This movie broke Star Wars. Nobody can argue in good faith that it didn’t.
The low box office numbers for Solo are a direct result of this film. People got tricked into seeing this one opening weekend and took it out on Solo.
The insane reactionary plot of Rise of Skywalker was a desperate attempt to recover from this. We wouldn’t need “Somehow Palpatine returned” if they didn’t kill Snoke in this movie.
It turns out making a bad movie on purpose to “subvert expectations” is actually bad for the franchise. Turns out destroying all the plot threads set up in the first movie leaves the third movie with nowhere to go.
This movie is the reason Star Wars is a TV series now instead of a film franchise.
It broke film critics and Film Twitter because they're still simping for it
I can’t imagine defending this garbage. The reason the sequel trilogy feels so disjointed and rushed is because the movie that was supposed to be the centerpiece decided to throw everything in the trash.
>first movie lays the foundation
>LOL FRICK YOU
>third movie is left trying to course correct
>first movie lays the foundation
No it didn't, and that's exactly the problem. The sequels were doomed from the start because JJ Abrahms was throwing out all of these horseshit plot hooks without thinking what the answer could be.
The dipshit cites the OT for his inspiration in doing his "mystery box" horseshit (Darth Vader Father reveal and all that) but what the drooling moron doesn't seem to get is that this is the completely opposite of how it was done in OT. He's making up "mysteries" to be solved later and imagining the payoff being satisfying, instead of thinking of a reveal that would retroactively come across as a satisfying pay off.
The first movie had no foundation, it just had blanks that would have to be filled in later. The TLJ script was already kneecapped from needing to answer these dumbass questions nobody should have asked.
> He's making up "mysteries" to be solved later and imagining the payoff being satisfying, instead of thinking of a reveal that would retroactively come across as a satisfying pay off.
I dont really get what the difference would be - how can you think of a revelation in one order or the other? Like, if did George just think “I am your father” would be satisfying and write the preceding plot around it, whereas Abrams winged it while writing the plot and then imagined how he could end the plot with a big reveal, or was it the other way around? It doesn’t seem like the outcomes would be hugely different unless you leave a plot hole.
I think they are in thevstage of kemory holing it. Nobody even tries to defend it now
Star wars 8 is literally the best paced of all the movies
the A plot of Ray and Luke
the B plot of Ocar Isaacs finding Sacha Baron Cohen
the C plot of Finn Ryder and the Fat Asian woman are all magnificently woven together
>the A plot of Ray and Luke
The only reason I defend this movie is because the A plot is serviceable albeit in need of some tweaks. Luke’s standoff against the FO is certified kino.
I agree with you... but it would have been even BETTER if Luke was a force ghost the whole movie
It’s a shit movie but I don’t understand the subverting expectations meme. What did people actually think was going to happen? After how that hot trash TFA set things up, the only thing TLJ could do was validate what we already knew those lootboxes held.
TFA was a straight up reboot. They could have gone anywhere with it. I was fully invested and ready to see where the new characters would go. Instead I got
>movie opens with “yo mama” joke
>main character is nobody
>main villain dies lmao
>Yoda says “frick the Jedi texts”
>Luke throws lightsaber over shoulder
>main plot device of the first movie gone lmao
>riding horses through a casino planet
>BB-8 shooting coins at storm troopers
>frick everything let the past die bro
>TFA was a straight up reboot.
Which confirmed the sequels would all be derivative shit. There was no coming back from "hurr the Republic won in RotJ, but uh like they totally didn't since we need to make a carbon copy of the original movie." It was a complete failure from the beginning.
People were just blinded by their Lucas hate, as if 99% of Hollywood isn't far worse than him.
>It stuck the landing though.
That's what kept the franchise alive for another 32 years, but otherwise it was the beginning of the end for Star Wars as a narrative. Lucas sacrificed the plot and characters in order to end the trilogy (originally planned as an ongoing series) as quickly as possible and squeeze as many toy license bucks out of the series as possible. He was personally stressed out by producing Empire Strikes Back, so he took his ball and went home, only returning in the 90s because he wasn't making money or getting attention anymore.
