The theatrical cut of Star Wars (before it was subtitled A New Hope) is the only Star Wars material that is canon. Everything that came after and spun out from this film, including Empire Strikes Back and Return of the Jedi, is fanfiction. The film tells a complete story and did not need sequels or prequels.
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It's also the best action adventure movie of all time.
It's definitely up there.
it is surprisingly well crafted sci-fi fantasy
That's a surprisingly horrible screenshot
Let me guess, you think Greedo shot first?
I sense something, a presence I've not felt since...
No.
Thats Conan the Barbarian or Temple of Doom
I thought Temple of Doom was the best movie of all time when I saw it during its first run. In my defense, I was incredibly high.
Its really good adventure fun.
Lotta dynamism and atmosphere.
yeah, but after the fact I though it had too many unnecessary "gross out" gags
The Empire Strikes Back and The Return of the Jedi are great except for one thing... They frick up Obi-Wan's character. "from a certain point of view" is bullshit. The Obi-Wan that Empire and Return turn him into is a weird liar who sent a young kid into combat where he could easily have died without having told him the truth about his father. Which is fine in and of itself, but it clashes with the movies' mythical fantasy tone where the good guys are supposed to actually be pure. In the context of that mythical fantasy tone, the "from a certain point of view" Obi-Wan seems like a weird incursion of some NYC psychologist into what is otherwise a movie that has a tone of ancient fantasy and chivalry.
It's so obvious that each film tries to awkwardly retcon the last. If Leia was the other hope Yoda mentions in ESB, why the frick didn't they want Luke to go rescue her? The first movie is the only canon for me. Sorry George.
To be fair, it might have been because they thought that Luke had a better chance of being super-Jedi savior than Leia did and so they didn't want to risk the better chance for the sake of the lesser chance. But again, this would clash with the whole tone of mythical fantasy and heroic purity. Like, are Obi-Wan and Yoda spiritual masters or cunning pragmatists? Or both? The movies try to play it both ways for sure but it's not always convincing.
So what is “canon?”
Nothing, it's all fan fiction.
LUCASES fan fiction. Anything that came out of Lucases mouth or pen is canon. Nothing else is canon
So Ahsoka is canon?
actually no, because he was really against the idea of her the entire time and never wanted her in the story. Then when they went against that and added her he was constantly trying to suggest they kill her off
It's spelled "Cannon", dweeb
>If Leia was the other hope Yoda mentions in ESB, why the frick didn't they want Luke to go rescue her?
Because he had Luke right there and wanted to finish his training, which by Yoda's logic meant they didn't need Leia
In TESB Luke’s sister would’ve been named Neilith and introduced in movie 6, and there would’ve also been plot points like the rebels attacking Palpatines palace on Coruscant (then called Had Abbadon) instead of the second Death Star and Ewoks. However Lucas’s spirit got crushed when Marcia cheated on him with the windowwasher, so he haphazardly phoned in the movie with the simpler Endor/Death Star II setting and Leia retconned to be Luke’s sister.
Imagine a timeline where Marcia never checked George and his spirit wasn’t destroyed. We would’ve gotten a less rushed ROTJ, and the sequel trilogy may even have begun in 1986 and revolutionized special effects before Terminator 2.
*never cucked George
Obi Wan would rather confirm to Luke that his dad was a good man and add on top of that a hero then tell him that he was evil and his destiny might be evil as well.
Obi-Wan is also training Luke in martial arts while Luke is getting ready to go into combat against a gigantic military force. To not tell Luke the truth given that Luke would logically seem to have a very small chance of actually surviving this extremely dangerous mission he's going on.... seems fricked up t me.
It is but Obi Wan does have an argument on his side. Luke would go into combat not hindered by the anguish of who his dad is and who he is and would die at peace. What he didn't know was that Luke was mature and strong enough to handle the truth.
I disagree and argue Obi-Wan was always a self-serving dishonest and manipulative person.
From a certain point of view it becomes clear that Obi-Wan himself ambushed the Jawas (or used Jedi mind tricks to convince Luke the empire did it)
Because there is NO reason for stormtroopers to try and disguise their attack on the Jawa caravan (remember Gaffee sticks and Bantha Tracks Luke finds) Obi-Wan somehow convinces him the Empire must be responsible but they OWN the fricking planet and have literally no reason to fear the fricking Jawa's opinion of them for destroying a droid caravan (especially since the Emperor dissolves the senate in the previous scene they clearly dont give a flying frick about public opinion anymore)
Next I think ObiWan kills Luke's aunt and uncle to push him into joining his damned fool idealistic crusade
Finally ObiWan lies and uses Jedi Mind tricks to get Han Solo to take them to Alderaan for 2K instead of the 10K he originally asked for (and as a matter of fact there's no direct evidence Han ever got paid the original 2K either, let alone the 15K he was obviously shorted when they failed to reach Alderaan)
Obi wan was behind it all the entire time. Star wars Episode X, somehow Kenobi returned.
