The US Government is suing Adobe

What does this mean for animation? Nearly everyone in California uses Adobe products after all
https://www.theverge.com/2024/6/17/24180196/adobe-us-ftc-doj-sues-subscriptions-cancel

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  1. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    I thought they used Toon Boom

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Canadians use Toon Boom, burgers use Flash.

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        What?
        I’m American and I was taught animation using Toonboom. EVERYONE in the animation industry uses Toonboom. The only exception to this rule is independent artists who can’t afford it, and they either use the old Flash versions or (as is the case with AimKid) use TVPaint. Why? Because Adobe sucks and Animated CC is pure fricking garbage, like not even worth the fricking expense

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          You must be lucky, because I got taught shit Adobe products while I was in Graphic Design class.

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Adobe products are used for everything but animation. In fact, I think the only major production using Flash is Smiling Friends.

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >Adobe products are used for everything but animation
            Titmouse and Nick still use Flash primarily. It's called Animate now because Adobe hacked off the ActionScript portions of the program which made it useful for interactive websites (but a security nightmare)

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Ankama's still on flash

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Art schools have been teaching Toon Boom with only cursory Adobe lessons. Partly because the industry has made the shift, another part because TB’s been offering cheaper licensing agreements to businesses and institutions.
      >t.attending SCAD

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        It's also significantly easier to learn Toon Boom, since it's got more tutorials tailored to cutout animation than Flash. (The ones I DID find for Flash were severely outdated.)

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          The user face is also a lot easier to get the hang of. Like Toonboom is so damn user friendly and it’s actually really good for organizing. Not only do you have multiple layers but also different art layers, one for line art, another for paint, etc. Also, the pencil is my wife. IT IS MY LIFE

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Can confirm
        >t. MCAD alumni

        It's also significantly easier to learn Toon Boom, since it's got more tutorials tailored to cutout animation than Flash. (The ones I DID find for Flash were severely outdated.)

        The user face is also a lot easier to get the hang of. Like Toonboom is so damn user friendly and it’s actually really good for organizing. Not only do you have multiple layers but also different art layers, one for line art, another for paint, etc. Also, the pencil is my wife. IT IS MY LIFE

        Love seeing other Toon Boom bros. I even bought the perpetual license. If the software was a woman, I would have married her by now.

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Adobe should've added nodes years ago, but it's clear that Toon Boom's the perfect woman.

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Toon Boom's UI confused me

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            It confuses me too, but eventually nodes will start to make sense once you get into rigging.

            • 4 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              Promise?

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                I promise, there's no shortage of rigging tutorials out there.

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >Art schools teaching relevant software
        nice joke

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Depends on the school, some are just lucky.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Background art, character designs, prop designs, and layout are all done in .PSD files which require Adobe Photoshop

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Not really, you can open PSDs in Paint Tool Sai just fine.

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >Paint Tool Sai
          Who in the industry is using Paint Tool Sai? Also animation editing and compositing is also done with Adobe

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Steve Lambe abuses Paint Tool Sai, though he sometimes uses Photoshop for more complex stuff.

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          On CSP and FireAplaca too, and FA is free

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            I've tried FA, and I don't get nearly as much control with my linework as I do in SAI. Having a pen layer is a game changer.

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >and layout are all done in .PSD files which require Adobe Photoshop
        people save in .PSD because it's an universal file type, every modern art program is compatible with it

  2. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    It will have no impact because all animation is outsourced to Asia.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      And asians use Toon Boom too, so Flash is on its way to becoming deader than it already was.

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Japan doesn't.

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Well yeah, they're an outlier because Clip Studio Paint's the standard over there.

  3. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    The only Adobe software I ever used professionally was Illustrator.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Illustrator's a fine option, especially if you want to make clean lineart. I've gotten tons of mileage just out of the curvature tool alone.

  4. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Does this mean no more Canadian slop cartoons?

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      The only Canadian studio that still uses Flash is Elliot. (As far as I'm aware.)

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Flash was replaced by Animate and Character years ago.

