so why exactly wouldn't black route be doable?
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so why exactly wouldn't black route be doable?
so why exactly wouldn't black route be doable?
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Unnecessary, way too long, not even safer.
If the fat man made a world map that bad you homosexuals would never let him hear the end of it.
I've already forgiven the fat man for 3 Hobbits movies, as he brought us Lord of the Rings, and also, Elrond look pretty bad ass in the Hobbits film, sooo much better than that limpwrist in Rings of Power.
pretty sure he means grrm not peter
Oh, the fat coomer, frick that guy, the balls on that b***h to try and start beef with JK Rowlings when he couldn't fricking FINISH.
Westeros is literally just Britain with Ireland upsidedown beneath it.
how is the map bad?
Somewhat agree. I've always thought mordor surrounded by those box mountains looked stupid.
I know the excuse is probably "well God's changed the landscape blah blah".. it's a cop out in my books.
>those box mountains looked stupid.
>it's a cop out in my books.
Tell me about the glory of Rome.
>I know the excuse is probably "well God's changed the landscape blah blah".. it's a cop out in my books.
It's fantasy fiction with magic, which is the ultimate cop opt. What do you expect?
It's the Carpathian basin dumbass. Middle-earth is ice age Europe. The Misty Mountains are the Scandes, the White Mountains are the Alps, Arnor is Doggerland.
>Weird jagged coastline. Who designed this, an alien?
kek
He won an award for it, too.
So um, where is this place?
the mythical chud homeland
They formed because of oceanic plates. Mordor is far inland. Tolkein wasnt aiming for realistic, it was just an autism project second to his language wankery
Mordor is no further inland than the Balkans you moron.
Indeed, Mordor is Romania. We should find the ruins of the Black Gate right above where the Danube crosses those mountains
75% of Middle Earth is "here be Trolls, here be Dragons, here by Orcs by the frickload, here be Easterlings".
And the Ring is super-effective on regular humans, so going through civilized human areas is bad, it's filled with Mordor spies and people who would grabble the Ring. They had no good options, they just took the least awful one.
>75% of Middle Earth is "here be Trolls, here be Dragons, here by Orcs by the frickload, here be Easterlings".
that must have a pretty adverse effect on quarterly GDP growth
It was the same shit yesterday, probably the day before. He just does it out of loneliness.
yes but i feel like there's more to discuss
like why couldn't they take the grey route instead? it's on sea mostly and no bad guys for ring to influence
forgot pic
They would need somewhere to stop for supplies several times and there isb't many.
Risky choice trying to navigate those ocean letters head-on instead of going around.
Because of pirates, storms, sea monsters, etc. It is too risky to take the Ring on a ship. If the ship were to sink, the Ring is lost, and UNLESS the Ring is destroyed, Sauron wins. If it just sits at the bottom of the ocean, Sauron wins, even if he can never get it back (and it's quite possible that he COULD get it back even from the bottom of the sea).
What's in the Brown Land?
Look, all these routes show that you clearly don't understand how physically impassable the mountains surrounding Mordor really are. Morannon and Cirith Ungol are literally it unless you go ALL the way around to the East and then back West through Nurn. Nurn: Mordor's Breadbasket - most densely popoulated part of Mordor. You're not sneaking through there easily.
People climb mountains all the time, you know.
yes, singular mountains, or they go through mountain passes
You can't just climb over an entire mountain range to get to the other side, that's like trying to go across the worst of the Himalayas on foot, which nobody does or did
Corsairs of Umbar doesn't ring a bell?
Ghosts scared them and Aragoon took their shits
dunno, dont worry tho, I'll shitpost to bump your thread
Why can't we have Lord of the Rings threads? Cause remembering how there used to be good cinema threatens the profits of goyslop streamers?
>good cinema
Then why is the thread about how the story should have been different? As if OP has found a plot hole or three with his clever ms paintery. "Hurr durr, take a different path!" Well actually, that's a Book problem, so take your nonsense to Cinemaphile.
most of these threads nowadays is just "pretending to be moronic" or bait
The orcs would've already slaughtered all of mankind by the time they get to mordor
i don't think Orks have enough resources to slaughter all of mankind. They don't have the orks to fully control Mordor's border from hobbits sneaking in
Look at the map. if Minath Tirith falls ( in the red circle), how the hell do orks control the rest of the Middle Earth (the green circle)? There are still dwarves in the Iron hills and in the lonely mountain. People can regroup there, unite with the dwarves and have another chance against orkish forces. Plus with Saruman defeated and ents joining forces - humans have a big chance, because they have no one threatening their back and the reinforcment from the nature itself.
you are missing Sauron's other Assets such as
Dol Guldur in Mirkwook (black)
the massive lands of Rhun (orange)
Khand horsemen (pink)
the Haradrim (red)
the corsairs of Umbar controlling the coasts (black)
Isengard of course (white)
Isengard's Dunlending wildmen (brown)
the hordes of goblins inhabiting the Misty Mountains, Gundabad, and the Witch King's old realm which I didn't even show (gray)
>i don't think Orks have enough resources to slaughter all of mankind.
They didn't need to. Most tribes of men were in the service of Sauron, or at least under his influence. The free peoples were scattered and, aside from Gondor, their realms were not populous.
>They don't have the orks to fully control Mordor's border from hobbits sneaking in
They had plenty of orcs for that, if they'd been deployed properly. Sauron didn't expect anyone to try what they were doing, and never expected anyone to get past Shelob, anyway, so the guard was relatively light.
> how the hell do orks control the rest of the Middle Earth (the green circle)?
Most of that area is largely depopulated.
>There are still dwarves in the Iron hills and in the lonely mountain. People can regroup there, unite with the dwarves and have another chance against orkish forces
Sauron sent a horde of Easterlings to attack there at the same time as the final battle, and probably would have won if the ring hadn't been destroyed.
>Plus with Saruman defeated and ents joining forces - humans have a big chance, because they have no one threatening their back and the reinforcment from the nature itself.
None of that had happened yet when the choice of route was made. By then time Saruman was defeated, Frodo and Sam had already left the Fellowship and headed east with Gollum.
where the frick are people in middle earth
never made any sense
the areas that are populated at the coastal areas of Gondor, which we don't really see. Aragorn and company travel through them after the dead mountain stuff and pick up some reinforcements for gondor but the area isn't really that well descirbed but it is probably safe to assume that the whole coast between the Isen and Anduin is populated.
We don't see the southern coastal part of Eriador outside of knowing the Grey Havens or why they aren't populated. The Dunlanders being primitive seems to imply the area isn't though
Arnor faced a population collapse with the Dunedain becoming a mobile people and onyl settlements like Bree remaining. Possibly the population drifted to Gondor or a few other settlements
Gondor also had a large population decline with losing Ithilien and stuff
the northern stretch of the Anduin is populated being that Bear-guy becomes a chief among those people and Gollum was eating children there
What you have to remember is that by the time of the events of LOTR, the late 3rd age, Middle Earth has been on a slow and steady decline for THOUSANDS of years. It's a world that lives in the pale shadow of a long-lost golden age, and the forces of evil and darkness are sp read far and wide, ranging far from the lands they usually kept themselves to, feeling emboldened and attacking further and further south, and into lands that were once safe.
