the Chaos, revealing new lands born of their imaginations. Moorecock didn't always stick the landing, but some of his concepts and metaphors for creativity are surprisingly resonant and powerful.
I have the same idea. That it was a realm of pure chaos and energy. And 1 shaped it into the place it now is. And he was able because he grew in power. Both due to the energy available there to draw upon and also because he had nothing to hold him back or distract him. Several years with nothing but developing his power
Its very similar to descriptions of the of the clasical underworld or the fae realm, especially with the gates.
A realm like that probably gave rise to myths so the upside down has probably had multiple contacts with this world throughout history. Also reflects the shadow realm in faerun dnd.
The idea of a 'Predatory Universe' is so kino I need to steal it for my own uses.
it is a term sometimes used to describe the one we live in, you know. life feeds on life.
I like it.
Definitely agree on the upside down/Mindflayer stuff. Only thing I'm not clear on is whether or not it's significant that the upside down appears different from the one we know when 001 is thrown in or if it was always just an evil alternate Hawkins. Too many of aspects of the upside down have parallels with 001's philosophy for it to be coincidence imo. They really went out of their way to drive home the spider/predator motif so I'm guessing it's significant.
volume 2 when?
in exactly 1 month
I doubt the writers have even thought avout it seriously, as the show isnt reslly created woth the intent of pushing forward certain themes or allegories, its made to draw money from your wallet to netflix with high style low substance film making
This season they made it a point to reveal the upside-down is frozen at a specific point in time, so clearly they're going somewhere with it
reddit show, don't care. I stopped caring when there were Soviet soldiers somehow hiding underneath an American mall, in full uniform and everything. Stupid shit
It's a metaphor for right-wing extremism
Are there cute demon e-bois?
gnomish Kabbalah sorcery.
As above so below.
garden gnomes, every time.
>is that a spooky love craft monster in a tv show help I’m being genocided
Its the warp/maelstrom/shadow realm/etc.
Have you never played read or watched a single fantasy thing before?
no, im not a virgin
I don’t know how to tell you this OP other than it is just there because “we as the writers say so” like the rest of this abandoned Blockbuster dumpster fire
I haven't watched since season 1 and I find it hilarious that the show hasn't explained what Upside Down is after 4 seasons. lmao
>Explain the mystery long before the show is finished
It’s not a great mystery. “Who killed Laura Palmer?” is a great catalyst for a mystery, “what’s this place the writers have never bothered to define for 4 seasons” is not. We already knew what the Black Lodge was when it was introduced
>It’s not a great mystery
Nobody said it was
It's the greatest mystery of the show by far so... yes it is?
What's so great about it?
It is the premise of the whole show?
please the premise of the show is teen drama in the 80s
The post I replied to said "It’s not a great mystery" so I don't know what you're talking about
I didn’t say it was, I’m making the point that basing the show on the mystery of the place will not work well because they never spent more than five minutes on it previously
What does a definition of the upside down do for the story besides satisfy autistic plotfags on reddit? We know everything we need to know for the sake of the story
> aryan dude with insane power level gets turned into hellspawn by magic lighting in an instant he enters the hell dimension
> basic little shits in the main cast just walk there like its nothing
wow such a great writing.
Only incels get electically nuked
It's a vague plot device.
the ayyy lmaos option will be the easiest and shittiest cope, so in sure it will be that one
>be interdimensional hive mind chaos being
>send one lackey out to kill some kids
>then antagonise another kid
>mind control a 3rd kid and have him bully some kids
>kill some more kids
Why the fuck don’t they ever attack adults?
It derives pleasure out of tormenting its victims. If you were a serial killer, don't think you it would be more fun to fuck with kids who still have hopes and dreams?
>Why the fuck don’t they ever attack adults?
They do. The demogorgon rampage starts with killing a shitton of people at the lab, and the demodogs killed a shitton of soldiers and other people at the hospital. The big meat monster from season 3 dissolved a couple dozen people just to make itself, many of whom were adults.
And that is just off the top of my head. Your complaints are stupid.
Yeah, Basically, 'vecna' is aiming for teens as both a callback to Bronze age slasher flicks and also to be a little more subtle about it. Since Psychic powers seem to be based from trauma and anger, It makes sense he aims for teens and young adults since they're verifiable wells of rage, angst, and 'trauma.' I bet his goal is to gather as much fucked up people as he can, connect to them psychically, use their trauma to fuel his powers enough than he can rip back into reality to reform the world as he wishes ala Senator Armstrong style where the strong control the weak and the willing survive.
