Great cast of bad guys, so let's talk about them. Post your favorites, the seldom used, and the outright forgotten. I'll start.
Have we ever established why Kraven fixates so much on Spidey specifically? Has Sergei ever shown interest in hunting guys like Black Panther, Wolverine, Sabretooth, or The Wendigo?
Black Panther: yes, in BP comics
Wolverine: no
Sabertooth: they were actually teammates in the 1950s.
Wendigo: no.
I'm aware of the Black Panther comic, wasn't it just a happy accident Kraven rolled with? I ask about these characters because they seem right up Kraven's alley for a good hunt
>Sabertooth: they were actually teammates in the 1950s.
Sabertooth and Kraven were teammates in the 50s? Where was that shown?
Avengers 1959.
Wolverine did fight Kraven in the recent X-Force. It was an unbelievably underwhelming fight.
It was his clone-son.
Kraven also fought Old Man Logan
Thoughts on Sandman? He's now confirmed crazy, William Baker's schizo alter-ego being Flint Marko
they should make him a Fantastic Four villain again
Now I'm thinking of the time Sandman snuck into a hospital and past a wall of heroes just to sneak a hospitalized Ben Grimm a six-pack of beer.
Why? He's a Spidey villain.
I had no idea that was a thing. I knew Flint Marko was an alias he came up with but not that it was a second personality
It's a recent thing
Oh ok that makes more sense
The fact that their clothes merge with their elements is funny to me.
It’s very convenient
A science thing turned him into living sand controllable by his will, but that can retain his image when necessary. The same thing happened to the clothes.
Don't be so cynical!
I'm not. I genuiely find that hilarious
Ain't them basically naked all the timeand the clothes just them manipulating their appereance?
Despite being the fifth(?) Beetle, I kinda dig Janice Lincoln as the go-to Beetle now for modern books.
>I kinda dig Janice Lincoln as the go-to Beetle now for modern books.
What about adaptations?
>What about adaptations?
What about them? I care more about comics and the characters themselves anyway
>I care more about comics
Why?
My favorites are
Shocker because in the PS1 game he was very menacing sounding and cool https://youtu.be/hRLp5pDI8Aw?si=xeDoc1OiWjE-tdpQ&t=78; I wish he wasn't the dedicated punching bag . I really like his costume and colors
Hobgoblin (probably the coolest looking villain ever)
Lizard and Carnage
Because they are cool
>I wish he wasn't the dedicated punching bag
I'm starting to think that it's less about the look of the costume and more that he's padded like a punching bag. But in my heart I know Herman is a very capable thief and supervillain who can dish out earthquakes
I'm not with you on Hobgoblin. In fact, I hate Hobgoblin, I'm sorry. But that's me
The fact so many people shill Jackson Bruce in art or stuff despite being an utterly nothing character while Herman Schultz has so much personality and history to him makes me sad
>The fact so many people shill Jackson Bruce
It's Brice, and Montana was only Shocker in ONE thing, it was Spectacular Spider-Man. There's only one fricking Shocker
fricking phone is so shit, I spelled Bryce. Anyway yeah I don't get why people like that version so much when it's Herman every other time and he is infinitely more interesting and entertaining
I hate it because it fricks up The Enforcers.
I never liked them given any powers at all, I always preferred them as just normies who are competent enough to stand out in the world of superheroes but still outclassed by most heroes and other villains.
Kind of underdog group.
yeah they do work better as villains that are strictly crime level and never get like Slyde, Shocker or Trapster level of criminal where they can actually face hero's outside that field, they were one of the only villains Bendis actually wrote well funny enough to. They fit in well with guys like Hammerhead, Silvermane and Kingpin who have to adapt to the greater evolution of crime brought by costumes and powers or risk being a relic of the old way of crime.
The Spectacular cartoon did a lot of weird stuff we don't normally talk about. Furry Kraven, Nerd Gwen, etc. Now casuals act like Montana is a legit Shocker, even reference it in Homecoming when the filmmakers clearly weren't trying to reference that.
Point is, Montana is an Enforcer, and The Enforcers are best as 3 normal thugs working in organized crime.
Ever get the feeling like Hydro-Man doesn't get the presence he should in Spider-Man books?
Dude's pretty OP. He can go full Perfect Chaos and flood the whole city.
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Yeah, I really like him For some reason, I can't put a finger on it
It's a decent theme/power with a lot of practical uses and possibilities. That and a water villain really fits the Itsy Bitsy song
>next issue the exciting debut of Spidey's greatest villain: WATER SPOUT
If they could make him stand out, I'd welcome it. Assuming they won't rip TAS off.
I personally absolutely hate the "obsessive stalker simp" villains, they're just lame to me which is why I never liked 94 cartoon version.