So nobody is going out and building new, glorious cities. Or even new small villages or hamlets, because you're basically just asking to be raped by marauding orcs or bandits or trolls or worse. Everybody therefor is contained in a few major population centers - and even those are dwindling.
In the North, the Witch King of Angmar terrorized what remained of the people of Arnor - whose kingdom once an ally to Gondor was ravaged by plagues and other such calamities long in the past and collapsed.
Magic is fading out of the world. The elves are diminishing and going west. The Dwarves, as ever, just sit underground in their crumbling once-great halls dreaming of past glories. Men have been in decline with rulership passing to increasingly less and less worthy "Kings" if you can even call them that.
Tolkien was inspired by what he thought western europe would have been like for those who lived centuries after the Romans had left.
This idea that all around them were the ruins of a clearly better time, a more advanced and civilized time. People who could build things that could no longer be built. A world diminishing towards its twilight, every day becoming more evil, more desolate, and the people more isolated and regressive.
There's not much reason for your average person to undertake a massive journey across these open dangerous lands. Most people would just be born, live, and die in whatever small lands their people managed to control.
1. Dragons
2. Easterlings
3. It is impossible to cross the mountains into Mordor a that point
4. You're gonna sneak right past Barad Dur? Really? You're being moronic on purpose, aren't you?
>going near the lands of Rhun
Basically asking for some Mongolian type Sauron-controlled horse-riders to come up on them and kill their asses easy. They would need some Rohirrum for protection but that would just attract more attention so it would be fricked regardless.
I asked ChatGPT about that road (repost)
If the characters in "The Lord of the Rings" had followed the path marked by the black line on the map, the story would have changed significantly. Here is a description of how events might have unfolded:
The Beginning in Rivendell:
The Fellowship of the Ring begins their journey in Rivendell as in the original story.
North to the Misty Mountains:
Instead of heading south through Moria, the group travels north, following a longer and potentially more dangerous route.
They would cross the Misty Mountains via a northern pass, possibly encountering trolls or goblins.
The Trollshaws and Angmar:
By traveling further north, they would pass near the Trollshaws, facing more trolls and other creatures.
They might approach the region of Angmar, the former seat of the Witch-king, increasing the danger due to residual dark forces.
The Forodwaith Plain and Ered Mithrin (Grey Mountains):
They would traverse the frigid Forodwaith plain, facing extreme weather and possible attacks from wargs or wild creatures.
The Grey Mountains are home to dragons and other threats, complicating their journey further.
Mirkwood:
Upon reaching Mirkwood, they would have to cross a vast, dark forest filled with giant spiders and other dangers.
The route might divert towards the Old Forest, where they would face mysterious natural forces.
Esgaroth and Erebor:
They would pass near Esgaroth (Lake-town) and Erebor (the Lonely Mountain), possibly interacting with the Dwarves and Men of the Lake.
The Iron Hills:
They might seek aid from the Dwarves of the Iron Hills, led by Dáin II Ironfoot, to resupply or find shelter.
Detour East of Rhovanion:
They would continue east, passing near the Sea of Rhûn, a largely unexplored and unknown region.
(continues)
(continues)
The Rhûn Desert:
They would have to cross the vast Rhûn desert, facing harsh conditions and possible attacks from the Easterling tribes.
Arriving at Mordor:
Finally, they would reach Mordor from an unusual direction, possibly facing less vigilance in that less guarded part of Sauron's realm.
However, the journey's difficulties and the lack of nearby allies could make the mission even more dangerous.
Possible Consequences:
Greater Danger and Exhaustion: The longer, more perilous journey could more quickly exhaust the Fellowship of the Ring.
New Alliances: They might forge new alliances with the Dwarves of the Iron Hills and the Men of Lake-town.
Less Vigilance: Approaching Mordor from an unexpected direction could allow for a less guarded entry, though still dangerous.
Impact on Major Battles: The detour could affect the major battles in Gondor and Rohan, as members of the Fellowship would not be present to directly influence the events.
In summary, following the route marked by the black line would have created a much more arduous and risky journey, with significant changes in the narrative and possible alternative outcomes.
theres dragons in the gray mountains still? I thought the ring could be destoyed by a dragon as well as mount doom. Why not just go to one of those gray mountain dragons to desroy it then?
not all dragons were fire breathing, I think smaug was meant to be the last of them, or at least the last of that size and power.
>I thought the ring could be destoyed by a dragon as well as mount doom.
Several of the Dwarven rings of power were destroyed by dragonfire but Gandalf specifically says that not even the flame of Ancalagon the Black could destroy the one ring. Ancalagon being the biggest dragon ever and Morgoth's secret doomsday weapon with which he sought to undo creation.
ancalagon the black being taken out by elendil on a flying ship is the most epic thing in fantasy
Also an eagle whose wingspan was measured in leagues.
earendil* woops
For me it's between Fingolfin dueling Morgoth, and Hurin being defeated by trolls.
>There as the sun westered on the sixth day, and the shadow of Ered
Wethrin grew dark, Huor fell pierced with a venomed arrow in his eye, and all
the valiant Men of Hador were slain about him in a heap; and the Ores hewed
their heads and piled them as a mound of gold in the sunset. Last of all Hurin stood alone. Then he cast aside his shield, and wielded an axe two-handed; and it is sung that the axe smoked in the black blood of the troll-guard of Gothmog until it withered, and each time that he slew Hurin cried: ‘Aure entuluva! Day shall come again!’ Seventy times he uttered that cry
You can literally hear the trumpets blaring and his voice shouting each time he raised his axe.
If memory serves, they also say that a smith more skilled than Sauron could have also destroyed the ring, but there weren't any in Middle-Earth. I suppose they could have shipped the ring to Valinor and ask the smith Valar (fricked if I can remember his name) to destroy it, but I guess Gandalf was under orders to keep this shit contained in Middle-Earth.
If Feanor weren't dead he could have figured out a way to undo it. Then afterwards he could have remade the one ring but better. The setting's Hephaestus analogue, the literal god of smithing, wasn't half as good at arts and crafts as Feanor was.
It was specifically stated during the Council of Elrond (in the book at least) that the Valar wouldn't accept the ring, even if it were somehow able to reach them.
What a bunch of jerks. Completely unwilling to take responsibility for one of their own fricking things up, and only send 5 extremely gimped dudes as assistance.
Ya should have read the eleventybillion worded TOS.
The Istari were Maiar, same as Sauron.
Yeah but they were intentionally gimped by having to take the form of a man, greatly limiting their powers. They were explicitly forbidden to actually assblast Sauron and instead just manipulated a bunch of men to their deaths to deal with a mess Valar left behind.
kek, a clever setup of if-questions completely btfo the small mind of a typical Cinemaphile poster.
>only this volcano will destroy the ring! Nothing else will do!
How did they figure this? Cant gandalf the gay use magic to spawn a mini volcano or something? Or even just a hot bowl of magma? Or just shoot the ring into space? How did they figure the volcano would even work, did sauron say "hey make sure you dont throw my magic ring into this specific volcano! Ill be really really mad!!!" homosexual ass story written by a dude who had the audacity to shit talk other writers works. Snobby ass homie with a dumbass story
Rebbit
Yeah lotr is pretty reddit
takes 10 gorillion years, filled with humans that could be affected by the ring (not to mention the dragons or whatever), generally just not a better option than the canon path
It's a symbolic thing, the ring has to be destroyed exactly where it was created. No other fire, not even the dragon-fire of Ancalagon, could have harmed it. The elves were able to figure out the Mt Doom thing through both basic logic (it's hot enough to forge the ring = it's hot enough to melt the ring) and an understanding of magical principles.