A hidden world with mysterious beings that may exist in more than the 3 dimensions we can see observe.
If you're looking for some deeper rationale, you won't find it because it's more about vibes than logic. I prefer it that way tbh because I want to switch that part of my brain off so I can escape the real world for an hour or so. Trying to make out that it makes sense would spoil it quicker than it spoiled Lost by having it not make sense in the end anyway.
Also convenient: it's in the 80s so no woke shit to think about.
>extra dimensional world
>clearly a 3 dimensional world
Writers are a bunch of pop sci brainlet retards
You think 3 dimensional beings could observe higher dimensions?
There’s no such thing as higher dimensions
There is no such thing as telekinesis or monsters, retard.
No one said there was retard
Then why an earth would you expect a scientific explanation for fantasy nonsense? Don't watch Harry Potter, it might break your feeble little mind.
I’m sorry that you are confused please go work on your reading comprehension skills I don’t feel like dumbing it down for you
Get a load of this DMTlet
You are confused about what a dimension is addict
It's an alternate dimension not extra or higher.
Who built all the buildings in the upside down world if there are no people there?
The Upside Down has a shameful history of slavery
wait they have gone through 4 seasons and still have not explained any lore?!
fucking pathetic shitty show
>The history of the Upside Down remains a mystery. Exactly how and why it came into existence, is unclear.
Now that we know vecna was just a human with psychic powers you can bet that the mindflayer is just some really old psychic dude. He made the upside down somehow and since eleven is le super badass she will destroy it at the end of s5 leaving her fate unknown (but hinted she survives)
NOOO YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND ITS BETTER IF YOU NEVER SEE THE MONSTER
IT HAS TO BE BLURRY AND APPEAR ON SCREEN FOR TWO FRAMES. AS SOON AS YOU SEE THE MONSTER ITS RUINED
unironically yes, at least for this show
every time they expand on something, it just gets shittier
You morons are still watching this trash after the monster in season 1 was revealed to be a retarded gay plant-headed nothing-burger?
lmao fucking window lickers
It's supposed to be badly written. Same for the acting. You wouldn't get it
Good things about S4
Monster seems cool so far and the theme is dark, especially compared to the Neon cotton candy that was S3.
Bad things: holy shit get rid of some characters!
Teen drama is bullshit filler and as I get older I find it completely uninteresting and boring.
That's all, only seen 2 episodes.
i appreciate this seasons tone much more than 2 and 3 thats for sure. also thought they did pretty good on the new characters. they trim down the screen time for them so dont worry.
Only as far as we know. It may be that he had a higher potential which he achieved over time.
Or maybe the upside down allowed him more power potential
Shut up incel
>things there's a difference between sci-fi and fantasy
There are thematic differences between the genres, yes.
Lol I wasn't even referring to genre when I said it. What kind of retard would expect there to be a rational explanation?
Hilarious how that monster was the coolest one so far conceptually and could've been the most terrifying one and they did absolutely nothing with him
He's still around. Vecna will help the kids fight him after Steve gives him a speech that restores Vecna's faith in humanity, after which he brings all his victims back to life
11 was more powerful but 1 may have grown in power during his time in the upside down.
11 still has a higher power potential but hasn't reached her full potential yet. She might have now though after the recent experimentation.
>MONSTERS AND PSYCHIC ABILITIES SHOULD LINE UP WITH THE FACTS OF SCIENCE AS WE KNOW THEM
Only possible explanation is maybe the mind flayer kept him in check so he only now could start making moves
How many times are you going to make this thread
until we reach a reasonable consensus
So time travel films aren't sci-fi or do you think time travel is real?
Please don't think I am defending the writing. I fully agree its shit. Just offering explanations for it. Which are also kinda weak
That's the point. It's not real. It's pseudo-science.
I've already been clear that I wasn't actually referring to the genre but even then they are still closely related.
It's the warp. Slaughter of 10 psykers created a new smol slaanesh (mind flayer), a demon prince (vecna), and demons (demigorgons)
good posts. it makes the show kind of tolerable if you use this headcanon. also, it means an uncontrolled retard psycher like eleven needs to be neutralized
11 is the emps at this point. Killing her might make another baby chaos god
>11 is the emps at this point
she's a retard who can only do low level parlor tricks. the emperor at the moment is some asiatic billionaire who has to fake is own death every so often
She's kinda weak until she has to be stronger. Then she's suddenly god tier
Maybe he takes a part of them somehow to the upside down. Ie soul or watev.
powered by netflix dollars
If you say so. Not debating semantics with a retard.
