So why were we able to have boy scout cap but every says you can't do boy scout superman?
So why were we able to have boy scout cap but every says you can't do boy scout superman?
So why were we able to have boy scout cap but every says you can't do boy scout superman?
Because casuals are fricking stupid and have the loudest voice
Got it on the first try. People meme that Superman is boring because nobody can be interesting when they’re that kind and also that powerful. So filmmakers try to explore that idea by showing how much effort and willpower it takes to be good. Then audiences have autistic an meltdown because they don’t like the idea of there being no simple answers and they hate the thought that Superman could feel frustration, selfishness, or petty anger and still somehow be virtuous. What audiences really want are characters who appear flawed and complex but are actually very flat and one dimensional because the consequences of their flaws never really follow them. Man of Steel portrays the 9/11 x 1000 levels of property damage as being terrifying and with consequence, which pisses audiences off because it forces them to have empathy for characters who aren’t themselves (the hero) and makes it harder for them to eat their popcorn and look at their phone.
>Man of Steel portrays the 9/11 x 1000 levels of property damage as being terrifying and with consequence
Black person Zack Snyder didn't give a shit about the amount of destruction and did damage control by saying in interviews "only 5000 people died bro" when people were complaining
And then the end of the movie doesn't even acknowledge it, or have Superman reflect on killing Zod. Look, Murderman is working at the Daily Planet now!
>which pisses audiences off because it forces them to have empathy for characters who aren’t themselves (the hero)
Ha, I wonder what kind of sociopath you'd have to be to have empathy for this version of Superman who doesn't care about anything except his mom and the person he's fricking.
You sound like a Donner worshipper.
>you sound like you like Superman
Uh, yeah? Am I supposed to be ashamed of that?
A whole movie of Superman pulling people out of wrecked buildings might be good for a moment in a comic book, But it's harder to make a whole movie based around that. One that isn't boring at least.
People talk a big game about Supermans morals, or what he stands for, Mr Truth Justice And American way, but they only show up to his movies when he's punching a bad guy in the face.
>A whole movie of Superman pulling people out of wrecked buildings might be good for a moment in a comic book, But it's harder to make a whole movie based around that.
Then don't? There's several good Superman stories you can adapt that still respect the core of the character while having exciting action. It's not a choice between "only saves people from buildings" and "Snyder's depressing bullshit".
>but they only show up to his movies when he's punching a bad guy in the face.
They don't, which is why they're rebooting everything again. Superman Returns isn't what people wanted, and Man of Steel/BvS isn't either.
How old are you? You don't want to spend time with your grand kids before you die you want to shitpost online instead?
Cap is a fake boyscout, he kills tons of people much in the same way people complain all the movie Batmen kill people, aka he breaks their necks and tosses them into the ocean to die, maybe he doesn't slit their neck, but they're not coming back from what he does to them unless movie magic demands it like "Crossbones"
Also nobody says you can't do boyscout Superman, everyone wants that, that's why everyone b***hed about MoS, because he wasn't boyscouty enough
>much in the same way people complain all the movie Batmen kill people, aka he breaks their necks and tosses them into the ocean to die, maybe he doesn't slit their neck
I'm pretty sure he shoots some people.
But they were Nazis, chud! Cap was just unironically bashing the fash, and that's a good thing! Also he canonically stops being a boy scout and loses his faith in G*d.
You're so close to understanding.
It's a matter of tone.
Captain America can get away with killing bad guys in the heat of the moment because the movie's tone makes it seem like a good thing.
Man of Steel frames it as a tragedy that Clark has to kill the last of his kind. The movie's tone is telling you to feel bad, so audiences felt bad.
I don't really agree with this. Clark slamming some guy into 5 walls and Bruce straight up shooting people rubbed a lot of people the wrong way even if there was no sort of negative tone to these scenes.
Are you trolling or did I misunderstand you? Did you say the tone surrounding hero brutality in BvS wasn’t negative and pessimistic? Because it absolutely was.
Superman is supposed to be a paragon post-BvS, and I don't think ruthlessly slamming a normal human being through solid concrete in the opening scene reflected the character growth he was supposed to have after killing Zod
Batman was supposed to be redeemed after his confrontation with Superman, yet he still guns down mooks carelessly when trying to save Martha. His violence was indeed portrayed negatively early on, but I don't think he should still be doing that after his turning point.
