The whole show is dark, it's just in season 6 they ramped it up. Throughout the show Tony has people in his social circle killed several times, sometimes he kills them himself and he sits around and nosebreaths as people are grieving the friends and family members who he himself had murdered. When he had Jackie Jr killed and you see Rosalie screaming of sorrow you should realise what kind of show you're watching
Jackie Jr is a bad example. Tony actively tried to keep him away from the mob life. The moment he decided to go through with the robbery his fate was sealed.
Jackie knew the stakes. By choosing him over all of the other crew that wanted him dead, Tony would have been making himself weak, which would have threatened not just the whole crew, but Tony's family also.
This is why he passed the buck to Ralph. Tony had tried to be a good influence, and Ralph was the one who enabled Jackie ultimately. This is why Tony insulating himself from the decision was wise: if Ralph gave him a pass, he doesn't have to eat as much shit from the crew. If Ralph kills him, Tony is less to blame.
>and Ralph was the one who enabled Jackie ultimately
I am not sure if Toneh knew about that.
In fact Ralph kills him before Jackie gives out any hint he gave him the idea.
Only his friend tells christopher before being executed.
This is why I underestimated this show for so long, you have people like this idiot who take everything at face value and project their own values onto the writing when it's not there at all. The show doesn't give a shit if someone is moral or deserves to die, death is just something that happens. Characters aren't rewarded for having a "good" arc by being spared. Most "arcs" on the show are just the protracted results of their existing character flaws which don't change over the whole run. Unironically the wire might be more your speed.
Even with the blatant parallels to Tony hitting Feech's game and being spared because his old man was alive to save his ass unlike Jackie Jr, people will see the show in morality terms rather than the complete luck of the draw Chase depicts as most peoples true fate. I always think of the Ukrainian Philly as a prime example of his way of storytelling. Always a subversion of expectations...
Yeah, he could have worked something out to spare Jackie Jnr but he simply didn't care enough, he wasn't gonna let Jackie cost him anything. He was a sociopath which a lot of people ironically don't want to recognise
To be in the mob life, you have to recognise it, I think Ro deep down knew her "friends" had Jackie killed, which is why she was so sensitive to talking about it with Carm. Carm was the same with And, she knew, she just didn't want to admit it
7 months ago
Anonymous
Literally everyone agrees T is a sociopath. It's his defining trait, other than being fat.
7 months ago
Anonymous
>he wasn't gonna let Jackie cost him anything
I was writing out a longer reply to the moral relativism anon, but this sums it up just fine. The second Jackie impeded on earning, the idiot had to go... but would have been fine to be that dumb of a decision maker in any other business. Junior put it curtly to Tony at Vesuvius after the wake, he was a moron. You can reduce Tony to sociopathic, but I view it more as Jackie Jr not knowing the waters he was wading into unlike a young Tony when he became savvy on being like his father. Yes, Tony made a cold business decision to kill basiccly his Godson, but in that life individuals with a name and a claim can be puppet-ed as Little Carmine was with Rusty. Tony alluded to his hawk like tendency to see 6 steps down the road, and knowing Jackie Jr took to Richie in S2 I always like to think that's partially what motivated Tony to put and end to Jackie Jr moronation once he began to step on toes in that world.
7 months ago
Anonymous
But he left that up to Ralphie.
7 months ago
Anonymous
Alright, legally speaking yes, but much like the Carmine "I didn't say nothing" call, the doublespeak was very present in their conversation in Tony's car after Jackie Jr calls his home.
7 months ago
Anonymous
No, he didn’t.
7 months ago
Anonymous
>I think Ro deep down knew her "friends" had Jackie killed
The second Ralphie started with drugs and blacks she knew... it's the excuse they used any time they talked with outsiders about family related deaths up to that point in the series, so she knew she was getting bullshit.
7 months ago
Anonymous
Yeah, he could have worked something out to spare Jackie Jnr but he simply didn't care enough, he wasn't gonna let Jackie cost him anything. He was a sociopath which a lot of people ironically don't want to recognise
To be in the mob life, you have to recognise it, I think Ro deep down knew her "friends" had Jackie killed, which is why she was so sensitive to talking about it with Carm. Carm was the same with And, she knew, she just didn't want to admit it
>I think Ro deep down knew her "friends" had Jackie killed
yup this moment reflects that
?si=LpmPSJcSp3DZzoeH&t=97
>he wasn't gonna let Jackie cost him anything
I was writing out a longer reply to the moral relativism anon, but this sums it up just fine. The second Jackie impeded on earning, the idiot had to go... but would have been fine to be that dumb of a decision maker in any other business. Junior put it curtly to Tony at Vesuvius after the wake, he was a moron. You can reduce Tony to sociopathic, but I view it more as Jackie Jr not knowing the waters he was wading into unlike a young Tony when he became savvy on being like his father. Yes, Tony made a cold business decision to kill basiccly his Godson, but in that life individuals with a name and a claim can be puppet-ed as Little Carmine was with Rusty. Tony alluded to his hawk like tendency to see 6 steps down the road, and knowing Jackie Jr took to Richie in S2 I always like to think that's partially what motivated Tony to put and end to Jackie Jr moronation once he began to step on toes in that world.
>Jackie Jr moronation
yeah beautiful thing about the sopranos is that even while mocking and shitting all over a character they make sure we understand his positive qualities
?si=jFyxdp0bLPwfsOVV&t=175
too dumb to beat a girl in chess... but he's charming in defeat. lot of guys would have an insecure breakdown after being spanked by a black girl in a strategy game. and of course he thinks a pawn can move further than it's able to representing his hubris
7 months ago
Anonymous
>what happened Ton, Vegas moving the line?
I still think Rosalie was the most underrated smooth operator. She was so much more of a realest when it came to the nature of the life, so I'm sure unlike Carm she put the pieces together that Tony, a boss, would have to give the okay when it came to a Aprille having to go. I also agree about the way characters were shown at their best and their worst, again tying into the moral ambiguity of even the seemingly "bad" characters, and oftentimes arbitrary circumstance deciding their moral classification.
7 months ago
Anonymous
I always thought Rosalie and Kelli Aprile were hot
7 months ago
Anonymous
That Mackenzie Trucillo was a fricking babe, too.