Also, they couldn't send it into space because that would've just made Sauron permanently unkillable. Congratulations, you've sent the lich's phylactery somewhere nobody can ever find it, all the while he's conquering the world.
homosexual ass moron.
The older I get, the more depressing it is to watch Lord of the Rings, even though it's still one of the best things to watch by far. Gollum now reminds me of the addicts I see on the streets. I could never forget while orcs are on screen that they were elves tortured and mutilated into becoming orcs -- how many elves that we saw fighting in the army of men and elves in the prolog ended up being twisted into orcs? Frodo couldn't throw away the ring in the end, Gollum has to fall into Mount Doom -- so in the end, it was a triumph of chance over evil.
Oh, both the movie horses that Viggo brought a few years ago are now dead, and it just reminded me that Long Cat and Ceiling Cat is also dead. Nothing Gold Can Stay. (and they probably don't let school kids read Robert Frost anymore either)
>Caring about elves
sounds like you're determined to very everything in a negative light and focus on the badness while minimized or discounting anything good.
>how many elves that we saw fighting in the army of men and elves in the prolog ended up being twisted into orcs?
None. Morgoth is the one who did that. Any orcs born after the First Age probably reproduced through more regular means. There were not nearly enough elves in Middle Earth in the 2nd and 3rd ages to supplement the huge orc armies that Sauron had.
>how many elves that we saw fighting in the army of men and elves in the prolog ended up being twisted into orcs?
That happened during the First Age when the god characters physically walked around and airy fairy magic shit leaked out of their buttholes and did creation shit and that was when sauron's boss mutilated the first elves into orcs. It wasn't possible later on and sauron certainly didn't have the same power as his master at the apex of the latter's power.
That whole part of the story is kinda horrifying. Back when the elves awoke to only starlight and lived near the lake and every so often one would be snatched away from the tribe into the darkness by some shadow, screaming and never to be seen again.
I know it sounds gay but I always felt kinda horrible for the orcs, especially the First Age ones - imagine still remembering how you were once a pure and beautiful elf, yet understanding that you've been ruined completely beyond repair and can never, ever reverse that.
...and why did their God allow their ruination? Did he who made the lamb also made the tiger? The orcs are seriously disturbing to me not just orcs can kill but people can become orcs. So they don't get to go to elf heaven when they die then?
People can't become orcs. The captured first elves were twisted into the first orcs. After that it was just orc buttsex babies from then on, no more orcification.
No need to feel bad about them. Orcs are scum, they enjoy being evil and only seek to bring death and destructon into the world so it's only fair to exterminate them without remorse.
this is something every feminist and coomer can relate to.
>i discovered the passage of time oh no feels bad man
shut the frick up
Green isn’t even an accurate line. Sam and Frodo skirted the Morgai northwards upon entering Mordor. At the crossroads before Udun they headed east until they were directly north of Orodruin and then headed south to it across the plain of Gorgoroth.
Besides the difficulty, the time would've been the problem:
There was a time limit. Sauron was creating a massive army that was going to invade everywhere, ring or no ring regardless.
The fellowship didn't have time to take the extra long dangerous route through the dark north and unknown eastern areas where they were all obvious foreigners.
>just go past Mt. Gundabad,which is more full of Orcs than Moria
>just skirt along the entire border of Rhun which is allied to Sauron
>just somehow cross right over the middle of the Ash Mountains which were created to be impassible
Oh and like passing in front of Minas Morgul and through the Barrow-downs wasn't enough of an issue let's just go straight through the entirety of Angmar. Also the Forodwaith was full of dragons and above that was Udun which was full of Balrogs even after the Valar tried to purge it. And the only friendly stop on this whole route, Erebor, was actively under siege by Orcs.
>Forodwaith
Is also the name of the men that live there. Basically eskimos. Wouldn't help anything, would probably kill them. Just found this out today when yt was playing crap in the background.
Are these movies worth watching
All these threads do is make me realize that Middle Earth would be a nightmarish, hellish place to live. It's 99% populated by evil, hostile beings which are spreading exponentially with all good and noble societies vastly overwhelmed governed by leaders demoralized and past caring. It's a true wonder that the Shire stayed hidden and insulated from it all for so long really.
>It's 99% populated by evil, hostile beings which are spreading exponentially with all good and noble societies vastly overwhelmed governed by leaders demoralized and past caring
Sorry to break it to you, but you're living this now. Cept the only non-shit places are very quickly turning shitty as well.
At least in ME you could frick off into the forest and there's the faint hope that one day, something will be done to fix things since you have proof that the good divine actually exists across the sea and if shit got really bad they would come to the rescue.
We are not as lucky.
works on my machine
I know, it got so bad I was on /misc/ again after not having been there for months, then after a week or two, it's so bad I'm just immersing myself in escapism, I see the problem everytime I go outside, hostile aliens. I actually like diversity when it's functional, but what's taking over now isn't functional and it's not diversity. The only upside is I have largely stopped eating fast food, stopped buying snacks at 7/11.
The world is objectively getting better all the time. You have rotted your brain with too much internet
>It's 99% populated by evil, hostile beings which are spreading exponentially with all good and noble societies vastly overwhelmed governed by leaders demoralized and past caring.
Anon....
That’s this world, and Israel is Mordor and Blackrock is like the gates or the towers or something
You know the Russians actually published a Lord of the Rings fanfic in the 90s where they were the orcs and they were the good guys....
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Last_Ringbearer
//Macy Halford, in The New Yorker, writes that The Last Ringbearer retells The Lord of the Rings "from the perspective of the bad guys, written by a Russian paleontologist in the late nineties and wildly popular in Russia".[4] The book was written in the context of other Russian reinterpretations of Tolkien's works, such as Natalia Vasilyeva and Natalia Nekrasova's The Black Book of Arda [ru], which treats Melkor as good and the Valar and Eru Ilúvatar as tyrannical rulers.[5][6]//
Much rip-roasting was had over this in the /uhg/ thread at /misc/ at the outbreak of war. Remember that scene where Sam goes to rescue Frodo and the orcs started fighting over loot>
same reason they didn't ride the eagles
Everything north of Bree was infested by trolls and orcs, god knows what kind of crazy shit was further north (vampires, werewolves, balrogs etc), Bara Dur is like the most evil place after Mordor, the Grey Mountains and north are full of dragons and the Lonely Mountain and the surrounding region is being besieged by orcs and Easterlings.
Did you, like, ignore the whole part that it was decided in Rivendell who the ring bearer shall be? In-story it was never meant to be Frodo or any Hobbit for that matter.
People are ignoring tons of plot details and just assuming frodo left bag end with the sole goal of reaching Mt Doom
how about this one?
you don't remember they tried going through the High Pass and the mountain shat all over them so much they had to go south into Moria?
should have just used a high pass filter
jej
Badum psh
>passes the brown lands
Better pack hundreds of lembas bread and not touch any of the streetfood.
The back of mordor was endless farmfields worked by slavs and their slavemasters who supply the orc armies of sauron.
They would have a hard time sneaking trough there too.
