>soldiers carefully created with a lack of independent thought to specifically carry out any and all orders without question unless they were of higher rank or spec ops, and even then that was limited
>uhhhh, nah, it was brain chips the whole time that made them do it 🙂
Frick off. What a stupid fricking retcon.
They had to write themselves out of a corner because they made the clones in TCW BFFs with the Jedi so they could quip at each other every other line.
Hack behavior.
The clones were just really loyal to the emperor. Why did they need brain chips? Even SWBF2 touches on this
carefully created with a lack of independent thought
>“Even though they’re clones, clones are people,” Lucas emphasized. “Everybody starts out the same, but in time, as they grow up, they change. One of the keys in doing a movie is you gotta recognize the characters.”
>GEORGE LUCAS: The Jedi won't lead droids. Their whole basis is connecting with the life force. They'd just say, 'That's not the way we operate. We don't function with nonlife-forms." So if there is to be a Republic army, it would have to be an army of humans.
>Filoni: Again, all of these stories originated with George [Lucas], and he wanted to tell the story of Order 66. He seemed very interested in getting into the details of that story and what drives it. So we had a lot of dangerous ground to tread there because how can you tell a story about that? You'd have to try not to give away to the main characters, the Jedi, "Oh, this is all going to fall apart around you!” So the sad thing about it all was the minute we told the story, the minute we had someone start to understand it and explain it to the audience, that character was going to die. Like, there was no way out of it for Fives. There's that sense of sadly impending doom for him. From my earliest conversations with George coming onto Clone Wars, as far back as 2005 when I put to him "What was Order 66, and how did it work?”, he was always connected to the idea that it was somewhat of a Manchurian Candidate concept. When the order goes down, it's not like the clones have a real way to say, "No, I'm not going to do this.”
>unless they were of higher rank or spec ops
Non-canon EU fan-fiction.
>SWBF2
Non-canon EU fan-fiction.
>because they made the clones in TCW BFFs with the Jedi so they could quip at each other every other line.
So, like Revenge of the Sith? Ever watched that movie?
Barriss' age was never specified, and in animation everyone looks younger and slimmer.
Ok, Dave.
Right on time and wasting no time, I see.
I have no memory of this shot lol, why does one of the Clones looks like a different guy
Not him, but that's supposed to be what clones (Jango, more specifically) look like in their 20s.
So a fresh clone, essentially.
Yeah I think I remember them looking more like that in the Kamino scenes during Attack of the Clones. You got a timestamp for this shot?
I just checked and I can't find it. Might be a deleted scene.
Yeah I can't place it and I feel like I know RotS like the back of my hand. It does look a bit spotty.
Disregard that, I suck wieners, I thought from that screenshot they were already on Utapau.
0:51:42
Ah, I remember now. Never noticed the attempt to de-age Temuera Morrison. Like every screenshot, it looks better in motion, but is still not perfect.
I just learned that pic related isn't even Temeura Morrison, it's Bodie Taylor. So is the III shot an attempt to make Morrison look more like Taylor, or is it just a completely digital Taylor? Much to think about.
Taylor also plays Captain Typho, but someone noticed late in development and gave him the eyepatch.
It should be noted that while Clones ”think creatively” and ”obey orders without question”, this doesn’t make them subhuman; it’s the result of genetic engineering and a decade of indoctrination.
Lucas’s quote there is very interesting because it points to the deep jedi racism and hypocrisy (which Obi-wan talks about ”if droids could think, there’d be none of us here”, and jedi do own droid slaves) since droids clearly are alive and do think and speak ”we seem to be made to suffer :(”
Essentially, clones are a thing because the Jedi wanted the right kind of slave.
I still don't get why Yoda was like "Lets totally use this army no one knew existed, and was allegedly commissioned by a Jedi who went missing 10 years ago." And no one looked in to it further.
There was no time for an investigation. If you remember basically once the clone war started on geonisis all the main Jedi Masters were fragmented into going to war. I believe Yoda first went to Kamino and then arrived late to Geonosis. If they stopped Dooku they could have probably avoided the entire clone wars since he was basically leader of the confederacy. But that moron Anakin fricked it up
Jango: Do you like your army?