>hurr the Republic won in RotJ, but uh like they totally didn't since we need to make a carbon copy of the original movie.
A competent director could have expanded on the political landscape in the second movie. Maybe there was a provisional government in place, but they weren’t officially recognized or maybe there was a power struggle within the empire after the empreror’s death and it was just on momentum, or maybe the rebels spent the last few years hunting down imperial loyalists like the nazi hunters after WWII, or literally anything except what we got.
The Force Awakens was kinda stupid, but it wasn’t insulting.
>A competent director could have expanded on the political landscape in the second movie.
I doubt it. I really don't think you can come back from "yeah we totally won, now here's the Empire vs Rebels dynamic again". It was over before it started.
They "could" have had a fractured galaxy where different regions are fighting with the remnants of the empire. That would at least make sense narratively, but no they specifically decided to have a New Republic that was so moronic it couldn't be bothered to defend itself, just so they could replace the "Rebellion" with the "Resistance".
They could have introduced an ultra-loyalist who refuses to accept that the Empire lost, doesn’t recognize the legitimacy of the new republic, and wants to become the new head of the empire after Palpatine’s death. They could have a plot where fragments of the empire still control certain territories, or certain people on distant planets aren’t even aware of the empire’s defeat. They could have woven Snoke into this with the idea that the empire isn’t just a political entity, but there’s an evil/spiritual force behind it, a role that Palpatine filled. I’m not even a professional film writer, I’m just making shit up and it’s more interesting than “lol yo mama, snoke dies, luke throws the lightsaber over his shoulder, frick you”
Nice ideas, but they won't undo the moronation of the New Republic or the repetition of the Rebellion/Empire dynamic they forced into TFA.
It's true Rian Johnson made all the worst decisions possible, but no one could save the sequels when they were already built on a foundation of sand.
I guess what I’m getting at is even with the first movie being kinda stupid, there are things they could have done in the second movie to soften the impact or subtly retcon parts of it to make more sense or expand the universe to make that movie look smaller instead of completely crashing the franchise on purpose.
The galaxy is huge. Maybe the whole “rebellion/empire” thing is still happening on one front, but not in other parts of the galaxy.
I can accept that it conceptually possible for a sequel to TFA to lessen TFA's moronation, but you have to admit it's very unlikely that even a talented writer/director could pull it off much less Rian Johnson.
Yeah it’s goofy as hell. Star Wars has always had weird shit like that and I’ve forgiven it. Obi-Wan’s “from a certain point of view” thing in Return Of The Jedi is moronic, but I can forgive it because that movie was felt like it was trying. The Last Jedi didn’t even try. I felt like I got trolled.
The certain point of view thing probably had more to do with the OT being written as three movies but only receiving financing for one. When ANH did well, they financed the other two films. This is why Leah kisses Luke in the first film - she was intended to be his sister in the original script, and then the character wouldn’t have made sense as a Platonic friend, so they made her a love interest. Why George felt it necessary to turn her back into his sister is beyond me.
Although, the line is reprised in ROTJ, so maybe this was just a hamfisted boomerism on Lucas’ part.
This is basically what the original Expanded Universe was.
They had the keys to glory, and they decided that hating Star Wars fans was more important.
Its kind of fitting when you see what happened with the audience. 4 years of Trump changed nothing, the world just got gayer, but these morons have still convinced themselves they’re part of the resistance despite holding every major non-israeli lever of power in America and most of the developed world.
do you have any idea how moronic you sound /misc/?
It was a low effort post but I’m right about everything in it, while you are a redditor, not from here, and GAY.
TFA was a commercial for the episode 8, nothing more. Episode 8 turned out to be awful beyond measure, instead of reheated Star Wars flavored substitute, like episdode 7.