>worked by slavs
slaves, but it's the same.
all that empty space between the Ash Mountains and the Sea of Rhun and behind Mordor is lamds patrolled heavily by Rhun and Variags of Khand which meant wide open hard to conceal in fields patrolled by hordes of horsemen
Red route, but then splitting off into white route when possible probably was Gandalf's original plan
Gandalf's original probably involved getting Gondor to help them through the Gate (or Minas Tirith) after they fell in line behind Aragorn.
I sincerely truly doubt that, Gandalf is not an idiot, he would have known that Gondor stood exactly 0 chance of getting through the black gate and even less than 0 chance of letting the One Ring get through it undetected
In fact Gandalf was very much aware of the fact that Sauron believed the One Ring was going to Gondor, which helped with the deception but only if you don't fukkin bring the One Ring to GONDOR
Going around the top makes sense if you're secure Sauron is occupied fricking with Gondor too much to look into his own backyard
Bilbo wrote a book about his adventures. What would Frodo even write? It was a quiet journey. Didn't see anyone for months!
why didn't Gandald just invent Uber and drive to Mordor???
all these paths are ignoring the fact that it would have doubled the journey's length and Sauron and Saruman would have curb stomped Rohan and Gondor
Fake argument. The red path has them going through mountains which takes 10x longer than flatlands of the same distance.
Southern land route definitely the best
sailing down the river makes up for any time lost in the mountains
That's too exposed to Saruman and his spies. That's why they were trying to go over the mountains at Rivendell and stay in forests.
the southern land route that takes them through miles of wildmen and Dunlending territory with no friendly settlements until well into Gondor lands?
did you forget that they were headed to rivendell for the council of elrond? and the frodo was supposed to go home afterwards?
Okay now what
Gold path
Sam didn't take nearly enough Spice with him in his little seasoning box to be able to even dream of perceiving the Golden Path.
Couldn’t huff some of that elven spice in rivendell?
that trek across gondor would still take a long time
with the issues of of the fellowship being reported and sauron getting word
going through civilized human territory that long not would be worth the risk and you are still tempting saruman probably by taking the isen
Going through Minas Tirith is too risky because Denethor will take the Ring. Also it doesn’t fix the biggest flaw of sneaking into Mordor since the Morgul Pass and Cirith Ungol are both too well guarded. Frodo and Sam only got through because the Orcs of Cirith Ungol and Morgul somehow slaughtered each other down to like five survivors.
to be fair, we dont know what the fellowships original plan for getting into mordor was. most likely they would take their chances with ungol rather than the black gate
>somehow
Orcs hate each other and are greedy. They have to communicate in Common because their languages are so disparate. They barely need an excuse to slaughter each other in the first place and only one group was going to get credit for bringing mithril to Sauron.
It’s not the fight that’s implausible, it’s that over a hundred orcs almost exactly cancelled each other out and left the entire fortress virtually empty.
Sam was invisible and had Sting I'm sure he helped plenty.
Enedwaith as a whole is filled with wildmen
I think the issue is that they're being chased by dudes on horse back so being on flat lands would make it really easy to catch them
It also conceals them. They'd be spotted too easily by spies crossing flat terrain the whole way.
If Gandalf the Grey hadn't died, would they even have won?
Yes. God himself wanted them to win
Despite his nerfed state to start with, Gandalf held off the ringwraiths at weathertop before the fellowship even got there. He did it alone.
The story would have to change as Saruman would still be more powerful, and when the witch-king gets a powerup by Sauron before the final battle would Greydalf have enough juice left to go one on one with him if needed?
The eagles were servants of Manwe and the Valar wee forbidden to intervene in the world anymore
If Strong Bad hates Homsar so much, why doesn't he kill him?
the real answer:
>why not north immediately?
frodo was only supposed to take the ring to rivendell. everyones plan was to just let the wisest people in middle earth figure out what to do with it there. they hadn't even settled on destroying it yet
>why not north around the mountains from rivendell?
a) you're going directly away from morder
b) the north and angmar are filled with goblins, trolls and unnamed beasts that might be influenced by sauron
afterwards you might have an easier way stopping off at erebor and laketown but your journey would be insanely long and slow due to no roads or rivers. also taking the ring into dwarven or human civilisation would be very dangerous. at the end of it you would have to cross the infamously impassable mountains north of mordor and then travel through mordor for much longer than necessary
I wonder what would have happened if they had alternated the ring between the different hobbits -- and the hobbits didn't get separated. I think part of the reason why it didn't get Bilbo was that he didn't have it on him all the time, at one point the ring was probably just locked up in the house somewhere while Bilbo was raising Frodo -- and Lobelia Sackville-Baggins prbably made Bilbo more vulnerable to a ring he could use to hide from her.
>I wonder what would have happened if they had alternated the ring between the different hobbits
i'd imagine they would all come to desire the ring and become more resentful the more times they had to give it up. probably one of them would steal it and run away on their own eventually. hobbits werent immune to the ring (smeagol), bilbo and frodo were just especially resistant, gandalf chose frodo to bear the ring because he had observed his character
I wonder how much of that was because Frodo was most likely to listen to him, since Frodo is an orphan...
By the time of the start of lotr there was a massive war going on between dwarfs of erebor&iron hills vs the orcs.
So that entire area was a warzone.
if i remember it correct.
Yes in FOTR the book they mention increasing numbers of dwarven refugees fleeing westwards from erebor & the iron hills
What even happens in the places west of the Shire
Gimli and other Dwarves are from the Blue Mountains
elves and dwarves dicking around
There used to be the kingdom of Arnor, but going off the history of the shire it sounds like humanity was just fricking wiped out in that region except for Bree
Beleriand used to be there but it was sunk underwater. There are Dwarves in the Blue Mountains and the Grey Havens is where Cirdain lives, he's the oldest Elf in Middle-earth and he makes boats so that's where the Elves all go when they're ready to retire to Valinor.
Ive never watched these movies, should I pick up the extended version or are the regular ones better
extended edition
Regular are better for the first time
Regular version. The extended versions do have some good scenes but a lot of it is just filler
How did Dwarves and elves live so long? Didn't they come down with sickness/plagues
Elves don't get sick. They didn't know what disease and old age were until humans appeared in the first age. The earliest Elven word for human meant "sickly". Dwarves probably get sick but they are just tougher than everyone else to begin with. Max Dwarven lifespan is over 400 years. Elros came close to that but most Numenorians maxed at two or three hundred. Hobbits lived a bit more than a century on average, most humans less than that. Orcs maybe could live a long time but Tolkien didn't really give us a lot of information on that.
Crossing huge areas of inhospitable wilderness is hard.
Carn Durn is full of orcs and even if they survive that, they would have to go a long treck through Rhun which is Sauron alligned
What was the actual route Gandalf was hoping to use providing everything went on without a hitch?
How was he planning on getting the ring into Mordor? Is this known or was it just out of his ass bluffhope that something would pop up along the way?
The globalist elites (bankers, billionaires, investment firms) are intentionally destroying works of fiction (like Lord of the Rings) that Western men love in order to anger and demoralize them, and to socially engineer them into hating specific groups of people - divide and conquer - as the elites continue to collapse society all around us. It's all subversive warfare. Malicious psyops.