7 months ago
Anonymous
Lol are you some kinda paisan? That women is a solid 5
7 months ago
Anonymous
No, blond/blue Midwesterner. I always liked those dark-eyed Italian girls.
7 months ago
Anonymous
i wish i was white. i wouldn't be a college dropout at 26.
7 months ago
Anonymous
t. Johnny Cakes
7 months ago
Anonymous
kek was not my insinuation, I wouldn't sully Uncle Philly like that, but I think it's the obvious coming out of the closet in the motel and also when he yells at the guy to turn off the bodybuilding competition at Vito's wake.
7 months ago
Anonymous
for
Why does everyone insist Phil was a closet case? Because he got thrills from violence? Many men do.
7 months ago
Anonymous
for
[...]
The closet part maybe, but the bodybuilding thing is just because it's fricking rude, one may even say... a fricking disgrace!
7 months ago
Anonymous
Indeed. There's nothing gay about hell.
7 months ago
Anonymous
that's good!
7 months ago
Anonymous
I can be on time tomorrow but you’ll have bad taste in women forever
7 months ago
Anonymous
Ro and Tony's other sister who was in like 3 episodes were the hottest in the show.
7 months ago
Anonymous
>Kelli
This woman turns me into a feral caveman. Wish she did more shit in the show
7 months ago
Anonymous
>appears >calls out her idiot brother, meadow, and the entire cosa nostra >never seen again
awesome.
7 months ago
Anonymous
I like her haircut
7 months ago
Anonymous
>you shoulda played that out, how you gonna learn?
7 months ago
Anonymous
I've watched Sopranos 4 or 5 times and I never caught on to that, but then again I'm an ESL.
Why is "Vegas moving the line" some sort of dig at Tony and Ro insinuating she knows what's up?
It's been a while since I watched it, but I don't think Tony shot anyone during his robbery, and his dad was still alive/influential. Jackie Jr killed a dealer and shot a made man (Furio), which is basically a death sentence in their world.
>When he had Jackie Jr killed
Technically Ralphie was the one who had Jackie Jr killed, Tony left the decision up to him and Ralphie was the one who ordered the hit.
What’s interesting is Tony never really changes too drastically, but I can’t really articulate why he seems like such a bigger piece of shit in s6 than the previous ones. Because in actuality he starts getting framed like more of a prick in season 5, but season 6 it’s definitely the main point of the season.
I think it has to do with the sense of finality and decay. All the color and life is gone, basically everyone is dead, and Tony is basically the one who was responsible for everything.
>We have this ritual at my house for years, our kids are in boarding school, every night I come from work strip down, jump naked in the pool, Nicole brings me a scotch and water, we sit, relax a little, talk, I go up to bed the air conditioning, she brings me a light dinner on a trey. One night during all that fighting with John, I come home, I'm exhausted, so tired, so tense, I skip the pool, I go right upstairs flop on the bed. Nicole comes up with the drink and she says "darling, I think it's you took a rest", I say '"yeah I'm going to, we'll take a vacation", she says "that's not what I what I meant". "I don't want to be the wealthiest widow on Long Island, I want you to quit, now". >I'm not ashamed to say this, but she made me cry, that wonderful, loving woman. That dream with my father with the empty box, it wasn't about being boss, it was about being happy.
Fricking kino
The problem was he was a poser trying to garner the respect needed to lead and live up to his father. I love the Carmine-isms when he's trying to sound smart. When he embraced who he was he was the most logically sound of all of the men depicted.
He was smarter than anyone on the show
He quit the race for being boss because he knew he wasn't made for it and everyone still respected him as ask him to mediate during conflict between families
Also he claim to have middly success as porn producer and the chris's movie
Oh he was provoked alright, some b***h refused to sleep with him, that was enough.
The dude's mom roasted him in a letter to him.
"You are not an evil human; you are not without intellect and education; you have everything that could make you a credit to human society. Moreover, I am acquainted with your heart and know that few are better, but you are nevertheless irritating and unbearable, and I consider it most difficult to live with you.
'All of your good qualities become obscured by your super-cleverness and are made useless to the world merely because of your rage at wanting to know everything better than others; of wanting to improve and master what you cannot command. With this you embitter the people around you, since no one wants to be improved or enlightened in such a forceful way, least of all by such an insignificant individual as you still are; no one can tolerate being reproved by you, who also still show so many weaknesses yourself, least of all in your adverse manner, which in oracular tones, proclaims this is so and so, without ever supposing an objection.
'If you were less like you, you would only be ridiculous, but thus as you are, you are highly annoying.'"
It's a very different show but the ending pulled no punches and did nothing to soft-pedal how absolutely fricked its characters were (and how it was their own damn fault).
It's a very different show but the ending pulled no punches and did nothing to soft-pedal how absolutely fricked its characters were (and how it was their own damn fault).
I wouldnt call The Shield 'depression fuel' it's just ultra anxiety inducing as the situation spirals progressively further and further out of Strike Team's control throughout the entirety of the series. Then as anon said the end pulls no punches and is crushing in a much more visceral way than Sopranos ending even though they're both trying to show same thing IMO
Sure, there's an overall downhill slide you should expect, but sopranos is much more depressing if you binge it vs. if you watched it on premier. Something something pre- and post-9/11 society yadda yadda
It's an admission that you're living on adrenaline and your whole mind body is out of whack because of unresolved trauma and stress. All those fricks grow up thinking extreme violence against each other is normal, its a show about personality disorders , PTSD and pretending things are normal
Lmao they were sociopaths who extorted money from their own communities when they weren't busy killing civilians and each other until their neighborhoods were completely taken over by Starbucks and blacks.
>Lmao they were sociopaths who extorted money from their own communities when they weren't busy killing civilians and each other until their neighborhoods were completely taken over by Starbucks and blacks.
Get a load of this nerd.
I can't rewatch it honestly because because I see so many similarities between the characters in the show and people in my own life/family. I just watch the funny clips on YouTube.
>I see so many similarities between the characters in the show and people in my own life/family
Um, are you talking about little details of Italian-American culture or are you talking about ruthless violence and crime?
It's been a while since I watched it, but I don't think Tony shot anyone during his robbery, and his dad was still alive/influential. Jackie Jr killed a dealer and shot a made man (Furio), which is basically a death sentence in their world.