Everyone wants boyscout Supes, DC just can't get their heads out of their asses.
>Cap is a fake boyscout, he kills tons of people
*enemies of america
Because the only way Superman works is either as a Richard Donner / Waid / All Star Supergod or as a Golden Age Fleischer cartoon style bruiser. The midpoint is boring
Nah, the best on screen version of Superman is the 90s-00s DCAU one
Agreed. Powers, attitude, everything. It was perfect.
>Gets beat up buy a kangaroo
Superman has been struggling against robots since the fleischer days
>boy scout cap
He's not. They even ditched the helmet and gave him a beard for the more rugged look. No one even bats an eye when MCU cap kills his enemies.
Boyscout Cap makes sense because he’s from a time period where that was a valued trait. Superman in current day America doesn’t work with the boyscout persona.
>Superman in current day America doesn’t work with the boyscout persona.
Why is a small town farmboy from kansas being a good guy such a problem?
Because to America(Hollywood) Kansas and all the other "flyover states" are nothing but a densely packed orb of racism so nobody coming from there is allowed to be nice on TV, and on top of that someone being actually just happy and good like Superman is unrealistic and you're a fricking idiot for wanting to watch someone be good and nice for the sake of being good and nice.
>wtf you want superheroes to be paragons worth looking up to
>umm that's unrealistic sweetie the guy who can shoot lasers out of his face can't just be a good person
There's a good chance that the The Boys show existing has made however many TV execs think exactly this
This issue predates that show, execs have been this way with Superman since the Donner movies ended.
>and on top of that someone being actually just happy and good like Superman is unrealistic and you're a fricking idiot for wanting to watch someone be good and nice for the sake of being good and nice.
But cap literally does that though. The man literally defied international law so that he could do the right thing.
When did Snyder Superman do the wrong thing?
Don't mention killing Zod cause he was literally saving a family doing that.
>When did Snyder Superman do the wrong thing?
He should have let that bus of kids die.
You have nothing then. Nice. Good to know.
>Don't mention killing Zod cause he was literally saving a family doing that.
You don't see Batman killing anyone to save people.
Besides the most recent movie and the Joker in Dark Knight, all of Batman's cinematic villains died and Batman killed them.
Unless you forgot about Batman killing the driver of Talia's truck and then causing her to swerve, fall off a bridge, and die.
>all of Batman's cinematic villains died
He didn't kill Scarecrow or Ra's.
He did kill Ras. He ordered Gordon to take out the bridge, thus killing Ras.
You could argue Gordon killed Ras, but Batman not only opened the Bat Mobile for him (he literally unlocked the door), but Batman even ordered Gordon to shoot down the bridge.
No, deliberately choosing to leave someone in a situation that will result in mortality isn't responsibility, anon! Deliberately, consciously allowing someone to come to harm through inaction carries no moral consequences.
Could it even be called inaction? Batman and Gordon worked together to destroy a bridge, then someone fell off and died.
Or Joker in the Nolanverse.
>When did Snyder Superman do the wrong thing?
You serious?
>not saving Pa Kent from the tornado
>destroys some guy's truck because he was mean to him
>smash Zod through several buildings and a gas station in Smallville
>20 blocks of Metropolis gets flattened and then decides to kiss Lois instead of saving people in trouble
>continues to smash Zod through several buildings instead of saving people
>Zod throws an 18 wheeler at Superman and instead of stopping it he let's it crash into a parking garage
And yes snapping Zod's neck was wrong, frick you.
>destroys a government satellite after they are rightfully afraid of Superman for destroying Metropolis
>Hears Jimmy Olsen get shot in the head and doesn't come in until come in until his wienersleve is in danger
>bodyslams a human through concrete instead of just destroying his gun
>doesn't stay behind to help people held hostage by KG Beast, just takes his wienersleve home
>hates Batman for being a violent vigilante even though he does the exact same shit, arguably worse
>threatens Batman instead of just talking to him, multiple times
>doesn't talk to anybody he saves to reassure them, just looks constipated and let's people be weird
>let's a bomb go off in a court room and isn't freaked out from the massive amount of death happening around him, just looks constipated
>leaves without helping anyone outside the courtside, makes himself look guilty for no reason
>has a brain radar for whenever his wienersleve is in danger but not for his own mother
>bothers to fight Batman instead of convincing him to help save his mother
>says "Save Martha" as if Batman would know who that is instead of "save my mother" or "save hostage"
>comes back from the dead and decides to kill everyone until Lois shows up out of nowhere
a government satellite
it was a drone. You didn't watch the movie.