That or they're just greedy and incompetent. Occam's Razor and all that. But if they're just greedy and incompetent there's nothing that can be done to fix the situation. You're comforted by your conspiratorial security blankets because you just have to expose the man behind the curtain to fix everything. You think you can redpill enough people into creating a better world free from the JOOOOS. It's a coping mechanism for you and the rest of /misc/.
OP are you fricking a mormon? it say frodo wait at the top they wouldnt go anwyeherre
Your moronic ass realizes that mountain passes don't grow on fricking trees right? You're talking probably a year at least for the trek, then another 3 months finding a viable fricking pass, then you have to still get to mount dhoom while avoiding all the orcs. Are you fricking stupid?
How old were you when you realise that Arwen probably groomed Aragorn?
He was like 30 or 40 when they first met. Aragorn was like "was your dad hiding you from me?" and she's like "no I was staying at my grandma's for a short time" (since before Aragorn was born).
20, Aragorn was still an adolescent.
>20
>Adolescent
For frick's sake.
HE WAS 20 AND 364.99 DAYS OLD ARWN THAT SICK FRICK
Aragorn lived to be 300, mate.
>Aragorn lived to be 300, mate.
So given that normal human lifespan is around 100 or even less (60 I think) 300/100 is 3, 21/3 is 7, Arwen you sick frick!
also means that by the time LotR starts they've been together for 50 years
it's why it's so silly whenever people wonder if they're truly in love and where's the passion and what not, when they've been together about as long as most people's grandparents
they're an old married couple, just minus the marriage
Ahem
Gentleman, i fixed the journey
Their boat is sunk by pirates from Umbar as soon they reach the cape of Andrast, or possibly sunk earlier than that by sea monsters drawn towards the ring.
What, Middle Earth has Leviathans swimming about?
They talk about sea monsters when they discuss sending the ring away by boat at the council.
If by "stretch" you mean "fits like a glove" then yeah.
yes
>Ship is destroyed by sea monsters or pirates
Ulmo might have helped out. He was a cheeky fricker after all.
Lord of the Rings...
Guy you crush on as a tween girl: Legolas
Guy you romanticize as a young woman: Aragorn, Strider format
Guy you would love into your old age, even if you have to be thirdwheel of a bromance: Samwise Gangee
Yellow line is wrong, Aragorn followed the dashed line from Erech to Pelargir.
please stop.
Why didn't God zap Radaghast with lightning and tell him to get his ass up and help everyone?
He did help inadvertently. He set up a rendezvous between Gandalf and Gwaihir, that's how Gandalf was rescued from Orthanc.
How come Toolkin can make his fantasy maps but whenever I try to show mine to people I just get called a turbo autist
Because Tolkien was a turbo autist too but the kind that's a genius. You are not a genius.
Look, George, you just really need to get more creative than rectangles...
Its based off ancient map drawings
for me its mysterios
This is a bit of a stretch
They don't look anything like each other
It has the same general shape
>If you edit Canada to be America shaped, Canada looks like America
The only similarity I see is the top right part of Ireland. I don't get why people try to force this
This whole area by Dublin too.
I could pull up a map of any island/land form and find similarities that aren't there.
yeah okay do it
WTF george martin was a hack!?
too concave in bottom pic
nice try
you failed
is grrm being a hack to hard for you to comprehend?
I need you to draw some more red circles.
I can somewhat see Ireland but that doesn't look like the UK at all
>Brysbane
>DeTroyt
>kong hong
>kong hong
Man, no wonder Elden Ring is batshit with the naming lmao
You need to actually stop caring what people call you, and do something with the map, write a story, and actually finish it.
You'd have to pass through the Brown Lands. Very risky.
That route has zero advantages. It's longer and a hundred times more risky.
You're actually more moronic than the "eagles to mordor" people. have a nice day.
why didn't Galadriel join the fellowship & challenge Sauron to a 1v1?
Per another one of Tolkien's letters on Gandalf or Sauronman with the ring could 1v1 Sauron. Elrond or Galadriel could defeat Sauron (for a time) with the ring but not directly and as long as they ring survived so would Sauron. But another Maia could actually become the ring's new master. I'll find the letter.
Letter 246
>In the 'Mirror of Galadriel', 1381, it appears that Galadriel conceived of herself as capable of wielding the Ring and supplanting the Dark Lord. If so, so also were the other guardians of the Three, especially Elrond. But this is another matter. It was part of the essential deceit of the Ring to fill minds with imaginations of supreme power. But this the Great had well considered and had rejected, as is seen in Elrond's words at the Council. Galadriel's rejection of the temptation was founded upon previous thought and resolve.
>In any case Elrond or Galadriel would have proceeded in the policy now adopted by Sauron: they would have built up an empire with great and absolutely subservient generals and armies and engines of war, until they could challenge Sauron and destroy him by force. Confrontation of Sauron alone, unaided, self to self was not contemplated.
>One can imagine the scene in which Gandalf, say, was placed in such a position. It would be a delicate balance. On one side the true allegiance of the Ring to Sauron; on the other superior strength because Sauron was not actually in possession, and perhaps also because he was weakened by long corruption and expenditure of will in dominating inferiors. If Gandalf proved the victor, the result would have been for Sauron the same as the destruction of the Ring; for him it would have been destroyed, taken from him for ever. But the Ring and all its works would have endured. It would have been the master in the end.
You left out the best part of the letter.
>But the Ring and all its works would have endured. It would have been the master in the end. Gandalf as Ring-Lord would have been far worse than Sauron. He would have remained 'righteous', but self-righteous. He would have continued to rule and order things for 'good', and the benefit of his subjects according to his wisdom (which was and would have remained great). [The draft ends here. In the margin Tolkien wrote: 'Thus while Sauron multiplied [illegible word] evil, he left "good" clearly distinguishable from it. Gandalf would have made good detestable and seem evil.']
Its literally right beside the sea
>much longer, time was of the essence (the biggest reason, really)
>going through Angmar is almost as bad as going through Mordor itself
>long-ass section completely exposed to Easterlings who are either savages or loyal to Sauron
>no rivers
>no Lorien, the quest would've failed without Galadriel's gifts
>Mordor is inaccessible from the north, you'd either need to go through the Morgul pass anyway or go completely around the mountains, which adds even more ground to your trek and a big-ass section of it is now walking directly through most of Mordor
>time was of the essence
It wasn't until Aragorn goaded Sauron through the Palantir. They took a month's vacation in Lothlorien and took two months ro leave Rivendell. Sauron's planned invasion was still years off before then.
Fricking try to stop me.
If you're strong enough 1v1 the balrog, stomp saruman and his army, bash down the black gate and then 1v1 the witch king why do you even need to destroy the ring?
to dab on sauron as i floss over his nazgul and erect a new tower called skibidi toilet
>stomp through his shit
>break his little gay ring just for fun
Bully mode
Get in, lad
Someone fold it in half and punch a hole through it with a pencil.
Because anything else is tactically, strategically and logistically moronic.
Sauron has all the known roads even close to Mordor and some well beyond covered.
Beyond that, the only possible way to get an invading army into Mordor in short order is from the east.
Which is what Sauron expects, so he has that covered, too.
This is why the fellowship split up and took the fight to the bastard as a distraction for Frodo and Sam to get shit done.
And why the big ruse at the end worked because they payed to his expectations, then pulled the proverbial rug out from under him.
Classic bait and switch and Sauron bought it hook, line and sinker.
By the time he realized what was happening he was already fricked.