You both seem to be making arguments in life for a life when the show proved time and time again the bottom line came down to dollars. The point I am making is Jackie Jr didn't go because Sunshine died or Furio was shot, he died because he was not good for business.
7 months ago
Anonymous
If he hadn't shot anybody you can guarantee he wouldn't of died til later. The business angle is important but it's more than that
7 months ago
Anonymous
>The business angle is important but it's more than that
What are you getting at? Did I miss something?
7 months ago
Anonymous
Nta but in the criminal underworld, not retaliating when members of your organization is shot is considered a major weakness and the wolves would have started circling. Letting it go just because he was muh good kid who made a little mistake was not an option to Tony even if he had wanted to spare his life
I have an aunt that is just like Janice. Irresponsible vagabond that lives in various third world countries always trying to avoid paying her debts and post schizo things on facebook. No one knows where she is, but she was back in the country less than 72 hours after hearing that grandpa had died.
Meh. I watched it all 8 years ago and it was ok. I honestly can't remember much other than fat Italians yelling and killing each other. Doesn't seem like it's worth a rewatch.
No i mean it. There isn't a single bad character on that show and they are all interesting, but there are characters of no real importance or interest on the Sopranos. There is far more to dig into thematically with BSG. It has religion and race and trust, and the role of science and tech in our lives and mortality and ethics. Sopranos is more narrow, and is mostly about Tony and his personality and family in general. I love them both but BSG is the king.
The show represents the peak of America then the rapid decline, ending in the year 2007.
It’s one big metaphor and the commercialized coffee shop scenes in both the first and final seasons are the most blatant subtext.
“This thing of ours” not only refers to the Mafia, but the American dream and by the end of the show, it’s clear that recently it was only a facade.
>the commercialized coffee shop scenes in both the ... final seasons
I don't remember these. can you remind me? I do remember the ones from early seasons
When paulie and patsy try to get the Starbucks or whatever to pay protection and the manager says that he'd just get fired and replace him if that happened so it wouldn't work out cause they're corporatized
>the commercialized coffee shop scenes in both the ... final seasons
I don't remember these. can you remind me? I do remember the ones from early seasons
When Patsy and the other guy go to intimidate the fake Starbucks. The one where Tony sells the chicken store to Skiff.
see
>solid
You mean the definitive takeaway... Patsy literally tells you: "it's over for the little guy"
>Many patients want to be excused for their current predicament because of events that occurred in their childhood. That's what psychiatry has become in America. Visit any shopping mall or ethnic pride parade, and witness the results.
What did he mean by this?
yup it's one of the dumbest most confusing lines in the show.
go to any mall or ethnic pride parade and you're not going to see a single person who has seen a psychiatrist. ever. not once.
maybe a few of them see a social worker once a month to talk about food and housing. maybe.
if you want to see the results of american psychiatry you've gotta' look at an old rich israeli man ironically
and tonecels love to reference it as the ultimate example carm was the evil one... but what's the main message? GET AWAY FROM TONY HE'S A DEMON SAVE WHAT'S LEFT OF YOUR KID'S SOULS
I didn't get it either. What do shopping malls and ethnic pride parades have to do with dodging responsibility and shifting blame?
He’s calling normalgays out as narcissistic Black person cattle
Self-indulgence. Any pride event is simply a reward for being what one is, and shopping is rewarding oneself for what one thinks he deserves.
>Many patients want to be excused for their current predicament because of events that occurred in their childhood. That's what psychiatry has become in America. Visit any shopping mall or ethnic pride parade, and witness the results.
What did he mean by this?
I viewed it in juxtaposition to the coddling of homosexual catholic father, rather than the epitome of truth from some old israelite sage as many seem to be taking it in the thread. Yes, I think the majority can agree with the takeaway of mass hypocrisy and condoning the deplorable as a result of the past is fair and well put by this shrink, but I think he represents another extreme, basically saying Tony is all bad and nonredeemable.
The psychiatry dimension of this show is underappreciated and I want to think about it more next time I rewatch. It's a nice frame for exploring the frustrated development of a man emotionally compromised by his life's circumstances, but it also speaks to the futility of "good intentions" when faced with certain people's circumstances. Characters like Melfi are interesting because she's sat between the community of "professionals" that become insulated from the subjects of their examination, and the mob professionals that become insulated from the subjects of their violence. Two types of potential harm, two communities of people who prey on weakness and make light of the suffering of others.
This is one of my favorite scenes in the show. For a character that only shows up for less than 5 minutes, he was very memorable. Carmella becomes much less sympathetic after this scene, especially when she forgives Tony and embraces the lifestyle fully.
He’s calling normalgays out as narcissistic Black person cattle
Self-indulgence. Any pride event is simply a reward for being what one is, and shopping is rewarding oneself for what one thinks he deserves.
>Many patients want to be excused for their current predicament because of events that occurred in their childhood. That's what psychiatry has become in America. Visit any shopping mall or ethnic pride parade, and witness the results.
What did he mean by this?
I think it is supposed to mean that patients wanting and excuse for their behavior is common and the same impulse is found in the mall and the parade, the impulse to self indulgence, narcissism, excuse making, lack of responsibility, self loathing masked as self love and pride. Talk to a homosexual at a parade and you will find they are deeply unsatisfied with their lives and are rather ashamed.
No, Imperioli had some pretty insightful stuff to say about making the show and what happened behind the scenes. He worte and directed a few episodes, and obviously had a closer relationship with Chase and the other actors. Schirripa would always cut him off with dumb remember when bullshit >DID I'S EVA TELLS YOUS DAY I WAS A BOUNCER AT DA COCO >I TELLS YA DAT ELLEN DEGENERES WHAT A b***h SHE IS SHE PRETENDED NOT TO KNOW ME ONE TIME >I REMEMBER IN DIS ONE SCENE I THEY HAD TO USE A RAINMACHINE BECAUSE... UHHH I DON'T THINK IT WAS RAINING BUT IN DA SCRIPT IT SAID DAT DERE WAS SUPOSED TO BE RAIN... I TELL YA WHAT DAY RAINMACHINE USED A LOT A WATER AND WHEN YOU HAD TO STAND UNDER IT YOU'D GET HEAPS WET
I agree with you. Michael came off really well. He's a smart and thoughtful guy. Steve is a loudmouth buffoon. I had to give up on the podcast because he kept interrupting.