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Animate still shares the same unopitimized codebase with Flash, even down to laggy previews.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      No it means they'll be forced to offer copies of CS5 for free

  5. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    not much, settlement most likely, agreement to update and improve working practices to bring them into line with US law which the lawsuit claims they're not meeting

    there will likely be secondary suits after that, class action maybe, and a settlement based on how many subscriptions the customer had and for how long over the period that's at issue in this case

    it's unlikely to change much except who runs the sales and marketing departments at Adobe

  6. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    won't it be cheaper to just legalize torrenting?

  7. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    I thought companies only use expensive programs because of it being a tax deductible.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Adobe used to be cheap for schools, but they lack transparency when it comes to their subscription model.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      No, they use them because they're locked in as much as because they're deductible.

      Why would anyone use Adobe products when there are like 5 great alternatives for each program. Plus they are free or like only one time fee of $20 like Procreate is.

      Institutional malaise. They fleece schools and businesses because they're the originals (in the eyes of the public), but that IBM shtick isn't working anymore.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      it helps out workflow if everyone uses exactly the same thing

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Not anymore. I use Clip Studio for illustration and deliver psds. I'm sure the other alternatives have psd options too.
        It must be more complicated with illustrator and after effects. Indesign has the hdmi format that works elswere (I could learn affinity publisher, but its easier to block the adobe cloud and use a pirated version instead, frick Adobe)

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          I personally cannot stand the layouts of AE and Premiere, VEGAS' layout makes far more sense to me.

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            I havn't opened AE in ages. I'll take a look at Vegas, Thanks anon. As long as it has layers and that invisible node, it should work the same to do some motions graphics.

            • 4 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              You'll need this script, since VEGAS doesn't let you make your own custom keyframes out-of-the-box.
              https://github.com/RatinFX/VegasProFlow

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Most people tend to use VEGAS for YTPMVs and Sparta Remixes, but it'll do the job just fine.

  8. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Adobe became irredeemable when they switched to a subscription model for Creative Cloud so I hope the DOJ rapes them

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Russian cracks FTW.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Good. Everyone who works at Adobe is a fricking snake. I don't know how their shit became the "industry standard" when there's such problems as:
      >programs all have completely different rules, layouts, and features despite being touted as a "creative suite"
      >incompatibility between programs where you cannot simply expect them to work together with each other
      >absolutely insane memory usage
      >an absolute avalanche of bugs and random things that make the programs crash
      >updates that arbitrarily change things like tool functionality and shortcuts
      >updates that make programs objectively worse
      The list goes on and on, there's no reason a subscription service that costs this much monthly and is used by everyone in the art industry should ever have this many problems. Frick every person in charge at Adobe, genuinely.

      basically a tldr of what I said, agreed

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Good. Everyone who works at Adobe is a fricking snake. I don't know how their shit became the "industry standard" when there's such problems as:
      >programs all have completely different rules, layouts, and features despite being touted as a "creative suite"
      >incompatibility between programs where you cannot simply expect them to work together with each other
      >absolutely insane memory usage
      >an absolute avalanche of bugs and random things that make the programs crash
      >updates that arbitrarily change things like tool functionality and shortcuts
      >updates that make programs objectively worse
      The list goes on and on, there's no reason a subscription service that costs this much monthly and is used by everyone in the art industry should ever have this many problems. Frick every person in charge at Adobe, genuinely.

      basically a tldr of what I said, agreed

      As a near perpetual college student, I hate how they have a de facto monopoly on pdf and lock shit like rotating the file behind a paywall.

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Autodesk the same, previously CAD and 3ds weren't that expensive and people pirated only in a special case due to their moronic licensing, but the moment they went full yearly renew sub and created the devil that was LMGtools, people moved to other shit.
        If Adobe's lawsuit ends in DoJ victory, Autodesk is next.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >so I hope the DOJ rapes them
      The current GOP controlled Federal Court system is Lochner Era levels of rigged towards the companies. They'll lose, in humiliating fashion.

  9. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    It's what they get for killing off Flash. Good ridden.
    Now my question is, why wasn't Unity also targeted like this when they did the exact same thing?

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Unity at least TOLD people about their new fee system, Adobe is mainly coming under fire because of the frickloads of hidden fees and misdirects to make users never realize how much they're going to owe for the service.