Going in the way they did was the smartest thing they could've done because it was literally the only way it could've possibly worked.
That and Aragorn was playing mind games with
Sauron and using the Palantir to time things correctly.
He kept challenging Sauron that he had the ring and was powerful enough to destroy him which is why Sauron amassed everything he had in Morder to the Black Gates.
Mhm.
Rule number 1: Pick your battles and always engage the enemy on your terms. Never on his.
Was Sauron aware that the ring was being being destroyed. What did he think the allies were doing or attempting to do during the movie?
He was not aware at all
What he thought was that Aragorn had the One Ring, and was marching his army to the Black Gate for him there to claim the One Ring and dethrone Sauron
Which in his mind was a reasonable course of action, one which might have had a chance of success if planned out better, but Aragorn was being too rash, too eager and he was waiting, pretending to be wounded, only to swallow the pretender
Basically during the march to the Black Gate Sauron does everything possible to make it seem like the defeat at Minas Tirith had wiped out all orcs he had available in the west, only to go "surprise motherfricker" when he breaks out an even larger army
What he had zero idea of was that not only was Aragorn plenty aware it was hopeless, but that the point was for him to be a distraction
He thought they were bringing it to Gondor which Aragorn reinforced through the Palantir
Aragorn made Sauron think he had it and was using it which is why Sauron mustered as the black gate.
Aragorn's wit and intellect has been lost in every adaptation, and that's a shame.
I like Aragorn in the fan film, I feel he's less emo, he just gets to it *stuff gollum in sack*
originally made in 2009 so don't expect 4k
THE HUNT FOR GOLLUM - (Redux) Tolkien Fan Film
uIndependent Online Cinema i 643K views Dec 14 2019
...this and other fan film Horn of Gondor (2020) looks so much better than Rings of Power, Ring of Power has armour that looks like kids Halloween costume brought from a dollar store.
Okay, more than a few minutes into Horn of Gondor, it's actually kinda crappy, can't put it in the same cateroy as Hunt for Gollum 2009, but it's still better than Rings of Power.
He thought his enemies would use it against him and didn't even conceive of the notion that they'd refuse to on principle and instead try to destroy it,
Evil being fundamentally unable to comprehend good is a constant with Tolkien. Almost none of the bad things that happen throughout Arda's history would've happened if Melkor hadn't assumed Manwë's pardon of him after his first defeat at Utumno was not genuine for no other reason than "pretending to forgive an enemy to humiliate him is what I'd do".
>Was Sauron aware that the ring was being being destroyed
Not until the last moments. Only when Frodo put the ring on inside Mt. Doom did he suddenly realize what was about to happen. At that point, the Nazgul were involved in the battle at the Black Gate, hundreds of miles away. They extracted themselves and flew towards the mountain at top speed as soon as Sauron became aware of the ring's location, but the ring was destroyed before they could get there.
>What did he think the allies were doing or attempting to do during the movie?
Not sure about the movie, but in the book, Aragorn used the palantir to reveal himself to Sauron as Isildur's heir, and thereby caused Sauron to assume that *he* had the ring and was going to rashly attempt to use it against him.
Up until the end, Sauron couldn't even conceive of the idea that someone would choose to destroy the ring, let alone comprehend it. As such, he never suspected the danger until it was too late.
>They extracted themselves and flew towards the mountain at top speed as soon as Sauron became aware of the ring's location, but the ring was destroyed before they could get there.
Wait, does Sauron have instant telepathic comms with the ring-wraiths?
Yes.
Doesn't FTL comms violate causality?
No.
Yes BUT the ring does not send out a magic GPS beacon when it's put in, that's why Sam was able to wear it in Mordor. The exception was Amon Hen which was a magical hotspot and so drew Sauron's gaze. Frodo vanishing at the Prancing Pony was witnessed by a spy who reported it to theNazgul.
I thought, at least the way the movie show it seem to imply, that whenever you put on the ring, you are invisible to other people, but the Nazgul can suddenly see you, that the Nazgul have difficulty seeing anything other than the ring.
Correct. Which is why in the books they frequently get on all fours like a beast and sniff for the scent of their prey.
It's almost seem like there is two dimension, normal, and the one that the ring and the nazgul are in, or two worlds at least, the Nazgul and ringbearers still have one foot in ours, but they've been mostly consumed.
Material world vs spirit world, essentially.
I've heard the effects of the ring compared to rug addiction, it's like the Nazguls are a band of crackheads with a tunnel vision for cocaine, they can ignore you unless you wave a dimebag in their face.
I prefer shag, myself.
I've been burned, carpet burned by my keyboard eating letters again.
What's the implication of elf orgasm?
I mean we can assume they copulate normally, but they're creating an immortal being. That must be some kinda psychedelic coom experience
same reasons elves die if you rape them in Tolkien's world (except that one time where an elf is bewitched to frick another elf against her will, somehow roofieing an elf stops them from dying)
The Fellowship isn't even created until Rivendell
Hmm let me see
>longest fricking route you could take
>going through the realm of Angmar, infested with orcs
>going through Forodwaithe aka frozen arctic wasteland
>going through withered heath which is also crawling with orcs and hobgoblins
>would be mostly alright up until the brown lands which is a hewn waste and full of nasties
>if you somehow fricking made it to the Ered Lithui at the point you provided you couldn't actually fricking pass it because it is a literal mountain range
>even if you went through the "back" of Mordor you are covering an absurd amount of open territory and would almost definitely be fricked as soon as you got there, probably by orcs or Easterlings
OP at least try to have some understanding of Middle-Earth geography sheesh
what's actually your goal here? I think the northern stretch past the shire/fornost has trolls. Mount Gundabad and all of that has Goblins. Erebor/Esgaroth were openly at war with Sauron and the men of Rhun the same as Gondor. The whole Rhun area is full of men who worship Sauron
it's honestly an even worse route. There's probably only a couple guarded entrances to Mordor that direction as well and a lot more exposure
Stop talking bullshit. I've read the letter this bit comes from, you haven't. Tolkien said Gollum slipping was providence. Providence ≠ God "pushing" Gollum. It was preordained random chance.
NTA, but I would argue it was pure chance and left to debate.
And frick the letters, honestly. If it didn't happen in the story itself it didn't happen.
Also, if you feel the need to explain what happened in your story, it's because you did a shit job writing it to begin with.
Or because you're an arrogant prick.
doesn’t providence just mean god doing something but it happens via the web of fate? you can argue eru shoved gollum and the series of events that led to him falling were like erus arm going across time to do it in a metaphorical way.
Why try to make sense of christcuck shit in the first place. Why doesn’t eru just stop sauron doing any of this? Because realistically beings like eru don’t exist otherwise there would be no stakes. It’s a writing flaw in a story the same way it’s a logic flaw in reality.
because of free will, fedoralord :^)
A better metaphor would be Eru knocking down the first domino on a complicated Rube Goldberg machine which eventually results in an oil can dumping onto the floor underneath Gollum and causing him to slip
You want them to go thru the lost realm? Are you fricking insane?
Ring of Power have some hideously unattractive male elves, they don't seem to understand that women loved Lord of the Rings because it had pretty boy elves, handsome mysterious rangers, and manly warriors. Women don't want to watch a show centering around the Queen b***h from their highschool days. At this rate the only way Ring of Power can save itself is to reveal Girl Boss Galadriel as a skinwalking imposter, and then throw that b***h into a volcano.