Okay, a drone. Point still stands that he's just being a prick. And I notice you didn't comment on anything else I listed.
I'm not going to break everything you wrote down point by point and essaypost. I don't care to write that much. But what you wrote was wrong.
>I'm not going to break everything you wrote down point by point and essaypost
It doesn't have to be everything, just one or two things. And all you could comment on is a technicality.
>But what you wrote was wrong.
Concession accepted.
It's not, that anon is just making shit up
Kansas voted for Trump. Twice.
>you can't be a good person and vote for trump
Liberals are the real life supervillains
Exactly my point. You can't expect people who's view of people from Kansas and Middle America is fueled by CNN Twitter and TikTok echo chambers and social justice college courses to write a relatively conservative american christian character accurately.
You need to have a strong moral core yourself to actually write a character with one well and accurately.
this, that hellhole would never breed a boy scout. this is why Superman needs to be black.
>this is why Superman needs to be black.
And written by a guy who literally calls white people demons.
>he wants superman to be a criminal
nobody wants conservative/republican superman.
Nobody wants black/thug superman
How would an alien be Black or white? Superman has no place in human society in the first place. That's why he needs to live the lie.
"truth justice and the american way"
considering modern libs hate america, it's safe to say superman IS conservative
Jews
Good Guy from small town =/= jerking off that America can do no wrong
Part of cap's conflict was that the shit US gov fed him wasn't 100% accurate and life has a lot more grey than he thought.
Supes is just from a small town on sliding time scale and doesn't make sense in the modern era to believe everything tv/news tells him. In fact it works better for his Clark identity to dedicate himself to being a pinnacle of truth and writing about subjects others won't touch because its too upsetting or doesn't get enough (you)s
isn't clark canonically a really good writer, able to transform events and tragedy into literary paintings
Yes its been noted in different runs that he wins international prizes and gets readers from all background to put eyes on his work. Even when its considered shit for being too topical he does it.
Its a part of him a lot of writers fail to capture because he would be the one telling both left and right they fricked up.
Because they're extremely different characters. Cap is super-powered but within normal parameters. There is always risk involved with him. He does work as a symbol of inspiration and hope because ultimately he is a human existing in a world with heightened powerlevels. And when things go south, Cap will kill and make the hard choice. Cap is close to the military heroes people have idolised for milenia.
Now take Superman. He's overpowered to the point of absurdity. He's a supergenius with vast resources. He could theoretically change the world in any conceivable way if he put his mind to it. Yet all he does is prance around like a homosexual, reminding everyone how much more powerful his xeno homosexual ass is. Superman being an "aww schucks" boyscout when he has the powers of a god, comes off as insulting. He's not a real person, he's a phony who just wants to feel good about his role as the "benevolent shepherd". He has a gift he refuses to use, and that makes people mad. Add the fact that he's got few weaknesses except from contrived nonsense like a rock, and you end up with an invincible homosexual putting on a fake persona of humility. People hate hypocrisy and Supergay is the ultimately representation of it. He's like that homosexual c**t Will Hunting who was gifted this enormous intellect, and yet sulks around a construction site. When Affleck tells him that if he sees him still wasting his life he'll beat his ass, that's how people see Superman. But with the added "bonus" that you can't beat up Superman. So you have to endure this homosexual reject his destiny, avoid making any hard decisions, and play up this façade of humility. It's insulting to people at their very core. If there's one thing everyone hates, that's a coward, and ultimately that's what Supergay is.
>see a man making a point to use his powers to save people from harm because it's the right thing to do
>seethe about it and get mad because you wouldn't do the same in his position
What causes this?
Atheism
Swap Superman with God and its the exact same midwit idiocy
Go back to piss in jars, Lex, you are not fooling anybody
Absolute power corrupts absolutely.
>Captain America
>Normal guy with above average gymnastic skills and a gun.