I never listened to the podcast, but didn't people think Imperioli is an insufferable douchebag?
No, Imperioli had some pretty insightful stuff to say about making the show and what happened behind the scenes. He worte and directed a few episodes, and obviously had a closer relationship with Chase and the other actors. Schirripa would always cut him off with dumb remember when bullshit >DID I'S EVA TELLS YOUS DAY I WAS A BOUNCER AT DA COCO >I TELLS YA DAT ELLEN DEGENERES WHAT A b***h SHE IS SHE PRETENDED NOT TO KNOW ME ONE TIME >I REMEMBER IN DIS ONE SCENE I THEY HAD TO USE A RAINMACHINE BECAUSE... UHHH I DON'T THINK IT WAS RAINING BUT IN DA SCRIPT IT SAID DAT DERE WAS SUPOSED TO BE RAIN... I TELL YA WHAT DAY RAINMACHINE USED A LOT A WATER AND WHEN YOU HAD TO STAND UNDER IT YOU'D GET HEAPS WET
The green text you made is in no way an exxageration for anyone that has never heard the podcast. Because of his shit I had to stop, even though Michael has so much to say about each episode. Steve cut him off so many times when he was getting into some great inside details of the Finnerty arc, so much so I almost smashed the screen. Michael may have some homosexual takes and be a political poser, but he obviously has a mind for archetypes, linguistics, and storytelling, so it was a shame Steve made so much about himself and criticized Mike as a crazy person every time he made a point that was not surface level.
there was a surprising amount of cancer victims in the show
like it was shoehorned in there the same way the terrorism stuff is, like it was some sort of newfound thing that everyone was talking about
The show is about a bunch of old fat fricks who live off cigars and nitrates, and you think it's weird that they get cancer?
Realism aside it's also an expression of the ungraceful decline and death theme of the show
Correct, but really its wrong. In war, in chess whatever can go wrong does go wrong. Same with this show. But in life, its not the same. Things do go wrong but its often the least expected thing and tackling the issue is healing in itself. Its the worry about what could go wrong or the paranoia which is the problem. This show plays out all the paranoias because it is a drama.
The show says, anyone with power will abuse it, or even power itself is abuse. Its true in Nietszche and this show but not reality. Are minds easily fall into believing that everything's terrible or create drama when it isn't and there's none there. There was some quote from Mark twain in old age about all the troubles he had all the major problems in his life were imagined. We must recognise cynicism and minimise it in our minds.
Im watching for the first time, im on late season 4 now. Its got a whole depressing atmosphere that wasnt there initially. the house/kitchen just doesnt feel comfy anymore especially with my waifu meadow gone. I dont think im gonna feel so good if it continues to get more depressing bros
yeh the differences between seasons is real jarring. When you finish the series, go right back to episode 1 or 2 and you'll be extremely surprised it's the same show.
Anyone else like how Vito came into the show with his random brother before surprisingly jumping deeper and deeper into the cast. I love his early scenes like in the hospital
shows will never be run that way ever again. an inconsequential former chump who gets shot in the foot by chris respawns as an important side character.
shows will never be run that way ever again. an inconsequential former chump who gets shot in the foot by chris respawns as an important side character.
That's what I thought gino just backed out of the store lol. Be even crazier if he got shot to come back
yeah im probably going to stop my rewatch at season 3 or 4, i already have shit going in my life i don't want to see what i thought was a mostly light show get so grim
>he's never seen Cheers
>theres the coyote
one of my favorite scenes is Paulie sitting down to watch TV with his 'ma.
believe me, there's plenty I'd like to forget
idk what you mean it's the funniest show to me
Its both
Season 6 is really dark.
The whole show is dark, it's just in season 6 they ramped it up. Throughout the show Tony has people in his social circle killed several times, sometimes he kills them himself and he sits around and nosebreaths as people are grieving the friends and family members who he himself had murdered. When he had Jackie Jr killed and you see Rosalie screaming of sorrow you should realise what kind of show you're watching
Jackie Jr is a bad example. Tony actively tried to keep him away from the mob life. The moment he decided to go through with the robbery his fate was sealed.
yeah having your best friend's son killed is no big deal. he killed a card dealer, he deserved to die.
Jackie knew the stakes. By choosing him over all of the other crew that wanted him dead, Tony would have been making himself weak, which would have threatened not just the whole crew, but Tony's family also.
This is why he passed the buck to Ralph. Tony had tried to be a good influence, and Ralph was the one who enabled Jackie ultimately. This is why Tony insulating himself from the decision was wise: if Ralph gave him a pass, he doesn't have to eat as much shit from the crew. If Ralph kills him, Tony is less to blame.
>and Ralph was the one who enabled Jackie ultimately
I am not sure if Toneh knew about that.
In fact Ralph kills him before Jackie gives out any hint he gave him the idea.
Only his friend tells christopher before being executed.
This is why I underestimated this show for so long, you have people like this idiot who take everything at face value and project their own values onto the writing when it's not there at all. The show doesn't give a shit if someone is moral or deserves to die, death is just something that happens. Characters aren't rewarded for having a "good" arc by being spared. Most "arcs" on the show are just the protracted results of their existing character flaws which don't change over the whole run. Unironically the wire might be more your speed.
Even with the blatant parallels to Tony hitting Feech's game and being spared because his old man was alive to save his ass unlike Jackie Jr, people will see the show in morality terms rather than the complete luck of the draw Chase depicts as most peoples true fate. I always think of the Ukrainian Philly as a prime example of his way of storytelling. Always a subversion of expectations...
Yeah, he could have worked something out to spare Jackie Jnr but he simply didn't care enough, he wasn't gonna let Jackie cost him anything. He was a sociopath which a lot of people ironically don't want to recognise
To be in the mob life, you have to recognise it, I think Ro deep down knew her "friends" had Jackie killed, which is why she was so sensitive to talking about it with Carm. Carm was the same with And, she knew, she just didn't want to admit it
Literally everyone agrees T is a sociopath. It's his defining trait, other than being fat.