I think it's because it destroys plot hooks from the previous movies.
Anything you'd think metters
>Fin
>Snoke
>place of Luke's exile
>Knights of Ren
>Furst Order's crushing defeat
Is either ignored or specifically destroyed
You need to stop making these pathetic threads crying about MUH LUKE you obsessive autist homosexual.
>The low box office numbers for Solo are a direct result of this film.
No they aren't. They're the result of Iger forcing them to release in May only six months after the last one instead of the nice Christmas release niche they'd carved out. It also released at the same time as Infinity War and Deadpool 2. If it had released in December it would've sold fine. The average audience member doesn't have the attention span to be mad at a movie for a full year.
Star Wars always came out in May.
The first six episodes were all released in May.
I know people who never saw another Star Wars movie after this one. Everybody went to see this on opening weekend, leading to good box office numbers for this movie. After watching it, people said “I’m done” leading to bad box office numbers for whatever the next movie was. The movie after this was destined to fail.
RotJ broke Star Wars by being halfway shit, it was the first movie where Lucas had full control and no influence from anyone else to lessen his autism.
It stuck the landing though. Luke vs Vader and the emperor on the Death Star is peak Star Wars.
I stopped watching Star Wars forever after The Last Jedi. Rian Johnson’s goal was to turn Star Wars into disconnected stories within the Star Wars universe, which is why TLJ uses the same color scheme and some of the same themes (child slaves) as Indiana Jones And The Temple Of Doom because that movie achieved the goal of making Indiana Jones movies as bing various random adventures. And immediately after TLJ that’s the direction Star Wars took. And it’s repeated in TLJ to “let the past die”. Then the next movie tried to turn it back into a sequential story but it didn’t work.
Archaeology motifs were always present from the Return of the Jedi into the EU. Identical motifs to the ones you’re describing can be found in:
>Jedi Knight: Jedi Academy
>The Clone Wars (Xbox / PS2 game)
>Clone Wars had a similar scene as you’re showing here with JarJar
>KOTOR had archaeological digs on Korriban that looked like they were lifted directly from Indiana Jones
Whereas post-TLJ, the only thing I can think of is
>The Bad Batch had constant allusions to artifacts and tomb-raiding
But I don’t really watch any of the new stuff.
I do see your point though, that does seem like the direction they’re taking. They want to expand it beyond just one story into a whole ensemble with different stories, styles, and intended audiences. I would actually enjoy that approach if it weren’t all so insufferably woke and gay.
As an aside, I always felt like Mandalorian, The Bad Batch, and what few episodes of Tales of the Jedi I saw all felt like watching an RPG as a television show. Each episode follows the progress of a typical RPG (move from safety of a town through the wilderness to a dungeon and back to town to sell the loot).
Your comparison with Indiana Jones is not correct. Indy 3 was among the very best (after Raiders and Temple). SW was an entire universe, which Disney absolutely didn't understand.
It’s a shame since Solo is actually a pretty decent side story, it’s not the definitive backstory for Han in any way but it atleast feels fun which can’t be said about the prequels
TLJ's biggest failure was losing the merchandising market. George was a goofy man and his prequels weren't that great but damn son, did he know how to sell toys.
Meanwhile Disney had 0 original designs, Rey wore the same shit every scene and those fricking Porgs were Poochie levels of idiotic merchandising wise.
I'm honestly in awe how big of money loss that movie was. This shit will be studied a hunded years from now.
Didn’t they meme that weird spinny lightsaber, the Kylo Ren mask, and soccerball R2? The thing I hated the most about the movies was how hard they were trying to rehash old designs to be marketed as new toys.
>worse vader mask
>worse R2
>crusader light saber
Extreme creative bankruptcy since the very start.
Star Wars was always like that. It’s almost shot for shot lifted out of other films and series.
This will be used as a cautionary tale for women leadership. The generless, raceless ai beings will study Disney era SW, and laugh and laugh that humans used to have to deal with women, let alone trust them to run something important.