Obiwan: I look forward to seeing them in action.
Jango: They'll do their job well. I'll guarantee that.
It should be fairly obvious that, in this part of the exchange, these two are not talking about the clone army at all, but about their upcoming battle on the landing platform. Obiwan, in other words, reveals that -he doesn't actually care about the clones and where they come from-; he just wants to kill Jango. That's what prompts Jango to arm himself and flee.
What's interesting is that Jango - like Dooku later - is pretty much completely honest about his motivations, who hired him, and so-on. Obiwan just bungles things because of his unquestioned anti-Seperatism. There's a kind of a shift here, where Jango becomes the more sympathetic character.
>using Filoni as a source
Non-canon furry fan-fiction.
>Ever watched that movie?
You clearly haven't. Quote five jedi/clone quips.
>disney
not my canon
>Trying to give the clones personality
This was a fricking mistake. The only unique clone was supposed to be Boba Fett. The rest is just embarrassing.
cool ps2 cutscene.
Disney prostitutes BTFO. Lucas chads win again
Imagine simping for george lucas
Imaging sucking Mickey Mouse's rancid wiener. Die. Fricking have a nice day. Lucas is KING. Lucas is GOD.
Imagine being proud of supporting someone that gave you the middle finger for your patronage and sold you out to israelites.
The only real Star Wars fans left are the EUchads.
Hey George how it's going?
Many STILL rejected it anyway. why could some clones follow the jedi but the vast majority still follow orders? It makes more sense that clones would follow anakin into the temple because he fought with them rather than 'oh they did order 66 at the temple but didn't kill anakin too because lol yet to be explained.'
That's a rejection of the text. What happens in the film is that the chancellor orders the destruction of the jedi organisation after their attempted coup and the slave army obeys, because that's what it does.
Anakin is not a jedi anymore by this point: "from my point of view the Jedi are evil."
>Anakin is not a jedi anymore by this point: "from my point of view the Jedi are evil."
sorry but that doesn't really fly when we consider ahsoka's O66 scenes. Either palps sent out a code before the temple that anakin shouldn't be killed or that it was programmed into the clones already (literally impossible).
It makes far more sense that Anakin was a hero to the clones and trusted his judgment to execute jedi. The chip not only messes with this but the entire point george was trying to make about republics turning into empires.
George was involved in everything SW. Even other media companies had to meet with him so he can OK it or give feedback. So while he might not have directed many episodes he was certainly there in the meetings (for better or worse). Source is a few interviews with the team that was making the Maul video game. They had to meet with him frequently.
>sorry but that doesn't really fly when we consider ahsoka's O66 scenes
I am talking about the movies here anon, not your delusional fantasies that some other story can override what is on the screen.
What happens in TCW or any other EU story has precisely zero (0) effect on the movie.
>The chip not only messes with this but the entire point george was trying to make about republics turning into empires.
>t. thinks he knows better about George's work, than George himself, who came up with the damn thing
lol
Anakin was literally excluded from Order 66. It can be seen in the Order 66 arc, when Tup is lashing out at Tiplar and Tiplee, but never at Anakin. Anakin was Palpatine's asset since The Phantom Menace. The Jedi literally brought him the Chosen One to corrupt. "We will watch your career with great interest." Clones were ordered right after The Phantom Menace, 10 years before Attack of the Clones.
>George was involved in everything SW. Even other media companies had to meet with him so he can OK it or give feedback.
Not in everything.
>“I am the father of our Star Wars movie world - the filmed entertainment, the features and now the animated film and television series,” he says. “And I’m going to do a live-action television series. Those are all things I am very involved in: I set them up and I train the people and I go through them all. I’m the father; that’s my work. Then we have the licensing group, which does the games, toys and books, and all that other stuff. I call that the son - and the son does pretty much what he wants.” He laughs. “Once in a while, they ask a question like ‘Can we kill off Yoda?’, things like that, but it’s very loose. Then we have the third group, the holy ghost, which is the bloggers and fans. They have created their own world. I worry about the father’s world. The son and holy ghost can go their own way.” — George Lucas, Flannelled One, July 2008
He always differentiated his Star Wars (movies, TCW, Underworld TV show) world from everything else.