Or alternatively. 1 got more powerful and eventually was able to create life in some form.
He started small making the bats and the demogorgons. And eventually he made the mind flayer.
But the mind flayer grew exponentially and became too powerful and uncontrollable. It ended up overpowering him. This is why he wasn't active until now.
After the mind flayers defeat he was able to overcome it and become active
Yeah I agree
But what if the Mindflayer was a manifestation of the Chaos's own consciousness reacting to the presence of an "intruder?" If you want to put it in DnD terms, basically a Chaotic Evil "demon" at war with a Lawful Evil "devil" imposing order on its precious Chaos?
your greentexts can all be true depending on who you ask. if hell is a physical place(which it isn't) then it must be dimensional and whatever lurks there is an ET
>I don't get it. Can the franchise spoonfeed me background instead of making a compelling narrative?
Honest to god, I hope you got vaccinated.
It's literally nothing because they don't know what to do with it
it's the original home world/realm of garden gnomes.
Nice try but I have a sense of irony kek
No. Debating the semantics of semantics is ironic.
alternate dimension or some shit
its Tel Aviv
I wonder if there's a fundamental difference between the parts of the Upside Down that mirror a devastated Hawkins and the areas that are red, blasted wastelands. Vecna asked Max how she managed to "get in there" when he confronted her in the ruins of his old home, which implies that it's an area that's separate from the "normal" Upside Down. It's also worth noting that 001 got sent directly to crimson lightning land through the gate, unlike all of the other gates we've seen.
My best guess is that it’s a satanic D&D dimension
Vecna modeled the upside down to look like Hawkins and created the mindflayer and all the other creatures. Now shut the fuck up you fags
Vecna is just some bum who randomly stumbled upon it, obviously the Mindflayer runs this shit
A galaxy far far away, its actually hell
from your cum stained bed sheets
So so far it seems 001 was the original magic power kid. Yet they never explain how. Which means something got into him. His parents don't have powers. Did his mother have an affair like rose Mary's baby style. Was 001 randomly picked. Was he born.
Because it seems that the upside down version of our world is a specific date in time. Not timeless. Or that version. Which could point to the upside down being a tiny part of a larger world where the living things we see are small parts of a galactic size time and physic warping reality
Question really is how. 001 was the first but no deep enough lore on how. Spiders didn't give him power. Something did.
I don't think anything *gave* him power, he was just born psychic/telekinetic like the other kids were.
Why can't the upside down just exist? why must it be "solved"?
We don't know what the purpose of our universe is either and yet we keep on living
Flaxxan dimension after Robot went schizo and killed everyobe
something with garden gnomes
So does the Mindflayer know that fucker is using his power to juice up and kill children in the real world?
well? did it work???
commies made it
its the plane of shadow straight out of DnD, a parallel plane to the material plane we exist on.
its generally a dark empty mildly evil version of the real world that usually only accessible with magic despite being "very close" usually has copies or mirror versions features of the real world but not always 100% accurate. in DnD its usually only sparsely populated with random undead and entities with the power to travel to it.
Unironically, why was 2 the worst season? I dunno how I feel about 4, but I know for sure my ranking is 1>3>2. 2 just felt bad to me. Am I crazy?
i think 3 is the worst even though 2 had almost the exact same story beats as 1
3 was just more interesting to me. Especially since 2 had really weird pacing issues. Especially the episode where Eleven finds her sister which breaks so much of the pacing.
It's the world of Trump had a second term...
It's just an empty hellscape of molten rock when she first casts 001 into it, so either it was some primordial alternate dimension connected to the power they have, that existed previously, or she created it at that moment.
She also seems to have molded it into a copy of the real world when she opened the portal again in the first season (given that its a snapshot of Hawkins as it existed back then instead of running parallel at the same time), so she certainly seems to have huge influence over it, if not outright made it herself.
>She also seems to have molded it into a copy of the real world when she opened the portal again
Or Vecna made the "snapshot" when she opened the portal again as a way to somehow get his fingers back into the real world
guessing she will have to kill herself to close it for good.
They wouls never. The writers are obsessed with characters growing and healing, and everything being a metaphor.
Eleven killing herself would fly directly into the face of the ethos of the show. Only side characters are going to die.
>tfw we're another dimension's upside-down and that place is heaven compared this our world
Hey bros how do you feel about Millie Bobby Brown having made more money at 18 years old than what you and your entire family will ever spend? Does it make you seethe and cope?