>he wasn't gonna let Jackie cost him anything
I was writing out a longer reply to the moral relativism anon, but this sums it up just fine. The second Jackie impeded on earning, the idiot had to go... but would have been fine to be that dumb of a decision maker in any other business. Junior put it curtly to Tony at Vesuvius after the wake, he was a moron. You can reduce Tony to sociopathic, but I view it more as Jackie Jr not knowing the waters he was wading into unlike a young Tony when he became savvy on being like his father. Yes, Tony made a cold business decision to kill basiccly his Godson, but in that life individuals with a name and a claim can be puppet-ed as Little Carmine was with Rusty. Tony alluded to his hawk like tendency to see 6 steps down the road, and knowing Jackie Jr took to Richie in S2 I always like to think that's partially what motivated Tony to put and end to Jackie Jr moronation once he began to step on toes in that world.
But he left that up to Ralphie.
Alright, legally speaking yes, but much like the Carmine "I didn't say nothing" call, the doublespeak was very present in their conversation in Tony's car after Jackie Jr calls his home.
No, he didn’t.
>I think Ro deep down knew her "friends" had Jackie killed
The second Ralphie started with drugs and blacks she knew... it's the excuse they used any time they talked with outsiders about family related deaths up to that point in the series, so she knew she was getting bullshit.
>I think Ro deep down knew her "friends" had Jackie killed
yup this moment reflects that
?si=LpmPSJcSp3DZzoeH&t=97
>Jackie Jr moronation
yeah beautiful thing about the sopranos is that even while mocking and shitting all over a character they make sure we understand his positive qualities
?si=jFyxdp0bLPwfsOVV&t=175
too dumb to beat a girl in chess... but he's charming in defeat. lot of guys would have an insecure breakdown after being spanked by a black girl in a strategy game. and of course he thinks a pawn can move further than it's able to representing his hubris
>what happened Ton, Vegas moving the line?
I still think Rosalie was the most underrated smooth operator. She was so much more of a realest when it came to the nature of the life, so I'm sure unlike Carm she put the pieces together that Tony, a boss, would have to give the okay when it came to a Aprille having to go. I also agree about the way characters were shown at their best and their worst, again tying into the moral ambiguity of even the seemingly "bad" characters, and oftentimes arbitrary circumstance deciding their moral classification.
I always thought Rosalie and Kelli Aprile were hot
That Mackenzie Trucillo was a fricking babe, too.
Lol are you some kinda paisan? That women is a solid 5
No, blond/blue Midwesterner. I always liked those dark-eyed Italian girls.
i wish i was white. i wouldn't be a college dropout at 26.
t. Johnny Cakes
kek was not my insinuation, I wouldn't sully Uncle Philly like that, but I think it's the obvious coming out of the closet in the motel and also when he yells at the guy to turn off the bodybuilding competition at Vito's wake.
for
The closet part maybe, but the bodybuilding thing is just because it's fricking rude, one may even say... a fricking disgrace!
Indeed. There's nothing gay about hell.
that's good!
I can be on time tomorrow but you’ll have bad taste in women forever
Ro and Tony's other sister who was in like 3 episodes were the hottest in the show.
>Kelli
This woman turns me into a feral caveman. Wish she did more shit in the show
>appears
>calls out her idiot brother, meadow, and the entire cosa nostra
>never seen again
awesome.
I like her haircut
>you shoulda played that out, how you gonna learn?
I've watched Sopranos 4 or 5 times and I never caught on to that, but then again I'm an ESL.
Why is "Vegas moving the line" some sort of dig at Tony and Ro insinuating she knows what's up?
>The moment he decided to go through with the robbery his fate was sealed.
Why wasn't Tony's fate sealed the night of Feech's robbery?
It's been a while since I watched it, but I don't think Tony shot anyone during his robbery, and his dad was still alive/influential. Jackie Jr killed a dealer and shot a made man (Furio), which is basically a death sentence in their world.
It was a different time
>When he had Jackie Jr killed
Technically Ralphie was the one who had Jackie Jr killed, Tony left the decision up to him and Ralphie was the one who ordered the hit.
Also Tony thought Ralphie was gonna give him a pass
What’s interesting is Tony never really changes too drastically, but I can’t really articulate why he seems like such a bigger piece of shit in s6 than the previous ones. Because in actuality he starts getting framed like more of a prick in season 5, but season 6 it’s definitely the main point of the season.
I think it has to do with the sense of finality and decay. All the color and life is gone, basically everyone is dead, and Tony is basically the one who was responsible for everything.
>We have this ritual at my house for years, our kids are in boarding school, every night I come from work strip down, jump naked in the pool, Nicole brings me a scotch and water, we sit, relax a little, talk, I go up to bed the air conditioning, she brings me a light dinner on a trey. One night during all that fighting with John, I come home, I'm exhausted, so tired, so tense, I skip the pool, I go right upstairs flop on the bed. Nicole comes up with the drink and she says "darling, I think it's you took a rest", I say '"yeah I'm going to, we'll take a vacation", she says "that's not what I what I meant". "I don't want to be the wealthiest widow on Long Island, I want you to quit, now".
>I'm not ashamed to say this, but she made me cry, that wonderful, loving woman. That dream with my father with the empty box, it wasn't about being boss, it was about being happy.
Fricking kino
>character known for being moronic
>gets the longest monologue in the entire show
>character known for being moronic
>He was actually the smartest guy
The problem was he was a poser trying to garner the respect needed to lead and live up to his father. I love the Carmine-isms when he's trying to sound smart. When he embraced who he was he was the most logically sound of all of the men depicted.
He was smarter than anyone on the show
He quit the race for being boss because he knew he wasn't made for it and everyone still respected him as ask him to mediate during conflict between families
Also he claim to have middly success as porn producer and the chris's movie
Because he wasn't moronic anon. He knew what was important and tried to share it but Tony wouldn't listen
He tried to trick Tony into slowing down so he could grab more
He fricking won. We might make it, clinical morons.
>don't you love me, Uncle June?
>"present day", heh
>"present time", ahaha get a load of this butthole afongol
>club cyberia, whatever happened there?
All these early 2000s "gritty" shows are depression fuel that lead to severe pessimism .