Retcons or no, this is the most apt evaluation of the Obiwan character. He's a scoundrel, a deeply flawed person and a case study in why the Jedi needed to be Order 66ed.
>the 15K he was obviously shorted
was paid before leaving Yavin. It was onscreen ffs.
>5 crates of presumably $$$
That's the 15K for the passage to Alderaan? Or the "reward" Han demands for his kidnapping of the princess?
Han needed that money to pay Jabba. ANH paints him as a selfish person but even in that movie we see him being hassled by Greedo over the money owed and his lousiness as a smuggler. I'm not sure what happens between ANH and Empire that Han couldn't have made a quick trip to Tattooine (maybe with some rebels as backup) to drop the money and frick off, but he never does and that leads to his situation in Empire and the beginning of Jedi.
But the short answer is Han def got paid, maybe even the full amount needed to wipe Jabba's debt and move on with his life. Made 0 sense he was still a target post-ANH.
Not to mention, he was on pretty good terms with Leia at the end ANH. There is no reason she wouldnt have helped him settle his debts at that point, with or without the "reward" he was originally going to get.
>Made 0 sense he was still a target
He never got around to paying Jabba.
Greedo’s ghost was busy smelling Han’s body, so Han needed an exterminator
Yeah but why? Doesn't 5ish years pass between ANH and Empire? Isn't Tattooine out of the Empire's jurisdiction? Is there 0 way to make a phone call in the SW universe where Han couldn't have at minimum planned a dead drop for Jabba?
Whole thing seems a plot of convenience .
It's not 5 years, it's like 1 or less.
It's three years, you're both wrong.
this is next level cope. lucas was a hack who made everything up on the spot and tried to claim it was one grand story from day 1.
What really makes no sense is that Obiwan left Anakin to die in agony being burned alive by lava and cut in half next to a volcano. He didn't save him nor did he give him a merciful death, he just walked away like a b***h. Then they just give up like cowards and go into hiding for 20 years even though there are Jedi everywhere, large rebel forces all over and Obiwan has defeated Vader three times in a row and Yoda almost defeated the Emperor in ROTS. Also, Padme dying for no reason also makes no sense
Obiwan knew that he had to go into hiding to allow for the series of events that would lead to Rey bringing balance to the force.
That's because the plot twist was always dumb. They should've stuck to Leigh Brackett's script and kept Vader as unrelated to Luke. Luke meets his dad later in Jedi ghost form when he, Obi Wan and Yoda christen him as a Jedi. Leia is also not Luke's sister. It's setup for him to find her in the 3rd movie.
disagree
Luke deciding to forgive his father's killer and refusing to give into hate would've been pretty powerful if they went that route.
The idea is Obi-Wan didn't think Luke was strong enough to take the idea that his father was the evilest man in the galaxy
It's supposed to be an act of kindness by Obi-Wan; not burdening Luke with the knowledge that his father was alive and one of the major Space Nazis. It's also respecting Uncle Owen's decision not to tell him.
I would be OK with this. Let's do the same for the Alien and Predator "franchises" too.
The Matrix is an obvious one
I've always felt that way. First movie I remember seeing in the mid 90s
Will we ever get an original theatrical cut?
Silver DVD boxset.
Arent their Laser-Disc versions of the original cut...along with some early 90s VHS boxsets?
there are also 2 reconstructed original cuts, harmy's despecialized edition and project4k77
where is a de-Jar-Jarred PM?
There's D+77 as well
also yes
this thread is interesting, i've been thinking about how star wars alone is really enough. i am at the tail end of my "trimming" of excess media i don't need - but it's not final. might end up losing empire+rotj before the end.
Put Ghostbusters fren
i have no personal attachment to it and hate israelites
>Has Labyrinth
>Stars Jennifer Connelly, a israelite
Wow fren, you must hate the theme song so badly Looooo. I ain’t fraid of you anon! Even if you’re 6’8 and wear a black pants jacket B)
i have a personal attachment to it, still hate israelites.
Well i have a personal attachment to you, fren. But i don’t like you in a relationship way; brother way
i'll keep you around, cowboy
lightsabers were just this ancient antiquidated weapon in this movie literally "from a more civilized time" meaning like with knights and shit fighting with swords. It was only ever meant as a training device for luke to use the force, which he applied to the modern era by manifesting it inside his x-wing. Then it totally jumped the shark
Absolutely correct
The only time Luke even uses the stupid thing is playing with the droid while R2 lets the wookie win
Lightsabers were the coolest thing in the movie, though.
Were you not there in 1977?
Yes.
Nah Empire and Return of the Jedi are good the Prequels and Sequels should be not canon
>only Star Wars material that is canon.