>>t. thinks he knows better about George's work, than George himself, who came up with the damn thing
>lol
are you trying to tell me that george is a perfect story teller and there are zero flaws with the PT?
There are some technical flaws and the dialogue could be more polished at times. But he did tell the story he wanted to tell, whether you like it or not. You cannot be the arbiter of something that is subjective by definition. And since 99% of fa/tv/irgins are autistic spergs, surely you think you must be "objectively" right.
But to address your other claim, no, the clones don't really play into the theme of "democracy becoming an Empire" in any way whatsoever, because the main focus was the corrupt senate and Palpatine playing on people's fears, who wanted security in exchange for freedom. The clones were barely of any importance in the films. The clones were literally always blameless and besides the point since day one. They were artificial humans, robbed of free will before they were even born — they were modified, their genes were tampered with, they were implanted with various shit, and their very existence and purpose was defined by the Sith without them ever having any say in the matter. They were a Chekhov's gun. A plot device. Which makes them boring as frick.
I can see why Lucas went with the direction he went on TCW. The seeds of it were already planted in RotS, when he was already pondering the idea of making a TV show. There isn't really anything to contradict, as I had mentioned above, and developing clone troopers further added to the tragedy. Lucas strongly believed the Jedi to be the paragons of virtue and goodness in the Galaxy. Thus it becomes an exploration of nature vs nurture, with the Jedi encouraging and unlocking the clones' individuality. The idea of clones being Manchurian Candidates, sleeping agents, besides obvious noir inspiration that is strongly felt in the PT, is simply much more interesting and dramatic, besides making a lot more sense. It also becomes an exploration of dehumanizing effects of technology and loss of free will, which is prevalent in Lucas' other works, such as THX1138.
These threads are so shit.
I'm guessing the chip has the order 66 programmed into it but there's also an IFF system that allows the order to be wirelessly overridden to exclude certain people
>remember that Jedi woman from the movie, Barris Offee?
>well, she's a kid now because Ahsoka needs a friend
What color is your Bugatti?
I always liked the idea that clones had independent thought but mostly despised the Jedi and their place in the war
My headcanon is that the chip is there just to make sure that the few jedi who had gained their clones' loyalty wouldn't get a change to escape while most of clones did excecute the order 66 without the chip forcing them to.
There's no way to explain why they suddenly become buttholes other than a brain chip.
How does following direct orders from the highest authority equate to them being buttholes?
You are correct. French soldiers following orders and shooting at British and Americans landing in North Africa is a good example of people following orders counter to what you'd expect of them. Their country had been half occupied by Germany, their former allies were landing in their territory, and yet some of them obeyed orders to contest the landings. I wouldn't classify any of those men as being buttholes, just good soldiers.
>There's no way to explain why they suddenly become buttholes other than a brain chip.
you were one of the morons who thought that the death star exhaust port was also a plot hole, weren't you
>be jedi
>stumble on black ops slave farm I was technically in charge of
>guy gives me cool slaves that obey all orders, that I already paid for
>turns out my boss is the devil
>try to kill him and seize power for myself
>satan tells the army to kill me for an attempted coup
>”woah why are my slaves so mean to me?? I thought we were friends :((
Retired Clone Trooper:
>What I remember about the rise of the Empire is... is how quiet it was. During the waning hours of the Clone Wars, the 501st Legion was discreetly transferred back to Coruscant. It was a silent trip. We all knew what was about to happen, what we were about to do. Did we have any doubts? Any private traitorous thoughts? Perhaps, but no one said a word. Not on the flight back to Coruscant, not when Order 66 came down, and not when we marched into the Jedi Temple. Not a word.
quote from Battlefront 2, the original one
I love this quote. It's a nice middle ground between lolbrainchips and Stover's harsh flawless indoctrination.