Nihilism.. whatever happened there..
Whatever happened there?! That butthole Schopenhauer took all the optimism out of western philosophy with no provocation whatsoever!
Oh he was provoked alright, some b***h refused to sleep with him, that was enough.
The dude's mom roasted him in a letter to him.
"You are not an evil human; you are not without intellect and education; you have everything that could make you a credit to human society. Moreover, I am acquainted with your heart and know that few are better, but you are nevertheless irritating and unbearable, and I consider it most difficult to live with you.
'All of your good qualities become obscured by your super-cleverness and are made useless to the world merely because of your rage at wanting to know everything better than others; of wanting to improve and master what you cannot command. With this you embitter the people around you, since no one wants to be improved or enlightened in such a forceful way, least of all by such an insignificant individual as you still are; no one can tolerate being reproved by you, who also still show so many weaknesses yourself, least of all in your adverse manner, which in oracular tones, proclaims this is so and so, without ever supposing an objection.
'If you were less like you, you would only be ridiculous, but thus as you are, you are highly annoying.'"
Is The Shield a good example of this?
It's a very different show but the ending pulled no punches and did nothing to soft-pedal how absolutely fricked its characters were (and how it was their own damn fault).
I wouldnt call The Shield 'depression fuel' it's just ultra anxiety inducing as the situation spirals progressively further and further out of Strike Team's control throughout the entirety of the series. Then as anon said the end pulls no punches and is crushing in a much more visceral way than Sopranos ending even though they're both trying to show same thing IMO
>pessimism
Is it really that or is just realizing circumstances and clown world truly has got us down?
For me, it's Mad Men
Sure, there's an overall downhill slide you should expect, but sopranos is much more depressing if you binge it vs. if you watched it on premier. Something something pre- and post-9/11 society yadda yadda
>wheres my arc?
quistopher was literally me
>just the fricking regularness of life is too fricking hard for me or something idk...
is it wrong to identify with this line?
It's an admission that you're living on adrenaline and your whole mind body is out of whack because of unresolved trauma and stress. All those fricks grow up thinking extreme violence against each other is normal, its a show about personality disorders , PTSD and pretending things are normal
>You ever feel like nothin' good was gonna happen to you?
>And nothing did. So what!
Paulie was something else
At what point did you realize that they were all good guys doing their best, and that society was unfairly against them?
Lmao they were sociopaths who extorted money from their own communities when they weren't busy killing civilians and each other until their neighborhoods were completely taken over by Starbucks and blacks.
>Lmao they were sociopaths who extorted money from their own communities when they weren't busy killing civilians and each other until their neighborhoods were completely taken over by Starbucks and blacks.
Get a load of this nerd.
I can't rewatch it honestly because because I see so many similarities between the characters in the show and people in my own life/family. I just watch the funny clips on YouTube.
>I see so many similarities between the characters in the show and people in my own life/family
Um, are you talking about little details of Italian-American culture or are you talking about ruthless violence and crime?
My mother is exactly like Carmella.
lucky, my mother is exactly like Livia
Oh, poor you!
I was making a joke!
Same.
Tony didn't kill anybody
You both seem to be making arguments in life for a life when the show proved time and time again the bottom line came down to dollars. The point I am making is Jackie Jr didn't go because Sunshine died or Furio was shot, he died because he was not good for business.
If he hadn't shot anybody you can guarantee he wouldn't of died til later. The business angle is important but it's more than that
>The business angle is important but it's more than that
What are you getting at? Did I miss something?
Nta but in the criminal underworld, not retaliating when members of your organization is shot is considered a major weakness and the wolves would have started circling. Letting it go just because he was muh good kid who made a little mistake was not an option to Tony even if he had wanted to spare his life
I have an aunt that is just like Janice. Irresponsible vagabond that lives in various third world countries always trying to avoid paying her debts and post schizo things on facebook. No one knows where she is, but she was back in the country less than 72 hours after hearing that grandpa had died.
My sister is Janice. And now she's back and she's one of us and she wants her piece.. WELL I GOT THE SCARS! SO IT'S MINE!
She has rare but incredibly hot sex scenes with your NTR antagonist ugly bastard father?
>My mother is exactly like Carmella.
not that she gets any credit for it.
Whitecaps gave me PTSD. It's like mom and dad were fighting again.
Pretty sure that episode is Edie Falco’s best performance she’s ever given. Such a realistic fight.
It's the best performance in all of television. Prove me wrong.
For females Id say definitely
also the fight they have in the theater where Carm admits to being in love with Furio was peak Falco and Gandolfini
same. literally made me upset it was so good
Meh. I watched it all 8 years ago and it was ok. I honestly can't remember much other than fat Italians yelling and killing each other. Doesn't seem like it's worth a rewatch.
filtered
just watch the recap
This is priceless.
I don't remember what you are talking about.
Very observant, anon
The sacred AND the propane.
There's not one show that's better
Mad Men, Breaking Bad, Power Rangers, Squid Game. Uh oh looks like you got debunked, kid.
you know in this scene to get a genuine laugh out Gandolfini bacala wore a dildo on his head. is from talking sopranos
Just finished my rewatch today. I hope your post is a troll so that you are going to redo it, it is great.
I would argue Battlestar Galactica is better.
>I would argue Battlestar Galactica is better
Are you literally braindead?
t. someone that loves bsg
No i mean it. There isn't a single bad character on that show and they are all interesting, but there are characters of no real importance or interest on the Sopranos. There is far more to dig into thematically with BSG. It has religion and race and trust, and the role of science and tech in our lives and mortality and ethics. Sopranos is more narrow, and is mostly about Tony and his personality and family in general. I love them both but BSG is the king.
Okay so you're braindead
Discontinue the lithium
The show represents the peak of America then the rapid decline, ending in the year 2007.
It’s one big metaphor and the commercialized coffee shop scenes in both the first and final seasons are the most blatant subtext.
“This thing of ours” not only refers to the Mafia, but the American dream and by the end of the show, it’s clear that recently it was only a facade.
To the victor belongs the spoils
My favorite reply so far. It's mergers and acquisitions and the soul is on the chopping block.