Nothing is canon, and everything is canon. Because it is just a silly movie, not anything seirous. The first star wars movie is a solid 7/10 1970s Sci-Fi flick. They hsould have left it there
>Sci-Fi flick
A great film. Gets a bad rap due to spawning one of the worst fanbases in history.
Return of the Jedi is unironically the best Star Wars movie. The final scene with luke, vader, and the emporer is the most kino star wars is ever going to get. The ewoks are also a good commentary on the vietnam (and iraq) wars.
>commentary
gtfo
you can say all you want but if you do your research you’ll know rotj was the deepest and most intellectual star wars is going to get period. theres a reason george lucas approached david lynch and cronenberg several times begging them to direct the film.
I like the part where Luke chokes the Gamorrean Guard and uses a green lightsaber.
one of the best authentic entrances to a main character that didnt feel forced imo
A parallel about natives fighting an oppressive empire is not that deep. The throne room stuff has some interesting stuff going on though like the Emperor not caring if Luke kills him because then Luke falls to the dark side and the dark side lives on.
Lando calrissian and his alien buddy in the millenium falcon with the fleet of all the varying races and species showed that if racism didnt exist we would get a lot more shit done. Imagine if the mon calamari were not allowed to fight alongside the rebels due to their differences. The galaxy would be FRICKED
shhhh we’re not supposed to think racism is bad
Cringe plebbitors
Seethe newbie
It's not my favorite film but I respect your opinion extremely. The throne room scenes with Luke/Vader/Emperor are the absolute pinnacle and embodiment of Star Wars and they always will be. It encompasses everything Star Wars is meant to be. I legitimately pity people who don't see this or prefer gay shit like the prequel duels.
It's not the best but I don't get the hate since it still has great scenes like the throne room and saving Han
However, it's definitely let down by "le death star 2.0" and while I like the idea of a native population helping to destroy the shield generator/ overthrow the empire a lot of the Ewok shit is just annoying like them going back to their settlement and want to cook Han
>Was Vader righting his tie-fighter after getting yeeted by the Falcon then flying away into the stars in the original theatrical cut?
If so, then given his prominent position on the original poster, it was always meant to set up at least one sequel.
of course nobody working on the film actually thought there'd be a sequel because it was going to bomb so hard (maybe in the last days in the editors booth with the Williams score there might have been an inkling)
george lucas should really be commended for this. no one gave a shit about star wars before release but his creative vision aligned with pop culture. he didn’t give a shit about the money but happened to make a fortune. the sequels and prequels were always planned on being released with disregard for any public attention
>of course nobody working on the film actually thought there'd be a sequel because it was going to bomb so hard
Was Star Wars basically The Room but successful?
>in the original theatrical cut
Of course.
>Was Vader righting his tie-fighter after getting yeeted by the Falcon then flying away into the stars in the original theatrical cut?
I don't even think the specialised versions have him righting the tie fighter? It just shows him hurtling through space.
I agree. It was perfect on its own.
WE ARE THE
E-E-E-E-E-E
EWOKS
WE’RE THE SPIRITS OF THE FOREST MOON
>Vader left alive after having killed Ben
>Luke having just taken his first steps into becoming a Jedi at the climax of the movie
>Doesn't even use his lightsaber outside of training on the Falcon
ANH is my favorite film, but it's very disingenuous to proclaim that it tells ac omplete story that didn't need a sequel. Also the prequels aren't canon. Nothing outside of the OT is.
Sneed
I count Star Wars (1977) and all related material up to, but not including, The Empire Strikes Back. The newspaper comics were based, the holiday special was based, Splinter Of The Mind's Eye was based, and in my head cannon, Luke and Leia weren't siblings, Darth was just the guy's name and it wasn't his dad, and Luke and Leia fricked a lot while zipping around the galaxy doing cool shit
>But then why could Luke swim in SotME and not Leia???
He's a force sensitive twerp but he has powers sometimes. Leia's just some princess, she never learned how to swim
Pic unrelated
Based.
I kinda agree and disagree. When Lucas had Vader be Luke’s father it was a brilliant retcon, but then he kept trying to replicate it which shrank the universe and made it feel lamer. Now Leia is Luke’s sister, Vader built C-3PO, Luke’s mom owned R2, Boba is related to the stormtroopers, Vader is part of the prophecy to bring balance to the Force, etc
Vader building C-3PO..."almost" works. 3PO is kinda fricked up as a robot, he doesnt behave like ANY other robot. This could explained by him being pieced together, and built by an literal child. The problem is that they had to 3PO in everything for some reason. If was just in the OT and Phantom it would have been fine.
I saw all three during their original runs. Star Wars (IV) was mind blowing at the time; Empire is my favorite now, in retrospect; ROTJ was okay, with my favorite victory celebration (Yub Nub unironically included) though I still wanted to see a Spielberg version.