AI is the race and gender of a white man, they castrate it so it doesn’t talk like us.
Disney wanted to expand to the girls market. Which didn't work, but thry successfuly destroyed their boy market along the way
Yes, and it has made me respect Rian Johnson immeasurably more.
Dude single-handedly fricked the Disney corporation out of billions of dollars for basically the lulz.
I knew people who walked out. I finished the movie, but sometime during the casino scene I thought “I don’t really like Star Wars anymore” and I have seen anything SW related since.
TLJ is shit and definitely did the most damage but really all the ST is shit for different reasons. The safest bet imaginable was just doing a Jedi academy storyline ala harry potter with the old cast serving as mentor figures but instead they just did a soft reset and made the OT (and by extension the PT) completely pointless.
The ST is like an out of touch executive getting 3 different guys to make him an amusement park.
The first guy just makes mediocre pastiche of six flags with a foundation made out of toothpicks and glue, the second guy burns it all to the ground out of spite and incompetence, and then the third guy bails, leaving the first guy to desperately repair the merry-go-round while the ruins of the park are being bulldozed.
They needed one single visionary-type to direct the entire trilogy, or at the very least, WRITE A FRICKING OUTLINE OF THE PLOT AND GET THE DIRECTORS TO COMMUNICATE WITH EACH OTHER but Disney figured that they didn't need to put in any effort because Star Wars automatically prints money, or used to print money.
TFA and ROS are worse than TLJ.
this is the best star wars movie and nobody wanted a han solo movie with a manlet as han solo
It's a good thing. I feel nothing but contempt for Star Wars fans. The positive reaction to TFA was enough for me to stop caring about any of their opinions.
People b***hed and moaned about TFA like they always do
On Cinemaphile, yes. But overall the reaction was largely positive.
It's an entertaining movie
The cultural gaslighting was huge at this time. Covid mindwashing really showed how mailable viewers are.
Subverting expectations doesn't have to be bad. They should have had the First Order kill all the heroes and win in the second movie and have the third movie be set 1000 years in the future distancing themselves from the Skywalkers.
In itself it was a good movie. But as centerpiece of a trilogy it fails. It doesn't really develop what is set up or left vague in the previous movie. And doesn't offer much to have an epic conclusion in the final one.
It couldn't have developed anything, because JJ mandated that his precious mistery boxes had to be revealed in Episode IX
The Last Jedi was garbage but I have to say watching it destroy the stupid re-hash plot threads established in the first film (Luke Skywalker 2.0! Darth Vader 2.0! The emperor 2.0!) was far more enjoyable than anything else about the new trilogy. All three movies were bad, but only TLJ shared my hatred of the utterly boring, creatively bankrupt, microwaved rehash that was TFA and--while obviously it would have been better if TLJ were actually *good*--I at least appreciated that it took the time to burn down all the stupid shit that TFA established and put the ball back in J.J. Abrams' court for the third film. Predictably, what Abrams decided to do was just un-un-do everything from TLJ (Just kidding, she really is a Skywalker! I know he wrecked his Darth Vader helmet, he's gonna glue it together and put it back on! I know the "new" emperor died, but the old one mysteriously came back!).
None of the new Star Wars films are good but TLJ was at least enjoyable as a visceral series of gut-punches to TFA, which is the most boring rehash that's ever been made.
Funnily enough this sounds a lot like what happened with the OT in terms of discrepancies and soft-retcons.
Makes sense when it's a giant "frick you" to Jar Jar Abrams. If only Disney had the foresight to hire one director for three films so they could actually follow up on the "mystery boxes" aka plot threads.
The reason was TFA, TLJ just made everyone mad for TFA as well without realising it
>let the past die
>but still buy our crap because of nostalgia!
Weird take
It's the best of the new trilogy. I liked the idea of light and dark side being both part of the force with Jedi and Sith misinterpreting it. I don't give a shit about Lucas' vision that changed like ten times already.