It's funny how this sounds like typical chuddy schizo post but it's actually a solid takeaway from the show. Sopranos is frickin great
>solid
You mean the definitive takeaway... Patsy literally tells you: "it's over for the little guy"
>the commercialized coffee shop scenes in both the ... final seasons
I don't remember these. can you remind me? I do remember the ones from early seasons
pls can someone answer about the coffeeshop scenes in later seasons??
When paulie and patsy try to get the Starbucks or whatever to pay protection and the manager says that he'd just get fired and replace him if that happened so it wouldn't work out cause they're corporatized
oh now I remember, yeah, thanks
see
When Patsy and the other guy go to intimidate the fake Starbucks. The one where Tony sells the chicken store to Skiff.
Alright, but you gotta get over it
Season 6b is so tight and perfect. Every scene is great. They introduce a new characters seemingly up until the end.
Do you finally enjoy the Finnerty arc?
>Many patients want to be excused for their current predicament because of events that occurred in their childhood. That's what psychiatry has become in America. Visit any shopping mall or ethnic pride parade, and witness the results.
What did he mean by this?
More evidence that the entire series is a metaphor for the social decline of the United States.
Chase or the writer soapboxing in the middle of a great season.
yup it's one of the dumbest most confusing lines in the show.
go to any mall or ethnic pride parade and you're not going to see a single person who has seen a psychiatrist. ever. not once.
maybe a few of them see a social worker once a month to talk about food and housing. maybe.
if you want to see the results of american psychiatry you've gotta' look at an old rich israeli man ironically
and tonecels love to reference it as the ultimate example carm was the evil one... but what's the main message? GET AWAY FROM TONY HE'S A DEMON SAVE WHAT'S LEFT OF YOUR KID'S SOULS
I viewed it in juxtaposition to the coddling of homosexual catholic father, rather than the epitome of truth from some old israelite sage as many seem to be taking it in the thread. Yes, I think the majority can agree with the takeaway of mass hypocrisy and condoning the deplorable as a result of the past is fair and well put by this shrink, but I think he represents another extreme, basically saying Tony is all bad and nonredeemable.
Multiple entire episodes of the show are Chase soapboaxing. “Christopher” for example
That was written by Michael Imperioli
Top five moments of the show for me.
The psychiatry dimension of this show is underappreciated and I want to think about it more next time I rewatch. It's a nice frame for exploring the frustrated development of a man emotionally compromised by his life's circumstances, but it also speaks to the futility of "good intentions" when faced with certain people's circumstances. Characters like Melfi are interesting because she's sat between the community of "professionals" that become insulated from the subjects of their examination, and the mob professionals that become insulated from the subjects of their violence. Two types of potential harm, two communities of people who prey on weakness and make light of the suffering of others.
This is one of my favorite scenes in the show. For a character that only shows up for less than 5 minutes, he was very memorable. Carmella becomes much less sympathetic after this scene, especially when she forgives Tony and embraces the lifestyle fully.
I didn't get it either. What do shopping malls and ethnic pride parades have to do with dodging responsibility and shifting blame?
He’s calling normalgays out as narcissistic Black person cattle
Self-indulgence. Any pride event is simply a reward for being what one is, and shopping is rewarding oneself for what one thinks he deserves.
I think it is supposed to mean that patients wanting and excuse for their behavior is common and the same impulse is found in the mall and the parade, the impulse to self indulgence, narcissism, excuse making, lack of responsibility, self loathing masked as self love and pride. Talk to a homosexual at a parade and you will find they are deeply unsatisfied with their lives and are rather ashamed.
>israeli.jpg
It still gets talked about here. It's a classic.
You think that's depressing? My life's so depressing I willingly watch other people react to this show in its entirety. I've done it more than once.
Which ones?
I'd watch the one with Michael imperioli and I have a very rounded life
Too bad the Steve Schirripa ruined that podcast with his inane bullshit. There's easily a 40+ IQ difference between those two guys.
I never listened to the podcast, but didn't people think Imperioli is an insufferable douchebag?
No, Imperioli had some pretty insightful stuff to say about making the show and what happened behind the scenes. He worte and directed a few episodes, and obviously had a closer relationship with Chase and the other actors. Schirripa would always cut him off with dumb remember when bullshit
>DID I'S EVA TELLS YOUS DAY I WAS A BOUNCER AT DA COCO
>I TELLS YA DAT ELLEN DEGENERES WHAT A b***h SHE IS SHE PRETENDED NOT TO KNOW ME ONE TIME
>I REMEMBER IN DIS ONE SCENE I THEY HAD TO USE A RAINMACHINE BECAUSE... UHHH I DON'T THINK IT WAS RAINING BUT IN DA SCRIPT IT SAID DAT DERE WAS SUPOSED TO BE RAIN... I TELL YA WHAT DAY RAINMACHINE USED A LOT A WATER AND WHEN YOU HAD TO STAND UNDER IT YOU'D GET HEAPS WET
Well he did a good job playing a character that was much less moronic I'll give him that, he's nothing like bobby
>virgin moltesanti gen xer carrying about autistic details
>CHAD BACCALLA BOOMER TALKING ABOUT SAUSAGE AND SCHFUAEDEL!
Michael should have perhaps done the show by himself then, he sounds like a smart guy.
Vito's actor should have been the co-host, he would have done a better job.
Vito's actors sells signed photos of himself (with Michael and James ofc) out of his car
I agree with you. Michael came off really well. He's a smart and thoughtful guy. Steve is a loudmouth buffoon. I had to give up on the podcast because he kept interrupting.
The green text you made is in no way an exxageration for anyone that has never heard the podcast. Because of his shit I had to stop, even though Michael has so much to say about each episode. Steve cut him off so many times when he was getting into some great inside details of the Finnerty arc, so much so I almost smashed the screen. Michael may have some homosexual takes and be a political poser, but he obviously has a mind for archetypes, linguistics, and storytelling, so it was a shame Steve made so much about himself and criticized Mike as a crazy person every time he made a point that was not surface level.
That is too bad. Maybe Imperioli should do his own podcast or something and just interview interesting people in the biz.
He's too busy parading around for troonys
Imagine if Gandolfini didn't die. I wonder what their relationship would be like right now.
what are some uplifting shows?