Everyday. Sandman but water should be taken advantage of yet never is. Picrel showcased how can be done for like 2 decades and I know writers have done cool things with Sandman.
the most underrated
I would just like to point out that The Spot was always cool, even before that movie. He should really start popping up in ASM more often. Last time we saw him, Kingpin had him chained up and hooked to a device to essentially create portable prisons
He was cool in Spidey 94, but because Hollywood writers think his name's lame or whatever, they treat him like a joke.
Comic writers just don't know what to do with Spot or Shocker for some reason. Same could be said for Scorpion. Basically anyone who is just a thief at heart
>Basically anyone who is just a thief at heart
Scorpion isn't though.
He kinda is. Outside of having resentment towards Jonah, he's just a hired thug and a crook
>but because Hollywood writers think his name's lame or whatever, they treat him like a joke.
I mean, didn't Spidey lose his shit when they first met and Spot told him his villain name?
Correct. Spot was on Kingpin's payroll, had the accident, tried to be a big man supervillain, then got laughed in his face by Peter.
Poor guy can't catch a break.
Which they should play into that and do a cool story with Peter. Wells is leaving the book
Chameleon is an odd character that works for spy stories, not really a physical threat
Oh hey I commed that pic, honestly sometime should get back to spidey villain comms n stuff since last I did was Scorpion. If you see any Shocker X Scorpia stuff I'm most likely why it's there
Hobgoblin is one of my favorite villains and i wish adaptations used him more (and not as a Harry identity).
I'll always prefer Green Goblin personally
Crime Master. Has a load of potential as a character for being a simultaneous critique and support for objectivism. Can be menacing as a villain by having a whole support network of criminals who are well trained and can disappear into crowds through masks. Identity of this new crime master should not matter, only that he was once a small time crook that now has started an empire. Maybe he robs evil companies like Roxxon so that he can gain more supporters on the internet or the public in general. Uses it as an excuse to rid society of corruption when he really just wants more control, money, and revenge against people who wronged him.
>can disappear into crowds through masks
Like the Chameleon.
>Chameleon
True.
But that is just one aspect of my idea. I think an objectivist spin to Joker's one bad day idea could be good. One bad day being that Crime Master thinks people can easily turn to crime for their ends and that everyone is out for themselves. So he's an objectivist in that sense but objectivism also could paint Crime Master as a bad guy as well as his imperfect system of crime can lead to inefficiencies and people serving his interests failing to do so which runs counter to his self interest. In that sense objectivism can be supported. Either eay him disappearing into crowds alongside his mooks ties into crime potentially being everywhere and evil springing from anyone at anytime. Spider-Man has become objective himself and look into people more deeply to figure out who he can trust.
Anyway, yeah Chameleon is cool and should be used in exciting ways. Especially considering deepfakes, a.i., and how he hasn't used clones like the Jackal.
I like the idea of Crime Master being an ever evolving mantle, almost cult-like in the criminal underworld. You could be a guy down on his luck, poor as shit, and be given the chance to be the big shot calling the plays for scores. The Marvel universe is weird, and the regular thug often gets discounted. No one my remember your name, but when you're the Crime Master you become part of a legacy that immortalizes you.
Villains who are more so a legacy then an individual are always usually super cool if done well
Speaking of Chameleon, he had a really spooky tech mask you could find in Spider-Man 2. His apartment also has a lot of neat spy shit too in that basement.
You also kinda keep forgetting he's related to Kraven
I Wonder how he'll get butchered along with Rhino in the Kraven movie
I won't be watching it anyway
I forgot Chameleon had a weird Crazy Quilt style outfit
Any D list villains that could use a revamp?
I think White Rabbit should be reinvented as a hero (who fails and ends up seen as a villain)
>I think White Rabbit should be reinvented as a hero
What is this obsession with trying to make villains into heroes? Enough already
Ms Fortune
Like, Squid managed to stick around as a recurring d-lister, so why did his girlfriend at the time just vanish?
Do I have ideas what to do with her? No. But there's nothing wrong with more crowd filler low level villains showing up
They were both in a team called the Wicked Brigade, but I think the other 3 guys are dead now.
>When Squid is the most successful member of your team long term
Dark Beast
The Basilisk (morbius villain)
Stardust
Xanto Starblood
Black Swan
Emplate
I haven't recognized a single name here
Does he have any good stories? I hated his movie, but I can see the potential in the character.
Morbius is cool because he specifically ISN'T a vampire, or at least a conventional supernatural one (which is further funny considering supernatural vampires exist in Marvel canon). I struggle to think of good ASM stories with Michael outside of his first arc
There's his own various series.
still weird to me he was playable in Ultimate Alliance 3 before any actual popular Spider-man villains who aren't Venom. I still want a villain focused roster for a hypothetical 4 or spin-off
Mobie synergy
One of the worst thing in existences.