>Superman
>Can literally take over the planet and/or kill everyone on earth in a day if he ever had a bad one.
Compared to Superman, Captain America is an underdog like Batman fighting back against gods and winning despite the odds. Superman on the other hand is so powerful nothing can realistically challenge him in a way an audience would find engaging. Not unless you pervert the character to make him more human and relatable with the issues real human beings with power have (see Homelander Omniman), but if you're doing that you may as well not write a Superman movie.
If you're writing a character with Supermans power level, you have to make them morally flawed to make them engaging because nothing physical can challenge him. If you're writing a low power hero like Cap, you can afford to make them morally pure because they're refusal to change will make us want to root for them in the challenges they face.
To put it in even dumber terms. Lets put cap and Superman in similar situations. The US President demands Cap and/or Superman put down a civil uprising and they refuse to, so the US government threatens them with violence for their non compliance.
>Captain America. Has to dodge the bullets, run out of the whitehouse, take a hostage, hijack a plane to escape. An exciting engaging fight scene.
>Superman. Takes the bullets, frowns, lectures the president for his moral compromises, and then flies away. Boring.
Seems like the problem is intentionally writing superman into scenarios that wouldn't be interesting for him and then getting mad that they aren't interesting.
Gee, if only Superman had some sort of supergenius archnemesis who can orchestrate a political plot to ruin his reputation and mess with him emotionally, as well as send other similarly powered individuals to threaten him physically for good measure
Superman doesn't care about his reputation because he's that pure. He'll help people even if they hate him. He's incorruptible without even the possibility of questioning what he stands for.
>Superman doesn't care about his reputation because he's that pure
Wrong, feeling a sense of belonging with the human race is one of his primary goals in many stories.
Superman should care for people. He shouldn't care about what humanity thinks of him. If he really cared about being accepted by the human race as an equal, he wouldn't be Superman.
>Superman should care for people. He shouldn't care about what humanity thinks of him.
He cares about both. Of course he would still try to do good, but not being accepted is something that gets to any man, super or otherwise. And for someone whose goal it is to expose Superman as an alien who doesn't belong, this works to Lex's favor greatly.
>If he really cared about being accepted by the human race as an equal, he wouldn't be Superman.
I'm fairly certain that he does in the vast majority of interpretations. Could you give examples where this isn't the case?
Because Superman's dick would kill a boy.
Because Snyder & his cult demand to be taken seriously.
Nobody likes Injustice.
The games sold over several million units each. The comic books were a huge hit the mainstream DC comics couldn't match on a good day. Clearly somebody likes it or else it wouldn't have been so well received.
Selling on novelty doesn't match with critical response.
We're never getting a good Superman movie in our lifetimes because his rights are owned by an evil corporation that hates the values he stands for and will never adapt him accurately because he reminds them too much of their own problems and failures. I have no doubt another character like Superman will come around to take his place. Arguably he already has been with characters like Invincible, AllMight, Saitama, Goku etc. but Superman himself? Sorry.
I see Superman nowadays as less something I'm a fan of, and more as a dead loved one who died of a tragic disease. I'll remember the good times we had, and mourn the loss of the good times we didn't get to have because of the disease. But nothing is going to bring Superman back from the dead. and I'm long since over the grieving process.
Creator owned IPs growing in fame from the ground up instead of top down and showing virtuous hero characters is fine by me even if the big corpo-owned characters have to fall by the wayside and fade for it. Let actual goodness shine from somewhere, anywhere it can come from
Cap was more novel since he never had a big movie before, and his actornis more frickable
Zack Snyder is an edgy moron is all
because DC hates good Superman
you know how Marvel hasnt done evil Captain America at all? thats cause they respect their hero
DC just sees Superman as the answer to evil Superman
long gone are the days where Superman is the hero and he has to solve issues by subverting brute force and just being smart, rational, and calm about his heroics
no now hes just walking civil war until he turns evil
fricking tired character
>because DC hates good Superman
>you know how Marvel hasnt done evil Captain America at all? thats cause they respect their hero
Or because Cap just isn't a very credible global threat
honestly, a lot of comic characters are pretty interchangable. most character arguments ("x wouldn't work as y") are pointless justifications of pre-existing stories