Frasier
Sopranos
six feet under is literally episode after episode of grief and heartbreak and the ending is nothing but that
definitely not as good as sopranos either
>its a janice dominant episode
there was a surprising amount of cancer victims in the show
like it was shoehorned in there the same way the terrorism stuff is, like it was some sort of newfound thing that everyone was talking about
Cancer is very real and affects most people by a certain age.
>most
It's actually half, but close enough.
Who else beside Jonny Sack had cancer?
Pussys wife thought she did
Yeah fair enough I forgot about all of that, although I think Pussy's wife was just bullshitting for sympathy.
she would never
jackie aprile & junior. did you watch the show?
litterally tony?
and paulie?
don't forget Paulie
>Bompensero wife cancer scare
>Jackie stage 5 something
>Junior stomach
>Tony skin cancer
>Russ prostate
>Paulie prostate
>Johnny Sack lung
The show is about a bunch of old fat fricks who live off cigars and nitrates, and you think it's weird that they get cancer?
Realism aside it's also an expression of the ungraceful decline and death theme of the show
Correct, but really its wrong. In war, in chess whatever can go wrong does go wrong. Same with this show. But in life, its not the same. Things do go wrong but its often the least expected thing and tackling the issue is healing in itself. Its the worry about what could go wrong or the paranoia which is the problem. This show plays out all the paranoias because it is a drama.
The show says, anyone with power will abuse it, or even power itself is abuse. Its true in Nietszche and this show but not reality. Are minds easily fall into believing that everything's terrible or create drama when it isn't and there's none there. There was some quote from Mark twain in old age about all the troubles he had all the major problems in his life were imagined. We must recognise cynicism and minimise it in our minds.
YOU WANT A TWENTY FOUR HOUR HARD wiener?
BLUE CHEW DOT COM
Im watching for the first time, im on late season 4 now. Its got a whole depressing atmosphere that wasnt there initially. the house/kitchen just doesnt feel comfy anymore especially with my waifu meadow gone. I dont think im gonna feel so good if it continues to get more depressing bros
It only gets darker. Sorry, bro.
Good job noticing the gradual change in color tone though
>maedo
>waifu
it was as if he were looking at walking garbage
yeh the differences between seasons is real jarring. When you finish the series, go right back to episode 1 or 2 and you'll be extremely surprised it's the same show.
it's a cascade of things and it was done so gradually, very well done. no cartoony shit hits the fan moment like in Breaking Bad.
>90% of the show is unintentional sit down comedy
>9% is family issues
>1% is actual mafia stuff
>unintentional sit down comedy
>unintentional
You ever compare Tony and Silvio at their girls soccer game to any time after they killed Pussy? Hard to believe it's the same show...
Why does everyone insist Phil was a closet case? Because he got thrills from violence? Many men do.
I like the character too much to even humor the notion. He hated gays cause he was forced around it in prison for 20 years
He is my favourite. I would have loved a spin off of just this guy. Goodship lollipop was my favourite line.
there is a close frame shot of his hand literally grabbing the sheets as they start fricking vito in the ass
You can hear that they are hitting him, hence the meaty thwack!
He literally was hiding in the closet
Idiotic to think that confirms anything.
He jerked off on the radiator in prison. that's gay
Also, notice how he gets agitated at his wife talking about how Vito's life was being talked about by the priest before he had his heart attack.
Plus his attack on Johnny Sack about crying when he was crying in the hospital.
>when you try to make some friends and they just keep you around for entertainment. like a dancing bear
Adrianna is now on Only Fans, you can subscribe and pay to see her 45+ year old ass
I know this will get shit, but she always looked like a troony. All the Soprano women were more attractive than her.
body rocks, but face is trash. Really wish she'd dyked out with that tennis coach though
Girl from D-Girl is peak.
I fapped too many times to the d-girl chick. I'm actually surprised she didn't do nudity scenes often.
That's not true and you know it.
>Adrianna is now on Only Fans,
Look it up
has anyone got leaks? I used coomer.su but that couldn't find the username correctly. I need to see them.
Wrong.
genuinely thought this was chubby bailey jay from the thumbnail kek
would
If shes not selling sopranos branded Aid's Fart Jars im not interested.
>Somebodies got Aid's!
Anyone else like how Vito came into the show with his random brother before surprisingly jumping deeper and deeper into the cast. I love his early scenes like in the hospital
shows will never be run that way ever again. an inconsequential former chump who gets shot in the foot by chris respawns as an important side character.
he wasn't shot, he was the patron to the pastry shop
That's what I thought gino just backed out of the store lol. Be even crazier if he got shot to come back
you're right, still insane how a literal extra became an actual character.
Martyn Lannister in GoT became Tommen Baratheon.
>WAVE BYE BYE JANNY
>tfw ywn see the s2 episode where Janice teaches Anthony Jr sex
>you got em all fooled
>y-yeah that's right
God the signs with junior were way too early. Top character
I saw my grandfather get destroyed by dementia and this kills me every time God damn it.
This show didnt make much sense. How was the FBI unable to make a case against Tony with practically his entire crew in witness protection?
It's the most le heckin reddit show I've ever seen le heckin
What would've happened had Gigi not died on toilet. I want your guys takes
For starters. Ralph would have been whacked much sooner.
Bobbychads, assemble.
Bobby's dad had cancer too did we list that one?
I always felt super bad for his death scene but knowing how the actor is irl it lightens the pain
How is he? I havent watched a podcast on my life
He's a real life pompous Italian lug, like a sopranos character that isn't him
A genuine moron
Its also one of the funniest shows ever. Lightning in a bottle.
Only season 6.
the most depressing part is when tony takes the picture down off of paulie's wall and paulie tells him that he never comes around to see him anymore
I WANTED TO FRICK A GRILLED CHEESE, BUT I COMPROMISED; I JACKED OFF IN A WOMAN
okay but you gotta get over it
that's why you never had the makings of a varsity athlete
>Sopranos is the most depressing show i've ever seen
well ya had to be there.
mob life is dark as frick. you take a blood oath with a saint burning in your hand, your soul is cursed
frickin queers
just about to wrap up a rewatch, last 2 episodes now @ https://bongstream.live/north/
yeah im probably going to stop my rewatch at season 3 or 4, i already have shit going in my life i don't want to see what i thought was a mostly light show get so grim