I think they should have more scenes with the black dwarf lady
I actually think many black women make beautiful, but black dwarves make no sense. Africans have kinky hair because kinky hair dries faster (from sweat) and doesn't collect as much heat from the sun. Dwarves dwell in caves and don't that that hot! Just Some Guy on youtube, who happens to be black, explains in his rants why black elves makes no sense either.
Black folk have nappy hair. Not ''kinky''. Whatever that is.
And no, it absolutely does not dry faster.
Literally the exact opposite. And it stinks. Horribly.
That's why the sheboons steal so much hair spray most shops in Black personville have to keep it locked up.
maybe not the most popular opinion but i wouldnt have actually minded black dwarves, if they were a distinct society and had their own look and culture. the annoying thing is you just have every group of people being a melting pot with tokens from every race and they completely lose all flavor
black elves dont make sense at all because theyre not "people" at all. they looked way too similar to just humans with pointy ears in all adaptations, they should be properly otherwordly looking and pure white skinned
>ALALALLALALLALALALALALLALALALALALALLALALALALA SAURON AHKBAR! SAAAAAUROOOON AHKBAR
>No mention of these homies
Wish Tolkien had written more about them
No Forlong in the movie was the biggest disappointment
Could they not have gotten a boat down the coast?
No, they couldn't have. Hackson really plays up the shortage of manpower at Helm's Deep but in the book that battle is over in two pages, the siege of Minas Tirith lasts a whole chapter. It was Minas Tirith that was desperately undermanned because most of Gondor's military was protecting the coast from incessant pirate raids. That's why Aragorn needed the ghosts (who, being incorporeal, couldn't actually physically hurt anyone), the spook the pirates inyo jumping ship so he and his ranger buddies could capture their boats and ferry reinforcements to the capital.
Lord of the Rings inspired so much, the horcrux in Harry Potter probably, and the scene where Harry Potter was dead and talked to Dumbledore resemble when Frodo THOUGHT he was dead and was talking to Gandalf.
The Valley of the End in Naruto.
bro who cares? they're all going to hell anyway. who cares about the souls of unbelievers?
I want to see Eowyn take the black route if you know what I mean
Why not take the High pass and then go down the river?
They considered that in the book, but thought it better to stay west of the mountains for as long as possible.
...rewatching the trilogy -- I think everyone is more vulnerable to the influence of the ring when they are in a bad place. The ring got better hold of Bilbo after he got back to Bagend and have to deal with the likes of Lobelia Sackville Baggins -- it wasn't just her, he said at his party he didn't like the half of them, he probably stayed in the village partly because he had to take care of Frodo, and he loved Frodo enough to not think of the ring then, but then, empty nest, and it start to prey on him how he was getting old and couldn't have any more adventures -- in the end, Bilbo was able to drop the ring because he was leaving to go to Rivendell. Boromir attacked Frodo shortly after Aragorn rejected Gondor. I think Gollum and that friend he killed might not have been that good friends to begin with, maybe they were closer to the evil harfoots from Rings of Power.
I thought Aragorn/Legolas was another stupid slash for slash's sake pairing (and i say this as someone who ship Spock/McCoy) because Aragorn has Arwen and Legolas sailed off into teh sunset together with GILMI...but then we can probably blame Orlando Bloom for this, and it is Orlando Bloom and not Legolas because he looks like this at Viggo off the set too, lol:
starting 0:18, it was almost like Legolas was going to get married to Aragorn: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S0HCYSky6BI
Here you go
Now quit asking
Lord of the Rings stars plan to be buried with Aragorn for real
Our favorite hobbits, Merry and Pippin AKA Dominic Monaghan and Billy Boyd have spoken about their desire to be buried with Viggo Mortensen, but he's not sure.
Fiona Underhill
Published: March 13, 2024
The Lord of the Rings
https://www.thedigitalfix.com/the-lord-of-the-rings/buried-with-aragorn
//Dominic Monaghan and Billy Boyd, who play Merry and Pippin, are particularly close out of everyone in The Lord of the Rings cast. At a convention in Atlanta, Monaghan even revealed that he and Boyd want to be buried with Aragorn (Viggo Mortensen). This is for a heart-warming reason that comes directly from JRR Tolkien’s books, but which there wasn’t time for in the fantasy movies – despite Return of the King having six endings.
Monaghan says; “I don’t know if you guys are aware but in the appendices, Merry and Pippin – after everything calms down, and there’s the scouring of the shire and they go to visit their families – they go off and they go and see Aragorn. And Merry and Pippin are actually buried with Aragorn.” //
Merry and Pippin dies before Aragorn in the book, I think one way to do The Hunt for Gollum is to have Aragorn recount it to Merry and Pippin before they die. I think it would be cool if the actual stories are anime voiced by the original actors -- Kill Bill had an animated segment for O-Ren's flashbacks -- to avoid casting several actresses of different ages for one character, and to avoid putting child actresses into adult situations.
>Peter Jackson literally sometimes called him Aragorn by accident
kek
The casting in these movies is pretty spot on with the sorry exception of Eowyn who was ruined by the rewrites anyway. She's supposed to be an angry, angst-filled teenager with a death wish not a lovelorn middle-aged woman. She never really loved Aragorn in the book she just knew that she was the most likely candidate for queen and thought that maybe she wouldn't hate life so much that way.
Eowyn was ruined in general. Hackson made it out like Theoden was separated from his soldiers by the witch king when in the books all of his soldiers save for his niece-daughter, fled in terror while she stood up to defend him as his sole protector in spite of the immense fear and dread that he was projecting onto the battlefield.
wait, so you want her to be EVEN MORE of a girl boss who don't need no man?!
There's nothing wrong with the sentiment of her being the only one with the courage to stand up to defend her father. She's terrified and knows she can't win but her love for her father has her stand her ground anyway. That's a nice moment.
It's Merry stabbing the Witch King with his Barrowblade (which was skipped over in the movies so it looks like Eowyn just wins, but in reality she could only do that because of Merry breaking the spell temporarily and making the Witch King vulnerable)
>Merry stabbing the Witch King with his Barrowblade (which was skipped over in the movies
Had to be skipped, arguably, because they'd skipped the whole Old Forest/Tom Bombadil/Barrow Downs part of the story, so there was no reason for him to have a blade which had been specifically forged against the forces of Angmar.
Yeah, an unfortunate but necessary omission
I contend that if they had just made six movies instead of three (following the actual structure of the books, where there are two "books" per volume) that they could have included those chapters of FoTR.
The movies aren't missing even close to 3 movies worth of content also if they followed the books like that you'd have entire movies with no Frodo
>The movies aren't missing even close to 3 movies worth of content
I don't mean 3 additional 3+ hour movies. Six 2-2.5 hour movies could have accommodated everything without the need for extended versions.
>if they followed the books like that you'd have entire movies with no Frodo
I don't see that as a real problem. If you want, you can add a few connecting scenes just so that people can have some concept of how the timeline matches up.