Kraven hunting T'Challa because he's racist is a pretty good bit.
>Have we ever established why Kraven fixates so much on Spidey specifically?
Spidey should call him on this. If his whole thing is going after the toughest prey, shouldn't he try to hunt Thor or some real heavy hitter?
>shouldn't he try to hunt Thor or some real heavy hitter?
Thor isn't natural, or thematic to what Kraven is after. Kraven wants to best anything that fits the predator vs prey theme, not fight a natural disaster.
That's kinda bullshit though. If his thing is he wants to prove he's the greatest hunter why limit it to guys who happen to have animal themes? He should be trying to take down Captain America or above. Seems like an excuse to be a little b***h.
well he's a game hunter first and a super villain second. He's psychologically focused on animals and nature over people, it's just animal themed people have an overlap to his life style
He was the one who got bored hunting real animals and started going after people to prove himself. Either you're committed to your goal or you aren't.
>who got bored hunting real animals
It wasn't really "getting bored", but moving on. Kraven has killed every predator on the planet to test himself, but it was mostly a one and done thing. Kraven has his own set of morals and beliefs when it comes to nature, and respects the game he hunts. Kraven hates poachers and rich dentists who call themselves hunters, because they cheapen the ritual of survival and all that.
Kraven is the last person i'd call uncommitted considering he literally drugged himself, fought hordes of Spiders naked and threw away his sanity just so he could finally defeat Spider-man. I'm sure if he left earth he would try to hunt every alien predator he could find since that's on a comparable level to what he considers a pure hunt and fight for survival, not just murdering or fighting someone.
Spencer's run had problems but Hunted was a great arc, having Kraven just gather every animal themed guy he knew in a massive game hunt was a great idea
I liked that Sergei's plan had multiple layers
>Kill off a bunch of wannabe "hunters" in this Arcade designed trap, who make a joke out of his profession
>Test, and possibly kill, all the animal themed bad guys who mock something Kraven sees as sacred
>Test his son to replace him
>Undo the previous wrong of bringing him back in the first place
Because you're thinking in power levels for some stupid reason and not what Kraven is all about.
>what Kraven is all about
I'm talking about Kraven's stated in-universe goal of being the world's greatest hunter. You're talking about what makes thematic sense from an external narrative POV. But in-universe, if you wanna be the greatest hunter, you have to go after the greatest prey. Someone should call him on his shit.
But Kraven's goal and motivations ARE driven by themes. Though I could see him gunning for Captain America under the right circumstances. Thor would only work if this was like a man vs god nihilist mentality or something. Kraven wouldn't see Thor as a predator, but as a force of nature, which he respects.
yeah it feels like an actually thought out and developed scheme, it's fittingly one of the last times after Last Hunt where it felt like someone writing him was using him as an actual character and trying to give him a genuine last hurrah over something that didn't need to be undone. Plus I do like how it spotlighted some of the other villains like Vulture, Gibbon and Taskmaster, shame it didn't have more issues to give perspective to other villains taking part, like Toad seemed to be loving the thing cause he's used to being hunted down by robots as a mutant
>Have we ever established why Kraven fixates so much on Spidey specifically?
I headcanon it as "the one that got away" mentality.
>Black Panther
In Black Panther: The Man Without Fear.
>Wolverine
He went after Old Man Logan.
tarantula was cool
Kraven the hunter is at his best when he doesn't have augmented strength, senses, etc. Something about someone just being a normal human who is able to go head to head with people who have super powers because of his skill and guile is so cool to me
>t. Garth Ennis
>t. Sony
You mean the same Sony that gave Kraven lion powers?
%3D%3D
according to the TASM 3 plans Kraven was going to be a normal human with a tech suit
Comic Kraven should clock in around Black Panther or Captain America. His potions give him enhanced strength, stamina, reflexes, and senses. Making him a science experiment is stupid, and misses the point of his natural/nature themes. He’s augmented, but not THAT crazy I don’t think
Ever think guys like Electro and Sandman are just dead, elemental ghosts?
No
I mean if you wanna get technical I guess yeah in Sandman’s case. He is just sand at the end of the day, with only one grain of sand that houses his consciousness
Mysterio had a cool Sci-Fi vibe.
Doc Ock is classic, as is Green Goblin.
I always thought Scorpion was going to be his Shadow, but it never came to pass.
Kraven the Hunter is just so damn cool.
Mysterio’s my favorite. Never had a bad design imo
what about ultimate mysterio?
Hold on I forgot what he looked like actually
The Spider-Man villains are quite awesome tbh.