  10. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Wrong board
    use freedom-respecting software

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      I've always been using GIMP when people have been telling me to use Photoshop, I don't see a point in using the latter.

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >b-but muh circles!
        also gtk2 but I don't think that many people care about outdated shitware

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        I use to be proficient with photoshop but now I have gimp. It kind of sucks to be honest I struggle with the layouts and default settings. But if I found my old elements software and tried to upload it ala old school DVD I think Adobe would snipe my computer

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        I still use photoshop because of the DDS plugins, since GIMP will never support Bc7 support and if they implement is on a Snail pace.

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          I've never tried any DDS plugins before, are they worth it?

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            GIMP DDS support is plain basic
            Photoshop supports Intel's bc7 and the plugin is quite good and simple.
            People are begging for BC7 support for years, and GIMP hasn't moved their ass to support either.

            • 4 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              So I take it Photoshop has a monopoly on BC7 and DDS?

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                In parts yes, because even shademap supports DDS all the way to DXT5 compression.
                Even Irfanview doesn't support BC7, you need to open on photoshop to quick view.
                Intel's plugoin is limited only to Photoshop
                The old Nvidia DDS plugin doesn't work on modern versions anymore

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                I've got a Ryzen, so I don't know if those intel plugins will do me any good.

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                It works fine since i use AMD too

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Good, I personally don't care about "single-core" performance.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >adobe is claiming to own everything made by its users and M$ is taking pictures of your desktop

      FOSS or nothing

  11. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Why would anyone use Adobe products when there are like 5 great alternatives for each program. Plus they are free or like only one time fee of $20 like Procreate is.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      If you're a freelancer, sure, but if you work in an office or on a team you'll use what everyone else uses because it's convenient. Everyone uses Adobe because everyone else uses Adobe and it's taken a lot of bad decisions in a row for studios to start seriously considering moving away from them but it's happening.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Individuals can use other software. It's a problem with industry where companies still have to use it, like

      If you're a freelancer, sure, but if you work in an office or on a team you'll use what everyone else uses because it's convenient. Everyone uses Adobe because everyone else uses Adobe and it's taken a lot of bad decisions in a row for studios to start seriously considering moving away from them but it's happening.

      said.

      That said the whole shit with the AI is probably pissing people off at the corporate level, and even if they aren't mad at Adobe yet, there is cause for concern if they're uploading stuff to the cloud

  12. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Just get it for free lmao.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      https://filecr.com/windows/collection-2020-2021-2024/?id=063098140000
      Go nuts.

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Just get it for free lmao.

        Why even pirate it when free programs are now superior
        Use krita, use fire alpaca, use gimp even
        People using adobe products even pirated keeps adobe as a standard when it should have been universally abandoned

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Fair point, pirating Windows was how Windows got its market share to begin with.

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Which of those have an animation tool worth a damn? That's what I wanna know.

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            People are apparently using Clip Studio Paint to animate.

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Krita has it

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            I find Pencil 2D very easy to use

            • 4 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              I use that too, actually. Really good stuff if you just want something simple that works like traditional but digitally. However, I could really use something else that can do vectors too.

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Gimp is fricking awful.

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Your pepper will never be green.

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            The ancient fork that tried to resemble more like Photoshop was discontinued but revived by someone else to much less fanfare to the point that it's still not mentionedon Wikipedia.

            Good. Everyone who works at Adobe is a fricking snake. I don't know how their shit became the "industry standard" when there's such problems as:
            >programs all have completely different rules, layouts, and features despite being touted as a "creative suite"
            >incompatibility between programs where you cannot simply expect them to work together with each other
            >absolutely insane memory usage
            >an absolute avalanche of bugs and random things that make the programs crash
            >updates that arbitrarily change things like tool functionality and shortcuts
            >updates that make programs objectively worse
            The list goes on and on, there's no reason a subscription service that costs this much monthly and is used by everyone in the art industry should ever have this many problems. Frick every person in charge at Adobe, genuinely.

            basically a tldr of what I said, agreed

            >Everyone who works at Adobe is a fricking snake.
            Some employees are fed up

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Even hacked versions can get caught and shut off if you connect to the internet. Don't ask me how that shit happens or is even legal

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Firewall it. It's the basic of basics.