I'm almost certain the Order 66 wasn't the only Order that the clones knew. There were certainly Order 1, 2 and so forth for all sorts of failsafes to protect the republic. And since in RotS, the Commander of the army IS palpatine, because the jedi order has been transfered to be under direct rule of the chancelors bureau instead of the senate, to speed up the war. But here lies palpatines trick: He's now the alone commander, commanding over jedi generals and their clone soldiers alike. And what happens when the generals are labeled as traitors to the republic with order 66? You listen to the next highest authority figure, which was the chancelor.
In their arrogancve, the jedi didn't think the system they're trying to protect would betray them. Also, that the jedi army is made out of flesh has another reason: Countless lives being sacrificed for essentially nothing, since Palps controls both sides anyways.
The war is just a giant sacrifice ritual to feed the dark side of the force, disturb it's balance and making the jedi not see clearly, clouding their judgement.
An impressive, long-webbed plan set up and strung by palps to ensure a victory for the sith
High IQ post.
Brainlet chipgays will never understand.
>this much effort went into ”order 66 implies 65 other contingency plans” and ”the head of state/government is the supreme commander of the armes forces”.
Yes, because even if you put it into layman's terms, TCWgays still won't get it.
I was easily impressed by Kotor 2 story about mass deaths creating bad echoes in the force or something
Wish sequels would elaborate on this stuff more
Nothing after Revenge of the Sith is canon, anon. You are literally getting mad at high budget fan fiction.
Incorrect, nothing after Star Wars 1977 is canon. All high budget fan fiction with retcons.
>soldiers carefully created with a lack of independent thought to specifically carry out any and all orders without question
That's fricking moronic, how are they supposed to react to all the unpredictable situations that can develop on the battlefield?
What kind of question is that? You expect them to be trained with no-faults foresight?
THIS IS NOW A GENERAL GRIEVOUS GENERAL
>Reminder this is what they took away from you
>Georgie boy gets dabbed on by a children's cartoonist
>Makes THE Clone Wars in retaliation
>5 or 6 seasons of completely bullshit, never once hits the mark like a 3 hour series
Absolute lethal mogging
I can honestly say that I never gave a single frick about Grievous.
Very based
Filoni Grievous is consistent with the movies. Tartakovsky was basically inventing a character with the design from RotS, a movie they hadn't seen yet. Plus cowardly Grievous is so much more interesting than silent badass #225.
>inventing a character
>silent badass #225
You're talking out of your ass hard.
>Filoni Grievous
lol, lmao even
Karen Traviss cope, lmao.
See:
Lucas was in complete control of the original The Clone Wars run, Season 6 was being developed in 2011 already (with 7 and 8 planned), and the talks of a Disney deal hadn't come up until mid-2012. That's besides the point of your "theory" being just completely fricking moronic non-sequitur nonsense.
>lol, lmao even
Please go back to Twitter.
there is one disney Cinemaphile poster who comes here and spouts insults against "EUtists" and makes himself look like a fool
I miss him, bros.
Threadly reminder that Disney asked for the brain chips to be retcon'd in as part of their deal with Lucas. The deal happened in 2012 and the brain chip episode aired in 2011. Part of the issue was that Disney did not want morally grey characters and the clones were too confusing to the next generation of kids who would be growing up on Disney products. Brain chips allowed the writers to maintain the childish humanity to the clones without having them to make the choice to shoot. Not only that, but it was also an easy way to clean the slate, since TCW had been retconning and overwriting content since the start of season 3.
without having to give them the choice to shoot*
That's not a bad theory because the thinking goes like this:
>Lucas made the PT to criticize the OT, and the rebels in particular, through recontextualisation.
>part of this criticism is the fact that Luke owns slaves
>clones are just droids/slaves with a human face, the fact that the republic uses them is extremely bad and unethical. The racism that allows them to excuse this is a direct cause of the clone wars (get it, both sides use slave armies, they're clones)
>therefore, you have to indulge in the fantasy of the -perfect- slave, a slave that is actually subhuman and without free will, i.e. adopting the in-universe racism.
>for droids, this is already imagined through "their programming", which is a mistaken interpretation since their programming is basically just their religion (in ROTJ, C3PO says impersonating a God is against his programming, he proceeds to do so anyway)
>for clones, this has to be imagined through their genetics and a satanic plot.