I like to think that even the lame ones have some kind of merit. Usually conceptually
Maybe I'm a weirdo for caring too much about a throwaway line from a mini from years ago, but you know what?
I've always wanted to see the Shocker/Living Brain dynamic. I don't think we ever even got to see the two directly interacting. Why did Shocker like Brain so much?
Maybe he liked the idea of making machines with another machine? Shocker has at least some engineering knowledge if he made his gauntlets in prison. I bet he wanted to know how he works and to work with him (it?)
>Maybe he liked the idea of making machines with another machine?
No wait not like that!! Get your mind outta the gutter man
A good villain doesn't mean a world ender or something who's insane/pure evil. They're merely good opposition for the protagonist, or have likable quirks to fit a role. Take Herman for example
>Brilliant guy and thief, a career criminal with skills
>Has an awesome suit, gauntlets, and gear that makes him a walking earthquake
>Likability is just being a payday earning bad guy akin to The Rogues from Flash
Exactly that’s why I like Spider-Man and The Flash’s villains. For the most part they’re just guys wanting to make a dishonest buck. I was talking to friends about it and likening it to hating the guy who cut you off in traffic if that makes sense
Anon...the Flash's Rogues are just shitty trumped up and far less powerful and fun copies of spiderman's E-List rogues gallery and Marvel Newyorks supervillain population.
Just take the damn (You)
Kraven being a part of Wolverine's rogues would make sense.
On the topic of Living Brain, it is kinda weird (to me anyway) that he DIDNT become a "classic" Spidey villain.
I'm sure there are probably reasons why he didn't, but he debuted in the first dozen issues of Amazing Spider-Man, and every other villain from that were created in that period (Chameleon, Vulture, Lizard, Electro, Doc Ock, Green Goblin, even the Enforcers to a slightly lesser degree) went on to become quintessential Spidey villains, while Living Brain just kinda...did nothing
It was just a clunky robot that went nuts after somebody bumped it, it wasn't even apparent if its whole "can answer any question" (in the form of a punch card) ability was all it was cracked up to be.
Living Brain has been getting a lot of use lately in ASM
They should bring back the forgotten Spider-Man foe, Coldheart, and give her a new look. Paperdoll too, only now she simps for Spider-Man. Or maybe Peter himself?
Don’t wanna sound condescending but why would Paperdoll be obsessed with Peter?
Wasn't she obsessed with an actor originally?
Yeah some guy whose movies she would watch as a kid to late teen
I feel like Molten Man doesn’t appear as often as he should. He’s been cured for a while, why not have Liz Allan become Molten Maiden?
I think what the post was getting at is Paperdoll getting a new one sided romantic obsession, specifically Peter, would lend itself to more stories. Could also be a commentary on Parker’s long list of exes
Yeah I can see that with Paperdoll, I’m not shooting down the idea I am just saying I think she needs a good reason to become obsessed with Peter. It can literally just be “He was nice to me once” which fits for her
Would it be better if it was Peter or Spidey?
Another couple you could maybe get some mileage out of (if they weren't both dead) are Anthony and Leila Davis.
Anthony was the original Ringer, later the cyborg Strikeback
Leila was originally Hardshell and later Beetle II
A supervillain married couple sounds fun on paper. Probably not much demand though since Ringer was never a big name and we have a new female Beetle with Janice.
Absorbing man and Titania are the most, and this is canon, stable loving and close couples in marvel. And they are TECHNICALLY spiderman villains.
Mainly because Titania is deeply terrified of Spiderman and Absorbingman is pissed about having to comfort her all night when Spiderman shows up to thwart their plans or is just part of a group that shows up.
>And they are TECHNICALLY spiderman villains.
No, they're Hulk villains
Yeah, but they appear in Spidermans' wheel house more frequently and casually then in others.
And when was the last time absorbing man was an exclusive thor or hulk villain and she-hulk fought anything other then the urge to suck the dick of the first guy she sees.
>she-hulk fought anything other then the urge to suck the dick of the first guy she sees
She-Hulk has never once fought that urge
I am aware of Titania's fear of Spider-Man, but I don't think they're in his rogues gallery. Pretty sure they're Thor and She-Hulk villains respectively. They're only "spidey" villains in the same way you could call Dr Doom or Juggernaut "spidey" villains
>sudden green jelly music in the distance
Ironic that he'd get beaten if you play his own theme song to him loud enough, but kino nonetheless
I like the Rhino just because there's one panel where Spidey jumps on his back and hits him in the head fifty or sixty times and he just flinches, like his character is crazy powerful but just too goddamn dumb to do anything with it.
I think Sandman looks cooler when he’s 100% sand
Well he’s always sand. He just makes it look like he’s normal but I know what you mean I’m just pedantic like that
Spider-man Writers, Editors, and Executives are the villains' that hurt him the most