>if they followed the books like that you'd have entire movies with no Frodo
I'm okay with this, their part is just walking and walking.
the trilogy was already such a monumental undertaking with just the 3 films, there was no way in hell they could've done 6
And I still think Bombadil doesn't belong in an on-screen adaptation, since the only plot-relevant thing that happens in that whole part is that they get the barrow-blades
You can't just go from a harrowing stealth mission to avoid the ring wraiths, to a weird lighthearted romp in the forest with some guy who sings like "Jolly Tom Hop-along bombadillo-do!" and has some kind of river nymph wife or whatever
Tom never reappears in the story, never matters, and just completely kills the pacing and tone of everything
The audience would just be like "what the frick was the point of any of that"
It also would have produced a whole new slew of morons who think they're smart and pointing out plotholes, who would say
>durrr why didn't they just leave the ring with Tom?? He wasn't even affected by it! Just hide it with Tom!
because so many people don't understand that hiding the ring was NOT an option or a path to victory. Sauron was going to conquer middle earth with our without the ring. The only path to victory was to destroy it. But morons would be morons and maintain that not giving it to Bombadil was a plot hole or "bad writing"
>the trilogy was already such a monumental undertaking with just the 3 films, there was no way in hell they could've done 6
It's essentially the same amount of actual film (especially if you cut out some of the bullshit Jackson pulled out of his ass for The Two Towers, and maybe don't have that overly long fight with the troll in Moria that's completely unlike the scene in the book). It's just arranged differently.
>weird lighthearted romp in the forest
It isn't. There's nothing lighthearted about the Old Forest itself. As for Bombadil, it all depends on the portrayal: if you portray him as weird and otherworldly, rather than some goofy hippie, it can work just fine.
>just completely kills the pacing
It doesn't kill the pacing at all. It's a respite. Properly paced epics have lulls in the action just like that.
>It also would have produced a whole new slew of morons who think they're smart and pointing out plotholes, who would say
>durrr why didn't they just leave the ring with Tom?? He wasn't even affected by it! Just hide it with Tom!
The book goes into why that would have been a bad idea. If you leave that bit of dialogue in the film, it's not an issue.
I still think it would take up too much time and just serve to confuse the audience because Tom is never relevant to the story again
You're taking up a lot of runtime just so that Merry having a Barrowblade is established - which isn't that important because 99% of the audience didn't notice or care that it was weird when Eowyn killed the Witch King
>but in reality she could only do that because of Merry breaking the spell temporarily and making the Witch King vulnerable
This is kind of true but not quite. The spell that the text refers to the Barrowblade breaking is one that "knit [the Witch King's] unseen sinews to his will." It sounds more like what Merry did was to immobilize him, possibly even only temporarily, but Eowyn seizes the moment and kills him first.
Here's the quote about the Barrowblade
>So passed the sword of the Barrow-downs, work of Westernesse. But glad would he have been to know its fate who wrought it slowly long ago in the North-kingdom when the Dúnedain were young, and chief among their foes was the dread realm of Angmar and its sorcerer king. No other blade, not though mightier hands had wielded it, would have dealt that foe a wound so bitter, cleaving the undead flesh, breaking the spell that knit his unseen sinews to his will.
The "no man can kill me" thing doesn't literally mean that he is invulnerable to being killed. It was a prophecy, which the Witch King believed to be an unchangeable fact, due to his own arrogance. In the end, he WAS killed by a Man - in the sense that "Man" is the word used to refer to humans, whether they are male or female. There is nothing to indicate that he actually had some kind of spell around him that prevented him from being killed by someone with a wiener and balls.
The reason Eowyn is the one who kills him isn't because she has breasts and a pussy. It's because she was able to resist the Black Breath (what the fear-inducing aura of the Nazgul is called), actually stood up to him, and was able to take advantage of a moment of unexpected weakness thanks to Merry paralyzing him. It's entirely possible that, say, Eomer could have killed him instead. He just didn't have the opportunity because circumstances never put him in a position where he would be able to do it.
Yes. She is the story's warrior princess, not Arwen. Arwen was a pamper noblewoman who spent her days indoors embroidering. Replacing Glorfindel with Arwen is another thing that ruined Eowyn, before Eowyn was evenintroduced.
Arwen also has all of about two lines of dialogue in the books, outside of the appendices.
Yeah she just says hi to Frodo at one point.
It's the "here be dragons" part of the world so yes it is. And it gets scarier the farther north you go because past the top edges of the map lies Udun, Satan's first and greatest fortress where he created the Orcs and the Balrogs all lived.
The footage I would love to see was Peter Jackson trying to advise Christopher Lee on how Saruman's dying moments should be like, and then Christopher Lee was like, 'do you know what it sound like when a man is stabbed in the back?" ...'well I do' -- because Lee was SAS during WWII, and Jackson got scared.
Did you really not notice that the plan to throw the Ring into Orodruin was made up at Rivendell, at the council of Elrond?
So your route fails from the start.
As to why they did not take the longer route around from Rivendell? Gandalf convinced Elrond that the hope needed to be put into the race of men, so he had plans to get Rohan and Gondor to put up the fight against Mordor. So they had to go there on their way to Mordor.
>Gandalf convinced Elrond that the hope needed to be put into the race of men, so he had plans to get Rohan and Gondor to put up the fight against Mordor
That's mostly a movie thing. In the book, Gandalf never discussed plans past getting over the mountains. Boromir was always planning to return to Gondor, but Aragorn was torn between going with him and going with Frodo, especially after Gandalf was lost in Moria. Nobody would have gone to Rohan if the orcs hadn't captured Merry and Pippin. Military operations weren't part of the original plan, which always depended on the ringbearer sneaking into Mordor. Dealing with Saruman, saving Gondor, and marching on Mordor all just kind of played out that way because it was all they could do once Frodo and Sam had gone beyond where they could help them.
Gandalf did help to convince Elrond to let Merry and Pippin go along, when Elrond had wanted to send more elves, and was particularly loth to let Pippin go on account of his youth.
Gandalf understood well before the council of Elrond that the ring had to be destroyed at Mt. Doom. He tells Frodo when they’re in Bag End that the only way to defeat Sauron is to destroy the ring and that the only way to destroy it is to unmake it in the place where it was forged.
some anon in a previous thread recommended the Ralph Bakshi animated version for a more dystopian take on middle earth that really captures what a dark age they were in
Watched that shit last night, pure Kino
just wish it didn't end on such an abrupt note
Forodwaith sounds scary
What the frick does gurm making Westeros out of Britain and upsidedown Ireland have to do with Tolkien and allegory you mouth-breathing troglodyte?
Suck my wiener leftshit.
kek he deleted the post
homosexual
Did you know that China used to be seven kingdoms?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seven_Warring_States
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rebellion_of_the_Seven_States
I have that exact edition of The Silmarillion. I have the others in hardcover.
have all of these except the LotR volumes are all black like The Hobbit
Book collector anon from yesterday's thread.
I highly suggest you guys read Lord Dunsany. He's a great foil to everything Tolkien stood for. The King of Dreams.
why are those lakes called seas?
Why is the Caspian Sea a sea? Or the Dead Sea? Or the Aral Sea (RIP)?
> Aral Sea (RIP)
Fricking Russians
Blame the Uzbeks at this point. They could have saved it
>because the water is salty
Yes.
>they were all connected to actual seas at one point
Not within historic times. Those names were applied long before paleogeology.
because the water is salty? they were all connected to actual seas at one point. that map doesnt imply this at all. theyre lakes
The sea of Rhun is also salty. It's an inland sea, the water flows in not out.
typically seas are salty, but it is sorta loosely applied to large bodies of water