  13. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Based government for a change. Watching Adobe commit suicide in real time is wild though. What change of hands led to this?

  14. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    I still use a pirated Photoshop to draw and do stuff with because it’s easy to find brushes for it or implement things since it’s been around for a while, so we all collectively know more about it. Zoomers don’t share their secrets with the other art programs so I don’t feel like making the full switch. I’m aware Adobe are pricks though so I will gladly refuse to pay them shit.

  15. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    I Knew that Adobe's homosexualry would bit them hard in the ass very soon, but Federal Shitshow is a whole new level of ass bite.

  16. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    A loss for Adobe is a win for everyone else.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Good, I hate Animate's shitty pen tool.

  17. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Who Adobe?

  18. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Even the government is sick and tired of Adobe's bullshit subscription based model

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Maybe that will convince MAGIX to ditch the subscription model and keep only the perpetual license model.

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >inb4 MAGIX locks features behind via a pro version you can only sub to
        You cannot stop them from greed.

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Team V.R. and Team KHG most certainly did.

  19. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    It'll result in a lot more "professional"(read: non-indie) projects using Blender.

  20. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Everyone pirates that shit

  21. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    But. If we focus on animating, it's mainly toom boom and 3d programs. Adobe is used for concept art mostly, and that can be done with tons of alternative programs, lighter and only focused on illustration. Photoshop is a Swedish knife but too heavy at times, when you have apps like procreate, gimp or clip studio that flow much better.
    If you think about it, its an app for photographers that illustrators start using. No surprise they are ditching all the artists for people focused on general use.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      I personally find drawing on Photoshop to be a drag, which is why it's better for me to use programs tailored to art. (Not just image manipulation.)

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        The same. I left a bootleged phshp in my 8gram laptop to do fast corrections in cmyk ( the only fault of cs is that you have to reexport in cmyk). The lag in unvearable while cs works fine. And CS is a heavy program.

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >CS is a heavy program
          It's why I tend to use SAI, because it runs fine on potatoes.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      I meant Swiss knife.

      You'll need this script, since VEGAS doesn't let you make your own custom keyframes out-of-the-box.
      https://github.com/RatinFX/VegasProFlow

      I'll look into it, sometimes simpler is better.

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Happy to help! Enjoy using VEGAS 😉

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          But before I do, here are some tips to make your life significantly easier.
          >Disable Resample (Most Important)
          >Disable Quantize to Frames
          >Set the quick fade length for audio events to 1
          It may not seem like much, but you'll be able to edit more precise cuts and have renders that won't look like shit.

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            I forgot to mention that you should set the deinterlace method to "none." (By default, it's set to "blended frames", which looks like shit.)

            • 4 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              Thx, saving all these.

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                I've been using VEGAS for over a decade, so feel free to ask if you need help.

  22. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    I still like using CS6, especially for Flash.

  23. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    I have no idea why people take adobe's shit for so long. Their hatred of Linux aside, their entire structure is such a crock of bullshit and are the worst aspects of the software world. I can't believe people would bend over backwards for them just for Photoshop (Admittedly very good but not worth this shit), flash (RIP), acrobat (lmao) and dogshit like After Effects (Literally why?)

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      you're forgetting substance painter for /3/, which if you're unaware, is the only program of its kind for video games, literally every non-indieshit video game you've played will have used it in its pipeline.
      i believe premiere pro and adobe illustrator are similarly indispensible in their respective industries.

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        oh, and i forget the name, but that adobe program that you can design books on.

  24. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    I wish I'd spent more time pursuing animation than my year's stint in high school, and I was a lazy little moron about saving my projects so whatever I did have saved on my student drive has been loooong gone by now. Tried Animate some years ago and even as someone with no skill but at least leftover familiarity with the Flash UI it's such hot fricking dogshit; I can't believe its shitty pen can exist in the same "creative suite" as the one in Photoshop? Seemed impossible to draw anything decent in the afternoon I spent trying it and I know I didn't have much difficulty with CS3 over a decade ago w/ a mouse.

    I'm never gonna get back into animation anyway but it's a shame I'll never get to use Flash's timeline again without pirating CS3-5. Tried Toon Boom too and it just wasn't the same without that fricking timeline.

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