>While Lucas made the PT to criticize liberalism, Disney has pointedly laser-removed all criticism of liberalism from the ST.
I think its just that Disney didn't want kids to look at a character and not be able to determine if they were good or evil from a glance. The company wants black and white, good vs evil with women leading the way. It's the reason characters like pic related are made, easy to identify, childlike archetypes with absolutely zero moral ambiguity. white man = bad. woman = good.
Not to ignore your idea entirely, because there is merit in it. I remember stories from Republic and some of the other CWMMP stories of how Anakin would see the clones as kindred spirits, since they were also slaves to uncontrollable circumstances. It even goes to show the lengths that Anakin is willing to go out of his way to save the clones, even if it means sacrificing normal people's lives to save them.
The story that pic is from places a white man in a benevolent Father role. Your obsession with race and gender is blinding you as well.
The fact that some EU writers picked up on the fact that the clones are slaves to the republic is neither here nor there. It's simply what is in the movies.
Imagine being this much of a brainrotten /misc/gay that you fail to understand classical mythological archetypes that Star Wars was built on. Imagine not knowing that, from the beginning, the Light Side of the Force was Ashla, the female, and the Dark Side was Bogan, the male. It was literally one of the first things Lucas had conceived when he wrote the first drafts of Star Wars. This is fricking embarrassing. But not surprising, given that EUgays rarely know anything about actual Star Wars. They are sure experts in their second-hand, irrelevant lore, though.
Since when is Star Wars known for being a franchise of moral complexity?
before 2012 apparently
So why did he post a picture of characters that first appeared in an episode released in 2011?
There isn't moral complexity, it just straightforwardly depicts the main characters as bad people that do bad things (like slavery, corruption, assassinations, instigating wars, and other unjust things).
As proof, tell me one good thing a Jedi does in a film that is done for the sake of doing good
Ever since Luke gave his father forgiveness.
Can you say tinfoil hat?
no because my mind isn't trapped inside the windows 98 3d maze like yours
>Threadly reminder that Disney asked for the brain chips to be retcon'd in as part of their deal with Lucas
debatable, the acquisition happened right around the time the lost season was in production, meaning already written.
>prequelshitters forever BTFO by wolffricker filoni
nothing personell
Why did The Clone Wars even exist? Just tell Syfo Deez he's an butthole and turn the other cheek, like true Jedi.
Jesus Christ this thread is embarrassing. Why can't you just pick and choose what you like? I don't know, make a fanzine or some shit. If people 40 years ago could do it then so can you.
I did. People just bust a gasket when they find out that doesn't include TCW for me, for whatever reason.
How the frick can Asoka Virgins recover???
>the first goal of animation is to have good animation
>cant even accomplish that in the first episode
jesus christmas.
Why did they even have the "genocide all Jedi and help the cancellor seize power" order in the first place? Especially if the cancellor alone can give it and they'll obey.
Contingencies. The shady monk order that we are shown lying to the senate (their masters), and who are in effect accountable to no one, might not be that trustworthy.
The overarching point is that the Republic goes into crisis-mode from the fact that it is corrupt and tries to keep member-states in by force, going so far as to give the head of state unlimited power (with the Jedi backing this), and the Jedi try seizing this unlimited power, and are then made the subjects of it.
People always hide behind George Lucas when someone criticizes TCW, but wasn't he only involved in the first two seasons?
No?
He was involved all the way from start to finish, except on season 7 for obvious reasons, because Disney and it was made in 2018. Although it was mostly true to what they had developed with Lucas before the buyout, although some things were changed.
>People always hide behind George Lucas when someone criticizes TCW
No, it's just EUhomosexuals b***hing that the work of George Lucas doesn't line up with their fanfiction. It's not a real criticism. Might as well b***h the prequels didn't line up with Zahn's Clone Wars or many of the Boba Fett comic books. Or people's idea of Darth Vader and Anakin Skywalker they had had in their heads. Futile endeavor. They are mad about the actual work differentiating from their fics, which they think is better, because they think then know better than Lucas, and they never even try to understand the work in the first place - they are comfortable with their faulty interpretations, thus they resort to low-effort bait reddit memes.